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uh_no
02-04-2011, 10:54 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6089805

Another transfer out of the UNC program!

I hope they can recover from this and still pull together a decent season, for the sake of enjoying beating them 2+ times this year.

KyDevilinIL
02-04-2011, 10:59 AM
Well this is an intriguing development.

Devil07
02-04-2011, 11:03 AM
Very interesting development. There had been rumors that he may transfer after last season, so this shouldn't come as a total shock despite the very odd timing of it. That being said, I'm not entirely sure how this effects the heels.

On the one hand this puts an immense amount of pressure on Marshall, who now has to run the entire show by himself. Can he handle running the point without LD2 there to spot him? LD2 actually has played pretty well in the backup role, so this no doubt hurts the heels from a pure basketball standpoint. I think the bigger variable though is team chemistry. If LD2's attitude has been part of their problem the past two years then this ultimately could help them. This makes even clearer that the team now belongs to the young guys, and I could see this being an event that brings the team closer together. Is that enough to overcome the large hole this leaves at the PG position? I'm not really sure, but I think it is possible that this isn't all terrible news for the heels.

August West
02-04-2011, 11:03 AM
Wow, I guess he didn't like losing his starting job and decided to take his ball and go home. Of course all the kerlina fans throwing him under the bus for the last year and a half probably didn't help either. AW.

Duvall
02-04-2011, 11:04 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6089805

Another transfer out of the UNC program!

Unpossible. Transfers only happen at Duke.

This is a sad day for Duke basketball. At least we'll always have this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCi6NnGd7aQ).

Huh?
02-04-2011, 11:06 AM
Man that was fast getting this up here. What a loser this guy is, leaving mid-season. Lose your starting job and just quit.

Duvall
02-04-2011, 11:08 AM
Man that was fast getting this up here. What a loser this guy is, leaving mid-season. Lose your starting job and just quit.

That's the real question - who would *want* a kid that would transfer in February? It isn't even an end of fall semester transfer - that at least makes academic sense.

Huh?
02-04-2011, 11:10 AM
That's the real question - who would *want* a kind that would transfer in February? It isn't even an end of fall semester transfer - that at least makes academic sense.

Concordia University

Olympic Fan
02-04-2011, 11:11 AM
A couple of weeks ago, when UNC was struggling and nobody could understand why Coach Williams insisted on starting Drew ahead of Marshall, I was told by an UNC insider that the reason was that Roy was afraid that if he benched Drew for Marshall that he would lose Drew ... apparently that fear was real.

It's the timing that's shocking -- Drew can't help himself or his reputation by leaving the team in midseason ... I'm not sure what he gains.

If he leaves after the first semester, okay ... that makes sense -- he could be eligible at a new school in December of next year. But leaving now doesn't help a bit -- he still won't be able to play at another Division 1 school until the start of the 2012-13 season anyway. If he were unhappy, he should have left at the end of the season.

As it is, he sits out the rest of this season, all of next season, then plays one more season (2012-13). Crazy.

And the craziest thing is that he was starting to play well off the bench. The BC game Tuesday night might have been the best game he's played at UNC.

The more I think about it (and I'm thinking as I type this), there's got to be more to it than mere unhappiness over losing his starting job or seeing his playing time fall (he was still getting 20-plus minutes a game). I haven't got a clue what's going on, but it sounds like something ugly behind the scenes.

Dev11
02-04-2011, 11:12 AM
That's the real question - who would *want* a kind that would transfer in February? It isn't even an end of fall semester transfer - that at least makes academic sense.

More than that, it makes less competitive sense. When Olek transferred last year after finals in December, he started his transfer-sit-out countdown so he could start playing at the end first semester this year in Nevada. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but Drew loses the rest of this season and all the way through next season, too, because he played for a month of the spring semester.

hurleyfor3
02-04-2011, 11:13 AM
Thread title changed for clarity.


That's the real question - who would *want* a kind that would transfer in February? It isn't even an end of fall semester transfer - that at least makes academic sense.

Calipari?

PADukeMom
02-04-2011, 11:13 AM
So this kid wouldn't be allowed to play again until 2013??? Or is my math off?

Huh?
02-04-2011, 11:15 AM
More than that, it makes less competitive sense. When Olek transferred last year after finals in December, he started his transfer-sit-out countdown so he could start playing at the end first semester this year in Nevada. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but Drew loses the rest of this season and all the way through next season, too, because he played for a month of the spring semester.

Thats Correct.

Saratoga2
02-04-2011, 11:21 AM
That's the real question - who would *want* a kid that would transfer in February? It isn't even an end of fall semester transfer - that at least makes academic sense.

I would caution those who would throw this kid to the wolves to wait a while and find out why it is really happening. The Jay Cutler fans from Chicago went off the deep edge only to find out there were good reasons he didn't play. Maybe there are good but undisclosed reasons for Drew to transfer.

jdj4duke
02-04-2011, 11:21 AM
IC musings should provide ample amusement for the rest of a rainy day.

stillcrazie
02-04-2011, 11:24 AM
Do they have a decent backup for Marshall?

OldPhiKap
02-04-2011, 11:24 AM
IC musings should provide ample amusement for the rest of a rainy day.


There's already a thread about how to use his scholarship.

Stepping over the bodies while they're still warm. THAT's the "Carolina Way"

Dev11
02-04-2011, 11:24 AM
Remember a year ago when people here were all jazzed up about the fact that Tyler was kicking Kendall Marshall all around the gym as high school seniors, but their rivalry would likely have to be on the back burner this year because Drew and Kyrie were running the point at their schools? Hello, Feb 9 subplot!

sandinmyshoes
02-04-2011, 11:24 AM
A couple of weeks ago, when UNC was struggling and nobody could understand why Coach Williams insisted on starting Drew ahead of Marshall, I was told by an UNC insider that the reason was that Roy was afraid that if he benched Drew for Marshall that he would lose Drew ... apparently that fear was real.

It's the timing that's shocking -- Drew can't help himself or his reputation by leaving the team in midseason ... I'm not sure what he gains.

If he leaves after the first semester, okay ... that makes sense -- he could be eligible at a new school in December of next year. But leaving now doesn't help a bit -- he still won't be able to play at another Division 1 school until the start of the 2012-13 season anyway. If he were unhappy, he should have left at the end of the season.

As it is, he sits out the rest of this season, all of next season, then plays one more season (2012-13). Crazy.

And the craziest thing is that he was starting to play well off the bench. The BC game Tuesday night might have been the best game he's played at UNC.

The more I think about it (and I'm thinking as I type this), there's got to be more to it than mere unhappiness over losing his starting job or seeing his playing time fall (he was still getting 20-plus minutes a game). I haven't got a clue what's going on, but it sounds like something ugly behind the scenes.

This transfer, as noted, might help their chemistry, but Drew was a good defensive player. How it will work out will depend on how their other players step up, especially Strickland, who will have to back up Marshall.

swood1000
02-04-2011, 11:25 AM
It could be Roy engineering the removal of a source of disharmony. Damn.


Drew the Deuce was a lightening rod for argument and controversy last season. His propensity to turn the ball over, poor free throw shooting, and rumors of transfer all ignited fierce debate on internet message boards. Furthermore, at times he appeared to be at odds with the coaching staff and appeared to lack intensity.http://viewfromthestudentsection.blogspot.com/2010/10/burning-questions-for-2010-2011-unc.html

OldPhiKap
02-04-2011, 11:25 AM
Do they have a decent backup for Marshall?

No, nor one in the incoming class.

Duvall
02-04-2011, 11:29 AM
I would caution those who would throw this kid to the wolves to wait a while and find out why it is really happening. The Jay Cutler fans from Chicago went off the deep edge only to find out there were good reasons he didn't play. Maybe there are good but undisclosed reasons for Drew to transfer.

A fair point. The possibility exists that this transfer may have nothing to do with basketball.

CrazieDUMB
02-04-2011, 11:50 AM
I'm kind of sad about this - as a Duke fan I really liked seeing Drew II in the UNC lineup

jimsumner
02-04-2011, 11:58 AM
No, nor one in the incoming class.

Strickland likely becomes the back-up point guard.

OldPhiKap
02-04-2011, 12:05 PM
Strickland likely becomes the back-up point guard.

Yup. Which is saying the same thing I'm saying.

Maybe they'll get a transfer a-la Knox.

Of course, we didn't have a true pg last year or between Kyrie's injury and return this year. So it can be overcome. But harder to prevail with a young team I think.

Vincetaylor
02-04-2011, 12:14 PM
I congratulate him for having the courage to quit and move his life in a different direction. The timing mid-season obviously isn't great, but if he was that unhappy then he needed to make a change.

sagegrouse
02-04-2011, 12:14 PM
Larry Drew II quit on his team -- as in "Q-U-I-T." He was playing 20+ minutes per game for a national power that is doing quite well these days (unfortunately, in my view). And he played well the last couple of games. I can't imagine Papa Drew thinks this is good for his son. I can't imagine that it would be good for the psyche of the Carolina team. And I can't imagine it would be good for Drew II over the long haul.

sagegrouse

dukebsbll14
02-04-2011, 12:31 PM
Larry Drew II quit on his team -- as in "Q-U-I-T." He was playing 20+ minutes per game for a national power that is doing quite well these days (unfortunately, in my view). And he played well the last couple of games. I can't imagine Papa Drew thinks this is good for his son. I can't imagine that it would be good for the psyche of the Carolina team. And I can't imagine it would be good for Drew II over the long haul.

sagegrouse

Well, I think the UNC fanbase had already quit on Larry. Sure we criticize our players, but some of the things I've seen said about him on boards are just wrong. Support your guys.

tb3
02-04-2011, 12:33 PM
perhaps he is leaving to pursue his music career

uh_no
02-04-2011, 12:34 PM
perhaps he is leaving to pursue his music career

He's going to be JJ's DJ :P

4decadedukie
02-04-2011, 12:38 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6089805

I hope they can recover from this and still pull together a decent season, for the sake of enjoying beating them 2+ times this year.

Not, I; I will be VERY pleased to defeat UNC-CH twice in regular season play (and, potentially, again in the ACC Tournament). If Drew II's departure and the concomitant, short-term impact on team cohesion and effectiveness makes this easier, more likely, and more devastating, then I am ALL FOR IT. In fact, another NIT bid for the 'heels would not upset me in the least.

Rudy
02-04-2011, 12:38 PM
Larry Drew II quit on his team -- as in "Q-U-I-T." He was playing 20+ minutes per game for a national power that is doing quite well these days (unfortunately, in my view). And he played well the last couple of games. I can't imagine Papa Drew thinks this is good for his son. I can't imagine that it would be good for the psyche of the Carolina team. And I can't imagine it would be good for Drew II over the long haul.

sagegrouse

Agreed and this leads me to think, as another poster already said, that there may be something else involved. Just to quit because you lost your starting job and many of your team's fans are down on you would be a sign of bad character and monumentally stupid.

MChambers
02-04-2011, 12:41 PM
This hurts Kerlina's defense, because Marshall isn't the quickest of point guards.

We'll see how Strickland is at the point. I think he's up to the job defensively, but offensively he can be a little erratic.

CharlestonDevil
02-04-2011, 12:53 PM
Marshall, Strickland, and Bullock

vs.

Nolan/Dre/Seth/Tyler and maybe Kyrie

Can Feb 9th PLEASE be tomorrow??????

4decadedukie
02-04-2011, 12:54 PM
Larry Drew II quit on his team -- as in "Q-U-I-T." He was playing 20+ minutes per game for a national power that is doing quite well these days (unfortunately, in my view). And he played well the last couple of games. I can't imagine Papa Drew thinks this is good for his son. I can't imagine that it would be good for the psyche of the Carolina team. And I can't imagine it would be good for Drew II over the long haul.

sagegrouse


For a player with the potential and the background of Drew II to quit NOW, when the ‘Heels finally appeared to be successfully regrouping, in the absolute center of critical ACC play that will determine post-season prospects, and when he seems -- at long last -- to be making real contributions to the team, is simply astonishing. IMHO, it indicates many things about Drew II’s character that are not at all positive. The essential question, however, is will the team and the program quickly rebound after losing a potentially divisive player, or does the “dry rot” run deeper, possibly including Coach Williams' leadership and stewardship?

monkey
02-04-2011, 12:56 PM
While leaving Carolina thin at point guard, this smells to me like addition by subtraction for Carolina. I agree with the others who have noted this is a sad day for Duke. On the other hand, perhaps the workload will be too much for the freshman Marshall, who will wear down the stretch ... leading to a fine early post-season exit for the Tar Heels?

billyj
02-04-2011, 01:02 PM
This just might make UNC a better team. Guy is a nut case, turnover jesus, and brick artist, overall everything I want in a UNC point guard. :cool:

sporthenry
02-04-2011, 01:05 PM
I think it will be interesting to see how they rebound from this. It could be a rallying point for the whole team to come together or it could break all the chemistry they were developing. Marshall will obviously see an increase in minutes but Roy seems to be slowly developing the kid so I'd say 25 minutes is more realistic than 30 minutes. Strickland might see a little increase in minutes but is already at 25 and who knows how good he will be at the point. Hopefully, he struggles trying to stay involved in the offense as well as getting others involved. But I guess the real consequences come with the extra 15 or so minutes between Bullock and McDonald. Can they handle the extra workload and will they be as efficient playing those extra minutes?

ChicagoHeel
02-04-2011, 01:09 PM
I agree with those who are hesitant to leap to any conclusions until we have more information about the reason for the change. If it does turn out that he is leaving b/c he lost his starting position, then good riddance, but I would not be surprised if something else were going on. The timing is certainly unusual- as was the case with the Wear twins.

His loss will definitely hurt. He was a servicable back-up who much was much less prone to turnovers when he didn't have the pressure of being the main engine for the offense. Plus, he played good defense. Strickland really struggled as a PG and we have no one coming in next year. Ugh.

sporthenry
02-04-2011, 01:13 PM
And I think some people underestimate Drew and bought way too much into his criticisms. Sure, UNC fans criticized him a lot but looking at their response, many of their levelheaded fans seem to realize that this is truly a loss. His scoring and shooting wasn't great but he was 3rd in A/TO in ACC play (For comparison Nolan leads in assists but is nowhere to be found in A/TO). Marshall is ahead of him in assists but behind in A/TO which means that both Marshall and Smith commit more TO's than Drew does. And it isn't a straight swap as somebody else needs to pick up Drew's minutes. Having a pass first PG as both seemed to be was working out with the scoring load being on the backs of Zeller, Henson, Barnes, Strickland, Bullock, and McDonald. Now it seems one of them, probably Strickland will lose some offensive efficiency and it remains to be seen what type of PG he will be.

ChicagoHeel
02-04-2011, 01:14 PM
Maybe he had some sort of revelation following the terrifying flight to Miami. He did tweet something about how the experience was one that would make you reexamine your life- or something to that effect.

mkirsh
02-04-2011, 01:19 PM
Maybe he heard through the grapevine that Kyrie's toe evaluation was way better than expected and he's getting out of town now to save himself the embarrassment of a head to head matchup. One can only hope.

superdave
02-04-2011, 01:23 PM
LDII was a decent defender and shooter. He had his moments the past year or so but was never consistent, which is pretty much emblematic of the entire team. But to quit now, for any reason, is bad. You either ride it out for 6 more weeks or you quit basketball altogether, but you dont quit in Feb to transfer. I dont care what the reason is, that's being a bad teammate. You transfer either in Dec or April/May.

LDII shot 6-29 on 3s for the season (.207) while Marshall is 7-18 (.389). Both are averaging around 4 ppg and 4 apg. This would seem like an upgrade, but playing 35 minutes per game is likely to hurt Marshall's efficiency. I think the upgrade is likely to be in chemistry though.

Nrrrrvous
02-04-2011, 01:25 PM
Maybe he heard through the grapevine that Kyrie's toe evaluation was way better than expected and he's getting out of town now to save himself the embarrassment of a head to head matchup. One can only hope.

Quote of the Day...

That's definitely the story I'm going with!:D

gam7
02-04-2011, 01:25 PM
If this is a basketball-related departure, contrast it with Greg Paulus's attitude and continued buy-in one he lost his starting spot. Greg may have been limited as a player but you have to respect his attitude and reaction to being benched.

weezie
02-04-2011, 01:27 PM
turnover jesus

What's a "turnover jesus"?

rsvman
02-04-2011, 01:28 PM
Maybe he had some sort of revelation following the terrifying flight to Miami. He did tweet something about how the experience was one that would make you reexamine your life- or something to that effect.

I suppose this is possible, but if he intends to play for another team at any time there is no way to escape the "frequent flyer" aspect of college basketball.

bl33dblu3
02-04-2011, 01:33 PM
I'm kind of sad about this - as a Duke fan I really liked seeing Drew II in the UNC lineup

who will give the rock to third row fans?
maybe the university of phoenix has an opening

OldPhiKap
02-04-2011, 01:34 PM
The press releases (available on IC) seem to support that the family was heavily involved in the decision. LD II also references (not an exact quote) that he was sorry he did not meet the expectations of the fanbase.

Shows again why it is important to remember that kids hear and read the trash fans fling around without much thought.

Another article (not the press releases) indicates that Roy was "blindsided" by the news from LD I that LD II was leaving. FWIW.

ChicagoHeel
02-04-2011, 01:36 PM
LD II's statement:

"...I'd like to thank the coaching staff for giving me the opportunity to play at one of the nation's top colleges in UNC, and my teammates for their support as well. It is unfortunate my career didn't meet expectations in Chapel Hill, however I do look forward to continuing my collegiate and athletic career in the near future."

That second sentence seems revealing. Either the criticism, or his own sense of inadequacy, wore him down. If so, I can understand, but I don't think it justifies abandoning your teammates in the middle of a campaign.

weezie
02-04-2011, 01:40 PM
I understand those who accuse JDII of being a "quitter" but I disagree. If your heart is breaking, and possibly his was, why wait?
We're still talking about a 19-20 year old man. Few of us can relate to that kind of disappointment, pain and humiliation.

gumbomoop
02-04-2011, 01:42 PM
Having been very critical of Roy's emotional weirdness, itself an embarrassment to sensible Heels, I credit him both for bowing to the obvious in starting Marshall and for keeping LDII's demotion from leading to bad chemistry vibes. It's even possible that one should credit LDII himself for accepting a lesser role.

It appears that I spoke too soon. How to explain my obtuseness? Here it is: I said, "It's... possible...." So I'm in the clear.


A couple of weeks ago, when UNC was struggling and nobody could understand why Coach Williams insisted on starting Drew ahead of Marshall, I was told by an UNC insider that the reason was that Roy was afraid that if he benched Drew for Marshall that he would lose Drew ... apparently that fear was real.

I haven't got a clue what's going on, but it sounds like something ugly behind the scenes.

Since the beginning of the season,I have subscribed to the theory referred to by OF in the above first paragraph. All sorts of rumors this past summer re LDII's abandoning CH during the summer. Rumors he wanted to transfer last spring. A soap opera in the making. As it seemed clear to me, early this season, that Marshall was such a good passer and Drew's superior as field general - and further that it also seemed clear to UNC fans - it seemed likely that the soap opera would grow, with attendant bad chemistry. Roy was holding off starting Marshall, thought I, pretty cynically [me, about Roy], until after the first semester, thinking [me, channeling Roy] that once Drew stuck around for the second semester, he'd have to put off any further thoughts of transferring at least until season's end, possibly forever. No one would leave in the middle of the second semester; have to sit out way, way too long. Soap opera defused.

But [here OF's 2d paragraph is relevant] the soap opera wasn't defused at all. I'm guessing Barnes and Bullock in particular couldn't quite disguise their preference for Marshall. Marshall, not Drew, is their buddy, not to mention the vastly more relevant fact that Marshall gets the ball to shooters when and where they want it. Barnes and Bullock are shooters.

Although Drew's departure heightens the soap opera on the eve of the first of several big games for the Heels, it could well be addition by subtraction, at least on O. It further limits Roy's options for mass substitutions, which sure didn't seem to be working too well earlier in the season.

In any game the rest of this season- and quite possibly next, as UNC has no incoming PG - in which Strickland underwhelms as Marshall's backup, we should expect that Roy will refer, obliquely, to Drew, and explicitly to... Kyrie.

swood1000
02-04-2011, 01:48 PM
The press releases (available on IC) seem to support that the family was heavily involved in the decision. LD II also references (not an exact quote) that he was sorry he did not meet the expectations of the fanbase.

Shows again why it is important to remember that kids hear and read the trash fans fling around without much thought.

Another article (not the press releases) indicates that Roy was "blindsided" by the news from LD I that LD II was leaving. FWIW.
If the episode of the Wear twins is any indication Roy will have a way of squelching anything approaching a full disclosure here.

sporthenry
02-04-2011, 01:49 PM
Again, LDII was 3rd in the league in A/TO. He averaged a TO every 15.33 minutes of play compared to Nolan every 13.13 minutes (I know there are other things in play for Nolan but he still turns it over more than Drew does), or Marshall who averages a TO every 9.6 minutes. In addition, Marshall has 6 steals to Drew's 10 in league play while Marshall is averaging 5.7 points to Drew's 3.1 points.

And perhaps more condemning news, since taking over the starting job, KM has only seen his minutes go up less than .75 minutes while Drews went down less than .5 minutes however the efficiencies have changed dramatically. Perhaps KM padded his stats against team's reserves b/c his assists have dipped from 5.66 in non-starts to 4.25 while his TO's have gone up from 1.33 to 2.75 (sure it is a small sample but the gap is fairly large not to mention he is a freshman potentially hitting a wall). His scoring has also dropped from 6 to 5.5. Meanwhile, Drew has gone up as he is only averaging 1 TO a game compared to 4.75 assists and points went up from 2.66 to 3.5.

Maybe it is a bit of an over analysis but since taking over the starting job, KM averages a turnover every 7.73 minutes compraed to Drew averaging 1 every 19.25 minutes in KM's starts.

miramar
02-04-2011, 02:11 PM
Concordia University

LOL.

Amazingly enough, TK is shooting 45%, but only 34% on threes. I always wondered about his athleticism and defense, but on threes I thought he was going to be JJ with more range. My mistake.

http://www.cuieagles.com/stats/2010-11/Basketball%20(M)/teamcume.htm

brevity
02-04-2011, 02:14 PM
What's a "turnover jesus"?

The nickname for the Notre Dame student section on the defensive end.

Back to Drew: I think you all have it wrong. Imagine a world (a parallel, Twilight Zone world, maybe) where you wake up one morning and realize you've been wearing the wrong shade of blue. You've been maligned by your own fans for more than one season, lost your tenuous (some might say fictional) grasp on a starting job, and can't get rid of the taste of tire rubber in your mouth from your head coach's repeated deflecting actions. You'd want to get out of that situation immediately, right? No matter how awkward the timing may be?

So let me be the first to congratulate Mr. Drew on coming to his senses.

Rudy
02-04-2011, 02:20 PM
I understand those who accuse JDII of being a "quitter" but I disagree. If your heart is breaking, and possibly his was, why wait?
We're still talking about a 19-20 year old man. Few of us can relate to that kind of disappointment, pain and humiliation.

I feel for the kid, even if his disappointment is the only reason he's leaving. However, life is full of disappointments even at the highest level. Think of John McCain or even Al Gore, for pete's sake. The right thing to do is to suck it up, learn what you can from the experience and consider the character it can build to strive under adversity.

If he wanted to play somewhere else the thing to do would have been to play out the season, support his team as best he could and continue to strive to get better. Oh, yeah and continue his free college education while he's at it. Quitting now does nothing to improve his ability or to improve his standing to go to another program. It's selfish and self-destructive. No college is going to give him a scholarship to sit one year and play one year. He might as well sulk off and play professionally in Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he ends up doing.


Roy was holding off starting Marshall, thought I, pretty cynically [me, about Roy], until after the first semester, thinking [me, channeling Roy] that once Drew stuck around for the second semester, he'd have to put off any further thoughts of transferring at least until season's end, possibly forever. No one would leave in the middle of the second semester; have to sit out way, way too long. Soap opera defused.
Makes sense to me, particularly if LD had stopped listening to Roy's advice. Maybe that thinking would be self-serving for the coach but had it worked it would also have served the kid better than what happened.

ChicagoHeel
02-04-2011, 02:27 PM
I am a little dubious that Roy purposely held off benching LD II as some sort of nefarious trick to keep him from transferring. A constant complaint of UNC fans about Roy is that he is slow to bench under-performing players with seniority (a complaint we used to make about Dean Smith too). Everyone was going nuts last year when Ginyard kept starting. It was most likely Roy's stubbornness combined with his concern about the effect benching would have on LDII's play- and the team itself- that explains his unwillingness to start Marshall.

timmy c
02-04-2011, 02:40 PM
My first thoughts are complete conjecture but i thought i'd share anyways...

The timing is very interesting. The next two UNC games will be the toughest part of their conference schedule - vs. Florida St., @ Duke. If UNC goes 0-2, LDII could make the narcissistic suggestion that they needed him and never appreciated him.

IBleedBlue
02-04-2011, 02:41 PM
UNC fans always point out that Nolan plays heavy minutes. Now, we will see how they will handle the PG minutes and resposibilities with Kendall. Now, he has to take care of offense and defense. This will put a lot of pressure on him...

striker219
02-04-2011, 02:57 PM
I am a little dubious that Roy purposely held off benching LD II as some sort of nefarious trick to keep him from transferring. A constant complaint of UNC fans about Roy is that he is slow to bench under-performing players with seniority (a complaint we used to make about Dean Smith too). Everyone was going nuts last year when Ginyard kept starting. It was most likely Roy's stubbornness combined with his concern about the effect benching would have on LDII's play- and the team itself- that explains his unwillingness to start Marshall.

I'm not so sure. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Drew's family put more than a little pressure on Roy regarding starting/playing time. There has been a lot of internet chatter to that effect for quite some time, and though strangers on the internet aren't always the best source of information (shocker, I know), there have been other signs. The Drew family has more money and more power in the basketball community than most noisy parents. They also have connections that most people don't have, and they have been vocal.

Heck, didn't Roy even make a comment about giving playing time to someone who has a ton of family in the stands after the GT game? The same GT game that came a day after the team went to a Hawks game as guests of Larry Drew Sr.? The same GT game where it was rumored that Larry Sr. bought 30-ish tickets for the whole Drew family to attend.

That said, although the transition may be rocky I have a feeling that both Drew and UNC will be better off after all is said and done. Drew II really isn't that bad a player, he just doesn't seem to fit with the style of play that Roy wants to run and doesn't seem like he has much of a connection with his teammates. I wouldn't be shocked, assuming he finds the right program to join, if Drew had a very successful senior season somewhere. First, it takes the Carolina pressure and spotlight off of him. He just needs to find a coach that likes to slow down the game and execute a lot of set plays in the half court and I think he could do just fine. He'll never be an All-American, but I think a lot of Carolina fans will be surprised at what he can do in the right setting.

And this probably takes a lot of pressure of Roy, and the team for that matter. If they crash and burn now they can blame it on the mid-season defection of their previously starting PG. If nothing else it certainly focuses the ire of the Carolina fan base in a different direction, for a little while at least.

gumbomoop
02-04-2011, 03:27 PM
I am a little dubious that Roy purposely held off benching LD II as some sort of nefarious trick to keep him from transferring. A constant complaint of UNC fans about Roy is that he is slow to bench under-performing players with seniority (a complaint we used to make about Dean Smith too). Everyone was going nuts last year when Ginyard kept starting. It was most likely Roy's stubbornness combined with his concern about the effect benching would have on LDII's play- and the team itself- that explains his unwillingness to start Marshall.

As one who subscribes to the "nefarious trick" theory, I concede that this theory - by itself - wouldn't suffice to explain Roy's hesitance in making a move that seemed so obviously necessary. I further concede that there's a difference between this speculative theory and the less-speculative reference to Roy's likely concern that benching would have a palpable, and palpably bad, effect on Drew's play.

But they're hardly mutually incompatible. We know Roy has been stubborn, expressing petulant irritation on more than one occasion about critiques of his ways. But we also have multiple reports of Drew's unhappiness at the end of last season, and particularly about feeling blamed for how badly the season went. We know he left CH last summer to train on his own. We also have the eye test, by which I mean Drew's blank expression when on the bench and on camera. Not a happy fellow, or so it looked, every time. I cannot remember an exception. I hope he had some good times playing for UNC; you couldn't tell it by looking at him for the past season and a half.

Maybe all this constitutes nothing more than circumstantial evidence that Drew was very unhappy to have to return to CH. So, although "nefarious trick" would be one way for a cynic such as I to speculate about Roy's timing in belatedly turning to Marshall, one might, less cynically, simply point to the fact that Roy had a very fragile young man to deal with, in a season that seemed ominously on the verge of another disappointment. Rather than "nefarious," therefore, maybe Roy was simply being, for several reasons, "practical" [I mean this literally, not sarcastically], hedging as long as possible against a decision that seemed virtually inevitable.

So, partially accepting your corrective, I wouldn't contend that one has to depend solely on Roy's "nefariousness" to account for his handling of the Drew problem. But I'm unwilling to concede that it's unthinkable for Roy to have worried that the unhappy and fragile Larry Drew might bolt. The possibility of Drew's bolting seems, rather, to have been something of a constant, either as background noise or as a central plot line to the soap opera in CH.

MChambers
02-04-2011, 03:39 PM
And this probably takes a lot of pressure of Roy, and the team for that matter. If they crash and burn now they can blame it on the mid-season defection of their previously starting PG. If nothing else it certainly focuses the ire of the Carolina fan base in a different direction, for a little while at least.
I agree with most of your post, but if Carolina crashes and burns, won't the faithful blame Roy? Can't they claim the Drew situation should have been resolved in the offseason?

camion
02-04-2011, 03:46 PM
I agree with most of your post, but if Carolina crashes and burns, won't the faithful blame Roy? Can't they claim the Drew situation should have been resolved in the offseason?

Applying logic to Carolina fandom is illogical.

tommy
02-04-2011, 03:52 PM
I congratulate him for having the courage to quit . . .

The courage to quit? Huh? Quitting is what you do when you don't have the courage to tough it out in difficult times, when you don't have the courage to put your nose to the grindstone and work, and make yourself into a better player and a better teammate, and when you don't have the courage to say to your teammates and coach, "I wish I was playing more (or whatever his problem with the team is) but I'm a Tar Heel. I'm going to do everything I can, whether I'm playing or supporting the other guys, to help this team win games. However you guys need me." That's with someone with character would do. Not bail in mid-season.

tommy
02-04-2011, 03:55 PM
The press releases (available on IC) seem to support that the family was heavily involved in the decision. LD II also references (not an exact quote) that he was sorry he did not meet the expectations of the fanbase.

Shows again why it is important to remember that kids hear and read the trash fans fling around without much thought.

Another article (not the press releases) indicates that Roy was "blindsided" by the news from LD I that LD II was leaving. FWIW.

IIRC, Roy was "blindsided" by the Wears' decision to transfer too, wasn't he? What does this say about how in tune Roy is with what is going on with his players and with their families? Does he care? Do they not trust him or think enough of him to let him in on what is happening, what they're thinking, what they're feeling about how their experience in Chapel Hill is going?

Or is he just full of it, he knew this was coming, and he's just going with the "blindsided" thing for some sort of PR reasons? I don't know, but none of these possibilities say much for him.

Kimist
02-04-2011, 03:58 PM
There is a master plan at work here.

Mr. Drew I will soon me named as the new head basketball coach of NC State.

Mrs. Drew I will receive a very large salary (from the same person who knew Mary Easley) to sing the national anthem at all NC State basketball games.

Drew II will eventually transfer to NC State, where he will play 40 minutes per game so as to impress the pro scouts with his stupendous talents.

The Wolfpack fight song with be changed to mimic the old Frank Sinatra song - "Drew be Drew be Drew...."

ChicagoHeel
02-04-2011, 04:02 PM
As one who subscribes to the "nefarious trick" theory...

Since you quoted the word "nefarious" 4-5 times in as many paragraphs, I'm going to assume that the word offended you. If so, my apologies.

As for the content of your post...I do not dispute that LD II was unhappy- his body language throughout the season left little doubt about that. Nor do I disagree that Roy was likely concerned that benching him would make LD II even less happy. I simply disagreed with those who seemed to be arguing that Roy calculated that benching Drew would lead to a transfer and therefore Roy purposely waited until the second half of the season in order to make it harder for LD II to jump ship. If Roy did act along those lines, then he was acting in a reprehensible manner in that he was misleading LD II and essentially prolonging his misery at UNC.

My speculation is that last summer Roy worked to convince Drew to return because he thought it was best for Drew and the team- could Roy Williams really think otherwise? It is Roy's own stubborn loyalty to more experienced players that explains his delay in making the switch to Marshall. I seriously doubt that Roy's decision to keep starting Drew was influenced by the power of the Drew family or a concern that benching him would result in a transfer.

SoCalDukeFan
02-04-2011, 04:07 PM
In reading a bunch of stuff about this, my guess is that his parents figured if LD II was not starting then get him out of there. Instead of stage parents, they seem like court parents.

In my opinion, Drew II is an ok college point guard in the wrong system for his game. He is not a Felton or a Lawson or a Hinrich. However he will probably do better with a team that plays more of a half court game.

However, I really don't see him as an NBA player. So why transfer? Finish up at UNC-CH, get your degree, and move on to Europe or wherever his next stop will be. Transferring just delays everything. He would still get plenty of playing time at UNC-CH.

Transferring now not only delays everything, it leaves your team short handed. Very selfish. Kind of shows the lack of respect he and his family have for Roy and program.

SoCal

ChicagoHeel
02-04-2011, 04:08 PM
IIRC, Roy was "blindsided" by the Wears' decision to transfer too, wasn't he? What does this say about how in tune Roy is with what is going on with his players and with their families? Does he care? Do they not trust him or think enough of him to let him in on what is happening, what they're thinking, what they're feeling about how their experience in Chapel Hill is going?

Or is he just full of it, he knew this was coming, and he's just going with the "blindsided" thing for some sort of PR reasons? I don't know, but none of these possibilities say much for him.

Apparently, all the players on the team were blindsided too. Zeller mentioned that Watts, LD II's roommate, was even surprised- Watts didn't find out until he returned from class and read the news. Seems like the whole thing says more about Drew than Williams.

As for whether Roy cares, watch his press conference. He looked awfully deflated. I don't think his acting skills are that good. It may be that he's more upset about how it reflects on him and the team than about the actual loss of Drew, but he nonetheless seemed to take it pretty hard.

dukelifer
02-04-2011, 04:24 PM
Given the timing and the abruptness- it sounds a bit like burnout and perhaps depression. I hope the kid has some time to get his life together and get better. It is easy to poke fun- but this is a kid in a high pressure situation and he may just not be enjoying it anymore. It happens to many athletes. Drew was effectively lost to an injury.

CharlestonDevil
02-04-2011, 04:32 PM
IIRC, Roy was "blindsided" by the Wears' decision to transfer too, wasn't he? What does this say about how in tune Roy is with what is going on with his players and with their families? Does he care? Do they not trust him or think enough of him to let him in on what is happening, what they're thinking, what they're feeling about how their experience in Chapel Hill is going?

Or is he just full of it, he knew this was coming, and he's just going with the "blindsided" thing for some sort of PR reasons? I don't know, but none of these possibilities say much for him.

Boom. Right there.

Every UNC recruit is sold this Bill of Goods:
- You are coming to a school with one of the richest traditions in college basketball history (true)
- We have a Hall of Fame Coach (true) so he's definitely one of the best coaches in the business (FALSE)
- Michael Jordan went here so that still makes us legitimate (FALSE)
- We have a tremendous fan base (true) that is extremely loyal (FALSE)
- If you come to our university you will become another great player in a long line of great players, you will compete for NC's each year and win at least one, and because "we send SOOOO many kids to The League" you will be the next in line.

Obviously the entire fan base is caught up in this myth, and recruits can be too. Expectations like this are not realistic, but they are REAL in Chapel Hill. When players don't see this materializing I am sure there are plenty of phone calls back home to discuss. The court now enters exhibits A, B, and C, David Wear, Travis Wear, and Larry Drew II.

pfrduke
02-04-2011, 04:38 PM
Boom. Right there.

Every UNC recruit is sold this Bill of Goods:
- You are coming to a school with one of the richest traditions in college basketball history (true)
- We have a Hall of Fame Coach (true) so he's definitely one of the best coaches in the business (FALSE)
- Michael Jordan went here so that still makes us legitimate (FALSE)
- We have a tremendous fan base (true) that is extremely loyal (FALSE)
- If you come to our university you will become another great player in a long line of great players, you will compete for NC's each year and win at least one, and because "we send SOOOO many kids to The League" you will be the next in line.

Obviously the entire fan base is caught up in this myth, and recruits can be too. Expectations like this are not realistic, but they are REAL in Chapel Hill. When players don't see this materializing I am sure there are plenty of phone calls back home to discuss. The court now enters exhibits A, B, and C, David Wear, Travis Wear, and Larry Drew II.

I don't think Wear, Wear, and Drew II are examples of a "myth" in the recruiting sales pitch at UNC any more than Czyz, King, etc. are examples of "myths" in Duke's sales pitch.

Duvall
02-04-2011, 04:44 PM
I don't think Wear, Wear, and Drew II are examples of a "myth" in the recruiting sales pitch at UNC any more than Czyz, King, etc. are examples of "myths" in Duke's sales pitch.

That's true, but it does cast a new light on those "Duke has a transfer problem" threads of the not-to-distant past.

hudlow
02-04-2011, 04:44 PM
Personally, I think it was the gig on the aircraft carrier that was the final straw.

Can't say that I blame him. Diving for loose balls and all that...

allenmurray
02-04-2011, 04:50 PM
Personally, I think it was the gig on the aircraft carrier that was the final straw.

I agree, and we may see a lot more defections between now and then. Being thrown under the bus is bad enough, but being thrown under the aircraft carrier - what a way togo.

Billy Dat
02-04-2011, 04:58 PM
We've certainly gone through the transfer wave and I think we will again. If Roy is guilty of anything, it's that he wears his heart on his sleeve and is pretty honest with the media. I am sure he was blindsided, who would expect a transfer in February? I don't mean to apologize for Roy, but we've been through this and someitmes this stuff happens.

gumbomoop
02-04-2011, 05:06 PM
Since you quoted the word "nefarious" 4-5 times in as many paragraphs, I'm going to assume that the word offended you. If so, my apologies.

As for the content of your post...I do not dispute that LD II was unhappy- his body language throughout the season left little doubt about that. Nor do I disagree that Roy was likely concerned that benching him would make LD II even less happy. I simply disagreed with those who seemed to be arguing that Roy calculated that benching Drew would lead to a transfer and therefore Roy purposely waited until the second half of the season in order to make it harder for LD II to jump ship. If Roy did act along those lines, then he was acting in a reprehensible manner in that he was misleading LD II and essentially prolonging his misery at UNC.

My speculation is that last summer Roy worked to convince Drew to return because he thought it was best for Drew and the team- could Roy Williams really think otherwise? It is Roy's own stubborn loyalty to more experienced players that explains his delay in making the switch to Marshall. I seriously doubt that Roy's decision to keep starting Drew was influenced by the power of the Drew family or a concern that benching him would result in a transfer.

No, no, I wasn't offended. I was trying to counter your argument by conceding that the "calculating Roy" theory is too simplistic an explanation, while insisting that concerns on Roy's part re Drew as a potential bolter shouldn't be totally discounted. But I can easily see that my overuse of the word "nefarious" might lead one to think I was irritated. Nope.

Your emphasis on Roy's stubborn loyalty makes sense. And we agree that an unhappy Drew did require some delicate handling.

Now, on "calculated" and "purposely": rather than "reprehensible," it's not hard to imagine - given Drew's unhappiness, confusion, uncertainty - Roy did have to calculate [not in a nefarious way, but just practically] how to give more time to Marshall, and how to make the change when no longer avoidable. As you note, of course Roy would think Drew's returning was best for him and for the team; similarly, he'd think Drew could be a very productive backup [which in fact he was], if he could be persuaded that being the backup was no slam on his value to the team. It just didn't work; maybe no way; hurt Drew too much, whatever other factors were in play.

devildeac
02-04-2011, 05:30 PM
I wonder if Quentin Thomas has any more eligibility remaining...

:rolleyes:

BD80
02-04-2011, 05:47 PM
Wonder how this is being received by Henson and Zeller?

If Zeller goes pro, next year's "senior night" at the nose dome is for Justin Watts.

This year's is for ... ? Justin Knox has already graduated, he is not a senior!

This really can't be good for recruiting for ol' roy.

Last one to leave the program - turn out the lights!

cptnflash
02-04-2011, 05:50 PM
Farewell, Larry Drew II. I will miss you. You did more to defeat UNC during the last two years than just about anyone I can think of. I consider you an honorary Blue Devil. God Speed!

sagegrouse
02-04-2011, 05:50 PM
Boom. Right there.

Every UNC recruit is sold this Bill of Goods:

- You are coming to a school with one of the richest traditions in college basketball history (true)
- We have a Hall of Fame Coach (true) so he's definitely one of the best coaches in the business (FALSE)
- Michael Jordan went here so that still makes us legitimate (FALSE)
- We have a tremendous fan base (true) that is extremely loyal (FALSE)
- If you come to our university you will become another great player in a long line of great players, you will compete for NC's each year and win at least one, and because "we send SOOOO many kids to The League" you will be the next in line.
Obviously the entire fan base is caught up in this myth, and recruits can be too. Expectations like this are not realistic, but they are REAL in Chapel Hill. When players don't see this materializing I am sure there are plenty of phone calls back home to discuss. The court now enters exhibits A, B, and C, David Wear, Travis Wear, and Larry Drew II.

Not to be flip, but if you substitute a proper name, change a couple of FALSEs to TRUEs, and a point to both lists about "graduating from one of the most outstanding [public] universities in the world," that's what Duke is selling.

sagegrouse

cptnflash
02-04-2011, 05:53 PM
Very interesting development. There had been rumors that he may transfer after last season, so this shouldn't come as a total shock despite the very odd timing of it. That being said, I'm not entirely sure how this effects the heels.

On the one hand this puts an immense amount of pressure on Marshall, who now has to run the entire show by himself. Can he handle running the point without LD2 there to spot him? LD2 actually has played pretty well in the backup role, so this no doubt hurts the heels from a pure basketball standpoint. I think the bigger variable though is team chemistry. If LD2's attitude has been part of their problem the past two years then this ultimately could help them. This makes even clearer that the team now belongs to the young guys, and I could see this being an event that brings the team closer together. Is that enough to overcome the large hole this leaves at the PG position? I'm not really sure, but I think it is possible that this isn't all terrible news for the heels.

Very good points. I think this is actually a huge positive for the Heels, IF Dexter Strickland can give them 5-8 adequate minutes at point per game to spell Marshall (and if Marshall is in good enough shape to play 35 minutes a game). Marshall is very good and Drew was clearly part of the problem from an attitude/chemistry standpoint.

Greg_Newton
02-04-2011, 06:18 PM
I do kind of find myself feeling bad for the kid. Both from his statement and just from watching him play, he does seem like he's been exposed to a bit much of his negative press and is pretty down on himself.

The one thing I still don't understand is why he didn't transfer last summer. I remember hearing that he was "given every opportunity" to do so, and I'm not sure what he expected this season to be like. He could have saved himself a lot of time.

I agree that there is probably more going on here that we'll ever hear.

hudlow
02-04-2011, 06:21 PM
I just read on IC that it's LDII's momma's fault that Carolina didn't get John Wall.

...

sandinmyshoes
02-04-2011, 06:23 PM
I posted earlier in the thread that there had long been rumors among the UNC types that Larry Drew's mother had been a source trouble. The post was edited, which I understand because I was unsure about posting it because it was rumor.

But now I see IC has an article up giving some detail, which I guess raises it up from the rumor level.

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1045909.html

This reminds me of some of the issues we had with Shav's father. It has to be one of the major headaches of coaches in the modern era of Nike style hype and recruiting.

cptnflash
02-04-2011, 06:27 PM
Great interview (actually, more like a press mob) with Kendall Marshall regarding Drew's departure. I thought he handled the situation and the questions really well. I have to say, I really like that kid.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc/video/9061712/#/vid9061712

weezie
02-04-2011, 06:32 PM
Kendall Marshall... I have to say, I really like that kid.


Easy there, flash. Let's just remain calm and collected until after we serve the 'holes some loser pie.
Unless, of course, this is your secret strategy to help the Devils ;)

jimsumner
02-04-2011, 06:32 PM
This might turn out to be a positive for Carolina but I think that's a real reach. Drew was playing pretty solid basketball and he was one of their better defenders. His departure leaves Carolina with one point guard and he's a freshman. It also takes away one of their few experienced upperclassmen. His departure hurts UNC's ball-handling, defense, depth and experience.

I was 10 feet away from RW at his press conference today. Unless he's a much better actor than I give him credit for, he was genuinely surprised and genuinely upset at this development.

Apparently, Drew practiced yesterday with no apparent problems, his teammates didn't see it coming and everybody says he's a nice guy and was a solid teammate. Not a cancer.

I'm sure we'll find out more. But at this point, I see no reason to think of this as anything but bad news for the Carolina program. Color me perplexed.

Turtleboy
02-04-2011, 06:37 PM
How does a student quit school mid semester and not flunk everything? How can that transcript be accepted anywhere?

77devil
02-04-2011, 06:43 PM
How does a student quit school mid semester and not flunk everything? How can that transcript be accepted anywhere?

Are you serious? His next destination is not terribly interested in his transcript. I'm sure the transcript will state withdrawn for all courses this semester.

throatybeard
02-04-2011, 06:43 PM
What's a "turnover jesus"?

I think it's a large Trompe-l'śil of QB Ron Powlus in South Bend.

oldnavy
02-04-2011, 06:50 PM
I really have not seen any indications of "chemistry" problems at UNC this year as oppossed to last season. So, I don't see that this will have a major impact on that, however I do think it will be a negative for all the reasons already mentioned.

I just wonder if DrewI felt like DrewII wasn't learning anything at UNC and therefore not progressing. Remember, Roy is on record of saying the last thing I want to do is run a play, so as a point guard, how much instruction and coaching do you expect he was getting?? I would say not much, just get up the court as fast as you can (i.e., be Ty Lawson daggumit).

This cannot be good PR for Roy in the recruiting circles. That and with Barnes' much talked about under achievement (note I did not say that he did not live up to expectations ((no one could have done that)), but I do think it is fair to say that he has underachieved) could very well be used against him and the heels by other coaches...

BAD BAD BAD day for the heels !!
:D

Turtleboy
02-04-2011, 06:57 PM
Are you serious? His next destination is not terribly interested in his transcript. I'm sure the transcript will state withdrawn for all courses this semester.Sure I'm serious. Are you suggesting that his professors will be ordered not to flunk him? They are the ones who hand in the grades. Or perhaps that the Registrar will doctor his transcript?

I'm pretty sure that the date for withdrawing without penalty has passed, but I could be wrong.

buddy
02-04-2011, 07:12 PM
How does a student quit school mid semester and not flunk everything? How can that transcript be accepted anywhere?

I don't know UNC's specific rules, but at most schools, assuming he is not flunking, he simply gets a W for the course. The semester is only four weeks old. Today may be the last day to withdraw without getting an automatic F for all I know. For an ordinary student, withdrawing this late would probably result in forfeiture of tuition and other fees for the entire semester, but LDII is not really concerned with that.

hudlow
02-04-2011, 07:22 PM
... so as a point guard, how much instruction and coaching do you expect he was getting?? I would say not much, just get up the court as fast as you can.

:D

Flashback to Lefty Driesell - using both hands to point the way up the court while urging his players to "run!"

He was great.

miramar
02-04-2011, 07:41 PM
How does a student quit school mid semester and not flunk everything? How can that transcript be accepted anywhere?

Per the UNC Registrar's calendar:

Last day for Undergraduate Students to drop courses. Monday, March 14, 2011

The idea is that it gives the students time to receive a midterm or major exam grade and the opportunity to withdraw from the course without affecting their GPA, although they lose their tuition payment (obviously not his concern in this case).

Some schools keep the class on the transcript and put a W instead of a grade, but I'm not sure what UNC does.

http://regweb.unc.edu/calendars/regcal112.php

taiw93
02-04-2011, 07:45 PM
Hate to say it, I actually found this news somewhat upsetting. Drew was finally starting to "get it" at UNC and the team was starting to turn it around, and then bam - this happened. And though I thoroughly enjoy watching the Tar Heels lose, I really do hope that this does not severely affect their season. It is simply much more fun to beat Carolina when they're good.

It is also worth noting, though, what this shows about Roy's program. I cannot remember a transfer from Duke leaving on such bad terms, and I find it especially odd that both Drew and the Wears announced their transfer to Williams via their fathers. I am very pleased that Duke's entire roster, including players who transfer out, is mature and accountable enough to treat their coach and teammates with respect in these situations. Says a lot about the type of boys Coach K recruits, and the type of men that he is able to mold them into.

oldnavy
02-04-2011, 07:48 PM
Hate to say it, I actually found this news somewhat upsetting. Drew was finally starting to "get it" at UNC and the team was starting to turn it around, and then bam - this happened. And though I thoroughly enjoy watching the Tar Heels lose, I really do hope that this does not severely affect their season. It is simply much more fun to beat Carolina when they're good.

Good, bad or ugly, it is always FUN to beat Carolina!!!

Turtleboy
02-04-2011, 07:49 PM
Per the UNC Registrar's calendar:

Last day for Undergraduate Students to drop courses. Monday, March 14, 2011

The idea is that it gives the students time to receive a midterm or major exam grade and the opportunity to withdraw from the course without affecting their GPA, although they lose their tuition payment (obviously not his concern in this case).

Some schools keep the class on the transcript and put a W instead of a grade, but I'm not sure what UNC does.

http://regweb.unc.edu/calendars/regcal112.phpThanks.

UrinalCake
02-04-2011, 08:00 PM
I cannot remember a transfer from Duke leaving on such bad terms

Chris Burgess is the closest example I can think of. His father had some very harsh words for Coach K which he stated publicly. But at least his transfer made sense basketball-wise. Czyz and King's transfers made sense basketball-wise - they weren't prepared for this level of competition and chose to go where they could get more playing time. While some duke fans might have responded harshly, most understood their decisions. Elliot was of course a special situation. This whole situation with Drew II is just baffling.

jipops
02-04-2011, 08:30 PM
Highly regarded Marcus Paige is on the way for the Heels in 2012. Not that this would have any effect on the Drew situation, but Kendall is the lone true point for one season.

OldPhiKap
02-04-2011, 08:32 PM
I really think that Roy/UNC is going through what we went through in the mid to late -90's when, as K admits, the recruiting went a bit askew and the upperclassmen didn't quite get it done (though I still love them). The question is whether Roy rights the ship or decides he's had enough and retires in the next few years.

The two biggest problems UNC has had the last two years are a lack of a point guard that is suited to the system, and upperclassman leadership. The transfer of the Wears, of LD II, and the dismissal of Graves leaves very little experienced leadership. And still no depth or top level quality pg now or in next year's class.

Team turmoil roils on.

Devilsfan
02-04-2011, 08:49 PM
Daggumit! LD was my fav player. I was looking forward to a double digit turnover game by him in Cameron. First the Wear twins leave on bad terms. Then little brother Zeller says no to ol'roy now LD is leaving. LD will need a super size UHall to carry all the families baggage back to Atlanta. Heard Moma D can be very vocal. Maybe the stories are true. At any rate I agree with ol'roy's self analysis, but ol' roy still needs more time to reflect. He should call the "Zen Master" for help.

cptnflash
02-04-2011, 08:59 PM
Hate to say it, I actually found this news somewhat upsetting. Drew was finally starting to "get it" at UNC and the team was starting to turn it around, and then bam - this happened. And though I thoroughly enjoy watching the Tar Heels lose, I really do hope that this does not severely affect their season. It is simply much more fun to beat Carolina when they're good.

/disagree

I enjoyed 82-50 as much as I've enjoyed any Duke/Carolina game ever. And they sucked.

ncexnyc
02-04-2011, 09:15 PM
I can see it now, a two hour special live from UNC. The first hour can be devoted solely to the Wear twins and the final hour will be all about LDII.

Jesse can interview tons of people with pixelated faces and electronically altered voices. Dr. Phil could analyze DrewII and the guy from Celebrity Rehab could cover Ol' Roy's addiction to coke, cola that is.

OldPhiKap
02-04-2011, 09:24 PM
It could have been worse for Carolina. Drew could have left in the middle of a game.

I'm sure that Roy will somehow state that this is worse than the turmoil in Egypt.

Harrison Barnes, Iowa has a good future BTW . . . .




And, if allowed to link, a very good article from the dark side:

http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/020411aab.html

Devilsfan
02-04-2011, 09:59 PM
Most Rams Club members

I know are delighted and very excited about the teams prospects without "Mr. Turnover II". I hope they're wrong.

OldPhiKap
02-04-2011, 10:02 PM
Most Rams Club members

I know are delighted and very excited about the teams prospects without "Mr. Turnover II". I hope they're wrong.

They will miss LD II on the defensive end, and he played some of his best ball in the last few games coming off the bench.

-bdbd
02-04-2011, 10:22 PM
Man-o-live!!!

I just looked at a couple of the Drew-2 links and was just astounded at the virility of the fan comments after the articles. Check out the fans statements in the Daily Tarhole paper... :eek:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/index.php/article/2011/02/039huge_blow039

Geez! You'd think the kid just murdered his best friend or something. Not a positive comment in the bunch. Wow. Given that level of understanding and support, I just can't imagine why he'd have wanted to leave.... Sheesh!!!

Separately, I thought it interesting that many of the articles and, essentially, all of the fan posts, just want to villify this poor 19-year-old kid. I've seen no comments questions regarding the coach/staff, who for the THIRD TIME IN NINE MONTHS were caught totally off-guard by yet another disgruntled player wanting to leave. I think that says a lot about the staff and the relationships with the kids.

You gotta wonder, with the 4th (!!) departure (another upperclassman was for discipline issues) in a 9 month window, just who's next??! If you're a top recruit, how can you NOT ask yourself, "What the hell is going on there? And what are they all seeing that's making them all leave??" One hint: look at the fan comments in the DTH article!

I just can't recall K ever losing FOUR unhappy players in such a tight timeframe. And it is almost always young players who weren't able to earn playing time early on. Does anyone suspect this is a "meddling parent" situation, like Mr. Burgess??

Lastly, any predictions re how this affects Carolina's post-season aspirations? The pressure is really on Marshall now, and to a lesser degree on Strickland. It may mean Williams has to go out and recruit an emergency back-up PG at this late stage from the 2011 class. It'll make Roy's run-n-gun system hard to run with a worn-out Frosh PG as the only real option for 40 minutes... Gasp! No way ole Roy would ever CHANGE his system to match his personnel, right?

Interesting stuff. Should make the Kerlina game in CIS very interesting next week. 'bet K and his guards are lickin' their chops!!!!
:) ;) :D

taiw93
02-04-2011, 10:46 PM
Man-o-live!!!

I just looked at a couple of the Drew-2 links and was just astounded at the virility of the fan comments after the articles. Check out the fans statements in the Daily Tarhole paper... :eek:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/index.php/article/2011/02/039huge_blow039

Geez! You'd think the kid just murdered his best friend or something. Not a positive comment in the bunch. Wow. Given that level of understanding and support, I just can't imagine why he'd have wanted to leave.... Sheesh!!!

Separately, I thought it interesting that many of the articles and, essentially, all of the fan posts, just want to villify this poor 19-year-old kid. I've seen no comments questions regarding the coach/staff, who for the THIRD TIME IN NINE MONTHS were caught totally off-guard by yet another disgruntled player wanting to leave. I think that says a lot about the staff and the relationships with the kids.

You gotta wonder, with the 4th (!!) departure (another upperclassman was for discipline issues) in a 9 month window, just who's next??! If you're a top recruit, how can you NOT ask yourself, "What the hell is going on there? And what are they all seeing that's making them all leave??" One hint: look at the fan comments in the DTH article!

I just can't recall K ever losing FOUR unhappy players in such a tight timeframe. And it is almost always young players who weren't able to earn playing time early on. Does anyone suspect this is a "meddling parent" situation, like Mr. Burgess??

Lastly, any predictions re how this affects Carolina's post-season aspirations? The pressure is really on Marshall now, and to a lesser degree on Strickland. It may mean Williams has to go out and recruit an emergency back-up PG at this late stage from the 2011 class. It'll make Roy's run-n-gun system hard to run with a worn-out Frosh PG as the only real option for 40 minutes... Gasp! No way ole Roy would ever CHANGE his system to match his personnel, right?

Interesting stuff. Should make the Kerlina game in CIS very interesting next week. 'bet K and his guards are lickin' their chops!!!!
:) ;) :D

I actually found this rather funny. The Heel fans are now referring to him as "Larry (With)drew." I imagine the Crazies are going to have a lot of material to work with on Wednesday...

4decadedukie
02-04-2011, 10:54 PM
Does anyone else share my feeling that the real, critical and long-term issue isn't Drew II, or the Wear twins, or similar short-term impediments? Rather, when the head coach has players leave that he (apparently, as reported today on IC) was unaware were dissatisfied to the point of abandoning the program, that legitimately calls into question overriding and enduring issues such as communications, leadership and team cohesion. I am probably extrapolating too far, but I believe it is reasonable -- although absolutely not certain -- to analyze these facts and to postulate that there may be larger issues that may aversely impact UNC.

jdj4duke
02-04-2011, 11:34 PM
I agree, and we may see a lot more defections between now and then. Being thrown under the bus is bad enough, but being thrown under the aircraft carrier - what a way togo.

Now you're talking. Keel hauling is so much better than running suicide sprints.

Vincetaylor
02-04-2011, 11:39 PM
The courage to quit? Huh? Quitting is what you do when you don't have the courage to tough it out in difficult times, when you don't have the courage to put your nose to the grindstone and work, and make yourself into a better player and a better teammate, and when you don't have the courage to say to your teammates and coach, "I wish I was playing more (or whatever his problem with the team is) but I'm a Tar Heel. I'm going to do everything I can, whether I'm playing or supporting the other guys, to help this team win games. However you guys need me." That's with someone with character would do. Not bail in mid-season.

It's a freaking college basketball team. He's not the member of a military platoon. If you really hate your job, are you just supposed to suck it up and sacrifice your own happiness for the good of the company and the rest of your co-workers? Maybe I should have said "the courage to move on" instead of "the courage to quit". My apologies.

Kedsy
02-05-2011, 12:23 AM
I just looked at a couple of the Drew-2 links and was just astounded at the virility of the fan comments after the articles.

Virility? I'm afraid to click on the link.

Kfanarmy
02-05-2011, 01:01 AM
A couple of weeks ago, when UNC was struggling and nobody could understand why Coach Williams insisted on starting Drew ahead of Marshall, I was told by an UNC insider that the reason was that Roy was afraid that if he benched Drew for Marshall that he would lose Drew ... It's the timing that's shocking -- Perhaps there's some retribution going on here. He did take a lot of crap from the fans last year, then gets benched this year, but starts playing really well....jumping right before Roy hits the hard end of the ACC schedule may be retaliatory to the coach and the fans...pure speculation, but a possibility

Kfanarmy
02-05-2011, 01:09 AM
If this is a basketball-related departure, contrast it with Greg Paulus's attitude and continued buy-in one he lost his starting spot. Greg may have been limited as a player but you have to respect his attitude and reaction to being benched.

Greg was working for coach K and while the fans were hard on Paulus, its nothing compared to what Drew endured from the Carolina fanatics.

shoutingncu
02-05-2011, 05:53 AM
This cannot be good PR for Roy in the recruiting circles. That and with Barnes' much talked about under achievement (note I did not say that he did not live up to expectations ((no one could have done that)), but I do think it is fair to say that he has underachieved) could very well be used against him and the heels by other coaches...

BAD BAD BAD day for the heels !!
:D

Duke didn't seem too hurt long term by a seeming rash of transfers and an underachieving McRoberts...

I think Carolina will ultimately be fine after this (although the small strides gained this year are probably done)... I'm far more worried about NBA departures after this season. But if the front court returns intact, an experienced Marshall shouldn't need much help running the point.

DevilWearsPrada
02-05-2011, 06:46 AM
Since Larry (With)Drew II, has left UNC; and I now live across I40 bridge on the Enemy Side (However, not sleeping with the Enemy.... lol).. I guess I live in THE OC, now. The OC, I loved that showed (circa 2003-2007, now Soapnet)..Orange County.

I left the Night Light on last night, and had the Duke Tailgate Chair outside, with the Duke Flag.... yes over n Chapel Thrill (Hill), close to Unc Campus, and the Smith Dome and Kenan Stadium, etc.............. I was waiting for LDII to show up, since he has Escaped the Kerlina Prison System (State System), and had a Duke TShirt and Ball Cap, waiting for him to retrieve.

Perhaps, Larry (With)Drew II dropped his UNC duds off at the PTA thrift store in Chapel Hill/Carrboro, and needs to upgrade to a DARKER BLUE. (not as a player..... but as a Duke Fan).

I did my part, I left the night light on, so he could find his way, through all the baby boy blue n C Hill, by Flying the Duke colors through the wind and rain!!!

There is always room for a converted Unc fan, to wear the Proud Duke Blue. LDII might need some therapy, after all the verbal abuse from the Diehard Rams Club members and the UNC students. I actually feel for the kid, because I have heard the nasty comments on Sports radio stations in the Triangle.

How many kids have left Unc in the last year, 3 or 4? Weir Twins, LDII, and Graves... wow.. Is that Correct?

IF LDII is content with his decision to leave during the season.... which I find his timing is impecable, just something else to talk about before the Rivilary game next week.


DO YOU THINK THAT LARRY (WITH)DREW II can sit across from Ole Roy Williams, and the Unc Bench, next week, during the Duke/Kerlina game, like the tossed out Presbyterian fan did last year??? THAT would be totally Awesome!!! LDII sitting with the Cameron Crazies.. I guess I can still dream!!

and as always,

LETS GO DUKE!!!

kong123
02-05-2011, 07:54 AM
I read in an article that LD's roommate, Justin Watts, didn't even know that LD was going to leave. He found out like everyone else did. So, saying there is a communication issue only between the coaching staff isn't really fair. No one knew what was going on.

As far as meddling parents, in the same article they give a few descriptions of how LD's mom had been a problem. She evidently almost got her younger son kicked off of his high school team because she blew up on the coaching staff about his playing time. Also, remember when Roy called John Wall before the final four? Well, it seems LD's mom blew up on Roy or someone else on the coaching staff. Not sure if Roy stopped recruiting JW because of this or one of the other reasons to not recruit him, but it does provide a little back drop to the whole situation.

While the Wear twins leaving did make Roy look bad, I feel that LD leaving the way that he did really only hurts LD. He will have this follow him around for a long time and he may never escape it. He left in the middle of the season when things appeared to look good. He didn't confide in any of his friends or teammates, he just left. Again, having a father clean up the mess he wasn't man enough to own up to.

Now I am sure the young man went through a ton of crap in the couple years he ran the show for UNC. I cannot imagine what it did to the young man. It is truly sad that this happened. I do not think he was a good fit at UNC. I think, ultimately, that he wasn't dedicated to the team and not focused on getting better. I hope this fiasco will bring the team closer together. Give them an "us vs world" mentality. I believe that all of the guys left want to get better, want to play hard, and want to win. They want to win for each other and they want to win despite Larry (with)Drews recent betrayal.

ncexnyc
02-05-2011, 08:16 AM
I read in an article that LD's roommate, Justin Watts, didn't even know that LD was going to leave. He found out like everyone else did. So, saying there is a communication issue only between the coaching staff isn't really fair. No one knew what was going on.

As far as meddling parents, in the same article they give a few descriptions of how LD's mom had been a problem. She evidently almost got her younger son kicked off of his high school team because she blew up on the coaching staff about his playing time. Also, remember when Roy called John Wall before the final four? Well, it seems LD's mom blew up on Roy or someone else on the coaching staff. Not sure if Roy stopped recruiting JW because of this or one of the other reasons to not recruit him, but it does provide a little back drop to the whole situation.

While the Wear twins leaving did make Roy look bad, I feel that LD leaving the way that he did really only hurts LD. He will have this follow him around for a long time and he may never escape it. He left in the middle of the season when things appeared to look good. He didn't confide in any of his friends or teammates, he just left. Again, having a father clean up the mess he wasn't man enough to own up to.

Now I am sure the young man went through a ton of crap in the couple years he ran the show for UNC. I cannot imagine what it did to the young man. It is truly sad that this happened. I do not think he was a good fit at UNC. I think, ultimately, that he wasn't dedicated to the team and not focused on getting better. I hope this fiasco will bring the team closer together. Give them an "us vs world" mentality. I believe that all of the guys left want to get better, want to play hard, and want to win. They want to win for each other and they want to win despite Larry (with)Drews recent betrayal.
I understand how people can question both the Wear twins and LDII for the way they let their dad's handle the phone call to Roy instead of doing it themselves, however that is based on the presumption that Roy would be receptive and civil to such a call. It could be these players have seen another side of Roy that led them to believe they didn't want to deal with making the call on their own. I also thought one phone call from Mr. Wear was better than two seperate calls, as I'm not sure Roy could have handled rejection twice in one day.

kong123
02-05-2011, 08:25 AM
I understand how people can question both the Wear twins and LDII for the way they let their dad's handle the phone call to Roy instead of doing it themselves, however that is based on the presumption that Roy would be receptive and civil to such a call. It could be these players have seen another side of Roy that led them to believe they didn't want to deal with making the call on their own. I also thought one phone call from Mr. Wear was better than two seperate calls, as I'm not sure Roy could have handled rejection twice in one day.


Perhaps you are right. However, I doubt that Roy is any more intimidating that most of the other head coaches in college basketball. I think another excuse could be that both decisions to leave in on both cases were made by the parents.

alteran
02-05-2011, 08:29 AM
What's a "turnover jesus"?

Someone who can raise other team's chances of victory from the dead, someone who demonstrates repeatedly that he can walk on hardwood, someone who can turn light blue fandom into whine. (Okay, that last one's not so miraculous.)

In short, the savior other teams have been looking for against UNC.

In all seriousness, while I often thought LD2 might be the secret sauce in UNC's stinkburger, he's been playing very effectively lately in mildly reduced minutes. If I were to get a vote, I'd still want him to stay, but this may work out better for those of us opposed to UNC. Roy is defensive, UNC's growing but potentially fragile chemistry has a challenge, and Marshall-- not exactly a defensive whiz-- is going to be playing extended minutes.

The one good thing I think we'll get is to see how much of UNC's travails DID correspond to LD2 and his rumored negative effects on team chemistry.

I'd like to note this marks the third transfer from UNC this year who elected not to tell the coach himself. I'm sure that's because Roy is such an "aw shucks" great guy who has phenomenal respect from all his players.

alteran
02-05-2011, 08:35 AM
/disagree

I enjoyed 82-50 as much as I've enjoyed any Duke/Carolina game ever. And they sucked.

So true.

I've watched that game at least 4 times. My favorite UNC moment is when Hensen gets all attitudinal after dunking the ball late in the game to cut the lead to 143.

My favorite Duke moment is Scheyer coming out.

It's also weird how the game essentially has no runs. It feels surprisingly even and tense early, but every time you look up at the score, Duke's up by a few more points.

Duvall
02-05-2011, 08:53 AM
Perhaps you are right. However, I doubt that Roy is any more intimidating that most of the other head coaches in college basketball.

Delvon Roe would disagree.

kong123
02-05-2011, 08:55 AM
Delvon Roe would disagree.

you think Roe wishes he was playing at UNC right now? As big a mess as Roy had last year, Izzo is giving him a run for his money.

AtlDuke72
02-05-2011, 09:30 AM
It's a freaking college basketball team. He's not the member of a military platoon. If you really hate your job, are you just supposed to suck it up and sacrifice your own happiness for the good of the company and the rest of your co-workers?

I think the answer is yes He was part of a team. You don't quit in the middle of the season.

Duvall
02-05-2011, 09:44 AM
you think Roe wishes he was playing at UNC right now? As big a mess as Roy had last year, Izzo is giving him a run for his money.

My guess is that Roe is glad that he's going through that mess with a coach that he can trust and respect.

HateCarolina
02-05-2011, 10:42 AM
I cannot believe no one realizes the true reason that Drew chose to leave right now. He wass scared of the chants from the Crazies on Wednesday night...something to the effect of coming off the bench, second thought, etc.

Just remember you heard it hear first. :p

miramar
02-05-2011, 10:54 AM
I understand how people can question both the Wear twins and LDII for the way they let their dad's handle the phone call to Roy instead of doing it themselves, however that is based on the presumption that Roy would be receptive and civil to such a call. It could be these players have seen another side of Roy that led them to believe they didn't want to deal with making the call on their own. I also thought one phone call from Mr. Wear was better than two seperate calls, as I'm not sure Roy could have handled rejection twice in one day.

That's something I have been wondering about. First of all, I don't really know if there is some kind of transfer etiquette where the player either sits down with the coach, or a family member and the player do so. But it does make me wonder why the fathers would have to deliver the message to ol' Roy in both cases. IIRC, the Wears were practically on a taxi to the airport when dad called, so they may have avoided a tearful goodbyes all together. Something doesn't add up with the Carolina program and I don't think we can automatically blame the players and their parents.

BD80
02-05-2011, 11:11 AM
... I feel that LD leaving the way that he did really only hurts LD. He will have this follow him around for a long time and he may never escape it. He left in the middle of the season when things appeared to look good. He didn't confide in any of his friends or teammates, he just left. Again, having a father clean up the mess he wasn't man enough to own up to. ...

Isn't that part of coaching, to help the players become men? I guess 1 1/2 yrs wasn't enough time for ol' roy.

What does it say for his relationships with players that they don't feel they can or don't want to tell ol' roy in person? And that these defections take him by surprise?

oldnavy
02-05-2011, 11:15 AM
Does anyone else share my feeling that the real, critical and long-term issue isn't Drew II, or the Wear twins, or similar short-term impediments? Rather, when the head coach has players leave that he (apparently, as reported today on IC) was unaware were dissatisfied to the point of abandoning the program, that legitimately calls into question overriding and enduring issues such as communications, leadership and team cohesion. I am probably extrapolating too far, but I believe it is reasonable -- although absolutely not certain -- to analyze these facts and to postulate that there may be larger issues that may aversely impact UNC.

Of course not! I am right there with you as most of you would expect! OF COURSE most of the blame lies at Roy's feet. Think back to the Devon Roe comments and all the other craziness that has come out of Roy's mouth over the past year or so. What kind of atmosphere are these kids coming into at each practice? Publically Roy likes to say that he has to do a better job of coaching, at the same time rolling one kid after the other under the bus. What do you think it must be like when the microphones are not there? I am sure it is extremely tough to play for such a self centered, egomaniac who thinks everything he does is right and the only reason things go wrong is because the players do not put the ball in the basket enough! I can hear it now “Hey Drew, you’ve been here 3 years and you still can’t get the fast break down?”

Also, what kind of communication and trust is there when these kids do not even go to the coach themselves to tell him. They must feel intimidated or that they would be blasted out of the office… just saying, something is rotten in the state of CH….

oldnavy
02-05-2011, 11:22 AM
Duke didn't seem too hurt long term by a seeming rash of transfers and an underachieving McRoberts...

I think Carolina will ultimately be fine after this (although the small strides gained this year are probably done)... I'm far more worried about NBA departures after this season. But if the front court returns intact, an experienced Marshall shouldn't need much help running the point.

Good points. The one difference I see is that in the middle of our transfers we did not have a "horrible" season and our coach saying some pretty amazingly stupid things publically. I am sure other coaches did use it against us to some degree, but I would think as a tarheel, you would have to be asking yourself after the Wear boys, and now DrewII, what the heck is going on and why are these kids not talking to Roy about these issues? Could it be that Roy creates an environment that is hostile to such discussions? I don't know, but it is one of those things that make you go, hummmm?

OldPhiKap
02-05-2011, 12:25 PM
I actually found this rather funny. The Heel fans are now referring to him as "Larry (With)drew." I imagine the Crazies are going to have a lot of material to work with on Wednesday...

"Where is Larry?"
(clap-clap-clapclapclap)

Although I think the fans should leave this alone, personally. This is an internal problem for them, let's not make it an us-vs-them thing. They can stew and implode on it themselves.

CharlestonDevil
02-05-2011, 12:37 PM
"Where is Larry?"
(clap-clap-clapclapclap)

Although I think the fans should leave this alone, personally. This is an internal problem for them, let's not make it an us-vs-them thing. They can stew and implode on it themselves.

Yeah, but that bonfire has been burning for over a year now. Is one can of gas really going to make a difference?

And as far as I'm concerned if making the players think about YoungLarry causes them to be disheartened and give up just a little bit sooner then it's worth doing.

gofurman
02-05-2011, 12:43 PM
"Where is Larry?"
(clap-clap-clapclapclap)

Although I think the fans should leave this alone, personally. This is an internal problem for them, let's not make it an us-vs-them thing. They can stew and implode on it themselves.

I think a more positive chant would be IF we lead the game.. "you need Larry"
(clap-clap-clapclapclap)

SeattleIrish
02-05-2011, 01:04 PM
:p:p
Isn't that part of coaching, to help the players become men? I guess 1 1/2 yrs wasn't enough time for ol' roy.

What does it say for his relationships with players that they don't feel they can or don't want to tell ol' roy in person? And that these defections take him by surprise?

Unfortunately, this is more about today's college students/parents than it is about Roy/UNC, or any particular players.

I work with college students every day, in class and out. When a college student is struggling with an issue, I would put it about 60/40 that the parent will contact me, rather than the student.

I've been working with college students for 25 years; what Roy is going through is more a reflection of today's delayed adolescence, rather than an indictment on his program, IMO.

s.i.

p.s. - I'm still enjoying DII's departure

4decadedukie
02-05-2011, 01:57 PM
:p:p

Unfortunately, this is more about today's college students/parents than it is about Roy/UNC, or any particular players.

I work with college students every day, in class and out. When a college student is struggling with an issue, I would put it about 60/40 that the parent will contact me, rather than the student.

I've been working with college students for 25 years; what Roy is going through is more a reflection of today's delayed adolescence, rather than an indictment on his program, IMO.

Please permit me to make a sincere inquiry. I do not doubt your experiences and qualifications to make the foregoing observation, but shouldn't a TEAM -- players, coaches, staff -- be somewhat different, due to their long-term and deep cooperation, their commonly held goals, their individual and group cohesion, their tremendous intimacy, and so forth? it has been my experience that teammates and coaches were MUCH closer than most students and instructors.

Devilsfan
02-05-2011, 02:18 PM
Delvon Roe. I would bet he wishes he never heard of mr. williams or unch. It was a good lesson that he will remeber the rest of his life.

Kewlswim
02-05-2011, 02:53 PM
Hi,

If Ole Roy were the kind of guy a kid could go speak with and figure things out with then the kid would have most likely gone in and said, "Goodbye." Then again, if he was that kind of guy Drew II probably never leaves.

I have to believe that those in the Tar Heel Administration and Athletic Department are taking a close look at this situation and at Ole Roy (some of those people were trained at other institutions). Yelling at a kid, throwing people under the bus, etc. are not what most people think of when they think of "coaching." As much as it pains me to write this, I bet if Dean Smith were coaching the Heels, Drew II stays and they get things worked out. It pains me to write this because Smith is a Tar Heel and I don't really like saying nice things about any of them. :)

As an aside, many in Tar Heel nation feel Coach K coerces his kids and they are afraid of him and he is a total ogre. One would think that these last few defections from Tar Heel land and what people say about Coach K in the Olympic community (LeBron, Koby, etc.) would put to bed any thoughts about what kind of (bad) guy Coach K is and put into question the kind of guy Ole Roy is. OH NO, I forgot, reasonable and rational is not in the Tar Heel vocabulary (they don't let facts get in the way of an argument). My bad.

GO DUKE!

jimsumner
02-05-2011, 03:10 PM
I wrote an article recently on Bob Bender. You may recall that Bender played a season for Indiana, under Bobby Knight, before transferring to Duke. When Bender decided to leave IU, he went to Knight. Knight heard him out and asked him to sleep on it, to make sure it was what he really wanted to do. Bender came back the next day, his mind unchanged.

Knight told Bender that he would do whatever he could to facilitate the transfer. Knight told Bender that he should pick a school based on the rest of his life, not just the next three years. They had a long conversation, discussing various schools. Knight mentioned Duke, which had recruited Bender out of high school. Bender was receptive, Knight helped him make the right contacts and everything was handled smoothly, professionally and with total respect for the implications for Bender.

And in case you're wondering, Bob Bender, Senior was a very successful high school coach. I suspect it never occured to him or his son to handle this any other way.

DukieInKansas
02-05-2011, 03:20 PM
I hope that, wherever LDII ends up and whatever he does, that he is successful and leads a productive life.


That said, I still want the tar heels to lose every game they play. That will never change.

OldPhiKap
02-05-2011, 03:23 PM
I wrote an article recently on Bob Bender. You may recall that Bender played a season for Indiana, under Bobby Knight, before transferring to Duke. When Bender decided to leave IU, he went to Knight. Knight heard him out and asked him to sleep on it, to make sure it was what he really wanted to do. Bender came back the next day, his mind unchanged.

Knight told Bender that he would do whatever he could to facilitate the transfer. Knight told Bender that he should pick a school based on the rest of his life, not just the next three years. They had a long conversation, discussing various schools. Knight mentioned Duke, which had recruited Bender out of high school. Bender was receptive, Knight helped him make the right contacts and everything was handled smoothly, professionally and with total respect for the implications for Bender.

And in case you're wondering, Bob Bender, Senior was a very successful high school coach. I suspect it never occured to him or his son to handle this any other way.

Excellent example (and a link to the article would be appreciated if that is allowable). I was thinking of Elliot Williams and the way that was handled by all concerned, in comparison to the UNC/Drew issue. Although the circumstances are not identical, it really shows two totally different ways of handling a transfer issue -- from both ends of the stick.

dalmatians98
02-05-2011, 03:27 PM
There's quite a bit of schadenfreude in this thread which I think is a mistake. In the rush to rub Carolina's nose in its player problems some of you are missing the big picture.

The ACC is down (again) this year which doesn't do Duke a lot of good. Come NCAA tourney time, if you've not been facing competition in your conference, how ready are you for, say, one of the Big East powerhouses?

I take no pleasure from the departure of a kid like Larry Drew from Carolina, or from seeing a team that is supposed to be Duke's perennial archrival on the ropes like this. I don't know how you deal long term with the problems that Carolina's got on its hands. I just know that it's not good for them and in the long run, not good for us. As someone else said earlier, the games which are hard fought, close games are the best. Blowouts of inferior teams may be pleasing short term, but they don't do much for us long term.

jimsumner
02-05-2011, 03:46 PM
Excellent example (and a link to the article would be appreciated if that is allowable). I was thinking of Elliot Williams and the way that was handled by all concerned, in comparison to the UNC/Drew issue. Although the circumstances are not identical, it really shows two totally different ways of handling a transfer issue -- from both ends of the stick.

The Bender article is in the most recent issue of Go Duke: the Magazine. You should receive it if you're an Iron Duke. But not available on-line, alas.

wilson
02-05-2011, 04:01 PM
Hi,

If Ole Roy were the kind of guy a kid could go speak with and figure things out with then the kid would have most likely gone in and said, "Goodbye." Then again, if he was that kind of guy Drew II probably never leaves.

I have to believe that those in the Tar Heel Administration and Athletic Department are taking a close look at this situation and at Ole Roy (some of those people were trained at other institutions). Yelling at a kid, throwing people under the bus, etc. are not what most people think of when they think of "coaching." As much as it pains me to write this, I bet if Dean Smith were coaching the Heels, Drew II stays and they get things worked out. It pains me to write this because Smith is a Tar Heel and I don't really like saying nice things about any of them. :)

As an aside, many in Tar Heel nation feel Coach K coerces his kids and they are afraid of him and he is a total ogre. One would think that these last few defections from Tar Heel land and what people say about Coach K in the Olympic community (LeBron, Koby, etc.) would put to bed any thoughts about what kind of (bad) guy Coach K is and put into question the kind of guy Ole Roy is. OH NO, I forgot, reasonable and rational is not in the Tar Heel vocabulary (they don't let facts get in the way of an argument). My bad.

GO DUKE!Good points all. And remember, when Doh was dismissed, one of the main reasons cited was his coarse demeanor with players and others, and the bilious team spirit under his watch. Surely Roy's similarly cantankerous manner can't have gone unnoticed among the powers that be in chapel hill? I would think one of the higher-ups somewhere would want to have a discussion with him regarding the rampant chemistry issues that have beset the program in the last 18 months.
On the other hand, I can't fathom how the unc administration has somehow convinced itself that keeping Butch Davis on as football coach isn't a detriment to the university.
The big difference between Roy and Doh, of course, is a couple of championships, and similarly, giddy football expectations under Butch are of course a (probably the) major reason he still has a job there. But the differences and similarities between the three situations are, to me, very illustrative of the realities and priorities of unc athletics, and of college sports at large these days.

wsb3
02-05-2011, 04:38 PM
I wrote an article recently on Bob Bender. You may recall that Bender played a season for Indiana, under Bobby Knight, before transferring to Duke. When Bender decided to leave IU, he went to Knight. Knight heard him out and asked him to sleep on it, to make sure it was what he really wanted to do. Bender came back the next day, his mind unchanged.

Knight told Bender that he would do whatever he could to facilitate the transfer. Knight told Bender that he should pick a school based on the rest of his life, not just the next three years. They had a long conversation, discussing various schools. Knight mentioned Duke, which had recruited Bender out of high school. Bender was receptive, Knight helped him make the right contacts and everything was handled smoothly, professionally and with total respect for the implications for Bender.

And in case you're wondering, Bob Bender, Senior was a very successful high school coach. I suspect it never occurred to him or his son to handle this any other way.

Bob Bender.. That name brings back a memory of long ago. I attended the last Iron Duke classic (4 team event for the youngsters) and we were not good and you could sit about anywhere. I ended up sitting next to Bender after the first game. He was so nice and we talked about the recruiting class that was coming to Durham the next year that would change the face of Duke Basketball.

ChicagoHeel
02-05-2011, 05:03 PM
This thread is descending into pettiness. A couple of thoughts...

If the reason that LD II did not tell Roy personally is due to some character fault of Roy's, then why did Drew not tell a single teammate? It seems completely obvious to me that this has far more to do with Drew (and his parents') questionable decision making than Roy's personal failings.

I also work with college kids on a regular basis and can tell you that (1) excessive parental involvement is practically the norm and (2) kids' face to face communication skills leave something to be desired. It is common to have two roommates fight through Facebook while in the same room and never say a word to one another. The Wear twins and Drew are as much a sign of the times as an indictment of Roy's incompetence.

Does anyone have figures on Roy vs. K in terms of transfers? It is very easy to over-generalize from a single case or small sample. Yes, Roy has had three (or more accurately two) transfers out vs. one transfer in in the last two seasons, but I don't recall too many before that. Transfers, final fours, NCs, sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. Look at the record over a longer timeline before rushing to judgment. Certainly many on this board were preaching that advice at the start of the 2009 season when K's last NC seemed far in the past.

stickdog
02-05-2011, 05:09 PM
One Drew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

superdave
02-05-2011, 05:26 PM
This thread is descending into pettiness. A couple of thoughts...

If the reason that LD II did not tell Roy personally is due to some character fault of Roy's, then why did Drew not tell a single teammate? It seems completely obvious to me that this has far more to do with Drew (and his parents') questionable decision making than Roy's personal failings.

I also work with college kids on a regular basis and can tell you that (1) excessive parental involvement is practically the norm and (2) kids' face to face communication skills leave something to be desired. It is common to have two roommates fight through Facebook while in the same room and never say a word to one another. The Wear twins and Drew are as much a sign of the times as an indictment of Roy's incompetence.

Does anyone have figures on Roy vs. K in terms of transfers? It is very easy to over-generalize from a single case or small sample. Yes, Roy has had three (or more accurately two) transfers out vs. one transfer in in the last two seasons, but I don't recall too many before that. Transfers, final fours, NCs, sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. Look at the record over a longer timeline before rushing to judgment. Certainly many on this board were preaching that advice at the start of the 2009 season when K's last NC seemed far in the past.

I think the way to summarize Chapel Hill from 2009 to today is Roy never had to go through adversity as a young coach. So he does not know how to deal with it now, and some of the kids under him react poorly to Roy's poor reactions.

And the fanbase has a sense of entitlement that can chew up and spit out a kid like LDII. Sucks for him, but that's what you get for picking them. What was Brian Butch's reasoning for turning down Unc? Exactly... (http://www.zimbio.com/Brian+Butch/articles/2/5+Things+Know+Brian+Butch)

ChicagoHeel
02-05-2011, 05:42 PM
I think the way to summarize Chapel Hill from 2009 to today is Roy never had to go through adversity as a young coach. So he does not know how to deal with it now, and some of the kids under him react poorly to Roy's poor reactions.

And the fanbase has a sense of entitlement that can chew up and spit out a kid like LDII. Sucks for him, but that's what you get for picking them. What was Brian Butch's reasoning for turning down Unc? Exactly... (http://www.zimbio.com/Brian+Butch/articles/2/5+Things+Know+Brian+Butch)

According to your link "Butch was recruited by North Carolina but decided not to attend because the players had a lot of "swagger.""

And this has what to do with Roy or the entitled UNC fanbase?

Kewlswim
02-05-2011, 05:49 PM
This thread is descending into pettiness. A couple of thoughts...

If the reason that LD II did not tell Roy personally is due to some character fault of Roy's, then why did Drew not tell a single teammate? It seems completely obvious to me that this has far more to do with Drew (and his parents') questionable decision making than Roy's personal failings.

I also work with college kids on a regular basis and can tell you that (1) excessive parental involvement is practically the norm and (2) kids' face to face communication skills leave something to be desired. It is common to have two roommates fight through Facebook while in the same room and never say a word to one another. The Wear twins and Drew are as much a sign of the times as an indictment of Roy's incompetence.

Does anyone have figures on Roy vs. K in terms of transfers? It is very easy to over-generalize from a single case or small sample. Yes, Roy has had three (or more accurately two) transfers out vs. one transfer in in the last two seasons, but I don't recall too many before that. Transfers, final fours, NCs, sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. Look at the record over a longer timeline before rushing to judgment. Certainly many on this board were preaching that advice at the start of the 2009 season when K's last NC seemed far in the past.

Hello,

I think I remember when every Duke transfer has left under Coach K's watch and save for the kid who ended up at Boston College, I can't think of one that I think has been handled badly. I am now even thinking of the early entries to the NBA. Even when Coach K thought that Will Avery should stay another year there was no pettiness in what the office said and Will (if I'm not mistaken) is in the family and invited to Duke player events just like other ex-players.

With the vile, ugly, incendiary things the Tar Heel fan base has said about Coach K, for this thread to talk about things such as: Maybe the problem stems with Ole Roy and that maybe we should give the kid a break because perhaps he is not to blame surely does not rise to the status of "pettiness?" I really do believe that Coach K handles things better than Roy Williams. I really do believe that under Dean Smith the situation with Drew II does not happen. I really do believe that the Tar Heel fan base says really mean things about what Coach K is like as a person and how he treats his players and how they are somehow "deceived" by him and yet when the staff and players on the Olympic team dispels all of that the Tar Heel fan base completely sloughs it off. Roy Williams throws people under the bus time and time again. Period. I don't think this has become an issue of "pettiness" it has become an issue of maybe the Tar Heels should look for someone better equipped to run their program. I can't believe Dean Smith (if he is feeling ok to be involved) is happy with all that is going on and if possible, he would probably be on the phone to Larry Brown asking how he might feel about moving from Charlotte to Chapel Hill.

Why didn't Drew II tell another player? I have no idea. Maybe he wanted to get out of there ASAP. Maybe he was a scared kid and scared kids do unpredictable things. Maybe he feared they would tell Roy before his dad had a chance to call? Maybe his dad said, "Given all the b.s. you have been through, just get in a cab and come home."

GO DUKE!

-bdbd
02-05-2011, 06:02 PM
This thread is descending into pettiness. A couple of thoughts.... N'ah. A fan chatboard "descending into pettiness" would be one where posters constantly reference an opposing coach as a rodent, or slander the opponent's past star players as "fags" (and worse), who often state as fact that the other team's coach faked a serious injury/surgery "to avoid a losing season," or where thousands of fans/posters brutalize a 19-year-old's character and ethics, first for months/years while he doesn't meet their performance expectations and then once he subsequently flees. Do you know any place like that???


If the reason that LD II did not tell Roy personally is due to some character fault of Roy's, then why did Drew not tell a single teammate? It seems completely obvious to me that this has far more to do with Drew (and his parents') questionable decision making than Roy's personal failings. The fairly obvious answer, I would think, would be that if he told the roommate/players, then the Coach who he's apparently affraid of would find out about 30 seconds later. After three kids have done this in the last 9-months at what point do the 'heel faithful begin to smell a trend? The only time I recall this EVER happening to K - a player leaving w/o even discussing it with the HC - was in 1999, while K was laid up in the hospital for a couple weeks post-surgery and Wil Avery decided to go Pro -- but even he did it to follow his buddies, with dollar-signs in his eyes -- and NOT out of dissatisfaction with the coach, team, fans.


I also work with college kids on a regular basis and can tell you that (1) excessive parental involvement is practically the norm and (2) kids' face to face communication skills leave something to be desired. It is common to have two roommates fight through Facebook while in the same room and never say a word to one another. The Wear twins and Drew are as much a sign of the times as an indictment of Roy's incompetence. No doubt that the kids and players are different today than they were 30 years ago. But THREE players have left in the last nine months leaving Williams totally surprised, and another senior player had to leave under unexpected disciplinary circumstances. That is NOT normal, even "with today's kids," and isn't happening to other head coaches/programs. The TEAM is supposed to be tighter than that, and the coaches are supposed to be more trusted/respected than that. After all, we're just talking about a small TEAM of ten kids, and not 30,000 nameless, faceless students in a large-school student body. He (Roy) simply should have known (x3).


Does anyone have figures on Roy vs. K in terms of transfers? It is very easy to over-generalize from a single case or small sample. Yes, Roy has had three (or more accurately two) transfers out vs. one transfer in in the last two seasons, but I don't recall too many before that. Transfers, final fours, NCs, sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. Look at the record over a longer timeline before rushing to judgment. Certainly many on this board were preaching that advice at the start of the 2009 season when K's last NC seemed far in the past.
Yes. The stat that we are discussing here would be zero vs. three. That is, the number of high-profile players who left a program in less than a year's time out of anger/frustration with the coach/staff/fans and totally caught the coach by surprise. ;-)

Look. Kids will always transfer. They get to school and the environment is overwhelming, or the competition is stiffer than expected for playing time, they get homesick, etc. But look at the post a few above re. Bob Bender and how Knight handled (helped) his desire to transfer out of Indiana. Or how the coaches handled it when E. Williams left Duke for Memphis (due to a very sick mom). The issue simply is NOT that all these kids are leaving UNC. It is WHY ARE THEY LEAVING SO UNHAPPY AND THE COACH/STAFF DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE?? It certainly implies less than compliementary things about the relationships between coach and players.

OldPhiKap
02-05-2011, 07:00 PM
This thread is descending into pettiness

Have you been over to IC? Holy asbestos!

There is obviously something seriously wrong going on in CH the last few years. I think it will pass IF Roy can deal with it. The jury is still out on that.

Kdogg
02-05-2011, 07:08 PM
There is obviously something seriously wrong going on in CH the last few years. I think it will pass IF Roy can deal with it. The jury is still out on that.

I'm starting to think it might go back further than that. Outside of the transfers, Lawson, Felton, McCants and Ellington all wanted to get out of dodge as quick as possible. Of course the main reason was to get to the NBA and earn a living, but they seemed eager to leave CH. Of course Sean May would have liked to stick around longer and Hansbrough did. Both guys, though, were very tough, disciplined and prepared for tough love. Maybe that's the real issue.

Acymetric
02-05-2011, 07:14 PM
I'm starting to think it might go back further that. Outside of the transfers, Lawson, Felton, McCants and Ellington all wanted to get out of dodge as quick as possible. Of course the main reason was to get to the NBA and earn a living, but they seemed eager to leave CH.

I don't really pay enough attention to unc to know...have any of those guys been involved with the team at all since they left?

kong123
02-05-2011, 07:38 PM
I am not sure I buy anything the McCants say. It is par for the course for people to blame others for their problems, and this seems to be no different. If the kid's game was good enough, NBA GM's would put up with his attitude. Is he worse than Rodman? Is he worse than Artest?

Its a shame this is all happening. The team was starting to gain steam and now how will they respond? I think the Drew family had unrealistic expectations for their son and didn't think their son should be benched. As soon as he was, the team turned it around and their son started playing better. Did they expect Drew to get his starting spot back? Who knows, but with things starting to go so well in CH and the general mood of the fan base was returning to a more positive attitude, I think blaming Roy for this is wrong. I understand why it is done, you are Duke fans and you hate him, but it is still wrong. Sometimes things happen and it surprises everyone. This is one of those situations.

striker219
02-05-2011, 07:42 PM
I think a more positive chant would be IF we lead the game.. "you need Larry"
(clap-clap-clapclapclap)

I would absolutely love it if we turned KM over a couple times to go on a little run and heard "you-need-lar-ry" from the crowd.

DevilHorns
02-05-2011, 07:49 PM
UNC fans love to show the Elton Brand email. This IMO is far worse. This will haunt the current UNC program and Roy. Rashad had already likened his playing days at UNC to "prison." This facebook quibble + the Wears leaving (and not for lack of playing time) + younger Zeller not coming to UNC + Drew leaving (middle of the season, and not for lack of playing time) + HB not panning out = Red flag to high school prospects and their parents.

superdave
02-05-2011, 08:24 PM
I am not sure I buy anything the McCants say. It is par for the course for people to blame others for their problems, and this seems to be no different. If the kid's game was good enough, NBA GM's would put up with his attitude. Is he worse than Rodman? Is he worse than Artest?

Its a shame this is all happening. The team was starting to gain steam and now how will they respond? I think the Drew family had unrealistic expectations for their son and didn't think their son should be benched. As soon as he was, the team turned it around and their son started playing better. Did they expect Drew to get his starting spot back? Who knows, but with things starting to go so well in CH and the general mood of the fan base was returning to a more positive attitude, I think blaming Roy for this is wrong. I understand why it is done, you are Duke fans and you hate him, but it is still wrong. Sometimes things happen and it surprises everyone. This is one of those situations.

Konger-

If you dont blame Roy, do you blame Unc fans? I know the kid mis-handled the departure. That was just plain un-wise to put it charitably. But Roy does not seem to have the soft touch necessary to deal with a frustrated player, much less the ability to keep guys buying into his system/game-plan over and over, week in, week out when they hit a wall. Fans dont often run off players and I'm not sure that's how I'd describe this situation. It's hard to nail down what all went down, but to absolve Roy cannot be entirely accurate. Is that fair?

ChicagoHeel
02-05-2011, 08:36 PM
Okay, I went back and re-read the thread and it was unfair to label it as 'descending into pettiness'. There were a few comments along those lines, but I suppose that is to be expected.

As for the debate itself, i.e. whether LD II's transfer is indicative of Roy's character flaws, for now we will have to agree to disagree. It would seem that many of you blame the transfer, as well as the fact that it was announced suddenly by parents rather than the players' themselves, on Roy's arrogance/ harshness/ willingness to dump on his players/ hypocrisy, etc. Many also seem to see it as a trend that is indicative of a larger problem in the UNC program- a problem that is a function of an out-of-touch coaching staff and an entitled/ vitriolic fanbase. If you are right, then going forward Roy should have trouble drawing top-notch recruiting classes and UNC should be above the mean for transfers among the major college basketball programs- whatever that mean may actually be. I'll wager that you will be wrong- we'll continue to get our share of top recruits and our transfers will fall within the normal range, but we'll just have to wait and see.

OldPhiKap
02-05-2011, 08:39 PM
Okay, I went back and re-read the thread and it was unfair to label it as 'descending into pettiness'. There were a few comments along those lines, but I suppose that is to be expected.

As for the debate itself, i.e. whether LD II's transfer is indicative of Roy's character flaws, for now we will have to agree to disagree. It would seem that many of you blame the transfer, as well as the fact that it was announced suddenly by parents rather than the players' themselves, on Roy's arrogance/ harshness/ willingness to dump on his players/ hypocrisy, etc. Many also seem to see it as a trend that is indicative of a larger problem in the UNC program- a problem that is a function of an out-of-touch coaching staff and an entitled/ vitriolic fanbase. If you are right, then going forward Roy should have trouble drawing top-notch recruiting classes and UNC should be above the mean for transfers among the major college basketball programs- whatever that mean may actually be. I'll wager that you will be wrong- we'll continue to get our share of top recruits and our transfers will fall within the normal range, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Chicago -- I think the jury is out on why this is happening. A single transfer, i agree, is a byproduct of the times. What accounts for three transfers plus a dismissal within a single season, though? Serious, I'd like to know what you think.

Thanks, OPK

BD80
02-05-2011, 08:41 PM
Sounds like ol' roy took umbrage to McCants' comments comparing unc bball to prison, and then got even when scouts asked ol' roy about drafting McCants, and continues to leg-sweep McCants to this day at any chance he gets.

Yeah, ol' roy is just some ol' naive country bumpkin, he don't know nothin' about politics or destroying a player's reputation or career!

Any wonder the kids leave without saying anything? I'm sure word gets around: ol' roy is a vindictive S.O.B. who will torpedo a player's future if he feels betrayed. Why tell him in person if he is just going to threaten to destroy your career if you leave?

Just slip out the back, Jack ...

Make a new plan, Stan ...

Have Dad tell him you're through, Drew (II) ...

OldPhiKap
02-05-2011, 08:53 PM
Sounds like ol' roy took umbrage to McCants' comments comparing unc bball to prison, and then got even when scouts asked ol' roy about drafting McCants, and continues to leg-sweep McCants to this day at any chance he gets.

Yeah, ol' roy is just some ol' naive country bumpkin, he don't know nothin' about politics or destroying a player's reputation or career!

Any wonder the kids leave without saying anything? I'm sure word gets around: ol' roy is a vindictive S.O.B. who will torpedo a player's future if he feels betrayed. Why tell him in person if he is just going to threaten to destroy your career if you leave?

Just slip out the back, Jack ...

Make a new plan, Stan ...

Have Dad tell him you're through, Drew (II) ...

Not being cutting edge on modern technology and all, but I find that "screen grab" hard to believe. Incredible if true, but would like some confirmation that it's not bogus.



(No need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me . . . )

MChambers
02-05-2011, 08:55 PM
I understand why it is done, you are Duke fans and you hate him, but it is still wrong. Sometimes things happen and it surprises everyone. This is one of those situations.
I think you're wrong if you think most of us hate Ol' Roy. We may not like him, but no hate here.

On your other point, I certainly wouldn't cite a McCants quote for the veracity of it (although I did love it when Doh was fired and McCants said that it was like when your dog died).

Dukeface88
02-05-2011, 09:04 PM
Not being cutting edge on modern technology and all, but I find that "screen grab" hard to believe. Incredible if true, but would like some confirmation that it's not bogus.



(No need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me . . . )

The problem is that the original facebook pages have had their privacy settings changed, so they're no longer available. There are threads on TDD and PP from before the screenshots went up (when the facebook pages were still viewable) if you count those as confirmation.

Newton_14
02-05-2011, 09:11 PM
Guys, we removed the link to the supposed FB screen shots of the McCants family due to the language on the FB discussion. It is fine to talk about the exchange here, but remember it could be real or could be faked.

Folks can go to other websites if they want to view the exchange, but we prefer the link not be posted on DBR. I edited a couple of your posts to remove the part where you quote the post that contained the link, but left your comments.

Thanks for understanding.

WiJoe
02-05-2011, 09:47 PM
One Drew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

Tremendous. A true knee slapper.

:cool:

moonpie23
02-05-2011, 09:53 PM
i am friends to both, it was true....i followed it.....it was accurate...


just fyi...i've worked with rashad. maybe he treats his music differently than he treats his basketball, but i've always found him to be hard working, straight forward, realistic, open to criticism,very creative and above all.....easy to get along with....

it's not a secret that he doesn't hold ol roy in very high esteem....

Newton_14
02-05-2011, 10:00 PM
i am friends to both, it was true....i followed it.....it was accurate...


just fyi...i've worked with rashad. maybe he treats his music differently than he treats his basketball, but i've always found him to be hard working, straight forward, realistic, open to criticism,very creative and above all.....easy to get along with....

it's not a secret that he doesn't hold ol roy in very high esteem....

Thanks MP. I thought it was likely real, but you never know with technology so that is why I put the disclaimer. I could not believe how disrespectful that one guy was with both Mr. McCants and Rashad. Much like the Maryland guy tweeting Nolan, that guy on FB was way out of line. I continue to be amazed with the lunatic fans, though I wonder why. Putting lunatics in front of a computer with anonymity creates these situations I guess.

devildeac
02-05-2011, 10:27 PM
Sounds like ol' roy took umbrage to McCants' comments comparing unc bball to prison, and then got even when scouts asked ol' roy about drafting McCants, and continues to leg-sweep McCants to this day at any chance he gets.

Yeah, ol' roy is just some ol' naive country bumpkin, he don't know nothin' about politics or destroying a player's reputation or career!

Any wonder the kids leave without saying anything? I'm sure word gets around: ol' roy is a vindictive S.O.B. who will torpedo a player's future if he feels betrayed. Why tell him in person if he is just going to threaten to destroy your career if you leave?

Just slip out the back, Jack ...

Make a new plan, Stan ...

Have Dad tell him you're through, Drew (II) ...

You left out the best lyrics:

You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop under the bus, Gus

(well, I did change one word:rolleyes:)

-bdbd
02-05-2011, 11:44 PM
As for the debate itself, i.e. whether LD II's transfer is indicative of Roy's character flaws, for now we will have to agree to disagree. It would seem that many of you blame the transfer, as well as the fact that it was announced suddenly by parents rather than the players' themselves, on Roy's arrogance/ harshness/ willingness to dump on his players/ hypocrisy, etc. Many also seem to see it as a trend that is indicative of a larger problem in the UNC program- a problem that is a function of an out-of-touch coaching staff and an entitled/ vitriolic fanbase. If you are right, then going forward Roy should have trouble drawing top-notch recruiting classes and UNC should be above the mean for transfers among the major college basketball programs- whatever that mean may actually be. I'll wager that you will be wrong- we'll continue to get our share of top recruits and our transfers will fall within the normal range, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Chicago - that's a fair, reasoned response. But I would argue that we've already seen many indicators of that trend. Do you want to argue that recruiting over the last five years has, overall, gone as well as the 'heel faithful would have expected? (HB is the only really big recruit over that whole timeframe, and while he could still turn it around, he hasn't exactly been a great advertisement for Roy's overall coaching/development abilities to date....) And we're talking about quite a few kids who've left on angry/poor terms with Roy in those years as well... Obviously the trememndous facillities, tradition, exposure, huge resources, large fanbase, media representation, etc. will ensure that UNC gets a minimum quotiant of recruits. But I think the litmus test is whether there will there be a return to the sorts of recruiting classes that Dean used to regularly pull in, or that y'all saw a couple times early last decade.

As you say, time will tell.

davekay1971
02-06-2011, 12:32 AM
Drew transferring is a red flag mainly because he's a junior, unusually late to see a transfer, and because it's so sudden, with no warning in the middle of a reasonably successful season. A former starter with aspirations (whether realistic or not) to play in the NBA transferring once he's lost his starting job is not unheard of. But in mid-season? Of his junior year?

I want to be fair to Roy, but it's hard to see both the Wear transfers and the Drew transfer as just the normal transfers you expect to see from blue chip programs. The Wears could reasonably have expected big minutes this year and, in fact, Carolina had to grab a last minute fill-in to cover the gap their transfers left. Now Drew, who may very well have been frustrated by the direction his career was going at UNC, transfers with a month left in the season? Why not wait until season end? He'll have to wait out a year and have only a year of eligibility left either way.

Therefore I think it's reasonable to conclude that these transfers show that the kids had a specific problem with playing at Carolina. We can't say, without more information from the players themselves, whether their problem was with Roy, the University, the fanbase, or some combination of the above.

So far whatever buzz may be out there about Roy and UNC hasn't hurt his recruiting much. They have a top 5 class coming in next year, a solid commit for 2012 and a laundry list of top talent listing UNC among their considerations. We'll see how it turns out...and we'll see if we find out more about Drew's reasons for the sudden transfer, and what kind of light that casts on Roy and the program.

DevilHorns
02-06-2011, 12:59 AM
http://eye-on-college-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/27392866

The ''UNC family squabbles" have hit CBSsports.

Let's see if it reaches ESPN...

nocilla
02-06-2011, 08:24 AM
I don't know the validity of this, but a UNC friend of mine shared this;

@SharonDrew my baby will be starting in the league next year and that will show those NC hillbillies who was right!

Supposedly, this is the latest "tweet" from LD2's mama. I think the parents may carry more blame in this situation than Roy.

Duvall
02-06-2011, 08:33 AM
I don't know the validity of this, but a UNC friend of mine shared this;

@SharonDrew my baby will be starting in the league next year and that will show those NC hillbillies who was right!

Supposedly, this is the latest "tweet" from LD2's mama. I think the parents may carry more blame in this situation than Roy.

That tweet is fake - that's not Drew's mother's Twitter account.

It's amazing what UNC fans will do to destroy someone that tries to hurt the "family." UNC basketball cannot fail; it can only be failed.

kong123
02-06-2011, 08:38 AM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=rivals-1185535

El_Diablo
02-06-2011, 08:51 AM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=rivals-1185535

An editorial completely devoid of any facts, but at least it fits with the meme that UNC fans like to perpetuate, that shifts blame to the parents rather than consider that there's a bigger problem within the program (basically the same knee-jerk reaction we saw when the Wears left).

kong123
02-06-2011, 08:54 AM
An editorial completely devoid of any facts, but at least it fits with the meme that UNC fans like to perpetuate, that shifts blame to the parents rather than consider that there's a bigger problem within the program (basically the same knee-jerk reaction we saw when the Wears left).

if it vilified Roy, you would say it was right on target.

77devil
02-06-2011, 09:00 AM
I understand why it is done, you are Duke fans and you hate him, but it is still wrong. Sometimes things happen and it surprises everyone. This is one of those situations.

You've made this accusation repeatedly on the board. I think you misunderstand most of the fan base at DBR. We like to make fun of Huck because he's such an easy target , a hypocrite who often makes a fool of himself. But hate? That's a really strong emotion. I think you have to care a lot to hate and I, for one, just don't care enough about Ol' Roy to hate him. He's a nuisance, no doubt, an annoyance for sure. But I guess I just don't give enough of a crap about Roy to hate him.

wilko
02-06-2011, 09:01 AM
if it vilified Roy, you would say it was right on target.

know your audience...

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-06-2011, 09:04 AM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=rivals-1185535

Many of the comments (and the accompanying thumbs up/down), which I can only assume are coming from heel fans, are just appalling. I'm sure I'd be pissed too but telling a kid "good riddance" is such bad form.

Orange&BlackSheep
02-06-2011, 09:04 AM
I think a more positive chant would be IF we lead the game.. "you need Larry"
(clap-clap-clapclapclap)

That is so much the better way of "broaching" this subject.

stillcrazie
02-06-2011, 09:06 AM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=rivals-1185535

One thing I agreed with in the article: maybe Roy should not have recruited LDII in the first place. You recruit the parents along with the student. I have a hard time believing that his parents' behavior was not obvious from the start. You observe these things during visits. I cannot imagine Coach K being willing to put up with that for a second.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-06-2011, 09:09 AM
That is so much the better way of "broaching" this subject.

Anyone think this is one of those situations where Coach K steps in preemptively telling the crazies this is off limits?

El_Diablo
02-06-2011, 09:13 AM
if it vilified Roy, you would say it was right on target.

I understand if you share the same opinions as the author, but let's be honest--it's not journalism. It's basically a glorified message board post, presenting a bunch of rumors and speculation as if they were facts, and then drawing conclusions from them.

If the situation were reversed and the author was instead vilifying Roy, I would certainly find it amusing, but I wouldn't really lend it more credence than anyone else posting their views here on DBR or over on IC.

Duvall
02-06-2011, 09:16 AM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=rivals-1185535

Case in point. Now that the Drew family has called into question the harmony and infallibility of UNC basketball, they must be destroyed.

But hey, now that Larry Drew/Will Graves/Travis Wear/David Wear/Deon Thompson/Ed Davis is gone, UNC's chemistry problems should finally be gone, right?

Kdogg
02-06-2011, 09:34 AM
Do you want to argue that recruiting over the last five years has, overall, gone as well as the 'heel faithful would have expected? (HB is the only really big recruit over that whole timeframe, and while he could still turn it around, he hasn't exactly been a great advertisement for Roy's overall coaching/development abilities to date....)

The same could be said about Duke until we landed Irving and Rivers. How many players did we miss (Patterson, Monroe, Barnes, McDonald, etc...)?

For UNC, though, that's not really accurate which makes their struggles more shocking. John Henson was in the top five and some had him one overall in is class. Reggie Bullock was a top ten recruit; Ed Davis was top 15. Until the current recruiting cycle, Roy's pretty much gotten the players he wanted. The big misses have been Ryan Kelly (yeah) and John Wall (who never would have been permitted to attend UNC.) The problem has been evalution, development and leadership. IMHO, I don't believe Roy's recovered from the graduation of Hansbrough. He made life easy. The guy set the tone on the court and in the locker room. His absence (and that of Fazor) has lead to a leadership void. Nobody has picked up that mantle.

kong123
02-06-2011, 09:39 AM
this is a very fair comment.

Bluedevil114
02-06-2011, 09:54 AM
The same could be said about Duke until we landed Irving and Rivers. How many players did we miss (Patterson, Monroe, Barnes, McDonald, etc...)?

For UNC, though, that's not really accurate which makes their struggles more shocking. John Henson was in the top five and some had him one overall in is class. Reggie Bullock was a top ten recruit; Ed Davis was top 15. Until the current recruiting cycle, Roy's pretty much gotten the players he wanted. The big misses have been Ryan Kelly (yeah) and John Wall (who never would have been permitted to attend UNC.) The problem has been evalution, development and leadership. IMHO, I don't believe Roy's recovered from the graduation of Hansbrough. He made life easy. The guy set the tone on the court and in the locker room. His absence (and that of Fazor) has lead to a leadership void. Nobody has picked up that mantle.

McDonald? When did we offer a McDonald and miss? Did you mean Kenny Boynton or Brandan Wright?

moonpie23
02-06-2011, 09:57 AM
if it vilified Roy, you would say it was right on target.

can you offer any FACTS that what he said was NOT true.

i think the FACT that this is not the first incident speaks loudly. I'm not putting it all on roy, but i'm not saying there's nothing wrong either..

i know you would tend to lean towards protecting roy in this situation, kong, but.....there's some stinky stuff in the unc sauce these days....

El_Diablo
02-06-2011, 10:00 AM
McDonald? When did we offer a McDonald and miss?

Leslie McDonald...about three years ago.

Kdogg
02-06-2011, 10:01 AM
McDonald? When did we offer a McDonald and miss? Did you mean Kenny Boynton or Brandan Wright?

We recruited and offered a scholarship to Leslie McDonald. He picked UNC.
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?6002-Duke-has-offered-Leslie-McDonald

miramar
02-06-2011, 10:11 AM
The problem has been evalution, development and leadership. IMHO, I don't believe Roy's recovered from the graduation of Hansbrough. He made life easy. The guy set the tone on the court and in the locker room. His absence (and that of Fazor) has lead to a leadership void. Nobody has picked up that mantle.

This may be the only time I ever do this, but I don't think we can blame ol' Roy entirely for improper evaluation and development of recruits (although we can certainly blame him for a lot of other things). As Luke DeCock indicates in the N&O, the problems with C.J. Leslie and Drew II remind us "that recruiting is an inexact art and Internet star ratings aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on."

Not long ago (1-2 years ago, but it seems much longer) everyone was blaming Coach K for the same thing, but the reality was that some guys simply don't play as well as all the experts and coaches expect. The incoming class of 2005 was supposed to be the best in the country (with three McDonald's AAs in McRoberts, Paulus, and Eric Boateng) but four years later the graduating class of 2009 became the first in Coach K's tenure to see four losses in Cameron to UNC.

Having said that, I agree that Hansbrough made Roy look like a genius, and I think a lot of people bought the story that he had Coach K on the ropes (or down for the count, as we saw in one pre-season magazine).

Since these evaluation and development problems can happen to anyone, the question is whether Roy will fix the problem as well as Coach K has. I'm sure I don't have to tell you my prediction, but time will tell.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/06/971408/pack-goes-from-bad-to-worse.html#ixzz1DBulesXf

swood1000
02-06-2011, 10:21 AM
Remember Roy's quote about parents?


“…I’ve got half the guys on my team that their mom and dad and their friends and everything think that they’re going to make $88 million. They could give a flip whether we win a game or not. They want their guy to get 37 shots and play 50 minutes in a 40-minute game. http://triadsportsdaily.com/post/2814452119I wonder if Roy finally couldn't take it any more and let Drew's mom have a piece of his mind.

gumbomoop
02-06-2011, 11:08 AM
Remember Roy's quote about parents?

I wonder if Roy finally couldn't take it any more and let Drew's mom have a piece of his mind.

“…I’ve got half the guys on my team that their mom and dad and their friends and everything think that they’re going to make $88 million. They could give a flip whether we win a game or not. They want their guy to get 37 shots and play 50 minutes in a 40-minute game." http://triadsportsdaily.com/post/2814452119

Like swood1000, and probably many posters, I do assume this striking - and, however understandable, also strikingly impolitic - comment by Roy referred, first among others, to Drew's parents. But I'm mildly curious about whether there are in fact "others," and what that might portend.

One should assume that, when Roy said "half the guys," he didn't mean literally half, i.e., 4 or 5 problem outsiders. But did he mean more than the Drews? If he meant, say, a couple other outsiders, that would be something to watch out for. I got no clue as to which players' parents, "friends and everything" might be complaining, but Heel supporters should hope that there's a silver lining to Drew's departure in the added 20 minutes of PT for other ballyhooed HS stars.

Roy and K do have this potential problem of lots of HS stars to satisfy with PT. Duke has lost a few because of this, and may again someday in the future. I've always wondered how Roy kept them all around - until he didn't. FWIW [absolutely nuthin'], I'll be surprised if McDonald sticks around. Right now the bad vibes are in CH, not Durham. Still, a win today v. FSU, and a good game, even a close loss, v. Duke will perk up the Heels and Heel "faithful," which term I use loosely, as will be demonstrated should other results ensue today and Wed.

ChicagoHeel
02-06-2011, 11:11 AM
This may be the only time I ever do this, but I don't think we can blame ol' Roy entirely for improper evaluation and development of recruits (although we can certainly blame him for a lot of other things). As Luke DeCock indicates in the N&O, the problems with C.J. Leslie and Drew II remind us "that recruiting is an inexact art and Internet star ratings aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on."

Not long ago (1-2 years ago, but it seems much longer) everyone was blaming Coach K for the same thing, but the reality was that some guys simply don't play as well as all the experts and coaches expect. The incoming class of 2005 was supposed to be the best in the country (with three McDonald's AAs in McRoberts, Paulus, and Eric Boateng) but four years later the graduating class of 2009 became the first in Coach K's tenure to see four losses in Cameron to UNC.

Having said that, I agree that Hansbrough made Roy look like a genius, and I think a lot of people bought the story that he had Coach K on the ropes (or down for the count, as we saw in one pre-season magazine).

Since these evaluation and development problems can happen to anyone, the question is whether Roy will fix the problem as well as Coach K has. I'm sure I don't have to tell you my prediction, but time will tell.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/06/971408/pack-goes-from-bad-to-worse.html#ixzz1DBulesXf

I agree with much of the above. Hasbrough played really well starting in his first year, got better over time, and stuck around four years, which makes a coach look very good. And just as I would not conclude that, because Hansbrough became the ACC leading scorer Roy therefore excels at player development, I would not conclude that LD II's struggles or the fact that Henson did not burst out of the starting gate is evidence that he cannot evaluate talent or help players develop. Assume that Irving had experienced the typical freshman struggles that Barnes has, and that Singler had left for the NBA- two scenarios that are entirely reasonable. Duke obviously would not have been as good this year and more pressure would have been on the Plumlees, who in the view of many have performed okay but not quite lived up to their billing thus far. The message boards would be filled with the comments of a few years ago about how K can't develop big men. Or switch it around, McRoberts stays and Hans bolts- suddenly Roy doesn't have two titles and people aren't concluding that he has surpassed K. My point- it's a fine balance and it is too easy to read too much from a single case or two.

oldnavy
02-06-2011, 11:47 AM
I agree with much of the above. Hasbrough played really well starting in his first year, got better over time, and stuck around four years, which makes a coach look very good. And just as I would not conclude that, because Hansbrough became the ACC leading scorer Roy therefore excels at player development, I would not conclude that LD II's struggles or the fact that Henson did not burst out of the starting gate is evidence that he cannot evaluate talent or help players develop. Assume that Irving had experienced the typical freshman struggles that Barnes has, and that Singler had left for the NBA- two scenarios that are entirely reasonable. Duke obviously would not have been as good this year and more pressure would have been on the Plumlees, who in the view of many have performed okay but not quite lived up to their billing thus far. The message boards would be filled with the comments of a few years ago about how K can't develop big men. Or switch it around, McRoberts stays and Hans bolts- suddenly Roy doesn't have two titles and people aren't concluding that he has surpassed K. My point- it's a fine balance and it is too easy to read too much from a single case or two.

Why play the what if game, that is a waste of time and endless outcomes.

The bottomline for UNC now is that there is a problem in CH. Players sneaking out of town, players getting kicked off the team, Roy blowing up at "fans" of his radio show and the list goes on.

Fans on both sides can spin it anyway they want, but the one fact is that the situation over there is not ideal, and is bringing bad press to UNC.

jimsumner
02-06-2011, 11:48 AM
Chicago - that's a fair, reasoned response. But I would argue that we've already seen many indicators of that trend. Do you want to argue that recruiting over the last five years has, overall, gone as well as the 'heel faithful would have expected? (HB is the only really big recruit over that whole timeframe, and while he could still turn it around, he hasn't exactly been a great advertisement for Roy's overall coaching/development abilities to date....) And we're talking about quite a few kids who've left on angry/poor terms with Roy in those years as well... Obviously the trememndous facillities, tradition, exposure, huge resources, large fanbase, media representation, etc. will ensure that UNC gets a minimum quotiant of recruits. But I think the litmus test is whether there will there be a return to the sorts of recruiting classes that Dean used to regularly pull in, or that y'all saw a couple times early last decade.

As you say, time will tell.


No doubt the transfers and their context is disturbing for UNC. But the statement with which I have problems is that Barnes is UNC's only "really big recruit" over the last five years. Any rational observer would regard Ed Davis, John Henson and James McAdoo as really big recruits. Tyler Zeller was a consensus top-20 recruit and he's going to play in the NBA for a long time. Reggie Bullock was consensus #15, exactly where Elliott Williams was two seasons prior. P.J. Hairston is #15 in the class of 2011.

There have been some high-profile misses, Kevin Love, Samardo Samuels, Delvon Roe, Austin Rivers, et. al. But that applies to any program, Duke's included. As long as UNC is bringing in top-25 prospects on a regular basis, I'm going to have a hard time seeing a significant erosion in their recruiting position.

Vanceman201
02-06-2011, 11:58 AM
Some random and not-so-random observations and comments. I'll qualify what I say first by stating that we are dealing with an impressionable young man..who may have had legitimate reasons to bolt...ones that WE may never hear of. Let's say for the sake of argument that his problems were basketball related.

1) I love Carolina...I don't hate Duke, K, players, or fans. I think Duke does it right
with student-athletes who seem to give 100% at all times. WE haven't always done that to my dismay.

2) You need to nickname Nolan...something to reference Special Ops -- Army Ranger --Rambo...something. He scares me. He's a ghost. He can kill you with 3's, drive to the rack, dish, shoot short and long, and somehow get under your big guys and clean up a rebound which he puts in before you know he's there -- in other words -- he'll slit your throat before you even know he's there. He's an assassin...and he enjoys it.

I've read dozens of posts on this LDII thing and have concluded many things about all this...and, just as you, I don't know...and may never know the real facts.
Allow me to share some of my thoughts.

3) It's a pleasure to read most posts on here as they are generally well thought out and balanced...even when anti-Heel. However, I get the creeps when someone says something mildly positive, understanding, or kind about UNC...then feels as though they must turn around and explain or apologize for it. Are you afraid that the other Duke fans will think you're soft? Afraid to be scolded for not being enough anti-UNC. If you have guts enough to say it...have guts enough to stand behind it. It's weird to read these "but, I still hate UNC/Roy/etc..." comments.
Reminds me of something you'd read on some little girl's note that she just passed to a friend in her middle school math class.

4) Duke teaches statistics, logic, psychology, etc...right? Makes no sense to accuse the administration, coach, etc...when a few bail out and complain...weighted against all the ones who stayed, are happy, and who persevere.

5) Be careful piling on too much during this. May just be in the cards for Duke to
encounter adversity...and one would hope for measured responses from Heeldom.

6) I believe there could be more to this than basketball.

7) I agree with the comments that LDII took too much grief from our side for the ills UNC has had the past two years. And, even if the observations were accurate...they
were presented in a hurtful way and that's wrong...especially for young people. All fans, of any color, should do better. I wasn't proud of Heeldom for this.

8) I wonder how the other UNC players felt when LDII bolted to the West Coast to
play/train during the off-season. Might have damaged friendships.

9) I think LDI and mommy were possibly too involved in some things. Firstly, they may have convinced him that UNC was HIS vehicle to stardom. Wasn't working out. Mommy makes phone call(s) to complain? (not confirmed)....probably aggravates the staff.
When LDII is put in an off-the-bench mode for the betterment of the TEAM....well,
that seemingly didn't jive with the NBA Gameplan set forth by the Drew Household.

10) LDI making the call was goofy. If you're not tough enough to face down Roy (even if he can be a jerk)...then, are you tough enough to play against Duke?
I think not.

11) How could LDII and mommy support a son bailing out on his team. There is such a thing as HONOR, living with a decision, sticking out a tough spot, etc....What does this teach a young man? I believe, sadly, that this will brand him as a quitter. In life...what team, what employer, what friend, what mate....wants to fear that someone will bail on you when things are rough.
May just be that if he'd stayed, hung tough, improved further in some areas...that this would have served his future better. If he isn't a premiere talent eventually...maybe a coach would have said....he works hard, improves with time, is loyal, and will never quit on anybody.
So much for that idea.
Choices.

12) In regard to #11...things were getting better....for the Tarheels and for LDII personally. Looked to me like he was in the right groove..still playing 20+ minutes...doing more positive things, fewer negative things for HIS team...you know...your friends, your university, your coach...YOUR future.

Now...I do have a theory about the timing of LDII's departure that mirrors my own experience...though mine involves a marriage that dissolved.
Mostly very happy marriage (mild glitches for a short time)...I get ditched like the TWO guys before me. When she was certain she was done with me, she was careful to arrange one more dynamic amorous encounter between us. She was very enthusiastic in her approach to this "parting shot".
You would have thought I was the man of her dreams still.
A well planned scheme to drill into my brain what I'd be missing.

Of course, two weeks later...I was history. Over and out.

LDII is unhappy mostly with Heel fandom...can't connect with players, friends on a
deeper level for some reason. Has entitlement ingrained deep into his soul. Hasn't connected well with Roy (who may be partly to blame)....and all this unhappiness is
further enhanced by his parents unwavering support and encouragement.

I wouldn't be surprised if this happened...and we may never know.

So, when the Heels have an excellent game at BC...running a clinic really....things gelling, people scrambling, playing smart.....Drew has a fine game....is praised by his coach, friends, and fans far and wide...roles getting sorted out, etc....

Well, what better time to take the "parting shot". In other words...see how good I am...this is what you're gonna be missing. I wouldn't doubt that his family/advisers promoted the idea...Now's the time.

To me though...he will hurt more by this than will UNC.
Time will tell.

jimsumner
02-06-2011, 12:07 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but the player who left UNC is Larry Drew III. That's 3. His father, the NBA coach is Larry Drew II. That's a 2.

wilson
02-06-2011, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but the player who left UNC is Larry Drew III. That's 3. His father, the NBA coach is Larry Drew II. That's a 2.This is incorrect. The former unc player is Larry Drew II (two). The Hawks' coach is Larry Drew (the first).

Bob Green
02-06-2011, 12:16 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but the player who left UNC is Larry Drew III. That's 3. His father, the NBA coach is Larry Drew II. That's a 2.

Jim, I feel like I'm skating out onto very thin ice by disagreeing with you, but Larry Drew's bio at the NBA's Atlanta Hawks webpage refers to the coach as Larry Drew and his son as Larry Drew II.

http://www.nba.com/coachfile/larry_drew/index.html?nav=page

dball
02-06-2011, 12:55 PM
12)
Now...I do have a theory about the timing of LDII's departure that mirrors my own experience...though mine involves a marriage that dissolved.
Mostly very happy marriage (mild glitches for a short time)...I get ditched like the TWO guys before me. When she was certain she was done with me, she was careful to arrange one more dynamic amorous encounter between us. She was very enthusiastic in her approach to this "parting shot".
You would have thought I was the man of her dreams still.
A well planned scheme to drill into my brain what I'd be missing.

Of course, two weeks later...I was history. Over and out.


TMI, dude

gumbomoop
02-06-2011, 12:56 PM
I agree with much of the above. Hasbrough played really well starting in his first year, got better over time, and stuck around four years, which makes a coach look very good. And just as I would not conclude that, because Hansbrough became the ACC leading scorer Roy therefore excels at player development, I would not conclude that LD II's struggles or the fact that Henson did not burst out of the starting gate is evidence that he cannot evaluate talent or help players develop. Assume that Irving had experienced the typical freshman struggles that Barnes has, and that Singler had left for the NBA- two scenarios that are entirely reasonable. Duke obviously would not have been as good this year and more pressure would have been on the Plumlees, who in the view of many have performed okay but not quite lived up to their billing thus far. The message boards would be filled with the comments of a few years ago about how K can't develop big men. Or switch it around, McRoberts stays and Hans bolts- suddenly Roy doesn't have two titles and people aren't concluding that he has surpassed K. My point- it's a fine balance and it is too easy to read too much from a single case or two.

This is an excellent post, save for my disagreement with the bolded part, which may or may not detract from its excellence.

I disagree firmly with the idea that it's "reasonable" that Kyrie would have "experienced the typical freshman struggles." There was in fact a bit of a debate on DBR back in August-October about whether some of us were overstating Kyrie's impact, for exactly the reason you state. But some of us also said, "Nope, Kyrie's special. The eye test [several televised HS games, 2 AllStar games] doesn't lie. K has fair gushed at his specialness; K doesn't do that, so something's up here. A couple of anonymous - but obviously brilliant - coaches and scouts have said Irving is the best and Duke's gonna win again." Etc.

In short, Kyrie is an "unreasonable" player [i.e., there's no logical reason for his skills, and, well, he cannot be reasoned with, by defenders, for example], which K and other experts saw, absolutely clearly, and which quite a few posters saw at least hopefully.

As for Singler's departure - a more reasonable scenario to be sure - we had that covered: Carrick Felix. So, no problem.....

Billy Dat
02-06-2011, 01:26 PM
Now...I do have a theory about the timing of LDII's departure that mirrors my own experience...though mine involves a marriage that dissolved.
Mostly very happy marriage (mild glitches for a short time)...I get ditched like the TWO guys before me. When she was certain she was done with me, she was careful to arrange one more dynamic amorous encounter between us. She was very enthusiastic in her approach to this "parting shot".
You would have thought I was the man of her dreams still.
A well planned scheme to drill into my brain what I'd be missing.


Vaneceman - I think we need an new "Off Topic" thread to hear the details of this personal revelation. If that's working too blue for this board, you can send me the details in a private message. Just make sure it begins, "I was a sophomore at a small midwestern college, I never thought stories like this were true until something happened to me one day that changed my mind...."

swood1000
02-06-2011, 01:28 PM
Jim, I feel like I'm skating out onto very thin ice by disagreeing with you, but Larry Drew's bio at the NBA's Atlanta Hawks webpage refers to the coach as Larry Drew and his son as Larry Drew II.

http://www.nba.com/coachfile/larry_drew/index.html?nav=page

I always thought that if a person named "Larry Drew" had a son, the son was Larry Drew, Jr., and the next son was Larry Drew III. If a person named Larry Drew had a grandson named after him, that person would be Larry Drew II. But of course, people can use whatever names they want.

Vanceman201
02-06-2011, 01:33 PM
An astute friend of mine hypothesized this. What if part of the Wear's thinking was: LDI is going to be the PG in the near future. We don't get the ball nearly as much as we should. Back to California is sounding better and better.
Could this have been part of the Wear equation?

kong123
02-06-2011, 01:39 PM
An astute friend of mine hypothesized this. What if part of the Wear's thinking was: LDI is going to be the PG in the near future. We don't get the ball nearly as much as we should. Back to California is sounding better and better.
Could this have been part of the Wear equation?

I believe the Wears left for personal reasons. I think their parents wanted them closer to them. I don't believe there were any rumors out there that they were treated poorly or were not getting PT. I ultimately believe that both their transfer and LD's transfer were decisions made by the parents.

gumbomoop
02-06-2011, 01:43 PM
I always thought that if a person named "Larry Drew" had a son, the son was Larry Drew, Jr., and the next son was Larry Drew III. If a person named Larry Drew had a grandson named after him, that person would be Larry Drew II. But of course, people can use whatever names they want.

Q: How many Larry Drews does it take to mess up the Heels?

A: None

diveonthefloor
02-06-2011, 01:54 PM
I always thought that if a person named "Larry Drew" had a son, the son was Larry Drew, Jr., and the next son was Larry Drew III. If a person named Larry Drew had a grandson named after him, that person would be Larry Drew II. But of course, people can use whatever names they want.

I have always wondered about this. Did he use the "II" because "junior" sounds a bit juvenile? Never made any sense to me.

The more interesting question now is: Since LD the father has been reported to be behind the whole transfer, what does he expect will happen to his son, and exactly how good a baller does he think his son can become? For an NBA head coach to be that disillusioned is sort of bizarre.

swood1000
02-06-2011, 02:06 PM
For an NBA head coach to be that disillusioned is sort of bizarre.

Did you mean "illusioned" (if that is even a word)?

El_Diablo
02-06-2011, 02:16 PM
The more interesting question now is: Since LD the father has been reported to be behind the whole transfer, what does he expect will happen to his son, and exactly how good a baller does he think his son can become? For an NBA head coach to be that disillusioned is sort of bizarre.

Which is why the blame-shifting meme does not make much sense. The dad is doing this in a coldly calculating way to maximize his son's "NBA stock," but he doesn't see something as plain as this? If you wanted to maximize stock, you'd make him transfer before the year, or at the semester break, in order to preserve that time for future use. Or, worst case, you make him leave after the spring semester is over and he's gotten more playing experience. You don't leave mid-semester like that unless you are (1) extremely unhappy, (2) hate your coach, or (3) some combination of (1) and (2) and perhaps some other factors.

Rather than string together some implausible story about the parents, it's much more reasonable to assume that LDII was simply unhappy and wanted out. Maybe the parents supported his decision, but I find it hard to believe that he was forced out just because his parents "wanted" him to play elsewhere for one year in pursuit of an NBA job. Just as with the Wear twins, it's likely nothing more than a cop-out BS story spun by the UNC faithful to avoid the notion that there are bigger issues at play in Chapel Hill.

Whatever the reasons, that's four players gone in eight months (Wear, Wear, Graves, Drew). And a recruit with the best inside knowledge of the UNC program possible (Cody Zeller) said "um, thanks, but no thanks" when Roy offered him a scholarship. Maybe the UNC fans are right, and it's just a series of unrelated coincidences, but I have my doubts.

DevilWearsPrada
02-06-2011, 02:25 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but the player who left UNC is Larry Drew III. That's 3. His father, the NBA coach is Larry Drew II. That's a 2.

I am a girl, and I know the NBA coach is Larry Drew Sr, and the former Unc basketball player is Larry Drew II, (he dates or dated Eddie Murphy's daughter).

Or, as I call him: Larry WithDrew...........

and as always,
Go Duke!!!

stillcrazie
02-06-2011, 02:28 PM
[QUOTE=

Or, as I call him: Larry WithDrew...........

[/QUOTE]

This is fantastic.

MCFinARL
02-06-2011, 02:37 PM
Did you mean "illusioned" (if that is even a word)?

or maybe "delusional"?

Devilsfan
02-06-2011, 02:55 PM
I bet he meant "delusional". It was just in tar heel english 101 speak. In other words Larry withDrew might have been "Larry Pulled Out" of unc.

TampaDukie
02-06-2011, 03:37 PM
I always thought that if a person named "Larry Drew" had a son, the son was Larry Drew, Jr., and the next son was Larry Drew III. If a person named Larry Drew had a grandson named after him, that person would be Larry Drew II. But of course, people can use whatever names they want.

FWIW, my brother is a II, because my mom hates the suffix "Jr.". So I've always assumed it was just a matter of preference.

BD80
02-06-2011, 03:54 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but the player who left UNC is Larry Drew III. That's 3. His father, the NBA coach is Larry Drew II. That's a 2.

So Drew's a two-two, or is he a two-too?

kong123
02-06-2011, 04:20 PM
Wonder if guys like Tony Parker and other big recruits considering UNC see KM's performance and want to play with him. I think recruits focus on stuff like KM's performance rather than a player quitting mid-season. They respect someone who can play and they do not respect someone who cannot play and then quits.

@tonyparker32
tony parker
North carolina has a point gaurd thank god

jdj4duke
02-06-2011, 04:35 PM
N'ah. A fan chatboard "descending into pettiness" would be one where posters constantly reference an opposing coach as a rodent, or slander the opponent's past star players as "fags" (and worse), who often state as fact that the other team's coach faked a serious injury/surgery "to avoid a losing season," or where thousands of fans/posters brutalize a 19-year-old's character and ethics, first for months/years while he doesn't meet their performance expectations and then once he subsequently flees. Do you know any place like that???

The best summary of that place that was ever written. You got all the little buzzy taglines that are the fan favorites.

diveonthefloor
02-06-2011, 04:42 PM
I bet he meant "delusional". It was just in tar heel english 101 speak. In other words Larry withDrew might have been "Larry Pulled Out" of unc.

Yep, thanks for supplying the word. My internal thesaurus burped on me.

Sorta like cryptofatuous. ha!

OldPhiKap
02-06-2011, 05:22 PM
Do you know any place like that?

Congress?


UNC looked pretty good today without LD II, but he was not really tested on defense. I think that is where we will see the real situation with Carolina, good or bad. Nolan, put on your running shoes buddy. Time to drive.

ncexnyc
02-06-2011, 05:38 PM
Congress?


UNC looked pretty good today without LD II, but he was not really tested on defense. I think that is where we will see the real situation with Carolina, good or bad. Nolan, put on your running shoes buddy. Time to drive.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks Marshall will be guarding Smith. The smart play is for Strickland to guard Smith and let Marshall focus on being a PG. I don't believe Seth or Andre has a good enough handle to exploit Marshall on the drive, but Dre could shoot over him.

I also found it funny how when our kids play 35+ minutes, we're running them into the ground and we'll be hurt by tired legs come tourney time, yet today KM played 36 in a game that really wasn't in doubt, but yet that's fine.

shoutingncu
02-06-2011, 05:47 PM
I think people are missing the point (no pun intended)...

Larry Drew removes himself from the running of being (one of) the first Tar Heels to win two National Championships.
;)

OldPhiKap
02-06-2011, 05:52 PM
I'm not sure why everyone thinks Marshall will be guarding Smith. The smart play is for Strickland to guard Smith and let Marshall focus on being a PG. I don't believe Seth or Andre has a good enough handle to exploit Marshall on the drive, but Dre could shoot over him.

Seth and Dre will run him ragged through screens all night, and he'll have to end up on Nolan through switches at some point. I am sure a focus for us will be to try to draw a few early fouls on Marshall

MChambers
02-06-2011, 06:09 PM
I'm not sure why everyone thinks Marshall will be guarding Smith. The smart play is for Strickland to guard Smith and let Marshall focus on being a PG. I don't believe Seth or Andre has a good enough handle to exploit Marshall on the drive, but Dre could shoot over him.

I also found it funny how when our kids play 35+ minutes, we're running them into the ground and we'll be hurt by tired legs come tourney time, yet today KM played 36 in a game that really wasn't in doubt, but yet that's fine.
Interestingly, not only did Marshall play 36 minutes, but Roy definitely went with his starters more than he usually does.

DukeBlueDevils47
02-06-2011, 08:24 PM
teams will now go after Kendall early every game this WILL end up being UNC's downfall...once Marshall gets into foul trouble they will have to turn to Strickland to run the point and that is definitely just not going to work out too well..

Kfanarmy
02-06-2011, 09:23 PM
One thing I agreed with in the article: maybe Roy should not have recruited LDII in the first place. You recruit the parents along with the student. I have a hard time believing that his parents' behavior was not obvious from the start. You observe these things during visits. I cannot imagine Coach K being willing to put up with that for a second. The only things I am sure were correct in that article is that it was about Larry Drew and the author is a Carolina fan who doesn't mind attacking people without supporting facts or personal first-hand knowledge.

Kfanarmy
02-06-2011, 09:30 PM
Wonder if guys like Tony Parker and other big recruits considering UNC see KM's performance and want to play with him. I think recruits focus on stuff like KM's performance rather than a player quitting mid-season. They respect someone who can play and they do not respect someone who cannot play and then quits.

@tonyparker32
tony parker
North carolina has a point gaurd thank god
cause apparently they don't have anyone capable of teaching the PG position. A kid might learn to play with his teammates but he is not going to get anything from the coaching staff.

kong123
02-06-2011, 09:51 PM
cause apparently they don't have anyone capable of teaching the PG position. A kid might learn to play with his teammates but he is not going to get anything from the coaching staff.

you completely lost me.

Greg_Newton
02-06-2011, 10:23 PM
Seth and Dre will run him ragged through screens all night, and he'll have to end up on Nolan through switches at some point. I am sure a focus for us will be to try to draw a few early fouls on Marshall

If the recent trend holds, he should be matched up against Thornton for a large part of the night, which I am VERY interested to see. Tyler was said to have gotten the best of Kendall numerous times in HS, and that matchup could very well decide the game. Here's hoping he just has a way of disrupting Kendall's game that continues next Wednesday...

Kfanarmy
02-06-2011, 10:58 PM
you completely lost me. now you know how the Wears and Drew, among others, probably feel about the Carolina coaching staff. :D Trying to say there isn't a lot of capability to actually develop the players on the staff.

kong123
02-06-2011, 11:28 PM
now you know how the Wears and Drew, among others, probably feel about the Carolina coaching staff. :D Trying to say there isn't a lot of capability to actually develop the players on the staff.

you sound silly. i am sure you do not actually think that if a kid transfers that it is sign that the coaching staff cannot develop? If this is what you truly think, does that mean that the coaching staff at Duke is not capable of developing a player? LD left cause he lost his starting job and his mother thought he was a first round pick. After four games of coming off the bench, Larry's numbers improved and I imagine they thought he would be given his starting job back. Once he didn't, they quit. The Wears didn't leave because they didn't get starting time. They would have both played around 15 minutes a game this year. They didn't leave because they were not getting good low post coaching, heck look at the forwards that have come out of UNC in the last few years.

I think you were trying to take a shot at Roy but missed badly.

Kfanarmy
02-07-2011, 12:54 AM
...I think you were trying to take a shot at Roy but missed badly. I was pulling your leg a bit, but do believe "you completely lost me" is how a series of young BB players have felt about the coaching staff upon leaving Carolina in the past few years...including, best as I can tell, a star point guard.

shoutingncu
02-07-2011, 01:06 AM
...a star point guard.

Star point guard?! Is that you, Mother Drew II? :)

kong123
02-07-2011, 07:11 AM
I was pulling your leg a bit, but do believe "you completely lost me" is how a series of young BB players have felt about the coaching staff upon leaving Carolina in the past few years...including, best as I can tell, a star point guard.

if Roy did in fact lose Drew, then my only complaint is that it didn't happen last summer. I imagine the FSU game was really tough for Drew to watch. Not only did the players play a good game, but his replacement set a record with assists. Drew quit on the team after Roy did everything he could to cater to him. You can develop a players skill but you cannot develop a players heart and honor. Drew became a better player in his third year, but he still didn't have what it took to be a leader.

jimsumner
02-07-2011, 12:43 PM
Yep, I was wrong, wrong, wrong about the Drew name. Brain malfunction.

I may also have been wrong about the Heels missing Drew. I was in the Smith center yesterday and they just chewed up FSU and spit them out. It's about time we disabuse ourselves of the notion that Marshall is an over-hyped mediocrity. Kid has game. Serious game.

tecumseh
02-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Of course you could name your kids like George Foreman and break all the rules
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_names_of_george_forman_kids

oldnavy
02-07-2011, 01:22 PM
if Roy did in fact lose Drew, then my only complaint is that it didn't happen last summer. I imagine the FSU game was really tough for Drew to watch. Not only did the players play a good game, but his replacement set a record with assists. Drew quit on the team after Roy did everything he could to cater to him. You can develop a players skill but you cannot develop a players heart and honor. Drew became a better player in his third year, but he still didn't have what it took to be a leader.

Dagumit KONG, I actually have to agree with you. KM just put the boot up LDI, LDII, and momma LDII's collective rear end.....

Lot's of folks were saying it would be better to start KM for most of the year, just wonder why it took Roy so long to see what was pretty obvious to the rest of the world. I think I will call into his radio show and ask him..... :)

OldPhiKap
02-07-2011, 01:28 PM
I think I will call into his radio show and ask him..... :)

If so, let me know where I can stream the show! I'd actually listen for that. LOL.

jimsumner
02-07-2011, 03:24 PM
Dagumit KONG, I actually have to agree with you. KM just put the boot up LDI, LDII, and momma LDII's collective rear end.....

Lot's of folks were saying it would be better to start KM for most of the year, just wonder why it took Roy so long to see what was pretty obvious to the rest of the world. I think I will call into his radio show and ask him..... :)

A possible answer to this question is that RW was trying to massage Drew's delicate ego. Is starting that important? Drew was getting 20 mpg off the bench and had arguably the best game of his career against BC.

Duke has had nine different players start games this season. Singler and Smith have started all of them. At some point this season, Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, Seth Curry, Ryan Kelly and Andre Dawkins all lost their starting spots in the sense that Drew lost his starting spot.

They all seem to have survived.

NSDukeFan
02-07-2011, 03:49 PM
I agree with much of the above. Hasbrough played really well starting in his first year, got better over time, and stuck around four years, which makes a coach look very good. And just as I would not conclude that, because Hansbrough became the ACC leading scorer Roy therefore excels at player development, I would not conclude that LD II's struggles or the fact that Henson did not burst out of the starting gate is evidence that he cannot evaluate talent or help players develop. Assume that Irving had experienced the typical freshman struggles that Barnes has, and that Singler had left for the NBA- two scenarios that are entirely reasonable. Duke obviously would not have been as good this year and more pressure would have been on the Plumlees, who in the view of many have performed okay but not quite lived up to their billing thus far. The message boards would be filled with the comments of a few years ago about how K can't develop big men. Or switch it around, McRoberts stays and Hans bolts- suddenly Roy doesn't have two titles and people aren't concluding that he has surpassed K. My point- it's a fine balance and it is too easy to read too much from a single case or two.
I agree with most of your points but, just to nit-pick a bit, Mason was the 18th (RSCI) ranked recruit in the class of 2009, while brother Miles was the 81st ranked recruit in the class of 2008. They are not the same and should not have had the same expectations coming in. I would suggest that Miles has certainly lived up to his billing so far, though I expect he will have a better second half of this year than first. You could make the argument that Mason has not lived up to his loftier expectation, though he is still only a sophomore and seems to be growing into someone who may get all-ACC votes.

...

As for Singler's departure - a more reasonable scenario to be sure - we had that covered: Carrick Felix. So, no problem.....

Great line.:D

94duke
02-07-2011, 05:19 PM
I didn't see this article posted.
Seth Davis calls Drew's departure "disgraceful."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/02/07/hoop.thoughts/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin

InSpades
02-07-2011, 05:31 PM
I didn't see this article posted.
Seth Davis calls Drew's departure "disgraceful."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/02/07/hoop.thoughts/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin

Disgraceful is kind of a harsh label to throw on a college kid. I can't help but think "things must have been really bad for him to leave like he did". I guess we'll never know the full story... how much of it was him being "disgraceful" and how much of it was him being treated poorly. I'm guessing neither party is entirely innocent.

One might call it disgraceful of Seth Davis to throw all the blame at LD II. Yes, the "manly" thing to do would have been to tell Roy on his own but he's not a "man". He's a junior in college who has a lot to learn (like we all did at that age).

There must have been a tipping point. Obviously he lost his starter spot but he didn't just immediately walk out. Possibly he was just measuring his response but maybe there was 1 more thing that pushed him over the edge and made him ultimately decide he had enough.

BD80
02-07-2011, 06:39 PM
... Yes, the "manly" thing to do would have been to tell Roy on his own but he's not a "man". He's a junior in college who has a lot to learn (like we all did at that age). ...

I can't see a kid that spent 2 1/2 years with Coach K or Bobby Knight (or Brad Stevens etc.) leaving without telling the coach and it being a surprise. And yes, I am dumping on ol' roy, but I believe the recent departures indicate those players did not believe ol' roy was honest with them. ol' roy's "ol' country boy" routine has gone WAY past self-effacing and is inherently dishonest.

My guess is that ol' roy sold Drew II on the demotion by pointing at stats, and promised Drew that it wasn't set in stone and that Drew could earn his starting job back. After 3 games coming off the bench and playing very well, Drew went to practice and found himself again on the the blue team. LDII probably feels like he has been thrown under the bus enough times over 2 1/2 years, and now sees the tar heel nation is crediting the heel's amazing turnaround to Marshall. With ol' roy soaking up the glory for making the change, Drew realizes that ol' roy was never going to demote Marshall. He probably couldn't bear to listen to ol' roy "aw shucks" him and lie by saying Drew had a chance to be a starter.

DevilWearsPrada
02-07-2011, 06:52 PM
I didn't see this article posted.
Seth Davis calls Drew's departure "disgraceful."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/02/07/hoop.thoughts/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin

The language of "DISGRACEFUL" doesnt sit very well with me, either. The kid is a junior in college. He didnt walk away from a game, like the kid at UWV. I dont think LD2 wanted to return after last season, but he did. You dont know what he is thinking or feeling. I know I did dumb stupid crap when I was a junior (shoot all through college).

UNC seemed to be superb without Larry Drew2 yesterday vs FSU. Kendall was almost perfect. So, there you go. Perhaps, LD2 did lose the starting PG position, but he still was a vital member of the team. And he should have realized, that Unc is going to the NCAA tourney this year.

I dont like UNC in the Duke UNC rivilary. And never pull for Unc in anything. However, I never want anything bad to happen to one of their players, or anyone, in any sporting event: fan, coach, parents, players, media, etc. I wish Larry would have stuck out the season, and just been a great Team player, and a great point guard reserve off the bench. I got so sick and tired of the Unc fans bashing him on the sports radio network. He is only a college kid.

And with what I saw during the Unc Fsu game yesterday........Duke has its work cut out for Wednesday night. Because the Tarholes are coming to Cameron, remembering what happened last year.


I wish LD2 the best in his next venture. Its too bad, he didnt discuss it with the coaching staff. You never know what this kid was thinking or pondering on day after day. For Seth Davis, to call it Disgraceful, is HARSH language. He is a kid..... And alot of growing up and time to mature later in life. LD2 has had a very sheltered and priviledged life. He has not been through the younger lives of former athletes like Elton Brand childhood, or Michael Oher (Blindside) or even the Vick brothers. And maybe the decision to leave was the Drew Family Decision.

Seth Davis should lighten up a bit, on the college kids. Thats my opinion. Just the Mother instinct in me. Give the kids a break. Good luck to LD2, in whatever he does.

But GTHC!!!!! and as always..........GO DUKE!!!

ChicagoHeel
02-07-2011, 07:03 PM
I can't see a kid that spent 2 1/2 years with Coach K or Bobby Knight (or Brad Stevens etc.) leaving without telling the coach and it being a surprise. And yes, I am dumping on ol' roy, but I believe the recent departures indicate those players did not believe ol' roy was honest with them. ol' roy's "ol' country boy" routine has gone WAY past self-effacing and is inherently dishonest.

My guess is that ol' roy sold Drew II on the demotion by pointing at stats, and promised Drew that it wasn't set in stone and that Drew could earn his starting job back. After 3 games coming off the bench and playing very well, Drew went to practice and found himself again on the the blue team. LDII probably feels like he has been thrown under the bus enough times over 2 1/2 years, and now sees the tar heel nation is crediting the heel's amazing turnaround to Marshall. With ol' roy soaking up the glory for making the change, Drew realizes that ol' roy was never going to demote Marshall. He probably couldn't bear to listen to ol' roy "aw shucks" him and lie by saying Drew had a chance to be a starter.

I agree that it is a bit much, and at least premature, to label Drew's actions 'disgraceful'. That being said, if LD II felt so angry and betrayed by Roy's actions and he knew he was leaving, as you assert, why didn't he tell Roy he was quitting? Doesn't everyone fantasize about telling off the boss he hates? Not telling anyone is more a sign of shame, embarrassment, and the overall depression those feelings induce. I am sure he doesn't have a great deal of warmth for Roy, but slinking out of town seems more a function of his sense of personal failure. And while Roy occasionally makes the impolitic comment, if anything he was overly supportive of Drew, so I don't think you can blame Roy for Drew 's fragile psychological state.

kong123
02-07-2011, 07:13 PM
I can't see a kid that spent 2 1/2 years with Coach K or Bobby Knight (or Brad Stevens etc.) leaving without telling the coach and it being a surprise. And yes, I am dumping on ol' roy, but I believe the recent departures indicate those players did not believe ol' roy was honest with them. ol' roy's "ol' country boy" routine has gone WAY past self-effacing and is inherently dishonest.

My guess is that ol' roy sold Drew II on the demotion by pointing at stats, and promised Drew that it wasn't set in stone and that Drew could earn his starting job back. After 3 games coming off the bench and playing very well, Drew went to practice and found himself again on the the blue team. LDII probably feels like he has been thrown under the bus enough times over 2 1/2 years, and now sees the tar heel nation is crediting the heel's amazing turnaround to Marshall. With ol' roy soaking up the glory for making the change, Drew realizes that ol' roy was never going to demote Marshall. He probably couldn't bear to listen to ol' roy "aw shucks" him and lie by saying Drew had a chance to be a starter.

At some point, you have to stop with the conspiracy theories. Roy lied to him and told him his benching was only temporary? Did you read this somewhere? Do you have a link? If not, then what good is there in saying it other than it makes you feel good?

BD80
02-07-2011, 09:05 PM
At some point, you have to stop with the conspiracy theories. Roy lied to him and told him his benching was only temporary? Did you read this somewhere? Do you have a link? If not, then what good is there in saying it other than it makes you feel good?

Strange as it seems, I was defending Drew. I am certain I did NOT say that ol' roy led him to believe the benching was only temporary. In fact, I gave ol' roy CREDIT for saying the right thing - that Drew would have a CHANCE to win the job back. I am suggesting that in so doing, ol' roy lied. It is as plausible as Drew playing 3 games off the bench and then just completelt melting down.

BTW, it does make me feel good to see ol' roy fail so completely in relationships with the tarheel players. I generally respect the type of person the tarheels recruit (with several very notable exceptions!), and I have been amazed that such smart kids would fall for ol' roy's "aw shucks" act. He is so phony, it makes me dislike him on the same scale I dislike Calipari when he says he cares about education. The only time you see the "real" roy are the "I don't give a s--t about carolina" moments when he lets the country boy facade slip.