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bluepenguin
02-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Mods: The current thread has gotten so long it is very difficult to search through the chaff to find new info. Could we create a new thread now that the cast is off and rehab is starting?

bluepenguin
02-05-2011, 01:16 PM
Apologize if this has been linked already, but the Kyrie thread has gotten so long it is hard to find what is current. This article was published in fayobserver yesterday. Good article on what Kyrie has meant to the team even while on the bench.
http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/02/04/1068562?sac=Home

OldPhiKap
02-05-2011, 01:27 PM
Apologize if this has been linked already, but the Kyrie thread has gotten so long it is hard to find what is current. This article was published in fayobserver yesterday. Good article on what Kyrie has meant to the team even while on the bench.
http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/02/04/1068562?sac=Home

Agreed. Toe, Phase II.

Good article, btw. What a solid kid. Proud to call him a Blue Devil, regardless of whether he gets to play again or not. Proud to be associated in any way.

Having said that -- HEAL TOE!!

NashvilleDevil
02-05-2011, 05:05 PM
A friend of mine is at the game today and said that Kyrie took a shot and Cameron went nuts. Obviously this has nothing to do with his rehab just thought I would pass it on.

moonpie23
02-05-2011, 06:57 PM
A friend of mine is at the game today and said that Kyrie took a shot and Cameron went nuts. Obviously this has nothing to do with his rehab just thought I would pass it on.

did he make it?

davekay1971
02-05-2011, 07:01 PM
did he make it?

Of course he did!

Everything I read about Kyrie makes me like that kid more and more.

Whether Kyrie makes it back to playing this year or not; whether he decides to return next year or not, he's represented this University in the most admirable way imaginable, both on court and off.

NSDukeFan
02-05-2011, 07:08 PM
Of course he did!

Everything I read about Kyrie makes me like that kid more and more.

Whether Kyrie makes it back to playing this year or not; whether he decides to return next year or not, he's represented this University in the most admirable way imaginable, both on court and off.

Agreed. If he ends up one-and-done (and I hope not), he definitely unpacked his bags.

watzone
02-05-2011, 08:34 PM
http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/02/coach-k-updates-kyrie-irvings-status/ K's comments on KI's toe situation.

gcashwell
02-05-2011, 08:47 PM
So if he is not going to be back in 3 weeks as K said, I can only assume it will be 4.

77devil
02-05-2011, 08:49 PM
http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/02/coach-k-updates-kyrie-irvings-status/ K's comments on KI's toe situation.

Coach K: "Weíve been straight forward with this from the very beginning and itís not going to be some miraculous thing where it heals in three weeks. Thatís not going to happen, believe me.Ē

Well it's been 8 weeks already so I presume he means not 3 weeks from now. Who can be sure? We'll just have to wait and see.

sdotbarbee
02-05-2011, 09:08 PM
So 3 weeks is the VT game so we can expect him back by the Clemson game or the unc game at the latest. :)

OZZIE4DUKE
02-05-2011, 09:20 PM
Coach Krzyzewski made a point to emphasize that Duke isnít hiding anything. ďI donít tell you [media] everything but we donít hide an injury. Weíve been straight forward with this from the very beginning and itís not going to be some miraculous thing where it heals in three weeks. Thatís not going to happen, believe me.Ē
Well this does tend to put my February 20th date in doubt, especially since 3 weeks from Feb. 5th is Feb 26th. But what the heck. As Al Michaels once asked, "Do you believe in miracles?" Yes I do! :cool: Heal toe, heal!

devildeac
02-05-2011, 09:30 PM
Well this does tend to put my February 20th date in doubt, especially since 3 weeks from Feb. 5th is Feb 26th. But what the heck. As Al Michaels once asked, "Do you believe in miracles?" Yes I do! :cool: Heal toe, heal!

And there was the "op-toe-mistic" chant in the 2nd half.;)

Cell-R
02-06-2011, 01:21 AM
A friend of mine is at the game today and said that Kyrie took a shot and Cameron went nuts. Obviously this has nothing to do with his rehab just thought I would pass it on.

I don't think he actually shot the ball. We cheered for him to... He acted like he was about to but then he passed it off and shook his head. Had a huge smile on his face though :D

OZZIE4DUKE
02-06-2011, 02:30 AM
I don't think he actually shot the ball. We cheered for him to... He acted like he was about to but then he passed it off and shook his head. Had a huge smile on his face though :D

He shoots in practice. Even last week with the cast still on.

MarkD83
02-06-2011, 06:18 AM
I think Coach K should have Kyrie suit up for the UNC game just to see the panic on Ole Roy's face.

WVDUKEFAN
02-06-2011, 07:52 AM
I have really tried to stay positive (I refuse to use the word op toe mistic) through this whole thing, but I'm starting to believe we should accept the fact he won't be back. At least not this year. I hope I'm wrong.

Cell-R
02-06-2011, 11:24 AM
He shoots in practice. Even last week with the cast still on.

Yeah, I know he shoots at practice - but he didn't shoot at the game last night like the original poster said.

swood1000
02-06-2011, 11:48 AM
When/if he plays again this season they'll probably have him suit up under his sweats, and then dramatically take the sweats off at an opportune moment. OK, well I never denied being a dreamer!

NashvilleDevil
02-07-2011, 07:42 AM
Kyrie tweeted that he Nolan are getting in an early morning workout. Now I know that's not huge news but I wanted to bump this thread back to the first page.

moonpie23
02-07-2011, 07:50 AM
i have no idea about his rehab, but i would venture to say they probably have him in the pool a good deal....low impact, great cardio........

OZZIE4DUKE
02-07-2011, 08:35 AM
Kyrie tweeted that he Nolan are getting in an early morning workout. Now I know that's not huge news but I wanted to bump this thread back to the first page.
Now I for one would love to know what this workout entails. Is he walking on his foot without any aid? If so, how much weight is he putting on it? I wouldn't expect him to be jogging (or running) on it for several (or many) days yet.

DevilWearsPrada
02-07-2011, 08:47 AM
Ozzie, do you want me to go over to the practice facility and give a first hand report back? and take pictures again?

WE need Kyrie for the Tarhole game....... i know he isnt ready. But its just wishful thinking.

dukefan75
02-07-2011, 01:24 PM
And now for your weekly Kyrie Irving update. Last Friday, when doctors removed the cast that was protecting Irving's injured toe, some people interpreted it as a breakthrough. It was a milestone, but it was not a breakthrough. This step has long been part of the plan, so the only notable news is that doctors did not push back the date. From what I hear they are encouraged by the way Irving is healing, but he still has to undergo a full month of rehabilitation before anyone has a realistic idea of whether he'll be able to play this season.

Irving has been doing a lot of strength work the last few weeks, so now he has to work on his legs and that foot. The situation remains very fluid and hard to predict because Irving is basically suffering from turf toe, which is primarily a football injury, so there's very little precedent. It's even more difficult to predict what will happen because Mike Krzyzewski keeps insisting Irving will not return this season -- not because he really believes it, but because Coach K doesn't want his team to hinder its development based on that hope. He did the same thing when Elton Brand broke his foot as a freshman. All season long, Krzyzewski insisted Brand would not come back, yet he was in uniform on the last weekend of the regular season. So the bottom line is, I still do not anticipate Irving coming back, but there remains a slim chance that he and the team will have a very interesting decision to make around the start of the ACC tournament.



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/02/07/hoop.thoughts/index.html#ixzz1DIpgoBfy

bluepenguin
02-07-2011, 01:38 PM
From GoDuke.com:
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/b88Mv

(even has a clip of the cast being removed!)

WVDUKEFAN
02-07-2011, 02:46 PM
The video at www.goduke.com was great. It demonstrates what a great young man he truly is. All we can do is continue to hope the rehab goes well and he'll be back in uniform at the end of the year.

bjornolf
02-07-2011, 03:05 PM
Hey, he said he was going to be here until he wins a title. I'm willing to wait another season for that. :D I really think the smart thing for his future both at Duke and beyond is to shut him down for the season and concentrate on the rehab. I'd rather have him 100% next season with zero chance of hurting it worse than push him back too early and risk his career for the dubious possible chance of another trophy. Everybody got a ring last year. Besides, the team is really starting to gel without him. There aren't really any dominant teams out there. We've got a shot, even without him.

Of course, if the doctors decide later that he IS 100% healed with no chance of hurting it worse, then I say, "Welcome back!"

IBleedBlue
02-07-2011, 03:43 PM
Hey, he said he was going to be here until he wins a title. I'm willing to wait another season for that. :D I really think the smart thing for his future both at Duke and beyond is to shut him down for the season and concentrate on the rehab.

What if we win the championship this year? :cool:

I think what you stated is what Duke staff are doing at this time. Shut him down and rehab ...

diveonthefloor
02-08-2011, 10:06 AM
Is it a HIPAA or other rules violation for anyone who has seen KI workout these last two days to divulge any info?

I wonder when he will actually set foot on the court, even if it's just to practice foul shots?

tommy
02-08-2011, 10:55 AM
Is it a HIPAA or other rules violation for anyone who has seen KI workout these last two days to divulge any info?

Not HIPAA. HIPAA, while dense and complex, essentially applies to "covered entities" which are defined primarily to include health plans, health care clearinghouses, such as billing services and community health information systems, and health care providers that transmit health care data in a way that is regulated by HIPAA. I don't believe it covers guys hanging around a gym.

So. Anyone?

DukeFanSince1990
02-08-2011, 10:59 AM
Not HIPAA. HIPAA, while dense and complex, essentially applies to "covered entities" which are defined primarily to include health plans, health care clearinghouses, such as billing services and community health information systems, and health care providers that transmit health care data in a way that is regulated by HIPAA. I don't believe it covers guys hanging around a gym.

So. Anyone?

Your right, I am a Systems Administrator in a health care facility. HIPAA only applies to health care workers. I had to sign off on HIPAA even though I just work with the network.

millerecu
02-08-2011, 12:10 PM
but would would ole roy do if Kyrie was dressed out tomorrow? Would he faint right then and there.....Gosh darn heck....would all Carolina fans just start jumping off bridges? Again I know its not going to happen but a man can dream big!

diveonthefloor
02-08-2011, 12:58 PM
but would would ole roy do if Kyrie was dressed out tomorrow? Would he faint right then and there.....Gosh darn heck....would all Carolina fans just start jumping off bridges? Again I know its not going to happen but a man can dream big!

Actually, I think K would be the more likely one to faint. :)

licc85
02-08-2011, 06:38 PM
What if we win the championship this year?

If this happens, he's prob the #1 pick and he should go (if he wants to). . . I mean, if 15 games is all we get out of him, but he leads us to a 5th championship, who's to say it didn't work out perfectly?

Duke76
02-08-2011, 07:22 PM
that video doesn't work for me...does he really say he's coming back until he wins a championship??





Hey, he said he was going to be here until he wins a title. I'm willing to wait another season for that. :D I really think the smart thing for his future both at Duke and beyond is to shut him down for the season and concentrate on the rehab. I'd rather have him 100% next season with zero chance of hurting it worse than push him back too early and risk his career for the dubious possible chance of another trophy. Everybody got a ring last year. Besides, the team is really starting to gel without him. There aren't really any dominant teams out there. We've got a shot, even without him.

Of course, if the doctors decide later that he IS 100% healed with no chance of hurting it worse, then I say, "Welcome back!"

davekay1971
02-08-2011, 07:25 PM
Chris Collins was interviewed on Charlotte's 610 AM this morning (the Mack Attack program) and, while the majority of the interview was about the upcoming Carolina game and the development of the team in general, he was asked about Kyrie.

Not much new info. He basically said that it was already February, it's a long rehab process to get back to being ready to play, that the clock was against it happening this year. When asked if the coaching staff was repeating that he probably wouldn't be back partially to reinforce to the team that they had to learn to win with what they have available now, he admitted that that might be a small part of it, but basically the coaching staff was also working on the expectation that it was unlikely he would make it back.

So, no new news. Collins was, as always, an excellent and classy interview.

billyj
02-09-2011, 02:03 AM
Let the speculation begin! :) Here is what KI twitted on Feb 7th.

Early workout with my bro @NdotSmitty...
8:07 AM Feb 7th via Echofon

DukeGirl4ever
02-09-2011, 06:54 AM
Is it a HIPAA or other rules violation for anyone who has seen KI workout these last two days to divulge any info?

I wonder when he will actually set foot on the court, even if it's just to practice foul shots?

I would find it hard to believe he hasn't been out on the court all along shooting some close range shots. If the cast had his toe immobilized, why not?

After tearing my ACL and having surgery, I was out shooting lay-ups, close range shots about a month afterwards, but that's because the surgery was so drastic. After having it scoped, I was out shooting 2 days later.

Now, I know nothing about toe injuries, but I would think he'd be shooting based on what I have seen with other injuries. Anyone know anything different?

KenTankerous
02-09-2011, 07:07 AM
Have I missed something regarding Irving EVER indicating he was of the one-and-done mind set? I mean, aside from a few semi-paranoid speculations on this board and idle gossip on ESPN?

Maybe I'm too pollyannaish but from what I have seen of this young man - his commitment to his team, his health, his faith, his intellect - all these things point to a young man destined to be a Senior Class candidate in 2014.

Call me naive, but I don't think NBA money means as much to Kyrie as the Duke experience. And I think this injury, well, the recovery process, shows that Duke is the best place to deal with worst cases.

Which brings up a point being ignored by the media and basketball world: Krzyzewski's program is inherently geared toward the good of the student athlete. And the program isn't just competitive, it is the standard by which other elite programs measure themselves.

Take it from me, a Kentucky fan watching Calipayme drive us toward vacated sweet sixteen appearances, count your blessings, blue devils. You've much to be proud of over there in Durham.

JasonEvans
02-09-2011, 08:15 AM
Have I missed something regarding Irving EVER indicating he was of the one-and-done mind set? I mean, aside from a few semi-paranoid speculations on this board and idle gossip on ESPN?

Maybe I'm too pollyannaish but from what I have seen of this young man - his commitment to his team, his health, his faith, his intellect - all these things point to a young man destined to be a Senior Class candidate in 2014.

Call me naive, but I don't think NBA money means as much to Kyrie as the Duke experience. And I think this injury, well, the recovery process, shows that Duke is the best place to deal with worst cases.

Which brings up a point being ignored by the media and basketball world: Krzyzewski's program is inherently geared toward the good of the student athlete. And the program isn't just competitive, it is the standard by which other elite programs measure themselves.

Take it from me, a Kentucky fan watching Calipayme drive us toward vacated sweet sixteen appearances, count your blessings, blue devils. You've much to be proud of over there in Durham.

Good to see you around these parts again, Ken. Your views are always welcome.

As for Kyrie and the NBA Draft, I don't think he has addressed it in any way since arriving at Duke but many of us feel there is a good chance he will leave based upon his draft stock. Even with the injury causing him to miss almost the entire season, Kyrie is rightly projected as one of the top 3 picks in the upcoming draft. It is exceedingly rare to see a kid turn down that kind of draft position to come back.

It happens, but not often. Many felt Ed Davis was a mid-lottery pick after his freshman campaign and he came back to Carolina for another year. Some felt Mason Plumlee could have gone in the lottery a year ago, but he was so raw and knew he needed so much development that he came back to Duke. Blake Griffin would have been a lote lottery pick after his freshman campaign but came back to Oklahoma and turned into the #1 pick in the draft the next season.

But none of those guys had stock quite as high as Kyrie. They were all going to be drafted based on raw size and athleticism in a big man, not on NBA readiness. They al would have spent a year or more on an NBA bench developing and figuring out the game. They decided it would be more fun and allow them to develop better by coming back to school.

Kyrie is somewhat different in that he is largely seen as NBA ready RIGHT NOW. He is not a raw, athletic post player. He is a guard with sublime skills and quickness. There is a difference.

Look, he could decide to come back. No one outside of his family really knows what he is thinking. Some say the injury has left him with unfinished business at Duke and he will come back to play alongside his buddy Austin Rivers. Some say the injury has put fear in him that he might never get to cash in on his tremendous talents and he will go to the NBA instead of risking further injury that could end his career before it ever gets started (though there are insurance policies that can take care of much of that risk).

We simply will not know the answer to this until mid-April, I suspect. It is encouraging that, by all signs, Kyrie remains engaged as a Duke student and is still attending classes. Plenty of kids make up their mind about the NBA and then stop going to class, essentially giving them no option except entering the draft. That is not Kyrie.

When the season is over, I am sure he will sit down with his family and with Coach K and figure out what he wants to do and what is best to do. Whatever he decides, whoever he is playing for, I will root for him like mad next season.

-Jason "I just hope we get to see more than 7 games of him playing for Duke" Evans

Duke of Nashville
02-09-2011, 08:22 AM
Good to see you around these parts again, Ken. Your views are always welcome.

As for Kyrie and the NBA Draft, I don't think he has addressed it in any way since arriving at Duke but many of us feel there is a good chance he will leave based upon his draft stock. Even with the injury causing him to miss almost the entire season, Kyrie is rightly projected as one of the top 3 picks in the upcoming draft. It is exceedingly rare to see a kid turn down that kind of draft position to come back.

It happens, but not often. Many felt Ed Davis was a mid-lottery pick after his freshman campaign and he came back to Carolina for another year. Some felt Mason Plumlee could have gone in the lottery a year ago, but he was so raw and knew he needed so much development that he came back to Duke. Blake Griffin would have been a lote lottery pick after his freshman campaign but came back to Oklahoma and turned into the #1 pick in the draft the next season.

But none of those guys had stock quite as high as Kyrie. They were all going to be drafted based on raw size and athleticism in a big man, not on NBA readiness. They al would have spent a year or more on an NBA bench developing and figuring out the game. They decided it would be more fun and allow them to develop better by coming back to school.

Kyrie is somewhat different in that he is largely seen as NBA ready RIGHT NOW. He is not a raw, athletic post player. He is a guard with sublime skills and quickness. There is a difference.

Look, he could decide to come back. No one outside of his family really knows what he is thinking. Some say the injury has left him with unfinished business at Duke and he will come back to play alongside his buddy Austin Rivers. Some say the injury has put fear in him that he might never get to cash in on his tremendous talents and he will go to the NBA instead of risking further injury that could end his career before it ever gets started (though there are insurance policies that can take care of much of that risk).

We simply will not know the answer to this until mid-April, I suspect. It is encouraging that, by all signs, Kyrie remains engaged as a Duke student and is still attending classes. Plenty of kids make up their mind about the NBA and then stop going to class, essentially giving them no option except entering the draft. That is not Kyrie.

When the season is over, I am sure he will sit down with his family and with Coach K and figure out what he wants to do and what is best to do. Whatever he decides, whoever he is playing for, I will root for him like mad next season.

-Jason "I just hope we get to see more than 7 games of him playing for Duke" Evans

With the first pick in the 2011 NBA draft the Cleveland Cavaliers select.....


Those words would be enough to deter me from entering my name but....

10 million a year would probably be another story....

Who knows? It's easy to talk about this with him being on the bench. However, I do not think I have ever had so much fun watching someone "cheerlead".

Never thought I'd say this but, Here's to a Kentucky fan being right.

uh_no
02-09-2011, 08:28 AM
Who knows? It's easy to talk about this with him being on the bench. However, I do not think I have ever had so much fun watching someone "cheerlead".


Coach K spoke to that last night, that how happy Kyrie appears is for his teammates. He said Kyrie's really been a bit sad that he can't be out there (as you can imagine) and that his support for his teammates really just shows what a strong person he is.

OldPhiKap
02-09-2011, 08:32 AM
With the first pick in the 2011 NBA draft the Cleveland Cavaliers select......

Talk about cold water in the face. Reminds me of when Danny Ferry chose to go to Italy as opposed to playing for the Clippers.

I hope to see him playing the end of this year as well as next year. He could be NPOY next year, heck he could have been it this year if he had stayed healthy. So there is something to prove here, and he may like college and K and the other players enough to want to stay for next year.

You only get to be young once. Money cannot buy back the experience of college.

uh_no
02-09-2011, 08:37 AM
Money cannot buy back the experience of college.

only in uk.....oh wait...that's buying back the experienced players

Duke of Nashville
02-09-2011, 08:40 AM
Talk about cold water in the face. Reminds me of when Danny Ferry chose to go to Italy as opposed to playing for the Clippers.

I hope to see him playing the end of this year as well as next year. He could be NPOY next year, heck he could have been it this year if he had stayed healthy. So there is something to prove here, and he may like college and K and the other players enough to want to stay for next year.

You only get to be young once. Money cannot buy back the experience of college.

Right! Someone posted a link to a Cav's message board (post injury I think) and they want Kyrie. The situation may not be a dreary as we perceive it to be. That town needs a player they can rely on. This would be one heck of a challenge, which may interest some players.

K also spoke about how Kyrie was the best guard in the country before he went down. There are plenty of items left on the table for Kyrie to go after: individual goals and team goals. However, this would also include heading to the NBA.

I agree with your thinking and the situation will be a fun one to follow. Either way Kyrie has been a great addition to the Duke Family and no doubt will be a great ambassador to the league.

Matches
02-09-2011, 08:52 AM
Money cannot buy back the experience of college.

With all due respect, it's very easy to say things like this when we're discussing *someone else's* money.

I have my suspicions about what Kyrie will do, but they're only that - suspicions. I'm always a little wary when fans profess to know what's going on in the head of someone they've never met. I can recall a UNC fan calling talk radio after the 2005 season, convinced that Felton would be returning, because (paraphrasing) he was a good kid and wouldn't want to leave UNC in the lurch for the following season. The caller didn't sound like he'd ever set foot on the UNC campus, but in his mind, he knew what someone he'd never met was thinking.

re: the Cavs - they have only a 25% chance of getting the top pick, per the NBA's bizarre lottery system, and chances are good they'll be in the exact same position next year.

swood1000
02-09-2011, 08:53 AM
Call me naive, but I don't think NBA money means as much to Kyrie as the Duke experience.

It wouldn't be the first time that the non-monetary choice has been made.


But all three of us are ultimately going to take less money because we wanted to all play alongside each other, and we feel like we can be great together. LeBron James. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5365165Of course, when you already have more money than you can spend in a lifetime it becomes easier to make this kind of choice.

PADukeMom
02-09-2011, 09:08 AM
Ill wager a Nolan Smith jersey that Kyrie is in a DUKE uniform for 2011-12 season.

Bluedog
02-09-2011, 09:10 AM
FWIW, before the season began, Kyrie's high school buddy in a chat (or was it twitter?) exchange was like "259 days until your dreams!" or something to that effect. That was the number of days until the NBA Draft. Kyrie responded like "shhhh, you can't say that online! Keep it on the dl." In any event, it seems like Kyrie went into the mindset that his ultimate goal was to be NBA ready after a year of college when he was going into the season. Certainly, his injury and other factors could play into a decision and it's possible he has changed his mind, but that was at least my impression going in.

And for the record so we don't have this debate next year, Austin Rivers has explicitly stated it's his goal to be drafted after his freshman campaign.

Austin:
I would love to be a one-and-done. I think thatís every kidís goal whether he admits it or not. But my ultimate goal is to go at the right time. If thatís after one year then so be it. If itís two years then thatís fine too. Iím in no rush. The reason I say after one year is because that would mean that I was playing to my maximum potential and thatís always my goal when I step on the court.

http://dimemag.com/2010/07/austin-rivers-h-s-hoop-diary-duke-unc-and-one-and-done/

uh_no
02-09-2011, 09:13 AM
FWIW, before the season began, Kyrie's high school buddy in a chat (or was it twitter?) exchange was like "259 days until your dreams!" or something to that effect. That was the number of days until the NBA Draft. Kyrie responded like "shhhh, you can't say that online! Keep it on the dl." In any event, it seems like Kyrie went into the mindset that his ultimate goal was to be NBA ready after a year of college when he was going into the season. Certainly, his injury and other factors could play into a decision and it's possible he has changed his mind, but that was at least my impression going in.

And for the record so we don't have this debate next year, Austin Rivers has explicitly stated it's his goal to be drafted after his freshman campaign.

Austin:

http://dimemag.com/2010/07/austin-rivers-h-s-hoop-diary-duke-unc-and-one-and-done/

Nobody envisioned Kyle would be here for 4 years, maybe his goal wasn't 1 year like these guys have been clear about, but he's said the goal is the NBA, but when he got here he enjoyed it so much he wantedto stay 4 years. Nobody knows what kyrie is thinking. As with all players, I'd love to see him back, but if he can make the jump and that's where he decides to be in his life, good luck, proud that you were a blue devil.

sdotbarbee
02-09-2011, 09:21 AM
Nobody envisioned Kyle would be here for 4 years, maybe his goal wasn't 1 year like these guys have been clear about, but he's said the goal is the NBA, but when he got here he enjoyed it so much he wantedto stay 4 years. Nobody knows what kyrie is thinking. As with all players, I'd love to see him back, but if he can make the jump and that's where he decides to be in his life, good luck, proud that you were a blue devil.

Just look at Andrew Luck, #1 pick, his stock couldn't get any higher and he decides he loves college and wants to go back. It happens, guys feel like they have unfinished business and want to go take care of it and it's not always about the money. If Kyrie comes back this year and we win a title I see him jumping to the NBA, but if he doesn't come back and we don't win a title maybe that unfinished business brings him back. No one knows but Kyrie and I will respect his decision either way.

Indoor66
02-09-2011, 09:38 AM
No one knows but Kyrie and I will respect his decision either way.

I think you hit on the point here. It is up to Kyrie as to what is right for him - in his own mind. My values/desires/wishes have no import or impact on Kyrie's right to his own mind.

Lord Ash
02-09-2011, 09:52 AM
FWIW, before the season began, Kyrie's high school buddy in a chat (or was it twitter?) exchange was like "259 days until your dreams!" or something to that effect. That was the number of days until the NBA Draft. Kyrie responded like "shhhh, you can't say that online! Keep it on the dl." In any event, it seems like Kyrie went into the mindset that his ultimate goal was to be NBA ready after a year of college when he was going into the season. Certainly, his injury and other factors could play into a decision and it's possible he has changed his mind, but that was at least my impression going in.


I remember this as well, and being dispirited by it. However, that was before Kyrie got to Duke, and before the injury, so I am not sure Kyrie necessarily feels the same way now.

jimsumner
02-09-2011, 10:05 AM
Call it semi-paranoid speculation if you wish, but I would be very, very surprised to see Irving at Duke next season.

wilko
02-09-2011, 10:11 AM
I think it would be great motivation/inspiration for the team and the home crowd to have KI dressed to play. However, I have no delusions he will actually take the court tonight.

Or any other night.
I think KI is gone. Hes a top 5 pick just off 8 games in a Duke uni. Why risk exposing flaws in his game or re-injury? I get that side of it.

I also get that players wanna play and compete. Players wanna play with other great players. This injury dealie... he may very well feel shortchanged on collegiate experience and want to do it again injury free. ESPECIALLY considering his HS team was not allowed to play for the NJ state title (or something to that effect) I can understand a guy wanting to prove something and get a ring.

I want him back too..

But I think a look at the old check-book balance will help focus the issue for the Irvings.

JasonEvans
02-09-2011, 10:28 AM
Just look at Andrew Luck, #1 pick, his stock couldn't get any higher and he decides he loves college and wants to go back. It happens, guys feel like they have unfinished business and want to go take care of it and it's not always about the money. If Kyrie comes back this year and we win a title I see him jumping to the NBA, but if he doesn't come back and we don't win a title maybe that unfinished business brings him back. No one knows but Kyrie and I will respect his decision either way.

If Kyrie wants to know a bit about what it is like to make a decision to give up millions to stay in school, he only needs to look at the guy wearing #12 for Duke this season.

Singler may not have been a high lottery pick, but he was going to be a first-rounder if he had come out. Instead, he came back.

--Jason "that said, like most folks in this thread, I expect Kyrie to leave and totally understand if that is his decision" Evans

gam7
02-09-2011, 10:51 AM
If Kyrie wants to know a bit about what it is like to make a decision to give up millions to stay in school, he only needs to look at the guy wearing #12 for Duke this season.

Singler may not have been a high lottery pick, but he was going to be a first-rounder if he had come out. Instead, he came back.

--Jason "that said, like most folks in this thread, I expect Kyrie to leave and totally understand if that is his decision" Evans

The last Duke point guard from New Jersey also might have something to say on the matter.

gam7
02-09-2011, 11:11 AM
10 million a year would probably be another story....

According to the rookie scale for next year, the first pick would make $4.4M. There's some room for negotiation, but not much. Here's the full scale for next year (which, of course, almost certainly will change with a new CBA): http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9303

swood1000
02-09-2011, 11:25 AM
As long as we're clutching at the most minute of straws there was this exchange on Twitter some time back:



Quote Originally Posted by LBJFlight23
QCook323 Quinn Cook
And if @kyrieirving stays...whoooooooohhh #tufff! RiP DAD!

kyrieirving Kyrie Irving
@
@QCook323 yessir!!!

AustinRivers25 Austin Rivers
@
@QCook323 yes sir! You already know what it is! We going to do it to the fullest bro! Let's get it!!
Now, when Rivers said "You already know what it is!" it sounded to me like he was interpreting Kyrie as stating that he has already made the decision to stay. Others have told me "No, no, no...that doesn't mean that at all. It just means something like 'For sure, I agree that it would be great if we played together'." Any dialecticians in residence?

ChicagoCrazy84
02-09-2011, 11:26 AM
Call it semi-paranoid speculation if you wish, but I would be very, very surprised to see Irving at Duke next season.


We can sit here giving our own opinions on why we think he'll stay or go until the cows come home. Really though, is this talk productive? Im not saying you Jim in particular, but honestly, no one knows where his heart is at at the moment and how its changed (if any) since the injury. He'll talk to Coach K and his family after the season and iron out what is best. I am sure Coach K would be very supportive either way.

mkirsh
02-09-2011, 11:35 AM
Call me naive, but I don't think NBA money means as much to Kyrie as the Duke experience. And I think this injury, well, the recovery process, shows that Duke is the best place to deal with worst cases.


I'm sure I'm not alone on this board in preferring college hoops to the NBA, but I think it's a bit unfair to imply that playing in the NBA is only about money. A lot of kids want to play at the highest level on the biggest stage, etc regardless of the money involved. If Kyrie goes pro I wouldn't necessarily think he's selling out his Duke experience just for money, but fulfilling a lifelong dream to test his skills amongst the best in the world. I'm sure it is a tough decision, but not just college vs money.

swood1000
02-09-2011, 11:37 AM
According to the rookie scale for next year, the first pick would make $4.4M. There's some room for negotiation, but not much. Here's the full scale for next year (which, of course, almost certainly will change with a new CBA): http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9303

Does somebody have a link to the insurance option? Is it available to cover these kinds of amounts?

CharlestonDevil
02-09-2011, 11:51 AM
I'm sure I'm not alone on this board in preferring college hoops to the NBA, but I think it's a bit unfair to imply that playing in the NBA is only about money. A lot of kids want to play at the highest level on the biggest stage, etc regardless of the money involved. If Kyrie goes pro I wouldn't necessarily think he's selling out his Duke experience just for money, but fulfilling a lifelong dream to test his skills amongst the best in the world. I'm sure it is a tough decision, but not just college vs money.

Duke's selling point to Austin Rivers (well one of the many) was that he would be on national TV more than the Miami Heat (i.e. Lebron.) Duke still has a lot of positive factors such as this weighing in their favor with Kyrie's decision.

Money is a big issue, but I don't think it is as much to Kyrie as your average lottery pick/high prospect. Just look at the kid on the sidelines!

dpslaw
02-09-2011, 11:58 AM
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a lockout is pretty close to a foregone conclusion. If so, I think a number of underclassmen will have a much more difficult decision to make. Or perhaps an easier decision!

Pacer
02-09-2011, 12:06 PM
Tweets:

@stevewisemanNC
Drederick Irving said Kyrie's damaged bones and ligaments in right big toe have healed. Next step is rehab to see how toe responds.

@stevewisemanNC
Kyrie's father was in Durham last weekend, met with doctors and viewed MRI results. "Everyone is optimistic, including me," Dred Irving said

Bluedog
02-09-2011, 12:14 PM
Tweets:

@stevewisemanNC
Drederick Irving said Kyrie's damaged bones and ligaments in right big toe have healed. Next step is rehab to see how toe responds.

@stevewisemanNC
Kyrie's father was in Durham last weekend, met with doctors and viewed MRI results. "Everyone is optimistic, including me," Dred Irving said

Thanks for linking to those. The next tweet says "Dred Irving said top concern is getting Kyrie "110 percent" healthy before he thinks about playing again. #duke".

My question is does that mean 110 percent healed or that Kyrie is back to 110 percent strength/form in his toe? Based on that somewhat vague first tweet, it sounds like the toe is nearly 100 percent healed. He clearly has lost some flexibility and strength, however, so won't be ready to return. But based on his father's wording, it sounds like he doesn't want Kyrie to play unless he has fully regained 100% strength in the toe (although making that comparison would prove pretty much impossible unless they did toe strength tests before the injury), even if it's technically 100% healed. Just saying there's a distinction between 100% healed and completely 100% "back-to-normal." Am I overanalyzing this? I would hope Kyrie plays when the toe is 100% healed and there's no risk of re-injury, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be back to his pre-injury form.

gam7
02-09-2011, 12:27 PM
Am I overanalyzing this?

Yes. :)

nocilla
02-09-2011, 12:30 PM
*speculative conspiracy warning*

Didn't his father originally say 100%? Maybe he was surprised that it has healed as well as it has but still doesn't want Kyrie to play, fearing another injury, so he bumped his requirements up to 110%. To me, if it is healed, then it is just a matter of building up the strength in his toes/foot which I think he has time to do and still make a return. Or maybe I'm just overly op(toe)mistic?

mkline09
02-09-2011, 12:33 PM
*speculative conspiracy warning*

Didn't his father originally say 100%? Maybe he was surprised that it has healed as well as it has but still doesn't want Kyrie to play, fearing another injury, so he bumped his requirements up to 110%. To me, if it is healed, then it is just a matter of building up the strength in his toes/foot which I think he has time to do and still make a return. Or maybe I'm just overly op(toe)mistic?

Seeing as there is no such thing as 110 percent, since you can't have more than a whole, that Kyrie's dad is simply using hyperbole to emphasize that they want to make sure he is all the way healed before he plays or thinks about playing again.

wilko
02-09-2011, 12:35 PM
Am I overanalyzing this? I would hope Kyrie plays when the toe is 100% healed and there's no risk of re-injury, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be back to his pre-injury form.

I think perhaps you are trying a bit too hard...

I cant blame Dred Irving one bit for looking out for his son's best interest... that's his JOB and his right as a parent. Good for him!

Most of us have different choices to help our kids make...
Do I let my reckless, irresponsible teenage (too redundant?) son get the red sports car he wants... or the used volvo wagon he is less likely to kill himself with..

I'm sure KI wants to be in the game tonight. But you sometimes have to put that aside and do the smart thing.. and your parents should help you with identifying what the "smart" things are.

Matches
02-09-2011, 12:37 PM
Seeing as there is no such thing as 110 percent, since you can't have more than a whole, that Kyrie's dad is simply using hyperbole to emphasize that they want to make sure he is all the way healed before he plays or thinks about playing again.

You underestimate the skill of the DUMC staff. With their latest scientific and medical breakthroughs, they can now achieve 110% efficiency. :cool:

mkline09
02-09-2011, 12:39 PM
You underestimate the skill of the DUMC staff. With their latest scientific and medical breakthroughs, they can now achieve 110% efficiency. :cool:

I thought was only if they used stem cells from Nate James.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-09-2011, 12:40 PM
*speculative conspiracy warning*

Didn't his father originally say 100%? Maybe he was surprised that it has healed as well as it has but still doesn't want Kyrie to play, fearing another injury, so he bumped his requirements up to 110%. To me, if it is healed, then it is just a matter of building up the strength in his toes/foot which I think he has time to do and still make a return. Or maybe I'm just overly op(toe)mistic?

Well I think in a way, building up the strength and flexibility is all part of the healing process. It helps put less pressure on the once damaged area and helps prevent damage in the future. It's an injury, I don't think a toe or any other part of the human body to heal beyond the normal realm of possibility :)

Mike Corey
02-09-2011, 12:45 PM
So far, so good.

Now let's see if his toe responds to rehab.

But this is very encouraging, no?

Indoor66
02-09-2011, 12:47 PM
I thought was only if they used stem cells from Nate James.

Naaah - from Patrick Davidson.

mkline09
02-09-2011, 12:48 PM
So far, so good.

Now let's see if his toe responds to rehab.

But this is very encouraging, no?

Agreed. Extremely encouraging considering most of what we've heard up until now hasn't painted as rosey a picture.

It sounds like there is a small chance since the window on rehab is small, but it is a chance none-the-less.

UrinalCake
02-09-2011, 12:50 PM
Forget 110%. Let's get that thing up to 200% healed!

mkline09
02-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Forget 110%. Let's get that thing up to 200% healed!

Nate would have to give up his whole toe for that kind of efficency.

Matches
02-09-2011, 12:53 PM
Nate would have to give up his whole toe for that kind of efficency.

Nate would do it.

Without anesthetic.

mkline09
02-09-2011, 12:54 PM
Nate would do it.

Without anesthetic.

He'd cut both off just so they match.

snowdenscold
02-09-2011, 01:14 PM
I think there's a big difference between a stud debating staying for his senior year vs. staying for his sophomore year. So these comparisons to Singler, Luck, etc. aren't really fair.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-09-2011, 02:14 PM
Who here thinks we would put him back in the lineup come NCAA Tourney time if he was held out during the ACC Tourney? I say we would starting with 15-20 min off the bench in the 1st round to see how he looks, then go from there.

Coach K and the staff may have different sentiments, but if we draw a dangerous team come sweet 16, I have a hard time believing we would hold him out if he's cleared to go.

I mean, let's be honest here with each other. Brandon Roy is going to be playing with Portland 3 weeks post op from double knee surgery. I think a toe can be good to go with 1 1/2 months of rehab :D

stillcrazie
02-09-2011, 02:32 PM
Who here thinks we would put him back in the lineup come NCAA Tourney time if he was held out during the ACC Tourney? I say we would starting with 15-20 min off the bench in the 1st round to see how he looks, then go from there.

Coach K and the staff may have different sentiments, but if we draw a dangerous team come sweet 16, I have a hard time believing we would hold him out if he's cleared to go.

I mean, let's be honest here with each other. Brandon Roy is going to be playing with Portland 3 weeks post op from double knee surgery. I think a toe can be good to go with 1 1/2 months of rehab :D

Well, it may depend on how he does in practice. If he can practice at full strength by then and if he is working out well with the team, it could be possible.

DukieinSoCal
02-09-2011, 02:34 PM
I think we all know that Coach K is putting the worst possible scenario out there constantly because he wants the team to focus on who's healthy now and prepare as if Kyrie won't come back.
From the latest news, it sounds very promising that KI will be back on the court sometime next month. There's still plenty of time to rehab. Sounds like the trainers have been staying on top of his cardio, too. Being such a young athlete, I doubt it will be too hard for KI to get back into game shape within a few weeks.

Kewlswim
02-09-2011, 07:01 PM
Hi,

Last year I had carpal tunnel in my big toe (repetitive stress injury--as a word of warning don't Spin at high intensity levels on keyser bikes five-six times a week). Besides being in pain and walking being hard (and being able to meet the orthopedist to the Golden State Warriors, San Francisco Ballet, and various professional athletes from all over the bay and beyond) nothing very good came from the experience.

However, once the inflammation went down and it wasn't (too) painful to get back out there and exercise, I did. It took a lot less time than I thought to be back to 100% (and only Spinning 3-4 times a week), so an athlete like Kyrie who is a lot younger than I--well, I am very bullish on his return. Nevertheless, I am not a doctor nor do I pretend to know how long Kyrie will take to be on the court.

GO DUKE!

kmspeaks
02-09-2011, 09:33 PM
As long as we're clutching at the most minute of straws there was this exchange on Twitter some time back:

Now, when Rivers said "You already know what it is!" it sounded to me like he was interpreting Kyrie as stating that he has already made the decision to stay. Others have told me "No, no, no...that doesn't mean that at all. It just means something like 'For sure, I agree that it would be great if we played together'." Any dialecticians in residence?

Austin's comment should not be taken to mean anything about Kyrie's decision. The best translation would be something closer to "Yep you're right, it would be awesome if that happened!"

dukebluelemur
02-10-2011, 03:41 PM
Jay Williams on Sportsnation just now. After spending some time with the Duke team, he said there's a chance KI could be back before the ACC tourney.

Not sure K would want that kind of optoemisim getting expressed, re: creating expectations, but man, it would be great to get him back WITH time before the NCAAs to work him back in.

millerecu
02-10-2011, 03:54 PM
We did not have to use the excuse last night that Carowina won because Kyrie was hurt.....AND we get to go beat up on them in their own house WITH Kyrie. Oh how that would warm my heart!


* I was obviously refering to the Lawson excuse!

Class of '94
02-10-2011, 03:59 PM
Jay Williams on Sportsnation just now. After spending some time with the Duke team, he said there's a chance KI could be back before the ACC tourney.

Not sure K would want that kind of optoemisim getting expressed, re: creating expectations, but man, it would be great to get him back WITH time before the NCAAs to work him back in.

While this can give us all hope, the key phrase was "there's a chance". I don't think K would have a probem with what Jay said because it doesn't contradict anytning that has been already said or give false hope. A "chance" doesn't mean that it will happen and we can't assume that it is a lock to happen. Again, it all depends on how well "the toe" responds to rehab. If the rehab goes well, there's "a chance" Kyrie could play before the ACC tourney/March.

moonpie23
02-10-2011, 04:02 PM
there's a "chance" that monkeys will fly outta my butt, however, i'm not worried about it...

Devil07
02-10-2011, 04:07 PM
While this can give us all hope, the key phrase was "there's a chance". I don't think K would have a probem with what Jay said because it doesn't contradict anytning that has been already said or give false hope. A "chance" doesn't mean that it will happen and we can't assume that it is a lock to happen. Again, it all depends on how well "the toe" responds to rehab. If the rehab goes well, there's "a chance" Kyrie could play before the ACC tourney/March.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

jimsumner
02-10-2011, 04:21 PM
there's a "chance" that monkeys will fly outta my butt, however, i'm not worried about it...

I'd be. :)

dukejim1
02-10-2011, 04:39 PM
there's a "chance" that monkeys will fly outta my butt, however, i'm not worried about it...

I think I would rather have turf toe relapse than that

diveonthefloor
02-10-2011, 06:36 PM
For anyone who hangs out around the basketball facilities on campus, has anyone seen Kyrie doing anything athletic with weight on his injured foot?

weezie
02-10-2011, 06:49 PM
there's a "chance" that monkeys will fly outta my butt, however, i'm not worried about it...

That would definitely scare me...and make me queasy at the same time.

And, Kyrie did some super jumping, cheerleader style last night, only to be admonished by the team trainer.
Phooey, no fun team trainer guy.

Bluedog
02-10-2011, 08:58 PM
Jay Williams on Sportsnation just now. After spending some time with the Duke team, he said there's a chance KI could be back before the ACC tourney.

Not sure K would want that kind of optoemisim getting expressed, re: creating expectations, but man, it would be great to get him back WITH time before the NCAAs to work him back in.

Jay Williams said something else interesting a couple days ago on the David Glen show that I feel nobody else has mentioned, but is a good point. He said that from an NBA tryout perspective, Kyrie exceeded expectations and his draft status is as high as it can be. If Kyrie comes back and doesn't perform up to those same standards, his status cacan only go down. Thus, Kyrie doesn't have as much incentive to come back if he's less than 100%. Of course, he wants to play and contribute with a chance for a national championship, but we can't deny that his father and others might also consider how him playing at not 100% might affect his future prospects. In any event, thought it was an interesting point coming from Jay.

Kfanarmy
02-10-2011, 11:41 PM
there's a "chance" that monkeys will fly outta my butt, however, i'm not worried about it... for some extra strength depends

ChicagoCrazy84
02-11-2011, 12:41 AM
For anyone who hangs out around the basketball facilities on campus, has anyone seen Kyrie doing anything athletic with weight on his injured foot?


You gotta remember he JUST got his cast off. If he is doing anything on his foot right now, its probably nothing more than light jogging.

jammsb
02-11-2011, 02:51 AM
Has anybody seen him walking? Does he look comfortable? Does he have any sort of limp?

Bluedevil114
02-11-2011, 05:43 AM
Jay Williams said something else interesting a couple days ago on the David Glen show that I feel nobody else has mentioned, but is a good point. He said that from an NBA tryout perspective, Kyrie exceeded expectations and his draft status is as high as it can be. If Kyrie comes back and doesn't perform up to those same standards, his status cacan only go down. Thus, Kyrie doesn't have as much incentive to come back if he's less than 100%. Of course, he wants to play and contribute with a chance for a national championship, but we can't deny that his father and others might also consider how him playing at not 100% might affect his future prospects. In any event, thought it was an interesting point coming from Jay.

This is 100% true but I think we are speaking of a kid who loves to play basketball, loves his teammates and loves Duke. He is a competitve guy and wants to be out on the floor to win. Kyrie knows he is going to the NBA and the NBA will be there for him whenever he decides. Duke is only there for a few years in his life. Duke is now and he knows there is a chance to win a NC. Noone can ever take that away from you. LeBron has not won a championship, I bet there are days in his life he wished he went to college and won a championship. Especially after he saw how great Coach K is.

The problem is it may not be Kyrie's decision to make. It may come down to what his father says. If it is up to Kyrie, we will see him again in a Duke uniform. Add in the lockout possibility and Austin Rivers coming in next season and the injury. This could all add up to another year of Kyrie at Duke. IMHO.

moonpie23
02-11-2011, 05:48 AM
This could all add up to another year of Kyrie at Duke. IMHO.

it would be a sad day in chapel hole.......for sure...

flyingdutchdevil
02-11-2011, 06:11 AM
This is 100% true but I think we are speaking of a kid who loves to play basketball, loves his teammates and loves Duke. He is a competitve guy and wants to be out on the floor to win. Kyrie knows he is going to the NBA and the NBA will be there for him whenever he decides. Duke is only there for a few years in his life. Duke is now and he knows there is a chance to win a NC. Noone can ever take that away from you. LeBron has not won a championship, I bet there are days in his life he wished he went to college and won a championship. Especially after he saw how great Coach K is.

I have a slight issue with that. Just ask McRoberts. Wait wait - I'm not saying that Kyrie is like McRoberts. What I am saying is that there are always circumstances in which the NBA will not be a guarantee the next year. After McBob's freshman year, he was a top-5, if not top-10 pick. After his sophomore year, he was a 2nd rounder who took 3-4 years to get established in the league with minimum salary. What if Kyrie's injury is more serious than doctor's initially thought and getting at 100% takes longer than a year? What if, and God forbid, Kyrie gets injured again? There are a lot of what ifs, both injury and personal issues, that can prevent any player from making the NBA a guarantee. Everyone wants what is best for Kyrie. Turning down millions of dollars to play college basketball is one hell of a difficult decision, especially if you are guaranteed that you are a top 5 pick THIS YEAR. Just look at Luol - despite loving Duke and wanting to graduate, he made the decision that was in the best interest of himself and his family.

flyingdutchdevil
02-11-2011, 06:14 AM
I a) do believe that Kyrie will play again this year and b) that he'll come back next year. Completely a gut feeling.

And his is coming from the guy who thought that Luol, Henderson, Shelden, Singler, and McBob would leave after their respective breakout years (ie, I'm really pesimistic about players, both Duke and non-Duke, staying around).

Bluedevil114
02-11-2011, 06:19 AM
I have a slight issue with that. Just ask McRoberts. Wait wait - I'm not saying that Kyrie is like McRoberts. What I am saying is that there are always circumstances in which the NBA will not be a guarantee the next year. After McBob's freshman year, he was a top-5, if not top-10 pick. After his sophomore year, he was a 2nd rounder who took 3-4 years to get established in the league with minimum salary. What if Kyrie's injury is more serious than doctor's initially thought and getting at 100% takes longer than a year? What if, and God forbid, Kyrie gets injured again? There are a lot of what ifs, both injury and personal issues, that can prevent any player from making the NBA a guarantee. Everyone wants what is best for Kyrie. Turning down millions of dollars to play college basketball is one hell of a difficult decision, especially if you are guaranteed that you are a top 5 pick THIS YEAR. Just look at Luol - despite loving Duke and wanting to graduate, he made the decision that was in the best interest of himself and his family.

My post was based on if Kyrie can play because he is toe is healed and rehab goes great. I am saying if it is up to Kyrie I feel he will play again for Duke.

Luol's situation was a lot different. Loul owed a lot of money to people back home. One being Manute Bol. McRoberts is no Kyrie Irving. McRoberts played with seniors JJ Redick and Shelden Williams along with Dockery/Melchioni. McRoberts did not have the impact Kyrie has had at Duke. McRoberts was lost in that offense and was not even the third option. Kyrie is playing with seniors Kyle and Nolan but he was given the ball game one and most of the time was option one.

oldnavy
02-11-2011, 06:25 AM
Good arguments can be made for both sides and I would venture that even KI doesn't know what he is going to do right now.

The one thing I do know is that this young man has totally invested himself into this team despite his injury. His passion and excitement from the sidelines is amazing to watch. He is the ultimate team mate and despite what he decides to do after this year, he will always be a true member of the Duke family.

Now, my gut tells me that he will be back. Why..... I have no idea, but watching him have so much fun with his team mates while he is not contributing anything ON the court just makes me think that he would spend one more year so that he could get the full effect of being a part of something that he enjoys so much and only happens once in a life time.

Of course if money is the primary motivator then he would be foolish to stay at Duke next year..... it really depends on what KI wants out of life, and again I bet at this moment right now he isn't sure himself.

flyingdutchdevil
02-11-2011, 06:30 AM
My post was based on if Kyrie can play because he is toe is healed and rehab goes great. I am saying if it is up to Kyrie I feel he will play again for Duke.

Luol's situation was a lot different. Loul owed a lot of money to people back home. One being Manute Bol. McRoberts is no Kyrie Irving. McRoberts played with seniors JJ Redick and Shelden Williams along with Dockery/Melchioni. McRoberts did not have the impact Kyrie has had at Duke. McRoberts was lost in that offense and was not even the third option. Kyrie is playing with seniors Kyle and Nolan but he was given the ball game one and most of the time was option one.

I know Kyrie isn't McBob (said that earlier too), but their situations are similar in that by the end of their freshman seasons, they will be probably top 5 NBA picks and will have to make an impossible decision. My point is that the NBA is never a guarantee and that choosing between millions (John Wall is making $4.2m from salary alone this year) and your school, no matter how much you love you coach and teammates, is crazy difficult. Call me shallow and materialistic, but I'm pretty sure I'm not in the minority this with.

Bluedevil114
02-11-2011, 07:08 AM
I know Kyrie isn't McBob (said that earlier too), but their situations are similar in that by the end of their freshman seasons, they will be probably top 5 NBA picks and will have to make an impossible decision. My point is that the NBA is never a guarantee and that choosing between millions (John Wall is making $4.2m from salary alone this year) and your school, no matter how much you love you coach and teammates, is crazy difficult. Call me shallow and materialistic, but I'm pretty sure I'm not in the minority this with.

You are not in the minority since it is only my opinion and have no inside information. As fans we would love to see Kyrie again in a Duke uniform and as a business manager I have to be realistic and go with what is in the best interest of Kyrie and his family. McBob was never injured and really never had that bond with his teammates so again their situations I believe are totally different. Do not underestimate the impact of Nolan Smith and Kyle Singler coming back for another year may play on Kyrie's decision along with the guys coming in next season.

You may be right but that Duke North Carolina game may have been another chance to re-recruit Kyrie for another season at Duke. Then there is the looming lockout. Lots of factors will be in the play in his decision to play this season and next.

flyingdutchdevil
02-11-2011, 07:24 AM
Do not underestimate the impact of Nolan Smith and Kyle Singler coming back for another year may play on Kyrie's decision along with the guys coming in next season.

You may be right but that Duke North Carolina game may have been another chance to re-recruit Kyrie for another season at Duke. Then there is the looming lockout. Lots of factors will be in the play in his decision to play this season and next.

Couldn't agree more with you. There are so many variables for either decision. Right now, it's pure speculation (obviously) and I too think that Kyrie will be back (see post above). But I would not be surprised nor disappointed in either way and will, obviously, wish Kyrie the best in which ever direction he goes.

RelativeWays
02-11-2011, 07:34 AM
The biggest difference between McRoberts and Kyrie is Josh got exposed a bit his sophomore year due to his reluctance to want to be the primary scorer on the team. His jump shot was awful and there were questions about his attitude. Fortunately he's aquitted himself fairly well in the league, but even if he had gone after the freshman, he'd be fighting for the second contract, which would be less of a sure thing. McRoberts would have helped himself considerably by coming back his junior year and improving those things, but he had no intention of returning regardless of how the 07 campaign went.

Kyrie is different, scouts have been sold on him in his first 8 games, there doesn't seem to any deficiency he can hide being the starting PG for Duke so there isn't anything to expose on him. Doesn't mean he can't have a bad game but he has all the tools and abilities scouts want. So Irving cannot play himself out of the lotto, but there is the injury issue. He didn't have injury issues from high school. The toe injury has been determined as more of a complicated injury as opposed to severe. Its not believed to be chronic or recurring. In the event that it does come back then Irving could reinjure it at a draft workout just as likely as a college game. Other injuries are just likely to happen to him as anyone else at any time. Can't really let that be a factor, since situations like Robbie Hummels are very rare.

I don't think Irving has family obligations to worry about. While having well to do parents doesn't prevent you from going early, having a poor family certainly increases the likelihood that you leave. Depending on what happens now, I think Irving DEFINITELY leaves if he comes back and is able to get this team to the final four at least. Anything else, I think he may want one more year to be a kd with teammates he loves. Besides, there is not a huge precedent for PGs to leave after just one year. Paul stayed two, Lawson stayed 3. Teague went after one and is nowhere to be found.

Duke76
02-11-2011, 07:53 AM
wouldn't that help to decide to stay....stars were doing that a while back...is that still plausible...in case he gets hurt next yr

Gewebe14
02-11-2011, 08:19 AM
There is the one difference between McBob and Kyrie -- Kyrie was the best player in the country and the best finisher at the rim I've seen in a while. McBob was never THAT impressive here (relatively speaking of course.)

CDu
02-11-2011, 08:25 AM
There is the one difference between McBob and Kyrie -- Kyrie was the best player in the country and the best finisher at the rim I've seen in a while. McBob was never THAT impressive here (relatively speaking of course.)

There are lots of differences between the two. One's a PG, one's a PF. Honestly, aside from being both highly-touted recruits, there are almost no similarities between the two.

MChambers
02-11-2011, 08:29 AM
I have a slight issue with that. Just ask McRoberts. Wait wait - I'm not saying that Kyrie is like McRoberts. What I am saying is that there are always circumstances in which the NBA will not be a guarantee the next year. After McBob's freshman year, he was a top-5, if not top-10 pick. After his sophomore year, he was a 2nd rounder who took 3-4 years to get established in the league with minimum salary. What if Kyrie's injury is more serious than doctor's initially thought and getting at 100% takes longer than a year? What if, and God forbid, Kyrie gets injured again? There are a lot of what ifs, both injury and personal issues, that can prevent any player from making the NBA a guarantee. Everyone wants what is best for Kyrie. Turning down millions of dollars to play college basketball is one hell of a difficult decision, especially if you are guaranteed that you are a top 5 pick THIS YEAR. Just look at Luol - despite loving Duke and wanting to graduate, he made the decision that was in the best interest of himself and his family.
As far as the idea that the injury is more serious than initially thought, I can certainly argue that Kyrie would be better off staying at Duke. Probably easier to rehab and be a college student than to have a guaranteed contract from a miserable NBA team and disappoint the fans by being unable to play.

Again, however, it comes to down to incredibly personal factors. As far as money goes, he'll be fine, I think, and may be far more than that.

swood1000
02-11-2011, 08:48 AM
There's a lot of money to be made in salary as a high draft pick. However, there may be at least as much to be made through product endorsements, which depends on his star power. If he stays at Duke he'll be on national television twice a week as a star on a winning team in front of enthusiastic audiences. People will tune in to marvel at the Kyrie/Austin dynamic duo. He'll be constantly idealized as the team player who spurned lucre for the love of the game and for the love of his team. Would all that add to his star power more than playing for the Cavaliers for one season, and is it worth the gamble?


The Cleveland Cavaliers are in the midst of the worst losing streak in professional-sports history and certainly in the running for worst NBA team ever. Who knew last year's dismal New Jersey Nets could be passed so quickly? http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Cavaliers-Scott-not-worried-about-job?urn=nba-319975Maybe he would be able to bring the Cavs out of it, but maybe it would be like jumping into quicksand. Somebody familiar with sports marketing would certainly have a better feel for this than I do.

CDu
02-11-2011, 09:02 AM
There's a lot of money to be made in salary as a high draft pick. However, there may be at least as much to be made through product endorsements, which depends on his star power. If he stays at Duke he'll be on national television twice a week as a star on a winning team in front of enthusiastic audiences. People will tune in to marvel at the Kyrie/Austin dynamic duo. He'll be constantly idealized as the team player who spurned lucre for the love of the game and for the love of his team. Would all that add to his star power more than playing for the Cavaliers for one season, and is it worth the gamble?

Maybe he would be able to bring the Cavs out of it, but maybe it would be like jumping into quicksand. Somebody familiar with sports marketing would certainly have a better feel for this than I do.

Well, there's no reason to assume he'd be any less likely to end up with the Cavs if he stayed for a year, either...

Given the low probability of landing with any particular team in any draft year (isn't it something like 1/3 or 1/4 chance that the worst team gets the #1 pick?), I don't think he should make the decision based on the possibility of ending up in Cleveland.

BD80
02-11-2011, 09:03 AM
... Maybe he would be able to bring the Cavs out of it, but maybe it would be like jumping into quicksand. Somebody familiar with sports marketing would certainly have a better feel for this than I do.

He'd have to be a better GM than LBJ and his posse were.

toooskies
02-11-2011, 09:35 AM
Don't knock the Cavs too hard-- while the loss of Lebron was significant, their play early in the season signaled that they were somewhere in the mediocre range. But their two best players (Mo Williams and Varejao) have been hurt, which led to the slide. A top 3 pick and both of those players back could get the Cavs back to the playoffs fairly quickly...

But the Cavs are more desperate for a wing or big man, and so they'd probably go with Sullinger-- plus the OSU connection would be a marketing benefit.

Kedsy
02-11-2011, 09:38 AM
Teague went after one and is nowhere to be found.

Actually, Teague played two years at Wake Forest. I think the precedent you're looking for is John Wall, Tyreke Evans, and Derrick Rose, who all did well in the League from the get-go. Just because they didn't play in the ACC doesn't mean they didn't set a trend.

UrinalCake
02-11-2011, 09:43 AM
If he came back this year and absolutely stunk, I don't think many NBA people would write him off. People realize he's coming off an injury. And there's still plenty of workouts that he'd be put through before any team would draft him.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-11-2011, 09:49 AM
I've said since November that the only way we see Kyrie next year is with an NBA lockout, but that was before the injury. I'd certainly love to see him come back, and I've ALWAYS been in the "there's more than money" camp for players and coaches turning down the "greener pastures" (K and the Lakers, Cut and Tennessee, and I was right about both of those predictions!), but if Kyrie had stayed healthy I couldn't see him staying a second year at Duke. Now, I have no clue. I love Kyrie and how invested he is in Duke and his teammates, and however the season works out and whatever he decides, I'll root for him forever. I am sticking with my previous prediction of him returning to the court later this month for us. Sorry I missed the free dinners at the Angus Barn, but that wasn't my expectation to begin with.

For those of you who are wondering if he's shooting or not, he was shooting the week before he got the cast off. Now I realize that's not the same thing since the cast was protecting and supporting the foot, but I suspect as soon as he was able to stand without support/aid, he was under the basket and flipping in layups, and perhaps shooting foul shots. You may notice my use of the past tense in that sentence as we are a full week post cast removal. Go back to the other thread and read my original supposition of rehab and I expect he's doing a bit more than that now; that foot should be regaining motion and strength every day, and the soreness is getting worked out and lessening every day.

DevilWearsPrada
02-11-2011, 10:16 AM
I personally saw Kyrie shooting around, a week before the cast was taken off. AND HAVE PICS also!!! However, I didnt post... for Obvious reasons.

Kyrie loves Duke, his coach and team members. He is the best youngest Teen age DIV 1 coach, I have ever seen. In FAct... the only 18 year old Div 1 undergrad coach!!!

I think, Kyrie (after his college career, and then NBA career)... will be a great Div 1 basketball asst coach, leading to a Head coaching position. This kid is supreme over others with his maturity and humor and sportsmanship and character. What a great young man!!! Whatever Kyrie, wants, I am all for it. I have learned, not to want things for selfish reasons (especially where our basketball players are concerned). Kyrie is Head and Shoulders, and deserving and worthy of all the success in the world!!

Lets Go Duke! GTHC

UrinalCake
02-11-2011, 10:46 AM
Last week there was a video link on the main page from someone called Dr. Stork who gave a behind-the-scenes look at Duke's training staff. In that video they showed Kyrie sitting on an exercise ball in Cameron, dribbling a basketball while a trainer provided resistance by pushing against his upper body. They're doing everything they can to keep the rest of his body in basketball shape. It occurred to me that if they really felt that there was no chance he could return this season, they probably wouldn't be doing these kinds of exercises.

DevilWearsPrada
02-11-2011, 10:52 AM
Dr Stork and Nick Cannon, were featured in the video. I love that THE DOCTORS is a national show, and everyone gets to see the BLUE DEVILS!!!!

Great segment!!!

And Kyrie, dribbling the basketball, while sitting on one of the big bouncy balls. LOVE IT!! YOU GO KYRIE!! GO BLUE DEVILS!!

Class of '94
02-11-2011, 10:59 AM
The fact that he tweeted a few days ago that he was going with Nolan to have an early morning workout seems promising. Saying that, I don't know what they did; it could have just been lifting weights; but again, Kyrie working out and staying in shape bodes well for a possible return IMO. Hopefully, the toe has been responding well to the rehab so far.

swood1000
02-12-2011, 11:53 AM
Beside the potential increase in his star power by staying at Duke a little longer there is another advantage. Some may remember this "Kyrie Cam" of about a year ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4ENzofwde4 in which Kyrie went around and interviewed other McDonald's All-Americans. At one point he mentioned that he is going into Broadcast Journalism and that he sees himself as Jay Bilas someday.

To become a broadcast journalist it helps to be a former star athlete but there are plenty of those who don't make it. One also needs to be articulate, urbane, sophisticated, and to have some knowledge of broadcast journalism. To acquire or enhance these qualities one must read certain books and interact with certain types of people. Where does a person typically go to acquire/enhance those qualities? College. And where is one of the best colleges in the land?

Maybe rapping with professional basketball peers would be just as good, and maybe taking a three week course after he retires would do the trick. But there are changes to oneís intellect and outlook that take place over time at college and that are hard to duplicate elsewhere. Alternatives may not produce the same perspective as a year at a top university. A professional career lasts only a short time and Kyrie probably realizes that he has to prepare for what comes after that. Just another thing he needs to throw into the mix.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-12-2011, 02:51 PM
Last week there was a video link on the main page from someone called Dr. Stork who gave a behind-the-scenes look at Duke's training staff. In that video they showed Kyrie sitting on an exercise ball in Cameron, dribbling a basketball while a trainer provided resistance by pushing against his upper body. They're doing everything they can to keep the rest of his body in basketball shape. It occurred to me that if they really felt that there was no chance he could return this season, they probably wouldn't be doing these kinds of exercises.


Can we get a link to this video?

WVDUKEFAN
02-12-2011, 03:12 PM
Hopefully we'll get an MRI and an update later this week?

ChicagoCrazy84
02-12-2011, 03:26 PM
Hopefully we'll get an MRI and an update later this week?

Why would he need another MRI? He just had one when he got his cast off and it had healed.

Skitzle
02-12-2011, 03:38 PM
Last week there was a video link on the main page from someone called Dr. Stork who gave a behind-the-scenes look at Duke's training staff. In that video they showed Kyrie sitting on an exercise ball in Cameron, dribbling a basketball while a trainer provided resistance by pushing against his upper body. They're doing everything they can to keep the rest of his body in basketball shape. It occurred to me that if they really felt that there was no chance he could return this season, they probably wouldn't be doing these kinds of exercises.

Love the optimism, but you can't use that incident as evidence on whether Kyrie will play again this year. It's not like his basketball career is over. Even if he had had toe surgery and was out for the season, he would be doing exercises like these. His life is basketball and he has an incredible work ethic. He's always going to play just as much basketball as his body will let him.

After an injury, basketball players only sit on their butts doing nothing at all for two reasons. 1) If they are lazy or 2) If they physically can't.

I would love to see Kyrie back this year (and the next and the next :)) but this incident doesnt give me extra hope. Just reproves his work ethic and Duke's commitment to his long term development as a basketball player.

UrinalCake
02-12-2011, 08:32 PM
Yeah, I'm not saying I think this is an indication that he definitely will return, just that the door is still open.

ChicagoCrazy, here's (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=38357) the DBR entry that links to the video.

hurley1
02-12-2011, 10:21 PM
i don't see irving playing anymore this year, but, i believe he will be back at duke next year......

Kewlswim
02-12-2011, 11:40 PM
i don't see irving playing anymore this year, but, i believe he will be back at duke next year......

Hi,

Your either right or your wrong. For the record, I think you are wrong, but again (just like you) that is strict conjecture. We will know more once the season is over and if he played again or not. ;)

GO DUKE!

HK Dukie
02-13-2011, 12:34 AM
Let's be realistic on our expectations, the best way to keep Kyrie next year (if he does not come back to play this season from his toe injury) is for there to be a legitimate argument for him making more money over his career if he stays another year.

COST of staying: (1) $4m+ of rookie year salary plus waiting an extra year to get the unrestricted second contract. (2) loss of steep learning curve by playing against college level players instead of the best players in the world - for a late first round draft pick this argument is actually reversed in that that player would likely ride the bench and likely be better served playing everyday in college than just in practice in the NBA. For Kyrie, he is an impact player from day one (starter or leading reserve) so he loses the learning curve if he stays. (3) You risk being exposed (draft stock cant get much higher than top 5).

Benefits of staying: (1) BRANDING! This does not help every duke player but Kyrie seems to be universally liked because of the way he plays and his wonderful demeanor. A one-two punch with Austin Rivers next year could make him a household name while 8 games this year make him tantilizing to NBA GMs but not nearly as marketable. How much is this worth? One full season would have been enough for the branding but being out this season I think costs him potential endorsement money down the road. (2) Avoid lockout uncertainty: you certainly wouldn't want your start in the league to be overshadowed by uncertainty over work stoppage. For branding events its just cleaner when the story is, "hey look at that insanely good rookie, he's gonna take over the league". (3) Most other arguments are for really subjective reasons like getting an extra year of education etc... I agree those are worth something. Maybe he can get an extra 100-200k a year job after NBA career but let's be honest, from a money standpoint, that $4m loss from staying an extra year is pretty large. That one contract (3-4 year deal) can set you up for life even if you could make a little more by staying. (4) Loyalty? I don't agree that players owe us as fans any loyalty to stay in school. This is a business decision. Let's not forget that his best friend on the team is Nolan, and Nolan is graduating. I know AR is his boy but KI has at least as good a relationship with Nolan and with him out of the equation there is less to keep him around.

Anyways, I hope this is all an academic excercise because he comes back and leads the team to a national championship and becomes the #1 draft pick in a non-lockout season.

Either way, Kyrie is one of us. He has proven he "unpacked his bags" with his positive and inspiring attitude. I just want the best for him.

"Loving the Toe Heals, Tar Heels not so much"

DUKIE V(A)
02-13-2011, 06:29 AM
I think many people underestimate the value of the college experience which from the looks of things KI seems to be loving. I personally do not think KI would be "exposed" if he played another season at Duke, because unlike many other players facing this decision there is nothing to be exposed. He is a great, great player and another year in the spotlight will only confirm him as a great, great player. However, even if he were "exposed" and ended up a top 15 pick instead of the number 1 pick (which I highly doubt), Kyrie would be a wealthy man and have an outstanding opportunity to develop into a star at the NBA level. My belief is that if you love college as much as it seems KI does, it may be the better choice to stay another year whether or not he comes back this year. My argument is that you can't buy happiness and the memories that will last a lifetime.

The great thing is that KI and his family will make the best decision for him. He will have two great options to choose from. I just do not agree with arguments that are all about the $$...for many of us, life is more than about the $$. IMO, a better argument for KI choosing the NBA over another year in college would be because he is absolutely salivating to compete at the next level and can't wait any longer.

I believe KI comes back if he does not he play again this year. If he does play this year, I still believe there is a good chance KI plays one more year at Duke. I may be naive, but my gut tells me that Kyrie "needs" to play Carolina one time in Cameron.

gam7
02-13-2011, 06:49 AM
Let's be realistic on our expectations, the best way to keep Kyrie next year (if he does not come back to play this season from his toe injury) is for there to be a legitimate argument for him making more money over his career if he stays another year.

COST of staying: (1) $4m+ of rookie year salary plus waiting an extra year to get the unrestricted second contract. (2) loss of steep learning curve by playing against college level players instead of the best players in the world - for a late first round draft pick this argument is actually reversed in that that player would likely ride the bench and likely be better served playing everyday in college than just in practice in the NBA. For Kyrie, he is an impact player from day one (starter or leading reserve) so he loses the learning curve if he stays. (3) You risk being exposed (draft stock cant get much higher than top 5).

Benefits of staying: (1) BRANDING! This does not help every duke player but Kyrie seems to be universally liked because of the way he plays and his wonderful demeanor. A one-two punch with Austin Rivers next year could make him a household name while 8 games this year make him tantilizing to NBA GMs but not nearly as marketable. How much is this worth? One full season would have been enough for the branding but being out this season I think costs him potential endorsement money down the road. (2) Avoid lockout uncertainty: you certainly wouldn't want your start in the league to be overshadowed by uncertainty over work stoppage. For branding events its just cleaner when the story is, "hey look at that insanely good rookie, he's gonna take over the league". (3) Most other arguments are for really subjective reasons like getting an extra year of education etc... I agree those are worth something. Maybe he can get an extra 100-200k a year job after NBA career but let's be honest, from a money standpoint, that $4m loss from staying an extra year is pretty large. That one contract (3-4 year deal) can set you up for life even if you could make a little more by staying. (4) Loyalty? I don't agree that players owe us as fans any loyalty to stay in school. This is a business decision. Let's not forget that his best friend on the team is Nolan, and Nolan is graduating. I know AR is his boy but KI has at least as good a relationship with Nolan and with him out of the equation there is less to keep him around.

Anyways, I hope this is all an academic excercise because he comes back and leads the team to a national championship and becomes the #1 draft pick in a non-lockout season.

Either way, Kyrie is one of us. He has proven he "unpacked his bags" with his positive and inspiring attitude. I just want the best for him.

"Loving the Toe Heals, Tar Heels not so much"

The Duke team's trip to China (if it happens) will be a unique branding opportunity in a huge market. Also, yes, he and Nolan are friends, but he, Tyler and Josh are very close as well. Plus, he'll get a free trip to Maui next year as well.

moonpie23
02-13-2011, 09:35 AM
it's just a right rank bummer.....that's just it....


i'd love to see kyrie stay for another year, but that's selfish of me in light of what he would possibly pass up by staying....

i just want him to get well and dominate ......so we can all watch him......

Ima Facultiwyfe
02-13-2011, 09:45 AM
Put me down as a Kyrie fan .... a BIG one ....forever, no matter what he does.
Love, Ima

Utley
02-13-2011, 02:30 PM
I came across this on one of the tents closest to Cameron en route to the post game bonfire. Great to see the strong support for Kyrie from the Crazies!

Every time I watch Kyrie on the sideline I amazed at his optoemism. Waching him, I find it hard to think that he doesn't at least think there is a chance that he makes it back this season. Come what may, I am really proud of him and thankful that he chose Duke.

WVDUKEFAN
02-13-2011, 02:51 PM
Why would he need another MRI? He just had one when he got his cast off and it had healed.

I'm pretty sure that's what Coach K said was going to happen. Rehab for a couple of weeks and then an additional MRI to evaluate "THE TOE".

yancem
02-13-2011, 03:39 PM
Let's be realistic on our expectations, the best way to keep Kyrie next year (if he does not come back to play this season from his toe injury) is for there to be a legitimate argument for him making more money over his career if he stays another year.

COST of staying: (1) $4m+ of rookie year salary plus waiting an extra year to get the unrestricted second contract. (2) loss of steep learning curve by playing against college level players instead of the best players in the world - for a late first round draft pick this argument is actually reversed in that that player would likely ride the bench and likely be better served playing everyday in college than just in practice in the NBA. For Kyrie, he is an impact player from day one (starter or leading reserve) so he loses the learning curve if he stays. (3) You risk being exposed (draft stock cant get much higher than top 5).

Benefits of staying: (1) BRANDING! This does not help every duke player but Kyrie seems to be universally liked because of the way he plays and his wonderful demeanor. A one-two punch with Austin Rivers next year could make him a household name while 8 games this year make him tantilizing to NBA GMs but not nearly as marketable. How much is this worth? One full season would have been enough for the branding but being out this season I think costs him potential endorsement money down the road. (2) Avoid lockout uncertainty: you certainly wouldn't want your start in the league to be overshadowed by uncertainty over work stoppage. For branding events its just cleaner when the story is, "hey look at that insanely good rookie, he's gonna take over the league". (3) Most other arguments are for really subjective reasons like getting an extra year of education etc... I agree those are worth something. Maybe he can get an extra 100-200k a year job after NBA career but let's be honest, from a money standpoint, that $4m loss from staying an extra year is pretty large. That one contract (3-4 year deal) can set you up for life even if you could make a little more by staying. (4) Loyalty? I don't agree that players owe us as fans any loyalty to stay in school. This is a business decision. Let's not forget that his best friend on the team is Nolan, and Nolan is graduating. I know AR is his boy but KI has at least as good a relationship with Nolan and with him out of the equation there is less to keep him around.

Anyways, I hope this is all an academic excercise because he comes back and leads the team to a national championship and becomes the #1 draft pick in a non-lockout season.

Either way, Kyrie is one of us. He has proven he "unpacked his bags" with his positive and inspiring attitude. I just want the best for him.

"Loving the Toe Heals, Tar Heels not so much"

I think that this concept of loosing out on a year of salary is not completely accurate. I would argue that the length of a players career is tide more to the number of games played than the age of the player. A person's body can only take so much pounding before it takes a toll. So if a player delays his entry to the nba by one year he probably delays his retirement by a year and therefore makes the money up in the end.

Granted I haven't conducted a lengthy study but take as an example Tracy McGrady vs Tim Duncan. Both were drafted in 1997 but Duncan is 3 years older. Duncan, because he went to college made a more immediate impact but after a few seasons both were perennial all stars for about a decade. Recently, both have had some injuries and their stats have gone down hill (McGrady even more so than Duncan even though he is 3 years younger.) I know that this is only one example but I haven't noticed any more longevity out of the prom to pro or one and done guys and my theory also helps explain why Grant Hill is still having the success that he is currently having even though he's 38. His injury years kept him off the court for several years and the lack of wear and tear has lengthened his career.

kmspeaks
02-13-2011, 04:14 PM
I think that this concept of loosing out on a year of salary is not completely accurate. I would argue that the length of a players career is tide more to the number of games played than the age of the player. A person's body can only take so much pounding before it takes a toll. So if a player delays his entry to the nba by one year he probably delays his retirement by a year and therefore makes the money up in the end.

Granted I haven't conducted a lengthy study but take as an example Tracy McGrady vs Tim Duncan. Both were drafted in 1997 but Duncan is 3 years older. Duncan, because he went to college made a more immediate impact but after a few seasons both were perennial all stars for about a decade. Recently, both have had some injuries and their stats have gone down hill (McGrady even more so than Duncan even though he is 3 years younger.) I know that this is only one example but I haven't noticed any more longevity out of the prom to pro or one and done guys and my theory also helps explain why Grant Hill is still having the success that he is currently having even though he's 38. His injury years kept him off the court for several years and the lack of wear and tear has lengthened his career.

I'd love to see more numbers on this idea but it makes sense intuitively.

A college season = usually 2 games a week, a 30-40 game season depending on tournament(s)
An NBA season= 3-4? games a week, an 82 game season + playoffs, and a whole lot more travel

CLT Devil
02-13-2011, 05:37 PM
Okay...I've been holding this in for quite some time now but I feel like I am going to have a meltdown. Kyrie, WE LOVE YOU and I absolutely hate the fact that after only 7 games into your college career you had a (semi)serious injury that has to be frustrating as all get out because you don't have any other similar injury timeframe to base your rehab off of. Kyrie, it looks like you are making the most of your injury situation this year, and hopefull you are taking advantage of all the wonderful things Duke has to offer you as a student.

I think I speak for everyone who is a Duke fan, and most college basketball fans as well, that it is incredibly frustrating when I watch every game and see you sitting there on the bench injured. I mean, seriously, how much does that stink? We all want the best for you, and if that means sitting out this year and going to the league next year then so be it. Just know that you will always be a part of the Duke family. Being selfish, I almost have a breakdown when I see you on the sidelines, injured and not able to play. When I think of how good this team is when you are on it I almost tear up knowing that I might only get to see you play in 7 games. Regardless of what happens moving forward I admire the way you have handled this year, as the one thing that you likely love more than anything but your family has been taken away for a while...how much did it hurt to watch the UNC game?

Haste ye back, but only if it is 100% in your best interest.

I had to get that out. I can't help having a certain frustration when I see Kyrie on the bench, more so than just about anything else from Duke Bball I can remember, including but not limited to: Demarcus Nelson getting hurt over and over, Zoubek not developing until his senior year, Jason Williams missing free throws against Indiana...this is obviously of a different nature and nothing that anyone can work on, but just as frustrating as anything I have seen as a fan.

I don't know what the point of my post is other than to wish Kyrie well, to let him know he will always be a Dukie and for me personally to not freak out from watching Kyrie watch the game from the bench. Get well soon...with the emphasis on 'well' and not 'soon' unless the two go hand in hand.

(sprry for the italics...don't know how to get it how I want it)

OZZIE4DUKE
02-14-2011, 01:54 PM
Chris Collins was on David Glenn's show today.

On Kyrie's toe, he did say that he was glad to see Kyrie wearing two shoes again. Now THAT I found most interesting... ! He did not say anything about what he was doing in those two shoes or what he was doing in his rehab, only that it would "be a while"... More company line coach speak. Glenn was diplomatic and didn't push him to say more.

I think good things are afoot. And "atoe"! :cool:

sdotbarbee
02-14-2011, 01:54 PM
Kyrie in 2 shoes and no boot anymore.


@DukeHoopBlog
Adam Rowe
2nd time I've heard this & still not sure how much it means, Coach Collins was just on @DavidGlennShow & said Kyrie is in 2 shoes, no boot.
1 hour ago via ‹berTwitter Favorite Retweet Reply

jaygdevil11
02-14-2011, 02:03 PM
Kyrie in 2 shoes and no boot anymore.


@DukeHoopBlog
Adam Rowe
2nd time I've heard this & still not sure how much it means, Coach Collins was just on @DavidGlennShow & said Kyrie is in 2 shoes, no boot.
1 hour ago via ‹berTwitter Favorite Retweet Reply

Sounds like good news to me!

Matches
02-14-2011, 02:04 PM
I think that this concept of loosing out on a year of salary is not completely accurate. I would argue that the length of a players career is tide more to the number of games played than the age of the player. A person's body can only take so much pounding before it takes a toll. So if a player delays his entry to the nba by one year he probably delays his retirement by a year and therefore makes the money up in the end.



Assuming this is true, from a strictly mathematical standpoint it's better for the player to make the $ now, unless the last-year salary is greater than the 1st year salary even after being discounted to present value. Assuming a 12-15 year career with a normal development curve, the reverse is likely to be true.

I agree with you re: NBA players' odometers - though Bill Simmons had a good article recently about how some current NBA stars (Kobe, Pierce) are bucking the trend.

sdotbarbee
02-14-2011, 02:05 PM
Chris Collins was on David Glenn's show today.

On Kyrie's toe, he did say that he was glad to see Kyrie wearing two shoes again. Now THAT I found most interesting... ! He did not say anything about what he was doing in those two shoes or what he was doing in his rehab, only that it would "be a while"... More company line coach speak. Glenn was diplomatic and didn't push him to say more.

I think good things are afoot. And "atoe"! :cool:

Ozzie you beat me to it.:D

DevilWearsPrada
02-14-2011, 02:06 PM
Ozzie, did they say 2 tennis shoes, and NO boot? Or a tennis shoe and a boot?

I am going to the Duke Radio show, and I will ask!!! YOU know I will! I never email, a question.

I ask a question, during the Radio breaks!!!

I hope Nolan will be there tonight. I asked Nolan last time to come back, and bring Kyle with him to the radio show. Love it, when Nolan does the 2nd half of a radio show. He is great and funny too.

I am opting for the 2 SHOES and NO BOOT!!! This is one time, during winter season, that I would like to see a pair of Tennis shoes, on someone, and not 1 of each!!!

KYRIE LOOKS BETTER IN A PAIR OF GOOD TENNIS SHOES WITH TOE PROTECTION!!!!

Vincetaylor
02-14-2011, 02:07 PM
Kyrie in 2 shoes and no boot anymore.


@DukeHoopBlog
Adam Rowe
2nd time I've heard this & still not sure how much it means, Coach Collins was just on @DavidGlennShow & said Kyrie is in 2 shoes, no boot.
1 hour ago via ‹berTwitter Favorite Retweet Reply

I wonder if Jay Bilas is starting to wake up from his pipe dream.

sdotbarbee
02-14-2011, 02:15 PM
Ozzie, did they say 2 tennis shoes, and NO boot? Or a tennis shoe and a boot?

I am going to the Duke Radio show, and I will ask!!! YOU know I will! I never email, a question.

I ask a question, during the Radio breaks!!!

I hope Nolan will be there tonight. I asked Nolan last time to come back, and bring Kyle with him to the radio show. Love it, when Nolan does the 2nd half of a radio show. He is great and funny too.

I am opting for the 2 SHOES and NO BOOT!!! This is one time, during winter season, that I would like to see a pair of Tennis shoes, on someone, and not 1 of each!!!

KYRIE LOOKS BETTER IN A PAIR OF GOOD TENNIS SHOES WITH TOE PROTECTION!!!!

No boot, he is wearing two shoes now.:)

Indoor66
02-14-2011, 02:24 PM
No boot, he is wearing two shoes now.:)

May we call him Kyrie TwoShoes?

NSDukeFan
02-14-2011, 02:29 PM
No boot, he is wearing two shoes now.:)

As a Canadian, can I now say "no doot aboot it."

TruBlu
02-14-2011, 03:53 PM
At the end of the Miami game, there was a brief shot of the players walking off the court. I could not detect any limping in the shot of Kyrie walking. Fingers are crossed.

BD80
02-14-2011, 04:05 PM
Chris Collins was on David Glenn's show today.

On Kyrie's toe, he did say that he was glad to see Kyrie wearing two shoes again. Now THAT I found most interesting... ! He did not say anything about what he was doing in those two shoes or what he was doing in his rehab, only that it would "be a while"... More company line coach speak. Glenn was diplomatic and didn't push him to say more.

I think good things are afoot. And "atoe"! :cool:

Golly Ozzie, when will you learn to take such tidings in stride?

uh_no
02-14-2011, 04:24 PM
At the end of the Miami game, there was a brief shot of the players walking off the court. I could not detect any limping in the shot of Kyrie walking. Fingers are crossed.

Just because there's no pain doesn't mean the ligament/tendon/bone is strong, which is the real issue here....if there were still pain at this point, that'd be a pretty big issue

-bdbd
02-14-2011, 06:44 PM
As a Canadian, can I now say "no doot aboot it."

No doot aboot it, eh?!
I'd give a loonie for that!

;)

Has anyone heard a go/no-go deadline for a decision? It seems like they'd know before the end of ther month if he's going to, er, take a run at it...

:confused:

yancem
02-14-2011, 07:44 PM
Assuming this is true, from a strictly mathematical standpoint it's better for the player to make the $ now, unless the last-year salary is greater than the 1st year salary even after being discounted to present value. Assuming a 12-15 year career with a normal development curve, the reverse is likely to be true.

I agree with you re: NBA players' odometers - though Bill Simmons had a good article recently about how some current NBA stars (Kobe, Pierce) are bucking the trend.

Well, if you assume that two players have identical salaries over over their entire careers with the only difference being that one started and ended a year later, then yes the player that started a year earlier would come out slightly ahead do to having one more year of interest earned but he would also have to dip into his savings/retirement a year earlier as well which would offset some of the gain. Also, when you talk about 12-15 year careers at the kind salaries these guys are making the interest on that first year is only a drop in the bucket.

AZLA
02-14-2011, 08:05 PM
Just because there's no pain doesn't mean the ligament/tendon/bone is strong, which is the real issue here....if there were still pain at this point, that'd be a pretty big issue

Good point. Strength, but also tightness of the tendon -- something anyone with a ruptured tendon is familiar with. That flexibility takes a while to get back even with good therapy. So even if the pain is gone the real challenge is to balance when he thinks he's ready and what his therapists and doctors think. To us, he'd probably look about the same even if his toe was at 85% pre-injury. To him, it will be a matter of not favoring the toe. Mentally, that can also take a while before one is totally confident it's healed. I'm sure we'll see him wanting to be on the floor before that point. It's the athlete's instinct. I'm confident Coach K and the staff will be hyper vigilante in not letting Kyrie's enthusiasm to play overshadow his well-being. Grant Hill, who openly admits that his strong desire to get back out on the court, may have contributed to a longer road to recovery. Even thought Grant's injury was incredibly more complex and far more serious than Kyrie's, his experience serves as a good example for caution. At the same time, some believe Grant's time away from the court may have saved him some extra physical stress and lengthened his career. So, go figure.

turnandburn55
02-14-2011, 08:11 PM
As Coach K always says, though... the $$$ made on your rookie contract looks like the big time, but the REAL money comes on the second (and subsequent) contracts, as well as endorsements. On the one extreme, the guy who comes into the NBA with a polished skill set and takes the league by storm sees that money very quickly (see: Hill, Grant). The other extreme is Will Avery.

The NBA falls out of love with potential as quickly as they fall in love. You can't just be drafted high... you have to validate your draft position.

civileng68
02-15-2011, 10:09 AM
I know we have Kyrie threads on here. I get it. I know we have "vigils" and things like that. I know we've all discussed him in more detail than one can possibly almost bear.

However, I have a question that maybe some of you who are more "in the know" than I am can answer.

* I've rarely seen a star player on ANY level of sports aside from highschool, taken on an injury like Kyrie has, then when he looks to be on a positive road, suddenly everything goes dead silent. I know I know, Coach K says he doesnt expect him back, but really, is that the entirety of the matter? IM just curious.

He got his cast off and I've heard little to nothing in terms of official reports on his status (good or bad) since the day his cast came off. At this point (mid Feb), they're not even ruling him out which confuses me. If he's not officially ruled out, doesnt that mean he "could" come back this year? If he "could" come back this year, wouldnt we be hearing about some sort of rehab? Again, I apologize if any of this information HAS been released. I've just missed it if it has.

I'm just curious because it seems like based on the timing of the season, someone has to know something at this point. Even if he didnt come back and finish the season, at this point I would think someone would be saying "we're setting a date for his return at XXXXX, assuming all goes as planned".

I would think if he's not going to be ready at this point, they'd clearly know and say as much which makes me think they're still planning on his return.

OK my ADD got the best of me on this post and it was much longer than necessary. ;)

OZZIE4DUKE
02-15-2011, 10:12 AM
You're right. They've said nothing. They are not going to say anything. I told you they are not going to say anything. They, the coaches, have planned that he's not coming back.

That said, I've predicted he's coming back on Feb. 20th. Or Feb. 23rd. Our two home games later this month. We'll see who is right. I hope I am!

Kfanarmy
02-15-2011, 10:23 AM
You're right. They've said nothing. They are not going to say anything. I told you they are not going to say anything. They, the coaches, have planned that he's not coming back.

That said, I've predicted he's coming back on Feb. 20th. Or Feb. 23rd. Our two home games later this month. We'll see who is right. I hope I am!

You're going to know in a flash if that is true. 5-8 days

DukeSean
02-15-2011, 10:45 AM
did Vegas ever put up odds on Kyrie's toe?

uh_no
02-15-2011, 10:49 AM
I'm not seeing him playing next week. The kid just got into shoes the first time two days ago. To have him play a week after that would be incredible. The foot needs time to strengthen up a LOT. Soft tissue injuries like this are very dangerous. A miscalculation could have disastrous effects, namely reinjury. A week won't provide the time, which is why more reasonable estimates put him mid to late march if at all.

cato
02-15-2011, 11:13 AM
Well, if you assume that two players have identical salaries over over their entire careers with the only difference being that one started and ended a year later, then yes the player that started a year earlier would come out slightly ahead do to having one more year of interest earned but he would also have to dip into his savings/retirement a year earlier as well which would offset some of the gain. Also, when you talk about 12-15 year careers at the kind salaries these guys are making the interest on that first year is only a drop in the bucket.

That's not quite right. First, you are assuming that the first player, who started a year earlier, will also retire a year earlier. Second, you can't just look at the interest on one year's salary. You have to look at the compounded interest on the entire salary over the career. In other words, by shifting savings a year earlier in life, you allow an extra year of gains on the back end. Depending on the return on investment, that can be a very big year.

cato
02-15-2011, 11:16 AM
The other extreme is Will Avery.


Will Avery is not a valid comparison to Kyrie Irving. Kyrie was a more complete basketball player (and more talented athlete) in his first game in a Duke uniform than Avery was after the '99 loss to UConn.

Starter
02-15-2011, 11:20 AM
The NBA falls out of love with potential as quickly as they fall in love. You can't just be drafted high... you have to validate your draft position.

We've seen nothing to indicate that Kyrie wouldn't validate his draft position, be it in next year's draft or this year's.

UrinalCake
02-15-2011, 11:26 AM
Through the magic of the internet, I have pieced together the following timeline from 1998. Make of it what you will:

1/14/98, The Chronicle
http://dukechronicle.com/node/113135

"On Dec. 27 in their second practice after returning to school, Brand broke the fifth metatarsal bone in his left foot. Before the injury, Brand, the preseason ACC Rookie of the Year, was leading Duke with 16 points per game and seven rebounds per game. In addition to those two statistical categories, he was among the top 10 in the ACC in steals, field goal percentage and blocked shots."


2/10/98, The Chronicle
http://dukechronicle.com/node/113479

"Elton Brand isn't returning to the men's basketball team any time soon, coach Mike Krzyzewski told the media before yesterday's game. Despite rumors to the contrary, Krzyzewski is not expecting Brand to play again this year.

'In my mind, he's not coming back,' Krzyzewski said.

'You start talking about it, and I think it hurts your team, and it could hurt the kid'"


2/21/98, New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/21/sports/colleges-duke-s-brand-to-return.html?src=pm

"Duke freshman center Elton Brand, who has missed six weeks with a broken foot, has received medical clearance to play and will dress for the No. 2-ranked Blue Devils' game Sunday with No. 12 U.C.L.A. Duke Coach Mike Krzyzewski said a week ago that he didn't expect Brand to return this season."


2/22/98, The Chronicle
http://dukechronicle.com/node/113640

"Six minutes and two seconds into the men's basketball team's rout of UCLA yesterday, a sudden boom erupted from the crowd.

Elvis had returned to the building.

Elton Brand stepped onto the court for the first time since Dec. 21, completing a remarkable comeback from a foot injury that was supposed to keep him out the rest of the year."

hurley1
02-15-2011, 11:27 AM
This is 100% true but I think we are speaking of a kid who loves to play basketball, loves his teammates and loves Duke. He is a competitve guy and wants to be out on the floor to win. Kyrie knows he is going to the NBA and the NBA will be there for him whenever he decides. Duke is only there for a few years in his life. Duke is now and he knows there is a chance to win a NC. Noone can ever take that away from you. LeBron has not won a championship, I bet there are days in his life he wished he went to college and won a championship. Especially after he saw how great Coach K is.

The problem is it may not be Kyrie's decision to make. It may come down to what his father says. If it is up to Kyrie, we will see him again in a Duke uniform. Add in the lockout possibility and Austin Rivers coming in next season and the injury. This could all add up to another year of Kyrie at Duke. IMHO.

i have thought this all along.......i'm a dad and my son was a ball player......if this was my son, i would strongly advise him to come back to college next year and maybe even beyond that.......you only get one chance in life to enjoy the college experience......don't let it pass........also, he is a smart kid that should get an education.......a degree........the money for him will always be there.......youth passes very quickly......stay in school Kyrie.......YO WILL NEVER REGRET IT.......

OZZIE4DUKE
02-15-2011, 11:31 AM
You're right. They've said nothing. They are not going to say anything. I told you they are not going to say anything. They, the coaches, have planned that he's not coming back.

That said, I've predicted he's coming back on Feb. 20th. Or Feb. 23rd. Our two home games later this month. We'll see who is right. I hope I am!


You're going to know in a flash if that is true. 5-8 days
Just to refresh everyone's memory on the "schedule" I laid out on January 31st in the other (closed) thread

When they take the cast off, the muscles in his foot and ankle will be mush. With the help of the doctors and therapists he'll spend the first day learning how to stand and walk, stretching out the muscles and tendons, probably using a cane or crutch at times, at least initially, for balance or weight bearing assistance, at least for the first few minutes. OK, maybe not, but maybe yes. IF there is no pain, and this assumes that the structures have healed, the first couple of days will be spent stretching and strengthening these muscles. Nothing fast. Nothing quick. Nothing basketball related for several days, (or hours, as the case may be :cool:). Just the basics. Learn to walk. Learn to turn. Learn to stop. Nothing hurts? OK, now get stronger. As the week moves on, probably day 5 or 6 (try to keep the kid from starting - I dare you!), I envision some individual basketball related activities at slow speeds with a trainer. No pain? He's jogging now. Building some wind. A lot of wind! Add a teammate, then two to the drills. Not full speed yet by any means, but maybe 3/4 speed - faster than you and I could move in our dreams, but slow for him. Assuming no pain, no re-injury. 10 days into rehab now, it's Feb. 14 say. Kyrie starts to practice with the full team on a limited basis in closed practices under a cloak of secrecy . He is not in uniform for the game on the 16th in Charlottesville.

It's February 20th. The under 16:00 media time out is ending, and #1 rips off his warm ups and saunters over to the scorer's table to thunderous roars! The buzzer sounds and Kyrie enters the game and the rest of the season begins. As the recalled Nike T-shirt said last season, "Order has been restored".
As the poster above said, we've heard nothing. The cone of silence is in firmly place. :cool:

uh_no
02-15-2011, 11:32 AM
Through the magic of the internet, I have pieced together the following timeline from 1998. Make of it what you will:


I think we have to remember, there are huge differences between bone injuries and soft tissue injuries. Bone injuries heal, and they're done, its over. Soft tissue injuries heal gradually, and even then, the chance of re injuring the same tissue is greater.

UrinalCake
02-15-2011, 11:40 AM
I think we have to remember, there are huge differences between bone injuries and soft tissue injuries.

Yeah, Brand's injury was of course totally different than Kyrie's. My point in posting that timeline was to show that Coach K used similar wording whenever he was asked about Brand's injury - he stated that he didn't expect him back, and that the team was preparing as if he were not coming back. That doesn't mean that Kyrie definitely IS coming back like Brand did, but I think it could mean that Coach K is being overly pessimistic when speaking to the press for the sake of keeping his other players prepared and motivated.

nocilla
02-15-2011, 11:58 AM
I think we have to remember, there are huge differences between bone injuries and soft tissue injuries. Bone injuries heal, and they're done, its over. Soft tissue injuries heal gradually, and even then, the chance of re injuring the same tissue is greater.

So would you say that soft tissue injuries need about 3 more weeks than bone injuries to heal? :cool:

uh_no
02-15-2011, 12:13 PM
Yeah, Brand's injury was of course totally different than Kyrie's. My point in posting that timeline was to show that Coach K used similar wording whenever he was asked about Brand's injury - he stated that he didn't expect him back, and that the team was preparing as if he were not coming back. That doesn't mean that Kyrie definitely IS coming back like Brand did, but I think it could mean that Coach K is being overly pessimistic when speaking to the press for the sake of keeping his other players prepared and motivated.

Completely agree. This is stock Coach K dealing with injury. It's almost uncanny how similar the responses are (and there's no way K DIDN'T know brand was coming back). K is phenomenal at speaking wisely, and I have no doubt in my mind that everything he says here is very planned and tempered to get the best performance out of his team (and consequently worse performances out of opponents) both now and in the tournament, regardless of whether kyrie comes back.

Situation 1: kyrie doesn't return: coach has prepared them thoroughly to play the best they can

Situation 2: Kyrie does return: suddenly a very good team has the best point guard in the country

point: there's no reason for K to say a player is coming back, because all it does is create a false hope

Increasing success by lowering expectations is the game we're playing right now.

tecumseh
02-15-2011, 12:29 PM
Just suppose that Kyrie comes back for limited action in the ACC tourney (which Duke for sake of argument does not win) and the Duke staff announces he should be ready to go for NCAA tourney. How would that and should that effect the seeding?

mkline09
02-15-2011, 12:31 PM
Just suppose that Kyrie comes back for limited action in the ACC tourney (which Duke for sake of argument does not win) and the Duke staff announces he should be ready to go for NCAA tourney. How would that and should that effect the seeding?

I think it would give the selection committee pause, but ultimately I don't think so. If they don't win the ACC tournament, barring a collapse the rest of this regular season they are a 2-seed at lowest.

NSDukeFan
02-15-2011, 12:35 PM
Just suppose that Kyrie comes back for limited action in the ACC tourney (which Duke for sake of argument does not win) and the Duke staff announces he should be ready to go for NCAA tourney. How would that and should that effect the seeding?

Hopefully it won't be an issue. As someone posted in another thread, if Duke were to win the ACC tournament and lose fewer than 2 games before that, I expect Duke would be a #1 seed. If Duke loses two or more games before the NCAA tournament, it could become an issue. Hypothetically, of course.

gam7
02-15-2011, 12:37 PM
I think it would give the selection committee pause, but ultimately I don't think so. If they don't win the ACC tournament, barring a collapse the rest of this regular season they are a 2-seed at lowest.

I think tecumseh is asking whether we should get a 1-seed in this scenario, and my response is: I have no idea.

uh_no
02-15-2011, 12:39 PM
Hopefully it won't be an issue. As someone posted in another thread, if Duke were to win the ACC tournament and lose fewer than 2 games before that, I expect Duke would be a #1 seed. If Duke loses two or more games before the NCAA tournament, it could become an issue. Hypothetically, of course.

This still depends on one of the top 4 teams faltering....OSU is pretty much a lock, and pitt is getting close. I think texas or kansas can play their way out of a 1 seed, but duke needs some help from one of those teams to sneak in

hillsborodevil
02-15-2011, 12:42 PM
I know we have Kyrie threads on here. I get it. I know we have "vigils" and things like that. I know we've all discussed him in more detail than one can possibly almost bear.

However, I have a question that maybe some of you who are more "in the know" than I am can answer.

* I've rarely seen a star player on ANY level of sports aside from highschool, taken on an injury like Kyrie has, then when he looks to be on a positive road, suddenly everything goes dead silent. I know I know, Coach K says he doesnt expect him back, but really, is that the entirety of the matter? IM just curious.

He got his cast off and I've heard little to nothing in terms of official reports on his status (good or bad) since the day his cast came off. At this point (mid Feb), they're not even ruling him out which confuses me. If he's not officially ruled out, doesnt that mean he "could" come back this year? If he "could" come back this year, wouldnt we be hearing about some sort of rehab? Again, I apologize if any of this information HAS been released. I've just missed it if it has.

I'm just curious because it seems like based on the timing of the season, someone has to know something at this point. Even if he didnt come back and finish the season, at this point I would think someone would be saying "we're setting a date for his return at XXXXX, assuming all goes as planned".

I would think if he's not going to be ready at this point, they'd clearly know and say as much which makes me think they're still planning on his return.

OK my ADD got the best of me on this post and it was much longer than necessary. ;)

Could this possibly hurt recruiting in the future? Well over two months injured and no ETA. If I am a HS player this story may sway my commitment from Duke. Is Durham the City of Medicine?

Of course Durham is the City of Medicine and Duke is rated one the best hospitals in the country but a young man west of the Mississippi deciding on Duke might remember this fiasco.

Yes - my frustration is showing

mkline09
02-15-2011, 12:42 PM
I think tecumseh is asking whether we should get a 1-seed in this scenario, and my response is: I have no idea.

I don't think they do get a No. 1 seed without winning the ACC Tournament even with Kyrie Irving.

NSDukeFan
02-15-2011, 12:45 PM
This still depends on one of the top 4 teams faltering....OSU is pretty much a lock, and pitt is getting close. I think texas or kansas can play their way out of a 1 seed, but duke needs some help from one of those teams to sneak in

I agree with you, but if Duke does only lose one more game before the NCAA tournament, I can almost guarantee you that they will get a #1 seed, as there will be more losses for other top ranked teams by then as well. On the other hand, for Duke to get to the NCAA tournament with less than two losses would be a great accomplishment. I would love to see it and am very confident they would get a #1 seed if that were the case. At worst, (if no one lost unexpectedly, which will not happen) they would have to beat out a Big-12 runnerup with 3 or 4 losses for the last #1, which I think they would, in this scenario.

uh_no
02-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Could this possibly hurt recruiting in the future?
Of course Durham is the City of Medicine and Duke is rated one the best hospitals in the country but a young man west of the Mississippi deciding on Duke might remember this fiasco.
g

Seriously? We've gotten 2 top level recruits in the past 2 weeks.

The Gordog
02-15-2011, 12:47 PM
Just suppose that Kyrie comes back for limited action in the ACC tourney (which Duke for sake of argument does not win) and the Duke staff announces he should be ready to go for NCAA tourney. How would that and should that effect the seeding?
I seem to remember the committee taking into account injuries and returns from injury in the past. If we lose a close game or two without him, and then he comes back then I think those losses have less weight against us.

gam7
02-15-2011, 12:55 PM
I seem to remember the committee taking into account injuries and returns from injury in the past. If we lose a close game or two without him, and then he comes back then I think those losses have less weight against us.

We've definitely seen late-season injuries impact team seeding to the downside (e.g., Cincinnati with Kenyon Martin's injury; Purdue with Hummel last year), but I don't think it would have the same impact to the upside. It's not clear how the addition of a player who has been out for many months and may or may not be 100% would help a team going forward, whereas a team that relies heavily on one person who gets hurt at the very end of the year clearly will hurt a team going forward.

uh_no
02-15-2011, 12:56 PM
I seem to remember the committee taking into account injuries and returns from injury in the past. If we lose a close game or two without him, and then he comes back then I think those losses have less weight against us.

In this case it's hard to say. Usually the consideration is if a team is markedly better with the player. i don't think we have enough of a sample size (or the committee does anyway) to determine this. If kyrie came back for the acc tournament and we won all the games by 30 points? perhaps, but highly unlikely

MCFinARL
02-15-2011, 12:58 PM
Could this possibly hurt recruiting in the future? Well over two months injured and no ETA. If I am a HS player this story may sway my commitment from Duke.


Well, it's impossible to anticipate the thinking of high school kids, but it seems to me that the careful way Duke has handled this injury, always putting Kyrie's full recovery first, would be a draw for recruits with NBA prospects, rather than a negative. Having no ETA even now means that Kyrie's best interests are still coming first. If and when he is ready to play, he will play; it won't be based on an arbitrary timetable.

And another thought--if they set an ETA and, for some reason, Kyrie didn't get back then, might that raise questions about his long-term health for NBA teams? Because then he isn't someone who is still healing, he is someone who isn't healing as fast as expected. So it's also in his interest not to set a date.

nmduke2001
02-15-2011, 01:09 PM
i have thought this all along.......i'm a dad and my son was a ball player......if this was my son, i would strongly advise him to come back to college next year and maybe even beyond that.......you only get one chance in life to enjoy the college experience......don't let it pass........also, he is a smart kid that should get an education.......a degree........the money for him will always be there.......youth passes very quickly......stay in school Kyrie.......YO WILL NEVER REGRET IT.......

I can't agree with this. The money might not always be there. Players get hurt. Car and motorcycle accidents happen (ask Hurley and JWill). On the other hand, college will always be there.

Chris Burgess could have gone straight to the NBA out of high school based soley on potential. I bet he regrets his decision to go to college. Obviously, Chris and Kyrie are very different, but I'm just using Chris as an example of a kid not making the fortunes that everyone thought would be waiting for him.

I would love for Kyrie to return next year, but I would be happy for him if he decides to leave. He seems like a great kid. I am sure that he will do what is best for him and his family.

OldPhiKap
02-15-2011, 01:16 PM
They'll know when they know, and then we'll know. Not before.

There's no conspiracy of silence here (although K certainly wants his team to focus on itself and not look over its shoulder). There's no way of knowing when he can play until he's ready to play. Until then, he's rehab'n it.








(I should have been a philosopher, but I'm alergic to hemlock.)

jtelander
02-15-2011, 01:17 PM
Could Of course Durham is the City of Medicine and Duke is rated one the best hospitals in the country but a young man west of the Mississippi deciding on Duke might remember this fiasco.



Exactly what fiasco might be remembered in your scenario?

I don't see a fiasco.

wilson
02-15-2011, 01:20 PM
Could this possibly hurt recruiting in the future? Well over two months injured and no ETA. If I am a HS player this story may sway my commitment from Duke. Is Durham the City of Medicine?

Of course Durham is the City of Medicine and Duke is rated one the best hospitals in the country but a young man west of the Mississippi deciding on Duke might remember this fiasco.

Yes - my frustration is showingWhy in the world would our staff's handling a freak injury with the utmost of care and respect for the young man's future hurt recruiting? I just don't see the logic in this question.

Channing
02-15-2011, 01:37 PM
Could this possibly hurt recruiting in the future? Well over two months injured and no ETA. If I am a HS player this story may sway my commitment from Duke. Is Durham the City of Medicine?

Of course Durham is the City of Medicine and Duke is rated one the best hospitals in the country but a young man west of the Mississippi deciding on Duke might remember this fiasco.
Yes - my frustration is showing

What fiasco? That term connotes mishandling at every stage. The only possible mishandling was when Kyrie went back in the game against Butler - and my guess is that he told coach he could play. Kyrie has received world class (literally) care at Duke. So the coaching staff isn't giving an update on a daily basis - big whoop. They aren't out to appease the fans, they are out to win a championship. If keeping silent perhaps gives them something to use in a gamesmanship sense, great. Or, possibly, we haven't heard anything becaue there isn't anything to report. This isn't a torn ACL which is seen and dealt with on a regular basis. This is a bit of a freak injury and everyone seems to be figuring out timetables together.

Why are you frustrated? Disappointed ... maybe (I know I am disappointed Kyrie hasn't been able to play most of the season). But generally frustration requires a target.

Matches
02-15-2011, 01:39 PM
I can't agree with this. The money might not always be there. Players get hurt. Car and motorcycle accidents happen (ask Hurley and JWill). On the other hand, college will always be there.

Chris Burgess could have gone straight to the NBA out of high school based soley on potential. I bet he regrets his decision to go to college. Obviously, Chris and Kyrie are very different, but I'm just using Chris as an example of a kid not making the fortunes that everyone thought would be waiting for him.



Yup. Consider also the case of Josh McRoberts, who went from being a likely lottery pick after his freshman year to being a second-round pick following his sophomore season. Strictly from a financial perspective (and I realize that finances aren't the only consideration, but of course they're a major one), coming back was a mistake.

I'd love love love to have Kyrie back for another year - but his stock isn't going to go UP if he returns. It can only go down. And if he does have another significant injury next year, he may get tagged with the "injury-prone" label, which certainly could hurt his status.

College WILL always be there. Youth won't. But too often in these types of discussions, there's an assumption that if a player leaves school, they've passed on education forever, and that just isn't the case.

dukelifer
02-15-2011, 01:41 PM
Could this possibly hurt recruiting in the future? Well over two months injured and no ETA. If I am a HS player this story may sway my commitment from Duke. Is Durham the City of Medicine?

Of course Durham is the City of Medicine and Duke is rated one the best hospitals in the country but a young man west of the Mississippi deciding on Duke might remember this fiasco.

Yes - my frustration is showing

I heard that one of the reasons Harrison Barnes went to Carolina was because he was worried about the toe care at Duke which has been somewhat suspect since '98 when Duke lost the best toe guys on the East Coast. Can't get toe care like you used to around these parts.

JasonEvans
02-15-2011, 01:46 PM
This still depends on one of the top 4 teams faltering....OSU is pretty much a lock, and pitt is getting close. I think texas or kansas can play their way out of a 1 seed, but duke needs some help from one of those teams to sneak in

Ummm, OSU ain't anywhere close to being a lock. They still have 3 extremely difficult games left on their schedule (one of which is on the road -- at Purdue) and still have the B10 schedule to play. If they finish all that with only 1 more loss, they will be a #1 seed. But, if they were to lose at Purdue or to Illinois or Wisconsin, and then lost in the B10 tourney, I could easily see them being a #2 seed.

-Jason "still too many games against too many good teams for anyone to feel like they have anything locked up" Evans

MChambers
02-15-2011, 01:48 PM
Chris Burgess could have gone straight to the NBA out of high school based soley on potential. I bet he regrets his decision to go to college. Obviously, Chris and Kyrie are very different, but I'm just using Chris as an example of a kid not making the fortunes that everyone thought would be waiting for him.

So let me get this straight. Burgess goes directly out of high school, is maybe a middle of the first round pick, gets an okay 3 year deal. Turns out he can't play in the NBA. Only gets off the bench in total garbage time, ends up playing two of the three years in the developmental league.

So he's made some money, but not huge amounts, and he's been labeled as a complete bust in some big city.

How much better off would he have been?

nocilla
02-15-2011, 01:49 PM
I get that his stock can't get any higher, but his level of play can. Just because you leave when your stock is the highest doesn't mean you will maximize on your talents and/or potential money. If you go when your stock is high, say like Will Avery, but you aren't actually ready, you may not get ample time to develop fully. So you get a rookie deal but nothing else after that because you weren't able to meet expectations, yet. If you take another year to develop, even if your stock goes down, you can get a better return on investment down the road after you played out your rookie deal and proved your worthiness. Now Kyrie does seem NBA ready, so I don't foresee a Will Avery situation, but even if he drops from a top 5 pick to a top 20 pick after next season, he may benefit in the long run from another year of developement.

UrinalCake
02-15-2011, 01:52 PM
College WILL always be there. Youth won't. But too often in these types of discussions, there's an assumption that if a player leaves school, they've passed on education forever, and that just isn't the case.

I think when people say that college won't always be there, what they mean is that the fun and camaraderie of playing basketball in college won't always be there, and that once you move on to the next level it becomes a business and you can't go back. That might be a naive way of thinking as a fan, but there are several examples of guys for whom spending another year as a kid was important, and it didn't hurt their professional careers at all (Duncan, Tebow, et. al.) I know that these guys are the exception rather than the norm, but everyone's situation is different so there are no hard and fast rules concerning when is the right time to go.

Matches
02-15-2011, 02:00 PM
So let me get this straight. Burgess goes directly out of high school, is maybe a middle of the first round pick, gets an okay 3 year deal. Turns out he can't play in the NBA. Only gets off the bench in total garbage time, ends up playing two of the three years in the developmental league.

So he's made some money, but not huge amounts, and he's been labeled as a complete bust in some big city.

How much better off would he have been?

About 4-5 million dollars better off. C'mon, that is a "huge" amount of money by the standards of 99.9% of people.

Matches
02-15-2011, 02:02 PM
I think when people say that college won't always be there, what they mean is that the fun and camaraderie of playing basketball in college won't always be there, and that once you move on to the next level it becomes a business and you can't go back. That might be a naive way of thinking as a fan, but there are several examples of guys for whom spending another year as a kid was important, and it didn't hurt their professional careers at all (Duncan, Tebow, et. al.) I know that these guys are the exception rather than the norm, but everyone's situation is different so there are no hard and fast rules concerning when is the right time to go.

Absolutely. Hard to argue with Duncan's path - clearly it worked out wonderfully for him. And yeah, I do get that you're only young once, and that going back to college later in life doesn't really replicate that experience. I just hear over and over in these discussions about how that experience is "priceless", and I think that's a remarkably easy thing for a FAN to say. For the player, that experience isn't priceless at all - it comes with a very specific price tag in many cases.

nmduke2001
02-15-2011, 02:04 PM
So let me get this straight. Burgess goes directly out of high school, is maybe a middle of the first round pick, gets an okay 3 year deal. Turns out he can't play in the NBA. Only gets off the bench in total garbage time, ends up playing two of the three years in the developmental league.

So he's made some money, but not huge amounts, and he's been labeled as a complete bust in some big city.

How much better off would he have been?

I'd say much better. He would have earned a million or two over the years. As it stands, he was hurt while playing at Utah and never sniffed the league. Maybe he never gets hurt if he goes to the NBA. Maybe his huge ego is good for his NBA development and he excels.

All I am saying is that opportunities to earn large sums of money to play a game are few and far between and most certainly not guaranteed.

Kedsy
02-15-2011, 02:08 PM
Could this possibly hurt recruiting in the future? Well over two months injured and no ETA. If I am a HS player this story may sway my commitment from Duke. Is Durham the City of Medicine?

Of course Durham is the City of Medicine and Duke is rated one the best hospitals in the country but a young man west of the Mississippi deciding on Duke might remember this fiasco.

Yes - my frustration is showing

Are you serious? Why would a recruit care if the team fails to make a public statement? If anything, I think it would be the opposite. Duke has made it quite clear that getting Kyrie healthy is more important than whether he plays or not. Who wouldn't want that sort of selfless dedication from your coaching and medical staff?

I think what you and civileng68 fail to realize is the fans are the least important people in this scenario. There is simply no reason for an update unless something definitive has happened, and apparently that's not the case. If some fans are unable or unwilling to accept the lack of information, they're just going to have to live with the disappointment.


We've definitely seen late-season injuries impact team seeding to the downside (e.g., Cincinnati with Kenyon Martin's injury; Purdue with Hummel last year), but I don't think it would have the same impact to the upside. It's not clear how the addition of a player who has been out for many months and may or may not be 100% would help a team going forward, whereas a team that relies heavily on one person who gets hurt at the very end of the year clearly will hurt a team going forward.

Well, it's fairly common for teams to hide or downplay injuries (saying the player would "probably play" in the NCAAT) for seeding purposes. Didn't Syracuse do it just last year?

My memory is a little foggy on this point, but didn't Coach K do it in 2001, saying Boozer would be back? I seem to remember at the time thinking he was speaking to the committee as much as anybody else, so they'd seed the team assuming Boozer was part of it. But I suppose it's possible I imagined it...

bluepenguin
02-15-2011, 02:18 PM
Will History Repeat Itself?
History ALWAYS repeats itself!

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 02:35 PM
Absolutely. Hard to argue with Duncan's path - clearly it worked out wonderfully for him. And yeah, I do get that you're only young once, and that going back to college later in life doesn't really replicate that experience. I just hear over and over in these discussions about how that experience is "priceless", and I think that's a remarkably easy thing for a FAN to say. For the player, that experience isn't priceless at all - it comes with a very specific price tag in many cases.

Grant had the opportunity to come out after his sophmore year and be a lottery pick. Duke had just won their second championship and Grant was sensational in the ACC tournament championship game and the NCAA championship game against Michigan and the fab 5. The Charlotte Hornets at the time had serious interest in Grant and would have strongly considered taking Grant over Alonzo Mourning with their lottery pick (I believe they had the number 2 or 3 pick in the 1992 draft). Clearly, it worked out well with Grant almost winning a third NCAA championship his senior year, being selected as the 3rd pick in the 1994 draft and winning co-rookie of the year with Jason Kidd.

BD80
02-15-2011, 02:36 PM
History ALWAYS repeats itself!

Disco will be back? Oh, the humanity!

OldPhiKap
02-15-2011, 02:38 PM
History ALWAYS repeats itself!

History never repeats itself. But it sure rhymes a lot.

jtelander
02-15-2011, 02:41 PM
That said, I've predicted he's coming back on Feb. 20th. Or Feb. 23rd. Our two home games later this month.

At this juncture, those two games are 5 and 8 days away, respectively.

I'll be shocked (albeit pleasantly) if you are right.

Hard to believe we are already in the middle of February, and now that its here, I don't believe there is enough time to get him back.

Matches
02-15-2011, 02:44 PM
Grant had the opportunity to come out after his sophmore year and be a lottery pick. Duke had just won their second championship and Grant was sensational in the ACC tournament championship game and the NCAA championship game against Michigan and the fab 5. The Charlotte Hornets at the time had serious interest in Grant and would have strongly considered taking Grant over Alonzo Mourning with their lottery pick (I believe they had the number 2 or 3 pick in the 1992 draft). Clearly, it worked out well with Grant almost winning a third NCAA championship his senior year, being selected as the 3rd pick in the 1994 draft and winning co-rookie of the year with Jason Kidd.

You're right, of course, but I find it hard to compare Grant's situation to the present-day. The landscape has changed so much in the 17 years since Grant graduated (geez that makes me feel old).

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 02:54 PM
You're right, of course, but I find it hard to compare Grant's situation to the present-day. The landscape has changed so much in the 17 years since Grant graduated (geez that makes me feel old).

I can't believe that it has been that since I was an undergrad on campus....Wow.

But Regardless of when, it is more than likely that he will leave school early at some point; and I hope he makes the decision to come back in the summers and work towards getting his degree. And while I would cheer for him in the NBA, it would be great to hear that he earned his degree from Duke at some point in the future.

MChambers
02-15-2011, 03:04 PM
About 4-5 million dollars better off. C'mon, that is a "huge" amount of money by the standards of 99.9% of people.
It's huge by my standards, just to be clear. But I'm not convinced he'd have been better off. (Ken Burgess probably thinks so, however.)

CameronBlue
02-15-2011, 03:06 PM
At this juncture, those two games are 5 and 8 days away, respectively.

I'll be shocked (albeit pleasantly) if you are right.




Anything's possible. God made the world in 6 days. (Course, Nate was the project manager just to keep things on schedule.)

MChambers
02-15-2011, 03:06 PM
I'd say much better. He would have earned a million or two over the years. As it stands, he was hurt while playing at Utah and never sniffed the league. Maybe he never gets hurt if he goes to the NBA. Maybe his huge ego is good for his NBA development and he excels.

All I am saying is that opportunities to earn large sums of money to play a game are few and far between and most certainly not guaranteed.
Or maybe he has a worse injury in the NBA. I don't think you can use the Utah injury as part of the argument. And he wouldn't have excelled in the NBA, no matter the circumstances.

cato
02-15-2011, 03:37 PM
Or maybe he has a worse injury in the NBA. I don't think you can use the Utah injury as part of the argument. And he wouldn't have excelled in the NBA, no matter the circumstances.

From a purely financial standpoint, incurring an injury after you have signed a guaranteed contract for millions of dollars is much preferable to incurring that injury before you sign the contract.

There may be many reasons for deciding to delay entry into the NBA, but I think that fans (and teens/young adults) often do not fully calculate the very real financial risks involved with delaying that first contract.

NashvilleDevil
02-15-2011, 03:37 PM
You're right, of course, but I find it hard to compare Grant's situation to the present-day. The landscape has changed so much in the 17 years since Grant graduated (geez that makes me feel old).

Weren't rookie contracts a lot larger when Grant entered the league?

hillsborodevil
02-15-2011, 03:39 PM
I think what you and civileng68 fail to realize is the fans are the least important people in this scenario. There is simply no reason for an update unless something definitive has happened, and apparently that's not the case. If some fans are unable or unwilling to accept the lack of information, they're just going to have to live with the disappointment....

and your reading this blog for????

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 03:49 PM
Weren't rookie contracts a lot larger when Grant entered the league?

Yes with longer guaranteed years as well.

MChambers
02-15-2011, 04:16 PM
From a purely financial standpoint, incurring an injury after you have signed a guaranteed contract for millions of dollars is much preferable to incurring that injury before you sign the contract.

There may be many reasons for deciding to delay entry into the NBA, but I think that fans (and teens/young adults) often do not fully calculate the very real financial risks involved with delaying that first contract.
Agree on the injury point, but the argument I was responding was that perhaps Burgess never would have been injured had he gone to the NBA directly. Maybe, but there's really no reason to think so.

I agree that there are risks on delaying, but I also expect that very few who go into the NBA as soon as possible think they are doing so solely to ensure that they get that first contract. They all think they're going to sign Kevin Garnett-like contracts a few years later. I'm willing to bet that few take the proceeds of that first contract and salt them away in sound financial assets.

OldPhiKap
02-15-2011, 04:29 PM
FWIW, I think this has devolved into two different threads.

One is discussing Kyrie's healing, and whether he will be able to come back this year.

The other is whether he will or won't come back next year.

Maybe the mods can split this, because I don't really think arguing that Kyrie should bolt is useful or necessarily appropriate at this stage of the season. I'll worry about next year after we finish this one, and do not see the point in arguing about why he is better off going instead of staying.

Just sayin'.





Oh yeah, and get those @#$^ kids off my lawn too. Stupid @#$@# music . . . .

nmduke2001
02-15-2011, 04:39 PM
Agree on the injury point, but the argument I was responding was that perhaps Burgess never would have been injured had he gone to the NBA directly. Maybe, but there's really no reason to think so.



I was merely trying to make the point that there is no such thing as guaranteed future riches. Injuries can occur. No one could say with any certainty that Chris would not have been hurt in the NBA. That was a mistake to include that "what if" scenario, but had he been in the league when injured at least he would have had a contract to fall back on.

I think people are not being realistic when they make the argument that the NBA will always be there. Injuries derail NBA dreams quite often.

WVDUKEFAN
02-15-2011, 05:07 PM
FWIW, I think this has devolved into two different threads.

One is discussing Kyrie's healing, and whether he will be able to come back this year.

The other is whether he will or won't come back next year.

Maybe the mods can split this, because I don't really think arguing that Kyrie should bolt is useful or necessarily appropriate at this stage of the season. I'll worry about next year after we finish this one, and do not see the point in arguing about why he is better off going instead of staying.

Just sayin'.





Oh yeah, and get those @#$^ kids off my lawn too. Stupid @#$@# music . . . .

I agree with PhiKap. This is about the rehab.. Not how much money he could make or the NBA draft pick. Does anyone have any info on the TOE?

wilko
02-15-2011, 05:23 PM
I agree with PhiKap. This is about the rehab.. Not how much money he could make or the NBA draft pick. Does anyone have any info on the TOE?

Yeah..... stay on Toepic...
I've been checking and checking this thread for an actual update/sighting... and get folks arguing about possible money someone ELSE (other than the particiapants) may make...

JasonEvans
02-15-2011, 05:31 PM
Even before PhiKap said it, I was already thinking about how this thread has evolved.

So, from now on please be aware that this thread is for discussing the medical situation involving Kyrie's toe and the potential for his return to the team this season. If you want to talk about his draft stock or other unrelated topics, please find another thread for that.

--Jason "the mod has spoken ;) "Evans

Bojangles4Eva
02-15-2011, 05:47 PM
Just looked at this thread hoping for some sort of medical update given the explosion of posts in the last 12 hrs.....sigh.

Here's my 2c on this whole thing, so take it or leave it, but I'd like to think there are better things to do with my time than worry about an injury, or a one-and-done departure of a great player (and human being) which I have no control over. Its best just to focus on the present team, which is making great strides over the last two weeks. Keeping this mindset, if he happens to return it will be a pleasant suprise, and in the meantime I don't have to get all wrapped up and jammed over something I cannot possibly influence.

Greg_Newton
02-15-2011, 05:49 PM
Does anyone have any info on the TOE?

Report over at TDD says that he's testing out the toe with some light practice, FWIW... shooting, jogging, etc.



(mods feel free to delete if this is too "rumorous", I just figured it was innocuous enough)

uh_no
02-15-2011, 05:55 PM
Report over at TDD says that he's testing out the toe with some light practice, FWIW... shooting, jogging, etc.



(mods feel free to delete if this is too "rumorous", I just figured it was innocuous enough)

rumor or not, this is what one owuld expect at this stage in the game. He's finally out of the boot, so shooting is innocuous enough. light jogging is a good step in any rehab process. While good signs, neither really puts huge amounts of stress on the toe relative to what you would get at game speed.

I think we can stay with reasonable return time at the end of the regular season

OZZIE4DUKE
02-15-2011, 06:08 PM
Report over at TDD says that he's testing out the toe with some light practice, FWIW... shooting, jogging, etc.



(mods feel free to delete if this is too "rumorous", I just figured it was innocuous enough)


rumor or not, this is what one owuld expect at this stage in the game. He's finally out of the boot, so shooting is innocuous enough. light jogging is a good step in any rehab process. While good signs, neither really puts huge amounts of stress on the toe relative to what you would get at game speed.

I think we can stay with reasonable return time at the end of the regular season
Walking, light jogging? Shooting? Some light practice? Hmmm. Where did I read that this might happen about this time after the cast came off? I think I wrote that! :cool:


As the week moves on, probably day 5 or 6 (try to keep the kid from starting - I dare you!), I envision some individual basketball related activities at slow speeds with a trainer. No pain? He's jogging now. Building some wind. A lot of wind! Add a teammate, then two to the drills. Not full speed yet by any means, but maybe 3/4 speed - faster than you and I could move in our dreams, but slow for him. Assuming no pain, no re-injury. 10 days into rehab now, it's Feb. 14 say. Kyrie starts to practice with the full team on a limited basis in closed practices under a cloak of secrecy . He is not in uniform for the game on the 16th in Charlottesville.

uh_no
02-15-2011, 06:15 PM
Walking, light jogging? Shooting? Some light practice? Hmmm. Where did I read that this might happen about this time after the cast came off? I think I wrote that! :cool:

thanks oh savant :P

OZZIE4DUKE
02-15-2011, 06:20 PM
thanks oh savant :P
You're welcome. :p I just want to be right about the February 20th part...

wsb3
02-15-2011, 06:32 PM
I am sticking to early March.. Just a feeling, and well something I read.:cool:

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 07:21 PM
I am sticking to early March.. Just a feeling, and well something I read.:cool:

Another benefit to the secrecy is that it gives opposing coaches less time to plan for KI playing with the team. Can you imagine how UNC would react if KI showed up at the Carolina game in Chapel Hill dressed in uniform? As we get closer to the end of February and early March, it will be interesting to see if Roy or any of the coaches whose teams are slated to play Duke at the end of February/early March (ACC tournament) prepare their respective teams defensively for the possibility of KI playing.

gam7
02-15-2011, 07:31 PM
Well, it's fairly common for teams to hide or downplay injuries (saying the player would "probably play" in the NCAAT) for seeding purposes. Didn't Syracuse do it just last year?

My memory is a little foggy on this point, but didn't Coach K do it in 2001, saying Boozer would be back? I seem to remember at the time thinking he was speaking to the committee as much as anybody else, so they'd seed the team assuming Boozer was part of it. But I suppose it's possible I imagined it...

I don't recall what Syracuse did last year, but if they downplayed an injury at the end of the year, and Coach K downplayed Boozer's injury in 2001, it is consistent with my point, which was that a late-season injury to a key player may very well result in a lower seed than a team otherwise would get (like Cincinnati with kenyon Martin's injury and Purdue last year). Syracuse and Coach K didn't want the committee to downgrade their seeds on the assumption that players would be out for the tournament.

I'm just not sure that the opposite is true - that when a key player has been out all year and that player comes back on the eve of the tournament, the team will get a higher seed than it otherwise would have received.

Kedsy
02-15-2011, 07:34 PM
I don't recall what Syracuse did last year, but if they downplayed an injury at the end of the year, and Coach K downplayed Boozer's injury in 2001, it is consistent with my point, which was that a late-season injury to a key player may very well result in a lower seed than a team otherwise would get (like Cincinnati with kenyon Martin's injury and Purdue last year). Syracuse and Coach K didn't want the committee to downgrade their seeds on the assumption that players would be out for the tournament.

I'm just not sure that the opposite is true - that when a key player has been out all year and that player comes back on the eve of the tournament, the team will get a higher seed than it otherwise would have received.

Well, you could be right. It seems like a fine line. Boozer was out when the tourney started in 2001. If my memory is right that K said he'd be back, it could have been an attempt to get a higher seed than he otherwise would get if Boozer was going to stay out.

Put another way, if you're trying to avoid getting a lower seed, isn't that the same as trying to get a higher seed?

Mike Corey
02-15-2011, 07:51 PM
Report over at TDD says that he's testing out the toe with some light practice, FWIW... shooting, jogging, etc.



(mods feel free to delete if this is too "rumorous", I just figured it was innocuous enough)

To be fair, the "report" on TDD is from a poster that hasn't posted in months. No one knows who he is, and he is posting with more confidence than can be reasonably expected. I would humbly advise you to disregard.

patentgeek
02-15-2011, 08:02 PM
Well, you could be right. It seems like a fine line. Boozer was out when the tourney started in 2001. If my memory is right that K said he'd be back, it could have been an attempt to get a higher seed than he otherwise would get if Boozer was going to stay out.

Put another way, if you're trying to avoid getting a lower seed, isn't that the same as trying to get a higher seed?

Recall also that, without Boozer, Duke both beat UNC in the season finale AND won the ACC tournament (beating both Maryland and the hated Heels), so the tournament committee had more than just speculation about Duke w/ or w/o Boozer to go on.

OldPhiKap
02-15-2011, 08:09 PM
Even before PhiKap said it, I was already thinking about how this thread has evolved.

So, from now on please be aware that this thread is for discussing the medical situation involving Kyrie's toe and the potential for his return to the team this season. If you want to talk about his draft stock or other unrelated topics, please find another thread for that.

--Jason "the mod has spoken ;) "Evans

Thanks Jason. I started a comment to you but got cut off before finishing or signing. -- OPK

Greg_Newton
02-15-2011, 08:15 PM
To be fair, the "report" on TDD is from a poster that hasn't posted in months. No one knows who he is, and he is posting with more confidence than can be reasonably expected. I would humbly advise you to disregard.

Yeah, looks I judged that one wrong. I was just trying to offer up something remotely Kyrie-related, but oh well... I'd go back and delete it but it's been too long.

uh_no
02-15-2011, 08:44 PM
Yeah, looks I judged that one wrong.

REgardless, thats teh kind of thing you'd be doing in this stage of rehab, so report or no, its a good bet that he's doing some light jogging and shooting./

Newton_14
02-15-2011, 08:53 PM
REgardless, thats teh kind of thing you'd be doing in this stage of rehab, so report or no, its a good bet that he's doing some light jogging and shooting./

I agree. In the Collins interview with Dave Glenn yesterday that Ozzie posted about, Collins indicated that Kyrie was doing strength and agility rehab work with 2 shoes on, which like Oz, I took as a very good sign. I went to 99.9 The Fan's website hoping that the interview as posted online but could not find it. Will post a link if I find it.

Collins did not elaborate on exactly what the rehab entailed, so no clue there.

Greg_Newton
02-15-2011, 08:57 PM
I agree. In the Collins interview with Dave Glenn yesterday that Ozzie posted about, Collins indicated that Kyrie was doing strength and agility rehab work with 2 shoes on, which like Oz, I took as a very good sign. I went to 99.9 The Fan's website hoping that the interview as posted online but could not find it. Will post a link if I find it.

Collins did not elaborate on exactly what the rehab entailed, so no clue there.

Link to the interview: http://www.accsports.com/blogs/david-glenn/201102149844/david-glenn-chats-with-chris-collins-feb-15.php

Newton_14
02-15-2011, 09:18 PM
Link to the interview: http://www.accsports.com/blogs/david-glenn/201102149844/david-glenn-chats-with-chris-collins-feb-15.php

Thanks GN! I searched the WRAL and 99.9 sites and noticed they have audio files stored for 2 of their other shows, but not the Dave Glenn Show. Looks like his are stored on his ACC site instead. Great find and thanks for sharing it!

OZZIE4DUKE
02-15-2011, 09:29 PM
Thanks GN! I searched the WRAL and 99.9 sites and noticed they have audio files stored for 2 of their other shows, but not the Dave Glenn Show. Looks like his are stored on his ACC site instead. Great find and thanks for sharing it!
David Glenn's call in number is the same 800 number fans used to call Johnny Dawkins on after Duke home games to speak with him. 800-849-2761, just in case anyone wants it. :rolleyes:

Highlander
02-16-2011, 07:11 AM
David Glenn's call in number is the same 800 number fans used to call Johnny Dawkins on after Duke home games to speak with him. 800-849-2761, just in case anyone wants it. :rolleyes:

At first I thought you were talking about Dawkins still being at Duke. Then I saw the "used to" line.

As for Kyrie - Charlotte radio this morning was full of hyperbole about Duke WITH Kyrie could beat anyone in the NBA, but WITHOUT him they could only beat most of the NBA. No new information, other than the man, the myth, the legend continues to grow.

Starter
02-16-2011, 01:26 PM
From a Chad Ford chat (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/37026) this afternoon on ESPN (it's toward the bottom):


kshiz ((chicago))

If Kyrie Irving does come out this season - how high is his ceiling? His game reminds me an awful lot of Chris Paul ...

Chad Ford (1:57 PM)

Not as quick or explosive as Paul. In a good draft, he's a mid lottery pick. But in this draft, he could be No. 1 overall -- if he comes out. Lots of talk he's staying at Duke for another season.

Honestly, I've had that feeling all along, and it's not that he wouldn't be pretty much a guaranteed top 3 pick if he comes out. Kyrie strikes me as a good kid who really wants to enjoy whatever time he spends at college. I'm sure he's enjoying Duke now, but I'm sure he feels like he has unfinished business in that he really didn't get a college career. I think he's going to weigh his options and determine that playing with Austin Rivers and putting his own stamp on Duke basketball is the right way to go. He loves Duke, he always has. I do think he's back next year.

Note: If I put this in the wrong Kyrie Irving thread, please feel free to move it to the right one. It's hard to keep track.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-16-2011, 04:38 PM
Jason Williams was on Adam Gold's show again this afternoon. After asking Adam what he thought Kyrie should do, Jason said he didn't think Kyrie should play again this year, that there was "no upside" to his doing so. He's already projected to go in the top three of the draft if he wants, so all he can do is hurt his position. This takes the position that it's all about Kyrie's "future career" and his earnings. Now please, don't get me wrong. I hope Kyrie, and all our players, have a long and prosperous career in the NBA or anywhere else they want after their college careers are over, but quite honestly, my primary interests don't align with Jason Williams', or for that matter with Kyrie's dad's.

I don't give a rat's patootie if any of them ever play one day in the NBA. I want them to play for Duke. I want them to play for MY TEAM. If it was "all about the money", let them take out the insurance policies to protect their futures against injuries - I would think that Nolan and Kyle did this. Maybe Kyrie has or can/will too. Certainly if he comes back for next season he will.

Yes, this is selfish. I care about them as people and as human beings, but as far as basketball players, I only care about them because they are Duke basketball players.

Greg_Newton
02-16-2011, 04:52 PM
...Jason said he didn't think Kyrie should play again this year, that there was "no upside" to his doing so. He's already projected to go in the top three of the draft if he wants, so all he can do is hurt his position. This takes the position that it's all about Kyrie's "future career" and his earnings. Now please, don't get me wrong. I hope Kyrie, and all our players, have a long and prosperous career in the NBA or anywhere else they want after their college careers are over, but quite honestly, my primary interests don't align with Jason Williams', or for that matter with Kyrie's dad's.

Well, and also, that kind of thinking is a slap in the face to Duke. When a player receives preferred admission and a full $50k scholarship to a university in exchange for playing on a sports team (not to mention a prime spot in a hall-of-famer's recruiting plan), it's a mutual commitment. Both sides are expected to hold up their end of the relationship; simply showcasing your skills for a few games until scouts have seen enough then deciding to stop might be legal, but it would be extremely unethical and disrespectful to the students and university.

To be clear - I do not for a second think Kyrie would choose to do this if he were fully healthy, and do not think his father would want him to either. Kyrie has been the ideal teammate and member of the Duke community, and everything I've heard about his father makes him seem like a great guy and great father. But it irks me when people use that kind of reasoning...

ChicagoCrazy84
02-16-2011, 04:58 PM
Jason Williams was on Adam Gold's show again this afternoon. After asking Adam what he thought Kyrie should do, Jason said he didn't think Kyrie should play again this year, that there was "no upside" to his doing so. He's already projected to go in the top three of the draft if he wants, so all he can do is hurt his position. This takes the position that it's all about Kyrie's "future career" and his earnings. Now please, don't get me wrong. I hope Kyrie, and all our players, have a long and prosperous career in the NBA or anywhere else they want after their college careers are over, but quite honestly, my primary interests don't align with Jason Williams', or for that matter with Kyrie's dad's.

I don't give a rat's patootie if any of them ever play one day in the NBA. I want them to play for Duke. I want them to play for MY TEAM. If it was "all about the money", let them take out the insurance policies to protect their futures against injuries - I would think that Nolan and Kyle did this. Maybe Kyrie has or can/will too. Certainly if he comes back for next season he will.

Yes, this is selfish. I care about them as people and as human beings, but as far as basketball players, I only care about them because they are Duke basketball players.


I can see your point of view and I respect it, BUT I do disagree. As a Duke fan, part of what I take pride in is what our guys do after school, on or off the basketball court. I love seeing Grant, Elton, Mike Dunleavy, Luol, Dahntay, Carlos, JJ, etc, etc, etc have long prosperous careers. It makes me happy because you know these guys will be soldiers for Duke their entire lives.
I disagree with Jason under different sentiments. Look, the way I see it, Kyrie committed to play for Duke because he loved it here and he wants to win here. This isn't triple AAA baseball where you come play a few games as a rehab assignment before you go to the big leagues.

gam7
02-16-2011, 04:59 PM
Jason Williams was on Adam Gold's show again this afternoon. After asking Adam what he thought Kyrie should do, Jason said he didn't think Kyrie should play again this year, that there was "no upside" to his doing so. He's already projected to go in the top three of the draft if he wants, so all he can do is hurt his position. This takes the position that it's all about Kyrie's "future career" and his earnings. Now please, don't get me wrong. I hope Kyrie, and all our players, have a long and prosperous career in the NBA or anywhere else they want after their college careers are over, but quite honestly, my primary interests don't align with Jason Williams', or for that matter with Kyrie's dad's.

I don't give a rat's patootie if any of them ever play one day in the NBA. I want them to play for Duke. I want them to play for MY TEAM. If it was "all about the money", let them take out the insurance policies to protect their futures against injuries - I would think that Nolan and Kyle did this. Maybe Kyrie has or can/will too. Certainly if he comes back for next season he will.

Yes, this is selfish. I care about them as people and as human beings, but as far as basketball players, I only care about them because they are Duke basketball players.

It really seems strange to me that Jason would say this, considering the decision he made to come back even though he was projected to be a top pick after his sophomore season. I'm not questioning whether he said it; I'm just surprised that he did.

Bluedog
02-16-2011, 05:06 PM
Jason Williams was on Adam Gold's show again this afternoon. After asking Adam what he thought Kyrie should do, Jason said he didn't think Kyrie should play again this year, that there was "no upside" to his doing so. He's already projected to go in the top three of the draft if he wants, so all he can do is hurt his position.

JWill said the same thing on the David Glenn show. I think it's fair for him to at least bring this up as a possible motivating factor, but I don't believe Kyrie will keep himself out of the game if he feels good to go. On the David Glenn show, he didn't say that's what he thinks Kyrie should do, just that it was something those around him might consider.

However, at the same time, I don't think Kyrie can really know for sure that he's 100% with absolute certainty for months. So, if his dad and other advisers (including coaches) tell him to only play if he's back to his old self with 100% certainty (which is what they've said), I don't think that's promising if you want to see Kyrie in a Duke uniform again. But who knows what goes on behind closed doors. I'm sure they're looking out for the best interests in Kyrie's future, and I'd hope that "future" includes playing for Duke if he can and not just optimizes his draft status. I don't think anybody can dispute that JWill is correct that not playing is best for Kyrie's draft status (since he's basically as high as you can go). Based on what we've seen from Kyrie's character, though, I'd imagine he's anxious to get out on the court and play again for Duke.

DukieinSoCal
02-16-2011, 05:12 PM
Jason Williams was on Adam Gold's show again this afternoon. After asking Adam what he thought Kyrie should do, Jason said he didn't think Kyrie should play again this year, that there was "no upside" to his doing so. He's already projected to go in the top three of the draft if he wants, so all he can do is hurt his position. This takes the position that it's all about Kyrie's "future career" and his earnings.


By this line of reasoning, every player in college should just stop playing once they feel they've reached their maximum draft status. Should Jimmer, Nolan, and every other player having all-american seasons stop playing right now since they could get hurt or lose potential $$/slots in the draft if they were to under-perform the rest of the way? This line of thinking is ridiculous unless Jason was talking about a less-than-100% healthy Kyrie. If Kyrie is healthy, he should play and help his team while soaking up his one and only college experience. I'm sure that's how he will approach it as well.

No worries, everyone. Kyrie is on the mend and I truly believe we haven't seen the last of him in a Duke uniform.

SupaDave
02-16-2011, 06:01 PM
I can see your point of view and I respect it, BUT I do disagree. As a Duke fan, part of what I take pride in is what our guys do after school, on or off the basketball court. I love seeing Grant, Elton, Mike Dunleavy, Luol, Dahntay, Carlos, JJ, etc, etc, etc have long prosperous careers. It makes me happy because you know these guys will be soldiers for Duke their entire lives.
I disagree with Jason under different sentiments. Look, the way I see it, Kyrie committed to play for Duke because he loved it here and he wants to win here. This isn't triple AAA baseball where you come play a few games as a rehab assignment before you go to the big leagues.

I agree. These guys are not just for our amusement. Coach K is molding men. Otherwise we wouldn't care that Laetner and Davis have turned into tycoons. Or that Shelden's child may be NBA ready at 14. That JJ has proved the critics wrong. That Reggie is the President's right hand man. That Alaa is directly related to the problems in Egypt. That Jon's eye is healed. And lastly that Tommy is the coach at freaking Harvard of all places. Indeed we do care about these guys - the second they commit as a matter of fact and even some that don't (hey there Mr. Livingston).