PDA

View Full Version : UNC surging



moonpie23
02-01-2011, 10:25 PM
started this new thread because this ISN'T about the woes of the tarholes.....they are man-handling BC right now in BC's house... Conference road game....

HWNSNBM had his first big game against state.....

maybe all that smack talk about them wasn't such a good idea...

jipops
02-01-2011, 10:28 PM
maybe all that smack talk about them wasn't such a good idea...

It never is. It hasn't worked well for them in the past either.

Duvall
02-01-2011, 10:29 PM
It hasn't worked well for them in the past either.

This is, of course, patently false.

kong123
02-01-2011, 10:29 PM
gotta admit, I love to read all the squirming that is happening on the DBR right now, but I don't think you guys have anything to worry about. you guys are too deep and too experienced. UNC is riding high currently, but their confidence is fragile. Definitely a step in the right direction, but not a step up to the top. Yet.

dukelifer
02-01-2011, 10:37 PM
started this new thread because this ISN'T about the woes of the tarholes.....they are man-handling BC right now in BC's house... Conference road game....

HWNSNBM had his first big game against state.....

maybe all that smack talk about them wasn't such a good idea...

I am not all convinced that something bad happened to BC. Reggie Jackson is not playing well and that started at the Duke game. Without him- they have very little. And State is a mess- so UNC is beating up on teams that are having issues. That said- Barnes may be past his funk but February is always tough for Frosh.

kong123
02-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Roy Williams, ACC Coach of the Year?

dukelifer
02-01-2011, 10:50 PM
Roy Williams, ACC Coach of the Year?

Well he might actually get the team to their preseason ranking.

Duvall
02-01-2011, 10:51 PM
Roy Williams, ACC Coach of the Year?

With the ACC media, it's certainly possible.

kong123
02-01-2011, 10:52 PM
Well he might actually get the team to their preseason ranking.

:D maybe we can be competitive again?

cptnflash
02-01-2011, 10:53 PM
started this new thread because this ISN'T about the woes of the tarholes.....they are man-handling BC right now in BC's house... Conference road game....

HWNSNBM had his first big game against state.....

maybe all that smack talk about them wasn't such a good idea...

This was exactly my point in the "2nd best team in the ACC thread", which I still believe should be renamed.

For the first time all year, I'm actually worried about next week's game against UNC.

jipops
02-01-2011, 10:55 PM
Roy Williams, ACC Coach of the Year?

That certainly signifies a down year for the ACC.

Why not K? No pg, challenges in the post, yet still manages to have his team challenge for the regular season crown. Similar teams have failed to make the tournament:)

SeattleIrish
02-01-2011, 10:57 PM
Unfortunately, UNC has too much talent to be down for long. Good in the long run, for Duke/ACC, but I do enjoy it so much when they struggle:mad:

s.i.

dukelifer
02-01-2011, 10:57 PM
:D maybe we can be competitive again?

I will take them being ranked. The ACC is looking pretty bad for the conference that has generated the most NCs in the previous 10 years. One more win and they are ranked next week- just in time for the Duke game. I predict they will be around 20.

Bluedog
02-01-2011, 11:05 PM
I will take them being ranked. The ACC is looking pretty bad for the conference that has generated the most NCs in the previous 10 years. One more win and they are ranked next week- just in time for the Duke game. I predict they will be around 20.

They're currently ranked #23 in the AP poll...

dukelifer
02-01-2011, 11:11 PM
They're currently ranked #23 in the AP poll...

Well there you go. I only looked at the ESPN/USA poll. Thanks for the info.

Bob Green
02-01-2011, 11:16 PM
started this new thread because...

Thanks! Another Carolina thread is just what we needed on the EK Forum as it leads to this:


gotta admit, I love to read all the squirming that is happening on the DBR right now...

and this:


Roy Williams, ACC Coach of the Year?

Great job! :mad:

BlueThru&Thru
02-01-2011, 11:17 PM
They looked like UNC of old against BC. With 2 20+ consecutive games...say hello to MR. Barnes.

Duvall
02-01-2011, 11:18 PM
They looked like UNC of old against BC. With 2 20+ consecutive games...say hello to MR. Barnes.

Welcome back!

Now here's the real question - will Wheat's nine-month fishing excursion finally end this week?

WiJoe
02-01-2011, 11:19 PM
Thanks! Another Carolina thread is just what we needed on the EK Forum as it leads to this:



and this:



Great job! :mad:


Careful Bob, you'll get your privileges taken away. Meanwhile "ignorance is I" kong posts pix of burning Cameron, and posts away, free as a bird.
:confused:

elvis14
02-01-2011, 11:20 PM
Can we get this thread merged into the other UNC thread and just have 1 per season like we with the Duke NBA players? I really don't think we need a new UNC@CH thread every time they get better, get worse, Roy goes to the mens room or they change anything. One thing I like about DBR is that the "D" stands for DUKE.

BlueThru&Thru
02-01-2011, 11:21 PM
Actually, I'm just glad that they finally look like they're competitive again.:D

Andre Buckner Fan
02-01-2011, 11:27 PM
Actually, I'm just glad that they finally look like they're competitive again.:D

As fun as last season was, and as much as I hate the Tarholes and wanted them to lose to BC, a healthy UNC is better for the ACC. And this season the ACC needs all the help it can get.

rasputin
02-01-2011, 11:33 PM
Shouldn't it also be said that BC just failed to show up tonight? I understand that their defense is bad, but this was unbelievable. How about guarding somebody?

BlueThru&Thru
02-01-2011, 11:33 PM
As fun as last season was, and as much as I hate the Tarholes and wanted them to lose to BC, a healthy UNC is better for the ACC. And this season the ACC needs all the help it can get.

You are so correct. The ACC has been s*cking this year with only Duke looking lika a bona fide contenda. It's always more fun and way more interesting when there's competition. If they don't lapse back, I think 2/9 will be interesting.

jipops
02-01-2011, 11:54 PM
As fun as last season was, and as much as I hate the Tarholes and wanted them to lose to BC, a healthy UNC is better for the ACC. And this season the ACC needs all the help it can get.

Well they will most likely be the top team in the country next year with a combination of experience and talent at every position. So be careful what you wish for.

WiJoe
02-02-2011, 12:01 AM
Well they will most likely be the top team in the country next year with a combination of experience and talent at every position. So be careful what you wish for.

Yeah. I'm for EVERYONE being good in the conference except for the whiny blue

left_hook_lacey
02-02-2011, 12:49 AM
Okay, okay, okay. Enough is enough. Fine, UNC has muscled out some tought wins, and tonight, they beat the crap out of BC at BC. But that doesn't mean there is anything to worry about as Duke fans. Let's not forget, UNC was down by double digits in many of their ACC games this year and had to come back to win against teams they should have destroyed.

UNC is one of the worst shooting teams from the 3 point line in the ACC. They had a good night tonight, just like we had a bad night against St. J's. It happens. I promise you, we will beat UNC by at least 12 at Cameron, so don't fret. Rigtht now, we need to take care of business at UMD tomorrow night. GO DUKE!

Duvall
02-02-2011, 12:51 AM
Well they will most likely be the top team in the country next year with a combination of experience and talent at every position. So be careful what you wish for.

Sure, if by "most likely" you mean the exceedingly unlikely event that UNC is the only team whose potential first round draft picks decide to forego the NBA Draft.

DUKIE V(A)
02-02-2011, 05:48 AM
Credit to Carolina for playing some good basketball last night. It will be interesting how they do when facing the tougher half of their ACC schedule. I am going to predict an 11-5 ACC finish for them.

hudlow
02-02-2011, 08:06 AM
They won 5 games against pushovers and got their butts handed to them against Tech. Now they've won 4 straight against weak teams in an unusually weak ACC.

That's a Carolina surge.

gw67
02-02-2011, 08:13 AM
Prior to last night, I'd seen the heels play parts of several games and they nearly always looked out of sync. Not last night. It appears that their starting five is set with Marshall at the point and Barnes and Henson are beginning to play well and they join Zeller as the best frontline in the ACC. The Heels appear to have a solid nine player rotation and are clearly an NCAAT team. They have a relatively tough ACC schedule remaining but, based on last night's performance, they should end up close to the top. Their game with FSU this weekend will likely identify the 2nd best team in the ACC.

gw67

dukeballboy88
02-02-2011, 09:15 AM
UNC's early acc record is smoke and mirrors right now. Looking at their schedule the rest of the way, they will beat BC at home but they could very easily lose ever other game they have!

K lost the best player in the nation and the NBA drafts #1 pick and he still has them in the top 5. Not many teams/coaches could withstand that.

jipops
02-02-2011, 09:27 AM
Sure, if by "most likely" you mean the exceedingly unlikely event that UNC is the only team whose potential first round draft picks decide to forego the NBA Draft.

Actually, it seems far more likely that their main guys will still be around while our prized pg will not. I could be very wrong but I feel confident this is the case.

Lord Ash
02-02-2011, 09:31 AM
A few things.

First, absolutely no need for another thread. If they are working on solving their problems, it should be in that thread. Can a moderator please merge them?

Second, I never expected Carolina to be down this year at the start. They were highly ranked. They had the top recruit in the country. Then, they really seemed to fall flat on their face to start. I don't think anyone expected this, and most realistic folks thought it was likely that they would turn it around. So far, it looks like they might be (all of their losses are against excellent competition) although as a few folks have said I'd like to see a few more games before I give them a clean bill of health.

Third... come on, Kong, let's not try to be inflammatory. I don't see any "squirming." Some folks who knew Carolina would get up for the Duke game and present a challenge feel the same know as we did a few weeks ago... some folks who had written UNC off (foolishly, I might add) now feel that they can give Duke a game. Squirming? I don't think that word means what you think it means;)

Lastly... Roy for Coach of the Year? Nah... but maybe Carolina fans, who had been clamoring for Roy to start Marshall and play Bullock more.

So... any chance of a merge?

Duvall
02-02-2011, 09:33 AM
Actually, it seems far more likely that their main guys will still be around while our prized pg will not. I could be very wrong but I feel confident this is the case.

Why? They don't like money?

kong123
02-02-2011, 09:35 AM
Agreed, Duke lost a key player, but the average rank of Duke's opponents during that stretch has been 131. So while you may discredit UNC's current run, and I believe it is just a run, I feel that there are a few bad stretches left for the Heels. The facts are, they are playing better than many of us thought they would be able to after the tough start. They are learning how to win and it feels great to see them accomplish it.

_Gary
02-02-2011, 09:49 AM
Agreed, Duke lost a key player, but the average rank of Duke's opponents during that stretch has been 131.

Kong, I'm not singling you out when I say this (because I've said the same recently to Duke fans here as well): You are vastly underrating Kyrie Irving's importance to this team. He was not just a key player - he was actually the MOST important player on this year's team. I'll never back down from that statement and I believe my eyes over any manufacturered stats and rankings.

Basically, when Kyrie went down it was an early Christmas present (that unfortunately will keep on giving and giving and giving - unless a miracle happens). It was present to UNC, the rest of the ACC, and the rest of the NCAA. The playing field has now been leveled whereas before Duke was easily the team to beat. So enjoy the smack talk now knowing that the Blue Devils don't have Kyrie, the best freshman in the nation, in the lineup right now. And that's not a shot at Barnes either. I'm as serious as I can be.

Gotta agree with Bob and Ash as well. We don't need another UNC thread. Please merge this one.

ice-9
02-02-2011, 09:54 AM
KenPom actually forecasts us to lose to UNC in our final game of the conference by one point.

Something to think about -- they are a serious competitor.

CharlestonDevil
02-02-2011, 09:57 AM
Agreed, Duke lost a key player, but the average rank of Duke's opponents during that stretch has been 131. So while you may discredit UNC's current run, and I believe it is just a run, I feel that there are a few bad stretches left for the Heels. The facts are, they are playing better than many of us thought they would be able to after the tough start. They are learning how to win and it feels great to see them accomplish it.

I think we all agreed from the beginning that Kerlina had the pieces to make up a good team. It was pulling all of those parts together as one that would be the trick.

While they are playing as a TEAM for the first time this year, I can assure you that there are more bumps in the road ahead for them. How they respond to those will determine the ultimate outcome of the season.

Personally I see Henson, Barnes, and Zeller (along with some spotty, hit-or-miss guard play) playing just well enough to carry the team to the 2nd round of the tournament. At that point they will flame out, the fan base goes in to hysterics again, causing just enough aggravation and dissapointment for those 3 to depart early for the NBA.

Class of '94
02-02-2011, 09:59 AM
Agreed, Duke lost a key player, but the average rank of Duke's opponents during that stretch has been 131. So while you may discredit UNC's current run, and I believe it is just a run, I feel that there are a few bad stretches left for the Heels. The facts are, they are playing better than many of us thought they would be able to after the tough start. They are learning how to win and it feels great to see them accomplish it.

I'll be the first to admit that UNC is playing better at this point than I thought they would. I thought UNC would finish around 4th place in the ACC; and right now they are contending for first place in the ACC. I give them credit at this point; but I still think they'll finish at best in the 3rd or 4th slot of the ACC.

As far as the Duke-Carolina game next week, sorry, but I'm still not worried about that game. I think it will be a double digit loss for UNC at Cameron. And if we play our usual defense, Carolina's key players won't get off. The problem with the BC game was that BC didn't play defense on the shooters and they let HB and Bullock get into a rhythm by not guarding them on the perimeter. Duke has the size to matchup with UNC on the interior and doesn't have to overload on the inside while leaving the outside open.

And as far as the poster who said that UNC now has or is improving into having the best frontcourt in the ACC, I have to disagree. While I respect everyone's opinion, I need to see a few more games against good competition before I am ready to give them that title.

kong123
02-02-2011, 10:00 AM
Kong, I'm not singling you out when I say this (because I've said the same recently to Duke fans here as well): You are vastly underrating Kyrie Irving's importance to this team. He was not just a key player - he was actually the MOST important player on this year's team. I'll never back down from that statement and I believe my eyes over any manufacturered stats and rankings.

Basically, when Kyrie went down it was an early Christmas present (that unfortunately will keep on giving and giving and giving - unless a miracle happens). It was present to UNC, the rest of the ACC, and the rest of the NCAA. The playing field has now been leveled whereas before Duke was easily the team to beat. So enjoy the smack talk now knowing that the Blue Devils don't have Kyrie, the best freshman in the nation, in the lineup right now. And that's not a shot at Barnes either. I'm as serious as I can be.

Gotta agree with Bob and Ash as well. We don't need another UNC thread. Please merge this one.

KI is as important to Duke as Lawson was to UNC in 2009. I completely understand that point.

kong123
02-02-2011, 10:03 AM
And as far as the poster who said that UNC now has or is improving into having the best frontcourt in the ACC, I have to disagree. While I respect everyone's opinion, I need to see a few more games against good competition before I am ready to give them that title.


I remember early in the season when some on this board said that they would take Duke's frontcourt over UNC's. With the loss of KI, Duke has no inside game.

Kfanarmy
02-02-2011, 10:04 AM
While I think confidence is terribly important, poo pooing someone elses wins because they've played the bottom half of the ACC at this point is a bit reminiscent of the pot and kettle. I think Duke should win the ACC but there are no guarantees and assuming its going to happen is detrimental to mental preparation and support...I think.

_Gary
02-02-2011, 10:17 AM
KI is as important to Duke as Lawson was to UNC in 2009. I completely understand that point.

Thanks. If only some of my fellow Duke fans would get that... Sigh... :confused:

Class of '94
02-02-2011, 10:21 AM
I remember early in the season when some on this board said that they would take Duke's frontcourt over UNC's. With the loss of KI, Duke has no inside game.

I can't remember who said that and for all that I know it might have been me:D; but I think Duke's front court matches up well with UNC's. I'd take Kyle Singler's tougness and skill over HB any day of the week. I think Mason and Henson are a wash because they are very similar players. Both are very athletic, can block shots and get rebounds; but neither player has a reliable jumpshot or good back to the basket post-up moves; and both players need a good point guard to give them the ball in good positions to score. That's why I think Roy finally putting Marshall in as the starting PG has been huge for UNC right now and it's no coincidence that Henson has produced more with that change. Lastly, Tyler Z, IMO, is UNC's best player overall and clearly their best inside guy; and offensively, Tyler Z has the advantage inside over Miles or Ryan. And even if Duke didn't have an inside game, with the proper mindset, Duke's frontline IMO matches up well with Carolina's from a defensive perspective; and I think it becomes a wash.

dukelifer
02-02-2011, 10:36 AM
Well they will most likely be the top team in the country next year with a combination of experience and talent at every position. So be careful what you wish for.
I agree with this- assuming no strange departures related to an unexpected NCAA run this year. But they are loaded and will only get more talent in next year- and they will be more experienced. UNC is always going to be right there with the big boys.

gumbomoop
02-02-2011, 11:30 AM
Roy for Coach of the Year? Nah... but maybe Carolina fans, who had been clamoring for Roy....

.... to consider retirement.

Lots of UNC fans had concluded that Roy was just lousy at X/O, was a bloomin' idiot with the substitution "pattern," needed to sit LDII permanently, and had even lost his touch as a recruiter, having (a) recruited guys who couldn't play the Carolina System, and (b) failed to recruit a 2011 big, losing out to lesser schools.

Any number of posters, including kong, had commented on the meltdown going on over at IC.

Anyone who would care to compare DBR and IC after a loss by their respective teams, would see that ... there's no comparison.

As to the substantive improvement in the Heels, I'm impressed with the fact that Henson is a willing worker on O as well as D. Can't let that long-armed fellow go to his left. HB has a sweet jumper, though I'm still a bit surprised he "settles" so frequently.

Finally, having been very critical of Roy's emotional weirdness, itself an embarrassment to sensible Heels, I credit him both for bowing to the obvious in starting Marshall and for keeping LDII's demotion from leading to bad chemistry vibes. It's even possible that one should credit LDII himself for accepting a lesser role.

Lots of exciting games left. Really. Duke v. UNC twice. UNC-FSU twice. Duke visiting Md and VT, brutal. UNC at Clemson, should be intense. UNC at State is no gimme. Even Duke at Miami, if Miami gets on an uptick and Duke is inconsistent.

Scorp4me
02-02-2011, 12:08 PM
Let's face it, both Duke and Carolina did what they were supposed to do up til now with the exception of one conference loss. Most would conclude we shouldn't have lost to Florida St. and everyone I'm sure feels they shouldn't have lost to Georgia Tech. We were picked first, they were picked second. All of that was before we lost Kyrie.

To still be in the positions we are with that loss is quite impressive, but nothing's a given. Would we be undefeated right now still had he not been injured? I'm not so sure about that, but we'd be more confident and have a better team identity. It's not just about reinventing it. I mean, it's not just the first 7 or 8 games you played and then have to make changes. This year came together alot longer than that, through recruitment, summer, pre-season. It's alot to change and I think K has done a great job, but it's still alot to overcome.

ncexnyc
02-02-2011, 01:17 PM
So let's see, they haven't played anyone yet, check.
A player is injured, check.

Hmmm, seems like I've seen this somewhere before. Yeah, that's right. The first is used by heel fans in their lame attempt to discount our Championship last year. They also tried to use the overall weakness of the NCAA as an additional reason we won. Now I see some on this board using a similar tactic in an attempt to downplay the heels improved play by stating the ACC is very weak, well while that may be the case, we play in the ACC.

The second was also used by heel fans and I felt it was a valid reason for their meltdown last year. They suffered multiple injuries last year, but some around here loved to either ignore those injuries or make comments like, "Coach K would have been able to overcome all of those injuries." So now we've got arguably the best NCAA rookie out and some people around here are still trying to use this as an excuse. Sorry, but as Bilas has already pointed out, Kyrie's status reached mythic proportions. We've still got two seniors who were considered AA candidates and Singler was being mentioned as NPOY. There really shouldn't be any excuse for poor performance by the our team.

There's still a lot of ball left to be played, we aren't a finished product by any means, but neither are any of the other teams in the ACC. Lets' try to remember this.

ChicagoHeel
02-02-2011, 01:30 PM
While I cannot deny the importance of Irving to Duke's potential for a repeat- and thus the magnitude of his loss- I do not think that K has done anything that impressive this year. You are bringing back three of five starters from a NC team plus have a few talented sophomores that one would naturally expect to step and play a bigger role. The ACC is weak, and like UNC, you've beaten some ACC teams that are not very good. I would say beating BC is a good ACC road win for us- Duke has its chance for its first tonight. I'm not saying K is not doing a good job- just that it's hardly spectacular that Duke is on top of the ACC.

One could say the same thing about Roy, I suppose. We are loaded with talent, although most of it is young. He's has corrected many of the mistakes he made last year, but given the talent we possess we should be winning most of our ACC games. Bottom line, things are pretty much the way they should be- the ACC's two best teams battling it out for first. I look forward to the our next two games- then we'll see where UNC really is.

The Gordog
02-02-2011, 02:23 PM
I agree with this- assuming no strange departures related to an unexpected NCAA run this year. But they are loaded and will only get more talent in next year- and they will be more experienced. UNC is always going to be right there with the big boys.

Sorry to nitpick, but recent history has proven your final statement to be false.:cool:

Pernell
02-02-2011, 08:19 PM
You are so correct. The ACC has been s*cking this year with only Duke looking lika a bona fide contenda. It's always more fun and way more interesting when there's competition. If they don't lapse back, I think 2/9 will be interesting.

Definitely agree.

But while at the beginning of the year 2/9 was an after thought, now all my Tarheel buddies are oozing with confidence.

Should be an interesting game

JTH
02-03-2011, 08:07 AM
While I cannot deny the importance of Irving to Duke's potential for a repeat- and thus the magnitude of his loss- I do not think that K has done anything that impressive this year. You are bringing back three of five starters from a NC team plus have a few talented sophomores that one would naturally expect to step and play a bigger role. The ACC is weak, and like UNC, you've beaten some ACC teams that are not very good. I would say beating BC is a good ACC road win for us- Duke has its chance for its first tonight. I'm not saying K is not doing a good job- just that it's hardly spectacular that Duke is on top of the ACC.

One could say the same thing about Roy, I suppose. We are loaded with talent, although most of it is young. He's has corrected many of the mistakes he made last year, but given the talent we possess we should be winning most of our ACC games. Bottom line, things are pretty much the way they should be- the ACC's two best teams battling it out for first. I look forward to the our next two games- then we'll see where UNC really is.

Just for the record, Duke returned two, not three, starters from the NC team.

davekay1971
02-03-2011, 08:23 AM
I remember early in the season when some on this board said that they would take Duke's frontcourt over UNC's. With the loss of KI, Duke has no inside game.

I said that, and I would still take our frontcourt over UNC's...in a heartbeat.

To make sure definitions are clear, I am comparing Zeller, Henson, and Knox to Mason, Miles, Ryan, and Hairston. I do this to be fair to Carolina, because if you throw Kyle and The Black Falcon into the discussion, there is no discussion - Duke's frontcourt wins by a landslide.

Reason 1 (openly declaring irrational fan bias): Once a person has chosen that color blue, they are forever tainted, and I want nothing from them.

Reason 2 (actual basketball reason): Ryan Kelly. He's not a big scorer consistently, not yet, but he brings a dimension to our frontcourt that Carolina's doesn't have. He can score from range and bring opposing bigs way out of the lane. Carolina's bigs, like Mason and Miles, are athletic but are not threats to score away from the basket (I respect Zeller's midrange jumper, but he still isn't a deep threat).

Reason 3 (another basketball reason): Aside from Kelly's outside shooting, our frontcourts are relatively even. Zeller and Henson are very good rebounders...so are Kelly and the Plumlees (especially Mason). Henson is a great shotblocker. We don't have one that good, but Mason and Miles are good post defenders and Kelly is a deceptively superb defender. Zeller and Henson have combined for better overall PPG than our bigs, but part of that is the lack of other reliable scoring options for Carolina - the low post is a bigger focus of their offense.

I'm not implying, at all, that UNC doesn't have a very good frontcourt, because they do. But I take ours over theirs.

dukelifer
02-03-2011, 08:30 AM
Sorry to nitpick, but recent history has proven your final statement to be false.:cool:

It is like the stock market- you have to look over a long enough window of time.

Class of '94
02-03-2011, 09:48 AM
Definitely agree.

But while at the beginning of the year 2/9 was an after thought, now all my Tarheel buddies are oozing with confidence.

Should be an interesting game

I hope Carolina is thinking about 2/9 and Duke right now so that Florida State can come into Chapel Hill this weekend and put a beatdown on them....:D Then, let's see how high the confidence of the UNC fans would be with respect to 2/9.

gumbomoop
02-04-2011, 11:49 PM
Hard to predict the short [FSU and Duke games], intermediate [last 1/2 of ACC schedule], and long-term [NCAAT] impact of Drew's departure.

One would think that emotionally the Heels will be up for FSU, to prove they are determined to overcome the turmoil.

I'm not being sarcastic in what follows, a look at the likely mpg/player.

Bigs:
Zeller 27
Henson 27
Knox 20
Watts 6

Wings:
Barnes 30
Bullock 20
McDonald 20
Strickland 10

PG:
Marshall 30
Strickland 10

Were I a Heel fan, whether I felt bad for Drew or angry at his leaving the team in the lurch, I wouldn't think the season had just gone down the drain. UNC, as this thread "warns," has been surging. The Heels' emotional high certainly has experienced 2 downers this week: Duke beat Md, a minor irritation, and now this, a major, utterly dismaying surprise.

Lots of pressure on Marshall and Strickland, but it's conceivable to me at least that the Heels still have some good wins in them this season. This thing could go any which way, couldn't it?

gep
02-04-2011, 11:55 PM
Lots of pressure on Marshall and Strickland, but it's conceivable to me at least that the Heels still have some good wins in them this season. This thing could go any which way, couldn't it?

do you know the way to ====>>>> NIT? :confused:

moonpie23
02-12-2011, 10:06 PM
i don't like it......

singleton going down for fla state, clemson rolling over....who else is going to beat them? i don't see anyone....hope duke doesn't lose another game....if we drop another game, THEN lose to the holes in chapel hill, they would be the acc reg season champs...

gumbomoop
02-12-2011, 10:23 PM
who else is going to beat them? i don't see anyone.

Heels are in good shape. Long shots to nip them: (1) NCSt in "Raleigh revenge" game. Does that pass the laugh test? If so, I'll go with the Pack. (2) Md in CH. If Terps can win at VaTech, they then have home games v. NCSt and FSU before going to CH. A resurgent Md would be 8-5, renewed hope. Does that pass the laugh test? If so, I'll go with the Terps. [Edit: Actually even if the Terps lose to VaTech, as long as they win at home v. NCst and FSU, they'd be 7-6, still hopeful, ready to give it a shot in CH.]

More likely, the ACC reg season winner will be decided on March 5. Kellogg and Nance, rather than Dickie V.

kong123
02-13-2011, 10:22 AM
Heels are in good shape. Long shots to nip them: (1) NCSt in "Raleigh revenge" game. Does that pass the laugh test? If so, I'll go with the Pack. (2) Md in CH. If Terps can win at VaTech, they then have home games v. NCSt and FSU before going to CH. A resurgent Md would be 8-5, renewed hope. Does that pass the laugh test? If so, I'll go with the Terps. [Edit: Actually even if the Terps lose to VaTech, as long as they win at home v. NCst and FSU, they'd be 7-6, still hopeful, ready to give it a shot in CH.]

More likely, the ACC reg season winner will be decided on March 5. Kellogg and Nance, rather than Dickie V.

Isn't it amazing how UNC has turned their season around? After the GT game, I was ready to throw in the towel. Now with Marshall at the helm, UNC's future looks bright. I see this season kind of like our 2003-2004 season. Our talented but young kids had to learn to play together and win. They had to learn and define their roles. I believe that this squad is currently in the middle of that. I never expected UNC to challenge for the ACC regular season title! However, there is a long way to go and UNC could stumble along the way, but.... how great would a March 5th game be if it was for all the marbles? UNC wins the game and then it goes to a tiebreaker. I would like our chances if it came to that.

Anyways, its nice to be competing again after a horrible 2010. It was only a year, but it felt like much longer.

SuperTurkey
02-13-2011, 10:24 AM
Anyways, its nice to be competing again after a horrible 2010. It was only a year, but it felt like much longer.

I disagree. It's not nice that you are competing again, and it felt like much less than a year. But welcome back anyway. :)

jipops
02-13-2011, 10:32 AM
Isn't it amazing how UNC has turned their season around?

Yes, it is a truly amazing accomplishment, what with only 6 or 7 McDonald's All-Americans, an NBA front court, and a kid who was once projected to be the top pick in the 2011 NBA draft. I don't know if there are many coaches out there who could get this group together to become so competitive. It is shocking where they are today. Shocking I say!!

kong123
02-13-2011, 10:55 AM
Yes, it is a truly amazing accomplishment, what with only 6 or 7 McDonald's All-Americans, an NBA front court, and a kid who was once projected to be the top pick in the 2011 NBA draft. I don't know if there are many coaches out there who could get this group together to become so competitive. It is shocking where they are today. Shocking I say!!

i know, how did they ever underachieve? well, they did and Roy figured a way to turn it around.

ncexnyc
02-13-2011, 11:00 AM
Isn't it amazing how UNC has turned their season around? After the GT game, I was ready to throw in the towel. Now with Marshall at the helm, UNC's future looks bright. I see this season kind of like our 2003-2004 season. Our talented but young kids had to learn to play together and win. They had to learn and define their roles. I believe that this squad is currently in the middle of that. I never expected UNC to challenge for the ACC regular season title! However, there is a long way to go and UNC could stumble along the way, but.... how great would a March 5th game be if it was for all the marbles? UNC wins the game and then it goes to a tiebreaker. I would like our chances if it came to that.

Anyways, its nice to be competing again after a horrible 2010. It was only a year, but it felt like much longer.
When you say the future looks bright I'm assuming you mean the immediate future, as in this year. The continued improvement of Henson and Barnes lead me to believe those two will be leaving and Zeller's a strong possibility to join them as well, but let's just talk about this year.
KM is an excellent floor general, but he is a liability on the defensive end of the court and he doesn't scare anyone offensively, because he can't shoot over sagging defenses.
Strickland is super quick, but he plays the shooting guard position and he can't shoot.
Barnes is talented. A solid defender as we saw last Wednesday night, but his handle is still weak and he gets too passive at times.
Zeller has the golden touch around the basket, but he isn't aggressive enough to battle a decent big to reach his sweet spots on the floor. MP1 did a very good job in the 2nd half keeping him away from the basket. He also doesn't have much of a face-up game.
Henson is probably your best player, but as we saw the other night he is still a liability from the charity stripe and he can't go to his right. The kid still needs to bulk up.
The bench has some decent players in Knox, Bullock, and McDonald so this is a solid team that has improved over the course of the season.

calvindog
02-13-2011, 11:08 AM
Yes, it is a truly amazing accomplishment, what with only 6 or 7 McDonald's All-Americans, an NBA front court, and a kid who was once projected to be the top pick in the 2011 NBA draft. I don't know if there are many coaches out there who could get this group together to become so competitive. It is shocking where they are today. Shocking I say!!

Hilarious! Can you imagine that the holes are actually playing like a barely-top 25 teams with a first team, preseason AA and #1 pick in the draft, 2-3 lottery picks and 7 McD AAs on the roster? I'm so impressed! This is surely Ol' Roy's best coaching job.

moonpie23
02-13-2011, 11:19 AM
i can only imagine what we would be saying about our team if we had a similar season last year......and this...

i don't fault kongy for taking a bit o pride in not sucking.....

Ping Lin
02-13-2011, 11:43 AM
i can only imagine what we would be saying about our team if we had a similar season last year......and this...

i don't fault kongy for taking a bit o pride in not sucking.....


Yeah, I confess to also being a little put off by the Mickey D's comments.

I mean, it isn't like we've never underachieved while having a virtual plethora of same. Getting a spot on that team isn't an indicator of anything terribly special.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-13-2011, 11:43 AM
Hilarious! Can you imagine that the holes are actually playing like a barely-top 25 teams with a first team, preseason AA and #1 pick in the draft, 2-3 lottery picks and 7 McD AAs on the roster? I'm so impressed! This is surely Ol' Roy's best coaching job.

Watch him get coach of the year for the "turnaround."

Not to worry, there's still plenty of time for them to finish the season the same way they started and for Ol Roy to open his mouth before his brain kicks in.

jipops
02-13-2011, 11:46 AM
i know, how did they ever underachieve? well, they did and Roy figured a way to turn it around.

...by playing an actual point guard and having him run the offense for most of the time. Just a mind-boggling feat!

...sorry, you just kind of opened the door on this one.

jipops
02-13-2011, 11:50 AM
When you say the future looks bright I'm assuming you mean the immediate future, as in this year. The continued improvement of Henson and Barnes lead me to believe those two will be leaving and Zeller's a strong possibility to join them as well, but let's just talk about this year.


I think he is referring to next year as well. Those guys aren't going anywhere, that is my bet anyways. UNC will be hands down the most talented team in the country next season. Of course, they at least still have Roy so there is some possibility he can screw that team up.

ncexnyc
02-13-2011, 12:00 PM
I think he is referring to next year as well. Those guys aren't going anywhere, that is my bet anyways. UNC will be hands down the most talented team in the country next season. Of course, they at least still have Roy so there is some possibility he can screw that team up.

Haven't you been paying attention? UNC is the direct pipeline to the NBA for frontcourt players. Our kids only learn how to set screens and illegal ones at that.;)

DUKIE V(A)
02-13-2011, 12:02 PM
Carolina is playing well and much improved. That said, one more ACC loss likely ends their chances of a first place tie.

Sgt. Dingleberry
02-13-2011, 12:04 PM
I think he is referring to next year as well. Those guys aren't going anywhere, that is my bet anyways. UNC will be hands down the most talented team in the country next season. Of course, they at least still have Roy so there is some possibility he can screw that team up.

Why not? Henson and Barnes, playing as well as they are now, both will be mid to high lottery picks. I guess I could see Barnes (and his marketing firm and his ego) staying to build his brand and be the top pick instead of top 5. If Henson is a top 10 pick, I expect him to go.

Olympic Fan
02-13-2011, 12:19 PM
Why not? Henson and Barnes, playing as well as they are now, both will be mid to high lottery picks. I guess I could see Barnes (and his marketing firm and his ego) staying to build his brand and be the top pick instead of top 5. If Henson is a top 10 pick, I expect him to go.

FWIW (and, to be honest, I'd say not a lot), ESPN's big board currently projects Barnes at No. 5 and Henson at No. 9 in the 2011 draft. Zeller is not as highly regarded -- he's No. 27. Of course, they also have Kyrie at No. 2 (behind Sullinger) and Mason at No. 19.

That doesn't mean any of them will go and who knows whether the lockout will scare anybody into staying, but it's clear that Barnes and Henson (and Irving!) will have considerable temptation to go pro.

As for the most talented team in the country next year, let me suggest that you check Kentucky's potential roster (yeah, Jones and maybe Knight are likely to bolt, but Gilchrist, Teague, Wiltjer and company will keep Calipari's talent merry-go-round turning).

And what about Duke? If you assume Barnes and Henson might stay, then I guess we get to make the same assumption about Irving and Mason, right? Then add Austin Rivers (not to mention Cook and Gbinge) ... I'd like to see both teams at full strength (no transfers, no NBA departures). Both have a lot of potential. The only way one is clearly better than the other is if one school keeps all its talent and the other doesn't.

oldnavy
02-13-2011, 01:34 PM
i know, how did they ever underachieve? well, they did and Roy figured a way to turn it around.

Give Roy credit for growing a pair and finally doing what everyone else in the world of basketball said needed to be done 3 months ago.... sure, I'll give him credit for that I guess..

UNC is playing much better now than last year or even earlier than this year, but one cannot overlook the weakness of the ACC and how that factors into the big picture. UNC's ONLY significant win is over Kentucky, and that looks less impressive as UK is sitting on the bottom of the SEC East now....

You had a chance at a true signature win and choked on it. I am really amazed at how much joy the UNC faithful has gotten out of their "moral" victory at CIS. We stunk about as bad as any Duke team I can remember and we still came back from 16 points down in 21 minutes to beat y'all, yet some how this is being heralded as a major accomplishment and measuring stick for how great this UNC team is or rather how great they are becoming.... I see it for what it was. UNC outplayed Duke for one-half of a game, got up by 16 points (when in fact it should have been more like 26) and then got thoroughly out worked and played in the last 20 minutes of a game they should have had. You can have all those "victories" you want as far as I'm concerned. The win at Clemson was HUGE. A two point win over team that is 23 spots below you on the Kenpom power rankings is really a major accomplishment… AMAZING!! WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THE PRE-SEASON #9 TEAM IN THE NATION WOULD BE THIS GOOD??

If UNC wins the regular season championship, then they will have earned it, and it will be a significant accomplishment, but I do not think that it will be "miraculous" or "amazing" by any stretch of the imagination.

kong123
02-13-2011, 01:41 PM
Give Roy credit for growing a pair and finally doing what everyone else in the world of basketball said needed to be done 3 months ago.... sure, I'll give him credit for that I guess..

UNC is playing much better now than last year or even earlier than this year, but one cannot overlook the weakness of the ACC and how that factors into the big picture. UNC's ONLY significant win is over Kentucky, and that looks less impressive as UK is sitting on the bottom of the SEC East now....

You had a chance at a true signature win and choked on it. I am really amazed at how much joy the UNC faithful has gotten out of their "moral" victory at CIS. We stunk about as bad as any Duke team I can remember and we still came back from 16 points down in 21 minutes to beat y'all, yet some how this is being heralded as a major accomplishment and measuring stick for how great this UNC team is or rather how great they are becoming.... I see it for what it was. UNC outplayed Duke for one-half of a game, got up by 16 points (when in fact it should have been more like 26) and then got thoroughly out worked and played in the last 20 minutes of a game they should have had. You can have all those "victories" you want as far as I'm concerned. The win at Clemson was HUGE. A two point win over team that is 23 spots below you on the Kenpom power rankings is really a major accomplishment… AMAZING!! WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THE PRE-SEASON #9 TEAM IN THE NATION WOULD BE THIS GOOD??

If UNC wins the regular season championship, then they will have earned it, and it will be a significant accomplishment, but I do not think that it will be "miraculous" or "amazing" by any stretch of the imagination.

UNC is Duke's signature win, so when you start bashing the weak ACC and how UNC is benefiting from it, don't bother looking in the mirror. UNC is an extremely young team. Duke has ton's of experience at every position. While I expect you to discredit every win UNC has, sometime it surprises me just how short-sighted you guys are.

BD80
02-13-2011, 01:42 PM
Hilarious! Can you imagine that the holes are actually playing like a barely-top 25 teams with a first team, preseason AA and #1 pick in the draft, 2-3 lottery picks and 7 McD AAs on the roster? I'm so impressed! This is surely Ol' Roy's best coaching job.


Yeah, I confess to also being a little put off by the Mickey D's comments.

I mean, it isn't like we've never underachieved while having a virtual plethora of same. Getting a spot on that team isn't an indicator of anything terribly special.

It is amusing that Doug Gotlieb has a recent column up on ESPN Insider questioning the selection of McD AAs, with his main "evidence" being how badly the heels have sucked despite having so many McD AAs (his assumption being ol' roy is a good coach because he has 2 NCs).

jipops
02-13-2011, 02:01 PM
UNC is an extremely young team. Duke has ton's of experience at every position. While I expect you to discredit every win UNC has, sometime it surprises me just how short-sighted you guys are.

I agree unc is our best win, they are the best team we have faced. But we are not loaded with experience. Lately we have started a freshman pg and 2 soph frontcourt guys. Hardly sounds like a plethora of experience.

oldnavy
02-13-2011, 02:03 PM
UNC is Duke's signature win, so when you start bashing the weak ACC and how UNC is benefiting from it, don't bother looking in the mirror. UNC is an extremely young team. Duke has ton's of experience at every position. While I expect you to discredit every win UNC has, sometime it surprises me just how short-sighted you guys are.

Where did I mention Duke in that post? Do you want to know what I think of our team? Ok, here it is:

I have no illusions that we are anything but a good team right now. We play spotty at times, and are still trying to find ourselves as a team. We have some fairly significant gaps that need to be corrected before I start predicting Championships. Nolan is on a different level than anyother player in the ACC right now. Kyle needs to get his offensive production up a little more and we need more out of our bigs. Seth had a great game, er, second half against UNC, but no one has stepped up to be that 3rd offensive threat on a consistant basis yet. I am concerned about that as we move forward. With KI we were a MUCH better team, now we are just a bit better than most, due largely to Kyle and Nolan's experience. We are not a NC team or maybe not even a FF team right now.

My observations of UNC are independant of my observations and opinions of Duke.

I just think it is humorous to see how giddy the UNC fans get over playing us close on our home court and losing. I would be extremely disappointed as a UNC fan that we didn't win against a team that is still looking for it's identity right now when we had them on the ropes, yet I guess just getting close is good enough for most of the UNC fans right now... surprising to me, thats all.

Newton_14
02-13-2011, 02:07 PM
UNC is Duke's signature win, so when you start bashing the weak ACC and how UNC is benefiting from it, don't bother looking in the mirror. UNC is an extremely young team. Duke has ton's of experience at every position. While I expect you to discredit every win UNC has, sometime it surprises me just how short-sighted you guys are.

Sorry Kong, but have to correct you on one item. Duke in no way has "tons of experience" at every position. We have 2 seniors in Nolan and Kyle. After that our rotation is full of freshmen and sophomore's. Miles is the lone exception. Duke is anything but a veteran team.

UNC is a little younger but not by much.

SoCalDukeFan
02-13-2011, 02:08 PM
I am trying to decide if and where UNC-CH benefits from addiction by subtraction.

UNC-CH now has lost 4 players that Roy would have expected to be on the team at the end of last season - the Wear Twins, Graves, and Drew. He was able to pick up Knox, who played 10 minutes against Duke.

Is it addition by subtraction?

I think the Wears are a loss, if they would have had the right attitude. Their playing time might be less than they wanted, but they would provide minutes to rest Henson, Barnes, Zeller and made practices more competitive.

I was never a big Graves fan so can not say.

As a Duke fan I was sorry to see Drew leave. I think his pt would have have under 10 minutes by the end of the season. I think he was not a loss.

Of course, any of these players might be needed if there are injuries or if players get into foul trouble.

Any thoughts from those that follow Carolina closer than I.

SoCal

kong123
02-13-2011, 02:41 PM
Sorry Kong, but have to correct you on one item. Duke in no way has "tons of experience" at every position. We have 2 seniors in Nolan and Kyle. After that our rotation is full of freshmen and sophomore's. Miles is the lone exception. Duke is anything but a veteran team.

UNC is a little younger but not by much.

Experience is not only gauged by being a senior or even a junior, but the quality of the time played. I would say being on a winning team that won a NC makes your sophomores and juniors more experienced than UNC's one junior and three sophomores. Plus, nothing can replace your senior leadership. Nolan put on a Childress like performance the other night.

ChicagoHeel
02-13-2011, 02:42 PM
I am trying to decide if and where UNC-CH benefits from addiction by subtraction.

UNC-CH now has lost 4 players that Roy would have expected to be on the team at the end of last season - the Wear Twins, Graves, and Drew. He was able to pick up Knox, who played 10 minutes against Duke.

Is it addition by subtraction?

I think the Wears are a loss, if they would have had the right attitude. Their playing time might be less than they wanted, but they would provide minutes to rest Henson, Barnes, Zeller and made practices more competitive.

I was never a big Graves fan so can not say.

As a Duke fan I was sorry to see Drew leave. I think his pt would have have under 10 minutes by the end of the season. I think he was not a loss.

Of course, any of these players might be needed if there are injuries or if players get into foul trouble.

Any thoughts from those that follow Carolina closer than I.

SoCal

My sense is that it depends on the year for the Wears. This year, I don't think we miss them all that much. We have a strong enough presence inside and neither of our big men are prone to foul trouble. If either Henson or Zeller leave, we might miss them next year.

I think we miss Graves. He likely would have been our most reliable outside shooter and that appears to me our biggest weakness. He was a liability on D, but there have been a number of times this year when we could have used his shot. I don't think he would have missed the wide open 3s that both Bullock and McDonald missed in the 2nd half of the Duke game.

And while Drew's departure has allowed us to really see how good Marshall is and will be, we miss him. We could have used him against Duke when Strickland got the fouls and Smith and Curry were lighting us up. I am not sure Roy would have done it, but 10-12 minutes in a defensive role of Drew would make this team better. Of course, it is hard to measure how much chemistry has improved now that Drew is gone- maybe that has added something. Hard to say.

wilko
02-13-2011, 03:14 PM
It was way more fun to talk about the Holes when they were blowing chunks.
Its not very entertaining or enjoyable when they win.

dukelifer
02-13-2011, 03:22 PM
UNC is Duke's signature win, so when you start bashing the weak ACC and how UNC is benefiting from it, don't bother looking in the mirror. UNC is an extremely young team. Duke has ton's of experience at every position. While I expect you to discredit every win UNC has, sometime it surprises me just how short-sighted you guys are.

yes- UNC is the only currently ranked top 25 team Duke has beaten. Duke is also extremely young at most positions as others have noted. I credit UNC for their wins this year- although you must admit that the rest of the ACC has been very inconsistent- so it is really hard to know how good Duke or UNC really are. Barring injury to Barnes or Marshall, UNC will likely win out up until the Duke game now the Fla State is hobbled. I wholly expect UNC to be a top 10 or 15 team by then.

oldnavy
02-13-2011, 04:00 PM
yes- UNC is the only currently ranked top 25 team Duke has beaten. Duke is also extremely young at most positions as others have noted. I credit UNC for their wins this year- although you must admit that the rest of the ACC has been very inconsistent- so it is really hard to know how good Duke or UNC really are. Barring injury to Barnes or Marshall, UNC will likely win out up until the Duke game now the Fla State is hobbled. I wholly expect UNC to be a top 10 or 15 team by then.

Top ten or 15? Heck, they quite possibly will be the number 1 team given the enthusiasim and adoration the voters have for UNC. Heck, they were #9 before they played a game, and HB was a 1st team all american. Who knows how high they can go if they actually win some games in Feb/March. Right now I think they are playing for a number one seed... :rolleyes:

Andre Buckner Fan
02-15-2011, 12:02 AM
I think he is referring to next year as well. Those guys aren't going anywhere, that is my bet anyways. UNC will be hands down the most talented team in the country next season. Of course, they at least still have Roy so there is some possibility he can screw that team up.

I already hate PJ Hairston.

Talking trash (http://media411.com/austin-rivers/pj-hairston-tweets-during-duke-vs-unc-game-and-about-austin-rivers/) like there's no tomorrow.

Orange&BlackSheep
02-15-2011, 12:13 AM
I already hate PJ Hairston.

Talking trash (http://media411.com/austin-rivers/pj-hairston-tweets-during-duke-vs-unc-game-and-about-austin-rivers/) like there's no tomorrow.

No one on Duke can guard Reggie Bullock either. Just ask him ...

BD80
02-15-2011, 01:46 AM
No one on Duke can guard Reggie Bullock either. Just ask him ...

That is because he is such a non-factor, no one realizes he is on the floor.

kong123
02-15-2011, 07:46 AM
I already hate PJ Hairston.

Talking trash (http://media411.com/austin-rivers/pj-hairston-tweets-during-duke-vs-unc-game-and-about-austin-rivers/) like there's no tomorrow.

I guess AR can talk a little trash and that's OK?

flyingdutchdevil
02-15-2011, 07:55 AM
I guess AR can talk a little trash and that's OK?

Nope - it's not okay. AR was also out of line. I like the passion on both sides, though!

Kong - I want your thoughts on something. With the enormous log-jam at the 2-3 positions next year on UNC, do you foresee any one leaving early or prematurely? Next year, they will have the following who can play the 2 or 3:

-Barnes
-McDonald
-Stickland
-Bullock
-Hairston
-Watts

Strickland is the only one who can potentially play the 1, and I'd be surprised if UNC didn't grab a late 3-4 star PG.

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 07:59 AM
jipops, I respect your opinions but what is up with this lovefest concerning Carolina? I don't think one can say that Carolina will hands down be the most talented team in the country next year when we don't know who will be on that team next year or on other teams like Duke. Even if KI doesn't come back next year, the incoming class for Duke with AR is very talented and more than equal to (if not better due to the number of recruits) than Carolina's class. Combined that with the amount of returning talent for Duke, I would argue that Duke would be at least as talented as UNC with Barnes and AR being the X-factors for both teams, respectively.

jdj4duke
02-15-2011, 08:04 AM
I guess AR can talk a little trash and that's OK?

See the front page of DBR on Feb 5. Austin got called out here, in fact.
Austin should have gone to PJ first though for some more descriptive language, I suppose.

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 08:05 AM
Nope - it's not okay. AR was also out of line. I like the passion on both sides, though!

Kong - I want your thoughts on something. With the enormous log-jam at the 2-3 positions next year on UNC, do you foresee any one leaving early or prematurely? Next year, they will have the following who can play the 2 or 3:

-Barnes
-McDonald
-Stickland
-Bullock
-Hairston
-Watts

Strickland is the only one who can potentially play the 1, and I'd be surprised if UNC didn't grab a late 3-4 star PG.

I remember reading (sorry I can't remember the link) that Roy and his family agreed that he would play the 3 (similar to the same promise he made Henson) in college since that would be his most likely position in the NBA. And because of that, I'm betting that Barnes will not be at UNC after his sophmore year (if he doesn't decide to leave after this season which is probably less likely now IMO).

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 08:09 AM
I guess AR can talk a little trash and that's OK?

I'm sure both coaches (if they haven't done so already) will talk to them and tell them to tone it down. There's no need for all the profanity in a public forum like twitter. It can reflect poorly on the kids and both schools if that gets out of hand like it did with PJ's tweets. I didn't see Austin's but if Austin used that much profanity and crude language as well, then it also IMO reflects negatively on AR and Duke as well.

P.S. I will still look forward to watching him get humbled next year. I guess he continues the recent line of trash talkers who say a lot but fail to back it up when it counts. IMO it started with Dexter Strickland, then Bullock and now Hairston. I guess they never learn.

BD80
02-15-2011, 08:12 AM
... I'd be surprised if UNC didn't grab a late 3-4 star PG.

So he can transfer after 2 5/8 years?

flyingdutchdevil
02-15-2011, 08:14 AM
So he can transfer after 2 5/8 years?

5/8 years? I like the math. But 9/16 is more accurate, me thinks ;)

BD80
02-15-2011, 09:30 AM
5/8 years? I like the math. But 9/16 is more accurate, me thinks ;)

I know, but you know how uneasy heels get when they see fractions with such big numbers

flyingdutchdevil
02-15-2011, 10:05 AM
I know, but you know how uneasy heels get when they see fractions with such big numbers

Is that why when Sean May was told to only eat 1/8 of the pie, he ate the whole thing?

Channing
02-15-2011, 10:14 AM
I guess AR can talk a little trash and that's OK?

AR got called to the mat by the DBR. Even so, Hairston's comments were much more in line with what we appears to be a growing pattern among incoming UNC recruits - juvenille comparisons and personal attacks (see, e.g., Reggie Bullock referring to Coach K as a rat).

AR shouldn't have been talking about how its not much of a rivalry anymore. Heck, UNC still owns the all time advantage over Duke by what, 30 games? PJ Hairston, though, just sounds like an angry child.

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 10:19 AM
AR got called to the mat by the DBR. Even so, Hairston's comments were much more in line with what we appears to be a growing pattern among incoming UNC recruits - juvenille comparisons and personal attacks (see, e.g., Reggie Bullock referring to Coach K as a rat).

AR shouldn't have been talking about how its not much of a rivalry anymore. Heck, UNC still owns the all time advantage over Duke by what, 30 games? PJ Hairston, though, just sounds like an angry child.

PJ reminds me of a little of Q Miller in terms of confidence and bravodo with borderline cockiness; but Hairston has much less creativity in his choice of words and basketball ability than Q.

kong123
02-15-2011, 10:45 AM
Nope - it's not okay. AR was also out of line. I like the passion on both sides, though!

Kong - I want your thoughts on something. With the enormous log-jam at the 2-3 positions next year on UNC, do you foresee any one leaving early or prematurely? Next year, they will have the following who can play the 2 or 3:

-Barnes
-McDonald
-Stickland
-Bullock
-Hairston
-Watts

Strickland is the only one who can potentially play the 1, and I'd be surprised if UNC didn't grab a late 3-4 star PG.

I think we have a tremendous jam at the 2. PJ signed early in his recruitment, like RB, so perhaps Roy over recruited in that area. however, with the way kids have been leaving UNC to go to the NBA, you never know. PJ can play the 2 or 3 and so can RB, LM and DS play predominately at the 2, and HB at the 3. Roy probably considered HB a one and done, and that may still be the case. Roy had RB and PJ in the bag before HB signed, so it turned out to be an embarrassment of riches.

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone leave. We would have almost the exact opposite situation that we had last year. Too much talent at 2 positions and thin at the others. If JH and TZ stay, with the addition of JM at the 4, UNC could be much better next year. KM has the pg spot locked down and Roy is currently looking for a JuCo PG to back him up. This means more time at the SG for DS? I think DS, RB, LM, and and PJ will battle for minutes, which will be good in practice and bad for the game and perhaps for chemistry? Besides, these guys are freshman, sophomores, and juniors. No one is graduating anytime soon to make space for the other. Duke is in the same boat as well. If KI stays, does Thorton red shirt a year?

IMHO, PJ is a great fit for what UNC needs this year. He is a play maker and an overall tough player. He has great range but he also has a great mid-range game. He plays like a bigger Nolan Smith. Maybe more like Stackhouse?

davekay1971
02-15-2011, 10:58 AM
IIf JH and TZ stay, with the addition of JM at the 4, UNC could be much better next year. KM has the pg spot locked down and Roy is currently looking for a JuCo PG to back him up. This means more time at the SG for DS? I think DS, RB, LM, and and PJ will battle for minutes, which will be good in practice and bad for the game and perhaps for chemistry? Besides, these guys are freshman, sophomores, and juniors. No one is graduating anytime soon to make space for the other. Duke is in the same boat as well. If KI stays, does Thorton red shirt a year?

IMHO, PJ is a great fit for what UNC needs this year. He is a play maker and an overall tough player. He has great range but he also has a great mid-range game. He plays like a bigger Nolan Smith. Maybe more like Stackhouse?

Good breakdown.

As for Thornton, I'd say no on even thinking about redshirting. Quinn Cook is coming in, and Thornton probably doesn't do anything long term to help himself by redshirting.

UNC will almost certainly be better next year, and I credit the emergence of Marshall for that. He's likely a 4 year guy, and he's going to be great for Carolina. You're right that Carolina will continue to have a glut of people competing for time at the 2, though no one has really distinguished themselves as being a star at that position. Bullock will probably be better and more consistent as time goes by, and I expect to see him lock down the starting spot at that position next year. You may see PJ Hairston therefore moving over to the 3 (depending on what Barnes does).

The biggest question marks for Carolina are Barnes and Henson. Barnes is still projected to be a lottery pick, and his late season play has probably cemented that status. Henson could also be a lottery pick on potential, and is certainly a first rounder. UNC could get them both back, and therefore be stacked at every position, or they could both go and leave UNC with probably an undersized small forward and McAdoo starting at the 4, with Zeller at the 5. Even if both Barnes and Henson go, UNC should be considered a preseason top 10 (this time probably earning that respect). If both stay, I think the Tarheel faithful I'm hearing predicting UNC to be the prohibitive favorite to win the NC (not you Kong, that kind of talk is coming from others) are overstating their claim...but UNC will be back in the conversation.

Excuse me while I go throw up at that thought...

BD80
02-15-2011, 11:02 AM
I think we have a tremendous jam at the 2. PJ signed early in his recruitment, like RB, so perhaps Roy over recruited in that area. however, with the way kids have been leaving UNC to go to the NBA, you never know. PJ can play the 2 or 3 and so can RB, LM and DS play predominately at the 2, and HB at the 3. Roy probably considered HB a one and done, and that may still be the case. Roy had RB and PJ in the bag before HB signed, so it turned out to be an embarrassment of riches.

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone leave. We would have almost the exact opposite situation that we had last year. Too much talent at 2 positions and thin at the others. If JH and TZ stay, with the addition of JM at the 4, UNC could be much better next year. KM has the pg spot locked down and Roy is currently looking for a JuCo PG to back him up. This means more time at the SG for DS? I think DS, RB, LM, and and PJ will battle for minutes, which will be good in practice and bad for the game and perhaps for chemistry? Besides, these guys are freshman, sophomores, and juniors. No one is graduating anytime soon to make space for the other. Duke is in the same boat as well. If KI stays, does Thorton red shirt a year?

IMHO, PJ is a great fit for what UNC needs this year. He is a play maker and an overall tough player. He has great range but he also has a great mid-range game. He plays like a bigger Nolan Smith. Maybe more like Stackhouse?

Dammit, how inconsiderate! With a relatively easy game on deck for the devils (and heels), we need SOMETHING to go on about!

I found your post to be informative, polite, fair and entirely lacking in hyperbole. Not a thing with which to take issue!

The madness must be arriving early this year

jipops
02-15-2011, 11:20 AM
jipops, I respect your opinions but what is up with this lovefest concerning Carolina? I don't think one can say that Carolina will hands down be the most talented team in the country next year when we don't know who will be on that team next year or on other teams like Duke. Even if KI doesn't come back next year, the incoming class for Duke with AR is very talented and more than equal to (if not better due to the number of recruits) than Carolina's class. Combined that with the amount of returning talent for Duke, I would argue that Duke would be at least as talented as UNC with Barnes and AR being the X-factors for both teams, respectively.

Don't mistake a lovefest for some objectivity. I did take may hyperbole pill when I typed "hands down" though. I feel like UNC's team will be in tact for next season - it is potentially the most formidable lineup I see being out there for next year. But it's next year, I should be more focused on what is going on now.

Class of '94
02-15-2011, 11:31 AM
I think we have a tremendous jam at the 2. PJ signed early in his recruitment, like RB, so perhaps Roy over recruited in that area. however, with the way kids have been leaving UNC to go to the NBA, you never know. PJ can play the 2 or 3 and so can RB, LM and DS play predominately at the 2, and HB at the 3. Roy probably considered HB a one and done, and that may still be the case. Roy had RB and PJ in the bag before HB signed, so it turned out to be an embarrassment of riches.

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone leave. We would have almost the exact opposite situation that we had last year. Too much talent at 2 positions and thin at the others. If JH and TZ stay, with the addition of JM at the 4, UNC could be much better next year. KM has the pg spot locked down and Roy is currently looking for a JuCo PG to back him up. This means more time at the SG for DS? I think DS, RB, LM, and and PJ will battle for minutes, which will be good in practice and bad for the game and perhaps for chemistry? Besides, these guys are freshman, sophomores, and juniors. No one is graduating anytime soon to make space for the other. Duke is in the same boat as well. If KI stays, does Thorton red shirt a year?

IMHO, PJ is a great fit for what UNC needs this year. He is a play maker and an overall tough player. He has great range but he also has a great mid-range game. He plays like a bigger Nolan Smith. Maybe more like Stackhouse?

Nice insight Kong. I wanted to get your thoughts on the following matters as well. If PJ potentially has a Stackhouse type of game and Barnes stays, do you think PJ might take the starting 3 spot over Barnes, especially if PJ brings a level of toughness that IMO Barnes has lacked early on? And what about McAdoo expecting to play at the 3 in preparation for the NBA? Will he be happy if he has to play the 4?

DukeBlueDevils47
02-15-2011, 12:16 PM
I am at school right now and the link to this PJ Hairston trash talk is blocked by my school. Can anyone fill me in on what was said between AR annd PJ??

DukieTiger
02-15-2011, 12:25 PM
Good overall summary of UNC's guard situation for the next few years from Kong, so I hate to even poke fun, but I have to ask- by this:


however, with the way kids have been leaving UNC to go to the NBA, you never know.


...do you mean top 10 players out of high school staying until their Jr or Sr years? Because I was confused. If Barnes and RB and PJ and JM and JH all stay til 3 or 4 years, that would be quite the logjam. :)

flyingdutchdevil
02-15-2011, 12:53 PM
I think we have a tremendous jam at the 2. PJ signed early in his recruitment, like RB, so perhaps Roy over recruited in that area. however, with the way kids have been leaving UNC to go to the NBA, you never know. PJ can play the 2 or 3 and so can RB, LM and DS play predominately at the 2, and HB at the 3. Roy probably considered HB a one and done, and that may still be the case. Roy had RB and PJ in the bag before HB signed, so it turned out to be an embarrassment of riches.

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone leave. We would have almost the exact opposite situation that we had last year. Too much talent at 2 positions and thin at the others. If JH and TZ stay, with the addition of JM at the 4, UNC could be much better next year. KM has the pg spot locked down and Roy is currently looking for a JuCo PG to back him up. This means more time at the SG for DS? I think DS, RB, LM, and and PJ will battle for minutes, which will be good in practice and bad for the game and perhaps for chemistry? Besides, these guys are freshman, sophomores, and juniors. No one is graduating anytime soon to make space for the other. Duke is in the same boat as well. If KI stays, does Thorton red shirt a year?

IMHO, PJ is a great fit for what UNC needs this year. He is a play maker and an overall tough player. He has great range but he also has a great mid-range game. He plays like a bigger Nolan Smith. Maybe more like Stackhouse?

Hi Kong,

Thanks for the response. Great insight and nice to take off the light blue glasses ;).

I certainly share similar sentiment with our logjam at the 1, but I think no one will transfer or red shirt. KI will certainly be gone after his sophomore year, leaving QC and TT to man the fort for 2-3 years. Plus, having a great PG like KI will allow QC and TT to learn from the best.

The beauty with Duke is that once Nolan and Singler leave, our 2s and 3s - SC, AD, AR, MG, and possibly JH - will be battling like hell in practice for those minutes.

Our 4 and 5 are in good position, with a total of 4-5 players (MP1, MP2, MP3, RK, and JH. I really don't see MP3 getting many minutes unless he bulks up quick. For everything that he say about Henson's weight around here, MP3 isn't that far behind...) manning those spots.

The future is bright!

BattierBattalion
02-15-2011, 02:21 PM
Duke is in the same boat as well. If KI stays, does Thorton red shirt a year?


Thorton has been on record for saying that he doesn't expect to go into the NBA and the main reason for him coming to Duke was to learn how to coach. So, there wouldn't be a reason for him to redshirt. That said, even if Irving decides to stay, I think having three point guys will work out fine (4 if you count SC). Thorton has proven himself valuable and will see playing time possibly at the expense of QC. Also, with the amount of potential depth we'd have next year, we can play a Roy Williams-style offense and just keep shuttling guys and run the other team off the floor.

Lennies
02-15-2011, 03:48 PM
Thorton has been on record for saying that he doesn't expect to go into the NBA and the main reason for him coming to Duke was to learn how to coach. So, there wouldn't be a reason for him to redshirt.

That sounds like a great reason to redshirt. :)

Wheat/"/"/"
02-15-2011, 06:19 PM
FWIW, my opinion...the UNC player with the most upside for the NBA is easily Henson.

Think a Dennis Rodman type player with some offense...(after he gets more lower body strength, which will and is coming, along with the growing shooting confidence.

Every NBA team can use a springy, active and long 6'11" defender/rebounder like Henson.

My take, (and hope), is he will stay one more year and becomes a college monster. A potential NPOY type player. That he stays after this season is only a guess, because he is a lock lottery pick now in my estimation and could head for the money early and no-one would blame him.
But he seems to be enjoying his college days, and one more year would help his game a lot while growing his marketability. And it would also give him a legitimate shot at a national title.

Talking draft thoughts...Nolan Smith is a mid first rounder to me, but has a chance to sneak up to the upper end of the lottery. He's improved every year and there's no reason he won't keep improving. He's a tough player, will defend, and is quicker than many people give him credit for too.

Fas'Dancin'Dukie
02-15-2011, 09:21 PM
Hi fellow Duke basketball fans. This is my first post. I stumbled upon your site looking for info on the Kyrie Irving injury. I have been a Duke fan since 1978 when Kenny Dennard was a freshman. I actually played against Kenny in high school and with him in some Rec. League Tournments back in the day when NCAA rules were not so strict. After reading many post, I learned that Carolina fans also have a site called inside carolina. I ventured over there after the Duke game and noticed the main point of discussion over there is about their feeling of biased officiating. Anyway, here is my question and it is mostly for the old guys. Were/Are tar heels bred to complain about the REFS? Back during the years of the Dean Smith Show hosted by Woody Durham on Sunday mornings, I would sit with my dad and watch as Dean Smith would break down the video of the games that the heels had played in that week. I remember us always discussing how Dean would have 3 or 4 comments within the show about calls that went against Carolina and how they came at an important juncture of the game as well as emphasising many times the role the calls played in the game ,especially if they came within a Carolina loss, which rarely happened. I despised Dean Smith for this as it made him appear to be a whiny individual that dwelled on calls that didn't go his way. I just wonder if this has anything to do the whiny, crybaby disposition of most Carolina fans. At 51 years old, I still love basketball and love the Carolina_Duke rivalry, but the constant complaining about the Officials was going on 35 years ago and by reading the discussions at the Carolina board it looks like Dean's philosophy involving complaining is still going strong today. Do any of you guys that watched the Dean Smith Show years ago remember this? Afterall, the children of today have parents that probally listens to Dean with their parents back in the 70's and 80's and I'm just wondering if this is where all the complaining was spawned.

OldPhiKap
02-15-2011, 09:29 PM
You have described my views of Dean exactly ( bless his heart and hope he gets well).

I think all school fans do this, and of course Carolina is entitled to win so it burns them when they don't. But if I grew up with Lenny Wirtz in my back pocket I'd get that way too.

Welcome.

uh_no
02-15-2011, 09:46 PM
Hi fellow Duke basketball fans. This is my first post. I stumbled upon your site looking for info on the Kyrie Irving injury. I have been a Duke fan since 1978 when Kenny Dennard was a freshman. I actually played against Kenny in high school and with him in some Rec. League Tournments back in the day when NCAA rules were not so strict. After reading many post, I learned that Carolina fans also have a site called inside carolina. I ventured over there after the Duke game and noticed the main point of discussion over there is about their feeling of biased officiating. Anyway, here is my question and it is mostly for the old guys. Were/Are tar heels bred to complain about the REFS? Back during the years of the Dean Smith Show hosted by Woody Durham on Sunday mornings, I would sit with my dad and watch as Dean Smith would break down the video of the games that the heels had played in that week. I remember us always discussing how Dean would have 3 or 4 comments within the show about calls that went against Carolina and how they came at an important juncture of the game as well as emphasising many times the role the calls played in the game ,especially if they came within a Carolina loss, which rarely happened. I despised Dean Smith for this as it made him appear to be a whiny individual that dwelled on calls that didn't go his way. I just wonder if this has anything to do the whiny, crybaby disposition of most Carolina fans. At 51 years old, I still love basketball and love the Carolina_Duke rivalry, but the constant complaining about the Officials was going on 35 years ago and by reading the discussions at the Carolina board it looks like Dean's philosophy involving complaining is still going strong today. Do any of you guys that watched the Dean Smith Show years ago remember this? Afterall, the children of today have parents that probally listens to Dean with their parents back in the 70's and 80's and I'm just wondering if this is where all the complaining was spawned.

come back here after a duke game, and half the post game comments will be about how bad the officiating was, often times how duke player x did this and was called for a foul but opponent y did and wasn't

DukeDevilDeb
02-15-2011, 09:47 PM
Hi fellow Duke basketball fans. This is my first post. I stumbled upon your site looking for info on the Kyrie Irving injury. I have been a Duke fan since 1978 when Kenny Dennard was a freshman. I actually played against Kenny in high school and with him in some Rec. League Tournments back in the day when NCAA rules were not so strict. After reading many post, I learned that Carolina fans also have a site called inside carolina.

Welcome to the best Duke-related site on the Internet. I love reading the posts, especially when they're done by Jason, Jumbo, Mike Corey, Ozzie, etc.

I don't know everything about Duke basketball, and I surely don't know much about Carolina basketball. But I do know this. The fans (or so they call themselves) who post at Inside Carolina are obsessed with their hatred of all things Duke. I have been so horrified by what some of them say that I could scream, and I chastise myself for going over and reading their trash! Some day I will delete my link to that site...!

Believe it or not, a recent thread started like this: I'm having trouble finding someone on this year's I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. [sic] team to hate? Any suggestions?

You can imagine what some of the responses were. Most of them simply said, "Hate the whole team! I always do!" They whine about everything and blame the officials for losses they may have. Perhaps the silliest recent thread chastised Coach K for praising Henson at his post-Duke/UNC press conference because he was really trying to get Henson to go to the NBA next year instead of coming back to Carolina.

Have I been transported to an alternative reality? Beam me back, Scottie!

LSanders
02-16-2011, 01:31 AM
Speaking of the "surging" Holes, guess the same holds for the fans too. Here's the opening paragraph from the AP story on the fall of Wake:


CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- North Carolina shot badly and didn't have a lot of intensity while playing in front of a home crowd that seemed almost bored.

moonpie23
03-06-2011, 08:01 PM
man i hate being right......


guess my sig line was right on as well....

ncexnyc
03-06-2011, 09:13 PM
man i hate being right......


guess my sig line was right on as well....
LOL. Care to venture a guess what movie they just so happen to be showing this evening on TNT?
Talk about Karmic justice. Where's OLDNAVY, DUVALL, and that 114 guy?

Unfortunately I had to go grocery shopping earlier today to buy some six-packs of soda to pay off my losing bets. Hopefully I'll get them right back next weekend.

Kewlswim
03-06-2011, 10:05 PM
Hi,

Listening to the announcers I thought his court vision, basketball IQ, and pin-point passes made him a little brother to Magic. He has done so much for the Tar Heels, I think his upside is great (just ask Tar Heel fans how good he is). I think he would do wonderfully at a place like, say, Cleveland where he can learn to be a pro from Baron Davis.

I think Marshall should go to the association while his stock is high. People play at Duke for many reasons. Just ask the Tar Heel fans, they will tell you how many more and at a higher quality their pros are than ours because one plays at Duke for a degree *or because one can't get a basketball scholarship to Carolina* and at Carolina primarily to go pro (successfully). Just think, he could stay another year and there could be chemistry issues on the Heels and well, he would be just another pt. guard flash in the pan? The Association needs you Marshall and you need it.

GO DUKE!

oldnavy
03-06-2011, 10:25 PM
LOL. Care to venture a guess what movie they just so happen to be showing this evening on TNT?
Talk about Karmic justice. Where's OLDNAVY, DUVALL, and that 114 guy?

Unfortunately I had to go grocery shopping earlier today to buy some six-packs of soda to pay off my losing bets. Hopefully I'll get them right back next weekend.

I'm right here man, what movie are you talking about???

I have already eaten my plate of crow.... didn't taste good either! :p

ncexnyc
03-06-2011, 10:35 PM
I'm right here man, what movie are you talking about???

I have already eaten my plate of crow.... didn't taste good either! :p

Don't feel bad. I'll be eating some of that bird tomorrow at work. As for the movie in question it's, "Star Wars Episode IV". ;)

dukelifer
03-07-2011, 07:09 AM
Hi,

Listening to the announcers I thought his court vision, basketball IQ, and pin-point passes made him a little brother to Magic. He has done so much for the Tar Heels, I think his upside is great (just ask Tar Heel fans how good he is). I think he would do wonderfully at a place like, say, Cleveland where he can learn to be a pro from Baron Davis.

I think Marshall should go to the association while his stock is high. People play at Duke for many reasons. Just ask the Tar Heel fans, they will tell you how many more and at a higher quality their pros are than ours because one plays at Duke for a degree *or because one can't get a basketball scholarship to Carolina* and at Carolina primarily to go pro (successfully). Just think, he could stay another year and there could be chemistry issues on the Heels and well, he would be just another pt. guard flash in the pan? The Association needs you Marshall and you need it.

GO DUKE!

Well he will be played up as the next Jason Kidd over the next few weeks. If they make a deep run- UNC may see a few test the NBA waters assuming there are any to test. Unfortunately, Marshall is not a good enough shooter to make anyone want to take him the first round. He is going to be a great college player. He is the pt guard equivalent of Hansbrough.

Saratoga2
03-07-2011, 07:23 AM
Well he will be played up as the next Jason Kidd over the next few weeks. If they make a deep run- UNC may see a few test the NBA waters assuming there are any to test. Unfortunately, Marshall is not a good enough shooter to make anyone want to take him the first round. He is going to be a great college player. He is the pt guard equivalent of Hansbrough.

After watching Ohio State take Wisconsin (a really good team) apart yesterday, I don't think any of the ACC teams, including Duke will make that deep a run. All teams can be beat but Ohio State looks head and shoulders better than anyone we have played this year.

If you want 3 point shooting, look to Diebler or Buford. Even Lighty is not bad and all are 6'5" or 6'6" and get their shots off quickly. Hard to guard is an understatement. Sullinger inside is essentially unstoppable while Craft is a good dependable, if young, in your face sort of point guard.

Ohio State also plays excellent man defense and can make it extremely hard to score. Yes, they can be beaten under circumstances where a very good team catches fire, but they have to be a big favorite this year. Kansas is also a very tough team, so enjoy the tournament, but lets not go in with high expectations, as I think the ACC will flame out early this year.

Devilsfan
03-07-2011, 08:43 AM
Most coaches want their team to be better in March than they were in January. I just didn't expect roy to have that ability. He must have a very good staff.

gw67
03-07-2011, 09:21 AM
After watching Ohio State take Wisconsin (a really good team) apart yesterday, I don't think any of the ACC teams, including Duke will make that deep a run. All teams can be beat but Ohio State looks head and shoulders better than anyone we have played this year.

If you want 3 point shooting, look to Diebler or Buford. Even Lighty is not bad and all are 6'5" or 6'6" and get their shots off quickly. Hard to guard is an understatement. Sullinger inside is essentially unstoppable while Craft is a good dependable, if young, in your face sort of point guard.

Ohio State also plays excellent man defense and can make it extremely hard to score. Yes, they can be beaten under circumstances where a very good team catches fire, but they have to be a big favorite this year. Kansas is also a very tough team, so enjoy the tournament, but lets not go in with high expectations, as I think the ACC will flame out early this year.

I too, watched Ohio State play Wisconsin yesterday. As you mentioned, the Badgers are a very good team. They have size, experience, shooting ability, a dynamic point guard and one of the best coaches around. Yet, Ohio State dismantled them. Ohio State’s top five players are the best in the country, IMO, and they play very well together. Both the Devils and UNC are capable of defeating the Buckeyes but it would take a combination of Ohio State having an off night and Duke/UNC bringing their “A” game.

gw67

kong123
03-07-2011, 12:51 PM
UNC is #6 behing Duke in this weeks AP poll

rotogod00
03-07-2011, 12:57 PM
UNC is #6 behing Duke in this weeks AP poll

And up to a #2 seed in Lunardi's latest Bracketology

kong123
03-07-2011, 01:02 PM
I hope UNC doesn't flame out like the 2006 team did against George Mason in the second round.

SupaDave
03-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Well he will be played up as the next Jason Kidd over the next few weeks. If they make a deep run- UNC may see a few test the NBA waters assuming there are any to test. Unfortunately, Marshall is not a good enough shooter to make anyone want to take him the first round. He is going to be a great college player. He is the pt guard equivalent of Hansbrough.

Only problem with this is that you seem to forget that Jason Kidd has never been known as a great shooter. I can recall him being left open on the wing many times for many different teams and it's always a big deal when Kidd makes a three pointer.

Indoor66
03-07-2011, 01:15 PM
And up to a #2 seed in Lunardi's latest Bracketology

Did you notice that Lunardi had unc as a 2 in the #1 Kansas bracket?

ns7
03-07-2011, 01:19 PM
After watching Ohio State take Wisconsin (a really good team) apart yesterday, I don't think any of the ACC teams, including Duke will make that deep a run. All teams can be beat but Ohio State looks head and shoulders better than anyone we have played this year.


Ohio State isn't going to go 14-15 from 3 and 68% inside the arc every game. If they still hit a sizzling 7-15 from 3, they only win by 7. If they go 4-15, they lose.

Their defense still let Wiscy score at ~1.2 ppp, which is quite bad.

sporthenry
03-07-2011, 01:39 PM
At this point OSU is the favorite but OSU being the favorite and Duke/UNC losing early have nothing to do with each other. Neither Duke/UNC would not see OSU til the E8 which would not really be an early exit.

And I have to agree that KM looks like an NBA talent. I doubt he leaves after this year although the NBA draft is weak but it is amazing how KM has had a better year than Selby and probably looks like a better PG than Knight yet nobody talks about KM. And Kidd is actually a decent shooter when left open which seems to be the same case for KM. I think Kidd is third in 3 pointers made and shoots at a 35% rate which isn't great but enough to make teams respectable or make the shot efficient. Although while him staying 4 years might not be ideal for a Duke fan, it'll be interesting to see what Paige does if he has to sit on the bench for 2 years and how KM will deal with his minutes being cut.

rotogod00
03-07-2011, 02:12 PM
Did you notice that Lunardi had unc as a 2 in the #1 Kansas bracket?

Yeah, playing in Charlotte