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Bob Green
02-14-2011, 07:35 PM
We move into the middle of February with conference races tightening up and Bracketologists studying the results of every game. Here is the list of this week's key match-ups:

Monday:

Kansas (1) at Kansas State - the Wildcats have struggled this year but a home victory over the Jayhawks would go a long way toward revitilizing their season.

Tuesday:

St. John's at Marquette - two Big East teams that Duke played this year. St. John's has played the role of giant killer this season with home wins over Georgetown, Notre Dame, Duke, and UConn. Can they win on the road at Marquette?

Wednesday:

Georgetown (9) at Connecticut (13)

Wisconsin (10) at Purdue (11) - can the Badgers build off their huge victory over Ohio State?

Thursday:

Washington State at Arizona - the Cougars are desperate for a victory.

Friday:

Connecticut (13) at Louisville (15) - another tough game in the Big East. I'm not a fan of Big East basketball, but it's difficult to ignore the games with so many Top 25 teams coming from that conference.

Saturday:

Pittsburgh (4) at St. John's - will Pittsburgh be another Red Storm victim?

Washington at Arizona (12) - the Huskies must beat the Wildcats to remain in the Pac 10 title run.

Utah St. (25) at St. Mary's - the WAC versus the WCC so conference pride is on the line.

Sunday:

Ohio St. (2) at Purdue (11)

As always this list of games is not intended to be all inclusive so feel free to add to it and join in the discussion of exciting Top 25 action across the nation.

DukieTiger
02-14-2011, 07:42 PM
With the amount of Big East teams ranked in the mid teens, there's going to be a lot of bloodshed in that league over the next couple weeks. Obviously, I'd rather them drop a couple games, but if the Heels take care of business they could be borderline top 10 when we play them next.

jv001
02-14-2011, 07:47 PM
With the amount of Big East teams ranked in the mid teens, there's going to be a lot of bloodshed in that league over the next couple weeks. Obviously, I'd rather them drop a couple games, but if the Heels take care of business they could be borderline top 10 when we play them next.

I'm going to tell my unc friends that carolina is so bad, that our win over them could not even move us one spot in the polls. I can remember when beating them meant something lol.;) Go Duke!

-bdbd
02-14-2011, 07:57 PM
With the amount of Big East teams ranked in the mid teens, there's going to be a lot of bloodshed in that league over the next couple weeks. Obviously, I'd rather them drop a couple games, but if the Heels take care of business they could be borderline top 10 when we play them next.

Who knows?? Heck, they lost a game last week (and played pretty poorly to lose it in the second half), yet moved UP in the rankings. So, anything is possible! :rolleyes:
I'd just rather not have them in the top-16 come NCAAT seeding time. That's b/c NC getting a top-4 seed means a good chance of them coming to Charlotte for the first two rounds, where I'd most likely see a #1 or #2 Duke team going. It just wouldn't be as "fun" for us in Charlotte in that event. I recall playing the first two rounds in Charlotte a few years ago under similar circumstances, and almost losing to a much lower seeded opponent, aided by a nasty anti-Duke crowd there. I swear the Kerlina crowd root louder AGAINST Duke than they ever do FOR NC! :confused: :rolleyes:

But they do have some tough games upcoming - home vs BC, AT State, home against MD, AT FSU (tho that may have just gotten easier via a key FSU injury) and home vs. Duke. I don't think it unreasonable to expect a couple more L's get hung oin them this season (incl the ACCT). They haven't exactly been crushing the competition - by 2 vs. Mia, by 2 vs. Clemson, etc. We'll see....

pfrduke
02-14-2011, 08:04 PM
Utah St. (25) at St. Mary's - the WAC versus the WCC so conference pride is on the line.

As the only matchup involving top 25 teams, this is the highlight game of the annual Bracket Buster weekend, now involving 114 teams. 11 of the 57 games are on the ESPN networks, including some important games for mid-majors who hope to stay in the conversation for an at-large bid if they don't win their conferences - that tag fits both Utah St. and St. Mary's, as well as Wichita State (hosting VCU), George Mason (at Northern Iowa), Old Dominion (hosting Cleveland State), and Missouri State (at Valparaiso).

DukeDiva
02-14-2011, 10:53 PM
KU is getting schooled right now by K-State with a score of 60-47. KSU is shooting 80% 2nd half fgs compared to KU at 33%.

-jk
02-14-2011, 11:03 PM
That was a stupid tech. Taunting trying to make a comeback. KSt gets a 4 point possession with 6 minutes to go.

-jk

Andre Buckner Fan
02-14-2011, 11:04 PM
KU is getting schooled right now by K-State with a score of 60-47. KSU is shooting 80% 2nd half fgs compared to KU at 33%.

K-State is starting to play at their talent level. This will make our win over them more of an asset for tourney seeding.

moonpie23
02-14-2011, 11:08 PM
79-61 with 4:12 left to play...

Ksu getting it done...

BD80
02-14-2011, 11:12 PM
79-61 with 4:12 left to play...

Ksu getting it done...

The ONLY team in the top 5 that this helps is DUKE!

Maybe St Johns can do the same to Pitt on Saturday!

JasonEvans
02-14-2011, 11:15 PM
K-St is desperately trying to save their season. They came into this contest at 4-6 in the B12. This was a must-win if they were to right the ship and have a chance at the NCAA Tourney.

--Jason "makes our win over them look better too" Evans

Bob Green
02-14-2011, 11:25 PM
The fans rush the court in Manhattan as Kansas' reign as the #1 team in the country comes to a quick end with an 84-68 loss at the hands of the Kansas State Wildcats. Jacob Pullen played a great game with a career high 38 points.

tommy
02-14-2011, 11:44 PM
The ONLY team in the top 5 that this helps is DUKE!

Maybe St Johns can do the same to Pitt on Saturday!

Even better would be Michigan State hanging another loss on Ohio State tomorrow night. We would certainly move past OSU in the polls and other rankings (assuming of course we keep winning) and our win over MSU might look a little better than it has come to look over the last month or so.

davekay1971
02-14-2011, 11:54 PM
The fans rush the court in Manhattan as Kansas' reign as the #1 team in the country comes to a quick end with an 84-68 loss at the hands of the Kansas State Wildcats. Jacob Pullen played a great game with a career high 38 points.

Maybe Pullen read the comments in that Seth Davis article that he wouldn't make it in the league!

Improves our chances of reclaiming a 1 seed a little...

WiJoe
02-15-2011, 12:08 AM
At this point, the more K-State wins, the better.

hurley1
02-15-2011, 07:15 AM
For less than 24 hours. Kansas St. beat the living tar out of them. The twins self destructed and Pullen was on fire. I really enjoyed listening to Coach Knight call the game. I learn something new everytime I listen to him do a game. His basketball IQ is simply off the chart.

4decadedukie
02-15-2011, 07:22 AM
So who is the likely #1 next week (clearly understanding that most teams will play twice before the next selection is made). I presume UT-Austin is the presumptive selectee, but I will be most interested in the opinions of DBR experts.

hurley1
02-15-2011, 07:44 AM
Who knows........the best team in the country is Duke.

DukeSean
02-15-2011, 07:46 AM
I see these polls more of an indicator of who hasn't lost lately. That being said, I think Texas is playing the best basketball right now, even before the Kansas loss.

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 07:46 AM
So who is the likely #1 next week (clearly understanding that most teams will play twice before the next selection is made). I presume UT-Austin is the presumptive selectee, but I will be most interested in the opinions of DBR experts.

I think it should be Texas; but based on the AP and Coach's Polls, it looks for the first time in a while we could be looking at non-consensus number 1 team with Ohio State being #1 in the AP and Texas being #1 in the Coach's Poll if both teams win their games this week.

I'm also curious to see where Kansas is ranked in relation to Duke next week if Duke wins both their games this week.

ice-9
02-15-2011, 01:55 PM
I'm also curious to see where Kansas is ranked in relation to Duke next week if Duke wins both their games this week.

Tough call!

Kansas' loss to Kansas St is as bad if not worse as ours to St. John's.

So let's take a look at the other loss:
- A top ranked Texas team by 11 points at home for Kansas
- FSU, a likely NCAA tournament team, by 5 points away for Duke

Which is worse? Hard to say.

The tie breaker has got to be that we at least defeated the team Kansas got clobbered by, and in Kansas City by 14 to boot and at a time when Kansas St still had positive momentum.

Advantage Duke...but then again, I AM kinda biased. :)

Saratoga2
02-15-2011, 02:13 PM
Tough call!

Kansas' loss to Kansas St is as bad if not worse as ours to St. John's.

So let's take a look at the other loss:
- A top ranked Texas team by 11 points at home for Kansas
- FSU, a likely NCAA tournament team, by 5 points away for Duke

Which is worse? Hard to say.

The tie breaker has got to be that we at least defeated the team Kansas got clobbered by, and in Kansas City by 14 to boot and at a time when Kansas St still had positive momentum.

Advantage Duke...but then again, I AM kinda biased. :)

We have some tough games left on the schedule, and we know away games against weaker teams may be traps. We have to get past VT away and UNC away plus we have to play the ACC tournament. Probably some of the other teams will lose again, including Pittsburgh, Texas and Kansas all have tough games ahead. In the end, it would be great to get a #1 seed, but there are a lot of games to play before that. Having Kansas go down like they did is certainly a plus from Duke's standpoint.

JasonEvans
02-15-2011, 02:27 PM
Tough call!

Kansas' loss to Kansas St is as bad if not worse as ours to St. John's.

So let's take a look at the other loss:
- A top ranked Texas team by 11 points at home for Kansas
- FSU, a likely NCAA tournament team, by 5 points away for Duke

Which is worse? Hard to say.

The tie breaker has got to be that we at least defeated the team Kansas got clobbered by, and in Kansas City by 14 to boot and at a time when Kansas St still had positive momentum.

Advantage Duke...but then again, I AM kinda biased. :)

You may be biased, but Kansas' resume/claim for a #1 seed has some real holes in it.


The only team they have played ranked in the top 15 in Pom's rankings is Texas... and they lost pretty badly... and it was at home.

Their best win is a neutral court victory over #16 Arizona.

Their only other win against a team in the Top 30 is Missouri... and it was at home.

The only other Top 40 team they have played is KSt (#36) against whom they are 1-1 with a big win at home and a big loss on the road.


So, against the top 40 teams in the land, they are 3-2 with only one of the games on the road. They close the regular season with a road game against Missouri. That may tell us a lot about Kansas and whether they really are as good as some seem to believe.

Compare this to Duke, who is 5-0 against the top 40 (though we have 2 losses, to #42 StJ and #43 FSU -- both on the road). Our Top 40 wins include a road contest at Maryland, a neutral court game with Marquette, and a game against KSt in Kansas City (essentially a road game).

Duke closes with a brutal 4-game stretch. All 4 games are against teams in the Top 40 and includes a contest at #24 Va Tech and at #11 UNC. I would argue that even if we ONLY managed to go 3-1 in that stretch, and then we won the ACC Tourney, our claim for a #1 seed would be easily more impressive than that of Kansas unless Kansas manages to run the table (including wins at Mizzu and winning the B12 tourney over Texas).

--Jason "just my Duke-blue colored glasses talking ;) " Evans

juise
02-15-2011, 09:22 PM
In the same vein as last night's upset, it would be great if Michigan State could pull one out against tOSU tonight. That would give one of the other top teams a loss and improve Duke's resume. The game's in Columbus and Summer managed to pick up two early ones, so I'm not optimistic.

Bob Green
02-15-2011, 10:10 PM
Halftime score: OSU 35, Michigan State 34. The Spartans are looking good and have scored some easy baskets on high-low passes. Adreian Payne (C) and Derrick Nix (C) lead Michigan with 8 and 7 points respectively. They are a combined 6 of 7 from the field. Garrick Sherman (C) has contributed 4 points on 2-2 shooting. The big guys have scored a lot inside.

Jared Sullinger sat significant minutes in the first half with two fouls as did Durrell Summers. The second half should be exciting. Hopefully, the Spartans continue to play inspired basketball.

JasonEvans
02-15-2011, 10:34 PM
tOSU by 2 with 9 mins remaining.

Come on Sparty!!

-JE

Bob Green
02-18-2011, 01:06 PM
Washington State lost at Arizona 79-70 to fall to 17-9 (7-7 Pac10). The Cougars are probably not going to make the NCAAT but they have opportunities for signature wins at Washington on Feb. 27 and home against UCLA on Mar. 5. It appears the Pac 10 might only place three teams in the NCAAT: Arizona, Washington and UCLA.

This weekend Washington is at Arizona in a showdown of two of the conference's top three teams. Washington won the first meeting in Seattle 85-68, but Arizona is unbeaten at home this season and is riding a seven game win streak since losing to Washington on Jan. 20. It should be a good game.

Bob Green
02-19-2011, 01:17 PM
The second half just started at MSG and St. John's holds a 28-27 lead over Pitt.

Gthoma2a
02-19-2011, 02:14 PM
The second half just started at MSG and St. John's holds a 28-27 lead over Pitt.

They are playing incredible basketball. I think Lavin is coach of the year. That team was nowhere near this level last year, but they are DANGEROUS right now. They should definitely be ranked. They have bad losses, but nobody has more impressive wins than them if they pull this off.

WOW!!!

Cameron
02-19-2011, 02:18 PM
YES!

And I think I concur on Lavin as national coach of the year. St. John's lost 16 games last season and hasn't danced since 2002. And I also agree with Lavin, Dwight Hardy is hands down the Big East Player of the Year. If he doesn't win it, somebody should be arrested.

loran16
02-19-2011, 02:21 PM
What an ending. Hardy finishes off Pitt and St. Johns is now WAY in the tournament (They're probably in even if they were to lose to South Florida, Depaul, and Seton Hall, and they'll win at least 2 of those 3 games (USF and Depaul are at St. John's, so they should be wins)).

Just imagine 4 years from now when Lavin has 9 seniors again....but this time highly ranked prospects that he recruited himself.

BD80
02-19-2011, 02:22 PM
St John's does us a big favor by knocking off #4 Pitt on a last second shot, but they don't storm the court.

Who would have guessed our 2 best non-conference games would be St Johns and Temple?

mkline09
02-19-2011, 02:28 PM
St John's does us a big favor by knocking off #4 Pitt on a last second shot, but they don't storm the court.

Who would have guessed our 2 best non-conference games would be St Johns and Temple?

This is good for Duke on multiple levels. Pitt's loss gives Duke at least for now a head up on a No. 1 seed. Also as it stands now Duke's two loses are to teams that appear to be tournament bound though FSU may be on the bubble with the loss of Singleton. St. John's winning helps Duke's strength of schedule and RPI too.

loran16
02-19-2011, 02:30 PM
St John's does us a big favor by knocking off #4 Pitt on a last second shot, but they don't storm the court.

Who would have guessed our 2 best non-conference games would be St Johns and Temple?

Not Quite...the students attempted to, but were beaten back by security. That's the downside of using an NBA Arena.

Saratoga2
02-19-2011, 02:31 PM
Just shows how much parity there is in college BB. Duke has a couple of tough games coming up as well with VT and UNC. We have got to hope that Kyle gets his scoring back for those.

Cameron
02-19-2011, 02:33 PM
Just imagine 4 years from now when Lavin has 9 seniors again....but this time highly ranked prospects that he recruited himself.


I think we are starting to see the dividends of Lavin's hiring of Gene Keady as a special assistant/in-game strategist. That was always one of Steve's weaknesses out in Westwood, as has been well noted. This year, the Johnnies are seemingly making all the right calls down the stretch in big games, a stage on which Lavin was never at his strongest.

It also doesn't hurt that your point guard plays similar to Isiah Thomas in clutch situations. Hardy is quickly launching to the top of the ranks of point guards in the country. I really love this kid, what he and his team did to Duke notwithstanding.

Gthoma2a
02-19-2011, 02:34 PM
I really can't keep my excitement about this team down. I have to wonder how it would have been to play them with Kyrie, but we may find that out come tournament time. If we somehow go out in the tournament and they are still in, I will be pulling for this team to win it. I like the seniors who have gone through a lackluster 3 years finding a way to win just in time for a shot at greatness. It reminds me of us last year.

loran16
02-19-2011, 02:47 PM
I think we are starting to see the dividends of Lavin's hiring of Gene Keady as a special assistant/in-game strategist. That was always one of Steve's weaknesses out in Westwood, as has been well noted. This year, the Johnnies are seemingly making all the right calls down the stretch in big games, a stage on which Lavin was never at his strongest.

It also doesn't hurt that your point guard plays similar to Isiah Thomas in clutch situations. Hardy is quickly launching to the top of the ranks of point guards in the country. I really love this kid, what he and his team did to Duke notwithstanding.

While Keady I'm sure is a good help, I'd also think that LAVIN HIMSELF is more experienced in game strategy now than at UCLA. Remember, UCLA was his first head coaching job and he lucked into it. Since then he's spent years watching more games than he probably did at UCLA, and from a variety of different strategists.

Keady's probably helped a bunch, but Lavin's a far more experienced guy now himself.

Cameron
02-19-2011, 02:58 PM
While Keady I'm sure is a good help, I'd also think that LAVIN HIMSELF is more experienced in game strategy now than at UCLA. Remember, UCLA was his first head coaching job and he lucked into it. Since then he's spent years watching more games than he probably did at UCLA, and from a variety of different strategists.

Keady's probably helped a bunch, but Lavin's a far more experienced guy now himself.

I certainly won't disagree with this. I didn't mean to discredit Lavin's ability; he's obvious a very good coach. More than likely, the addition of Keady has proven to work in perfect combination with Lavin's outstanding recruiting and experienced coaching background. At any rate, things are going as well as Lavin could have hoped at this point.

Olympic Fan
02-19-2011, 03:05 PM
Great win for the Johnnies ... and, yes, it does help Duke's chances of earning a No. 1 seed.

One other point. With wins over UConn, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Duke and now Pitt, is it possible that St. John's has more quality wins that the entire ACC does combined).

(Yeah, I know they also have a couple of bad losses and all their great wins are at home ... still, that's an impressive list of scalps).

loran16
02-19-2011, 03:19 PM
Great win for the Johnnies ... and, yes, it does help Duke's chances of earning a No. 1 seed.

One other point. With wins over UConn, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Duke and now Pitt, is it possible that St. John's has more quality wins that the entire ACC does combined).

(Yeah, I know they also have a couple of bad losses and all their great wins are at home ... still, that's an impressive list of scalps).

To be fair, all of those good wins are after their bad loss to Fordham, and St. Bonaventures, while not a good loss, has actually not been godawful this year.

Put it this way, since those two losses, SJU is:
12-6 (4-4 on the road) with wins over:
UConn, GTown, Notre Dame, Pitt, and Duke at home.
WVU, Cinci, and Marquette on the road (All top 50 teams)

Their only 6 losses since then have all come to Pomeroy top 50 teams, 4 on the road, 1 to CUSE at MSG (which is almost home court for Cuse at times) and 1 to Cinci in Queens (Okay, not so good).

That's a hell of an 18 game stretch.

Dukeface88
02-19-2011, 03:33 PM
Nebraska playing one hell of a game vs. Texas. Up by 11 with 5 minutes to go.

This could be a very good day for our seeding.

Spam Filter
02-19-2011, 03:45 PM
If Neb holds on, and Purdue beats OSU tomorrow, Duke could be playing for the #1 ranking tomorrow night.

burns15
02-19-2011, 03:53 PM
Nebraska choking hardcore right now, a 12-1 Texas run in 30 seconds to tie the game

stillcrazie
02-19-2011, 04:04 PM
And they pull out the win over UT!

Olympic Fan
02-19-2011, 04:09 PM
Duke's chances of earning a No. 1 seed really got a boost this week.

First, Kansas loses to a K-State team that Duke crushed. Then Pitt loses to the St. John's team that gave us our "supposedly" bad loss. Then Texas loses to Nebraska -- the fourth loss for the Longhorns.

Now, if Purdue can just knock off OSU Sunday in Wes Lafeyette!

4decadedukie
02-19-2011, 04:14 PM
What a Saturday: UT loses to Nebraska, Saint John's defeats Pitt, and the day is far from over.

NashvilleDevil
02-19-2011, 06:16 PM
Very happy that my alma mater beat Texas today. Probably one of the biggest wins in Husker hoops since winning the Big 8 title in the early 90s.

Olympic Fan
02-19-2011, 06:23 PM
As much as I am happy to see St. John's beat Pitt (since it helps Duke's chances for a No. 1 seed), I just saw on ESPN and overhead shot of Hardy's game-winning drive and basket.

With Pitt up one and less than five seconds left, Hardy goes baseline and scores on the reverse layup.

But on the overhead shot, I thought it was clear that he steps out of bounds on the drive (maybe twice -- one step is not clear ... the other one seems definitive to me). It's the exact opposite of the end of the Alabama at Vandy game last week when 'Bame's potential game-winner was whistled out of bounds on the same baseline ... yet the replay appeared to show that the driver was inbounds.

BTW, Pitt has been without Ashton Gibbs, their top scorer. He returned today and had a career game in the loss. So that WAS a big defeat for the Panthers.

Followup: Okay, now I'm not so sure. I found this post on Youtube:

http://www.casttv.com/video/aetpdt3/dwight-hardy-out-of-bounds-before-last-shot-st-johns-beats-pitt-video

It APPEARS to show Hardy with both heels on the line before he goes up with the winning layup. However, it's a snapshot, not a flim clip and as I look at it closely, it's POSSIBLE that he's on his toes and his heels, the only part of his feet out of bounds, are in the air. Since the out of bounds line is a LINE and not a plane (like the goal line in football is a PLANE), it's possible that he didn't go out of bounds. But it's very, VERY close.

loran16
02-19-2011, 06:46 PM
As much as I am happy to see St. John's beat Pitt (since it helps Duke's chances for a No. 1 seed), I just saw on ESPN and overhead shot of Hardy's game-winning drive and basket.

With Pitt up one and less than five seconds left, Hardy goes baseline and scores on the reverse layup.

But on the overhead shot, I thought it was clear that he steps out of bounds on the drive (maybe twice -- one step is not clear ... the other one seems definitive to me). It's the exact opposite of the end of the Alabama at Vandy game last week when 'Bame's potential game-winner was whistled out of bounds on the same baseline ... yet the replay appeared to show that the driver was inbounds.

BTW, Pitt has been without Ashton Gibbs, their top scorer. He returned today and had a career game in the loss. So that WAS a big defeat for the Panthers.

Followup: Okay, now I'm not so sure. I found this post on Youtube:

http://www.casttv.com/video/aetpdt3/dwight-hardy-out-of-bounds-before-last-shot-st-johns-beats-pitt-video

It APPEARS to show Hardy with both heels on the line before he goes up with the winning layup. However, it's a snapshot, not a flim clip and as I look at it closely, it's POSSIBLE that he's on his toes and his heels, the only part of his feet out of bounds, are in the air. Since the out of bounds line is a LINE and not a plane (like the goal line in football is a PLANE), it's possible that he didn't go out of bounds. But it's very, VERY close.

I disagree, though it is very very close. The way his knees are bent in the snapshot makes it seem that he's on his tip toes at this point, and his heels are in the air.

It's super close, obviously, but the referee is right there looking at his feet. He had the best angle on the call.

Moreover, the point's basically nothing in regards to this discussion...losing by 1 and winning by 1 against Pitt as home are essentially equivalent in reality at showing how good a team is...and St. John's is very very good at MSG and a good team overall. The 2 points might change their seeding, but that's really irrelevant.

sagegrouse
02-19-2011, 08:32 PM
Here's his post game comment on Hardy's game-winning drive and shot (not an exact quote): "He's Baryshnikov on the court. That last play along the baseline showed his Fred Astaire moves. I tell you, he was Frank Sinatra for us tonight."

Ye, Gods! Steve, just say it was a really good play. Or take composition lessons from C.J. Leslie.

sagegrouse

Bob Green
02-19-2011, 09:32 PM
Arizona defeated Washington 87-86 in a barn burner. The Wildcats threatened to run away early but the Huskies fought back and took their first lead with 8 minutes and change left in the game. From that point, it was a back and forth battle to the bitter end.

What I found amazing was the physical play. The Pac 10 is a bit of a touch conference with the refs calling fouls with a minimum amount of contact. However, this was a game where the refs let them play.

Washington's back is against the wall in regard to the Pac 10 regular season title; however, they lost no ground in the big picture today as they battled to the end and came up oh so short.

BD80
02-19-2011, 10:16 PM
... LAVIN HIMSELF is more experienced in game strategy now than at UCLA. Remember, UCLA was his first head coaching job and he lucked into it. Since then he's spent years watching more games than he probably did at UCLA, and from a variety of different strategists.

Keady's probably helped a bunch, but Lavin's a far more experienced guy now himself.

It has been said that Lavin has spent his time as a broadcaster preparing for his return to the bench, talking to every coach he could as he'd prepare for the game he was to announce.


Here's his post game comment on Hardy's game-winning drive and shot (not an exact quote): "He's Baryshnikov on the court. That last play along the baseline showed his Fred Astaire moves. I tell you, he was Frank Sinatra for us tonight." ... sagegrouse

Boy, those references must really resonate with high school players!

Olympic Fan
02-19-2011, 11:35 PM
Great finish in Stillwater caps one of the best days in basketball I can remember ... Texas A&M loses the lead with 10 seconds left, but gets it back on a stupid OSU foul. Last shot is an airball and the Aggies win on the road.

Just great finish after great finish Saturday. How many games were decided in the final seconds or on the last possession?

It reminded me of the great old days of the NCAA Tournament opening round ... just upset. drama. upset. surprise. more drama. Bing, bang, boom.

Okay, here's the big question now. Who is going to be No. 1 on Monday? I know that with the tournament, it's not a big deal, but depending on the outcome of Sunday's two top 5 games, it could be a real interesting debate.

Basically, it comes down to whether Ohio State can beat Purdue at Purdue. If the Buckeyes win, they are No. 1, clearly ... Kansas drops from 1 to 2 for their early week loss to k-State ... Duke probably climbs to No. 3 (assuming Duke beats GTech Sunday). Then it's a tough call between Texas, San Diego State and Pitt for the next three spots.

But what happens if Purdue beats Ohio State? That's a question they didn't address on GameDay. And it's no that farfetched. If that happens, does Kansas stay at No. 1, despite a lopsided loss early in the week? You can't move up Texas, Ohio State or Pitt after weekend losses. Could Duke climb all the way from 5 to 1?

That's a big jump in one week. I imagine the voters would be prety split of that happens. Personally, I think Ohio State will win and make everything simple.

But if they don't ...

ajgoodfella7
02-19-2011, 11:59 PM
I just don't freakin' get it. Jay Bilas just said he believes OSU, Texas, and KU are locks as #1 seeds and he thinks San Diego State has the best case for the 4th #1 seed? I understand he has his reverse bias'... but he really pisses me off sometimes.

loran16
02-20-2011, 12:04 AM
I just don't freakin' get it. Jay Bilas just said he believes OSU, Texas, and KU are locks as #1 seeds and he thinks San Diego State has the best case for the 4th #1 seed? I understand he has his reverse bias'... but he really pisses me off sometimes.

Parrish and Lunardi still don't think Duke as well. They're all way too focused upon "Good Wins," which they don't consider Duke as having, because well, ALL OF DUKE'S FREAKING SCHEDULE HAS DISAPPOINTED, TO NO FAULT OF DUKE.

DukieTiger
02-20-2011, 12:21 AM
Parrish and Lunardi still don't think Duke as well. They're all way too focused upon "Good Wins," which they don't consider Duke as having, because well, ALL OF DUKE'S FREAKING SCHEDULE HAS DISAPPOINTED, TO NO FAULT OF DUKE.

I just don't think Duke should be penalized for how teams play AFTER we've beaten them. To me, K State was the #6 team in the country when we beat them in KC. They killed Gonzaga the night before (frankly, looked better than Duke did that night) and had beaten VT by double digits a week earlier. Not Duke's fault that they fell apart over the season. Kansas game this week just proved that they do in fact have talent. That game should be counted as a quality win. A win that most teams wouldn't be able to match.

Also, wins like the game @Maryland are vastly underrated by the Lunardi/bracketology crowd. Maryland's got one of the best defenses in the country and usually steps up their game when Duke comes to town-and we put up 1.276 PPP on them AT Maryland, which is the best offensive output anyone has racked up vs the Terps this year.

Point is, Duke has some "quality" wins, they might just not be too flashy.

ajgoodfella7
02-20-2011, 12:25 AM
Parrish and Lunardi still don't think Duke as well. They're all way too focused upon "Good Wins," which they don't consider Duke as having, because well, ALL OF DUKE'S FREAKING SCHEDULE HAS DISAPPOINTED, TO NO FAULT OF DUKE.

The biggest problem I have is calling teams locked into a 1 seed when there is still 3 weeks of regular season ball + conference tournament ball to be played. Either Texas or Kansas is guaranteed at least one more loss and Kansas plays at Mizzou in there last regular season game. I just don't see how Kansas and Texas can be considered locks as #1 seeds at this point.

And my next biggest gripe is the fact that San Diego State with their 1 top-25 win over Gonzaga in November, who also plays in a mediocre conference with the exception of BYU who beat them by 13 points last month would have an inside track at a #1 seed at this point?

moonpie23
02-20-2011, 12:42 AM
i heard that crap too...

i'm baggin on bilas.....he's obviously done with duke....so be it...

4decadedukie
02-20-2011, 08:02 AM
Olympic Fan - To respond to your question and as indicated in your post, if OSU defeats Purdue this afternoon (and I believe they shall), then the Bucks are the only reasonable selection to regain the #1 ranking (with KU, Pitt and UT losses this week). For whatever it is worth, however, I am convinced that Duke is the fourth #1 NCAA seed, if we are victorious in our remaining regular season and ACC Tournament games (which is no inconsequential task).

Sage – Lavin is a long-proven idiot (notwithstanding this season’s “magic” at Saint John’s) and yesterday’s ridiculous end-game declaration is only a “small brick in a very large wall” of Lavin senselessness.

JTH
02-20-2011, 08:32 AM
Parrish and Lunardi still don't think Duke as well. They're all way too focused upon "Good Wins," which they don't consider Duke as having, because well, ALL OF DUKE'S FREAKING SCHEDULE HAS DISAPPOINTED, TO NO FAULT OF DUKE.

On the bright side......isn't it nice when you beat the Holes and it's not considered a quality win?

MChambers
02-20-2011, 08:35 AM
I just don't freakin' get it. Jay Bilas just said he believes OSU, Texas, and KU are locks as #1 seeds and he thinks San Diego State has the best case for the 4th #1 seed? I understand he has his reverse bias'... but he really pisses me off sometimes.
I don't think I'd be all that upset to be a #2 seed with San Diego State as a #1.

Also, Duke just needs to take care of business. If Duke wins the rest of its regular season games (no easy task), I think we'll get a #1, because other teams will lose.

sagegrouse
02-20-2011, 08:44 AM
I don't think I'd be all that upset to be a #2 seed with San Diego State as a #1.

Also, Duke just needs to take care of business. If Duke wins the rest of its regular season games (no easy task), I think we'll get a #1, because other teams will lose.

Not sure of Jay's exact quote, but if barrister Bilas did say, "San Diego State has the best case for the 4th #1 seed," then -- parsing words -- that ain't the same as Jay's predicting the Aztecs will get a #1 seed. I doubt he believes the tournament selection committee would put the Aztecs in ahead of Duke and Pitt as things stand now.

sagegrouse

MChambers
02-20-2011, 08:52 AM
Not sure of Jay's exact quote, but if barrister Bilas did say, "San Diego State has the best case for the 4th #1 seed," then -- parsing words -- that ain't the same as Jay's predicting the Aztecs will get a #1 seed. I doubt he believes the tournament selection committee would put the Aztecs in ahead of Duke and Pitt as things stand now.

sagegrouse
I heard Andy Katz on ESPN radio Friday. He basically just said that OSU, Kansas, Texas, and Pitt had the edge for #1 seeds, but Duke and SDSU also had cases. As I listened, I thought that it was awfully early to be worried about this, given the losses that were likely to occur before selection time. Little did I know that two of the teams would lose Saturday.

ChillinDuke
02-20-2011, 10:12 AM
Hi all,

I don't post much, but I have a genuine question. I'm not too up on the bracketology/Lunardi/espn discussions on seeding (mostly because I think it's too darn early to be predicting this sort of thing with 3 weeks left of pre-tourney ball to be played).

But what is the reasoning that Texas is a "lock" for a #1 seed? I mean they have FOUR losses right now. That just seems like a lot of losses at this stage for a #1 seed, let alone a "lock" of a #1 seed. I get that the Pitt and UConn losses are tough games. Nebraska has had some near misses this year and finally got one at home vs Texas. But the USC loss was a shalacking and has to be regarded worse than our loss to St Johns. (USC is 15-12 and 7-7 in conference, and does not look like a threat to make the NCAAT).

So what is this "lock" they speak of??? To me, this is a five-horse race with Duke squarely in the middle, not at the back of the pack.

Thanks in advance.

-Chillin

Edit: Apparently someone was posting similar sentiments to me as a new thread has emerged re: The media's love of TX.

WordLife565
02-20-2011, 10:12 AM
What.....guys on ESPN just said texas/OSU/kansas are the clear cut top 3

WHAT DOES TEXAS HAVE OVER DUKE, they have 4 losses ?

and I've seen them play, they aren't nearly as good as the media says they are. In fact, if you saw that Nebraska game, they have some of the stupidest players and coaches in the NCAA...

Gthoma2a
02-20-2011, 01:45 PM
Purdue is looking like they could get this W today. Ohio State is sort of reeling towards the end of the first half.

Gthoma2a
02-20-2011, 02:21 PM
I would have done this as an edit (it won't let me due to the time it has been posted), but nobody else is that excited about this Purdue vs Ohio State contest?

diveonthefloor
02-20-2011, 02:29 PM
I would have done this as an edit (it won't let me due to the time it has been posted), but nobody else is that excited about this Purdue vs Ohio State contest?

Everyone is probably just getting home from church. :cool:

If Purdue beats OSU convincingly, the new polls could be very interesting.
Even more interesting if Duke beats GT to a pulp.

Guess we'll just have to see?

uh_no
02-20-2011, 02:29 PM
with kansas having such a horrid loss, texas and pitt now both have 4 losses, and ohio state is about to lose for the second time in as many weeks

who else thinks that the voters STILL won't put us at #1

4decadedukie
02-20-2011, 02:34 PM
I'm darn excited with the OSU - Purdue game. In addition potentially to vastly disrupting the presumptive Big 10 regular season conclusion, to altering this week's national rankings, and to changing the top NCAA seeds, my brother is a fanatic Ohio State MA/PhD alumnus, who has given me a hard time since Kyrie's injury and the ACC - Big 10 Challenge results, and I would love to emphasize the fact (late today) that Duke is the only top-five team to be undefeated this weekend.

ajgoodfella7
02-20-2011, 02:40 PM
I'm darn excited with the OSU - Purdue game. In addition potentially to vastly disrupting the presumptive Big 10 regular season conclusion, to altering this week's national rankings, and to changing the top NCAA seeds, my brother is a fanatic Ohio State MA/PhD alumnus, who has given me a hard time since Kyrie's injury and the ACC - Big 10 Challenge results, and I would love to emphasize the fact (late today) that Duke is the only top-five team to be undefeated this weekend.

What does it matter? Bilas says 3 #1 seeds are locked and the team we need to worry about is sdsu. :cool:

4decadedukie
02-20-2011, 02:46 PM
who else thinks that the voters STILL won't put us at #1

I'm afraid I do; premising an OSU loss to Purdue (Boilers up by 10, with 9:30 remaining) and a solid Duke victory in CIS over Georgia Tech this evening, I have NO IDEA how the pundits will rank the (say) the top-ten. However, I will wager that Duke will not be #1 this week (wins over top teams, two losses to "mediocre" clubs, ACC not perceived as ultra-competitive this season). There is a LOT of critical basketball to be played before Selection Sunday; if we are undefeated until then -- and that will be every bit as daunting as was our early-season run against MSU, K State, Butler, etc. -- am confident we shall receive a #1 NCAA seed.

loldevilz
02-20-2011, 03:00 PM
I have come to the conclusion that Duke is not getting a one seed unless we get Kyrie Irving back or we win out. Hopefully both happen.

gumbomoop
02-20-2011, 03:11 PM
Moore had a Nolan Smith-type game.....

All credit to Purdue and Matt Painter. Without Hummel, they didn't feel sorry for themselves.

As for "Who's #1?" - I'm wondering whether we might actually see some difference between the AP and ESPN/USA Coaches polls this week.

I would be a bit disappointed if, in either poll, the voters just punted and kept the top 7 as is. [Edit: Or, in the case of ESPN/USA, simply moved BYU ahead of ND.]

We all assume - I know I do - a big Duke win this eve, and I guess I/we shouldn't.

Papa John
02-20-2011, 03:16 PM
with kansas having such a horrid loss, texas and pitt now both have 4 losses, and ohio state is about to lose for the second time in as many weeks

who else thinks that the voters STILL won't put us at #1

Not me. I think all of the "locks" were just unlocked this week. I think we'll be back at #1 if we beat GaTech tonight in the expected manner. And if Kyrie makes a return to the court soon as some are speculating, then we become the closest thing to a lock for a 1 seed.

tele
02-20-2011, 03:16 PM
So both greg anthony and Seth davis said they would rank Duke as #1, after the OSU loss and assuming a Duke win vs GT. Does Bilas have a vote?

loran16
02-20-2011, 03:18 PM
I have come to the conclusion that Duke is not getting a one seed unless we get Kyrie Irving back or we win out. Hopefully both happen.

Sounds like it right? It's kind of beyond silly. We lose one understandable game (@FSU) and one blowout (that looks more and more understandable) and all of a sudden we're not considered as good as Kansas (1 understandable loss and then a blowout that's far worse than ours), Pitt (1 understandable loss (SJU), 1 understandable but home loss (ND), and then whatever the hell you call Tennessee in Pittsburgh), or Texas (3 understandable losses and then a blowout against USC).

Like, I understand OSU....they have better losses and some good wins. But the perception is that Duke is worse than these other teams is just ridiculous.

uh_no
02-20-2011, 03:18 PM
So both greg anthony and Seth davis said they would rank Duke as #1, after the OSU loss and assuming a Duke win vs GT. Does Bilas have a vote?

I found it very promising that both said they would vote for duke.....have to take care of business tonight though

tele
02-20-2011, 03:23 PM
I found it very promising that both said they would vote for duke.....have to take care of business tonight though

Of course taking care of business with GT first, but especially promising considering Duke might be ranked # 1 again, and that is without definite word on KI's status. Kind of amazing really.

camion
02-20-2011, 03:24 PM
Not me. I think all of the "locks" were just unlocked this week. I think we'll be back at #1 if we beat GaTech tonight in the expected manner. And if Kyrie makes a return to the court soon as some are speculating, then we become the closest thing to a lock for a 1 seed.

But we must win.

We have Va Tech and UNC away in the next two weeks. Win those and we should be good for a #1.

Olympic Fan
02-20-2011, 03:25 PM
Please ... don't get too carried away by what the pundits say. How many of them had us getting a No. 1 seed at this time last year?

Yeah, Duke has to finish strong -- no more than one more loss and an ACC Tournament title. But a lot of things can happen in the next three weeks ... as this weekend proved. Take San Diego State -- they and BYU have at least two more losses between them (they play each other, plus one will lose in their tourney). Any of these teams can lose in their conference tournaments and that could be the deciding factor.

Duke beats Georgia Tech today as expected and Duke is a No. 1 seed AS OF TODAY.

I am curious to see what the voters do in tomorrow's poll. Now that No. 3 Ohio State, No. 2 Texas and No. 4 Pitt have lost over the weekend, I'd be willing to bet that none of those three is at No. 1 Monday.

That leaves:

-- Duke: But can the Devils really jump five places in one week?
-- Kansas: I know they lost big to K-State early in the week, but that doesn't have as much impact with the voters as a weekend game -- especially since they bounced back and routed Colorado. They could stay No. 1 on some ballots.
-- San Diego State: The best record in the country, but they were behind Duke anyway, so I doubt that happens.

If I had to guess, I'd guess (1) Duke; (2) Kansas; (3) San Diego State; (4) Ohio State; (5) Texas; (6) Pitt ... but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

PS Keep an eye on the rankings. While RPI is the best guage for who gets in the tourney, the human polls are a better predictor of the top seedings. A year ago, everybody was so shocked that Duke got a No. 1 seed, but Duke was No. 4 in the AP and Coaches Poll at the time the selection was made.

Wander
02-20-2011, 03:49 PM
Ohio State, Pitt, and Kansas do all have better resumes than us. Texas is questionable. It's not our fault since we tried to schedule tough, but since when should that ever matter? If we win out we'll certainly get a 1 seed, but there's nothing to be outraged about right now.

ajgoodfella7
02-20-2011, 03:50 PM
Please ... don't get too carried away by what the pundits say. How many of them had us getting a No. 1 seed at this time last year?

Yeah, Duke has to finish strong -- no more than one more loss and an ACC Tournament title. But a lot of things can happen in the next three weeks ... as this weekend proved. Take San Diego State -- they and BYU have at least two more losses between them (they play each other, plus one will lose in their tourney). Any of these teams can lose in their conference tournaments and that could be the deciding factor.

Duke beats Georgia Tech today as expected and Duke is a No. 1 seed AS OF TODAY.

I am curious to see what the voters do in tomorrow's poll. Now that No. 3 Ohio State, No. 2 Texas and No. 4 Pitt have lost over the weekend, I'd be willing to bet that none of those three is at No. 1 Monday.

That leaves:

-- Duke: But can the Devils really jump five places in one week?
-- Kansas: I know they lost big to K-State early in the week, but that doesn't have as much impact with the voters as a weekend game -- especially since they bounced back and routed Colorado. They could stay No. 1 on some ballots.
-- San Diego State: The best record in the country, but they were behind Duke anyway, so I doubt that happens.

If I had to guess, I'd guess (1) Duke; (2) Kansas; (3) San Diego State; (4) Ohio State; (5) Texas; (6) Pitt ... but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

PS Keep an eye on the rankings. While RPI is the best guage for who gets in the tourney, the human polls are a better predictor of the top seedings. A year ago, everybody was so shocked that Duke got a No. 1 seed, but Duke was No. 4 in the AP and Coaches Poll at the time the selection was made.

I would guess (assuming a Duke win):

(1) Duke
(2) Ohio State or (2) Kansas
(3) Kansas or (3) Ohio State
(4) Texas
(5) San Diego State
(6) Pitt

I just can't put SDSU higher than 5, because I truly believe that they are a level below the best teams out there. If they can beat BYU at home this week I'll reconsider, but until then, I don't think they belong any higher than 5.

ajgoodfella7
02-20-2011, 03:54 PM
Ohio State, Pitt, and Kansas do all have better resumes than us. Texas is questionable. It's not our fault since we tried to schedule tough, but since when should that ever matter? If we win out we'll certainly get a 1 seed, but there's nothing to be outraged about right now.

I'm not outraged at the thought of not being a #1 seed at this point, just at the opinion that 3 of the #1 seeds can be locked up with 3 weeks of basketball left to play.

(And the fact that Jay Bilas keeps comparing every team against the '09 UNC team, for some reason.)

DukieTiger
02-20-2011, 04:07 PM
I'm not outraged at the thought of not being a #1 seed at this point, just at the opinion that 3 of the #1 seeds can be locked up with 3 weeks of basketball left to play.

(And the fact that Jay Bilas keeps comparing every team against the '09 UNC team, for some reason.)

Hmm... Pretty sure none of this year's top 5 started 0-2 in their conference. :cool:

1 24 90
02-20-2011, 04:08 PM
I'm not outraged at the thought of not being a #1 seed at this point, just at the opinion that 3 of the #1 seeds can be locked up with 3 weeks of basketball left to play.

(And the fact that Jay Bilas keeps comparing every team against the '09 UNC team, for some reason.)

I understand that 09 UNC was a good team and breezed through the tourney but they still had 4 losses. I am a little tired also of hearing how great they were.

ajgoodfella7
02-20-2011, 04:22 PM
I think the thing that started me on this Bilas tirade was a few weeks ago when he made this statement about Allen Fieldhouse:


"I thought the atmosphere was unbelievable. I've been here before, but it's just such an unbelievable place. It has such character. I can't say I've ever been in a better arena."
—Jay Bilas, ESPN announcer

mapei
02-20-2011, 04:41 PM
I think the thing that started me on this Bilas tirade was a few weeks ago when he made this statement about Allen Fieldhouse:

I understand that the place is old and Kansas has had an outstanding program for as long as anyone. But, good grief, they have a chicken painted on the floor that takes up half the court.

juise
02-20-2011, 05:54 PM
Speaking of the Purdue-OSU game and on-court graphics, I was thinking about how Purdue's court is named for Gene Keady and he's coaching at St. John's. I'm sure it's happened before, but I can't think of any other instances where a court or building is named after a coach while he's coaching at another D-1 program.

Dukeface88
02-20-2011, 06:48 PM
Speaking of the Purdue-OSU game and on-court graphics, I was thinking about how Purdue's court is named for Gene Keady and he's coaching at St. John's. I'm sure it's happened before, but I can't think of any other instances where a court or building is named after a coach while he's coaching at another D-1 program.

Bobby Cremins (court at Ga. Tech, coaching at College of Charleston).

loran16
02-20-2011, 09:50 PM
Bobby Cremins (court at Ga. Tech, coaching at College of Charleston).

The Cremins thing is weirder. Keady came out of retirement this year to help a former protege and is only an assistant.

Cremins is a full time coach of a lesser school.

Bob Green
02-20-2011, 10:00 PM
The Cremins thing is weirder. Keady came out of retirement this year to help a former protege and is only an assistant.

Cremins is a full time coach of a lesser school.

Bobby Cremins burnt out in the high stress environment at GT. Once recovered, he realized he still had the passion to coach so he took a low stress job. It isn't really weird, but I'll agree it's unorthodox.

SuperTurkey
02-20-2011, 10:03 PM
Bobby Cremins burnt out in the high stress environment at GT. Once recovered, he realized he still had the passion to coach so he took a low stress job. It isn't really weird, but I'll agree it's unorthodox.

And the golf is a whole heck of a lot better in Charleston.

moonpie23
02-20-2011, 10:33 PM
@SethDavisHoops Seth davis
Just emailed my ballot. Peeled the onion and changed my mind. Went bigger picture. New top five: 1. Pitt 2. Ohio St 3. Kan 4. Duke 5. Tex

SuperTurkey
02-20-2011, 10:35 PM
@SethDavisHoops Seth davis
Just emailed my ballot. Peeled the onion and changed my mind. Went bigger picture. New top five: 1. Pitt 2. Ohio St 3. Kan 4. Duke 5. Tex

So Pitt moves up to #1 the day after a loss? Wow, that's very "big picture."

sagegrouse
02-20-2011, 10:37 PM
And the golf is a whole heck of a lot better in Charleston.

Not to mention (a) beaches, (b) traffic, and (c) fishing.

sagegrouse

Buckeye Devil
02-20-2011, 10:42 PM
Duke should be #1 this week by default followed by #2 SDSU and #3 Pitt. I think Duke has a great shot to get a #1 seed assuming they win the ACC Tourney because Ohio State is on its way to playing itself out of a #1 seed. The Buckeyes are not the same team since blowing a 15 point lead against Wisconsin. Thad Matta is a great recruiter but he is not a great X's and O's coach and Ohio State is really having some serious issues on the defensive end right now. The NCAA is really up for grabs from the looks of things. I think a healthy Irving would have made Duke the clear choice to repeat. But without him I think Duke is fairly mortal this year. One team starting to look good right now is Louisville. The Cardinals are healthy and hitting their stride. I would not want to face them in the Sweet 16.

ice-9
02-20-2011, 10:57 PM
Ohio State lost on the road to two ranked teams....that doesn't sound that bad to me. Few teams look good in a loss. I still think the Buckeyes have the strongest claim to a #1 seed.

ajgoodfella7
02-20-2011, 10:59 PM
Duke should be #1 this week by default followed by #2 SDSU and #3 Pitt. I think Duke has a great shot to get a #1 seed assuming they win the ACC Tourney because Ohio State is on its way to playing itself out of a #1 seed. The Buckeyes are not the same team since blowing a 15 point lead against Wisconsin. Thad Matta is a great recruiter but he is not a great X's and O's coach and Ohio State is really having some serious issues on the defensive end right now. The NCAA is really up for grabs from the looks of things. I think a healthy Irving would have made Duke the clear choice to repeat. But without him I think Duke is fairly mortal this year. One team starting to look good right now is Louisville. The Cardinals are healthy and hitting their stride. I would not want to face them in the Sweet 16.

I don't think Pitt has a chance to jump OSU, Texas, or KU after their loss @ St. Johns on Saturday.

ajgoodfella7
02-20-2011, 11:00 PM
@SethDavisHoops Seth davis
Just emailed my ballot. Peeled the onion and changed my mind. Went bigger picture. New top five: 1. Pitt 2. Ohio St 3. Kan 4. Duke 5. Tex

What in the hell? At least we know where Pitt's only #1 vote will come from.

Acymetric
02-20-2011, 11:00 PM
I don't think Pitt has a chance to jump OSU, Texas, or KU after their loss @ St. Johns on Saturday.

Uh oh...better go talk to Seth Davis ;)

ajgoodfella7
02-20-2011, 11:01 PM
Uh oh...better go talk to Seth Davis ;)

Ha, so it would seem. He must have jumped St. Johns from unranked to #6, then.

Buckeye Devil
02-20-2011, 11:13 PM
Ohio State lost on the road to two ranked teams....that doesn't sound that bad to me. Few teams look good in a loss. I still think the Buckeyes have the strongest claim to a #1 seed.

Agree that losing on the road to 2 ranked teams is not that bad but the Buckeyes were really horrible today. It might be a late season lull but compared to a couple of weeks ago, they are not the same team right now.

SCMatt33
02-21-2011, 12:14 AM
Here's an interesting thing that I noticed about the AP top 25 this week. 7 of the top ten teams lost this week, but only two teams ranked 11-25 lost. #13 UConn lost a game to #16 Louisville who lost to Cincy. Of course, with Louisville having that win over UConn, and UConn beating Georgetown, it's hard to punish either one too much. At the bottom of the poll, Utah state is #25, but just won their biggest game of the year over St. Mary's so its hard to see anyone catching them from behind. Unless something weird happens, we will have a week where the top 4 teams and 7 of the top 10 lose, but no one moves in or out of the top 25. This likely won't be the case in the coaches poll, as they had St. Mary's ranked, but I wonder if those two things have ever happened simultaneously in the AP poll.

On another note, I was reading that the top 4 haven't all lost since 2003, but that was in November, when teams are ranked purely on speculation. For the record, two of those four teams, Michigan State and Arizona, ended up as 7 and 9 seeds in the tourney, not exactly legit top 4 teams. Anyone know the last time the top 4 all lost this late in the season (not counting conference or the NCAA tourneys).

Kedsy
02-21-2011, 01:21 AM
I have come to the conclusion that Duke is not getting a one seed unless we get Kyrie Irving back or we win out.

Why? Because the ESPN talking heads said so? You're putting way more faith in their pronouncements than they deserve.

I have come to the conclusion that we won't know who the #1 seeds are for a couple weeks, at least. In my opinion, if Duke wins the ACC regular season and ACC tourney, we'll be a #1 seed, no matter what the guys from ESPN say.

strawbs
02-21-2011, 01:45 AM
Why? Because the ESPN talking heads said so? You're putting way more faith in their pronouncements than they deserve.

I have come to the conclusion that we won't know who the #1 seeds are for a couple weeks, at least. In my opinion, if Duke wins the ACC regular season and ACC tourney, we'll be a #1 seed, no matter what the guys from ESPN say.

that's pretty much what loldevilz said with the "or we need to win out" to get a number 1 seed part of their post. In order to win the acc regular season title we probably do need to win out because even though its possible they lose, unc's remaining schedule is by no means brutal and our chance at an outright regular season title will probably come down to the unc game. If we lose to temple it would knock us off the 1 seed line, even though in reality that wouldn't be that bad of a loss. And if we lose at any point in the acc tourney before the finals it again would almost assuredly drop us off the 1 line.
I realize a lot could happen with the 7 or so teams vying for a 1 seed between now and selection sunday, i just think loldevilz makes a valid point that we probably need to win out to be a 1 seed.

Acymetric
02-21-2011, 01:50 AM
Duke just returned to #1 in the Pomeroy Rankings.

That said, don't expect Duke to be #1 in the polls....most people who've revealed their ballots still have Duke 4-5 for some strange reason.

This was from the Dork Poll thread, but since I'm responding to the top 25 voting portion of the thread I figured I would put it in the thread for the top 25.

I think if only three of the four teams ahead of Duke would have lost Duke could have jumped the three and made it to #2 in the polls behind whoever else won their games this week. Since all four lost its almost like the voters are giving them all a pass, sort of a "it was just one of those weeks, they'll all be back to normal tomorrow" attitude.

Then again...who cares what voters say? I just care about what I see on the court...and what I saw (in the 2nd half) was pretty damn good :cool:

Kedsy
02-21-2011, 01:59 AM
that's pretty much what loldevilz said with the "or we need to win out" to get a number 1 seed part of their post. In order to win the acc regular season title we probably do need to win out because even though its possible they lose, unc's remaining schedule is by no means brutal and our chance at an outright regular season title will probably come down to the unc game. If we lose to temple it would knock us off the 1 seed line, even though in reality that wouldn't be that bad of a loss. And if we lose at any point in the acc tourney before the finals it again would almost assuredly drop us off the 1 line.
I realize a lot could happen with the 7 or so teams vying for a 1 seed between now and selection sunday, i just think loldevilz makes a valid point that we probably need to win out to be a 1 seed.

Well, I don't know whether losing the Temple game would knock us off the top line if we win the rest of our games, but it's possible you're right about that. You are not right that we have to win out to win the ACC regular season. If we lose to Va Tech for example, and then beat Clemson and UNC, we will win the regular season outright (even if UNC wins out until then, which personally I doubt they'll do). If we beat Va Tech and Clemson, we'll at least be co-ACC regular season champs no matter what happens in the UNC game, and we still got a #1 last year as co-regular season champs and ACC tourney champs.

So while it may seem semantic, I'm saying we can lose another game and still be a #1 seed. As long as that game isn't in the ACC tourney.

strawbs
02-21-2011, 02:26 AM
Well, I don't know whether losing the Temple game would knock us off the top line if we win the rest of our games, but it's possible you're right about that. You are not right that we have to win out to win the ACC regular season. If we lose to Va Tech for example, and then beat Clemson and UNC, we will win the regular season outright (even if UNC wins out until then, which personally I doubt they'll do). If we beat Va Tech and Clemson, we'll at least be co-ACC regular season champs no matter what happens in the UNC game, and we still got a #1 last year as co-regular season champs and ACC tourney champs.

So while it may seem semantic, I'm saying we can lose another game and still be a #1 seed. As long as that game isn't in the ACC tourney.

jeez, i really screwed up with thinking we needed to win out to win the regular season. :o I wasn't thinking straight and forgot we could lose a game as long as we beat unc. Thanks for pointing that out, because i was indeed wrong.
As far as a hypothetical temple loss being one that knocks us off the 1 line, i see it two ways. 1, it wouldn't be bad in the big picture because they are a ranked opponent and we would still have 6 more games (if we run the table in the acc tourney) to win and get us back into the 1 line. Its like college football its better to lose early then late. The other way i view a hypothetical temple loss, is that although it would be to a ranked team, the media would view it as a bad loss since we are the home team and favored to win by 13 (according to kenpom) and shouldnt lose to a team we are favored to beat at home at this point in the year. And they would drop us considerably in the ap poll. I don't know how much consideration the selection committee puts into the ap poll but i have to imagine that if we were ranked in the 6-8 range they wouldn't be too keen on giving us a 1 seed.
I think we both agree that picking up 1 loss somewhere shouldn't be that big of a deterrent in us getting a 1, because a 31-3 record and an acc regular season or co regular season champ with a 31-3 record and acc tourney victory should be more then enough to get a 1 seed. However with how the ap has voted this year, i really think any loss no matter who to, when, or by how much will hurt us more then anyone in the polls and hurt are chances for a 1 seed in the process.

Dukeface88
02-21-2011, 03:54 AM
This was from the Dork Poll thread, but since I'm responding to the top 25 voting portion of the thread I figured I would put it in the thread for the top 25.

I think if only three of the four teams ahead of Duke would have lost Duke could have jumped the three and made it to #2 in the polls behind whoever else won their games this week. Since all four lost its almost like the voters are giving them all a pass, sort of a "it was just one of those weeks, they'll all be back to normal tomorrow" attitude.

Then again...who cares what voters say? I just care about what I see on the court...and what I saw (in the 2nd half) was pretty damn good :cool:

Honestly, I'm kind of hoping we don't move in the polls. We've been coming out really flat at the start; feeling disrespected might give us more of a spark. I think we have the opportunity to really make a statement against Temple on Wednesday. If the broadcasters want to help out with bulletin board material, they're welcome to do so. As long as the selection committee doesn't listen to them, I'm fine with it

I think it will be interesting to see if there's a divergence between the coaches and the media this week. Seems like a lot of pundits will be trying to generate controversy. That's pretty much the only reason I can see someone picking, say, Notre Dame over us (lol @ Jeff Goodman)

JohnGalt
02-21-2011, 07:29 AM
I understand that the place is old and Kansas has had an outstanding program for as long as anyone. But, good grief, they have a chicken painted on the floor that takes up half the court.

Not only that, they had to go and make up a name for their chicken. What's a Jayhawk anyway? Do they live with the Wildcats?



At the beginning of the season how many of you would have believed me if I said St John's (by votes) and Temple would be ranked ahead of KState and MState this late in the season? Parity's one of the few certainties in college bball, but we've got it out the wazzoo this year. Sweet.

Indoor66
02-21-2011, 08:09 AM
And the golf is a whole heck of a lot better in Charleston.

But Cremins is a Tennis guy. He used to be K's doubles partner at ACC functions.

WVDUKEFAN
02-21-2011, 08:21 AM
I watched ESPN this morning and heard all of the "experts" make their pitch for the new No. 1 team in college basketball. Duke wasn't mentioned. That's OK. I just want us to keep playing hard and winning. It would be good if that one guy who plays guard for us with the injured toe could make it back. What's his name?

nocilla
02-21-2011, 08:24 AM
I think the thing that started me on this Bilas tirade was a few weeks ago when he made this statement about Allen Fieldhouse: "I thought the atmosphere was unbelievable. I've been here before, but it's just such an unbelievable place. It has such character. I can't say I've ever been in a better arena."
—Jay Bilas, ESPN announcer


Technically, Cameron is an Indoor Stadium. So maybe Allen Fieldhouse is the best arena.

On the other topic, I think beating Temple is very important. It would be a non-conference top 25 win which helps Duke's credentials as well as the rest of the ACC. If Duke were to lose, it would just further the idea that the ACC is terrible this year.

RoyalBlue08
02-21-2011, 08:45 AM
I don't know who is going to be #1, but I sure hope it isn't Duke. Other than a target on your back, I don't know that it has any value.

KyDevilinIL
02-21-2011, 08:48 AM
Yeah I'd be stunned if we're No. 1. Every national media nitwit I've seen or heard weigh in on the topic has bent him or herself into all sorts of odd shapes in an effort to keep Duke from jumping all of the Chosen Four.

Duke will be between Nos. 3 and 5 in the polls and will continue to be lumped in with SDSU and BYU on the two-seed level. Which is OK.

I'll take my chances with the team we've got right now as a No. 2 seed. And I don't know if Kyrie's coming back, but give him a handful of games before the NCAAT and each one of those No. 1 seeds will be praying it draws SDSU or BYU on Selection Sunday.

OldPhiKap
02-21-2011, 08:58 AM
Duke is overrated.

Duke's bracket will be the easiest.

All the calls go Duke's way.



Let the hater's hate.

Kfanarmy
02-21-2011, 09:00 AM
hasn't Duke's season this year begun to look eerily like last season?

alteran
02-21-2011, 09:02 AM
I watched ESPN this morning and heard all of the "experts" make their pitch for the new No. 1 team in college basketball. Duke wasn't mentioned. That's OK.

It's more than okay, it's very similar to last year. I enjoy being out of the discussion.

camion
02-21-2011, 09:02 AM
hasn't Duke's season this year begun to look eerily like last season?

One can hope.

MChambers
02-21-2011, 09:02 AM
hasn't Duke's season this year begun to look eerily like last season?
It has, but it would be nice to avoid a late season road loss!

rthomas
02-21-2011, 09:13 AM
hasn't Duke's season this year begun to look eerily like last season?

Last year we lost to Georgia Tech. Nolan had 9 points. Singler had 9. Kelly had 0.

CDu
02-21-2011, 09:16 AM
We probably won't be #1 this week. And it really doesn't matter. A mid-February poll is meaningless. We'll be among the top 3-5 in the polls (not that this matters either). We're going to be a #1 or #2 seed unless we fall apart down the stretch. At that point, we'll still have to win six games to win a championship.

Kfanarmy
02-21-2011, 09:24 AM
Last year we lost to Georgia Tech. Nolan had 9 points. Singler had 9. Kelly had 0.

I was speaking of the season on the whole, not each individual game.

NSDukeFan
02-21-2011, 09:36 AM
We probably won't be #1 this week. And it really doesn't matter. A mid-February poll is meaningless. We'll be among the top 3-5 in the polls (not that this matters either). We're going to be a #1 or #2 seed unless we fall apart down the stretch. At that point, we'll still have to win six games to win a championship.

I agree that it doesn't really matter where Duke is ranked this week. My bigger concern is how the team plays the next three weeks. The team just played its last easy game of the year last night. I am getting excited just thinking about the next few weeks of basketball. Where some other top teams had some great tests this weekend (and all came away with losses), Duke has four losable games in the next two weeks, and that is before the conference tournament. If Duke manages to win the ACC tournament and lose only one regular season game (I hope the team doesn't lose any. Pomeroy has that as about a 35% chance of happening), I have no doubt the team will have a #1 seed. There is an awful lot of great basketball to be played before then, however. I find it hilarious that people were talking about #1 seed "locks" before this weekend. There are certainly teams that have a great chance of securing a #1 seed, but they have to play the games first.

Billy Dat
02-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Having now seen most of the Top 10 play a couple of times each, this feels like the most wide open March Madness in years. Think about St. Johns, a team that is not ranked (although should be by later today). Does anyone think they couldn't win six in a row? I think that bodes well for us. At the same time, it feels at least a week early to try and read the tea leaves. We won't really know where we stand until the final buzzer at the Dean Dome - hopefully +4 games in the W column.

flyingdutchdevil
02-21-2011, 09:57 AM
I agree that it doesn't really matter where Duke is ranked this week. My bigger concern is how the team plays the next three weeks. The team just played its last easy game of the year last night.

Second to last easy game. Pretty sure that #16 seed / #1 seed game won't be very challenging...

;)

NSDukeFan
02-21-2011, 10:41 AM
Second to last easy game. Pretty sure that #16 seed / #1 seed game won't be very challenging...

;)

I stand corrected.

-jk
02-21-2011, 10:51 AM
Second to last easy game. Pretty sure that #16 seed / #1 seed game won't be very challenging...

;)

And that sort of attitude leads to the odd Mississippi Valley State game. I'd rather take them all seriously.

-jk

SuperTurkey
02-21-2011, 11:14 AM
But Cremins is a Tennis guy. He used to be K's doubles partner at ACC functions.

Two ain't mutually excusive. He and Ol' Roy are members of my dad's club in Charleston.

Kedsy
02-21-2011, 12:30 PM
jeez, i really screwed up with thinking we needed to win out to win the regular season. :o I wasn't thinking straight and forgot we could lose a game as long as we beat unc. Thanks for pointing that out, because i was indeed wrong.
As far as a hypothetical temple loss being one that knocks us off the 1 line, i see it two ways. 1, it wouldn't be bad in the big picture because they are a ranked opponent and we would still have 6 more games (if we run the table in the acc tourney) to win and get us back into the 1 line. Its like college football its better to lose early then late. The other way i view a hypothetical temple loss, is that although it would be to a ranked team, the media would view it as a bad loss since we are the home team and favored to win by 13 (according to kenpom) and shouldnt lose to a team we are favored to beat at home at this point in the year. And they would drop us considerably in the ap poll. I don't know how much consideration the selection committee puts into the ap poll but i have to imagine that if we were ranked in the 6-8 range they wouldn't be too keen on giving us a 1 seed.
I think we both agree that picking up 1 loss somewhere shouldn't be that big of a deterrent in us getting a 1, because a 31-3 record and an acc regular season or co regular season champ with a 31-3 record and acc tourney victory should be more then enough to get a 1 seed. However with how the ap has voted this year, i really think any loss no matter who to, when, or by how much will hurt us more then anyone in the polls and hurt are chances for a 1 seed in the process.

Well, I said it might seem semantic. But really with only four games left in the regular season, I think there's a big difference between "winning out" and going 3-1. Maybe that's just me.

I agree with everything else you say. The AP poll could have influence, especially considering the RPI isn't loving us as much as it usually does and the committee seems to pay a lot less attention to Sagarin and Pomeroy.