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tommy
02-18-2011, 06:36 PM
Male player nominees are:

Mo Cheeks, Jamaal Wilkes, Chris Mullin, Ralph Sampson, and Dennis Rodman.

To me, Mo Cheeks and Dennis Rodman have to get in. And I'd put Ralph in too. Here's my analysis of these guys.

Mo Cheeks: Although he always seemed like a complementary player, in the shadows of outsized figures like Dr. J, Moses, and Barkley, he was a 4 time All-Star, went to the Finals three times and won it once. Perhaps more importantly, he is #3 all-time in steals and #8 all-time in assists. At the time of his retirement, he was actually #1 in steals and #5 in assists, all-time. That's a Hall of Famer in my book.

Chris Mullin: tough call. 3 time All-American at St. John's, and won the Wooden Award as a senior. 5-time All-Star and won a Gold Medal with the Dream Team. He had a great five-year run with Hardaway and Richmond and Don Nelson where he averaged 25 a game, but never was a first team All-Pro, never won a scoring title, never sniffed an NBA championship, isn't close to the top of any statistical categories, and his run of excellence was short -- hindered by alcohol problems early and injuries late. I'd have to say no to Mullin.

Ralph Sampson: It's a good thing it's not the NBA Hall of Fame, it's the Basketball Hall of Fame. So that means college counts. He was a 3-time Player of the Year -- not just 3-time All-American -- 3-time Player of the Year. Hard to leave him out of any discussion of the greatest college basketball players of all-time. In the pros, he was Rookie of the Year and a four-time all-star before injuries robbed him of what would have been the bulk of a very productive career. In his first three years, he averaged 21 ppg and 11 boards. Then the knees gave. I'd put him in despite the shortness of his pro career.

Jamaal Wilkes: Two-time All-American and won 2 NCAA titles at UCLA. As a pro, he was Rookie of the Year, a 3-time All-Star and played on four NBA championship teams. Averaged 17.7 ppg. To me, he was a very good but not great player, a winner, but not a Hall of Famer.

Rodman: NBA All-Defensive First Team seven times and NBA Defensive Player of the Year twice. He also led the NBA in rebounds per game for a record seven consecutive years and won five NBA championships. He ended up averaging over 13 boards per game for his career, a number reduced by some pedestrian numbers his first few years. In a seven year stretch from 1992-1998, he averaged over 15 rebounds per game six times. In the other year, it was 14.9. Of the eight greatest rebounding seasons in the last 35 years, five of them were recorded by Rodman. Forget about the tattoos, the hair, the pink dresses, lipstick, and makeup. Based on his on the court performance, he's gotta be a Hall of Famer.

What do you guys think?

BD80
02-18-2011, 06:45 PM
OK, right now he is just a finalist, but way back when shorts were aptly named, we were fortunate to regularly have Hank Nichols ref Duke games. We also had seats in the first row (no press row). Hank was very slyly interactive with us fans. And a damn good ref.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6136451

Reilly
02-18-2011, 09:58 PM
I believe Hank's son went to Duke. Also, seem to recall that Roanoke, VA sort of became the place for refs to live, and Hank lived there ... and recently saw where ref Duke Edsall, brother of new Maryland football coach Randy, also lives in Roanoke.

mapei
02-18-2011, 10:14 PM
Rodman is the only one I feel strongly should get in. Ralph . . . even in college, his teams always underperformed in the postseason. He does have the NPOYs to his credit.

To be perfectly honest, I don't remember Cheeks, other than the name. Maybe because I don't follow the NBA that closely. Mullin, I remember well - excellent college player but not an all-time great, decent but not great pro; I guess if the basketball HOF is the kind that's really generous, maybe he and Ralph get in. If it's tougher, I don't think so on either.

SupaDave
02-18-2011, 10:31 PM
Rodman is the only one I feel strongly should get in. Ralph . . . even in college, his teams always underperformed in the postseason. He does have the NPOYs to his credit.

To be perfectly honest, I don't remember Cheeks, other than the name. Maybe because I don't follow the NBA that closely. Mullin, I remember well - excellent college player but not an all-time great, decent but not great pro; I guess if the basketball HOF is the kind that's really generous, maybe he and Ralph get in. If it's tougher, I don't think so on either.

Mullin in his days with TMC was bananas. Do NOT leave the guy open on the wing. Seriously. He put up crazy points. He's what the NBA is all about. He's got a great story as well. He should be in...


For five consecutive seasons, from 1988 until 1993, Mullin scored an average of 25 or more points and five rebounds. He became the only Warrior player besides Wilt Chamberlain ever to have five consecutive 25-ppg seasons. Additionally, the Warriors made five straight playoff appearances. Mullin, Richmond, and 1989 first-round draftee Tim Hardaway formed the trio "Run TMC" that were the focal stars of this playoff run. A five-time All-Star, Mullin also won Olympic gold twice—as a member of the 1984 amateur team, and for the 1992 Dream Team.

BobbyFan
02-18-2011, 10:51 PM
I wouldn't put any of them in based on their pro careers.

verga
02-18-2011, 11:28 PM
Chris Mullins a big yes, might have been the greatest shooter of all time

Ralph Sampson a big big yes, he was unguardable in college, he gets blamed because his teams lost in college to carolina but he didn't have Sam Perkins and James Worthy to play with him. I believe Othell Wilson was the only Cavalier to play pro ball, even though Jeff Lamb was also a good player who played with Ralph.

Dennis Rodman a very definite yes, strange but a great rebounder. The only knock on him, to me, was the fact he couldn't shoot and if anyone other than Chuck Daly had been his coach he would have been out of the league early in his career.

Mo Cheek no, no, a good point guard who played with Dr. J and Moses Malone, he was a very good player but i don't think he is hall of fame material. jmo.

tommy
02-19-2011, 02:21 AM
Ralph . . . even in college, his teams always underperformed in the postseason.

In Ralph's freshman year, Virginia only qualified for the NIT. They won it.
Sophomore year they went to the Final Four.
Jr year they were upset in the Sweet 16.
Sr year they lost in the Elite 8 by one to the Valvano team of destiny.

Is that so bad?


Ralph Sampson a big big yes, he was unguardable in college, he gets blamed because his teams lost in college to carolina but he didn't have Sam Perkins and James Worthy to play with him. I believe Othell Wilson was the only Cavalier to play pro ball, even though Jeff Lamb was also a good player who played with Ralph.

And they actually held their own with UNC. During Ralph's time, they split the eight regular season games four and four. UNC did win the two postseason games, one an ACC Final and the other a Final Four game. But it's not like UVA wasn't competitive with UNC -- very competitive actually -- in that era.

HK Dukie
02-19-2011, 04:11 AM
Reggie Miller was a snub. I would put him in over all the current nominees.

wsb3
02-19-2011, 05:37 AM
Chris Mullins a big yes, might have been the greatest shooter of all time

Ralph Sampson a big big yes, he was unguardable in college, he gets blamed because his teams lost in college to carolina but he didn't have Sam Perkins and James Worthy to play with him. I believe Othell Wilson was the only Cavalier to play pro ball, even though Jeff Lamb was also a good player who played with Ralph.

Dennis Rodman a very definite yes, strange but a great rebounder. The only knock on him, to me, was the fact he couldn't shoot and if anyone other than Chuck Daly had been his coach he would have been out of the league early in his career.



Mo Cheek no, no, a good point guard who played with Dr. J and Moses Malone, he was a very good player but i don't think he is hall of fame material. jmo.

Maybe it is because I never liked Ralph Sampson but I could not get past that he never even won an ACC championship. He did play with Jeff Lamp for part of his career who was an outstanding college player. And I believe the first year he was gone from UVA that they went to the final four without him. Kind of ironic.

SupaDave
02-19-2011, 08:37 AM
Maybe it is because I never liked Ralph Sampson but I could not get past that he never even won an ACC championship. He did play with Jeff Lamp for part of his career who was an outstanding college player. And I believe the first year he was gone from UVA that they went to the final four without him. Kind of ironic.

Duke, UNC, AND NC State were all QUITE relevant during his reign at UVA. A tough road for anyone with all that talent.

SupaDave
02-19-2011, 08:38 AM
I wouldn't put any of them in based on their pro careers.

Ok - for starters - why NOT Dennis Rodman?

gw67
02-19-2011, 08:51 AM
Sampson - YES!! Three-time NPOY in college, enough said.

Cheeks - No Nice player but not Hall of Fame material. On second thought, wasn't he the guy who helped that young girl sing the Star Spangled Banner when she was having trouble. Maybe not a HOF player but definitely a HOF person.

Mullen- No Good player but not HOF

Rodman - One of the best complimentary players of all time but not HOF player.

gw67

sagegrouse
02-19-2011, 09:07 AM
Whooo boy! Tough choices.

Mullin is the ONLY NBA player from the Dream Team NOT to be in the Hall of Fame. His stats are impressive -- nearly 18,000 points and averaging well over 20 per game for six years. Borderline on the basis of the numbers. But I gotta vote for him because then our man Laettner is the only Dream Teamer not in the Hall.

Sampson is the stuff of legend, with or without the 'p.' But he was only healthy three years in the NBA, and while he typically played more than 30 mpg, he was typically not available for duty for his last six years in the league. Can't go for big Ralph, although I remember when he led the Rockets to the NBA finals in his second season, and I thought he was sure-fire hall-of-famer.

Rodman. A one trick pony, averaging 15 or more rebounds per game in seven seasons. Has more baggage than any other three players added together. I'm not voting for this guy. Why? Because it's my vote, and I'm not writing the name 'Dennis Rodman' on my ballot.

sagegrouse

SupaDave
02-19-2011, 09:12 AM
Rodman - One of the best complimentary players of all time but not HOF player.

gw67

This guy isn't a HOF'er? What more must one do? There are many with lessor stats that are in the Hall.

5× NBA Champion (1989, 1990, 1996, 1997, 1998)
2× NBA All-Star (1990, 1992)
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1990–1991)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1992, 1995)
7× All-Defensive First Team (1989–1993, 1995–1996)
All-Defensive Second Team (1994)
7× NBA rebounding champion (1992–1998)

NBA Finals with three different teams is no coincidence. A trained specialist that allowed others on the court to focus on the things that they were needed for. He was the BEST at what he did. There is no one in the NBA now doing what he did. Ron Artest is about the closest thing to Rodman and even with his scoring he pales in comparison. Rodman could check EVERY player on the court.

NBA rebounding champions. There's only one real forward on this list - guess who it is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_rebound_champion

NSDukeFan
02-19-2011, 10:17 AM
This guy isn't a HOF'er? What more must one do? There are many with lessor stats that are in the Hall.
I can't imagine there would be anyone in the Hall with fewer points scored.


5× NBA Champion (1989, 1990, 1996, 1997, 1998)
2× NBA All-Star (1990, 1992)
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1990–1991)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1992, 1995)
7× All-Defensive First Team (1989–1993, 1995–1996)
All-Defensive Second Team (1994)
7× NBA rebounding champion (1992–1998)

NBA Finals with three different teams is no coincidence. A trained specialist that allowed others on the court to focus on the things that they were needed for. He was the BEST at what he did. There is no one in the NBA now doing what he did. Ron Artest is about the closest thing to Rodman and even with his scoring he pales in comparison. Rodman could check EVERY player on the court.

NBA rebounding champions. There's only one real forward on this list - guess who it is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_rebound_champion

Elvin Hayes, Kevin Garnett, Michael Cage, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber?
I actually don't know about a lot of these candidates. I can't remember how exclusive the hall is as compared to baseball and football. I would say that none of the candidates compares with the last few slam dunk candidates Jordan, Stockton, Malone, Robinson. If college counts, Sampson certainly has to be considered.

Rodman is a very interesting case, almost like closers in baseball. As Supa has pointed out, he is one of the best defensive players and probably the best rebounder of the last 30 years. Does his lack of scoring keep him out? Should some of the offensive greats be reconsidered if they weren't great on the defensive end? I don't know the answers, but find the questions and discussions interesting. If they don't get in, should they go in the hall of honour?

Olympic Fan
02-19-2011, 11:33 AM
In Ralph's freshman year, Virginia only qualified for the NIT. They won it.
Sophomore year they went to the Final Four.
Jr year they were upset in the Sweet 16.
Sr year they lost in the Elite 8 by one to the Valvano team of destiny.

Is that so bad?


On of my best basketball memories is sitting in a bar in Syracuse New York, watching N.C. State play Virginia in the 1983 West Regional finals. I was surrounded by Big East fans, in awe of Sampson ... I can fuzzily remember (okay, I had imbibed a few) the game getting to crunch time and I bet the guys around me that Sampson would disappear down the stretch.

And disappear he did -- as he always did. I thought his career was summed up by his final moments as a college player. Virginia is down 63-62 with the ball and they can't find Sampson, who was hiding behind the scorer's table (okay, that's an exaggeration, but they couldn't get the ball to their 7-4 center ... he barely touched it in the game's final five minutes). Tim Merrifield finally launches a shot that clanks off the rim as the buzzer sounds ... and Sampson comes swooping out of his hiding place grab the rebound and fire a beautiful fallaway 15-footer that touches nothing but net.

To me, that sums up his career.

Yeah, he was great -- when nothing was on the line. Wow, he led Virginia to the NIT and a bunch of regular season wins (although Lamp or Raker or Othell Wilson almost always hit the clutch shots). He never won an ACC championship ... yeah, they got to the Final Four in his sophomore year, where they were blitzed by Al Wood and UNC. They choked in the NCAAs in 1982 and 1983 ... then the team he couldn't get to the Final Four, made it to the Final Four the next year with freshman Olden Polynice in the middle.

And THAT's the good part of his career.

As a pro, he was the first draft pick of the team with the worst record in the NBA. They finished last again in his rookie season. With that No. 1 draft pick, they drafted Akeem Olajuwon and suddenly they were a playoff team.

I'm sorry, but Sampson ranks as one of the great underachievers of all time. He's kind of like Wilt Chamberlain on steroids -- a prodigious talent who couldn't figure out how to make his teams win.

Not a Hall of Famer in my book -- not close.

Not much of a Rodman fan either -- yeah, he rode Jordan's coattails to a lot of titles, but he was a two-time all-star. Two times? C'mon -- he was a very good supporting player, but we always overvalue supporting players on great teams.

wsb3
02-19-2011, 06:32 PM
Duke, UNC, AND NC State were all QUITE relevant during his reign at UVA. A tough road for anyone with all that talent.

Not sure i get the point about relevant. Unfortunately Duke was not very relevant during Ralph's last 3 years.

tommy
02-19-2011, 08:00 PM
Rodman. A one trick pony, averaging 15 or more rebounds per game in seven seasons..

How so? He was first team all-defense seven times. Rebounding and defense are very separate and distinct skill sets, wouldn't you agree?

And if Rodman is a "one trick pony" couldn't the same be said of Chris Mullin (or Reggie Miller, coming next year)? Mullin was a great shooter. What else did he do? Rebound? No. Score in traffic? No. Distribute? No. Defend? Heck, no. And he certainly didn't win like Rodman did, being a vital contributor to three different franchises' championship teams.

dball
02-19-2011, 08:33 PM
Not much of a Rodman fan either -- yeah, he rode Jordan's coattails to a lot of titles, but he was a two-time all-star. Two times? C'mon -- he was a very good supporting player, but we always overvalue supporting players on great teams.

To be fair Rodman had a couple of rings before Jordan had any, though I agree he doesn't quite make HOF material. Sort of like Dave Kingman in baseball. Impressive in one area but comes up short in other ways.

I'd put big Ralph in though.

gw67
02-19-2011, 08:44 PM
Not sure i get the point about relevant. Unfortunately Duke was not very relevant during Ralph's last 3 years.

My best friend at the time was a second generation Virginia alum and I saw a bunch of basketball games at U Hall in the late 70's, 80's and early 90"s, including seeing the Simpson, Lamp, Robinson, Raker, Wilson team play several times. I understand Olympic Fan's perspective but Ralph had players hanging all over him during his career and was an outstanding college player. One team and player that gave Ralph some trouble was Maryland and Buck Williams. Buck gave up 7-8 inches but he played Ralph really tough. I enjoyed watching their battles.

gw67

turnandburn55
02-19-2011, 10:12 PM
And he certainly didn't win like Rodman did, being a vital contributor to three different franchises' championship teams.

Sorry, maybe I'm finally losing it, but which was the third?

Count me in the camp that has him on the outside looking in. Can anyone name a player who was never "the man" (or, at the very least, option 1A) at any point in his career and made the HOF?

dball
02-20-2011, 12:03 AM
Sorry, maybe I'm finally losing it, but which was the third?

Count me in the camp that has him on the outside looking in. Can anyone name a player who was never "the man" (or, at the very least, option 1A) at any point in his career and made the HOF?

One richly deserving member of the HOF that may not meet the criteria you state would be John Havlicek. Jerry Lucas was the primary option on his college team and he played with a number of Celtic legends. Havlicek was probably the original "6th man". At least I don't recall the term being widely used before him.

He could score and he played great defense. Won a national title at OSU and 8 NBA titles. He was also voted one of the NBA's 50 best. But I'm not sure he was ever the number 1 guy on his team.

darthur
02-20-2011, 01:45 AM
NBA Finals with three different teams is no coincidence. A trained specialist that allowed others on the court to focus on the things that they were needed for. He was the BEST at what he did. There is no one in the NBA now doing what he did. Ron Artest is about the closest thing to Rodman and even with his scoring he pales in comparison. Rodman could check EVERY player on the court.

NBA rebounding champions. There's only one real forward on this list - guess who it is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_rebound_champion

There's nobody in the NBA today who's the same as Rodman, but for the first time in years, there IS a young up-and-comer who might be able to compete with him in rebounding. And he is a legit forward too.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3449/kevin-love

gw67
02-20-2011, 09:13 AM
One richly deserving member of the HOF that may not meet the criteria you state would be John Havlicek. Jerry Lucas was the primary option on his college team and he played with a number of Celtic legends. Havlicek was probably the original "6th man". At least I don't recall the term being widely used before him.

He could score and he played great defense. Won a national title at OSU and 8 NBA titles. He was also voted one of the NBA's 50 best. But I'm not sure he was ever the number 1 guy on his team.

Hondo was indeed a great player. In general, what you say is true but he became the man during his later years with the Celtics and averaged over 20 ppg for awhile. My memory, particularly for pro basketball is fuzzy but I think that Red Auerbach designated Frank Ramsay as his sixth man well before before Havlicek arrived on the scene. Like Hondo, Ramsay was instant offense and he also played second fiddle to Cliff Hagan at Kentucky.

gw67

Olympic Fan
02-20-2011, 11:24 AM
One richly deserving member of the HOF that may not meet the criteria you state would be John Havlicek. Jerry Lucas was the primary option on his college team and he played with a number of Celtic legends. Havlicek was probably the original "6th man". At least I don't recall the term being widely used before him.

He could score and he played great defense. Won a national title at OSU and 8 NBA titles. He was also voted one of the NBA's 50 best. But I'm not sure he was ever the number 1 guy on his team.

You're kidding right?

Indeed, Havlicek was the No. 2 man (to Lucas) on a great Ohio State team. He was a two-time second-team A-A on a team that played in three straight NCAA title games (winning one, losing the other two).

And what were Rodman's college accomplishments?

In the pros, Havlicek did indeed start as a sixth man, although he was an instant star, averaging 14.3 points as a rookie. He was the team's No. 4 option that year.

The next year he led the team in scoring. He would lead those championship teams in scoring eight times in the next 11 years -- and finish second on the team in the other three years.

He WAS the man --sharing the Celtics leadership role with Russell.

Auerback called him the greatest sixth man of all time (Frank Ramsey was, in fact, the original sixth man), but when Russell became coach, Havlicek became a starter, leading the team in scoring in Russell's last two championship years. When Russell retired, Havlicek was CLEARLY the man on another generation of championship teams (when he was supported by Jo Jo White and Dave Cowens).

The guy made the all-star team 13 times and was first first-team All-NBA four times ... does that sound like a secondary player on his team? He was second-team All-NBA seven times -- that means that for 11 seasons he was rated one of the top 10 players in the NBA. And, oh yes, he was an eight time All-Defensive team member.

Rodman's credentials (3 all-star games) don't compare. He was closer to the equivilent of Satch Sanders or Bailey Howell on those Celtic teams than to Havlicek.

BobbyFan
02-20-2011, 11:53 PM
Ok - for starters - why NOT Dennis Rodman?

Some of this has since been explained in other posts, but the guy made two All-Star games and never made 1st or 2nd team All-NBA. He was never a top 10 player in the league.

At some point in his career, a HOFer has to have been a great player - not just great at one or two facets, but a great overall player. What about Rodman's offense, particularly in his years with Chicago? He was horrendous on that end. The Bulls were essentially playing 4 on 5 when they had the ball. That absolutely has to be considered, along with other factors that I feel clearly place him on the outside looking in.

dball
02-21-2011, 12:40 AM
You're kidding right?

Indeed, Havlicek was the No. 2 man (to Lucas) on a great Ohio State team. He was a two-time second-team A-A on a team that played in three straight NCAA title games (winning one, losing the other two).



You seem to be comparing Havlicek to Rodman. I already said earlier that I don't think Rodman qualifies and that Havlicek is richly deserving

The statement was "who is in that was never the number one option". Are you seriously saying that anyone on a Bill Russell team was number one other than Bill? You're kidding, right?

NashvilleDevil
02-21-2011, 08:20 AM
You seem to be comparing Havlicek to Rodman. I already said earlier that I don't think Rodman qualifies and that Havlicek is richly deserving

The statement was "who is in that was never the number one option". Are you seriously saying that anyone on a Bill Russell team was number one other than Bill? You're kidding, right?

I think OF answers the question here:

"He WAS the man --sharing the Celtics leadership role with Russell.

Auerback called him the greatest sixth man of all time (Frank Ramsey was, in fact, the original sixth man), but when Russell became coach, Havlicek became a starter, leading the team in scoring in Russell's last two championship years. When Russell retired, Havlicek was CLEARLY the man on another generation of championship teams (when he was supported by Jo Jo White and Dave Cowens).

The guy made the all-star team 13 times and was first first-team All-NBA four times ... does that sound like a secondary player on his team? He was second-team All-NBA seven times -- that means that for 11 seasons he was rated one of the top 10 players in the NBA. And, oh yes, he was an eight time All-Defensive team member."

brianl
02-21-2011, 12:50 PM
In Ralph's freshman year, Virginia only qualified for the NIT. They won it.
Sophomore year they went to the Final Four.
Jr year they were upset in the Sweet 16.
Sr year they lost in the Elite 8 by one to the Valvano team of destiny.

Is that so bad?



And they actually held their own with UNC. During Ralph's time, they split the eight regular season games four and four. UNC did win the two postseason games, one an ACC Final and the other a Final Four game. But it's not like UVA wasn't competitive with UNC -- very competitive actually -- in that era.

If I remember right, wasn't this the era of the 4 corners offense that Dean had UNC working to near perfection?

wsb3
02-22-2011, 06:11 AM
If I remember right, wasn't this the era of the 4 corners offense that Dean had UNC working to near perfection?

Dean's 4 corners ran to perfection during the Phil Ford years which was over before Ralph. It was used after that but in my mind it was never the same. I don't think I ever respected a UNC player more than I did Phil Ford. He was a great college point guard.

SupaDave
02-22-2011, 07:47 AM
Some of this has since been explained in other posts, but the guy made two All-Star games and never made 1st or 2nd team All-NBA. He was never a top 10 player in the league.

At some point in his career, a HOFer has to have been a great player - not just great at one or two facets, but a great overall player. What about Rodman's offense, particularly in his years with Chicago? He was horrendous on that end. The Bulls were essentially playing 4 on 5 when they had the ball. That absolutely has to be considered, along with other factors that I feel clearly place him on the outside looking in.

Even better b/c he was never on a team that needed him to score. All he did was make teams better and lock down their leading scorer(s). And when Jordan had the ball back then it was ONE on FIVE quite often - and Rodman got the rebound and kicked it right back out. If the league's best rebounder of all time doesn't get HOF respect then the Hall is a bit jaded. For Rodman, it's not just about scoring - he has special stats - ones that show that scoring was not his purpose in the game plan. The longevity of his prowess alone says something about the artistry devoted to it.

Bill Walton, while in the Hall is really only in there for three good years out of his career (the last being years later). The rest hampered by injury - I'd have to say Rodman is just as deserving as Bill.

wsb3
02-22-2011, 07:53 AM
Bill Walton, while in the Hall is really only in there for three good years out of his career (the last being years later). The rest hampered by injury - I'd have to say Rodman is just as deserving as Bill.[/QUOTE]

It is true that Walton's NBA carreer was hampered with injury but since college is also considered let's not forget Bill Walton was one of the greatest college players ever.

SupaDave
02-22-2011, 07:57 AM
Bill Walton, while in the Hall is really only in there for three good years out of his career (the last being years later). The rest hampered by injury - I'd have to say Rodman is just as deserving as Bill.

It is true that Walton's NBA carreer was hampered with injury but since college is also considered let's not forget Bill Walton was one of the greatest college players ever.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Rodman's college career is non-existent but I'd like to think that he made up for lost time just due to his sheer championship total. I'd gamble that he's the NBA Finals rebounding champ with ease.

gw67
02-22-2011, 07:58 AM
Supadave,

Your kidding about Walton correct? Bill was 3-time All American and 3-time college POY, he led the Bruins to two national championships, he was an NBA MVP and led his team to two titles. Hey, I understand that you like Rodman and think that he is HOF material. I disagree and I suspect that the voters will agree with me but who knows.

gw67

tommy
04-04-2011, 01:42 PM
Rodman and Mullin are in. Sampson, Cheeks and Wilkes are not, at least for this year.
ESPN story here. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6289323http://)

SupaDave
04-04-2011, 01:51 PM
Rodman and Mullin are in. Sampson, Cheeks and Wilkes are not, at least for this year.
ESPN story here. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6289323http://)

Vindication is sweet!!!! Lol! I argued hard for Rodman. Maybe the Hall heard my plea.

However, I'm somewhat shocked by Sampson. He might be the only Hall eligible bball player with his own shoe that's not included in the Hall of Fame.

BobbyFan
04-04-2011, 06:20 PM
Even better b/c he was never on a team that needed him to score. All he did was make teams better and lock down their leading scorer(s). And when Jordan had the ball back then it was ONE on FIVE quite often - and Rodman got the rebound and kicked it right back out. If the league's best rebounder of all time doesn't get HOF respect then the Hall is a bit jaded. For Rodman, it's not just about scoring - he has special stats - ones that show that scoring was not his purpose in the game plan. The longevity of his prowess alone says something about the artistry devoted to it.

The claim about being the league's best rebounder is irrelevant if you fail to look at him as a complete basketball player. As I previously mentioned, he was never a top 10 player in the league, and I just don't understand how such a player can be considered HOF caliber.

The fact that Rodman's scoring wasn't needed as much because Jordan was on his team doesn't excuse the fact that his man was allowed to be a roaming defender and keep an eye on Jordan/Pippen/Kukoc. That absolutely matters. That's why the Bulls were much more of a threat to score in the half court when they had Horace Grant manning the PF slot. It's one thing to not score, because you can contribute to an offense by creating, passing, etc...but Rodman did none of that with the Bulls and at times looked downright disinterested until a shot went up.

J4Kop99
04-04-2011, 06:34 PM
Thank you for finally bringing in Tex Winter. He deserves it.

hurleyfor3
04-04-2011, 06:36 PM
However, I'm somewhat shocked by Sampson. He might be the only Hall eligible bball player with his own shoe that's not included in the Hall of Fame.

Negative points for sucker-punching Jerry Sichting.