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Chris Randolph
02-11-2011, 09:36 AM
Anyone else feel like Kyle has been getting the shaft from the officials of late? Hansborough used to flop and flail all over the place as a senior and get all the calls. Kyle is pretty dramatic at times when he gets hit, but the fact is he is getting hit but doesn't get the calls. Then when he is on defense he gets called for ticky tack stuff.

Any thoughts on this?

mkline09
02-11-2011, 09:39 AM
I'm not particluarly worried. It happens but of course I'm not one to point the finger at the refs as an excuse for things like some of our friends 8 miles down the road.

Kyle sacrificed offense for defense. The important thing is he stays aggressive. He'll get some calls and some he won't get. It will all equal out. K's going to tell him to stay agressive and keep shooting.

In one sequence when I think Nolan drove and got fouled, he kicked the ball to Singler who buried a three but it didn't count. I'd have taken the three cause I think Nolan missed the second foul shot.

nocilla
02-11-2011, 09:43 AM
I think it may just have been that for one game the refs called it loosely. I don't recall him getting fouled that much in previous games where he didn't get the calls.

mkline09
02-11-2011, 09:50 AM
I think it may just have been that for one game the refs called it loosely. I don't recall him getting fouled that much in previous games where he didn't get the calls.

The refs were kind of hard to figure out. They called some charges that looked like blocks and blocks that looked like charges. It was on both sides. Carolina fans will have you belive since they got called for more fouls (yet shot more free throws) that it is part of this huge pro-Duke conspiracy. The bottom line is and I looked up the numbers prior to Wednesday's game Duke had averaged about 3 more fouls per game in the last 10 Duke-UNC games. Only twice in that time frame had Duke not been called for more fouls and one of those times both teams had the same number of fouls.

It is all about trends and how the game flows timeing of fouls and most of it is perception. But when you look at the numbers in isolation there isn't a significant disparity one way or the other.

MChambers
02-11-2011, 09:51 AM
I think it may just have been that for one game the refs called it loosely. I don't recall him getting fouled that much in previous games where he didn't get the calls.

I actually thought the same thing happened in the State game. Early on, Kyle made a great drive to the hoop, got bumped solidly in mid-air, made a reverse layup despite the bump, and there was no whistle. There were a few other instances, too. Of course, the refs had a hard job with that game, because State played so poorly and Duke put the game away in the first half.

Chris Randolph
02-11-2011, 09:54 AM
My thoughts on Kyle not getting calls is based on most of the season. He has attempted 95 free throws on the year, just under 4 attempts a game. For a guy who crashes the boards, drives the ball in the lane and posts up, you'd think he'd have more attempts; especially with his overall style of play being described by many as a "warrior" or "fearless"... plus he is so good and a senior (lets be honest, good seniors on good teams typically get the calls)

Lid
02-11-2011, 09:54 AM
I don't think there's a conspiracy or anything, but we've noticed also over many games that he doesn't seem to get fouls called with what appears to be a lot of contact, compared to other Duke players and players on the opposing team. He does gesture to the officials occasionally after it happens, but the UNC game was the first time I've seen him be really obvious about asking for a call.

The current hypotheses in our family as to why this is happening:

The refs know Kyle is made of iron, so they figure fouls don't really give the defense an advantage.
Kyle's skin tone blends in with the floor, so the refs genuinely don't see him (this one doesn't explain why they see him to call fouls on his defense, though).


I've never been a fan of certain players getting more "respect" from the refs, i.e. drawing fouls more than the average bear, so I guess the positive spin is that Kyle definitely doesn't have to worry about having an unfair advantage.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-11-2011, 11:15 AM
In the first half, Kyle got solidly hacked on the arms on two drives to the basket with no fouls called with the ball turning over to the holes. Kyle looked at the ref on one play and said something to him on the second. It wasn't until he was taken down to the floor late in the second half that he finally got to go to the foul line and shoot free throws.

At least they didn't call the ticky-tac fouls on either team for playing tight defense out in the mid court area. That was a good thing - let the teams play; don't get everyone into foul trouble 6 minutes into the game.

DevilWearsPrada
02-11-2011, 11:24 AM
The current hypotheses in our family as to why this is happening:

The refs know Kyle is made of iron, so they figure fouls don't really give the defense an advantage.
Kyle's skin tone blends in with the floor, so the refs genuinely don't see him (this one doesn't explain why they see him to call fouls on his defense, though).


DO you think KYLE should get SPRAY TANNED before every game? Like the dancers on Dancing with the Stars? Kyle is ivory snow white. Does he blend into the floor? I love that Kyle Singler, is a Warrior and a Leader. If I were walking thru a MINE FIELD, I would want to be on the SINGLER SQUAD. Kyle just gets it!! A mild mannered Warrior leader with character, and bulldog tenacity!!!

SCMatt33
02-11-2011, 11:52 AM
I have no real clue what the refs are thinking but from what I've seen, I always think a lot has to do with style whether a player gets called or not. Use Kyle and Hansbrough as an example. One of Kyles most common moves is to drive right across the lane, take contact around the block and come off contact to put up a layup attempt. Very rarely does Kyle get a call here because he is moving away from the rim during his drive and through contact. One of Hansbrough's most common moves was to get the ball in the center of the lane (either by pass or rebound), step straight at a guy between him and the rim, make contact chest to chest, and put up a little push shot. Very often, Hansbrough would get the call because he went straight at the rim. By making contact with his chest and not his shoulder, he would almost never get an offensive foul, as he hadn't built up a head of steam. For defenders trying to block the shot, the tendency is to step into a jump to get more height. This is where they often lose verticality and get a foul called. If the defender stays still or jumps straight up, he often won't get high enough to block the shot.

Let me now compare drives from Nolan, who does get more foul calls. Here is the picture from Luke Winn's power ranking that show Seth and Nolan's second half shot chart.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.element/img/4.0/global/swapper/201102/110210.15.jpg

Nolan's drives are all toward the rim, and he got a few calls accordingly. I could be wrong, but it always seems that the refs will tend to reward "strong" plays towards the rim as opposed to "weak" finesse plays that fall away from the rim.

DevilWearsPrada
02-11-2011, 11:56 AM
MY Basketball IQ is elevating. Thanks for all the graphs, I feel like I am sitting on the Duke bench!

Kyle got fouled several times, during the Unc game, and refs did not blow whistle. Very unfair to Kyle, getting whacked, and no blow from the STRIPED men. ARE they Blind at times, or just dont see, because, those BOys are tall, and most refs are under 6 feet tall.

UrinalCake
02-11-2011, 11:58 AM
Agree that the UNC game was called loosely on both sides. I noticed Kelly in particular did a good job of adjusting and would go after rebounds hard without worrying about getting called for a push. As far as fouls, even though we got called for more of them, UNC was in more foul "trouble" as far as key guys accumulating them, so it affected their game more. I tend to pay closer attention to how fouls affect playing time and player substitutions rather than total number of fouls.

-bdbd
02-11-2011, 12:04 PM
I posted something about the reffing and the Kerlina view of the game (D"uke got all the calls." of course...) over on the UNC post-game string (post #243). The call in the first half where Kyle drove in from the left side of the bucket, right in front of the Duke bench, and was bumped by two different defenders and had a turnover, causing K to call a timeout to "converse" with the refs... interestingly Gminski (TV color analyst) said he thought Kyle initiated the contact, so it was a good call (but I personally thought he missed the initial contact by the other defender). Look, the game was called very loosely, and I think we got a couple of favorable calls too (e.g. one or two of those first-half charging calls against UNC actually had a Duke defender still moving). But in the end, the FT's and foul totals were almost identical (one in favor of Duke, but that's only after 5 UNC semi-intentional fouls in the last 2:07of the game). So I'd call it a wash. And, frankly, a game with more contact allowed probably favored the boys in Royal Blue. So no overall complaints here. Please note: K and team did a MUCH better job of adjusting to the reffing style in-game and not letting the non-calls get to them than did Williams and the heels. That was an important factor in the outcome.

Earlier post re the NC view of the reffing:


...(complaining about the reffing) was being said by your fellow faded-blue bretheren in droves over on IC. (Author note: I would encourage everyone to occasionally lurk on an opposing fan website during a game just to hear/see comments from "the other perspective." At a minimum it is quite entertaining, and I think can be very educational.) IC had a whole string dedicated last night to "how the refs are stealing the game from us." As well, the in-game discussion string seemed to spiral down into constant/majority comments whining about the refs.... Dozens of posts along these lines: "What, tell me why THAT wasn't a foul as Marshall took that shot??!" "What's the foul total in the second half??" "ANYBODY reasonable with eyes can see the zebras are stealing this one from us!" "Someone needs to send a tape of this ridiculous game to the ACC director of officials for review..." "Strickland did NOT foul him on that play...it was just a typical Duke (spelled with 2 o's of course) flop!" And of course not a single acknowledgement of ANY favorable calls.

The very rare rational poster got shouted down or ignored if he tried to point out that (1) the foul and FT totals actually favored UNC for almost the entire game -- until the five semi-intentional UNC fouls in the last 2:07 -- or that (2) it was the players' failure to answer/sink shots in the 2nd half that really was deciding the game.

I point this out not to beat up on UNC fans or the frequent over-the-top irrationality that is often the IC board -- lord knows we/I sometimes will complain about calls not going our way (though not, I would argue, to the same degree of focus, belligerence, irrationality) -- but it is very interesting/telling to see how different groups of fans choose to see the same events very differently. On this board, many folks complained in the first half about how KS was getting hammered and the refs were contributing greatly to the debacle - and many others certainly felt the same way - but over on IC there wasn't a single mention (not that I saw at least) of calls going in favor of their team, nor hardly any arguments explaining why a certain call should have gone against them. Like I said, fans can be really entertaining.

Bilas once said on ESPN that at the first TV timeout (4 minutes into a game) K would always start in the huddle talking about how the refs were calling the game... "and here's how we're going to adjust..." I've long thought that this had a lot to do with the MD-UNC complaints about Duke supposedly "getting all of the calls." K is just very good (usually, not always) at getting his teams to adjust to the reffing style of individual games. I think it proved out last night too, even if it did take 20 minutes to finally adjust. Roy's boys didn't adjust as well, per 'Wheat.

The rematch will be interesting. .....Should be fun in any event. (But I'm sure the refs will be favoring the other team - no mater which team you're rooting for!!!)

UrinalCake
02-11-2011, 12:09 PM
Here's a more detailed breakdown of how Smith scored his points:

1867

Kfanarmy
02-11-2011, 12:23 PM
I have no real clue what the refs are thinking but from what I've seen, I always think a lot has to do with style whether a player gets called or not. Use Kyle and Hansbrough as an example. One of Kyles most common moves is to drive right across the lane, take contact around the block and come off contact to put up a layup attempt. Very rarely does Kyle get a call here because he is moving away from the rim during his drive and through contact. One of Hansbrough's most common moves was to get the ball in the center of the lane (either by pass or rebound), .
take four or five steps without dribbling while flailing his arms as though hailing a cab from inside a smoke filled gin joint
straight at a guy between him and the rim, make contact chest to chest, and put up a little push shot. Very often, Hansbrough would get the call because he went straight at the rim. By making contact with his chest and not his shoulder, he would almost never get an offensive foul, as he hadn't built up a head of steam. For defenders trying to block the shot, the tendency is to step into a jump to get more height. This is where they often lose verticality and get a foul called. If the defender stays still or jumps straight up, he often won't get high enough to block the shot.

Let me now compare drives from Nolan, who does get more foul calls. Here is the picture from Luke Winn's power ranking that show Seth and Nolan's second half shot chart.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.element/img/4.0/global/swapper/201102/110210.15.jpg

Nolan's drives are all toward the rim, and he got a few calls accordingly. I could be wrong, but it always seems that the refs will tend to reward "strong" plays towards the rim as opposed to "weak" finesse plays that fall away from the rim.

Whew, No thanks required, just trying to help out.

Bojangles4Eva
02-11-2011, 12:23 PM
Here's a more detailed breakdown of how Smith scored his points:

1867

I would not be suprised if Roy draws up this exact play at each timeout (note the timeout will never be called by him), reflecting the extent of his X and O knowledge....Either that or the suprise 5-man bench blitz (but he's been good about that since they have started playing better).

gus
02-11-2011, 02:19 PM
Look, the game was called very loosely, and I think we got a couple of favorable calls too (e.g. one or two of those first-half charging calls against UNC actually had a Duke defender still moving).

Please stop perpetuating the erroneous notion that a defender must be stationary in order for it to be an offensive foul. This is simply not true.

"The guard may shift to maintain his/her position in the path of the dribbler, provided that the player who is guarding neither charges into the dribbler nor otherwise causes contact."

Neals384
02-11-2011, 02:27 PM
I think we got a couple of favorable calls too (e.g. one or two of those first-half charging calls against UNC actually had a Duke defender still moving).

Right, Kyle was still moving and should have been called for a block, but the call was charging.

In the 2nd half, Kyle pulled down a rebound, and already had both feet back on the ground when Zeller landed on top of him. An obviouos foul if there ever was one. Kyle just shook Zeller off, but his shot was blocked by Henson.

So, one bad call each way. But I think overall Kyle was jobbed more often than he was favored.

DukieInBrasil
02-11-2011, 02:38 PM
In the 2nd half, Kyle pulled down a rebound, and already had both feet back on the ground when Zeller landed on top of him. An obviouos foul if there ever was one. Kyle just shook Zeller off, but his shot was blocked by Henson.
That's the play that sticks out in my mind. How in the world is that not a foul? I mean, Zeller landed ON TOP OF Singler while KS was stationary and TZ had moved into KS's vertical space. Had Singler fallen to the ground due to the contact he probably would have been called for traveling.

rasputin
02-11-2011, 02:47 PM
That's the play that sticks out in my mind. How in the world is that not a foul? I mean, Zeller landed ON TOP OF Singler while KS was stationary and TZ had moved into KS's vertical space. Had Singler fallen to the ground due to the contact he probably would have been called for traveling.

Had Singler fallen to the floor due to the contact, Daniel Ewing would have gotten a T.

jv001
02-11-2011, 03:04 PM
Several times this year I've noticed that when a player shoots the ball and there is contact, the official waits to see if the ball goes in. If the shot is made no whistle, but if the shot is missed then the official blows his whistle. I've always believed that a foul is a foul whether the basket is made or not and the player should get "and one". In other words a chance at an old fashion 3 point play. And I believe the officials were pretty consistent in the game. Go Duke!

BigDuke6
02-11-2011, 03:19 PM
Had Singler fallen to the floor due to the contact, Daniel Ewing would have gotten a T.

I don't post very much, hell I can't remember the last time I logged in but I read a lot. This is priceless. You owe me one keyboard, two monitors (dual screen), one mouse and one cup of tea. These are the items that will be docked from my pay, minus the tea of course.


Carry on......

DonnyDevil
02-11-2011, 03:28 PM
That's the play that sticks out in my mind. How in the world is that not a foul? I mean, Zeller landed ON TOP OF Singler while KS was stationary and TZ had moved into KS's vertical space. Had Singler fallen to the ground due to the contact he probably would have been called for traveling.

I believe this is the photo of Zeller landing on Singler with no foul call. I hate the constant crying about refs from UNC fans (they have close to 10 threads on IC now dedicated to this). I think Kyle gets his fair share of calls as well as no calls (in his favor) most of the time, Wed night was just not his night on offense. This instance was a rather obvious foul not called in my opinion. You win some you lose some in regards to the calls you get. GTHC!!

[ATTACH]1868

jv001
02-11-2011, 03:39 PM
I believe this is the photo of Zeller landing on Singler with no foul call. I hate the constant crying about refs from UNC fans (they have close to 10 threads on IC now dedicated to this). I think Kyle gets his fair share of calls as well as no calls (in his favor) most of the time, Wed night was just not his night on offense. This instance was a rather obvious foul not called in my opinion. You win some you lose some in regards to the calls you get. GTHC!!

[ATTACH]1868

around 75% of tarheel fans are either cry-babys, whiners or both. I can't bring myself to go on ic. Way too much vulgarity and well crying. Go Duke!

weezie
02-11-2011, 03:43 PM
My thoughts on Kyle not getting calls is based on most of the season. He has attempted 95 free throws on the year, just under 4 attempts a game. For a guy who crashes the boards, drives the ball in the lane and posts up, you'd think he'd have more attempts; especially with his overall style of play being described by many as a "warrior" or "fearless"... plus he is so good and a senior (lets be honest, good seniors on good teams typically get the calls)

Man, you took the words off my keyboard. I said that the other night, too. Kyle's not a whiner and he doesn't flop, he certainly did have the right to say something to those refs and K was right to push the discussion. But, those refs, well, they are a rather mercurial bunch. They're mostly too small to really see what's going on sometimes, just MOO.

hudlow
02-11-2011, 03:53 PM
I believe this is the photo of Zeller landing on Singler with no foul call. I hate the constant crying about refs from UNC fans (they have close to 10 threads on IC now dedicated to this). I think Kyle gets his fair share of calls as well as no calls (in his favor) most of the time, Wed night was just not his night on offense. This instance was a rather obvious foul not called in my opinion. You win some you lose some in regards to the calls you get. GTHC!!

[ATTACH]1868

Wasn't this about the time Ol' Roy was supposedly having one of his "fainting" spells?

It's the old distraction play...

elvis14
02-11-2011, 03:56 PM
I believe this is the photo of Zeller landing on Singler with no foul call. I hate the constant crying about refs from UNC fans (they have close to 10 threads on IC now dedicated to this). I think Kyle gets his fair share of calls as well as no calls (in his favor) most of the time, Wed night was just not his night on offense. This instance was a rather obvious foul not called in my opinion. You win some you lose some in regards to the calls you get. GTHC!!

[ATTACH]1868

DonnyDevil, thanks for attaching that picture....that was the call where I finally just lost it. Reading various places online, UNC@CH only lost the game because the refs fueled our comeback by allowing us to hammer their players.

Enough about the UNC@CH game, however. I have noticed the trend (not a conspiracy) where Kyle just isn't getting calls on the offensive end. I haven't felt that he gets treated unfairly on the defensive end. The picture that DonnyDevil posted is the ultimate example of they way Kyle's been treated this year. He used an up fake, got his defender off the ground....the defender landed on Kyle's back as he was going up...no call! He hasn't got those calls all year long. I don't know why but I don't like it because it makes a huge difference both in getting to the FT line and accumulating fouls on the other player/team. In a couple of game, I noticed that when Kyle got hacked they actually called a foul on Shavlik Randolph.

gus
02-11-2011, 04:00 PM
Right, Kyle was still moving and should have been called for a block, but the call was charging.

One of the most common rules misconception amongst fans is that the defensive player must be stationary. That is not how the rule is written. ibid

If it's the play I remember, that was definitely a charge.

TwiceDuke
02-11-2011, 04:13 PM
(Being new, I say this very humbly)...

I haven't found myself complaining much about the officiating this year.

Kyle plays a very difficult position - at least from a practical standpoint. Many cite the fact that Kyle is a match-up problem as being a source only of positives. But the back end to Kyle's size is that referees (subconsciously) note his advantage.

While it is not supposed to be true, refs (seem to) often make calls based on "equity." The best example is when a shot is blocked near the rim and then bounces out of bounds. In a fair number of blocked shots, it is the offensive player whose hand winds up pressing the ball toward the baseline. But refs consistently award the ball back to the offensive team; after all, it was the defender who "caused" the ball to go out of bounds by redirecting the shooter's momentum.

I subscribe to the theory that the same is true with individual match-ups. When Kyle is bruising around on the inside, he often has a shorter player guarding him (using the mismatch to his advantage). Kyle's size, in that instance, is a disadvantage on the offensive end AND on the defensive end. You just don't see many calls on little guys who are trying to defend larger post players (because the larger player "should" be able to play through the contact); but at the same time, when a bigger player uses his body to gain an advantage defensively, then it puts the referee in the position of stoppping a "bully."

Theoretically, then, Kyle should be receiving the benefit of the doubt when he is playing against a larger player, no? But in those situations, Kyle often plays on the perimeter, and the likelihood of a foul is reduced. Watch the number of times that Kyle begins to penetrate and then pulls up for the fall-away jumper (which is an excellent addition to his arsenal, IMO). The fall-away, by design, reduces contact and therefore reduces the likelihood of getting called.

What my theory does NOT explain is why Zeller "got away" with jumping atop Singler. Just as a guess, had Singler managed to muscle the ball up to the rim, he would have received foul shot(s). The contact would have been exaggerated by his explosion towards the basket. Instead, he absorbed Zeller's contact, hesitated, AND THEN went for the basket. While Zeller's contact created an advantage for Barnes to step up from behind and block Singler, Singler could have gone straight up with the ball in the first place, sacrificed the ball, and drawn the foul on Zeller.

I don't agree with the call. But at the same time, having played the post myself, the easiest way to pick up the foul is to not hesitate. Kyle hesitated and tried to get three points. At that point, referees will often swallow their whistle (and we actually benefit from the same thing when Mason lands on people on the other end).

peterjswift
02-11-2011, 04:26 PM
(Being new, I say this very humbly)...



Great post. I think this is a great explanation.

Greg_Newton
02-11-2011, 05:07 PM
Please stop perpetuating the erroneous notion that a defender must be stationary in order for it to be an offensive foul. This is simply not true.

"The guard may shift to maintain his/her position in the path of the dribbler, provided that the player who is guarding neither charges into the dribbler nor otherwise causes contact."

I can't seem to find the official rulebook anywhere, but I'm curious - is it not the case that if the defensive player moves laterally into the offensive player's path after the offensive player leaves the ground, it is a blocking foul?

uh_no
02-11-2011, 06:05 PM
I can't seem to find the official rulebook anywhere, but I'm curious - is it not the case that if the defensive player moves laterally into the offensive player's path after the offensive player leaves the ground, it is a blocking foul?

yes.

g-money
02-11-2011, 07:03 PM
I have no real clue what the refs are thinking but from what I've seen, I always think a lot has to do with style whether a player gets called or not. Use Kyle and Hansbrough as an example. One of Kyles most common moves is to drive right across the lane, take contact around the block and come off contact to put up a layup attempt. Very rarely does Kyle get a call here because he is moving away from the rim during his drive and through contact. One of Hansbrough's most common moves was to get the ball in the center of the lane (either by pass or rebound), step straight at a guy between him and the rim, make contact chest to chest, and put up a little push shot. Very often, Hansbrough would get the call because he went straight at the rim. By making contact with his chest and not his shoulder, he would almost never get an offensive foul, as he hadn't built up a head of steam. For defenders trying to block the shot, the tendency is to step into a jump to get more height. This is where they often lose verticality and get a foul called. If the defender stays still or jumps straight up, he often won't get high enough to block the shot.

Let me now compare drives from Nolan, who does get more foul calls. Here is the picture from Luke Winn's power ranking that show Seth and Nolan's second half shot chart.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.element/img/4.0/global/swapper/201102/110210.15.jpg

Nolan's drives are all toward the rim, and he got a few calls accordingly. I could be wrong, but it always seems that the refs will tend to reward "strong" plays towards the rim as opposed to "weak" finesse plays that fall away from the rim.

I agree with a lot of the analysis in this thread. I certainly think that big men in college & pro basketball are unfairly required to take a lot more of a beating than guards are before a referee will call a foul.

But one of SCMatt's points particularly hits the nail on the head in my opinion. From what I've seen so far this season, Kyle's drives rarely end up right at the rim or with him heading directly towards the basket.

This is where I think Kyle would benefit from a little bit more confidence in dribbling to his left. To my amateur eye, it seems like defenders are all shading him to his right, so that when he drives to the right, the defender is in perfect position to force him away from the basket. If he figured out how to use a change of direction dribble to the left in the middle of a drive - or perhaps even just pump fake right and then go left at the beginning of the drive - it would help keep defenders honest and could get him some direct paths to the rim.

I guarantee that he works on these right-to-left moves all the time in practice; now he's just got to try one of them in a game and have it work a couple times to gain confidence. If he does, it would be a thing of beauty, much like Mason's newly found jump hook.

My two cents. Which won't buy you a whole lot nowadays.

gus
02-11-2011, 07:05 PM
I can't seem to find the official rulebook anywhere, but I'm curious - is it not the case that if the defensive player moves laterally into the offensive player's path after the offensive player leaves the ground, it is a blocking foul?

What I was responding to was the notion that the defense player must be standing still. I hear announcers say this, and fans complain about this when a foul is correctly called on the offensive player. "Battier was still moving - Duke got away with one there!" ugh.

But to answer your question:

Not necessarily.

Full rule:


RULING: Either player may be responsible, but the greater responsibility
shall be that of the dribbler when the player who is guarding conforms to
the following principles that officials shall use in reaching a decision. The
defensive player shall be assumed to have attained a guarding position
when the defensive player is in the dribbler’s path facing him or her. When
the defensive player jumps into position, both feet must return to the
floor after the jump before he or she has attained a guarding position. No
specific stance or distance shall be required. The guard may shift to maintain
his or her position in the path of the dribbler, provided that the player
who is guarding does not charge into the dribbler nor otherwise cause
contact. The responsibility of the dribbler for contact shall not shift merely
because the player who is guarding turns or ducks to absorb shock when
contact caused by the dribbler is imminent. The player who is guarding
shall not cause contact by moving under or in front of a passer or thrower
after the passer or thrower is in the air with his or her feet off the floor.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-3940-2010-mens-womens-basketball-case-book-2-year-publication.aspx

It is possible to move without causing the contact.

Biscuit King
02-21-2011, 04:49 PM
Kyle Singler's free throw rate (FTA/FGA) by year:

2008: 30.5%
2009: 36.9%
2010: 37.8%
2011: 27.1%

Discuss.

Greg_Newton
02-21-2011, 05:39 PM
It is possible to move without causing the contact.

Unless you're just referring to a play where there's no contact at all, I would think it is pretty close to impossible to move laterally into the offensive player's path after he has left his feet without causing the contact. I would think that, by definition, that would be causing the contact.

dukeblue4ever
02-21-2011, 07:31 PM
Kyle Singler's free throw rate (FTA/FGA) by year:

2008: 30.5%
2009: 36.9%
2010: 37.8%
2011: 27.1%

Discuss.Keep in mind that in 2009 (IIRC), Kyle played a much more interior-oriented role during every game because we had no bigs.

pfrduke
02-21-2011, 07:32 PM
Keep in mind that in 2009 (IIRC), Kyle played a much more interior-oriented role during every game because we had no bigs.

Which doesn't explain 2010, and his even higher FTA/FGA.

dukeblue4ever
02-21-2011, 07:45 PM
Which doesn't explain 2010, and his even higher FTA/FGA.You're right, I misread the post. I thought that the 2010 said 27.8% instead of 37.8%. At times Kyle has not really taken a commanding role in breaking down the defense and drawing fouls like he did towards the end of last season, but 10% change is a huge difference.

NovaScotian
02-21-2011, 08:55 PM
Had Singler fallen to the floor due to the contact, Daniel Ewing would have gotten a T.

can someone explain this? i am a daniel ewing lover and i wish i was in on the joke. it sounds very funny.

Newton_14
02-21-2011, 09:00 PM
can someone explain this? i am a daniel ewing lover and i wish i was in on the joke. it sounds very funny.

Daniel seemed to get a technical for the strangest of reasons, and they seemed to come regularly in his career. Take for example the Wake games. Chris Paul slams Ewing's head to the floor, so the ref gives Ewing a technical foul! The dude could frown and would get t'd up or so it seemed.

Thus the running joke. Sort of akin to the old Jerry Tarkanian line that Kentucky had racked up 5 new infractions, so the NCAA responded by putting Cleveland St on probation...

ArnieMc
02-22-2011, 03:27 PM
can someone explain this? i am a daniel ewing lover and i wish i was in on the joke. it sounds very funny.I think the first one was in a Maryland game. Ikene Ebekwe deliberately hit Ewing in the head with an elbow during a timeout. Bob Donato called a Technical on Ewing and then refused to check the monitor to see what actually happened. Coach Krzyzewski has used this joke on several occasions when asked about questionable officiating, e.g., "I'm surprised they didn't call a Technical on Ewing." This was after Ewing had graduated.

94duke
02-22-2011, 03:56 PM
I think the first one was in a Maryland game. Ikene Ebekwe deliberately hit Ewing in the head with an elbow during a timeout. Bob Donato called a Technical on Ewing and then refused to check the monitor to see what actually happened. Coach Krzyzewski has used this joke on several occasions when asked about questionable officiating, e.g., "I'm surprised they didn't call a Technical on Ewing." This was after Ewing had graduated.

Daniel Ewing also got a "T" for "showing his jersey" to the camera after a break-away. One quick pop of his jersey, and BAM! Technical!

weezie
02-22-2011, 04:04 PM
Daniel Ewing also got a "T" for "showing his jersey" to the camera after a break-away. One quick pop of his jersey, and BAM! Technical!

Heavens to Betsy!
Thank goodness young Jimmer came along during a far more lenient today!
He'd have been one spanked fellow back then!

stickdog
02-22-2011, 04:05 PM
Singler averaged 5.2 free throw attempts per game last season.

So far this season, he is averaging 3.7 free throw attempts per game.

In Kyle's last three ACC road games, he has gotten to the line a grand total of one time.

Last season, Kyle got to the line more than 4 times in 11 of 19 ACC games, including 6 games with 7 or more free throw attempts.

This season, Kyle has never gotten to the line more than 6 times in an ACC game, and has gotten to the line more than 4 times in just 3 of 13 ACC games.

HK Dukie
02-23-2011, 08:39 AM
I feel so bad for Daniel. He was a target all season long and I still have no idea why. Seems like such a good guy too.

I hope it doesn't happen to Kyle. I dont think it will.

wilson
02-23-2011, 09:15 AM
can someone explain this? i am a daniel ewing lover and i wish i was in on the joke. it sounds very funny.It's just a reference to the stretch Daniel went through for a season or two where it seemed he got T'd up every time he sneezed.