MBB: Duke 76, NCSU 52 Post-Game Thread

[superdave]

Not a whole lot of dissection needed here. NCSU seems to have regressed as a team. I hate to see that because I really want to be able to cheer for El Sid.

Mason Plumlee was aggressive today, and there was good hustle all around. On to the Unc game.

[Stratrat]

Where can I find post game interviews from tonight's Duke versus NC State game?

[riverside6]

you can see the final stats here:

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHdGame.asp?hSchedule=7049

Duke dominated pretty much every part of the game.

[cptnflash]

First half, beautiful. Second half, dreadful.

[superdave]

First half, beautiful. Second half, dreadful.

We got outscored 28-23 in the 2nd half. Uhm. Ouch. I should be more upset but that game was just plain ugly after we got up, what, 29-10.

[marinbobbyduhon]

I was having trouble staying focused in the second half - so were our players. I did perk up with the Jack Marin story, though! ;)

[Saratoga2]

Early in the game, we were playing some of out best basketball and NC State wasn't. When we went with Josh, we basically slowed down and the rest of the game was kind of a hodge podge or lineups.

The good:

Nolan played very well in the first half and looked to be the quickest and most determined player on the court. I loved his defense and distribution as well as his scoring.

Mason had his second very strong game again. His rebounding and blocked shots were excellent and he tried to hit on some hooks in the post and was successful. What an improvement from earlier in the year. Now if he could hit more of his free throws. He line drives those. You have got to think he is getting coaching on those but you could see he father grimace when he bricked one after another.

Seth is also improving and gaining confidence. His defense is improving game by game and he has been more of a threat scoring lately.

I liked Tyler's contribution of handling the ball and playing solid defense. He managed to draw NC State into a couple of offensive fouls. I can see him getting to the basket ala Nolan more as the season wears on

Things that could improve:

I can't believe Andre can't get more shot attempts than he is getting. He is a good shooter but somehow disappears for long times. Something needs to get him to be more aggressive out there. His defense was pretty good

Miles is a big and athletic guy and that makes him valuable at times. He does seem to have trouble with catching and being strong with the ball. He also has this habit of overplaying. He either lunges and puts himself out of position or he fouls. My opinion is that the coaches need to convince him to play behind his guy and avoid the mistakes he seems to make on a regular basis.

Josh got some valuable playing time. He did well for a freshman, but the team is not as cohesive with him in at the forward position. I do like his hustle and expect him to continue to improve.

Ryan didn't seem to make much of an impact in the game. That makes two in a row so it seemed strange after him playing such a big part just two games ago.

[Saratoga2]

I forgot to mention Singler. I thought he had an off game. He seemed to be forcing shots and he got himself into foul trouble. It appeared like he wanted to take it on himself to score instead of taking what came to him and dishing when it wasn't there.

[taiw93]

I thought this game was going to be much closer than it was. State played more lackadaisically at 0-0 than Duke did with a 30 point lead; if Lowe can't get his get his guys to play with more intensity against the best team in their conference, he really must go.

On the Duke side, I loved what I saw from Mason - he seemed to expand on the progress he made in the Maryland game and then some. However, he NEEDS to do better than 2-7 on free throws - fouling him at this point is practically as good as a turnover. Nolan was positively deadly off the dribble today, and Seth is money on transition threes. I am a little disappointed, though, that Ryan seems to be in a bit of a rut. Did he even attempt a shot today?

Overall, though, Duke looked really, really good today. Now, it's on to the next one. GTHC.

[Dr. Tina]

I can't believe Andre can't get more shot attempts than he is getting. He is a good shooter but somehow disappears for long times. Something needs to get him to be more aggressive out there. His defense was pretty good



While I do think Andre needs to move more without the ball, there were times he was wide open, calling for the ball, and getting nowhere. In 2 back-to-back possessions (I'm pretty sure), he called for the ball and Nolan didn't dish to him. After the 2nd time, I continued to watch Andre when Nolan went the other way, and Andre's body language was pretty poor. He dropped his hands and hung his head, shaking it, like he was frustrated, and slowly trotted across the baseline. Later, when he was getting more touches, he seemed to be really wanting to get shots off whether or not they were actually good shots to be taking.

[Philsfan]

State is who I thought they were...not good. Sorry Sid, a team's gotta have heart, and your guys don't.

[uh_no]

While I do think Andre needs to move more without the ball, there were times he was wide open, calling for the ball, and getting nowhere. In 2 back-to-back possessions (I'm pretty sure), he called for the ball and Nolan didn't dish to him. After the 2nd time, I continued to watch Andre when Nolan went the other way, and Andre's body language was pretty poor. He dropped his hands and hung his head, shaking it, like he was frustrated, and slowly trotted across the baseline. Later, when he was getting more touches, he seemed to be really wanting to get shots off whether or not they were actually good shots to be taking.

Nolan has become a bit of a ball hog at times....there were times when he would ignore wide open mason as well, only to miss a wacky shot or get blocked....I'm not sure if it's nolan wanting to make a star play or simply being so committed to scoring that sometimes he closes out everything but his defender (more likely) but he must be open to passing sometimes once he has started his drive

[dairedevil]

Back to the top! Hate it that a thread about unc/drew leaving is leading this board.

As for the game, not much to say about this one - happy we got the win, looked great at times, and pretty bad at others. Glad that they were able to have a relatively easy game before Wednesday.

[DU82]

One play in the second half I think said it all about these two teams. A loose ball heading towards our basket. The State player jogs after it, Josh dives after it.

[dukelifer]

I got a bit worried after Duke had a 29 pt half time lead. I thought Duke was about to play its most dominant game of the year. I want them to play that the next game. So they missed a bunch of shots in the second half and gave up some easy shots so now there are plenty of reasons to get refocused. In the second half- Duke attacked but stuff did not fall. Maybe focus- maybe something else. That said, hard to lose when you get a 29 pt lead. Time to get ready for the toughest game of the year so far.

[diveonthefloor]

While I do think Andre needs to move more without the ball, there were times he was wide open, calling for the ball, and getting nowhere. In 2 back-to-back possessions (I'm pretty sure), he called for the ball and Nolan didn't dish to him. After the 2nd time, I continued to watch Andre when Nolan went the other way, and Andre's body language was pretty poor. He dropped his hands and hung his head, shaking it, like he was frustrated, and slowly trotted across the baseline. Later, when he was getting more touches, he seemed to be really wanting to get shots off whether or not they were actually good shots to be taking.

I noticed exactly the same thing. And I agree with your take. I don't think Nolan et al are ignoring Dre but Dre needs to keep his head up during these stretches. His moments will be there and he needs to be ready.

[Newton_14]

Things that could improve:

I can't believe Andre can't get more shot attempts than he is getting. He is a good shooter but somehow disappears for long times. Something needs to get him to be more aggressive out there. His defense was pretty good

Miles is a big and athletic guy and that makes him valuable at times. He does seem to have trouble with catching and being strong with the ball. He also has this habit of overplaying. He either lunges and puts himself out of position or he fouls. My opinion is that the coaches need to convince him to play behind his guy and avoid the mistakes he seems to make on a regular basis.


Regarding Andre, it is not his fault. Guys are missing him time and time again when he is open. It happened several times tonight. Also, in the 2nd half, when we much to my dismay went back to Nolan and the high screen a lot, it hurt Andre's chances to get looks. In that set the wings stay where they are during the pick and a defender is simply not going to leave Andre. I wish we would just stick with motion and continue to involve all 5 guys in the offense including getting the ball in the post.

Regarding Miles, it is a case of being told to stay aggressive on defense. Sometimes that will lead to a foul but I can live with fouling on a hustle play. Would like to see him be able to sustain that aggression while fouling less, but I cannot fault the hustle and aggression.

[Faison1]

Anyone see how much Miles looks like his Mom?

Also, I feel horribly for Sid. I think this game was the nail in the coffin. It's too bad, because I really like him.

[moonpie23]

it's hard to continue to deliver a skilled, laser-like prize fight performance when your opponent is lying on the floor balled up...

[Newton_14]

I noticed exactly the same thing. And I agree with your take. I don't think Nolan et al are ignoring Dre but Dre needs to keep his head up during these stretches. His moments will be there and he needs to be ready.

Agree with both of you and it wasn't just Nolan. Seth missed him twice as well late in the 2nd half. I think the reason he bricked that one three was rushing a bad shot due to not getting the ball earlier when he would have had a chance at good looks. Hopefully K will point that out to the other guards during the film session and guys will be more aware.

[Chris Randolph]

As stated, the first half was great to watch. Some top 10 plays in the first half. When you are up by SO much at half, it can be easy to lose focus in the 2nd half (especially when Carolina is up next). You wish they would stay focused and execute for the whole game but that hardly ever happens in games like that. All in all, after a huge win at Maryland combined with the Holes coming to town Wednesday, a sluggish start would have been reasonably understandable. Glad to see the guys come out and take it to the Pack right away

[Kedsy]

Nolan has become a bit of a ball hog at times....there were times when he would ignore wide open mason as well, only to miss a wacky shot or get blocked....I'm not sure if it's nolan wanting to make a star play or simply being so committed to scoring that sometimes he closes out everything but his defender (more likely) but he must be open to passing sometimes once he has started his drive

Well, I agree with you to a certain extent; there is a point during his drive that Nolan sorts of puts his blinders on and doesn't see anybody else. Before that point if he sees the guy he'll pass, but afterward, no. In fairness, though, Nolan had 7 assists against 2 turnovers tonight, so it's not like he doesn't pass at all. I think we just have to accept the occasional wacky shot.

I also think that once again Nolan played way better when he was initiating the offense than he did when Tyler was running the point. While the sample size is small (two games), the generally accepted idea that Nolan would succeed more at his "natural" position does not seem to me to be borne out by the facts.

[diveonthefloor]

I also think that once again Nolan played way better when he was initiating the offense than he did when Tyler was running the point. While the sample size is small (two games), the generally accepted idea that Nolan would succeed more at his "natural" position does not seem to me to be borne out by the facts.

By "play better" do you mean score more? It is also important to note how the team as a whole functions with different combos and different assignments. NCSU didn't apply much ball pressure and did not press. This was not a normal ACC game.

[Stratrat]

Agree with both of you and it wasn't just Nolan. Seth missed him twice as well late in the 2nd half. I think the reason he bricked that one three was rushing a bad shot due to not getting the ball earlier when he would have had a chance at good looks. Hopefully K will point that out to the other guards during the film session and guys will be more aware.

My original thread was where can I find the post game interviews?
Somebody knows

[hq2]

Hard to say much about this game; State is really awful, so it wasn't much of a test.
I think Sid may get the boot at the end of the year if they keep playing like this.

Not surprised to see Kelly disappear. He's at a stage where he'll have good games and bad; still growing into his body, figuring out what to do. If Mason could get that jump hook going more, that would be a huge plus. Once again, however, we are most of the way through the season and still haven't established anyone as a reliable third option. I'm thinking it may just happen on a game-by-game basis, depending on matchups and who's hot/playing well. But at least Mason is giving us quality rebounding and shot blocking; that helps a lot.

[gcashwell]

I am really concerned with the weakness of the ACC. Duke is not seeing the challenge they need to prepare them to be playing in early April.

[Newton_14]

My original thread was where can I find the post game interviews?
Somebody knows

The best place for post-game audio is actually WRAL.com's sport section. They post a lot of post-game interviews after each game including the coaches presser's and then interviews in the locker rooms with players. Best part of it is they are all free.

[Newton_14]

Hard to say much about this game; State is really awful, so it wasn't much of a test.
I think Sid may get the boot at the end of the year if they keep playing like this.

Not surprised to see Kelly disappear. He's at a stage where he'll have good games and bad; still growing into his body, figuring out what to do. If Mason could get that jump hook going more, that would be a huge plus. Once again, however, we are most of the way through the season and still haven't established anyone as a reliable third option. I'm thinking it may just happen on a game-by-game basis, depending on matchups and who's hot/playing well. But at least Mason is giving us quality rebounding and shot blocking; that helps a lot.

I think that "3rd Option" is going to be one of Mason, Andre, Seth, and Ryan, and like you state it will likely be a different one of them game by game. That is not terrible either, though it would be nice to establish a 3rd scored that we could count on getting 15+ game in and game out.

If Kyrie makes it back, then we will have the 3-Headed Monster again, but if not it appears it will be by committee.

[uh_no]

I am really concerned with the weakness of the ACC. Duke is not seeing the challenge they need to prepare them to be playing in early April.

While I agree in principal, K has been around for a while, and in my opinion will know how to take specifics out of each game and piece that into a team that can compete in april. Say for instance MSU did this well, and butler did thiss well, and this team did x. Yeah, no one team had it all, but we certainly have experience against a number of teams. I personally don't think without kyrie that we are final 4 quality, but that's my personal opinion. Carolina is a good team....despite their early defeats, they still only have 5 losses on the season.

While its not ideal to not have a top opponent, I have no doubt K knows what he needs to do to prepare the team as best as possible with the plate he got dealt.

[peterjswift]

Anyone have a link to the video of Josh Hairston chasing down that loose ball? That was hilarious. When he first jumped, all I could think was that it was a wasted effort and he just took himself out of the play....when he kept sliding, it became one of my favorite moments from the game.

Of course, had he not touched it and poked it out of bounds, I think it would have been a backcourt violation since State was the last to touch it before it went back court.

Still - I loved the effort and the play should be a top ten on sportscenter (in my opinon)

[devildeac]

Anyone have a link to the video of Josh Hairston chasing down that loose ball? That was hilarious. When he first jumped, all I could think was that it was a wasted effort and he just took himself out of the play....when he kept sliding, it became one of my favorite moments from the game.

Of course, had he not touched it and poked it out of bounds, I think it would have been a backcourt violation since State was the last to touch it before it went back court.

Still - I loved the effort and the play should be a top ten on sportscenter (in my opinon)
I don't watch K that much during the games but that play even had him up applauding the effort.

[Stratrat]

Regarding Andre, it is not his fault. Guys are missing him time and time again when he is open. It happened several times tonight. Also, in the 2nd half, when we much to my dismay went back to Nolan and the high screen a lot, it hurt Andre's chances to get looks. In that set the wings stay where they are during the pick and a defender is simply not going to leave Andre. I wish we would just stick with motion and continue to involve all 5 guys in the offense including getting the ball in the post.

Regarding Miles, it is a case of being told to stay aggressive on defense. Sometimes that will lead to a foul but I can live with fouling on a hustle play. Would like to see him be able to sustain that aggression while fouling less, but I cannot fault the hustle and aggression.

Hey look - Miles overplaying on defense is going to cost us if it goes uncorrected. It is time for him to man up and quit giving up on Duke defense. Not only that but play under the basket dude and go straight up with the ball when u get it there. Someone help me out here. If I was a Duke coach i would lose my mind every time he shot a jump shot. Please understand how many jump shooters we have on this team. Help me Jesus.
Good game for Mason but it freaks me out to watch him dribble the ball. Somebody help me. He also needs to be coached to stay under the basket and go straight up when he gets the ball there. Love that hook though. 7 foot players need to hang and bang underneath the basket and let the little guys work outside.
Am I the only one that wants to see Dre take 15 - 20 shots just one game and see what happens? Seems like that should be part of a gameplan. Top guy in ACC with accuracy from the 3. Can somebody help me here?
I did appreciate our fluid first half tonight and understand how we could lose focus in the second half. However- being elite is a tough row to hoe. When you play Ohio State you can ill afford these kind of problems that we should have already addressed. Against NC State these problems will fly but not against the elite. We have what it takes so let's do it.

[uh_no]

I think it would have been a backcourt violation since State was the last to touch it before it went back court.


hust to clarify:
it doesn't matter who was the last to touch it. Since a duke player had interfered, there is not backcourt UNLESS an NCST player had intermittently established possesion in the froncourt before the ball wen back to the backcourt

so no violation there

[Neals384]

Of course, had he not touched it and poked it out of bounds, I think it would have been a backcourt violation since State was the last to touch it before it went back court.

No, Brown dribbled the ball off Josh's foot. It would not have been back court.

[Jarhead]

it's hard to continue to deliver a skilled, laser-like prize fight performance when your opponent is lying on the floor balled up...

Maybe you are right... for the first half. In the Second half State stepped up the defense just a tad, and we quit. We packed our swagger away, and forgot it. We lost it in the second half. We went from a 54% shooting percentage in the first half to 42% for the whole game. State outscored us 28-23. We should be aware that any team we will be facing from here on out will show up with just enough defense to force tonight's second half performance, or try to, for the whole game. We'll be fortunate to win 4 of our last 8 games unless the guys pay attention. If they do we'll win all eight. That's what we are capable of doing.
http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/angry/screaming.gif

[Stratrat]

The best place for post-game audio is actually WRAL.com's sport section. They post a lot of post-game interviews after each game including the coaches presser's and then interviews in the locker rooms with players. Best part of it is they are all free.

Thanks Boozer

[-jk]

hust to clarify:
it doesn't matter who was the last to touch it. Since a duke player had interfered, there is not backcourt UNLESS an NCST player had intermittently established possesion in the froncourt before the ball wen back to the backcourt

so no violation there

I'm not sure that's quite right. I think so long as NCSU had team possession (not player control), they are vulnerable to a backcourt violation if they were the last to touch it.

-jk

[uh_no]

I'm not sure that's quite right. I think so long as NCSU had team possession (not player control), they are vulnerable to a backcourt violation if they were the last to touch it.

-jk


Rule 9. Section 12. Ball in Back Court
Art. 1. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his or her back court
(with any part of his or her body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball
came from the front court while the player’s team was in team control and
the player or a teammate caused the ball to go into the back court.

I guess it depends on the current intepretation of 'caused'

http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51471-ncaa-back-court-rule-meaning-caused-ball.html

there seems to be some confusion in general

[Kedsy]

Love that hook though.

But if he'd bricked the hook I bet you'd be telling us how you'd lose your mind if you saw him take it again.


Am I the only one that wants to see Dre take 15 - 20 shots just one game and see what happens?

Check the Bradley box score. It has already happened in "just one game." But despite the fact that he scored a lot of points against Bradley, I don't think with our personnel that Andre Dawkins should be taking 25% to 35% of our shots on a regular basis.


However- being elite is a tough row to hoe. When you play Ohio State you can ill afford these kind of problems that we should have already addressed.

Seriously? If we get ahead of Ohio State by 30 points I won't mind if we slip a little in the 2nd half. Do you really think they'd lost concentration like that in a close game?


Someone help me out here.
Help me Jesus.
Somebody help me.
Can somebody help me here?


Well, I do think it's likely you need help.

[weezie]

Well, I do think it's likely you need help.

Lol Kedsy, you do make a good point or three!

[Kedsy]

By "play better" do you mean score more? It is also important to note how the team as a whole functions with different combos and different assignments. NCSU didn't apply much ball pressure and did not press. This was not a normal ACC game.

No, I don't think I've ever meant "score more" when I've said "play better" in my life.

What I'm saying is I don't think Nolan has been playing as well on offense when Tyler is running the point. When Tyler has the ball, Nolan has been standing around a bit too much, and when he gets the ball he seems a lot more tentative. In the past two games, when Nolan has been off the ball I feel he has shot worse, passed worse, driven with less purpose, and just not contributed nearly as well to the team offense. When Tyler was out of the game and Nolan was running the point, I feel Nolan has performed better at all those things.

I admit it's a perception thing, though. I haven't gone through the play-by-play to back my perception up with any numbers.

Incidentally, while I agree NCSU has one of the lesser defenses in the ACC, since when is it a "normal" ACC game only when they press? Other than Maryland's very soft press, I don't recall the press being a staple of any of our ACC opponents this season.

[Dukeford]

Did anybody else notice Thornton griping at Dawkins after the turnover with 45 seconds left? Then he slipped out the F word while on camera.
Seemed a little unnecessary, plus the turnover seemed to be Thornton's fault as much as Dawkins.

[devildeac]

Just realized this: even if we had not scored in the 2nd half, we would have pulled out a nail-biter, 53-52 :eek:.

[Devilsfan]

Please! This is a totally unnecessary comment. We won. We played great building a first half lead scoring more than the opposition would score all game. Be happy. Bring on the disfunctional collection of soles from that mole hill a few miles away.

[Kfanarmy]

Maybe you are right... for the first half. In the Second half State stepped up the defense just a tad, and we quit. We packed our swagger away, and forgot it. We lost it in the second half. We went from a 54% shooting percentage in the first half to 42% for the whole game. State outscored us 28-23. We should be aware that any team we will be facing from here on out will show up with just enough defense to force tonight's second half performance, or try to, for the whole game. We'll be fortunate to win 4 of our last 8 games unless the guys pay attention. If they do we'll win all eight. That's what we are capable of doing.
http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/angry/screaming.gif

Is this a serious post or are you joking?

[uh_no]

Please! This is a totally unnecessary comment. We won. We played great building a first half lead scoring more than the opposition would score all game. Be happy. Bring on the disfunctional collection of soles from that mole hill a few miles away.

If every time our team won, they ignored every criticism because 'we won,' then we wouldn't have 4 national titles and a bazillion final 4s.

[Dukeford]

Please! This is a totally unnecessary comment. We won. We played great building a first half lead scoring more than the opposition would score all game. Be happy. Bring on the disfunctional collection of soles from that mole hill a few miles away.

If you are referring to my comment about the interaction between Dawkins and Thornton, then you are correct, my post definitely isn't "necessary".
But there were earlier posts commenting on Dawkins body language earlier in the game. Those comments were also unnecessary.
But they are part of the reason this board exists, for fans to share observations.

[Bob Green]

Please! This is a totally unnecessary comment.

Which comment is totally unnecessary? You provide no framework for your response.

[Kedsy]

By "play better" do you mean score more?


No... I admit it's a perception thing, though. I haven't gone through the play-by-play to back my perception up with any numbers.

OK, I just went through the play-by-play for tonight's game. Obviously better stats don't mean a player played better, but here are Nolan's lines alongside Tyler and without him:

With Tyler running point: ~14 minutes, 1 for 5 FGs (20%), no 3-pt attempts, 4 for 4 FTs / 6 pts, 3 rebs, 2 assts, 1 TO, 1 stl.

Without Tyler; Nolan running point: ~17 mins, 5 for 10 FGs (50%), 2 for 2 3-ptrs, 2 for 2 FTs / 14 pts, 3 rebs, 5 assts, no TO, 1 stl, 1 blk.


So like I said, these numbers may not mean anything or they might support my observation that Nolan didn't play as well alongside Tyler as he did running the point himself.


.

[Devilsfan]

Bob, the supposed fighting between our players and the use of discriptive four letter words on TV.

[Buckeye Devil]

The worst negative that I could see tonight was the free throw shooting. My last count was 14 for 27 after Nolan hit a pair. I don't know what the final percentage was but it was not much better than 50%. And tonight it was not just the Plumlee's dragging down the average either. But in case of a close game, there is no way they should be in the game when Duke has possession and the other team is fouling to extend the game.

[Devilsfan]

Did anyone notice that the person sitting in the first row center court looked exactly like the Oprah's doctor Oz?

[Kedsy]

The worst negative that I could see tonight was the free throw shooting. My last count was 14 for 27 after Nolan hit a pair. I don't know what the final percentage was but it was not much better than 50%.

17 for 32 (53%), so you're right it wasn't much better than 50%.

[magjayran]

Anytime Duke beats one of our closest rivals I'm happy. Anytime Duke beats one of those teams by more than 20 I'm even happier. I'd like to see more effort in the second half but I won't allow myself to be too upset about it. The one thing complaint I really have is with the poor free-throw shooting. Most of those guys I'm not worried about as I think we're a pretty good FT shooting team overall. But Mason and Josh really need to get some arc on their shots.

Still. I'm pleased as punch to have swept this series this year. I really miss playing State twice a year every year.

[sagegrouse]

My original thread was where can I find the post game interviews?
Somebody knows

I am sure someone has already linked this (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205090960).

sagegrouse

[tele]

I also think that once again Nolan played way better when he was initiating the offense than he did when Tyler was running the point. While the sample size is small (two games), the generally accepted idea that Nolan would succeed more at his "natural" position does not seem to me to be borne out by the facts.

You're probably right about the sample size of two games being too small to conclude much. But I suspect that Nolan's natural position is more combo guard and while he may be better at initiating his own offense when he has the ball in his hands, that may not be as true for initiating the whole team offense when he is at point guard. And then of course there is the defensive aspect where just having Tyler play on the ball helps Nolan out both on defense and on offense.

Having a freshman run the point can be a bit of a bumpy ride at times, but Coach K has had some success doing so in the past. I'm sure there will still be times in tight games that you're going to want the ball in the seniors hands, and it will probably wind up there.

[superdave]

Time to get ready for the toughest game of the year so far.

Yeah, I think that after the past 4-5 years, there's a molehill here we've got to get over. This will be our toughest conference game this year. If we get through this one, we will somehow gain some confidence otherwise not possible.

Remember Mason's reverse finish last year in the Dean Dome? A real turning point/confidence builder for us. We played down tho their level for about 32 minutes, then realized we were better. We're better now, we're better this year, and we need the boost in confidence to wrap up the ACC. It will be a fight, but these guys will have a point where a switch flips, where they realize Barnes is not that good, Zeller can be pushed around, and we can get to the rim without much trouble.

[superdave]

Did anyone notice that the person sitting in the first row center court looked exactly like the Oprah's doctor Oz?

I had not noticed that but I dont watch Oprah. Should I know this Oz character? Does he have a PHD in basketball? Or an MD? Or is Oz a she?

[davekay1971]

Very nice observation by Kedsy a few posts above regarding Nolan's production with and without Tyler playing. That comes as a surprise to me! It will be interesting to see how that dynamic develops, because having Tyler in gives us a lot of advantages, but Nolan's offensive production is key, particularly against tough opponents in the postseason.

As for the 1st half/2nd half differential in quality of play, I wouldn't make too much of it. We had the game won by halftime, and our guys knew it. They're great players and have that trademark Duke/Coach K intensity, but they're human. I think they played out the string in the 2nd half, having the game comfortably in hand, knowing cruise control would be more than enough to win, and probably already anticipating the HUGE game against some sorry light blue team on Wednesday. I'm sure they didn't intend to put it on cruise control, but it would almost be hard not to.

I have no doubt at all that the intensity level will be turned up to 11 by tomorrow's practice. That's right, kids...this amp is special...it goes to 11.

[InSpades]

My only complaint is the free throw shooting. It was pretty obvious that the team had a letdown after building the 30 point lead and I can't really fault them too much for that.

The free throw shooting though... in the last 2 games Duke is 27 of 48 (56%). In those 2 games Nolan is 13 of 13. Which means everyone not named Nolan was 14 of 35 (40%). Against better teams this would have 'caused a lot of trouble.

On the positive side... Mason is playing much better. He actually had a great line today (7 of 8 from the field, 16 points, 12 rebounds, 2 steals, 3 blocks, 0 TOs). Nolan had an amazing 1st half as well. Seth seems to be getting his swagger back after a rough stretch. Bring on the Heels!

[loran16]

Seriously people? Duke was projected to win by 23. We won by 24. Why are you complaining?

When a team is up 29 after a half, it changes the game....especially in a game against a non-rivalry opponent who isn't very good. NC State was not coming back. And in fact we could've won scoring 0 points in the 2nd, showing that fact. So our players probably weren't playing in their best form.

I won't complain here. i complained about not beating Miami in the 2nd half, but that was a game that was still within 10 points....clearly not over. This one was over before the 2nd half began.

[uh_no]

Seriously people? Duke was projected to win by 23. We won by 24. Why are you complaining?

When a team is up 29 after a half, it changes the game....especially in a game against a non-rivalry opponent who isn't very good. NC State was not coming back. And in fact we could've won scoring 0 points in the 2nd, showing that fact. So our players probably weren't playing in their best form.

I won't complain here. i complained about not beating Miami in the 2nd half, but that was a game that was still within 10 points....clearly not over. This one was over before the 2nd half began.

we didn't play a perfect game. if there are things that are wrong then the team works on them....not working on things that are wrong (win or lose) is a seed of failure

[funkmeister]

Highlights from tonight's game (http://www.crazie-talk.com/2011/02/06/section-17-whomping-the-wolfpack/) from the front row of the student section.

Nice win, guys. GTHC.

[InSpades]

Seriously people? Duke was projected to win by 23. We won by 24. Why are you complaining?


Maybe that Duke shot 6 of 31 in the 2nd half. I'm not complaining about a 24 point win but that was not a good half in the least. They shot under 20%... I guess we can be happy we got that out of our system :).

[cptnflash]

While I do think Andre needs to move more without the ball, there were times he was wide open, calling for the ball, and getting nowhere. In 2 back-to-back possessions (I'm pretty sure), he called for the ball and Nolan didn't dish to him. After the 2nd time, I continued to watch Andre when Nolan went the other way, and Andre's body language was pretty poor. He dropped his hands and hung his head, shaking it, like he was frustrated, and slowly trotted across the baseline. Later, when he was getting more touches, he seemed to be really wanting to get shots off whether or not they were actually good shots to be taking.

I saw exactly the same thing. Andre wound up forcing bad 2-pointers after Nolan missed him wide open at the 3-point line a couple times.

[MChambers]

Just realized this: even if we had not scored in the 2nd half, we would have pulled out a nail-biter, 53-52 :eek:.
Very similar to last year's UNC game in Cameron, where we led 53-26 and half and won 82-50.

[DukieInBrasil]

I like the new in-bounds play they're running for Mason, if the ball is inbounded to the side of the basket on the baseline Mason will set a screen for a shooter going to the corner, causing his man (vs. Md. it was Jordan W. and vs St. it was T. Smith) to hedge out on the shooter. This leaves MPs defender on his hip and all he has to do is pivot towards the hoop and he has a clear lane for a posterizing dunk. If his defender doesn't hedge out we get a pretty great look at a 3, so it is becoming a very valuable play especially early in the game to get MP II a dunk and lift his confidence.

[Saratoga2]

We have to suppose the earliest return of Kyrie, if at all, will be in March. Based on the improvements seen in recent games, I wonder where we can improve going into the second half of the ACC season.

1. Clearly on free throw percentage. If Mason could just get to 65% from around 40% it would limit defenses from just hacking away. We have some other players who should be better and probably will next game.

2. While Kyle and Nolan are wonderful defensive players, and are key point producers, they could move toward the dish off mentality when heavily defended. Players like Rondo of the Celtics get more value out of passing than scoring, so balance is what I am looking for and leadership.

3. We have three potential scorers in Seth, Andre and Ryan, who for some reason do not show up on some nights. Seth did well last night but neither Ryan or Andre seemed to be in the offensive game plan. Could a little more of point 2. help with that, are they just in a funk or is the coaching omitting them from the game plan? Don't know what it is, but I would be looking for increased involvement of all of our offensive threats.

4. Have the coaches emphacized aggressive defense to the point where players like Miles feels the need to overplay by looking for the steal and overrunning the play or fouling. Would we be better if he was content to play behind his man and prevent drives to the basket or easy passing lanes. Is Ryan a smarter player in that way even through he is not as physically gifted?

5. Will PT be enough to bring Tyler Thornton's game along by tournament time. He is already a tough and aggressive defender and he is usually strong with the ball. Coach K indicated that his turn overs were not all his fault. He is also showing that he wants to take some part in the scoring, so teams will not be able to ignore him defensively. What i am seeing with Tyler are mainly good things which will get better.

6. Will Mason's game continue to improve? He has really taken off in his last two games. Wow!

Going forward we will see a much bigger athletic team next. Will we be forced to play two bigs, Kyle and two guards? Will we be able to guard a 6'7" guard with a 6'1" guard? I guess the point is that it is still about matchups and we will need to have our players where they can be successful. The alternative is will they be able to play our quick guards effectively with their size?

[peterjswift]

I guess it depends on the current intepretation of 'caused'

http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51471-ncaa-back-court-rule-meaning-caused-ball.html

there seems to be some confusion in general

If I was calling the game, and the NC State player touched the ball, I would have called it a backcourt violation (of course, IANAR). Regardless, I think this is a call that can go either way so often that I think chasing down the ball is a smart idea, even if you think it could potentially be a backcourt violation.

The way I saw it, NC State had control of the ball and lost it, and not because it was swatted away by Duke but because of poor ball control by the player.

Hairston's effort was incredible....whether it was going to be called a backcourt violation or not. It was also hilarious. I really want to know if it was his intention to belly-slide that far to poke the ball away or if it was simply a desperation move. His slip-n-slide skills are great! I really hope someone finds a video of it soon.

[CDu]

If I was calling the game, and the NC State player touched the ball, I would have called it a backcourt violation (of course, IANAR). Regardless, I think this is a call that can go either way so often that I think chasing down the ball is a smart idea, even if you think it could potentially be a backcourt violation.

The way I saw it, NC State had control of the ball and lost it, and not because it was swatted away by Duke but because of poor ball control by the player.

And you would have made the wrong call. For one, it's not simply "last to touch it in the frontcourt," but whether or not you caused it to go in the backcourt. For another, the NC State player wasn't even the last to touch it in the frontcourt (he dribbled it off of Hairston's foot).

But yes - chasing down the ball is always a good idea (for both teams). If you're the offensive player and you don't chase it down, there's a chance it's not a violation. If you don't, the other team can get the ball and eliminate any doubt about the call (and possibly get a free layup out of it). If you're the defensive team, you can potentially get the steal and a layup. And you may force the offensive player to make a mistake in recovering the ball.

[Neals384]

The way I saw it, NC State had control of the ball and lost it, and not because it was swatted away by Duke but because of poor ball control by the player.

Right, it was not swatted away. He dribbled it off Josh's foot. It would not have been a backcourt violation.

[Bob Green]

I also think that once again Nolan played way better when he was initiating the offense than he did when Tyler was running the point. While the sample size is small (two games), the generally accepted idea that Nolan would succeed more at his "natural" position does not seem to me to be borne out by the facts.

I disagreed with you re Thornton's playing time in a different thread but I definitely respect your opinion as you're one of the posters here at DBR who actually like to discuss basketball strategy and Xs & Os, etc...

When you say "the generally accepted idea" I assume you mean the fan base, because I believe the reason the coaching staff has increased Thornton's playing time is not so Smith can play off the ball more on offense but because Thornton makes us a tougher team on defense.

I am interested in your opinion on why Thornton is playing more minutes. Do you agree with me it is all about defense or am I missing the bus on this situation.

[TaiAdmiral]

Hi guys,

Here's highlights from last night's game against Kool-Aid man and Co.

http://www.crazie-talk.com/2011/02/06/section-17-whomping-the-wolfpack/

[MChambers]

I am interested in your opinion on why Thornton is playing more minutes. Do you agree with me it is all about defense or am I missing the bus on this situation.

you didn't ask me, but I'll offer my opinion, which is that you're right. If you read the postgames quotes, someone, maybe K, mentions Thornton's on the ball defense.

[sagegrouse]

Doug, AKA "Super fan," was a classmate of mine and passed away a while ago. I can't ever remember seeing a fan remembered on a national telecast. It was a touching moment.

sagegrouse

[JMarley50]

Seriously people? Duke was projected to win by 23. We won by 24. Why are you complaining?

When a team is up 29 after a half, it changes the game....especially in a game against a non-rivalry opponent who isn't very good. NC State was not coming back. And in fact we could've won scoring 0 points in the 2nd, showing that fact. So our players probably weren't playing in their best form.

I won't complain here. i complained about not beating Miami in the 2nd half, but that was a game that was still within 10 points....clearly not over. This one was over before the 2nd half began.


And if I recall correctly, those of us who had complaints after the Miami game were criticized pretty bad, and called "negative nellies". The common response to our comments was something along the lines of "the outcome of the game was never in question", or "that was a typical hard fought ACC game and we won so be happy". Oops I forgot, I'm not supposed to say "we", because I wasn't playing, merely watching from home.

I agree with you, I didn't really see a whole lot to complain about in this one (other than FT shooting). I would compare the second half to a football team who gets up big and starts running the ball to grind out the clock. I felt like Coach K may have called off the dogs a little. He used the 2nd half to experiment and get the reserves some much needed PT IMO. There is no doubt in my mind that if he told the guys to keep the pedal down and completely embarrass State, that's what would have happened.

In all, I think it was a great game. I especially want to give props to my boy Mase. I've been tough on him this year, and it appears as if its starting to click. He had a great game against a good veteran player. Now if he can only figure out how to shoot free throws.

[sagegrouse]

Seriously people? Duke was projected to win by 23. We won by 24. Why are you complaining?

When a team is up 29 after a half, it changes the game....especially in a game against a non-rivalry opponent who isn't very good. NC State was not coming back. And in fact we could've won scoring 0 points in the 2nd, showing that fact. So our players probably weren't playing in their best form.

I won't complain here. i complained about not beating Miami in the 2nd half, but that was a game that was still within 10 points....clearly not over. This one was over before the 2nd half began.

Anyone else remember the Clemson game in Cameron in 2000? Duke was ahead at the half 58-16, thanks to a half court bank shot by freshman Dunleavy at the buzzer. The final score was 93-59. The beleaguered Clemson coach Larry Shyatt in his postgame remarks really did say, "At least we won the second half." [43-35.] Captain Chris Carrawell then told a reporter, "That game was over at the half."

Sometimes garbage time lasts a full 20 minutes.

sagegrouse
'I am sure K will play the poor FT performance like a Stradivarius in prep for Wednesday'

[Kedsy]

I disagreed with you re Thornton's playing time in a different thread but I definitely respect your opinion as you're one of the posters here at DBR who actually like to discuss basketball strategy and Xs & Os, etc...

When you say "the generally accepted idea" I assume you mean the fan base, because I believe the reason the coaching staff has increased Thornton's playing time is not so Smith can play off the ball more on offense but because Thornton makes us a tougher team on defense.

I am interested in your opinion on why Thornton is playing more minutes. Do you agree with me it is all about defense or am I missing the bus on this situation.

Yes, I meant the fan base. And yes, I think from the coaching staff's standpoint this is primarily about Tyler playing defense. I believe Tyler is getting more minutes to give Nolan a rest from guarding the other team's primary ballhandler. Just another way K is trying to keep Nolan fresh despite being on the court close to 40 minutes every game.

Mostly my posts are not to second guess K so much as to disagree with those who are arguing that playing Tyler is better for our offense.

[Bob Green]

Mostly my posts are not to second guess K so much as to disagree with those who are arguing that playing Tyler is better for our offense.

Thanks for responding. It seems we agree on the rationale behind this mid-season line-up change. This is the third year in a row Coach K has made a significant change to the starting line-up. Hopefully, this year's change is as successful as last year's change.

[78Devil]

I was at the game, and of course the first half was really fun to watch. However, although we played good defense (and good defense creates poor offense for the other side), State was just awful. I don't know how apparent that comes across on tv. And the second half was tortuous to watch. I hate to have that be our last kind of play before Carolina.

My observations (many of which echo alot of the above):

1. Kyle came out shooting well for a few minutes, and when he went cold he was forcing shots for the rest of the game. This game was the first time I saw a hint of frustration in someone who otherwise never seems to show it. We deparately need him to be in good form for the rest of the season -- especially Wednesday. He obviously feels that as well, and was trying for a big game when it just wasn't there. I hope he can keep his infamous cool and doesn't get too frustrated, as that will be a real problem.

2. Nolan was repeatedly failing to pass to Andre at several points -- and I'm talking before Andre missed some shots and had some turnovers. I think the latter was caused by the former. It was so hard for him to get the ball even when he was open that he was too anxious when he got it. I hope there is no backstory there. Someone earlier in this thread said that Nolan was acting a little bit of a ball hog, which was what I thought when I was watching. I would never have thought it if I hadn't seen it in person. This team needs 3 legitimate scoring threats, and he has to help develop that. Having said that, Nolan is in a groove and is playing at a different pace and level than anyone else on the floor other than Kyle.

3. Mason "woke up" again, and played very well. They were really working to get him the ball. Miles played fine, although as someone else noted, he was really overplaying the defense. I'm sure that was a coaching decision, but it did lead to some scores when he couldn't get back and there was an open lane.

4. Seth Curry looked really really fine -- shooting, defense and ball handling.

5. I enjoyed watching Tyler Thornton, but he definately will struggle some seeing over bigger players and wide armspans. Does anyone else notice how close to the half court line he plays when he starts to dribble around to help set up the offense? I had noted it on TV, but its really apparent live. Good news is that it really spreads the floor. Bad news is that it gives naifs like me a constant state of anxiety that he will get an "over and back" penalty!

6. Free throw shooting sucked. I am having a hard time adjusting to not having a truly excellent free throw shooting team.

7. Seeing the 2010 NCAA Championship banner hung next to the other 3 was "awesome, baby!"

[MChambers]

Miles played fine, although as someone else noted, he was really overplaying the defense. I'm sure that was a coaching decision, but it did lead to some scores when he couldn't get back and there was an open lane.
I agree it was a coaching decision. My son and I were shocked how aggressively he was overplaying entry passes. On the other hand, on several occasions, although his overplay several times left a State big alone with the ball 15 or 18 feet from the basket, the States bigs didn't seem to know what to with the ball in that situation. They'd just stand there holding the ball, thinking, "Now what do I do?"