The Kyrie Irving Toe Rehab Vigil

[83bluedevil]

Can Kyrie's draft potential go anywhere but DOWN? I think that if it's up to Kyrie, he'll play again this year, cause he seems like that kind of kid. However, I'm wondering if the folks advising him (i.e. his dad who is no doubt talking to NBA scouts) are looking at the prospect of $$ in the bank and telling Kyrie that playing again just isn't worth the risk -- not the risk of re-injury, but the risk of not performing as well as he did in Nov and Dec and seeing his stock go south.

In other words, if it's ultimately about the NBA, why would he play when he's already top 2 or 3 in the draft? Maybe he's the type of player who doesn't think that way -- I sure hope so.

[Duke of Nashville]

Can Kyrie's draft potential go anywhere but DOWN? I think that if it's up to Kyrie, he'll play again this year, cause he seems like that kind of kid. However, I'm wondering if the folks advising him (i.e. his dad who is no doubt talking to NBA scouts) are looking at the prospect of $$ in the bank and telling Kyrie that playing again just isn't worth the risk -- not the risk of re-injury, but the risk of not performing as well as he did in Nov and Dec and seeing his stock go south.

In other words, if it's ultimately about the NBA, why would he play when he's already top 2 or 3 in the draft? Maybe he's the type of player who doesn't think that way -- I sure hope so.

How'd that work out for Deon Thompson?

[CDu]

How'd that work out for Deon Thompson?

I'm not sure I'm seeing the connection here. Deon Thompson was never a high-lottery pick.

As for Irving, I doubt the NBA scouts will penalize him for coming back and not playing quite as well as he did in November/December. Given that there isn't a lot of depth/competition at his position in this year's draft, I'm guessing they'll give him the benefit of the doubt in terms of getting back to form by next fall.

[Duke of Nashville]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the connection here. Deon Thompson was never a high-lottery pick.

As for Irving, I doubt the NBA scouts will penalize him for coming back and not playing quite as well as he did in November/December. Given that there isn't a lot of depth/competition at his position in this year's draft, I'm guessing they'll give him the benefit of the doubt in terms of getting back to form by next fall.

Ed Davis maybe? I'm going to quit while I'm ahead. GTHC

[scottcpa]

Any idea when the next MRI will be? When he got the cast off, they said 2-3 weeks which would put it by the end of this week. Hopefully a progress report will be issued early next week. I do hope he plays again this year and certainly hope he stays around for next year but he is such a great kid that I may have to start watching the NBA if he goes. He has represented himself, his family, and Duke exceptionally well.

[slower]

Oh, thanks. No top 3 protection? (ESPN confirms it has no restrictions.) Would have loved to see Kyrie mature under Sloan, as he might have if this trade happened a few weeks earlier. Also, a platoon with Harris for a season or two would be a great way to break in, although I'm sure the vet wouldn't see it that way.

I miss Kyrie cutting to the basket, treating the ball like a yo yo, and finishing with those crazy layups with a big in his face. Really hope we get a full season from him next year, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Have they eliminated the draft lottery next year? If not, then you really can't predict WHO will get the top pick, can you?

[millerecu]

I am no NBA fan nor a NBA draft analyst but I would think the NBA workouts would define where he goes in the draft more than what he may or may not do the rest of this season.

[JasonEvans]

Ed Davis maybe? I'm going to quit while I'm ahead. GTHC

Davis was projected by some as a top 3 pick after his freshman year. He went 13th after his soph season.

Josh McRoberts was projected as a top 10 pick after his freshman campaign and dropped all the way into the mid 2nd-round when he came out a year later.

There are other examples of kids who's draft stock takes a hit by staying an extra year.

But, for the most part, guys who come back seem to improve their draft stock. Nolan Smith, who toyed with leaving early and likely would have been a mid-2nd rounder if he had, has clearly improved his stock a tremendous amount. Blake Griffin was a late lottery guy as a freshman and went #1 after his awesome soph season. Tyler Hansbrough and Steph Curry greatly enhanced their stock with stellar seasons in 2009.

It is impossible to project this stuff. I will say that guards don't tend to be hurt by staying in school the way big men sometimes are. The cases of guys falling a lot from a disappointing season almost always seem to be athletic, but not highly skilled big men who showed flashes of amazing potential as freshmen but who seem unable to fully reach that potential as sophs or juniors.

All of this is to say that the risk to Kyrie in coming back would likely be fairly small.

-Jason "shoot-- I just allowed myself to get off topic in this thread... this is supposed to be about rehab not draft stuff" Evans

[loldevilz]

I personally think its a horrible idea that Kyrie wouldn't play because of his draft position, especially since Kyle and Nolan came back to win a championship.

I also disagree that he can only lose by playing. Firstly, he can demonstrate that he's healthy by coming back. Secondly, I think that if he leads his team to a championship he could really help himself. Look at Carmelo. He made a name for himself in college by doing just that.

I personally think that Kyrie realizes this and wouldn't punish his teammates to save a top 5 draft position. He's just too good a guy to do that.

[Class of '94]

Davis was projected by some as a top 3 pick after his freshman year. He went 13th after his soph season.

Josh McRoberts was projected as a top 10 pick after his freshman campaign and dropped all the way into the mid 2nd-round when he came out a year later.

There are other examples of kids who's draft stock takes a hit by staying an extra year.

But, for the most part, guys who come back seem to improve their draft stock. Nolan Smith, who toyed with leaving early and likely would have been a mid-2nd rounder if he had, has clearly improved his stock a tremendous amount. Blake Griffin was a late lottery guy as a freshman and went #1 after his awesome soph season. Tyler Hansbrough and Steph Curry greatly enhanced their stock with stellar seasons in 2009.

It is impossible to project this stuff. I will say that guards don't tend to be hurt by staying in school the way big men sometimes are. The cases of guys falling a lot from a disappointing season almost always seem to be athletic, but not highly skilled big men who showed flashes of amazing potential as freshmen but who seem unable to fully reach that potential as sophs or juniors.

All of this is to say that the risk to Kyrie in coming back would likely be fairly small.

-Jason "shoot-- I just allowed myself to get off topic in this thread... this is supposed to be about rehab not draft stuff" Evans

And in the cases of Davis and McRoberts, I think the decline in their respective drafts was tied to the success (or lack thereof) of their respective teams during their sophmore years. Davis got hurt and UNC was horrible as we all know; and Duke was a young team at the time and unfortunately McRoberts IMO didn't properly embrace his role as a leader on that team. I think if both teams had been more successful that year and both players had played integral roles in the successes, their draft stock might not have dropped. Kyrie is in a completely different situation. His team is currently #1 and doing very well and his integration back into the team will only make the team stronger IMO; and his draft stock will stay at the same level or increase as a result of his contributions to the team, especially if he could help lead the team to a national championship.

[CDu]

All of this is to say that the risk to Kyrie in coming back would likely be fairly small.

-Jason "shoot-- I just allowed myself to get off topic in this thread... this is supposed to be about rehab not draft stuff" Evans

Not only did you allow yourself to get off topic, but I think you missed the point of the poster's question (which I believe referred to Irving coming back THIS year). Apologies ahead of time if it was in fact ME who missed the point.

[uh_no]

Not to be bubble burstin again but kyrie is once again booted and not dressed

[ajgoodfella7]

Not to be bubble burstin again but kyrie is once again booted and not dressed

You have been bursting a lot of bubbles these past few games uh_no. :)

[Lord Ash]

Not to be bubble burstin again but kyrie is once again booted and not dressed

Hm... maybe I've missed it in this monster thread, but why would Kyrie be back in a boot, after so many folks have seen him in shoes? It isn't just so he can dramatically tear off the boot and run onto the court, is it?

[CDu]

Hm... maybe I've missed it in this monster thread, but why would Kyrie be back in a boot, after so many folks have seen him in shoes? It isn't just so he can dramatically tear off the boot and run onto the court, is it?

I believe that folks have confirmed that he has worn in a boot for every game since he got the cast off? So it's not that he's back in a boot, but rather he's continuing to wear the boot during games. Somebody feel free to correct me if I've misread the thread.

[ajgoodfella7]

I believe that folks have confirmed that he has worn in a boot for every game since he got the cast off? So it's not that he's back in a boot, but rather he's continuing to wear the boot during games. Somebody feel free to correct me if I've misread the thread.

He's supposedly worn it every game since he's had it off. I think the previous discussion was around page 21.

[uh_no]

Basketball activities are official!! Kyrie shot a layup at the encouragement of the students! Purest layup I've seen in my life

[BlueDevilBaby]

Wearing the boot during games is an excellent idea - we don't want him to get too excited on some awesome play and possibly reinjure himself. Also don't want any of those young men with monster feet stepping on it either.

[bl33dblu3]

I believe that folks have confirmed that he has worn in a boot for every game since he got the cast off? So it's not that he's back in a boot, but rather he's continuing to wear the boot during games. Somebody feel free to correct me if I've misread the thread.

It's definitely better to boot up for safety reasons. Unforseen jumping at great plays or someone crashing into him, during warm-ups. No set backs please.
I would like to see him rip it off at the UNC game, and begin warm ups.

[Namtilal]

Have they eliminated the draft lottery next year? If not, then you really can't predict WHO will get the top pick, can you?

Of course you can predict who will get the top pick. The odds are slanted greatly in favor of the worst few teams. If one or all of those three need a PG, then Kyrie's chances of going first increase dramatically. Conversely, the opposite holds true ;)

Being the number one overall has a definite cachet that is a factor in addition to the money.

[peplaw06]

I agree with him wearing the boot during games when who knows what could happen...

Can anyone confirm or deny whether he's wearing the boot to class?

[WVDUKEFAN]

Did you guys understand the announcers to say the rehab was going slow and it is UNLIKELY he will return this season?

[burns15]

Did you guys understand the announcers to say the rehab was going slow and it is UNLIKELY he will return this season?

I will listen to Mike Corey and others insider info on this board far before I will ever listen to a report by an ESPN broadcaster

[deezl]

Did you guys understand the announcers to say the rehab was going slow and it is UNLIKELY he will return this season?

I guess we'll have to wait until the ACC Tourney then :D

[moonpie23]

man.....it is so tough to watch him on the sideline......so INTO the game......so super-charged with happiness when kyle and nolan came off the floor......high fives, salutes then sat down with his arm over nolan's shoulder...

it's going to be so damn sad to see this kid go... :(

[Gthoma2a]

man.....it is so tough to watch him on the sideline......so INTO the game......so super-charged with happiness when kyle and nolan came off the floor......high fives, salutes then sat down with his arm over nolan's shoulder...

it's going to be so damn sad to see this kid go... :(

I was looking at pictures today and thinking that it felt like years ago. I miss seeing him slashing and making those plays that just make you feel like you are watching the beginnings of greatness.

[toooskies]

I think he'd play again just so he could win a championship, instead of sit on the bench for a championship. After all, it'll probably be his last chance to win one for a LONG time...

[throatybeard]

I'm tired of the comparisons to the Boozer injury. KI's is much worse. Boozer was out a grand total of six games (Carolina, ACCT, 1R, 2R). KI has been out for 2.5 months. This may work out nicely, but let's stop pretending there's some sort of equivalence.

[bjornolf]

My opinion is, if the toe were not healed, Kyrie would not be able to go through the workouts they showed on K's tv show Sunday. DBP is releasing another video sometime this week of Kyrie "working out" (or rehabbing if you will).

I, again, personal opinion, do not believe he could go through that if the toe had not progressed to the point where he is no longer experiencing pain or tenderness. Different meanings of "healed" I suppose. I just think if the injury were not "healed" they would have put the cast back on or performed surgery. Those were the points I were attempting to make.

Okay, I can agree with the first part there. I didn't see the workouts. If he was running and cutting in a normal shoe, then it's probably pretty well healed.

As for pain or tenderness, he's probably still experiencing those. Even if it is healed, being in a cast for so long will cause serious stiffness and swelling when you start to use it again. Trust me, rehab is often more painful than the original injury. They don't call therapists torturers for nothing. But yes, I see your point. Like I said, they might start rehab well before he's ready to return. It all depends on the injury and how they've decided to treat it. Just because it's not "fully" healed and he's not ready to return doesn't necessarily mean he'd still need the cast or surgery. Sometimes you reach a point where the cast no longer aids healing and can even impair it, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's ready to play a competitive game of basketball. A "real" game involves moving parts (other players) that cause reactions by a player and thus dangers to the body that no rehab can predict. The problem is figuring out when his toe can handle these.

Like I said, I get your point though. Sorry I misunderstood. I certainly hope you're right. It'd be great to see him back and 100% again this season.

[Devil-In-Law]

Buried in the notes portion of the DBR post-game analysis of the Temple game was this intiguing item:

"…during the pregame, Kyrie Irving excited the crowd when he took a layup…he made it of course…"

After reading the above this morning, I immediately came to the Toe Vigil thread here hoping to find some discussion about the implications of Kyrie taking a layup during warm-ups. The absence of any mention of the incident spurred a relatively rare post from me. Did any of you see the layup? Not sure in what context the shot was taken; however, I cannot help but think that it bodes well for a likely return this season, sooner rather than later, by Kyrie. Someone who actually witnessed the shot could give a lot more insight. Did he dribble in and actually jump while shooting? In any event, I think it is good news.

Devil-In-Law
(Blue Devil by Marriage)
Asheville, NC/Ft. Myers, FL

[PADukeMom]

Whatever Kyrie decides I am sure is in his best interests. I will always think of him as a Dukie & wish him much success.

If it is a championship he wants in the short term his best chance of that is staying in Durham & continuing his education under the best coach out there. Don't see a championship happening anytime soon in Cleveland.

Love ya Kyrie & get healthy for your future.

[_Gary]

Without some real detail about "the layup" (just putting those words in quotes is kinda funny) I doubt we can come to any informed opinion about where Kyrie is in his rehab. Now, when I hear about Kyrie taking a practice dunk... :D

[PADukeMom]

Without some real detail about "the layup" (just putting those words in quotes is kinda funny) I doubt we can come to any informed opinion about where Kyrie is in his rehab. Now, when I hear about Kyrie taking a practice dunk... :D

Oh Lordy...I don't need to see Kyrie dunking & risking a re-injury. I would be happy with his normal point guardy self.

[gcashwell]

According to the Twitterverse, the latesy KI rehab video from Dukeblueplanet should be up this weekend sometime.

[_Gary]

Oh Lordy...I don't need to see Kyrie dunking & risking a re-injury. I would be happy with his normal point guardy self.

I certainly wasn't even thinking about Kyrie doing something that might risk re-injury. I was simply saying that because players can conceivably walk out on the floor and shoot a layup with one foot, but they certainly can't go out on the floor and dunk a basketball with one foot. But I'd never, ever want him to do something that would put his future health in doubt.

[uh_no]

The absence of any mention of the incident spurred a relatively rare post from me. Did any of you see the layup? Not sure in what context the shot was taken; however, I cannot help but think that it bodes well for a likely return this season, sooner rather than later, by Kyrie. Someone who actually witnessed the shot could give a lot more insight. Did he dribble in and actually jump while shooting? In any event, I think it is good news.



http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24187-The-Kyrie-Irving-Toe-Rehab-Vigil&p=478021#post478021

i was about 10' away...he was sitting in one of the chairs in the endline and dribbling a ball beneath his legs and stood up, and the crowd was all chanting shoot it, so he walked over and just laid it in....no hassle...no dribbling, no breaking someones ankles with a spin move before throwing down a crazy reverse shot.....no jump dude......he was wearing his boot....he could have just as well been in a wheel chair and taken that layup

[_Gary]

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24187-The-Kyrie-Irving-Toe-Rehab-Vigil&p=478021#post478021

i was about 10' away...he was sitting in one of the chairs in the endline and dribbling a ball beneath his legs and stood up, and the crowd was all chanting shoot it, so he walked over and just laid it in....no hassle...no dribbling, no breaking someones ankles with a spin move before throwing down a crazy reverse shot.....no jump dude......he was wearing his boot....he could have just as well been in a wheel chair and taken that layup

And hence my point about a dunk vs a layup. Just sayin'. :D

[duke1983]

Article on Kyrie Irving in the Winston Salem journal

http://www2.journalnow.com/sports/2011/feb/25/wssport01-lenox-rawlings-column-ar-811887/

Again, nothing concrete but a positive sign.

[sagegrouse]

Article on Kyrie Irving in the Winston Salem journal

http://www2.journalnow.com/sports/2011/feb/25/wssport01-lenox-rawlings-column-ar-811887/

Again, nothing concrete but a positive sign.

Headline in the W-S Journal --

'Don't be surprised if Duke's Irving plays soon'

Good find, Duke1983.

sagegrouse

[PADukeMom]

Headline in the W-S Journal --

'Don't be surprised if Duke's Irving plays soon'

Good find, Duke1983.

sagegrouse

One can only wish...sigh! I thought when I clicked on the link that I was going to read in small print "this fall in Cleveland".

On a side note; in our local newpaper there is an advice column from a doctor & the subject of "turf toe" was raised. This doctor claimed that this type of injury will heal in 3-4 WEEKS. Tell that to the Duke faithful who have been waiting for 3 months.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Headline in the W-S Journal --

'Don't be surprised if Duke's Irving plays soon'

Good find, Duke1983.

sagegrouse
I won't be surprised, I've gone into "overtime" on my predictions of last week's return. Recovery and rehab is an inexact science, and obviously I was being "a bit" overly aggressive in my time line and the powers that be are rightly not so. If it turns out that I was only one to two weeks early, I'll be very happy that my "scenario" was so close to correct. When he does return to Duke's line up, we can all celebrate. :cool:

[UrinalCake]

I like the headline, but the article doesn't have anything to support its claim other than what we've already seen - basically Irving's posts on twitter. I'd like to see some more concrete evidence before I believe that a return is imminent.

The article did say that Irving "evidently wants to play if at all possible." That seems to put to rest the notion of him keeping himself out in order to protect his draft stock, although again the word "evidently" makes me think this is merely the author's opinion.

[MulletMan]

One can only wish...sigh! I thought when I clicked on the link that I was going to read in small print "this fall in Cleveland".

On a side note; in our local newpaper there is an advice column from a doctor & the subject of "turf toe" was raised. This doctor claimed that this type of injury will heal in 3-4 WEEKS. Tell that to the Duke faithful who have been waiting for 3 months.

Holy cripes... Kyrie Irving does not and did not have turf toe. Show me one place where anyone associated directly with Duke Men's Basketball said "Kyrie has turf toe."

[David Bunkley]

Once again, this is all purely speculative. Until we see Kyrie in uniform, I am going to assume that he will miss the entire season (that way when he returns against UNC, I'll be overly excited and we can watch Ole Roy poop his pants).

[mkline09]

Holy cripes... Kyrie Irving does not and did not have turf toe. Show me one place where anyone associated directly with Duke Men's Basketball said "Kyrie has turf toe."

You are right. While widely presumed by media outlets and some fans, the injury was discribed as something like turf toe but never offically diagnosed as such. It is really a unique injury in that it was never given an official name. And because of the uniqueness of it no time frame has ever been given which is what the coaches have been saying for the bulk of the season.

[UrinalCake]

I don't have a direct link but I remember Chris Collins saying that it was a unique injury that doesn't have an exact diagnosis, but that the closest way to describe it is that it's similar to turf toe but more severe. I can see how there might be some confusion.

[Chris Randolph]

I just watched some Kyrie highlights through the Michigan St game.... Wow, he is ridiculous good. I knew watching him live how good he was but when I watch that video I can't help but think of him as the NPOY and we are GREAT right now. Oh what might have been....

It'd be great just to get to see him contribute on the floor before the season ends, even if it is 15 minutes a game

[Cicero]

I don't have a direct link but I remember Chris Collins saying that it was a unique injury that doesn't have an exact diagnosis, but that the closest way to describe it is that it's similar to turf toe but more severe. I can see how there might be some confusion.

Quoted here (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Duke-assistant-sheds-light-on-the-status-of-Kyri?urn=ncaab-304320). "It's a form of turf toe but it's a little more severe than that."

[Bluedevil114]

I am now ready for a bashing for this post.

I was pushing for Thornton to go to the starting line-up back when we beat Maryland the first time in Cameron. Then really pushed it when we lost to FSU and in preparation for the UVA game at Cameron. But it did not happen.

I think Coach K has been a little more op"toe"mistic since the cast has come off of Kyrie in that each game Tyler's minutes and play in the big spots has been increasing. Yes many of you will say that is because Andre Dawkins defense, dribbling ability and attitute/confidence is the reason for this. Tyler definitely brings energy and hustle when he is on the floor.

I believe by playing Tyler at the point and putting Nolan Smith back at his natural position it allows for Duke to transition back to Kyrie Irving running the point then to totally reconstruct their offense upon his possible return.

I think if Coach K did not believe there was a really good chance that Kyrie was coming back then he would run more with Nolan at the point and find ways to get Andre more minutes.

I know, I know.......Tyler gives us more defensive pressure when he is in the game. Tyler brings what Kyrie does minus the ridiculous speed. I saw the up and under when he hit the lane against Temple. I think this adds to my point more than take away from it. Kyrie and Tyler have more in common then we give them credit for and I think that is what Coach K has determined and really believe they have put the pressure on Thornton to perform so when Kyrie returns on Wednesday it will be seemless.

Go Duke!!

[Duke: A Dynasty]

I am now ready for a bashing for this post.

I was pushing for Thornton to go to the starting line-up back when we beat Maryland the first time in Cameron. Then really pushed it when we lost to FSU and in preparation for the UVA game at Cameron. But it did not happen.

I think Coach K has been a little more op"toe"mistic since the cast has come off of Kyrie in that each game Tyler's minutes and play in the big spots has been increasing. Yes many of you will say that is because Andre Dawkins defense, dribbling ability and attitute/confidence is the reason for this. Tyler definitely brings energy and hustle when he is on the floor.

I believe by playing Tyler at the point and putting Nolan Smith back at his natural position it allows for Duke to transition back to Kyrie Irving running the point then to totally reconstruct their offense upon his possible return.

I think if Coach K did not believe there was a really good chance that Kyrie was coming back then he would run more with Nolan at the point and find ways to get Andre more minutes.

I know, I know.......Tyler gives us more defensive pressure when he is in the game. Tyler brings what Kyrie does minus the ridiculous speed. I saw the up and under when he hit the lane against Temple. I think this adds to my point more than take away from it. Kyrie and Tyler have more in common then we give them credit for and I think that is what Coach K has determined and really believe they have put the pressure on Thornton to perform so when Kyrie returns on Wednesday it will be seemless.

Go Duke!!

NO bashing here. I liked it, a very nice theory indeed and I am hoping you are right. Would be a great move by K imo.

[slower]

Tyler brings what Kyrie does minus the ridiculous speed. I saw the up and under when he hit the lane against Temple. I think this adds to my point more than take away from it. Kyrie and Tyler have more in common then we give them credit for and I think that is what Coach K has determined and really believe they have put the pressure on Thornton to perform so when Kyrie returns on Wednesday it will be seemless.

Go Duke!!

My sense is that there's more than just the ridiculous speed that separates them. But in the same vein, I bring exactly what Usain Bolt does - minus, you know... :)

[Jholt915]

My sense is that there's more than just the ridiculous speed that separates them. But in the same vein, I bring exactly what Usain Bolt does - minus, you know... :)

You're right there. Irving is a much better scorer than Thornton is. Irving is just so dynamic that Duke's chances of a NC would dramatically increase if he could return to the level of play he had pre toe injury. That's why he might be the # 1 pick. Thornton could be more accurately compared with Wojo, and there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

[MarkD83]

I just watched some Kyrie highlights through the Michigan St game.... Wow, he is ridiculous good. I knew watching him live how good he was but when I watch that video I can't help but think of him as the NPOY and we are GREAT right now. Oh what might have been....

It'd be great just to get to see him contribute on the floor before the season ends, even if it is 15 minutes a game

Duke could have beaten UNC, been poised to go undefeated at home, been in first place in the ACC, been number one in the polls, been poised to get the top number one seed in the NCAAT......wait Duke is all of those things.

Not picking on you just making sure you enjoy where Duke is right now. In retrospect I think the only thing that might be different from a team perspective is that we would have beaten FSU. Duke was so flat against St. John's and St. John's played so well that even Kyrie may not have helped.

Seeing the glass 3/4 full, the way things have transpired may even work out better for Duke. Right now if you are scouting Duke you watch the FSU and St. John's games to see how to beat this Duke team. If Kyrie comes back opposing teams have no tapes to watch to determine how to beat Duke.

[oldnavy]

I am now ready for a bashing for this post.

I was pushing for Thornton to go to the starting line-up back when we beat Maryland the first time in Cameron. Then really pushed it when we lost to FSU and in preparation for the UVA game at Cameron. But it did not happen.

I think Coach K has been a little more op"toe"mistic since the cast has come off of Kyrie in that each game Tyler's minutes and play in the big spots has been increasing. Yes many of you will say that is because Andre Dawkins defense, dribbling ability and attitute/confidence is the reason for this. Tyler definitely brings energy and hustle when he is on the floor.

I believe by playing Tyler at the point and putting Nolan Smith back at his natural position it allows for Duke to transition back to Kyrie Irving running the point then to totally reconstruct their offense upon his possible return.

I think if Coach K did not believe there was a really good chance that Kyrie was coming back then he would run more with Nolan at the point and find ways to get Andre more minutes.

I know, I know.......Tyler gives us more defensive pressure when he is in the game. Tyler brings what Kyrie does minus the ridiculous speed. I saw the up and under when he hit the lane against Temple. I think this adds to my point more than take away from it. Kyrie and Tyler have more in common then we give them credit for and I think that is what Coach K has determined and really believe they have put the pressure on Thornton to perform so when Kyrie returns on Wednesday it will be seemless.

Go Duke!!

I like the post, it does make sense. I REALLY like Tyler and what he does when he is on the court. I am very encouraged for the future knowing that TT is most likely going to be a 4 year player who seems to get better each game.... He doesn't bring the same level of play as KI, but who does??? He is of the same style and I agree with the OP that K may be doing this inorder to minimize the teams adjustment to when Kyrie does come back... against UNC I hope, but more likely the ACCT.

[slower]

I like the post, it does make sense. I REALLY like Tyler and what he does when he is on the court. I am very encouraged for the future knowing that TT is most likely going to be a 4 year player who seems to get better each game.... He doesn't bring the same level of play as KI, but who does??? He is of the same style and I agree with the OP that K may be doing this inorder to minimize the teams adjustment to when Kyrie does come back... against UNC I hope, but more likely the ACCT.

I wasn't trying to bash Tyler - I love the guy. But I think that Kyrie is more than just a faster Tyler - obviously he's a rare talent. As a strategic move, you may be correct that running Tyler at point is the best way to transition back to Kyrie.

Tyler has been a pleasant surprise overall. Maybe better than we thought offensively, and an excellent defensive disruptor. Unfortunately, he's not the "Kendall Marshall stopper". Face it - for all of the mocking that Marshall received on this board, he's better than we thought. Still, I think Kyrie shuts Marshall down, given the chance.

[Jarhead]

After re-watching last Sunday's Inside Basketball with Coach Mike Krzyzewski I feel somewhat better about Kyrie's potential return to the court this season. That show was almost entirely about Kyrie and his rehab program. It started out with some amazing footage of him scoring long and short, a pass or two, and THE injury. Then it shifted to the removal of the cast with Kyrie clearly interested in the procedure. That was followed by the trainers administering some pretty intense massage and joint manipulation.

What interested me most was the array of exercises the trainers were throwing at him, literally. From two directions they were throwing those huge weighted balls to him and he was throwing them back, in rapid succession, from two directions. That was followed with a dribbling workout in which one trainer was holding him back with an elastic strap while the other was impeding his progress with what looked like blocking pads.

It seemed as though Kyrie was giving them more than they were giving him. They couldn't hold him back. The pressure they were applying had no effect on his dribbling, either. He could have been posting up against Elton, and winning. The videos were shot at least two weeks ago, I would guess. I now feel that I was watching a young man that is determined to get back on the court this season. All due caution should be expected, though.

[uh_no]

But in the same vein, I bring exactly what Usain Bolt does - minus, you know... :)

you must mean the crazy personality right?

[Kedsy]

I believe by playing Tyler at the point and putting Nolan Smith back at his natural position it allows for Duke to transition back to Kyrie Irving running the point then to totally reconstruct their offense upon his possible return.

I think if Coach K did not believe there was a really good chance that Kyrie was coming back then he would run more with Nolan at the point and find ways to get Andre more minutes.

Please do not view this as bashing, but I don't think your supposition is true. First of all, Tyler did start three games but then approximately the time Kyrie's cast came off, Tyler went back to the bench and his minutes have been inconsistent (14/5/24/11 in his past four games). I haven't fully analyzed it, but I believe the majority of Tyler's minutes in the past four games (since he went back to the bench) have come when Nolan is off the floor (and if it isn't a majority then it's not much less than 50/50). Not only that, but in the past three games Tyler and Nolan have been on the floor together 10 times, and 8 of those 10 times were in small three-guard lineups (with Seth as the third guard). It seems to me if K were ramping up for Kyrie to come in alongside Nolan it would happen more with the traditional "Kyle at the 3" lineup that we play most of the time.


Tyler brings what Kyrie does minus the ridiculous speed.

You are seeing something completely different than what I am seeing. Tyler is a good guard, but I don't see any similarities at all between his game and Kyrie's game. He doesn't penetrate very much and when he does he rarely dishes; he's not a particularly confident long-range shooter; his pace is much slower; he doesn't push the ball that much after a defensive rebound; in the half-court he seems to look east-west first before he looks north-south; and his defensive style is based more on toughness than on quickness. Don't get me wrong, I think Tyler brings a lot to the game, but I don't think he brings much of anything that Kyrie brings.

And more importantly I don't think his increase in playing time has anything to do with Kyrie.

[uh_no]

And more importantly I don't think his increase in playing time has anything to do with Kyrie.

K addressed this a little bit, part of it was tyler needed to prepare himself for the role...he had to lose a bunch of weight and learn a lot about the position before he could step into the role that he now occupies....that and getting waxed by st johns (inciting a change) would probably be the reasons

[OZZIE4DUKE]

After re-watching last Sunday's Inside Basketball with Coach Mike Krzyzewski I feel somewhat better about Kyrie's potential return to the court this season. That show was almost entirely about Kyrie and his rehab program. It started out with some amazing footage of him scoring long and short, a pass or two, and THE injury. Then it shifted to the removal of the cast with Kyrie clearly interested in the procedure. That was followed by the trainers administering some pretty intense massage and joint manipulation.

What interested me most was the array of exercises the trainers were throwing at him, literally. From two directions they were throwing those huge weighted balls to him and he was throwing them back, in rapid succession, from two directions. That was followed with a dribbling workout in which one trainer was holding him back with an elastic strap while the other was impeding his progress with what looked like blocking pads.

It seemed as though Kyrie was giving them more than they were giving him. They couldn't hold him back. The pressure they were applying had no effect on his dribbling, either. He could have been posting up against Elton, and winning. The videos were shot at least two weeks ago, I would guess. I now feel that I was watching a young man that is determined to get back on the court this season. All due caution should be expected, though.
My guess is that the videos were shot the day or two before it aired last Sunday. No way he was doing that almost two weeks ago from today. If he had been, he'd have been playing by now.

I'm looking forward to see the new Duke Blue Planet video that was shot last Monday and is supposed to be available this weekend.http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

[uh_no]

I'm looking forward to see the new Duke Blue Planet video that was shot last Monday and is supposed to be available this weekend.

Kyrie announced this video a week ago almost now....I'm guessing there is no video, and the 'shots of his rehab' is really him playing tonight :)

[Mike Corey]

I believe the video is being released tomorrow.

[Andre Buckner Fan]

I believe the video is being released tomorrow.

I'm beginning to think it will be released April First! Then Kyrie will say:

"April Fools! My toe was never hurt at all!"

[sdotbarbee]

I believe the video is being released tomorrow.

Is it the same footage that was on Inside Basketball with Duke's Coach K?

[Newton_14]

Is it the same footage that was on Inside Basketball with Duke's Coach K?

No. This video was shot after the airing of last week's Coach K show.

[Bluedevil114]

Many on this board have said the worry they have with Kyrie on the bench and with all the jumping up and down of the guys on the bench and the possible injury that could happen. I am more worried about teams that storm the court and the fans doing something stupid to Kyrie.

Storming of the court should be illegal. It is in every other sport why do they allow it?

[WiJoe]

Many on this board have said the worry they have with Kyrie on the bench and with all the jumping up and down of the guys on the bench and the possible injury that could happen. I am more worried about teams that storm the court and the fans doing something stupid to Kyrie.

Storming of the court should be illegal. It is in every other sport why do they allow it?

You sound like ol' roy, dadgummit

[hudlow]

Many on this board have said the worry they have with Kyrie on the bench and with all the jumping up and down of the guys on the bench and the possible injury that could happen. I am more worried about teams that storm the court and the fans doing something stupid to Kyrie.

Storming of the court should be illegal. It is in every other sport why do they allow it?

If it was allowed, it wouldn't be called storming the court.

[uh_no]

If it was allowed, it wouldn't be called storming the court.

Its very difficult for a few security guys to hold out a thousand or so nutso fans....and it's just not economically viable to hire enough security to do the job....seeing as court stormings happen (relatively) rarely

[DukeGirl4ever]

Back to the discussion....:p

I'm hoping, praying, doing voodoo mind tricks with the hope Kyrie will return on Wednesday. I was very optoemistic about his return over the past two weeks, but after last night, I'm thinking it may not happen. Where's Ozzie and his positivity?

I know I'm down after last night's game, but I keep telling myself, we have won 26 games and lost 3....and played 20+ games without the potential #1 draft pick. I say we're darn good based on that fact.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I just saw the episode on Kyrie and his rehab. Evidently there is or soon will be something on Duke Blue Planet.

I don't think the Duke coaching staff would allow this unless Kyrie was coming back soon.

SoCal

[Mike Corey]

It'll be up tonight.

[HDB]

Now this sounds like something to get excited about (especially on the heels of a gut wrenching loss)!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Back to the discussion....:p

I'm hoping, praying, doing voodoo mind tricks with the hope Kyrie will return on Wednesday. I was very optoemistic about his return over the past two weeks, but after last night, I'm thinking it may not happen. Where's Ozzie and his positivity?

I know I'm down after last night's game, but I keep telling myself, we have won 26 games and lost 3....and played 20+ games without the potential #1 draft pick. I say we're darn good based on that fact.


It'll be up tonight.
I'm still here, DukeGirl4ever, waiting impatiently for the new rehab video - the more we see him doing LAST MONDAY when it was shot, the more likely his return is. Personally, I think we'll see Kyrie make a game appearance on Wednesday night. :cool: It might happen at the first (or second) media time out, or perhaps in deference to the seniors, it might happen in the second half. But I think it will happen.

[tylervinyard]

I kinda doubt that Kyrie would come back on Senior Night. It would take too much attention away from Kyle and Nolan. Either UNC or ACC tourney is more likely. Probably ACC tourney.

[uh_no]

I'm still here, DukeGirl4ever, waiting impatiently for the new rehab video - the more we see him doing LAST MONDAY when it was shot, the more likely his return is. Personally, I think we'll see Kyrie make a game appearance on Wednesday night. :cool: It might happen at the first (or second) media time out, or perhaps in deference to the seniors, it might happen in the second half. But I think it will happen.

This game has been my guess for some time now. I think the video tonight will let us know....given my hear-say source says acc tournament, we're only 1 week off....so (like kevin garnett) anything is possible!

[ns7]

This game has been my guess for some time now. I think the video tonight will let us know....given my hear-say source says acc tournament, we're only 1 week off....so (like kevin garnett) anything is possible!

First game of the ACC tournament would be okay. If so, it becomes important for Duke to be able to get to the final so Kyrie could get in three games before the NCAAs. That plus a 15/16 seed game in the first round of the NCAAs would give him 4 games before we really need him integrated into the team.

However, I'd love to see him play at Chapel Hill and have him, Nolan, and Kyle all put up superb efforts.

[timmy c]

Geez, I might have to make DukeBluePlanet my home page. I'm tired of refreshing!

[DukeGirl4ever]

I'm still here, DukeGirl4ever, waiting impatiently for the new rehab video - the more we see him doing LAST MONDAY when it was shot, the more likely his return is. Personally, I think we'll see Kyrie make a game appearance on Wednesday night. :cool: It might happen at the first (or second) media time out, or perhaps in deference to the seniors, it might happen in the second half. But I think it will happen.

I love that OPTOEMISM!
I'm just throwing this out there, just to see what people think, so please don't accept this as my thinking...
Do you think the coaching staff would decide to bring him back for Wednesday's game because we lost last night? That is, IF he is healthy, of course. Maybe they were aiming for ACC tourney, but given the loss, do you think that may play a factor?

[Gthoma2a]

Geez, I might have to make DukeBluePlanet my home page. I'm tired of refreshing!

I am with you, the wait is killing me!

[gam7]

I love that OPTOEMISM!
I'm just throwing this out there, just to see what people think, so please don't accept this as my thinking...
Do you think the coaching staff would decide to bring him back for Wednesday's game because we lost last night? That is, IF he is heathy, of course. Maybe they were aiming for ACC tourney, but given the loss, do you think that may play a factor?

No. The loss is irrelevant with respect to the decision as to when he comes back. When he is ready to play, he'll be back. Whether we win or lose while he's out won't play into that decision.

[OldPhiKap]

I am with you, the wait is killing me!

"The waiting is the hardest part
Every day you see one more card
You take it on faith, you take it to the heart
The waiting is the hardest part."

-- Tom Petty

[CDu]

I love that OPTOEMISM!
I'm just throwing this out there, just to see what people think, so please don't accept this as my thinking...
Do you think the coaching staff would decide to bring him back for Wednesday's game because we lost last night? That is, IF he is healthy, of course. Maybe they were aiming for ACC tourney, but given the loss, do you think that may play a factor?

Everyone involved has said that they will do what's best for Irving long-term and won't jeopardize his long-term future just for short-term wins. He'll play when he's healthy enough to play and not be at an increased risk of re-injury. The loss yesterday is irrelevant.

If he's healthy enough to play Wednesday, he'll play Wednesday. If not, he won't. Saturday's loss has no impact on either of the previous two statements.

[DukeGirl4ever]

Everyone involved has said that they will do what's best for Irving long-term and won't jeopardize his long-term future just for short-term wins. He'll play when he's healthy enough to play and not be at an increased risk of re-injury. The loss yesterday is irrelevant.

If he's healthy enough to play Wednesday, he'll play Wednesday. If not, he won't. Saturday's loss has no impact on either of the previous two statements.

I agree with you 100%. But, there is a little thought in the back of my head that wonders if they have been resting him just to be safe. Last night's game exposed some weaknesses in being able to run an effective offense at the end of the game. Kyrie would have definitely helped. I know our coaching staff is phenomenal and would do only what is in Kyrie's best interest. I was just thinking out loud even though I don't really agree with my thoughts (my OCD is getting the best me....as you can tell, it's almost March and my basketball obsession is at its all-time high)! :p Anything and everything that can be discussed about Duke is going through my brain!

[Kedsy]

Last night's game exposed some weaknesses in being able to run an effective offense at the end of the game. Kyrie would have definitely helped.

We clearly did not play our best in the closing minutes against Va Tech, but I do not think any weaknesses were "exposed." Frankly, I don't understand why people use the word "exposed" every time a team performs below expectations in a particular game. I do agree, however, Kyrie may have helped, if for no other reason than he can get to the hoop any time he wants to, and in a tight game easy baskets are at a premium.

But just because we might have won the game if Kyrie had played doesn't seem to me to be a justification for playing him when we otherwise wouldn't have played him. That particular skill of Kyrie's will be at our disposal when he's ready and not before. If it comes before the Sweet 16, personally I'll be thrilled.

[MChambers]

I love that OPTOEMISM!
I'm just throwing this out there, just to see what people think, so please don't accept this as my thinking...
Do you think the coaching staff would decide to bring him back for Wednesday's game because we lost last night? That is, IF he is healthy, of course. Maybe they were aiming for ACC tourney, but given the loss, do you think that may play a factor?
I'm firmly convinced that he'll be back when he's ready medically, and that's the only factor.

[WVDUKEFAN]

We clearly did not play our best in the closing minutes against Va Tech, but I do not think any weaknesses were "exposed." Frankly, I don't understand why people use the word "exposed" every time a team performs below expectations in a particular game. I do agree, however, Kyrie may have helped, if for no other reason than he can get to the hoop any time he wants to, and in a tight game easy baskets are at a premium.

But just because we might have won the game if Kyrie had played doesn't seem to me to be a justification for playing him when we otherwise wouldn't have played him. That particular skill of Kyrie's will be at our disposal when he's ready and not before. If it comes before the Sweet 16, personally I'll be thrilled.

We broke down mentally as much as anything last night. Ryan K was cold and Singler didn't play on the offensive end like Singler typically can and does. Curry couldn't have had a worse nite if he would have tried. The injury was a real issue, no doubt, but I also have to believe Kyrie learned a lot on the bench watching the flow of the game. We know he could play the physical part of the game, but I truly believe he gained mentally from it.

[DukeGirl4ever]

We clearly did not play our best in the closing minutes against Va Tech, but I do not think any weaknesses were "exposed." Frankly, I don't understand why people use the word "exposed" every time a team performs below expectations in a particular game. I do agree, however, Kyrie may have helped, if for no other reason than he can get to the hoop any time he wants to, and in a tight game easy baskets are at a premium.

But just because we might have won the game if Kyrie had played doesn't seem to me to be a justification for playing him when we otherwise wouldn't have played him. That particular skill of Kyrie's will be at our disposal when he's ready and not before. If it comes before the Sweet 16, personally I'll be thrilled.

Just thinking out loud, Kedsy, just thinking out loud! This is the madness that occurs in my brain after a loss, hence the reason I no longer coach. I am not trying to be a "wanker".
If the term exposed doesn't work for you, what do you suggest? I didn't graduate from Duke so my vocab isn't up to par (and please know I'm kidding with you).

I think in all 3 of our losses, we had some aspects of our game that we haven't executed like we should. So, I guess when I say exposed, what I really mean is we didn't execute...but in a sense that does show other teams what they can do to beat us which leads me back to that word exposed.

[Kedsy]

I think in all 3 of our losses, we had some aspects of our game that we haven't executed like we should. So, I guess when I say exposed, what I really mean is we didn't execute...but in a sense that does show other teams what they can do to beat us which leads me back to that word exposed.

I wasn't intending to be harsh. A lot of people use "exposed" as code for "the team can easily be beaten," and I think the term is way overused and is inappropriate in describing any of Duke's games this season.

Personally I didn't notice anything in last night's game that would show other teams how to beat us, other than possibly getting a lead against us with two minutes to play, and that's sort of self-evident. If you did see something, then maybe I'm wrong. What did Va Tech do that other teams could learn from?

[DukeGirl4ever]

I wasn't intending to be harsh. A lot of people use "exposed" as code for "the team can easily be beaten," and I think the term is way overused and is inappropriate in describing any of Duke's games this season.

Personally I didn't notice anything in last night's game that would show other teams how to beat us, other than possibly getting a lead against us with two minutes to play, and that's sort of self-evident. If you did see something, then maybe I'm wrong. What did Va Tech do that other teams could learn from?

I know you weren't, Kedsy! I really like discussing this kind of stuff, but often times the computer takes away from the tongue and cheek reactions that I have!

Good question about what VA tech did that other teams could learn from. That's something I'll have to think about. But, at face value, I think their 2-3 zone at the end was key and not just because we weren't hitting our shots. (Did you see Kyle huffing and puffing at the end of the game when VT was at the line? That boy was SPENT! No wonder he couldn't find the rim.) They extended the 2-3 zone so it was aggressive. Their bigs stepped up to the perimeter and crowded the foul line extended area because they knew we weren't going to look down low. Nolan had difficulty attacking it because of the pressure up top. Some teams have a tendency to play relaxed in the zone....VT was aggressive.

I can't remember because I was shaking like a leaf, but did we have anyone at the high post, or flash high? Ryan wasn't hitting his shots, but he could have made some good passes out of the high post to get the defense out of position.

[MChambers]

I know you weren't, Kedsy! I really like discussing this kind of stuff, but often times the computer takes away from the tongue and cheek reactions that I have!

Good question about what VA tech did that other teams could learn from. That's something I'll have to think about. But, at face value, I think their 2-3 zone at the end was key and not just because we weren't hitting our shots. (Did you see Kyle huffing and puffing at the end of the game when VT was at the line? That boy was SPENT! No wonder he couldn't find the rim.) They extended the 2-3 zone so it was aggressive. Their bigs stepped up to the perimeter and crowded the foul line extended area because they knew we weren't going to look down low. Nolan had difficulty attacking it because of the pressure up top. Some teams have a tendency to play relaxed in the zone....VT was aggressive.

I can't remember because I was shaking like a leaf, but did we have anyone at the high post, or flash high? Ryan wasn't hitting his shots, but he could have made some good passes out of the high post to get the defense out of position.

Did Ryan even try a jumper from the free throw line? I can't remember a single one.

[ACniner]

There are just certain games that Duke goes into each season that I think are very dangerous. Florida State was one I knew would be rough, and this was another. Anytime you go on the road with a desperate team needing a quality win awaits you, and you have that number 1 beside your name....it's going to be a dog fight. I personally don't feel V Tech put together a game plan that other teams can learn from. It was an electric, hostile environment where Duke just didn't execute down the stretch.

[Newton_14]

Time out folks.:) Get back on topic please.:):)

Let's stay on the condition of the "Toe"! I have not checked DBP yet but the video is supposed to be out tonight. Here's to hoping we see the "Toe" blowing past a helpless defender on the court soon!!

[dukebluesincebirth]

The DBP Twitter acctount says the video is nothing earth shattering but very informative about the rehab process, and will "most likely" be out late tonight because several people have to see it before it comes out. These people are very busy according to Duke Blue Planet. We can only hope...

[DukeGirl4ever]

Time out folks.:) Get back on topic please.:):)

Let's stay on the condition of the "Toe"! I have not checked DBP yet but the video is supposed to be out tonight. Here's to hoping we see the "Toe" blowing past a helpless defender on the court soon!!


: - ) That little sidebar was a result of a Kyrie question. It was a nice little distraction while we sit and wait...and wait...and wait to hear any TOE news. I hope we see a Wed. return!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The DBP Twitter acctount says the video is nothing earth shattering but very informative about the rehab process, and will "most likely" be out late tonight because several people have to see it before it comes out. These people are very busy according to Duke Blue Planet. We can only hope...
Patience is not a virtue I am blessed with an abundance of...

I wish they would hurry the heck up and post it!

[Troublemaker]

Realistically neither the Clemson game nor the UNC game are in play for his return.

You'd have to think we'd hear about him practicing full-speed for at least a week before he plays in a game, and unless I've missed something, we haven't heard that yet.

So, same as always. Status quo is still cautious optimism, but don't expect too much, and it's very possible KI is done for this season.

I think Duke has adjusted well without him and will be a very tough out regardless.

[Bluedog]

Realistically neither the Clemson game nor the UNC game are in play for his return.

You'd have to think we'd hear about him practicing full-speed for at least a week before he plays in a game, and unless I've missed something, we haven't heard that yet.

So, same as always. Status quo is still cautious optimism, but don't expect too much, and it's very possible KI is done for this season.

Practices are closed to the public so there's no way anybody could know one way or the other unless they're on the team or staff. I'm sure they've been told not to release such information.

[Troublemaker]

Practices are closed to the public so there's no way anybody could know one way or the other unless they're on the team or staff. I'm sure they've been told not to release such information.

That's possible, but I think odds are, as soon as Kyrie completes his first practice, we'd hear about it right away. From him. On twitter. Or from some other source/leak. In this day and age...

[epoulsen]

That's possible, but I think odds are, as soon as Kyrie completes his first practice, we'd hear about it right away. From him. On twitter. Or from some other source/leak. In this day and age...

Not really. Coach K runs a tight ship, I doubt anyone will risk anything just to be the first to break the news that KI practiced regardless of the medium, be it twitter, facebook or off the record to the news.

[uh_no]

Not really. Coach K runs a tight ship, I doubt anyone will risk anything just to be the first to break the news that KI practiced regardless of the medium, be it twitter, facebook or off the record to the news.

Gotta agree here. While i'm sure its fine that kyrie tweets vague stuff like "rehab going well" or "getting that feeling" these don't actually mean anything in terms of return. I'm sure any information on possible return is tightly controlled, and they've probably explicitly told kyrie what is and isn't okay to say. In fact, a lack of recent tweets on the issue may be the coaching staff telling him that he can't say anymore about it becuase it would involve him practicing.

FWIW, I don't think we'll know kyrie is playing until he walks out on the court in uniform

[_Gary]

That's possible, but I think odds are, as soon as Kyrie completes his first practice, we'd hear about it right away. From him. On twitter. Or from some other source/leak. In this day and age...

I think you are right. It's almost inconceivable for me to believe Duke is going to spring Kyrie on anyone at this point. When (actually, If) Kyrie is close to be ready to play I'm pretty sure we'll know it. At this point I think the absolute best case scenario is a return at the start of the ACC Tournament. That's probably the best we can hope for. And if we go through this entire week and don't hear something really positive I'd push that best case scenario back another week to the beginning of the NCAA's. But I'm only guessing, just like everyone else. I'd love to be proven wrong and see him suited up for Clemson or UNC. I just don't think that's likely.

[Newton_14]

I think you are right. It's almost inconceivable for me to believe Duke is going to spring Kyrie on anyone at this point. When (actually, If) Kyrie is close to be ready to play I'm pretty sure we'll know it. At this point I think the absolute best case scenario is a return at the start of the ACC Tournament. That's probably the best we can hope for. And if we go through this entire week and don't hear something really positive I'd push that best case scenario back another week to the beginning of the NCAA's. But I'm only guessing, just like everyone else. I'd love to be proven wrong and see him suited up for Clemson or UNC. I just don't think that's likely.

Did you "know" ahead of time when Brand returned? There was no announcement when Hurley came back from the broken foot either. If K wants it kept under wraps, then that is how it will be. As others have noted, the practices are closed. We will know when K chooses to let us know, and not a moment sooner.

[_Gary]

Did you "know" ahead of time when Brand returned? There was no announcement when Hurley came back from the broken foot either. If K wants it kept under wraps, then that is how it will be. As others have noted, the practices are closed. We will know when K chooses to let us know, and not a moment sooner.

You may very well be correct (and I certainly hope you are). I just think the world has changed a lot since those examples and even though Coach K definitely does run a tight ship, this situation has been so public that it seems hard for me to believe we'd literally hear nothing before he comes back. But I hear you and can't dispute your point.

One other point (that is not directed at you). It seems to me Coach K has not once been sandbagging during this situation. What he's said has been what the situation is since the beginning, IMHO.

[Troublemaker]

Haha, it's way too silly a topic for any of us to get into an extended debate about.

I'll just say this. I will bet anyone a steak dinner that if Kyrie plays in a game for Duke this season, we will know BEFORE the day of. Heck, Duke may even put out a press release. The assumption of an iron veil of secrecy is inconsistent with the previous Duke program M.O of constantly updating us on KI's status and, for example, letting us know exactly what date the cast would come off and rehab would begin.

PM me if you want to accept the bet. First come, first served. If you have information I don't, so be it. I'm a sucker then and your company will be enjoyed.

[UrinalCake]

Did you "know" ahead of time when Brand returned?

This article was published the day before Brand played. There had been rumors circulating for several days prior that he would play. Obviously Kyrie's situation is a little different, but I would imagine that an announcement would be made prior to him playing and probably after the game that precedes it.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/21/sports/colleges-duke-s-brand-to-return.html?src=pm

[Bluedog]

Duke program M.O of constantly updating us on KI's status and, for example, letting us know exactly what date the cast would come off and rehab would begin.

I'm not taking your bet but the Duke program wasn't the original source of when Kyrie's cast would come off. Coach K said nothing about it. It wasn't even Kyrie who tweeted it. It was kyrie's dad who released that info to Jeff Goodman. Once the staff knew his family was okay with release of that info, they didn't refute it when questioned about it. But the staff was not the source of the info. I'd think Kyrie's dad is more likely to reveal when he's going to play than Coach K is.

[Newton_14]

This article was published the day before Brand played. There had been rumors circulating for several days prior that he would play. Obviously Kyrie's situation is a little different, but I would imagine that an announcement would be made prior to him playing and probably after the game that precedes it.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/21/sports/colleges-duke-s-brand-to-return.html?src=pm

Thanks. Good find. So with Brand, there was a press release one day prior. Don't recall if that happened with Hurley or not, but I was at that game, and I could swear we were not sure he was playing until he trotted out for pre-game warm ups. So we may get one day's notice with Kyrie or no notice at all. My main point is Kyrie could be practicing right now with the outside world not being aware of it.

[Troublemaker]

UCake, you couldn't have waited like 10 minutes to post that link :) ?

I was already beginning to salivate thinking about Metro 8.

[Troublemaker]

Like I said, this debate is so silly and I kinda didn't want to write it. But please indulge me.

I'm going to look at this from a mathematical perspective wrt social networking.

If Kyrie is back practicing, how many people know about it? There's got to be at least 25 people right? All the coaches, all his teammates, all the trainers, all the doctors, and then Kyrie's immediate family as well. Out of this huge group of people, how many spouses have been told? Mickie K knows I bet. And she has probably told her daughters, too. The network grows. Kyrie's dad would have to know and he's got friend that he's going to tell. The media will find their way in with all these possible sources of leaks.

I'm a dilletante at this stuff. But I bet if we get an expert on social networks and its probability of information dissemination to analyze the situation we have here. I think this expert would say that there is a 1% chance that Kyrie can be practicing and we haven't heard about about it. The odds are just too low. When Kyrie starts practicing, it will be leaked.

[DukieTiger]

UCake, you couldn't have waited like 10 minutes to post that link :) ?

I was already beginning to salivate thinking about Metro 8.

Frank makes a mean churrasco, for sure. :p

Also, there was no twitter/facebook/etc in the Elton Brand days...

*Well, I see that Troublemaker posted on this topic almost simultaneously to me. I should elaborate what I mean, which is simply that I completely agree with T'maker's thoughts that there is a very small chance that Kyrie is/will be practicing with the team without that news leaking- given the nature of the media and social networking today as compared to 13 years ago.

[uh_no]

Like I said, this debate is so silly and I kinda didn't want to write it. But please indulge me.

I'm going to look at this from a mathematical perspective wrt social networking.

If Kyrie is back practicing, how many people know about it? There's got to be at least 25 people right? All the coaches, all his teammates, all the trainers, all the doctors, and then Kyrie's immediate family as well. Out of this huge group of people, how many spouses have been toldl? Mickie K knows I bet. And she has probably told her daughters, too. The network grows. Kyrie's dad would have to know and he's got friend that he's going to tell. The media will find their way in with all these possible sources of leaks.

I'm a dilletante at this stuff. But I bet if we get an expert on social networks and its probability of information dissemination to analyze the situation we have here. I think this expert would say that there is a 1% chance that Kyrie can be practicing and we haven't about it. The odds are just too low. When Kyrie starts practicing, it will be leaked.

So, now, the question is: how many of

You discount the fact that the people in the program respect coach K, and would be unlikely to go against his wishes if he ordered them not to speak about a certain subject.

[JohnGalt]

In fact, a lack of recent tweets on the issue may be the coaching staff telling him that he can't say anymore about it becuase it would involve him practicing.

FWIW, I don't think we'll know kyrie is playing until he walks out on the court in uniform



My main point is Kyrie could be practicing right now with the outside world not being aware of it.

Don't you all realize? Kyrie is frantically trying to communicate through lack of communication that he's healthy and practicing!!

[richardjackson199]

Doesn't it seem odd that the DBP Kyrie rehab video that was supposed to be released over the weekend and then last night was not released? Something is up. I have no idea what, but things are happening behind the scenes. I have no clue what to think. In this age of leaking - it's kind of nice to be surprised. I hope the world continues to know nothing until he enters the game in Chapel Hill.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Doesn't it seem odd that the DBP Kyrie rehab video that was supposed to be released over the weekend and then last night was not released? Something is up. I have no idea what, but things are happening behind the scenes. I have no clue what to think. In this age of leaking - it's kind of nice to be surprised. I hope the world continues to know nothing until he enters the game in Chapel Hill.
I think you're on to something there...

As to security, K runs a far tighter ship than the CIA. No Wikileaks here. :cool:

[airowe]

Doesn't it seem odd that the DBP Kyrie rehab video that was supposed to be released over the weekend and then last night was not released? Something is up. I have no idea what, but things are happening behind the scenes. I have no clue what to think. In this age of leaking - it's kind of nice to be surprised. I hope the world continues to know nothing until he enters the game in Chapel Hill.

That is really just a logistical issue. Don't expect too much from this video. It's more just an extension of the Inside Basketball with Duke's Coach K episode from last week.

As far as Troublemaker's bet goes, it's been really tight-lipped within Duke Basketball wrt Kyrie lately. I don't think it will be leaked by anyone, but I could see an announcement being made if/when Kyrie wears a Duke jersey again.

[CLT Devil]

You discount the fact that the people in the program respect coach K, and would be unlikely to go against his wishes if he ordered them not to speak about a certain subject.

^This - There are people in the BBall program, and the Athletic Board who may or may not know more than is being put out there but any leaked of information could likely be traced back to an individual as the ship is run so tight...why risk losing your position or harming a relationship over relasing information?

I want to tell people "just wait" or "the odds look good" but I respect what (little) inside information I have received from a source very close to the situation and would not put it out there because A) it's a rumor B) it only sets up for failure and C) He wouldn't want me running around telling people, just like K (though on a much smaller, molecular level).

We need to go on what K has said all along- Kyrie is most likely out for the season and we need to move on with who/what we have. It would be nice to get an announcement on way or the other, but like a moth to the flame I rush to read every Kyrie post out there to glean something...

[dukebluesincebirth]

Does anyone know why the video hasn't been put out yet on DBP? They said it would be out late last night...If it's nothing earth shattering like they say, what's the big hold up? I know it's not going to tell us if he's coming back or not, I'm just anxious to get a feel for the type of stuff he's doing. Come on guys! Hurry up!

[wtm001]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vnFgzvJzo&feature=feedu

Here it is!

[dukeballboy88]

Wednesday Duke vs Clemson in Cameron would be the perfect time to bring KI back!!! That will get him 2 tune ups for the ACC tourney and then he will be full stride by the NCAA's!

Hey, cant a guy wish!

[Mike Corey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vnFgzvJzo&feature=feedu

Here it is!

Remember, this was filmed a week ago.

[devildeac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vnFgzvJzo&feature=feedu

Here it is!

Toe-tally awesome. Thanks for finding and sharing.

[MIKESJ73]

Can anyone describe the video? I'm at work and my flash player is disabled! I've been checking for the video release every hour this past weekend.

How long is the video? Is Kyrie running, jumping, or shooting?

[smackedownz]

It's about 4:00, I have a feeling he'll be back. What does everyone else think?

[CDu]

Can anyone describe the video? I'm at work and my flash player is disabled! I've been checking for the video release every hour this past weekend.

How long is the video? Is Kyrie running, jumping, or shooting?

It's almost 4 minutes long. There's no jumping, cutting, or shooting. He's doing pool work (running in the pool) and table work with the trainer for most of the video.

Hopefully, since the video was filmed a week ago, he's progressed to bigger and better things since then (?).

[OZZIE4DUKE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vnFgzvJzo&feature=feedu

Here it is!


Remember, this was filmed a week ago.


Toe-tally awesome. Thanks for finding and sharing.
Much ado about nothing. We saw more in the K show 8 days ago, although the pool shots on the tread mill were nice.

I remain opTOEmistic for Wednesday night! Can The Toe come out toe play? I hope so!

[MCFinARL]

Can anyone describe the video? I'm at work and my flash player is disabled! I've been checking for the video release every hour this past weekend.

How long is the video? Is Kyrie running, jumping, or shooting?

He's running in water for a lot of it, but we don't see him on the court. It's really interesting--focused on how they have been approaching the rehab and why. And there is a lot of Kyrie talking about his experience and how happy he is that he chose Duke.

As sad as I am to have missed so many chances to see Kyrie play, I'm so glad we got the chance this season to see a little bit of what he is like as a teammate and a person--he is a really impressive kid.

[91_92_01_10_15]

Can anyone describe the video? I'm at work and my flash player is disabled! I've been checking for the video release every hour this past weekend.

How long is the video? Is Kyrie running, jumping, or shooting?

Interviews with Kyrie and DBB physical therapist Nick Potter, who said that Kyrie was perhaps a step ahead of where they thought he would be at this point, but he also said he had "a long way to go." Potter also said that Kyrie was only running in the pool at that time because the toe was under maximum strain when pushing off.

[UrinalCake]

Great to see some video of Kyrie and the infamous toe. The guy is working his butt off and deserves a ton of credit for his positive, upbeat attitude. It must be killing him to not be able to play.

And what a testament to the incredible medical staff at the team's disposal. Hearing Kyrie voice his appreciation for their support was pretty awesome.

[Andre Buckner Fan]

Great to see some video of Kyrie and the infamous toe. The guy is working his butt off and deserves a ton of credit for his positive, upbeat attitude. It must be killing him to not be able to play.

And what a testament to the incredible medical staff at the team's disposal. Hearing Kyrie voice his appreciation for their support was pretty awesome.


It was great to see his attitude and hard work but the video made it seem almost impossible that he'll be back in the regular season or the ACCT. NCAA's are only a slim possibility if running with no strain in a pool is the furthest they're willing to allow any stress on the foot.

There's no way he's game ready for at least 3-4 weeks.

[epoulsen]

Lots of hullabaloo for nothing, not that I expected that much. I was at the Temple game last week and came out the game store to be greeted by a skipping Kyrie Irving. At the time I thought "with a basketball in his hands and that skip we could have another title". All this video did was make me think "maybe he should have saved the skipping for the pool." Like most toe videos on the internet, this one left me feeling empty.:o

[superdave]

There's no way he's game ready for at least 3-4 weeks.

It sounds like people are still saying it's possible. If 3-4 weeks were the timetable, Duke probably would have announced he's not coming back this year because that would be late March. So the fact that such an announcement has not happened yet suggests the possibility of a return still exists.

[budwom]

definitely not back for Clemmons.

[_Gary]

It sounds like people are still saying it's possible. If 3-4 weeks were the timetable, Duke probably would have announced he's not coming back this year because that would be late March. So the fact that such an announcement has not happened yet suggests the possibility of a return still exists.

I imagine no one in the know wants to say he's absolutely, positively not coming back at all, because the reality is that anything can happen when we are talking about rehab and the body's healing process. Having said that, I have to admit the video didn't exactly raise my optoemistic meter. Hope always springs eternal, but right now I'm not persuaded Kyrie will make it back before the ACC Tourney, and even that sounds like a stretch after watching the video. But no matter what happens, we have another great ambassador for Duke basketball and I'm very proud that Kyrie is a Blue Devil.

[sagegrouse]

definitely not back for Clemmons.

OK, I'm off the Kyrie train. I don't think he's coming back.


There has been no announcement or encouraging word from the program.

He is still doing (as of last week) his "fast starts" in a swimming pool.

Announcing that he is definitely not playing this year has a downside, in that all the questions will then be about will he come back next year -- unfair to Kyrie and defocusing for the program.

And we gotta focus on the team and task at hand.


What You See Is What You Get for the rest of the season. We have plenty of players (compared with last year) and lots of talent. Let's go win some games.

sagegrouse

[dukebluesincebirth]

Good news: I'm glad I finally got to see the video because it gave me more perspective on the reality of Kyrie coming back.

Bad news: The video gave me the reality that it's a LONG shot for him to come back. If he's not even doing drills on a hard surface with basketball shoes on yet, he's got a long way to go. I was really hoping to see him doing at least some light jogging on a hard surface or maybe even some light cutting motions... but he's only running in a pool!

I don't know why all the rumors about the Wed. night return. Unfortunately, that ain't happening. This was pretty discouraging to me.

[_Gary]

OK, I'm off the Kyrie train. I don't think he's coming back.


There has been no announcement or encouraging word from the program.
He is still doing (as of last week) his "fast starts" in a swimming pool.
Announcing that he is definitely not playing this year has a downside, in that all the questions will then be about will he come back next year -- unfair to Kyrie and defocusing for the program.
And we gotta focus on the team and task at hand.


What You See Is What You Get for the rest of the season. We have plenty of players (compared with last year) and lots of talent. Let's go win some games.

sagegrouse


I was trying really hard not to say I honestly don't think he's coming back, but after you said it I have to agree (even if people think I'm pessimistic or a bad fan or whatever). The video did nothing to make me think he'll be back this season. To the contrary actually. :(

[CDu]

OK, I'm off the Kyrie train. I don't think he's coming back.


There has been no announcement or encouraging word from the program.

He is still doing (as of last week) his "fast starts" in a swimming pool.

Announcing that he is definitely not playing this year has a downside, in that all the questions will then be about will he come back next year -- unfair to Kyrie and defocusing for the program.

And we gotta focus on the team and task at hand.


What You See Is What You Get for the rest of the season. We have plenty of players (compared with last year) and lots of talent. Let's go win some games.

sagegrouse

Yeah, I certainly will be pleased to be wrong on this, but that video doesn't lead me to believe he's coming back this year.

[dukebluesincebirth]

Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
OK, I'm off the Kyrie train. I don't think he's coming back.

1. There has been no announcement or encouraging word from the program.
2. He is still doing (as of last week) his "fast starts" in a swimming pool.
3. Announcing that he is definitely not playing this year has a downside, in that all the questions will then be about will he come back next year -- unfair to Kyrie and defocusing for the program.
4. And we gotta focus on the team and task at hand.


What You See Is What You Get for the rest of the season. We have plenty of players (compared with last year) and lots of talent. Let's go win some games.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
sagegrouse

I was trying really hard not to say I honestly don't think he's coming back, but after you said it I have to agree (even if people think I'm pessimistic or a bad fan or whatever). The video did nothing to make me think he'll be back this season. To the contrary actually.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you both... I'm just glad we're not hoping for nothing now. As stated above, it's time to move on. What we have is what we have and we need some guys to step up to get us back to the championship. Go DEVILS!

[mehmattski]

You guys are so focused on one kid's toe that no one has mentioned the best part of the video: Nolan Smith in a bubble bath in the rehab pool (with his clothes on)! Check it out at :30 into the video:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_qR7ksA-9iBw/TWvL9_7suvI/AAAAAAAABo8/7gce4A0Blz8/nolantub.jpg

[ACniner]

I'm not prepared to allow this video that was filmed a week ago ruin any hopes I have of his return. I know it's an apples to oranges comparison, but I had knee surgery last year for a patella and quad tendon rupture. I was only in therapy 2 days a week, and I did limited therapy at home a few other days. With just 2 days of therapy, I would have weeks of no gains, and then the following week I would make huge jumps and go into more advanced exercises. He has the luxury have having daily sessions with the best of the best. The video shows exactly what I've thought all along....Kyrie is progressing on their schedule and maybe a little ahead. He's not running around a gym dunking basketballs, but he's now getting the weak muscles back into shape, and learning how to push off and run again. They HAVE to be cautious with an injury like his, or he will be back to square one. Who knows what he's doing after just a week. I guarantee you he's already in a more advanced stage this week and getting stronger by the day.

[tylervinyard]

Anyone have a link to the Kyrie training clip from Inside Duke Basketball from a week ago? I never had a chance to DVR it.

[tylervinyard]

Also, at the very end of the DBP video, does he say "Whether I come back this year or sometime in the future, I'm going to be playing <insert word>"? Did he say "here" or did he say "again" or something else?

[dcdevil2009]

Also, at the very end of the DBP video, does he say "Whether I come back this year or sometime in the future, I'm going to be playing <insert word>"? Did he say "here" or did he say "again" or something else?

It sounded like "again" with a "you know" thrown in somewhere earlier in the quote

[Devil07]

Well, why the video itself certainly wasn't encouraging (in regards to him coming back this season at least), I'm going to try to refrain from reading too much into it. This was filmed around the same time that Mike and others were giving solid hints of their op(toe)mism. If what we saw in the video was such a bad sign for Kyrie's prospects of returning this year, I don't know why we would have gotten such positive vibes. I admit that's a tenuous argument, but I'm going to stick to the idea that those that would know such things knew more about Kyrie's potential for return when this was filmed than we can get from watching it.

[MChambers]

Well, why the video itself certainly wasn't encouraging (in regards to him coming back this season at least), I'm going to try to refrain from reading too much into it. This was filmed around the same time that Mike and others were giving solid hints of their op(toe)mism. If what we saw in the video was such a bad sign for Kyrie's prospects of returning this year, I don't know why we would have gotten such positive vibes. I admit that's a tenuous argument, but I'm going to stick to the idea that those that would know such things knew more about Kyrie's potential for return when this was filmed than we can get from watching it.
I was thinking the same thing. I think we're saying there's a chance, and not just in the Jim Carey sense.

[CDu]

Well, why the video itself certainly wasn't encouraging (in regards to him coming back this season at least), I'm going to try to refrain from reading too much into it. This was filmed around the same time that Mike and others were giving solid hints of their op(toe)mism. If what we saw in the video was such a bad sign for Kyrie's prospects of returning this year, I don't know why we would have gotten such positive vibes. I admit that's a tenuous argument, but I'm going to stick to the idea that those that would know such things knew more about Kyrie's potential for return when this was filmed than we can get from watching it.

Right. Nothing about the video suggests he's coming back this season. One can certainly hope that more interesting/positive stuff is going on that we aren't seeing. But for those hoping that the video would give reason for optimism, the video doesn't really do that.

[Mike Corey]

Here's what I'm being told right now: There is still no timetable for Kyrie's return.

[DukeBlueNV]

I'm going to bet that video did not shown EVERYTHING that KI is doing. Duke Blue Planet is an OFFICIAL part of Duke Basketball and is ultimitately controlled by the coachin staff. They probably requested to only show the basics of the rehab for information control and the speculation that would come from fans and press. IIRC Mike Corey (?) said it was shot after Inside Duke Basketball, which showed Kyrie working out on the hardwood. I'm sure there is a lot more going on then just stretching and running in a tub.

[uh_no]

i'm going to bet that video did not shown everything that ki is doing. Duke blue planet is an official part of duke basketball and is ultimitately controlled by the coachin staff. They probably requested to only show the basics of the rehab for information control and the speculation that would come from fans and press. Iirc mike corey (?) said it was shot after inside duke basketball, which showed kyrie working out on the hardwood. I'm sure there is a lot more going on then just stretching and running in a tub.

conspiracy!

[BigZ]

I'm going to bet that video did not shown EVERYTHING that KI is doing. Duke Blue Planet is an OFFICIAL part of Duke Basketball and is ultimitately controlled by the coachin staff. They probably requested to only show the basics of the rehab for information control and the speculation that would come from fans and press. IIRC Mike Corey (?) said it was shot after Inside Duke Basketball, which showed Kyrie working out on the hardwood. I'm sure there is a lot more going on then just stretching and running in a tub.

exactly my thought. he could be shooting, dribbling and other more basketball related activities. he and duke wouldn't have released it if they thought he wasn't progressing fast.

[oldnavy]

I am not sure what the folks that watch that video see that makes them be more pessimistic than before unless the expectation was that we were going to see him doing basketball workouts and running the blue team in a scrimmage.

It was basically a very short, well controlled media release of pretty routine PT exercises. I highly doubt that any definitive info about his return either stated or demonstrated on camera would come from this type of video release.

You can bet that the tape was edited down in fact to ensure that no suggestion would be made by its contents.

I don't know if he will be back or not, but this didn't discourage me... didn't encourage me either.....

[MCFinARL]

It sounded like "again" with a "you know" thrown in somewhere earlier in the quote

Yeah, it's definitely "I'm going to be playing again." Nothing about whether that would be at Duke if it's not this year.

[MCFinARL]

I am not sure what the folks that watch that video see that makes them be more pessimistic than before unless the expectation was that we were going to see him doing basketball workouts and running the blue team in a scrimmage.

It was basically a very short, well controlled media release of pretty routine PT exercises. I highly doubt that any definitive info about his return either stated or demonstrated on camera would come from this type of video release.

You can bet that the tape was edited down in fact to ensure that no suggestion would be made by its contents.

I don't know if he will be back or not, but this didn't discourage me... didn't encourage me either.....

I agree. Bottom line, it's an interesting video about his rehab and a nice PR piece for Duke, but it doesn't offer any tea leaves to read about whether he will play this year or not, and it's not intended to. It seems quite possible, with or without the video, that they don't really know yet whether he will play this year or not--so we are just where we have always been, "out indefinitely."

[dukebluesincebirth]

What worried me is when the trainer said they were using the pool because they "weren't able to do much on the floor at this time"... Running under water looks to be the MOST intense pressure he can put on the toe as of 1 week ago, so I don't think he's doing much more than what we saw. Not trying to be pessimistic guys, just realistic.

[Kedsy]

Here's what I'm being told right now: There is still no timetable for Kyrie's return.

Which suggests it won't be this week. Any return would be fine by me, though, so I'm not discouraged.

[wgl1228]

Are we 100% sure this was all shot last week? I have not seen the video so I was wondering if this could be compiled footage? Additionally, it does seem odd that Duke would promote this if they thought he wouldn't return.

[uh_no]

Are we 100% sure this was all shot last week? I have not seen the video so I was wondering if this could be compiled footage? Additionally, it does seem odd that Duke would promote this if they thought he wouldn't return.

was wondering this a bit....seems odd that almost a month after having the cast off that he still wouldn't be out of the pool

[sleepybear]

Are we 100% sure this was all shot last week? I have not seen the video so I was wondering if this could be compiled footage? Additionally, it does seem odd that Duke would promote this if they thought he wouldn't return.

Kyrie tweeted about the video on Feb 21. I suspect the video must be at least 8 days old.

[dukefan75]

has been that with his draft stock being so high, why risk anything? But in my opinion, with such confusion about the injury/recovery, it may actually be harmful to his draft prospects if he DOES NOT come back. If he never provides more film to the NBA, there will be mass questions as to his health and if he really is recovered. A private workout won't do justice to his resume that a real live game can. I would think if he is ABLE to play, he will. I pay no mind to any comments suggesting that "his best interests" lie in preparing for draft.

[Cameron]

Here's what I'm being told right now: There is still no timetable for Kyrie's return.

Could "there is no timetable for his return" not also just mean that they are tabling the time of his return until he actually returns?

Of all the people on this board, I would put much more credence in what somebody of your stature says, Mike, considering that you obviously work very closely with the team on a regular basis. There are a few others here about whom I would say the same. However, even if there were a set timetable for Kyrie's return to the floor at this juncture, would you expect to know the particulars of it, especially with how under-wraps talk of the injury has been (no pun intended) from inside the K Camp since late December?

Maybe you can't answer that question, and I understand if not. Thanks. At this point, any news is pretty good news.

[bjornolf]

Having rehabbed a half dozen of my own injuries and talking to my dad's physical therapist, Kyrie's at least a month away from being able to play basketball in that video. And that's just being able to dribble and shoot. That's not running full speed and cutting and defending and doing all the stuff you have to do to play a full speed game. From that video, second week of the tourney is the EARLIEST he could be back. Hey, I hope I'm wrong, but that's what we see based on the exercises he's doing and what his therapist said.

[Kedsy]

From that video, second week of the tourney is the EARLIEST he could be back. Hey, I hope I'm wrong, but that's what we see based on the exercises he's doing and what his therapist said.

Second week of the tournament is fine. Obviously it will be great to have him back whenever he comes back, but second week of the tournament is when we may start needing him in order to win games.

[tele]

To me it was encouraging to see that KI's spirits are up and he seems to be recovering well. I don't draw any conclusions about the timing of his return to the court, but looks very good to see him on his feet and running on his toe, even if it is in the pool.

I thought the trainers comments on how he was running with normal motion, and not favoring or protecting his toe were interesting. That and doing the resistance training in the pool give me some cause for optoemism, even from this minimal clip. Besides the fitness benefits, using the pool work to get past the tendency to favor the injured area suggests that the healing is far enough along that there isn't a need to favor it, at least for straight ahead pool running, but probably in general too. Obviously, if you are favouring it, you not only can limit your performance after your return to playing, but also can cause other injuries in other areas by shifting stress there. Looks like a good way of developing full confidence in the injured areas recovery and to reclaim the subconscious muscle memory for full range of use. Working on not favoring it and getting stronger looks very positive to me.

[dukefan75]

mike corey--
your latest post seems to conflict with most of your earlier information. Obviously this video was posted (but it is old news), but has anything changed in the last 24 hours to affect his status?

[Chris Randolph]

Just watched the video, fun watch. Kyrie and the staff are working their butts off and that is cool to see

I think our best hope to see Kyrie in a Duke uniform would be in the 2011-12 season. That being said, our hope is very small. I just don't see a return this year (based on the video and the fact that was shot a week ago) or next year (nba) for that matter. Such a shame for him, his teammates/coaches and the fans

Kudos to Kyrie's handling of the situation, handling it like a grown man

[oldnavy]

What worried me is when the trainer said they were using the pool because they "weren't able to do much on the floor at this time"... Running under water looks to be the MOST intense pressure he can put on the toe as of 1 week ago, so I don't think he's doing much more than what we saw. Not trying to be pessimistic guys, just realistic.

"Much" is the key word. Had he said "any" work on the floor then that would have said a lot. Much, could just mean that he is not at the point to where he would be able to do enough to help with conditioning (i.e., run sprints or distance).

Again, I DO NOT HAVE A CLUE, but when I try to be objective, I just do not see anything here that makes me think that he is NOT coming back this year, and more that makes me think he may...

[tele]

"Much" is the key word. Had he said "any" work on the floor then that would have said a lot. Much, could just mean that he is not at the point to where he would be able to do enough to help with conditioning (i.e., run sprints or distance).

Again, I DO NOT HAVE A CLUE, but when I try to be objective, I just do not see anything here that makes me think that he is NOT coming back this year, and more that makes me think he may...

Maybe someone else was using the floor at that time, so they had to do work in the pool area. I don't have any more of an idea than anyone else, but I agree that there is nothing in that clip that would make you conclude he is not coming back this year, or even how soon that may be. Just because something isn't shown doesn't mean that it isn't taking place, he may already be dribbling shooting and even cutting, they just chose not to include that in this video. You can't conclude much either way from this video, which was probably intentional.

[uh_no]

Maybe someone else was using the floor at that time, so they had to do work in the pool area.

I think that may be a bit of a stretch...

[gam7]

The one thing I gathered from the video is that Coach K thinks Duke will end up in the New Orleans bracket, which would be the site most likely to suffer from severe flooding. The trainers are getting Kyrie ready to play, even in a situation where we play on a flooded court. If that happens, Kyrie is going to absolutely dominate.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The one thing I gathered from the video is that Coach K thinks Duke will end up in the New Orleans bracket, which would be the site most likely to suffer from severe flooding. The trainers are getting Kyrie ready to play, even in a situation where we play on a flooded court. If that happens, Kyrie is going to absolutely dominate.
I love it! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/16.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/bouncyblue.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

[tele]

I think that may be a bit of a stretch...

Maybe so, but sometimes tea leaves are just tea leaves...

[sdotbarbee]

Having rehabbed a half dozen of my own injuries and talking to my dad's physical therapist, Kyrie's at least a month away from being able to play basketball in that video. And that's just being able to dribble and shoot. That's not running full speed and cutting and defending and doing all the stuff you have to do to play a full speed game. From that video, second week of the tourney is the EARLIEST he could be back. Hey, I hope I'm wrong, but that's what we see based on the exercises he's doing and what his therapist said.

You got all of that from a 4 minute video? They showed us what they wanted us to see, he could just be warming up in the pool because they showed on Inside Duke Basketball Kyrie doing work on the court with the trainers and elastic bands. He was sliding his feet on the court with the trainers pulling back on him with the elastic bands. I highly doubt that if he couldn't run or push off the toe on the court he would be doing those kinds of exercises especially with the resistance the elastic bands and the trainers were putting on him.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

When I had carpal tunnel in my big toe (I know different injury, same area) I toe was asked toe do pool workouts. OUCHIE OUCHIE OUCHIE It wasn't until the toe was on its way back to "normalcy" that I could even get in the pool without cursing like a sailor. Remember, it is harder toe run in water than in air!! The team is very conservative as they should be, but I am very encouraged. My big toe is starting to hurt a bit just thinking about those swimming exercises.

GO DUKE!

[rthomas]

JWill just tweeted : An idle mind is the devil's work shop. Keep it moving & stay focused on your goal.

Everyone who is contributing to this thread should pay heed to his wisdom - because none of you know anything about what you are talking, worrying, angsting (if that was a word) about. Your speculation means nada. ziltch.

[wilson]

Hi,

When I had carpal tunnel in my big toe...

GO DUKE!I'm not purporting to know more about your body or its care than you do (in contrast to many of the posters in this thread), but wouldn't that actually be tarsal tunnel? I've never even heard of that injury in the foot, but if I'm not mistaken, the tarsals are the ankle's analog to the wrist's carpals.
And of course, this tangent is entirely inconsequential to the matter at hand (well, foot...).

[Kewlswim]

I'm not purporting to know more about your body or its care than you do (in contrast to many of the posters in this thread), but wouldn't that actually be tarsal tunnel? I've never even heard of that injury in the foot, but if I'm not mistaken, the tarsals are the ankle's analog to the wrist's carpals.
And of course, this tangent is entirely inconsequential to the matter at hand (well, foot...).

Hi Wilson,

The esteemed Dr. Donnato (orthopedic surgeon to the Golden State Warriors and the SF Ballet) might not have provided the actual name (at least when speaking to me) of the repetitive stress injury. He said to think of it like "carpal tunnel in your big toe."

GO DUKE!

[David Bunkley]

I just found out from a very reliable source that the video of Kyrie's rehab was shot a week ago.

[tele]

JWill just tweeted : An idle mind is the devil's work shop. Keep it moving & stay focused on your goal.

Everyone who is contributing to this thread should pay heed to his wisdom - because none of you know anything about what you are talking, worrying, angsting (if that was a word) about. Your speculation means nada. ziltch.

Would you include your own post in this or are you claiming some sort of tweet exemption?

[duke1983]

Keep in mind, this video was an extension from "Inside Duke Basketball with Coach K" which was originally aired on Feb. 13th. In that video Kyrie did a drill in which the trainer had the elastic band around his waist while Kyrie dribbled a basketball (while moving forward and pushing off of his toe) on the court of their practice facility. Seems pretty encouraging...

[Cameron]

Your speculation means nada. ziltch.

Hi, thomas, welcome to the Internet.

Lol. ;)

[coldriver10]

I'm tired of all the speculation, so here is what I know: Kyrie's trainer is HOT.

I don't have a link or source to confirm this, but you'll just have to trust me.

[uh_no]

Keep in mind, this video was an extension from "Inside Duke Basketball with Coach K" which was originally aired on Feb. 13th. In that video Kyrie did a drill in which the trainer had the elastic band around his waist while Kyrie dribbled a basketball (while moving forward and pushing off of his toe) on the court of their practice facility. Seems pretty encouraging...

Personally I think that is the most promising development. That sort of exercise puts a ton of stress on the toe.

[JasonEvans]

Sigh...

People, we have no way of knowing anything from these videos of Kyrie about what the timetable toward full recovery may be. Different injuries take different lengths of time to heal.

Here is an example-- lets say you saw someone coming out a doctor's office on crutches. This person could clearly not put weight on their leg/foot at all. What would this mean for recovery?


The hurt person could have a mild sprain-- it hurts like the dickens for a few hours and you cannot really walk on it, but many injuries like this are pretty much better in 24-48 hours.

The hurt person could have a twisted ankle, an injury that would likely keep you out a couple weeks.

The hurt person could have broken ankle. Ouch! Those are nasty and would likely leave him on crutches for well over a month.

The hurt person could have torn tendons in his/her foot/ankle/knee and could be looking at 6+ months of rehab.

Different injuries heal at different paces. Kyrie's injury is especially rare (has any even heard a definitive statement about what it is called?!?!?) which makes our ability to diagnose recovery time a total shot in the dark. We have seen video of Kyrie doing all kinds of rehab stuff -- but we have no idea if the path from running in the pool and getting your toe massaged by the trainer is one week until full recovery or two months.

I know we are all looking for some news -- especially in the wake of another loss -- and I enjoy reading the speculation and sometimes informed hints in this thread. But, attempting to look at that video (which was shot sometimes like 10 days ago) and draw any conclusions about how quickly Kyrie can go from running in a pool to running on a basketball court is a fool's errand.

--Jason "I really, really want to see Kyrie in a Duke uniform again-- a piece of me fells like we've been cheated, so far, out of enjoying an all-time kinda season" Evans

[taiw93]

Couldn't have really expected to see more than this at this point. It's not like DBP would just surprise us with footage of Kyrie practicing at full speed all of a sudden. However, this video did confirm that Kyrie is doing quite well, and I am quite happy about that. I do not know if Kyrie will play again this season, but I would not be surprised if he was able to play by the beginning of the NCAA tournament, just based on his progress so far.

[Lord Ash]

I'm tired of all the speculation, so here is what I know: Kyrie's trainer is HOT.

I don't have a link or source to confirm this, but you'll just have to trust me.

I remember quite well going to rehab for a year when I was about 13 for a sports injury. My trainer's name was Patti Castle. She was this bubbly, buff, beautifully round, buxom blond with sparkling blue eyes and a perfectly browned tan.

My injury, btw, was a groin injury that required lots of hands on therapy.

I assure you, no 13 year old boy has EVER wished for continued painful injury more than I did for that year.

[uh_no]

I remember quite well going to rehab for a year when I was about 13 for a sports injury. My trainer's name was Patti Castle. She was this bubbly, buff, beautifully round, buxom blond with sparkling blue eyes and a perfectly browned tan.

My injury, btw, was a groin injury that required lots of hands on therapy.

I assure you, no 13 year old boy has EVER wished for continued painful injury more than I did for that year.

Oh dear.

[tommy]

--Jason "I really, really want to see Kyrie in a Duke uniform again-- a piece of me fells like we've been cheated, so far, out of enjoying an all-time kinda season" Evans

Yeah, that's the way I feel too. To have a team that's been top 5 all year and one of the real contenders for a #1 seed, and to be in that position without a kid who dominated two of the purported other top players in the nation at his position (in the first 7 games of his career) at the most important position on the floor, and would almost assuredly be a top 3 pick in the NBA Draft, well, this team could've been very, very special.

Personally, I don't think Kyrie is going to make it back. It just feels like it's too late in the season given where he apparently is in the rehab process. The sand is almost out of the hourglass, folks, and he'd (again, apparently) need to make some major, major strides to be ready to compete at the highest level of college basketball. I of course would be ecstatic to be completely wrong.

Of course no one has been "cheated" out of the experience more than Kyrie himself, but I definitely feel that we as fans have been too. He's the most dynamic ballplayer we've successfully recruited in at least a decade, if not more, and with all the other pieces we have, it could've really been something to behold. What a shame.

[Class of '94]

Yeah, that's the way I feel too. To have a team that's been top 5 all year and one of the real contenders for a #1 seed, and to be in that position without a kid who dominated two of the purported other top players in the nation at his position (in the first 7 games of his career) at the most important position on the floor, and would almost assuredly be a top 3 pick in the NBA Draft, well, this team could've been very, very special.

Personally, I don't think Kyrie is going to make it back. It just feels like it's too late in the season given where he apparently is in the rehab process. The sand is almost out of the hourglass, folks, and he'd (again, apparently) need to make some major, major strides to be ready to compete at the highest level of college basketball. I of course would be ecstatic to be completely wrong.

Of course no one has been "cheated" out of the experience more than Kyrie himself, but I definitely feel that we as fans have been too. He's the most dynamic ballplayer we've successfully recruited in at least a decade, if not more, and with all the other pieces we have, it could've really been something to behold. What a shame.

I understand how you guys are feeling. Kyrie is a special talent and it would've been nice to have had him for the whole season (and I'm hoping he still comes back for the postseason this year). Saying that, this is still a very special year. The team is currently 26-3, well ahead of the pace that last year's team set up to this point. This team is still very good; and is position to tie or win the ACC regular season for a 2nd consecutive year. And when you factor in the fact that this team is still a strong contender for the ACC and NCAA tournament championships as well as Coach K passing Bob Knight as the all-time D-1 men's basketball wins leader, this could still be a very, very special year for the team with or without Kyrie.

With all of that being said, if Kyrie does not play in Wednesday game, the earliest he plays would be at the ACC tournament if at all IMO. I don't see Kyrie playing at Chapel Hill in a hostile enviornment as his first game back.

[jaygdevil11]

Yeah, that's the way I feel too. To have a team that's been top 5 all year and one of the real contenders for a #1 seed, and to be in that position without a kid who dominated two of the purported other top players in the nation at his position (in the first 7 games of his career) at the most important position on the floor, and would almost assuredly be a top 3 pick in the NBA Draft, well, this team could've been very, very special.

Personally, I don't think Kyrie is going to make it back. It just feels like it's too late in the season given where he apparently is in the rehab process. The sand is almost out of the hourglass, folks, and he'd (again, apparently) need to make some major, major strides to be ready to compete at the highest level of college basketball. I of course would be ecstatic to be completely wrong.

Of course no one has been "cheated" out of the experience more than Kyrie himself, but I definitely feel that we as fans have been too. He's the most dynamic ballplayer we've successfully recruited in at least a decade, if not more, and with all the other pieces we have, it could've really been something to behold. What a shame.

I feel this was as well. It seems as if I have not really allowed myself to enjoy much of the season and have been wishing away games just to get to the tourney in hopes of a Kyrie return. It just really has been a strange season. With the Heels playing well at the right time and with us just treading water, it makes it that much more difficult.

[Class of '94]

I feel this was as well. It seems as if I have not really allowed myself to enjoy much of the season and have been wishing away games just to get to the tourney in hopes of a Kyrie return. It just really has been a strange season. With the Heels playing well at the right time and with us just treading water, it makes it that much more difficult.

Please don't misinterpret this as me attacking you or coming down hard on you; but do you mind if I ask you how we are treading water at 26-3, currently No. 4 in the country, been No. 1 twice throughtout the season, atop the ACC, in contention for a No. 1 seed, and a strong contender to win back to back NCs?

[Lord Ash]

I actually agree with the "almost feels a little cheated/treading water" sort of idea... I take the "treading water" idea as if we are watching games and the team thinking 'Well, okay... when is Kyrie coming back?'... as if we are sort of waiting for something, and that waiting takes away from the overall enjoyment. The record of the team in the meantime doesn't really have an impact one way or the other.

It is very much a shame. This could have been a real all-time sort of team if Kyrie had stayed healthy.

[_Gary]

Yeah, that's the way I feel too. To have a team that's been top 5 all year and one of the real contenders for a #1 seed, and to be in that position without a kid who dominated two of the purported other top players in the nation at his position (in the first 7 games of his career) at the most important position on the floor, and would almost assuredly be a top 3 pick in the NBA Draft, well, this team could've been very, very special.

Personally, I don't think Kyrie is going to make it back. It just feels like it's too late in the season given where he apparently is in the rehab process. The sand is almost out of the hourglass, folks, and he'd (again, apparently) need to make some major, major strides to be ready to compete at the highest level of college basketball. I of course would be ecstatic to be completely wrong.

Of course no one has been "cheated" out of the experience more than Kyrie himself, but I definitely feel that we as fans have been too. He's the most dynamic ballplayer we've successfully recruited in at least a decade, if not more, and with all the other pieces we have, it could've really been something to behold. What a shame.


I just want to add a big A-M-E-N to that post. You've accurately captured my feelings, and I'm sure the feelings of many other Duke fans. The first thought that came to my mind after reading Jason's signature is that, if anything, it was an understated truth. Not only has Kyrie missed out on what very likely would have been a truly dominant season (both for himself and the team), but we as fans have missed seeing what I believe is the most poised and dynamic freshman PG this team has ever seen (no disrespect to Bobby, Jason, or any other Duke PG intended).

[bjornolf]

You got all of that from a 4 minute video? They showed us what they wanted us to see, he could just be warming up in the pool because they showed on Inside Duke Basketball Kyrie doing work on the court with the trainers and elastic bands. He was sliding his feet on the court with the trainers pulling back on him with the elastic bands. I highly doubt that if he couldn't run or push off the toe on the court he would be doing those kinds of exercises especially with the resistance the elastic bands and the trainers were putting on him.

I got that from the trainer's quote at 1:27: "We can't do a lot on the ground yet so we bring him in the pool. Now we can go through the full range of motion, but with less stress from his body weight." Now maybe the trainer's hedging, but to me, if he can't run full speed straight forward with all his weight on the ground (which is what he was doing in the pool), he's a long way off. I haven't seen what he was doing with the elastic bands, but if all his weight was on his other foot when he was doing that, then that's not the same thing at all. In the video, his out of pool work consisted of stretching with the injured foot flat on the ground, barely leaning over the bad foot. That puts weight on the foot, but very little pressure or force on the injured part of the foot, and the pressure that IS applied is straight up and down. The danger is in flexing and twisting. He wasn't doing any of that.

[Dr. Tina]

I remember quite well going to rehab for a year when I was about 13 for a sports injury. My trainer's name was Patti Castle. She was this bubbly, buff, beautifully round, buxom blond with sparkling blue eyes and a perfectly browned tan.

My injury, btw, was a groin injury that required lots of hands on therapy.

I assure you, no 13 year old boy has EVER wished for continued painful injury more than I did for that year.

LOL! Too funny! Also, I agree that Kyrie's trainer is very easy on the eyes... ;)

[uh_no]

Please don't misinterpret this as me attacking you or coming down hard on you; but do you mind if I ask you how we are treading water at 26-3, currently No. 4 in the country, been No. 1 twice throughtout the season, atop the ACC, in contention for a No. 1 seed, and a strong contender to win back to back NCs?

We now have 2 bubble losses and still only 1 win against a strong team in north carolina (maybe temple....but they're likely around an 8 or 9 seed)

We haven't played anybody that has proven we can get to a final four. Does that mean we can't? no, but there are teams out there that look an awful lot better than duke, OSU for instance...contender, yes, but strong contender? maybe if we win out the conference tourney

[sporthenry]

I agree that it is a bit disheartening to hear he wasn't ready to run on hard ground, but I feel that they expect him to be able to make cuts once he makes it to hard ground.
It seemed to me that one of the biggest reasons to run him under water was to give him and his body confidence in his ability to run as anyone who has experienced an injury knows that you start to run differently to protect your injury which ends up either flaring up the old injury or bringing on a new one. Hopefully, he gets his full range of motion back once he sets foot on a basketball court, but it seems like he won't play until the NCAAT and even then, his time will be limited. Just getting him back might push this team to the S16 or E8 where hopefully he could have an impact by then.

[Class of '94]

So if we repeat as ACC regular season and tournment champions as well as NCAA tournament champions without Kyrie, Duke fans will still wonder about "what if we Kyrie"? Hopefully, not as much if all that happens....;)

I would've loved to have seen him play a full season with Duke this year (if only to show the country and UNC fans that Duke would've been the one dominant team this year, a team I think would've matched up very well against the UNC team of 2009). But it just wasn't meant to be; and as easy it is to do, I think dwelling on what could've been isn't very productive and it takes away from what the team has accomplished this year.

I still think Kyrie will be back this season to play if his rehab goes well; and if and when he does return, I'm going to try my hardest not think about "what if". That will only depress me. :)

[bjornolf]

I got that from the trainer's quote at 1:27: "We can't do a lot on the ground yet so we bring him in the pool. Now we can go through the full range of motion, but with less stress from his body weight." Now maybe the trainer's hedging, but to me, if he can't run full speed straight forward with all his weight on the ground (which is what he was doing in the pool), he's a long way off. I haven't seen what he was doing with the elastic bands, but if all his weight was on his other foot when he was doing that, then that's not the same thing at all. In the video, his out of pool work consisted of stretching with the injured foot flat on the ground, barely leaning over the bad foot. That puts weight on the foot, but very little pressure or force on the injured part of the foot, and the pressure that IS applied is straight up and down. The danger is in flexing and twisting. He wasn't doing any of that.

Don't get me wrong... I hope I'm wrong and he's back soon. I just don't see it, and the biggest factor in that is the quote by the trainer.

[wilson]

I got that from the trainer's quote at 1:27: "We can't do a lot on the ground yet so we bring him in the pool. Now we can go through the full range of motion, but with less stress from his body weight." Now maybe the trainer's hedging, but to me, if he can't run full speed straight forward with all his weight on the ground (which is what he was doing in the pool), he's a long way off. I haven't seen what he was doing with the elastic bands, but if all his weight was on his other foot when he was doing that, then that's not the same thing at all. In the video, his out of pool work consisted of stretching with the injured foot flat on the ground, barely leaning over the bad foot. That puts weight on the foot, but very little pressure or force on the injured part of the foot, and the pressure that IS applied is straight up and down. The danger is in flexing and twisting. He wasn't doing any of that.


I agree that it is a bit disheartening to hear he wasn't ready to run on hard ground, but I feel that they expect him to be able to make cuts once he makes it to hard ground.
It seemed to me that one of the biggest reasons to run him under water was to give him and his body confidence in his ability to run as anyone who has experienced an injury knows that you start to run differently to protect your injury which ends up either flaring up the old injury or bringing on a new one. Hopefully, he gets his full range of motion back once he sets foot on a basketball court, but it seems like he won't play until the NCAAT and even then, his time will be limited. Just getting him back might push this team to the S16 or E8 where hopefully he could have an impact by then.

If y'all are going to participate in the ad nauseam obsessing in this thread, at least read the whole thing. The video in question is nearly two weeks old, and in different parts of the same video, we have seen Kyrie running, with a resistance band, on hard ground, while dribbling. duke1983 has tried to point this out.


Keep in mind, this video was an extension from "Inside Duke Basketball with Coach K" which was originally aired on Feb. 13th. In that video Kyrie did a drill in which the trainer had the elastic band around his waist while Kyrie dribbled a basketball (while moving forward and pushing off of his toe) on the court of their practice facility. Seems pretty encouraging...

[grossbus]

FWIW, K just said on Rome that he does not expect KI to play again this season.

[dukelifer]

We now have 2 bubble losses and still only 1 win against a strong team in north carolina (maybe temple....but they're likely around an 8 or 9 seed)

We haven't played anybody that has proven we can get to a final four. Does that mean we can't? no, but there are teams out there that look an awful lot better than duke, OSU for instance...contender, yes, but strong contender? maybe if we win out the conference tourney

Who are the bubble losses?

Lunardi has St Johns as a 4 seed. Fla State as a 10 and Va Tech as a 9 seed. In his Bracket Duke has beaten Temple (7), Mich State (10), Butler (12), Kansas State (8), UNC (3), Marquette (10).

So we are probably a sweet 16 team and then it will get interesting depending on matchups and upsets. Once the tourney starts- a lot of teams that look good now can have one bad night.

[bjornolf]

If y'all are going to participate in the ad nauseam obsessing in this thread, at least read the whole thing. The video in question is nearly two weeks old, and in different parts of the same video, we have seen Kyrie running, with a resistance band, on hard ground, while dribbling. duke1983 has tried to point this out.

I did read the whole thing, and on that note...
You've seen him running? The quote you had from the other poster said "moving forward". I haven't seen the video in question, but moving forward and running are completely different animals. Differences equivalent to hundreds of pounds of pressure on the joint in question. Heck I don't even know what kind of floor the practice facility has. It might NOT be hard ground, at least not to the extent that a hardwood basketball floor is. Like I said, I was going by what the trainer said.

[dukelifer]

So if we repeat as ACC regular season and tournment champions as well as NCAA tournament champions without Kyrie, Duke fans will still wonder about "what if we Kyrie"? Hopefully, not as much if all that happens....;)

I would've loved to have seen him play a full season with Duke this year (if only to show the country and UNC fans that Duke would've been the one dominant team this year, a team I think would've matched up very well against the UNC team of 2009). But it just wasn't meant to be; and as easy it is to do, I think dwelling on what could've been isn't very productive and it takes away from what the team has accomplished this year.

I still think Kyrie will be back this season to play if his rehab goes well; and if and when he does return, I'm going to try my hardest not think about "what if". That will only depress me. :)

I claim but do not know that Kyrie had a big impact on Nolan. I believe he helped Nolan learn a few tricks of how to protect the ball when driving. Nolan showed a few moves that I had not seen before and ones that Kyrie had demonstrated in the few games Duke had him. I think Kyrie has been a coach of sorts and given Nolan's play- perhaps has had a big impact on this season- even in street clothes. Curry is capable of getting into a zone and I still think Singler will emerge from this shooting funk. If he does- Duke has a shot. But championships are won because the role players step up when needed. That did not happen at Va Tech.

[gcashwell]

FWIW, K just said on Rome that he does not expect KI to play again this season.

Did he mean season, or season plus tourney?

[Bluedog]

Did he mean season, or season plus tourney?

:confused: The tourney is part of the season. It's just not part of the "regular season." That's definitely not good to hear from Coach K...I'm still hoping for the best, but I'll admit my optimism is fading quickly.

[Gthoma2a]

I am not feeling confident that good things are in our future without Kyrie... I hate to say that, but it is true.

[dukebluesincebirth]

a link to the Inside Duke Coach K show that people keep mentioning... People keep saying he was pushing off his toe on the court in that video, but I can't find that video anywhere. Is it available?

[rhcpflea99]

These 2 Kyrie tweets and the trainer saying "he actually right where we expect him to be at this time maybe you know a step ahead" gives me hope that Kyrie will play this season.


"Look out for a @dukeblueplanet video coming soon of one of my rehab sessions...I'm definitely op(toe)mistic!!"2-21-11

"Rehab going really well...I'm getting that feeling back!!! Yessir" 2-19-11

[wgl1228]

I think he's back for the ncaa tourney. This rehab stuff wouldn't be as publicized I wouldn't think.

[sdotbarbee]

I did read the whole thing, and on that note...
You've seen him running? The quote you had from the other poster said "moving forward". I haven't seen the video in question, but moving forward and running are completely different animals. Differences equivalent to hundreds of pounds of pressure on the joint in question. Heck I don't even know what kind of floor the practice facility has. It might NOT be hard ground, at least not to the extent that a hardwood basketball floor is. Like I said, I was going by what the trainer said.

He was not running but he was on a "real" basketball court driving off the toe while dribbling a basketball with one trainer trying to holding him back with an elastic band and the other trainer is hitting him with a pad trying to push him back the other way. He is definitely pushing off the toe with force on a basketball court.

[HDB]

FWIW, K just said on Rome that he does not expect KI to play again this season.

Note that K didn't definitively say he won't be back. I am still holding out hope!

[jtelander]

FWIW, K just said on Rome that he does not expect KI to play again this season.

I trust and believe Coach K. I believe he says what he means, and means what he says.

Why do others not trust and totally believe him on this matter?

[HDB]

I trust and believe Coach K. I believe he says what he means, and means what he says.

Why do others not trust and totally believe him on this matter?

It has to do with the way other Duke injuries have been handled in the past (Brand, Boozer, etc.).

[sdotbarbee]

I trust and believe Coach K. I believe he says what he means, and means what he says.

Why do others not trust and totally believe him on this matter?

Because if he expects him really not to play this year then he would list him as out for the season. I would be shocked if he didn't play again this year, I think coach K likes having that in his back pocket that teams don't know and can't prepare for it when it does happen. It's a psychological game and he has always been great at things like that.

[CDu]

Because if he expects him really not to play this year then he would list him as out for the season. I would be shocked if he didn't play again this year, I think coach K likes having that in his back pocket that teams don't know and can't prepare for it when it does happen. It's a psychological game and he has always been great at things like that.

I'm not sure why you leap to that conclusion. Saying "I don't expect Irving to play this season" essentially means "the probability that he returns this season is somewhere between 0% and 50%." We can speculate on exactly where the probability falls, but it doesn't necessitate that the probability is 0%. Saying "he's out for the season" means "the probability that he returns this season is 0%." You don't say someone is out for the season unless you completely rule out any chance of return. The two are not equivalent statements.

[grossbus]

Actually, IIRC, he said "year" and I wrote season. Implication was not anytime this spring.

[Gthoma2a]

I love Kyrie, and he has the best outlook on things, but I am not sure he comes back this year. I know he is making leaps and bounds, but there is only a little over a month until the final four, and I don't know if we will make it that far without him.

Don't get me wrong, we are fully capable of it, but we keep forgetting who we need to be to do it. We can't stop looking to drive, and when we drive, we need to maintain our composure. We aren't a team who beats people up this year, and we aren't a team that can run a team off a court. We have to find a way to get a win streak against quality opposition and, since Kyrie was unjured, we haven't had that. We need to start letting other guys touch the ball more and not be afraid to drive into the paint instead of shoot around teams.

[sdotbarbee]

I'm not sure why you leap to that conclusion. Saying "I don't expect Irving to play this season" essentially means "the probability that he returns this season is somewhere between 0% and 50%." We can speculate on exactly where the probability falls, but it doesn't necessitate that the probability is 0%. Saying "he's out for the season" means "the probability that he returns this season is 0%." You don't say someone is out for the season unless you completely rule out any chance of return. The two are not equivalent statements.

I leap to that conclusion because of what he said about Brand and Boozer, plus from what they have said the toe was completely healed and he is rehab is moving along very well. If you want to be pessimistic that is fine but I am not, I think he comes back.

[fansudi]

if you really want to know when the rehab video was shot you can try to zoom in to sportscenter on TV in the background at around 1:00 mark, when he is getting his toe worked on. My computer won't let me zoom in enough to see scores and teams on the bottom of the tv screen. If you can see the score and teams you can figure out date of the video.

[m g]

if you really want to know when the rehab video was shot you can try to zoom in to sportscenter on TV in the background at around 1:00 mark, when he is getting his toe worked on. My computer won't let me zoom in enough to see scores and teams on the bottom of the tv screen. If you can see the score and teams you can figure out date of the video.

Didnt zoom but it looks like it says "NBA all star fan night carmelo"

[Cameron]

if you really want to know when the rehab video was shot you can try to zoom in to sportscenter on TV in the background at around 1:00 mark, when he is getting his toe worked on. My computer won't let me zoom in enough to see scores and teams on the bottom of the tv screen. If you can see the score and teams you can figure out date of the video.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Zaprudercamera.jpg

All right, ok, let's move away from the panel of keys, Abraham Zapruder. The Duke staff will take it from here.

I now think we've covered it all. Lol. ;)

[striker219]

Didnt zoom but it looks like it says "NBA all star fan night carmelo"

Yes, but all the way to the left it said 4:09 ET, so this definitely happened one day when there was a 4:09 pm in the eastern standard time zone.

Edit: Not sure if this is relevant or not, but I should also point out that the cars on the TV appear to be driving incredibly fast. I don't know exactly what that means, and again, I'm not sure if this is a critical detail or not, but it's good to have the extra information.

[El_Diablo]

All right, ok, let's move away from the panel of keys, Abraham Zapruder. The Duke staff will take it from here.

As you can see, the toe moves back, and to the left. Back, and to the left.

Back. And to the left.

[uh_no]

they have said the toe was completely healed

I missed that, where was that said?

[CDu]

I leap to that conclusion because of what he said about Brand and Boozer, plus from what they have said the toe was completely healed and he is rehab is moving along very well. If you want to be pessimistic that is fine but I am not, I think he comes back.

I think you missed my point. You said if Coach K expected that Irving won't come back, then he'd be out for the season. My response had nothing to do with pessimism or optimism. It's simply a fact. There's a difference between likely not to return and definitely out for the season. That was my point in my response to you.

Personally, I have no idea whether he'll return or not. But I don't think your statement made logical sense. You don't say someone is out for the season unless he's DEFINITELY out for the season. Saying you don't expect him back leaves the possibility for return but still leans towards the idea that he won't return.

[sdotbarbee]

I missed that, where was that said?

I am pretty sure that was the report when the cast came off. I also don't think you would start rehab until the injury had healed especially since they are so worried about his career which they should be.

[CLT Devil]

Debbie Downers you are!

I will go on record saying I expect him to be back, maybe even as early as Wednesday. I guess after having John Fox coach my NFL team for 8 years I am used to the little mind games played by not listing injuries or likelihood of playing. The staff has handled it different from Boozer and Brand partly because it's a different type injury, one that is hard to classify and thus hard to predict when will be healed, IMVHO.

I will remain optimistic until I have reason not to be, and the video does not sway me one way or the other, either do K's comments on TV. I have friends who used to work rehabbing Duke BBall players (tho not currently) and other friends who are in the Duke HOF and on the Athletic Board...their knowledge is no better than any else's here. One says time is running out while the other says a return to the court is sooner than most think. I say this only because both have close ties to the program yet their opinions are at opposite ends of the spectrum - nobody but the closest of close to the team apparently know.

I think there is a sense that the team has to have the mindset that they must win with who they have and Kyrie won't be there to 'save' the season...great to be a Dukie when we are defending champs with a great record and we feel like we need some help. Sure, who couldn't use a Kyrie?

[HDB]

I'm not sure why you leap to that conclusion. Saying "I don't expect Irving to play this season" essentially means "the probability that he returns this season is somewhere between 0% and 50%." We can speculate on exactly where the probability falls, but it doesn't necessitate that the probability is 0%. Saying "he's out for the season" means "the probability that he returns this season is 0%." You don't say someone is out for the season unless you completely rule out any chance of return. The two are not equivalent statements.

I have a different take on K's likely position on this situation. I believe he continues to say it is unlikely that Kyrie comes back all the way up to there being a 99% chance he will return. There is absolutely zero benefit to K "speculating" on his return. Thus, I think your conclusion that there is between a 0% and 50% chance that Kyrie returns based on K's latest statement is incorrect.

[Cameron]

As you can see, the toe moves back, and to the left. Back, and to the left.

Back. And to the left.

If you look closely at the videotape, the presence of the whirl bath in frame 3 is totally inconsistent with the "shot from the repository." (Does the Izod Center even have a respository?) Warm, foamy water doesn't heal a bullet wound. It tickles it. In fact, I have no idea how a shotgun wouldn't have entirely removed Kyrie's foot, which would have resulted in him having to lead us to a national championship on a hoverboard.

And I'm done. I am almost fatigued by this toe discussion. I really hope for the best for Kyrie and Kyrie only. First and foremost. This is his God-given talent we're talking about, and nobody else's. Success for the team comes second. With that said, at this point, if he could effectively protect his toe and play by wearing a Big Bird foot, then why the hell not? I thought Coach K was innovative.

http://freebirthdaytreatsblog.com/wp-admin/images/GoogleDoodleSesameBigBird.jpg

(BTW, sorry for the google advertising and lol at El_Diablo's quoted response.)

[CDu]

Thus, I think your conclusion that there is between a 0% and 50% chance that Kyrie returns based on K's latest statement is incorrect.

That may be and it may not be. I really don't have any idea what the actual probability of his return is. That wasn't the crux of my point.

My point was that you won't say "he's out for the season" until there is 0% chance of return. So saying "if K really doesn't expect Irving back, Irving would be out for the season" doesn't make logical sense.

[dukelifer]

That may be and it may not be. I really don't have any idea what the actual probability of his return is. That wasn't the crux of my point.

My point was that you won't say "he's out for the season" until there is 0% chance of return. So saying "if K really doesn't expect Irving back, Irving would be out for the season" doesn't make logical sense.

I agree that no one knows what is going to happen. He needs to get stronger - he needs to make sure he doesn't re injure the toe by overcompensating. As he says- he is really lucky to have such an outstanding group helping him get better. This is a process. I am sure his goal is to get back to the court this year- even if it is just to contribute in practice. But that will come when it comes. If he rushes- all the hard work will need to be redone.

[mph]

I think he's back for the ncaa tourney. This rehab stuff wouldn't be as publicized I wouldn't think.

I think the DBP video is primarily intended as a recruiting tool, not a foreshadowing of the rest of Kyrie's season. The message? We have state of the art facilities and a world class training staff who genuinely care about our student athletes. If you're an elite athlete who suffered an injury, where would you rather be?

[Kewlswim]

I think the DBP video is primarily intended as a recruiting tool, not a foreshadowing of the rest of Kyrie's season. The message? We have state of the art facilities and a world class training staff who genuinely care about our student athletes. If you're an elite athlete who suffered an injury, where would you rather be?

Hmmmm I'm injured and all I am getting is first class treatment, at least at Kentucky they would be paying me while rehabbing.

NOTE: This is a joke. All you Kentucky fans reading the board can lighten up. :D

[diveonthefloor]

Hmmmm I'm injured and all I am getting is first class treatment, at least at Kentucky they would be paying me while rehabbing.

NOTE: This is a joke. All you Kentucky fans reading the board can lighten up. :D

This post just reminded me of the fact that Kyrie is a serious student who (while rehabbing his injury) goes to class like a kid who wants to earn his Duke degree.

How many of Cal's 5-star recruits can say that?

[tecumseh]

Hmmmm I'm injured and all I am getting is first class treatment, at least at Kentucky they would be paying me while rehabbing.

NOTE: This is a joke. All you Kentucky fans reading the board can lighten up. :D

There is funny part of an old biography by Kareem where he is hanging in NYC with a Laker teammate who played for Kentucky. The guy excuses himself runs across the street then comes back to Jabber. The guy apologizes and says it was a big Kentucky booster he had to say " Hi " to. Jabber kids him that was probably the only time you met him when he did not give you money.

[tecumseh]

Hmmmm I'm injured and all I am getting is first class treatment, at least at Kentucky they would be paying me while rehabbing.

NOTE: This is a joke. All you Kentucky fans reading the board can lighten up. :D

It is too late sorry about the spelling better get to bed before I poke someones eye out

[richardjackson199]

Here's what I'm being told right now: There is still no timetable for Kyrie's return.

Unfortunately, given that K just said on the Jim Rome show that he does not expect Kyrie to play again this year (that sounds pretty clear), and given that Mike Corey is now telling us there is no timetable for his return, it's not looking good. It's March. For the first time, I don't believe he's coming back this year. It's very disappointing, but I don't see any more reason to be optimistic or hopeful about it. Please correct me if I'm missing something? Reality sucks sometimes. The sky is not falling - Kyrie continues to be a wonderful teammate, and has handled this better than could be imagined for an 18-year old. Duke has had a great season - with highlights like the 2nd half over UNC in Cameron. I hope there are more highlights to come. The road will be very difficult from here without Kyrie. But we have a legedary coach, some legendary players, and some other players with as much potential as on any other team. I'll be watching, hoping for the best, and cheering for Duke.

[HDB]

That may be and it may not be. I really don't have any idea what the actual probability of his return is. That wasn't the crux of my point.

My point was that you won't say "he's out for the season" until there is 0% chance of return. So saying "if K really doesn't expect Irving back, Irving would be out for the season" doesn't make logical sense.

Fair enough. My point is you won't hear K say he's coming back until there is a 100% chance it happens.

[KyDevilinIL]

I guess after having John Fox coach my NFL team for 8 years I am used to the little mind games played by not listing injuries or likelihood of playing. The staff has handled it different from Boozer and Brand partly because it's a different type injury, one that is hard to classify and thus hard to predict when will be healed, IMVHO.

I'm curious how situations like this, in your experience, were addressed internally. Are the players kept as much in the dark as the rest of the world for mental/preparation reasons? Or is the coach doing a "pay no attention to what I say to the media, we're looking at X date for X guy to return" routine? Now that I type that, I guess it probably varies depending on the situation.

[OldPhiKap]

Kentucky fans reading

Um . . . .

[Class of '94]

Unfortunately, given that K just said on the Jim Rome show that he does not expect Kyrie to play again this year (that sounds pretty clear), and given that Mike Corey is now telling us there is no timetable for his return, it's not looking good. It's March. For the first time, I don't believe he's coming back this year. It's very disappointing, but I don't see any more reason to be optimistic or hopeful about it. Please correct me if I'm missing something? Reality sucks sometimes. The sky is not falling - Kyrie continues to be a wonderful teammate, and has handled this better than could be imagined for an 18-year old. Duke has had a great season - with highlights like the 2nd half over UNC in Cameron. I hope there are more highlights to come. The road will be very difficult from here without Kyrie. But we have a legedary coach, some legendary players, and some other players with as much potential as on any other team. I'll be watching, hoping for the best, and cheering for Duke.

I think you might be reading too much into what Mike Corey recently posted. Mike simply said that there is "still no timetable" on Kyrie's return. His statement does not imply that the situation has changed because there has never been a timetable on Kyrie's return. If anything, I think Mike is trying to subtlely keep people from losing hope and going off the deep end by pointing out (in an earlier posting) that the DBP video was about a week old at the time of its release; this means that Kyrie has had more time to rehab and make further progress since the video. More over, I am choosing to interpret Mike's most recent posting as confirmation that there is still a possibility that Kyrie could play this season because nothing has changed from what we've heard before. And taking a glass half full approach to this situation, it could be possible that the reason the staff is being so guarded at this time is because maybe Kyrie is close to returning and the rehab is going really well; but they want to keep things quiet because they don't want to put any undue outside pressure (and influence) on Kyrie to return too soon. And rather than have his team and the fanbase look over their shoulders wondering if this is the game or that game in which Kyrie returns (although we as fans our doing just that ;)), he wants his team and the fans to focus on what they have and make the best out of it. Again, all of this is JMO; but until it is official that Kyrie is out for the rest of the season, I choose to go with this scenario.:)

[OldPhiKap]

There will be a point when Kyrie is able to play.

No one knows exactly when that that will be. Not K, not Kyrie, not the doctors.

We are all hopeful that it is before we run out of games, but who knows.

I am sure he is working as hard as he can to make it back, and I am also sure that the team is preparing to play with the guys we've got at present.

If he comes back this year at all, it's a very pleasant bonus.

[sdotbarbee]

I think you might be reading too much into what Mike Corey recently posted. Mike simply said that there is "still no timetable" on Kyrie's return. His statement does not imply that the situation has changed because there has never been a timetable on Kyrie's return. If anything, I think Mike is trying to subtlely keep people from losing hope and going off the deep end by pointing out (in an earlier posting) that the DBP video was about a week old at the time of its release; this means that Kyrie has had more time to rehab and make further progress since the video. More over, I am choosing to interpret Mike's most recent posting as confirmation that there is still a possibility that Kyrie could play this season because nothing has changed from what we've heard before. And taking a glass half full approach to this situation, it could be possible that the reason the staff is being so guarded at this time is because maybe Kyrie is close to returning and the rehab is going really well; but they want to keep things quiet because they don't want to put any undue outside pressure (and influence) on Kyrie to return too soon. And rather than have his team and the fanbase look over their shoulders wondering if this is the game or that game in which Kyrie returns (although we as fans our doing just that ;)), he wants his team and the fans to focus on what they have and make the best out of it. Again, all of this is JMO; but until it is official that Kyrie is out for the rest of the season, I choose to go wiith this scenario.:)

Well said and I feel the same way, too many people are hung up on the fact that they only showed KI in the pool. I am going on the video on Inside Duke Basketball and the recent tweets of KI himself to keep my spirits and hope up. Like you said, until they officially say KI is out for the season I am going to believe that he will come back at some point.

[jtelander]

Like you said, until they officially say KI is out for the season I am going to believe that he will come back at some point.

Lacking an official announcement, I wonder how long you will hold on to this belief? Sweet 16?
Final 4 ?
The last second of the Championship game?
:)

[airowe]

There will be a point when Kyrie is able to play.

No one knows exactly when that that will be. Not K, not Kyrie, not the doctors.

We are all hopeful that it is before we run out of games, but who knows.

I am sure he is working as hard as he can to make it back, and I am also sure that the team is preparing to play with the guys we've got at present.

If he comes back this year at all, it's a very pleasant bonus.

Well said.

To whoever said he may be back as early as tomorrow, that's not gonna happen. Greensboro is the absolute earliest we will see Kyrie playing basketball again, and even that might be too early.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Lacking an official announcement, I wonder how long you will hold on to this belief? Sweet 16?
Final 4 ?
The last second of the Championship game?
:)
That sounds reasonable. :cool:

[sdotbarbee]

Lacking an official announcement, I wonder how long you will hold on to this belief? Sweet 16?
Final 4 ?
The last second of the Championship game?
:)

I have to hold out hope, I have followed KI ever since he started at St. Pats, so I feel a little cheated that I only got to see him play 8 games in a Duke uniform. I also think it will be very difficult to win another title without him so until coach K says he is out for the season, whether it's the Sweet 16 or Final four I will hold out hope.:)

[MulletMan]

It makes me sad that so many Duke fans have lost this season to worrying about Kyrie Irving's toe and have not enjoyed watching this year's team. It also makes me sad that people seem to be willing to give up on the season because a player who played in 8 non-conference games had been anointed the savior-of-the-repeat.

Ridiculous.

Listen, it is what it is. The moment that last season ended people started talking about repeats and even threepeats. Many dissenting opinions pointed out that its tough to repeat, and that many things, including injuries can derail title runs. People are lamenting the lack of Irving on this team like it prohibited a great season or another deep run in the NCAA tournament. Aside from Jumbo... was there any one who truly believed that Duke was going to the Final Four last year? Really... truly believed it? So why so glum regarding this season? We've got two all-American seniors and I'll damn well bet you that even with Kyrie Irving in the line up Nolan and Kyle were going to be the keys to a deep tourney run.

And they still will be.

So enjoy the ride.

[Acymetric]

It makes me sad that so many Duke fans have lost this season to worrying about Kyrie Irving's toe and have not enjoyed watching this year's team. It also makes me sad that people seem to be willing to give up on the season because a player who played in 8 non-conference games had been anointed the savior-of-the-repeat.

Ridiculous.

Listen, it is what it is. The moment that last season ended people started talking about repeats and even threepeats. Many dissenting opinions pointed out that its tough to repeat, and that many things, including injuries can derail title runs. People are lamenting the lack of Irving on this team like it prohibited a great season or another deep run in the NCAA tournament. Aside from Jumbo... was there any one who truly believed that Duke was going to the Final Four last year? Really... truly believed it? So why so glum regarding this season? We've got two all-American seniors and I'll damn well bet you that even with Kyrie Irving in the line up Nolan and Kyle were going to be the keys to a deep tourney run.

And they still will be.

So enjoy the ride.

I've seen this sentiment on the board a few times, and while I don't really fall into the camp that worries about Kyrie's toe, I don't necessarily see why people assume that obsessing over his recovery as something that conflicts with enjoying the season as it happens. I think its fairly likely that most of the people in this thread have the mental capacity to do both.

Losing Irving was rough, and until there's something definitive either way people are going to talk about it. How weird would it be if people just stopped talking about the rehab and possible return of one of their team's 3 best players?