Billy Packer Still Upset About Everything

[Atlanta Duke]

USA Today has an interview in which the old curmedgeon vents about the broadcast format for this year's NCAA tournament, his ex-employer, and college basketball in general

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/hiestand-tv/2011-02-15-ncaa-tournament-billy-packer_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

If anyone has forgotten what a grouch Packer became this article will remind you

[camion]

Packer and Vitale

Matter and anti-matter

[mkline09]

USA Today has an interview in which the old curmedgeon vents about the broadcast format for this year's NCAA tournament, his ex-employer, and college basketball in general

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/hiestand-tv/2011-02-15-ncaa-tournament-billy-packer_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

If anyone has forgotten what a grouch Packer became this article will remind you

Not surprising. Packer was always upset at the world. It was a great day when he retired from broadcasting. He just oozes negativity and his holier-than-thou, know-everything attitude just irks me.

He never helped with the false perception that Duke gets all the calls especially after the 2001 title game.

[Ping Lin]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Peacewood/cloud.jpg

[BD80]

USA Today has an interview in which the old curmedgeon vents about the broadcast format for this year's NCAA tournament, his ex-employer, and college basketball in general

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/hiestand-tv/2011-02-15-ncaa-tournament-billy-packer_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

If anyone has forgotten what a grouch Packer became this article will remind you

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dylan tells me its OK when I'm grumpy.

[pfrduke]

I don't know. I think the sincerity in his concern for the poor viewers of truTV who will be robbed of hours of their courtroom/cops&robbers drama was touching and heartfelt. :rolleyes:

[ncexnyc]

Would anyone who took a swipe at Billy care to make a more specific comment mentioning what they didn't like about what he said in the article?

[WiJoe]

Would anyone who took a swipe at Billy care to make a more specific comment mentioning what they didn't like about what he said in the article?

Humongous can of worms about to be opened.

:rolleyes:

[ncexnyc]

Humongous can of worms about to be opened.

:rolleyes:
Not a problem. No one really commented on Packer's views stated in the article. Instead they took it as an opportunity to take a swipe at the guy.

[mkline09]

Would anyone who took a swipe at Billy care to make a more specific comment mentioning what they didn't like about what he said in the article?

I for one just don't care for his general malaise about how the game has "regressed in the past 10 years" and how he basically calls the regional games boring. His negativity just is intollerable to me. It was that way when he called the games and it remains the case today.

[UrinalCake]

Wasn't he also the guy who ignored a female student who was monitoring the media entrance door at Cameron, telling her to "go and work at a women's game" or something to that effect?

[rthomas]

...his general malaise about how the game has "regressed in the past 10 years" ...

Maybe he was just thinking about the ACC.

[Matches]

Yeah, he's a curmudgeon. He's also right about a lot of what he said, though. TruTV is a strange place to put college basketball games. The move appears to have been made so that every game will be available in its entirety, but Packer is correct in pointing out that having every minute of every game on is really only serving a very small percentage of people. As a practical matter most people who wanted to see their team play could already do so.

He's right about the expansion of the field to 68 teams, too. The tourney has added three mediocre teams to the field, and those "first four" games are not going to be very good. The only way I'd watch one of them is if Duke was involved.

[allenmurray]

Wasn't he also the guy who ignored a female student who was monitoring the media entrance door at Cameron, telling her to "go and work at a women's game" or something to that effect?

It was something like that, though my memory (failing though it may be) is that when she asked for his press credentials before letting him in he became verbally abusive, upset that she did not "know who he was".

[OldPhiKap]

Packer and Vitale

Matter and anti-matter

I'll fund the super collider.

[Atlanta Duke]

Would anyone who took a swipe at Billy care to make a more specific comment mentioning what they didn't like about what he said in the article?
OK

His comment about it being better if ESPN had the tournamnt because it has announcers doing college games all season - because viewing any sporting event is impossible without great color commentary and any college game is so much better when you have Billy or Dick Vitale at the mike

His comment that ESPN has better NCAA promotion and Packer not being in a promo for CBS for 25 years - consider the possibility CBS did not regard Packer to be the face of college basketball - if he thought CBS was doing such a rotten job of promotion (I disagree) he should not have cashed their checks for 28 years until he was fired

Packer saying he likes watching truTV, people who watch it aren't going to be happy they're missing their shows and if truTV viewers liked basketball, they'd already be watching ESPN- Aside from being a laughable "get off my lawn" quote, that is as if the tournamntment should never have been on CBS since viewers would be upset their afternoon soaps were pre-empted the first week of the tournament and anyone who likes basketball already was watching ESPN rather than CBS non-sports programming

Viewers missing the old system of being switched to the hottest action - now all 4 games will be available in their entirety on 4 separate channels and if you want to watch your favorite team in a wire to wire blowout you can do that or you can switch to another game rather than be at the mercy of the control booth - maybe Billy can next claim there is no substitute to listening to a game on radio where the broadcaster paints a verbal word picture that the listener can imagine and once the game started to be broadcast on TV the magic was gone

Saying it's all about money and political correctness - political correctness? And it has always been about the money - expanding to 64 was not a decision based upon divine guidance - if it was all about the money the tournament would have added more than 4 teams

Saying the game has regressed incredibly in the last 10 years, at all levels and that's why he couldn't do it anymore - then he should have "quit" years before he left in 2008 (7 years into his incredible regression which really took off when high schoolers started going direct to the pros in the mid-1990s) - consider the possibility CBS told him it was time to say goodbye and it had nothing to do with Packer deciding it was immoral to continue to be a CBS broadcaster. That is not telling hard truths -that is the bitter spinning of someone who got canned.

[94duke]

Would anyone who took a swipe at Billy care to make a more specific comment mentioning what they didn't like about what he said in the article?


And viewers, warns Packer, will miss the old system of being switched to the hottest action.

I disagree most about this (above quote). I HATE the live look-in. I want to choose which game I want to see in its entirety. If they (CBS/network) want to tell me that a close game is on another channel, that's fine. I may or may not switch to it. But if I'm watching a 9 point game at the 12:00 mark involving an ACC team, let me decide if I want to switch games.

[OldPhiKap]

OK



Thanks, you saved me the time AD. 100% right on.

Billy, my television came with a remote. You may want to pick up a universal one at Best Buy if yours is missing.

And yeah, Billy quit because the game wasn't as good as it was ten years ago. Boo hoo hoo. Cry me a river.

I hope someone puts me down before I get that grumpy. Sheesh.


P.S. Len Elmore's article should be following soon, no doubt.

[PADukeMom]

I'll just say what I always said when Billy Packer would be announcing one of our games..."Go To Hell Billy Packer Go To Hell! (am I allowed to say Hell?)

[OldPhiKap]

"Go To Hell Billy Packer Go To Hell! (am I allowed to say Hell?)

If that's wrong, I don't want to be right.

[jv001]

I'll just say what I always said when Billy Packer would be announcing one of our games..."Go To Hell Billy Packer Go To Hell! (am I allowed to say Hell?)

my words, but close. One of the two people on this earth that should never be given a microphone. And the other is not Dickie babie. The other one is Len Elmore. Thank God for the mute button. Go Duke!

[DallasDevil]

Yeah, he's a curmudgeon. He's also right about a lot of what he said, though. TruTV is a strange place to put college basketball games. The move appears to have been made so that every game will be available in its entirety, but Packer is correct in pointing out that having every minute of every game on is really only serving a very small percentage of people. As a practical matter most people who wanted to see their team play could already do so.

He's right about the expansion of the field to 68 teams, too. The tourney has added three mediocre teams to the field, and those "first four" games are not going to be very good. The only way I'd watch one of them is if Duke was involved.

But wasn't TNT a strange place to put NBA games until they started doing it? I don't see why it matters what channel the game is on. I'm more than willing to watch a game on TruTV, and would do so if a game were on the History Channel or even Lifetime. And I think a lot of Duke fans scattered throughout the nation would disagree that most of them could watch Duke play early games under the old system. As a life long Duke fan who grew up over 2,000 miles away from campus, there were many first and second round games I was not able to watch because their game was not shown in my region. Even when Duke was the featured game in the first round, they would almost always cut away once the game became a blowout. Besides, I watch a lot more tournament games than just Duke's, and love the flexibility to pick all of the other games I watch. I don't think anyone is really enthusiastic about expanding to 68 other than those associated with teams 65-68, but I will be included in what I imagine will be a fair amount of people who will at least watch them.

[Vincetaylor]

Maybe he was just thinking about the ACC.

The game has absolutely regressed over the last ten years. How could it not have when all of the best players leave after their freshmen or sophomore years? Coach K and every other coach would totally agree.

[OldPhiKap]

The game has absolutely regressed over the last ten years. How could it not have when all of the best players leave after their freshmen or sophomore years? Coach K and every other coach would totally agree.

Of course, when he was calling games, Billy complained that the game was less pure than in had been in the past. So I'm not sure if he is complaining about the change in talent, or the move away from fundamentals (which would not be "regression"), or if he just got tired of it.

And while it is true that players leave earlier than they did back in the day, you could argue that this is because there are so many more great players now than existed back then. I do not agree that the talent level of today's teams are much different than it was twenty years ago -- it's just spread more evenly throughout more D-I schools.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

But wasn't TNT a strange place to put NBA games until they started doing it? I don't see why it matters what channel the game is on. I'm more than willing to watch a game on TruTV, and would do so if a game were on the History Channel or even Lifetime. And I think a lot of Duke fans scattered throughout the nation would disagree that most of them could watch Duke play early games under the old system. As a life long Duke fan who grew up over 2,000 miles away from campus, there were many first and second round games I was not able to watch because their game was not shown in my region. Even when Duke was the featured game in the first round, they would almost always cut away once the game became a blowout. Besides, I watch a lot more tournament games than just Duke's, and love the flexibility to pick all of the other games I watch. I don't think anyone is really enthusiastic about expanding to 68 other than those associated with teams 65-68, but I will be included in what I imagine will be a fair amount of people who will at least watch them.

I'd like to again raise the point that TruTV will be bad for sports bar viewers unless DirecTV adds the HD feed by next month.

[miramar]

The game has absolutely regressed over the last ten years. How could it not have when all of the best players leave after their freshmen or sophomore years? Coach K and every other coach would totally agree.

I don't think Billy's problem was the things he said, but rather the way he said them. I found him really obnoxious even when I agreed with him, which made me long for the days when he had Al McGuire lightening things up and Dick Enberg actually announcing the games.

Perhaps the best example was every time Duke would get knocked out the Final Four, he would invariably remind the viewers (with ill disguised contempt) that the Blue Devils held the record for most appearances without winning the championship. I think it got up to 9 IIRC, but thankfully that stopped in 1991.

[gw67]

Yeah, he's a curmudgeon. He's also right about a lot of what he said, though. TruTV is a strange place to put college basketball games. The move appears to have been made so that every game will be available in its entirety, but Packer is correct in pointing out that having every minute of every game on is really only serving a very small percentage of people. As a practical matter most people who wanted to see their team play could already do so.

He's right about the expansion of the field to 68 teams, too. The tourney has added three mediocre teams to the field, and those "first four" games are not going to be very good. The only way I'd watch one of them is if Duke was involved.

As an old timer on the board,I agree with the above post. I'll acknowledge that Billy has really turned negative in the last several years but I remember the Thacker-Packer days when the ACC games were done by two folks who loved college basketball and the ACC and were very good at what they were doing. I also consider the Enberg-Packer-McGuire announcing team to be about as good as it gets. Please spare me the NBA announcers, color and studio types. About the only thing I disagree with from the interview was his contention that they shouldn't do each game. The rest is pretty much right on, IMO. Gee, maybe I'm an old curmudgeon as well. What the heck, it's my favorite time of year and I'll turn off the sound if I don't like the folks who are announcing the game.

gw67

[PADukeMom]

my words, but close. One of the two people on this earth that should never be given a microphone. And the other is not Dickie babie. The other one is Len Elmore. Thank God for the mute button. Go Duke!

I thought I was the only person who did that. I can tolerate Dickie V because he does love his Dukies. Len Elmore...geeze...there were times when I was wondering if we were watching the same game. Mike Patrick can get annoying as well.
Hey if it's too hot in the confines of the Duke press box I'll gladly take your spot, do it for free & do a better job while at it.

[rasputin]

As an old timer on the board,I agree with the above post. I'll acknowledge that Billy has really turned negative in the last several years but I remember the Thacker-Packer days when the ACC games were done by two folks who loved college basketball and the ACC and were very good at what they were doing. I also consider the Enberg-Packer-McGuire announcing team to be about as good as it gets. Please spare me the NBA announcers, color and studio types. About the only thing I disagree with from the interview was his contention that they shouldn't do each game. The rest is pretty much right on, IMO. Gee, maybe I'm an old curmudgeon as well. What the heck, it's my favorite time of year and I'll turn off the sound if I don't like the folks who are announcing the game.

gw67

I've always seen the word "curmudgeon" as having a small quality of loveable-ness to is. Billy has just become a crab.

[Matches]

And I think a lot of Duke fans scattered throughout the nation would disagree that most of them could watch Duke play early games under the old system. As a life long Duke fan who grew up over 2,000 miles away from campus, there were many first and second round games I was not able to watch because their game was not shown in my region. Even when Duke was the featured game in the first round, they would almost always cut away once the game became a blowout.

I guess it comes down to whether CBS' (or whoever's) goal in broadcasting the tournament is to be comprehensive or to be entertaining. Some fans love the convenience of having every minute of every game available, but I'm not sure it really makes for better TV. I'm right there with you in wanting to watch the Duke games to the end, even if we're playing Arkansas-Pine Bluff and are ahead by 27 - but the last 12-15 minutes of those games isn't exactly wonderful TV.

The risk you run as a network is that if you devote too much airtime to that kind of material, you lose the casual fan who only tunes in for the NCAAT (and there are a LOT of people who don't follow college bball until the postseason). The die-hards like you or me have other options, whether it's the DirecTv March Madness package, a sports bar, or whatever. I realize those aren't perfect or all-encompassing solutions - I've got a good friend who lives in NC but is a Vanderbilt alum and is always jumping through hoops (pun unintended) to see their games. But I think Packer's right to question the wisdom of showing every second of every game just to appease the hard-core fans.

[pfrduke]

I guess it comes down to whether CBS' (or whoever's) goal in broadcasting the tournament is to be comprehensive or to be entertaining. Some fans love the convenience of having every minute of every game available, but I'm not sure it really makes for better TV. I'm right there with you in wanting to watch the Duke games to the end, even if we're playing Arkansas-Pine Bluff and are ahead by 27 - but the last 12-15 minutes of those games isn't exactly wonderful TV.

The risk you run as a network is that if you devote too much airtime to that kind of material, you lose the casual fan who only tunes in for the NCAAT (and there are a LOT of people who don't follow college bball until the postseason). The die-hards like you or me have other options, whether it's the DirecTv March Madness package, a sports bar, or whatever. I realize those aren't perfect or all-encompassing solutions - I've got a good friend who lives in NC but is a Vanderbilt alum and is always jumping through hoops (pun unintended) to see their games. But I think Packer's right to question the wisdom of showing every second of every game just to appease the hard-core fans.

Two things. First, showing every second of every game puts the viewer (and not a CBS producer) in control of when you get tired of one game and want to see another. All you have to do is change the channel, and voila! there's the new game. This is not just appeasement of hard-core fans, and I think Packer's most ridiculous comment (aside from complaining about not being in a CBS TV promo, which is funny on many levels) is in saying that broadcasting all games is a change targeted at "the .01% of viewers who really want a specific game." I would wager very substantial amounts of money that more than .01% of viewers want the ability to change between games at their own choosing.

Second, I can't help but see how this isn't better for the March Madness broadcast product. Previously, a viewer of a game he no longer had interest in had no alternative but to watch that broadcast, watch a non-March Madness show on TV, or turn the TV off. Now, the viewer can choose from up to 3 additional games that he/she may be more interested in. Cumulatively, this will keep more people watching more hours of March Madness, which can only be a positive for the broadcaster.

[pfrduke]

And, actually, a third thing. I suspect that the main CBS game will continue to run live look-ins, both for viewers that don't have cable and to remind everyone of the new format (i.e., "look, here's action you could be watching right now on TNT if you wanted to").

[hudlow]

Packer should be on his knees every day giving thanks for Jim Thacker. If it weren't for Thacker, Billy P would be selling shoes somewhere.

[DukeCrow]

And, actually, a third thing. I suspect that the main CBS game will continue to run live look-ins, both for viewers that don't have cable and to remind everyone of the new format (i.e., "look, here's action you could be watching right now on TNT if you wanted to").

I hope so because when Duke isn't playing I'd rather just veg out in front of the TV and not have to worry about keeping track of all the games to make sure I don't miss a great ending. There is something to be said for having someone else automatically switch you over to a close game at the end without you having to figure out which channel is carrying that particular game at the time.

[rthomas]

Packer should be on his knees every day giving thanks for Jim Thacker. If it weren't for Thacker, Billy P would be selling shoes somewhere.

Packer, Thacker and Bones McKinney. They were great together.

[78Devil]

Wow, alot of folks on this thread are the negative ones.

I loved the Packer/Thacker days. And even after them, I loved Packer's knowledge of the game. And while no one would call Packer a Duke enthusiast, I would not have called him a Duke basher either. He was curmudgeonly sometimes, but I must like curmudgeons. Coach Knight is one, and he is an incredible commentator.

I agree with most but not all of Packer's article. One thing I really agree on is how much I will miss alot of the ESPN commentators who have been really following these teams all year. NCAAs without Bilas is a bummer.

I think that the college commendator specialists -- for the most part -- don't over dramatize and drum up controversy just for the sake of having fake debates on t.v. to generate drama. That's the norm for the NBA-types, and I don't look forward to it.

[Bluedog]

I'd like to again raise the point that TruTV will be bad for sports bar viewers unless DirecTV adds the HD feed by next month.

I have TruTV in HD on my Comcast standard cable package...It's weird that DirecTV doesn't. Looks like Dish has it as well:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/competition/dish/hd

I'll bet DirecTV will be getting a lot of requests the next couple weeks and will look to add it. At least for those with DirecTV, none of the Duke games will be on TruTV.

[Duvall]

I think that the college commendator specialists -- for the most part -- don't over dramatize and drum up controversy just for the sake of having fake debates on t.v. to generate drama. That's the norm for the NBA-types, and I don't look forward to it.

Really? If anything I would say it's the other way around. ESPN's Breen/Jackson/Van Gundy announcing team has always struck as less bombastic than most of its college crews.

[camion]

I'll just say what I always said when Billy Packer would be announcing one of our games..."Go To Hell Billy Packer Go To Hell! (am I allowed to say Hell?)

In that context it's appropriate.

[wsb3]

I am just happy that all the games are televised and I don't care what channel they are on. Obviously I am going to watch Duke start to finish but I like the option of picking from the other games, and I can change channels faster and more consistently than CBS.:cool:

[mkline09]

I thought I was the only person who did that. I can tolerate Dickie V because he does love his Dukies. Len Elmore...geeze...there were times when I was wondering if we were watching the same game. Mike Patrick can get annoying as well.
Hey if it's too hot in the confines of the Duke press box I'll gladly take your spot, do it for free & do a better job while at it.

There were times during the UVa game when I honestly was wondering if Patrick was taking shots between the media time outs. I understand a few flubs and inaccuracies in a fast paced game (last nights was not by the way) but about every other time down court he messed something up. Either he was announcing a foul on the wrong player (maybe one not even in the game) saying Duke had a two point lead when they were down by two he was just awful.

As for Elmore, I used to respect the guy. He is bright and seemed to know his stuff but last night he was in rare form. At one point he was talking about Mustapha Farrakhan and he said he does well when he "literally and statistically doesn't turn the ball over"? What does that even mean? It sounds as if he just wants to insert a "fancy" word in his commentary every so often to show how cerebral he is.

[snowdenscold]

At one point he was talking about Mustapha Farrakhan and he said he does well when he "literally and statistically doesn't turn the ball over"? What does that even mean? It sounds as if he just wants to insert a "fancy" word in his commentary every so often to show how cerebral he is.

I caught that too, and all I could think of was perhaps a reference to not palming the ball much? Seemed odd at best.