PDA

View Full Version : Does the Women's Duke Basketball team lack mental and physical toughness?



Class of '94
02-08-2011, 05:31 PM
I would love to hear feedback on this. And let me just say that I am a fan of the women's team, and I appreciate what Coach P and her staff has done with this team. The team has come a long way in terms of improvement under Coach P. But after watching the UNC game and UConn games along with a plethora of other games this year as well as in past years under Coach P and Coach G, I have to wonder if the team is soft mentally and physically when it comes to playing the upper echelon teams on the road or at neurtal sites. Yes, the team seems offensively challenged at times but I wonder if it goes deeper than that. Jasmine seemed to confirm the lack of toughness with her most recent comments after the loss to Carolina on Monday (see goduke.com, WBB section or http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/11307590/article-Quick-start-vs--UNC-wasn-t-enough-for-Duke?instance=main_article for example) in which she talked about the team should not have to be coached to fight and that the team has to change in this regard. The ladies were completly "punked" by UConn and totally unraveled at UNC when UNC made their run and surged ahead. Looking at the past, it seemed like Coach G spent a lot of time trying to work on increasing the mental toughness of the team and Coach P has worked on increasing the physical toughness of the team in hopes that the increased physical toughness would improve the team's mental toughness.

I could be totally off-base, but again I wanted to get the opinions of others who have watched the women play.

uh_no
02-08-2011, 05:48 PM
I think we need to remember that this is a very good basketball team. They lost by 2 to another very good team, UNC, on the road, and nearly tied it on the last possession. I'd say thats a tough performance. If Duke wants to win the title, certainly they need to be tougher, but that's true of every team not named uconn, stanford, or baylor (and maybe a handful of other teams). But this team can certainly make it to the last weekend with a favorable draw. The game last night showed what a lot of us knew, that our womens team is on par with the handful of teams between 5 and 15 or so in the country. More important than their toughness (they have showed plenty in a lot of close games this year, though, I think is a more cohesive idea of what to do on offense. They can be slow if they want, play very methodical like our mens team last year, but they need to make a commitment to it and need to be able to play phenomenal defense.

There's certainly work to do before march, but I don't question these kid's will to win.

CameronBornAndBred
02-08-2011, 05:59 PM
I would say an emphatic no. Duke is one of the most physical teams that you can run into, and if you've seen us pull out several close wins (many coming from behind late), you would not question their mental toughness either. What you can question fairly is their fundamental ability to shoot a layup. If they get that down, they will be beyone dangerous. Btw, I'm not trying to be funny there...that's just a fact of this team; they have poor skills under the basket, it's been that way for a while.

Class of '94
02-08-2011, 06:08 PM
I think we need to remember that this is a very good basketball team. They lost by 2 to another very good team, UNC, on the road, and nearly tied it on the last possession. I'd say thats a tough performance. If Duke wants to win the title, certainly they need to be tougher, but that's true of every team not named uconn, stanford, or baylor (and maybe a handful of other teams). But this team can certainly make it to the last weekend with a favorable draw. The game last night showed what a lot of us knew, that our womens team is on par with the handful of teams between 5 and 15 or so in the country. More important than their toughness (they have showed plenty in a lot of close games this year, though, I think is a more cohesive idea of what to do on offense. They can be slow if they want, play very methodical like our mens team last year, but they need to make a commitment to it and need to be able to play phenomenal defense.

There's certainly work to do before march, but I don't question these kid's will to win.

I would never question the team's will to win either; but the close games that they won against top 10 competition were at home; and the close road games were won against less talented teams like NC State. I think this team has the talent to play with anyone in the country; but I think the lack of aggresiveness by the team overall against UConn and discipline on defense against UNC points at least to a level of mental toughness that might be lacking. I think the team still has to work on truly believing that they can beat any team in the country. Maybe, making a real commitment to a certain style of offensive play, like you suggested, might help.

miramar
02-08-2011, 06:12 PM
WBB stayed close in an away game against another ranked team, and were one simple bounce pass (to an open player, no less) away from tying the score at the end. They have also won three games by three points or less, which suggests to me that they are mentally tough. The rebounding and blocked shots statistics also suggest that they are physically tough.

So I would say that the problem is not toughness but rather the same offensive limitations as the three previous seasons. Duke is a good team, but no elite club has their top three scorers shooting less than 40%. Baylor's top three scorers shoot 45% or more, while UConn's top four and Stanford's top five do so.

I guess the mystery is that presumably all, or almost all, top players should be good shooters coming in, so I can't explain why this has happened for four years.

Class of '94
02-08-2011, 06:20 PM
I would say an emphatic no. Duke is one of the most physical teams that you can run into, and if you've seen us pull out several close wins (many coming from behind late), you would not question their mental toughness either. What you can question fairly is their fundamental ability to shoot a layup. If they get that down, they will be beyone dangerous. Btw, I'm not trying to be funny there...that's just a fact of this team; they have poor skills under the basket, it's been that way for a while.

Where was that toughness against UConn and to a lesser extent UNC on Monday, Baylor last year, or Mich. State the year before? I know the team was very competitive against UNC, Baylor and Mich. State; but I think the team is still lacking a level of toughness when it comes to pressure situations against upper echelon teams. Yes, being better offensively can help with beating those types of teams; but I still think at some point they have to break that mental barrier of believing that they can beat the really good teams like a UConn, Stanford, Baylor, etc.. And I think it will come in time (very similar to the experiences of Jon Scheyer, Zoubs and Lance on the men's side in which they grew mentally over the course of the 4-year career at Duke to the point were tough enough mentally and physically to win championships in their Junior and Senior years).

uh_no
02-08-2011, 06:24 PM
Where was that toughness against UConn

I think that is the easiest thing to answer.....if you look at the uconn game, you could say that almost every team uconn plays lacks toughness...and that includes teams such as UNC, you would have to say they lack toughness because of how they lost to uconn.

That loss isn't a lack of toughness, it was the result of a superior uconn team.

Class of '94
02-08-2011, 06:39 PM
I think that is the easiest thing to answer.....if you look at the uconn game, you could say that almost every team uconn plays lacks toughness...and that includes teams such as UNC, you would have to say they lack toughness because of how they lost to uconn.

That loss isn't a lack of toughness, it was the result of a superior uconn team.

But looking back at our game, UConn pushed the team around like no other team they played. Yes, UConn right now is a superior team; but I would argue that with our team's depth, Duke has just as much talent as (and maybe more than) UConn. And I would also argue that the team like many others were mentally and physically intimidated by UConn. And yes I would say that UNC lacked mental toughness against UConn and was intimidated by them when UNC played UConn. I watched the UConn-Ohio State game (a battle between 2 top 10 teams at the time) in MSG earlier this season, and I felt to a certain extent that Ohio State was intimidated by UConn as evidenced by the rushed shots that the women took. I think a team playing a superior team like UConn has to first overcome the mental challenge of not being intimidated by a UConn; and has to have the mental and physical toughness to withstand their onslaught. When we beat Tenn in the final four in the mid 90's in Coach G's first appearance with Duke in a final 4, we weren't more talented than Tenn but we were mentally and physically tough against them (along with the fact we were able to consistently execute on offense :) ) IMO, there are only 2, possibly 3 teams right now that has the toughness to beat a superior team like UConn (Baylor, Stanford and possibly Tenn); and I believe we still have a lot of growth to do mentally and physically in order to get into that elite group.

Devilsfan
02-08-2011, 07:05 PM
Yes. The coach is paid to run a clean program and beat our rival, it sounds like John Cooper is at the helm if I didn't know better.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-08-2011, 08:48 PM
What the team lacks is shooters who can consistently make a (jump) shot. From any distance.

dukelifer
02-08-2011, 09:59 PM
I would love to hear feedback on this. And let me just say that I am a fan of the women's team, and I appreciate what Coach P and her staff has done with this team. The team has come a long way in terms of improvement under Coach P. But after watching the UNC game and UConn games along with a plethora of other games this year as well as in past years under Coach P and Coach G, I have to wonder if the team is soft mentally and physically when it comes to playing the upper echelon teams on the road or at neurtal sites. Yes, the team seems offensively challenged at times but I wonder if it goes deeper than that. Jasmine seemed to confirm the lack of toughness with her most recent comments after the loss to Carolina on Monday (see goduke.com, WBB section or http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/11307590/article-Quick-start-vs--UNC-wasn-t-enough-for-Duke?instance=main_article for example) in which she talked about the team should not have to be coached to fight and that the team has to change in this regard. The ladies were completly "punked" by UConn and totally unraveled at UNC when UNC made their run and surged ahead. Looking at the past, it seemed like Coach G spent a lot of time trying to work on increasing the mental toughness of the team and Coach P has worked on increasing the physical toughness of the team in hopes that the increased physical toughness would improve the team's mental toughness.

I could be totally off-base, but again I wanted to get the opinions of others who have watched the women play.

No. This team has won a ton of games this year against very solid and ranked teams by being mentally tough. They have also crushed teams this year- not letting them off the hook. This is a good team. They got killed by one of the best teams/programs in the history of college bball who also crushed UNC and lots of other teams and played a great game. They lost to UNC because this is a rivalry game and that is how they go sometimes. Other than that they have won them all. So I do not see a trend in those two losses.

Duvall
02-08-2011, 10:03 PM
What the team lacks is shooters who can consistently make a (jump) shot. From any distance.

No. What the team lacks is shooters who can consistently make a (jump) shot in Duke's offense.

uh_no
02-08-2011, 10:27 PM
I think the previous two post have it dead on. We have a very good team, and we have the results to show it. We also have an offense that has some issues, and after 4 or whatever years, its clearly not just the players....they've changed but the offensive issues have remained the same. I think its time for a little bit of K style flexibility