Breaking News - Jay Bilas picks Duke (sort of) [Archive]

Olympic Fan

01-29-2011, 10:34 AM

That picture of the five Duke players from 1986 is interesting because it's such an odd combo: Dawkins, Alarie, Ferry, Bilas and King.

The much more expected grouping would be Dawkins, Alarie, Amaker, Henderson and either Ferry or Bilas.

Bilas started that season on the injury list, missing the first six games and being limited for another dozen or so. Ferry started the first 21 games in his place ... Bilas started the last 19. While they did play together at times, it was fairly rare that both were on the court together -- and when they did, Ferry was usually replacing Alarie, who normally played the 4. So this is clearly a big lineup with two guys who usually played the 5 that season sharing time with a four.

Of course, both Ferry and Alarie were versatile enough to plat the 3 or the 4 (or, in Ferry's case, the 5) ... still I think that was a rare alignment.

Then there is the absence of Amaker and Henderson ... Amaker played the second-most minutes on the team and rarely came out of close games (he and Dawkins could play forever without wear -- they were the two guys still fresh in the title game). When he did, Dawkins moved over and played the point. Snyder was a freshman that year and saw a few minutes at point, but never in crunch time -- most of his 277 minutes that season came on the wing.

King was the seventh man that year (with Ferry/Bilas alternating in the fifth/sixth spot) and I guess his substitution for Henderson (who averaged 26-27 minutes) makes sense.

Still, an interesting grouping -- I'd say it was for defensive reasons, except Amaker was the best on-the-ball defender K has ever had ... and at that point in his career, Henderson might have been a better wing defender than King (although the sophomore King would blossom as a junior and a senior).

Any idea when the picture was taken? At least which game?

ajgoodfella7

01-29-2011, 11:05 AM

I wouldn't read anything into Bilas's pick. He just said Allen Fieldhouse is the best venue in College Basketball so...

Duke79UNLV77

01-29-2011, 11:31 AM

on the early edition of game day, Recce asked the panel who should be #2 behind Ohio State. Hubert and Digger picked Texas, but our very own Jay Bilas reversed his usual form and argued convincingly for Duke.

It encourages me to be opTOEmistic.
:D

It would be hard to justify picking Texas #2. How do you put them ahead of Pitt and UConn, 2 teams with better records that beat them, as did USC?

DevilHorns

01-29-2011, 12:11 PM

...and then he picks Allen Fieldhouse as the ultimate college basketball arena. Interesting choice Jay.

I have a feeling that if he was a KU alumnus, he would have picked Cameron Indoor.

Poincaré

01-29-2011, 12:37 PM

...and then he picks Allen Fieldhouse as the ultimate college basketball arena. Interesting choice Jay.

That Jay, he's got a great sense of humor.

Reilly

01-29-2011, 03:25 PM

That picture of the five Duke players from 1986 ...
Any idea when the picture was taken? At least which game?

Don't know but looking for clues. Duke's wearing white. Does the grain of the floor look like Cameron? Not really to me. Alarie's wearing a knee wrap ... would that have been at a certain time, or did he wear it every game?

weezie

01-29-2011, 06:01 PM

Bilas had a nice keister! Hi Jay!!! :D

Lord Ash

01-29-2011, 06:34 PM

...and then he picks Allen Fieldhouse as the ultimate college basketball arena. Interesting choice Jay.

I have a feeling that if he was a KU alumnus, he would have picked Cameron Indoor.

Yeah, I am sorry, but that is just unacceptable. I have always stood by Jay as some folks have felt he has gone "too far" in trying to present himself as not playing favorites, but give me a damn break.

sagegrouse

01-29-2011, 06:55 PM

...and then he picks Allen Fieldhouse as the ultimate college basketball arena. Interesting choice Jay.

I have a feeling that if he was a KU alumnus, he would have picked Cameron Indoor.

Look, I know even paranoids have enemies, but I totally agree with Lord Ash's comments on this post. Jay is an utter professional. He says what he thinks, except in on-air discussions when he will sometimes take a side of the argument for the sake of an argument. Jay is smart, literate, and well spoken with excellent analytical reasoning (I mean, Duke Law must be good for something). He also can be really funny. (After a messy Carolina game: "Everyone in the first three rows received a Carolina pass tonight." Or, "Only a dog can hear Ryan Harrow's voice. That's how high-pitched it is.")

And BTW isn't it great to have alums in the media like Bilas, JWill, Gminski, Spanarkel, Feinstein and Seth Davis to complain about?

sagegrouse

sleepybear

01-29-2011, 07:16 PM

Any idea when the picture was taken? At least which game?

Don't know but looking for clues. Duke's wearing white. Does the grain of the floor look like Cameron? Not really to me. Alarie's wearing a knee wrap ... would that have been at a certain time, or did he wear it every game?

"during cliffhanger victory against Notre Dame in their senior year " 2/16/86 at Duke

http://www.dukemagazine.duke.edu/dukemag/issues/010206/eightysixers1.html

Amaker may have fouled out. He has 5 fouls in the boxscore.
http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19860216

86 is my favorite team.

Duke: A Dynasty

01-29-2011, 11:30 PM

It would be hard to justify picking Texas #2. How do you put them ahead of Pitt and UConn, 2 teams with better records that beat them, as did USC?

Probably becuase when they are asked to rank their teams they are going by the right now way of thinking. As in who at this very moment is playing the best regardless of the full body of work.

DevilHorns

01-30-2011, 03:02 AM

Look, I know even paranoids have enemies, but I totally agree with Lord Ash's comments on this post. Jay is an utter professional. He says what he thinks, except in on-air discussions when he will sometimes take a side of the argument for the sake of an argument. Jay is smart, literate, and well spoken with excellent analytical reasoning (I mean, Duke Law must be good for something). He also can be really funny. (After a messy Carolina game: "Everyone in the first three rows received a Carolina pass tonight." Or, "Only a dog can hear Ryan Harrow's voice. That's how high-pitched it is.")

And BTW isn't it great to have alums in the media like Bilas, JWill, Gminski, Spanarkel, Feinstein and Seth Davis to complain about?

sagegrouse

Jay is a professional, I wholeheartedly agree. He is probably the most liked out of all major college basketball analysts out there. UNC fans love him. UK fans love him. KU fans love him. If you go and visit pretty much any other team's message board out there you'll see quickly that Jay is pretty much universally adored.

It is only on Duke message boards where there is a pretty big divide on how fans see him. I think he is an incredibly intelligent and insightful analyst. I also think that he sometimes takes the side against Duke at an attempt to appear unbiased. I'm sure in his heart of hearts his favorite team is Duke, just as I believe G-man's is. But if you listen to G-man call a Duke game, he's stays neutral and is engaging. Do you honestly feel that way when Jay calls a Duke game? I sometimes find myself scratching my head at the things he points out that puts Duke in a negative light. It feels very purposeful. I like Jay and I feel that he brings a lot to the table as an analyst. I also feel that he sometimes stretches a bit to make himself appear unbiased. Just my opinion.

HateCarolina

01-30-2011, 08:33 AM

Jay is a professional, I wholeheartedly agree. He is probably the most liked out of all major college basketball analysts out there. UNC fans love him. UK fans love him. KU fans love him. If you go and visit pretty much any other team's message board out there you'll see quickly that Jay is pretty much universally adored.

It is only on Duke message boards where there is a pretty big divide on how fans see him. I think he is an incredibly intelligent and insightful analyst. I also think that he sometimes takes the side against Duke at an attempt to appear unbiased. I'm sure in his heart of hearts his favorite team is Duke, just as I believe G-man's is. But if you listen to G-man call a Duke game, he's stays neutral and is engaging. Do you honestly feel that way when Jay calls a Duke game? I sometimes find myself scratching my head at the things he points out that puts Duke in a negative light. It feels very purposeful. I like Jay and I feel that he brings a lot to the table as an analyst. I also feel that he sometimes stretches a bit to make himself appear unbiased. Just my opinion.

Let me start off by saying I am still a Bilas fan despite him saying that Allen Fieldhouse is the best venue in college basketball. I both agree and disagree with the above post. Jay does sometime bug the heck out of me when Jay goes out of his way to seem unbiased, but to say Gminiski is completely unbiased seems like a stretch. Don't get me wrong I love to tune in and see that he's calling one of our games, but he does show some Duke bias in his analysis.

What I would really like to see one time would be a three commentators together....you could have Mike Patrick in the middle flanked by two analysyts...Len Elmore (who now only sometimes annoys the he!! out of me) and G-Man....could you imagine the professional "trash" talking between these two. When I say trash talking I do not mean they would be rude, but rather keep it at a high professional level, but still nonetheless get their jabs in over the course of the game.

77devil

01-30-2011, 08:55 AM

"during cliffhanger victory against Notre Dame in their senior year " 2/16/86 at Duke

Part of his 2-9 body of work against the Devils, and a reminder of why Digger dislikes Duke. Sorry to diverge from the thread topic, but Digger is Jay's colleague on Game Day so it's not a total highjack. :D

lotusland

01-30-2011, 09:10 AM

cptnflash

01-30-2011, 09:47 AM

It would be hard to justify picking Texas #2. How do you put them ahead of Pitt and UConn, 2 teams with better records that beat them, as did USC?

Pomeroy has Texas at #4 in the country, ahead of both Pitt and UConn. Head to head results are pretty much meaningless in terms of determining relative strength, as the sample size is too small.

Texas also has a much easier conference schedule the rest of the way and could wind up winning the Big 12 without a loss. No one will get out of the Big East without at least 3 conference losses. I don't know about #2 in the country, but Texas looks to have a very good shot at a #1 seed (assuming they don't implode like last year).

TexHawk

01-30-2011, 05:19 PM

Yeah, I am sorry, but that is just unacceptable. I have always stood by Jay as some folks have felt he has gone "too far" in trying to present himself as not playing favorites, but give me a damn break.
Can you explain why it is THAT unacceptable? Have you been to AFH? It gets loud, has a ton of history, and opposing teams rarely win inside. It's not like Bilas was just trying to be nice to the local YMCA.

(Full disclosure, I am a KU fan.)

sagegrouse

01-30-2011, 05:28 PM

Can you explain why it is THAT unacceptable? Have you been to AFH? It gets loud, has a ton of history, and opposing teams rarely win inside. It's not like Bilas was just trying to be nice to the local YMCA.

(Full disclosure, I am a KU fan.)

Uh TexHawk -- it is ready, AIM, fire -- not ready, fire, AIM. Lord Ash was railing at DevilHorns for criticizing Jay for the AFH selection. He shouldn't be your target.

sagegrouse

Lord Ash

01-30-2011, 05:53 PM

Actually, Sage, I'm sorry, on this one I am actually genuinely annoyed with Jay. It is for two reasons, but they really combine to create a single reason.

First, Cameron is one of best sports venues in the world, no matter the sport and no matter if you are talking college or pro sports, and when it comes to college sports in particular, it is hard to match Cameron. A number of people have stated this for a LOT of years...

Here is a link about Cameron compared to other college sports venues, from SI... came in second to the Rose Bowl. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0707/campus.top10.venues/content.9.html)

Here is another from CNN/SI, about the top 20 venues, college or professional, in the 20th Century... Cameron comes in fourth, behind Yankee Stadium and Augusta National. Phog does not make the top twenty. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/centurys_best/news/1999/06/02/top_venues/)

Here is a piece from CBS about basketball arenas, placing Cameron above Phog Allen...
(http://www.cbssports.com/b/page/pressbox/0,1328,4165358,00.html)

Hell, here is JAY HIMSELF, when he was NOT busy pandering AT Kansas, saying Cameron is the best venue in college basketball. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1974962)

So. That is part one; I really disagree the idea that Phog is a better place to watch a game than Cameron, and it is a hard argument to make.

But I don't get annoyed until we get to the ALL important Part Two...

Jay is a damned Duke grad and a former player and coach. I am sorry... as a Duke grad and former athlete myself, I find it unacceptable for him to NOT choose Cameron, and especially not in what is, frankly, a head-scratching choice.

Listen, if he is predicting a national champ or discussing play or something that is an actual, legit piece of "journalism" fine, I accept that Jay feels that he has to seem impartial.

But for him to NOT side with Duke in something as relative as this really chaps my rear. Jay, this is the sort of thing where you stick by your school... you don't throw it under the bus because you want to make the students behind you cheer. There comes a point in sports when you stick up for your own, and not only is it okay, it should be expected. Personally I LIKE when Hubert Davis sticks up for Carolina... I like it when Len Elmore sticks up for Maryland. At the heart of it I respect them for it, because I know that, at one point, they wore those colors and that pride is burned into their hearts. And honestly, I smile at it and understand it and ultimately appreciate that loyalty.

I love Jay and think he is a GREAT representative of our University. I defend him at almost every turn when folks say stupid things about his love for Duke. But this one, I felt, wasn't right.

TexHawk

01-31-2011, 12:30 AM

So. That is part one; I really disagree the idea that Phog is a better place to watch a game than Cameron, and it is a hard argument to make.

Well, my only point was that it is not outrageous for someone to think that AFH is a pretty good place to watch a basketball game. In pretty much every discussion on this, CIS and AFH are in there. That's all I am saying.

As for the best? Depends on what you're looking for, I suppose. I have no interest in top 10 lists from journalists, everything is entirely subjective. The craziest crowd/arena I have ever seen was at Gallagher-IBA in Stillwater, but they only get that way when their team is good or a top 5 opponent is in town.

I have seen games in both places (my brother went to Duke), but I would prefer AFH any day of the week. Shocking I know, but I am a Kansas fan.

sagegrouse

01-31-2011, 12:37 AM

Actually, Sage, I'm sorry, on this one I am actually genuinely annoyed with Jay. It is for two reasons, but they really combine to create a single reason.

First, Cameron is one of best sports venues in the world, no matter the sport and no matter if you are talking college or pro sports, and when it comes to college sports in particular, it is hard to match Cameron. A number of people have stated this for a LOT of years...

[But I don't get annoyed until we get to the ALL important Part Two...

Jay is a damned Duke grad and a former player and coach. I am sorry... as a Duke grad and former athlete myself, I find it unacceptable for him to NOT choose Cameron, and especially not in what is, frankly, a head-scratching choice.

Listen, if he is predicting a national champ or discussing play or something that is an actual, legit piece of "journalism" fine, I accept that Jay feels that he has to seem impartial.

But for him to NOT side with Duke in something as relative as this really chaps my rear. Jay, this is the sort of thing where you stick by your school... you don't throw it under the bus because you want to make the students behind you cheer. There comes a point in sports when you stick up for your own, and not only is it okay, it should be expected. Personally I LIKE when Hubert Davis sticks up for Carolina... I like it when Len Elmore sticks up for Maryland. At the heart of it I respect them for it, because I know that, at one point, they wore those colors and that pride is burned into their hearts. And honestly, I smile at it and understand it and ultimately appreciate that loyalty.

I love Jay and think he is a GREAT representative of our University. I defend him at almost every turn when folks say stupid things about his love for Duke. But this one, I felt, wasn't right.

Oops! I thought you were criticizing the quoted poster, not Jay.

You and I disagree then. If Jay ever gets a reputation as a homer, he is finished as a top-tier basketball analyst. He is paid to give a considered, highly knowledgeable and independent opinion, and I doubt he has much trouble doing so. He is also paid to be extremely well-spoken, and he is. The dwindling number of areas where I have expertise (and college hoops ain't one of them) has taught me that it is really, really easy to have critical insights. Often the problem is soft-pedaling harsh criticism or expressing your analysis in a more interesting way without alienating your audience. In fact, flaws and errors jump off the page or through your binoculars, even if they come from your own blood relatives. And, good grief, in addition to being schooled in formal reasoning, Jay was a frigging assistant coach for K for several years -- you mean he can't see mistakes on the floor independent of the color of the uniform?

What drives me buggy on DBR, which is one of the best fan sites, is that every Duke commentator is asked to take a loyalty oath to the Blue Devils before opening his trap or typing some words. And, of course, that oath would conflict with the terms of his contract, personal and business ethics, and any sense of fair play. I suspect this is my problem to work out. Thanks for reading this far -- if anyone has.

sagegrouse

johnb

01-31-2011, 10:19 AM

That picture of the five Duke players from 1986 is interesting because it's such an odd combo: Dawkins, Alarie, Ferry, Bilas and King.

The much more expected grouping would be Dawkins, Alarie, Amaker, Henderson and either Ferry or Bilas.

Whenever someone evokes the 1986 team, I wonder if there has ever been a group of players that went on to be more influential in its sport.

DevilHorns

02-02-2011, 11:13 PM

"Duke did not have a great team last year" - Jay Bilas, 2/2/11, during the tail end of the Duke @ MD game.

Coach K and his 4 rings disagree Jay. And so do I.

BlueintheFace

02-02-2011, 11:25 PM

I used to be a huge defender. I mean, a HUGE defender. I still think he is the best around most of the time, but I cannot deny it anymore.

He overcompensates, or his feelings have changed, or he is overplaying to the audience... I'm not sure which, but JAY BILAS IS BIASED WHEN IT COMES TO DUKE... and not in a good way

Lord Ash

02-02-2011, 11:28 PM

Coach K himself verbally and actively disagrees; in the locker room after the game he actually said that team was great, after a LONG year of saying they were various shades of good. I would tend to think winning a national title MEANS you are great. Maybe Jay is thinking more big picture or something.

I don't know... I love Jay, I know he loves Duke, and feel he is a GREAT rep for Duke... but man, he was off tonight. Missed a few obvious points (such as when Mason got smacked on the top of the head on a lay-up and Jay didn't seem to see where the foul happened, or on Jordan William's first foul or his rather obvious second foul that both announcers somehow missed) and then really went out of his way to repeatedly call out the refs when Kyle drew that charge... but then didn't do the same going the other way on a few of the Duke fouls, like one particular one on Ryan Kelly. The talking about how Maryland is a great place for basketball, in the face of all of the rioting and throwing things, seemed a bit off. Jay just seemed to be stretching tonight.

*sigh* I hate saying all of that, because I do love Jay, but tonight was not one of his best announcing jobs.

Oh, and the chuckle and the dentist comment after the replay of the Neal pick on Nolan was not okay in my opinion. Watching Nolan writhing there on the floor is still a really uncomfortable feeling for me.

DevilHorns

02-02-2011, 11:42 PM

Coach K himself verbally and actively disagrees; in the locker room after the game he actually said that team was great, after a LONG year of saying they were various shades of good.

I don't know... I love Jay, I know he loves Duke, and feel he is a GREAT rep for Duke... but man, he was off tonight. Missed a few obvious points (such as when Mason got smacked on the top of the head on a lay-up and Jay didn't seem to see where the foul happened, or on Jordan William's first foul or his rather obvious second foul that both announcers somehow missed) and then really went out of his way to repeatedly call out the refs when Kyle drew that charge... but then didn't do the same going the other way on a few of the Duke fouls, like one particular one on Ryan Kelly. The talking about how Maryland is a great place for basketball, in the face of all of the rioting and throwing things, seemed a bit off. Jay just seemed to be stretching tonight.

*sigh* I hate saying all of that, because I do love Jay, but tonight was not one of his best announcing jobs.

Oh, and the chuckle and the dentist comment after the replay of the Neal pick on Nolan was not okay in my opinion. Watching Nolan writhing there on the floor is still a really uncomfortable feeling for me.

It's not just this game. If you watch his enthusiasm when talking about Duke players vs the opponents' players doing good things on the court it becomes obvious. He has a bias. Listen to the tone of his voice and examine his word choice when describing players and plays. It's blatant.

I'm sure in his heart his team is Duke. But he needs to realize that he doesn't have to try so hard hating us to appease the anti-Duke masses. I'm not sure he even realizes it now. He's so used to the party-line.

And how he chuckled at the scene of Nolan getting a concussion from the screen a few years ago was ABSURD. I don't care if you are the biggest Bilas supporter. That was clearly out of line.

Stray Gator

02-03-2011, 12:01 AM

. . . What drives me buggy on DBR, which is one of the best fan sites, is that every Duke commentator is asked to take a loyalty oath to the Blue Devils before opening his trap or typing some words. And, of course, that oath would conflict with the terms of his contract, personal and business ethics, and any sense of fair play. I suspect this is my problem to work out. Thanks for reading this far -- if anyone has.

sagegrouse

All that I believe we as fans are entitled to expect of any announcer (other than members of a school's broadcast crew, of course) is that they endeavor to be fair and neutral in describing the game. Enthusiasm is also terrific, provided it is relatively evenhanded. I think most Duke fans understand that, because of the prevailing sentiment about Duke among college basketball fans, any announcer who happens to be affiliated by background with Duke--whether as a former player, or coach, or student--will naturally be sensitive to the necessity of exhibiting no signs of partiality when discussing Duke's team, to protect against the potential erosion of their credibility.

Because I understand that concern and recognize its legitimacy, I have not generally been bothered by or critical of Jay's efforts to avoid showing any favoritism towards Duke. But I must say that, in my opinion, Jay's commentary during the Duke v. Maryland game tonight cannot fairly be characterized as neutral and objective. In fact, it seemed to me that Jay made no pretense of impartiality in promoting the home team. My frustration finally prompted me, about midway through the second half, to do something I've never done--I turned down the audio of the broadcast.

I know that Jay sometimes reads or is alerted to posts on this board relating to his work. While I doubt that a few fans' disappointment will be regarded by him as cause for concern, I hope he will review the tape of that broadcast to examine and evaluate the fairness of his own commentary. I don't think anyone here wants Jay to be a cheerleader for Duke; but I believe he could be a little more charitable to Duke when the team deserves recognition for a good performance without damaging his credibility among fans of other schools.

moonpie23

02-03-2011, 12:08 AM

mac46

02-03-2011, 12:18 AM

please explain.....i was deep in the headphones listening to bob harris...

what did bilas say?

If I remember correctly, it wasn't Jay who was having a laugh about it, it was the play-by-play guy (can't remember who that was tonight). Jay was just saying that it was a legal pick and one of the other guys on the floor should have let Nolan know that he was about to get floored. Then they panned to Neal and they joked about how they wouldn't want to run into him either. It didn't really set off my indignant meter at the time, I think it was pretty innocuous.

Did anybody else catch Jay's line that Palsson is the best player in the ACC from Iceland? I lol'd.

BlueintheFace

02-03-2011, 01:24 AM

When Seth Curry hit one of his threes ... I could be mistaken, but.... I think I heard real disdain or disappointment. It was a shocking moment for me really. This game was like a lightbulb going on for me in terms of Bilas.

Defender no longer

-bdbd

02-03-2011, 01:26 AM

Yeah, it was the play-by-play guy who was laughing at the "dirty pick" on Nolan from a couple years ago. Maybe they should have continued to show the five minutes that he continued to lay there on the court essentially unconscious... wonder how much laughing they'd have had then... Geez. But I thought Jay tried to adroitly change the direction with the "I wouldn't want to run into him either..."

As they were going to one of the TV breaks, Jay made the comment, "Iceland is... hot," referencing the MD player from Iceland who'd made a couple buckets. But as the replay then shifted to Kyle making a shot, the other announcer added, "But Oregon is hotter!" Fade and queue the commercial. Very funny moment.

-bdbd

02-03-2011, 01:28 AM

soccerstud2210

02-03-2011, 01:36 AM

I had to mute my television. actually I do any game he is announcing. Knight is pretty much the only basketball announcer/analyst I can stomach

gep

02-03-2011, 02:25 AM

*sigh* I hate saying all of that, because I do love Jay, but tonight was not one of his best announcing jobs.

Oh, and the chuckle and the dentist comment after the replay of the Neal pick on Nolan was not okay in my opinion. Watching Nolan writhing there on the floor is still a really uncomfortable feeling for me.

The dentist comment definitely caught me off-guard. Seemed totally not necessary with *any* player hurt and on the floor. Sometimes, Jay seems like he's "lost it" with Duke, at least...

Duvall

02-03-2011, 08:08 AM

And how he chuckled at the scene of Nolan getting a concussion from the screen a few years ago was ABSURD. I don't care if you are the biggest Bilas supporter. That was clearly out of line.

I don't care even a little bit what Bilas thinks of Allen Fieldhouse, but that was repellant.

Concussions ruin lives (http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/01/28/concussions-effects--may-linger-for-decades) - concussions *end* lives (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/18/sports/football/18waters.html?pagewanted=all) - and they aren't funny.

Jay, if you read this board, or if someone still calls your attention to relevant posts on this board, I would really like to get an explanation for why you thought that Nolan Smith's brain injury was an appropriate topic for in-game filler humor.

1 24 90

02-03-2011, 08:19 AM

"Duke did not have a great team last year" - Jay Bilas, 2/2/11, during the tail end of the Duke @ MD game.

Coach K and his 4 rings disagree Jay. And so do I.

"World English Dictionary
team (tiːm)

— n
1. a group of people organized to work together"

I would think last year's players were a "great" embodiment of this definition.

Nrrrrvous

02-03-2011, 08:29 AM

As they were going to one of the TV breaks, Jay made the comment, "Iceland is... hot," referencing the MD player from Iceland who'd made a couple buckets. But as the replay then shifted to Kyle making a shot, the other announcer added, "But Oregon is hotter!" Fade and queue the commercial. Very funny moment.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who caught that. Loved the timing on it. Perfection...

CDu

02-03-2011, 08:35 AM

As they were going to one of the TV breaks, Jay made the comment, "Iceland is... hot," referencing the MD player from Iceland who'd made a couple buckets. But as the replay then shifted to Kyle making a shot, the other announcer added, "But Oregon is hotter!" Fade and queue the commercial. Very funny moment.

Pretty sure it was the other way around: play-by-play guy leads with the "Iceland is hot!" comment, and Bilas snuck in a "Oregon's hotter!" retort. But yes, pretty clever stuff.

4decadedukie

02-03-2011, 08:38 AM

That Jay, he's got a great sense of humor.

I agree with Sage and Ash. While there are many critical virtues, LOYALTY may be as crucial as any. If Jay's broadcasting ethics compel him to extol KU's Allen Field House aa superior to Cameron, perhaps it is time that he assess exactly what has enduring personal importance and consider retunrning to full-time legal practice.

Lord Ash

02-03-2011, 08:52 AM

I agree with Sage and Ash. While there are many critical virtues, LOYALTY may be as crucial as any. If Jay's broadcasting ethics compel him to extol KU's Allen Field House aa superior to Cameron, perhaps it is time that he assess exactly what has enduring personal importance and consider retunrning to full-time legal practice.

Yeah, and again I have to say; in ANY serious matter of sports journalism, Jay's general level-headedness and impartiality is a huge strength, and I applaud him for it, as I am sure most level-headed Dukies do. Loyalty to the Duke virtues of intellectual honesty and true and honest love of the game of basketball is vital:)

But with something as relative and personal as judging a place like Cameron... well, that is the place where I think you ARE allowed to stick up for your alma mater. Top that off with talking about how great Maryland is for basketball (when all we've seen is water bottle throwing, f-you chants, signs about having intercourse with little girls, and fans who riot post-game... topped off with fans who get AWFUL quiet when things go badly) and... well... what can I say.

As far as the chuckle during the replay of the pick, maybe it was the play-by-play guy, but the dentist comment was Jay. I've played hockey for many years... I covered a few NHL teams for Fox Sports, worked on a few books about hockey (including one specifically about brawlers) and have seen, first-hand, how damaging such a physical sport can be. It bothers me when I see a guy get hurt in hockey, even if it is not a serious injury, and when a guy goes down with a concussion (see Lindros, Eric) it simply is not a laughing matter or even a grinning matter. The Nolan shot in particular really bothers me, and I didn't love the tone the announce team took regarding it.

I did love the Iceland-Oregon joke, especially considering I spent about five hours yesterday shoveling off my roof, chipping out my ice dams, and cutting through to my driveway.

ramdevil

02-03-2011, 08:55 AM

It seemed to me that Jay began the game actively rooting for Md - saying what they needed to do on offense and defense to win the game while not giving similar comments about Duke. It was forced. But by the end of the game, I thought he was coming around to rooting for Duke instead - like he couldn't help himself. I thought it was striking that he really pushed Md, especially after his great quotes in the Wash DC column about Coach K.

Personally, I preferred Brad Daugherty as an announcer. But he's off doing racing now.

ramdevil

Duvall

02-03-2011, 09:00 AM

Lord Ash

02-03-2011, 09:03 AM

Unless, of course, he actually thinks Allen Fieldhouse is better.

You know what? Call me a homer or whatever, but in that case, I think as a proud Duke grad, in such a relatively minor issue, you still side with the school whose jersey you wore, the arena you played in, and the fans who cheered you on when you played, even if done with a smile... or you just stay quiet. It felt like pandering to the crowd that he was sitting right in front of, especially given that Jay himself has said that Cameron is the best arena in college basketball.

KyDevilinIL

02-03-2011, 09:16 AM

I dunno. I still think Jay's just calling it as he sees it. He's not a trained journalist, but he's an exceptionally smart guy, and he understands impartiality and honesty better than 90 percent of the sports media, many of whom are disgusting homers, blatant freeloaders or unabashed rabble rousers. Jay seems much different, and that's the identity he's consciously made for himself.

ESPN has forced sports journalism to mutate and fold in on itself. There are former print journalists who are now TV journalists but also opinion givers, there are talking heads who are former players and coaches and still have allegiances to various schools and coaches and conferences. Occasionally it produces valuable information and insight. Most times it creates an impenetrable noise. It's impossible sometimes to tell what's real and what's an agenda.

Jay tries super hard not to have an agenda. I don't particularly think he's mean to Duke; I think he understands he's talking to a range of fans, and just because he played at and graduated from one school doesn't mean he has no obligation to be fair to all the others. He hasn't quite perfected the art, but he's much, much better at it than most, especially on ESPN.

Besides, it's possible to love something or someone but also to recognize that entity's imperfections. Duke is not perfect. There are other schools, buildings and programs that are worth celebrating. I'm sure Duke holds a special place with Jay, but I see no reason why that would hinder his ability to look at the big picture in college basketball objectively.

77devil

02-03-2011, 09:34 AM

Unless, of course, he actually thinks Allen Fieldhouse is better.

Except that he doesn't, although I guess he's entitled to change his mind.

Jay Bilas quote: "All-Time Best: Cameron Indoor Stadium: I played there for four years, and was an assistant coach there for three, and there is no other place like it. "

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1974962

Last night during Duke's last possession in the first half, Jay mused how drawing a charge would be huge for MD. I almost hurled. He's preferable to Elmore, but that's a pretty low bar. Almost makes me wistful for Dickie V. I said almost.

Lord Ash

02-03-2011, 09:41 AM

I don't mind him saying that a charge would be a big play, because it would have been Nolan's third and would have been huge.

wilko

02-03-2011, 09:52 AM

Lord Ash

02-03-2011, 09:54 AM

I cut him some slack on this kinda thing.

He has something to sell - HIMSELF on TV.
If he were to "appear" to be a Duke homer, how far would he go? Prolly not very, cuz the rest of the world doesn't seem really receptive to that message. Hes doing a job, plain and simple.

If you want to take it personal and hold grudges, fine that's on you.

It would be a different story in my mind if he showed up to former player events, alumni functions, banquets etc spouting the same lines...

Maybe he has an I just haven't heard about it. I'd prefer not to know about that, frankly...

Jay has always been very gracious, humble, and thankful any time he deals with or discusses Duke outside of his broadcasting. He regularly contributes his time to Duke, and participates in many Duke basketball activities. He loves Duke as much as anyone, and has been very clear about that when not on the air.

4decadedukie

02-03-2011, 10:07 AM

Unless, of course, he actually thinks Allen Fieldhouse is better.

In questions of substance, of course, you are completely correct; however, this is not such a matter. Whereas, in issues that are entirely emotional and wholly subjective, I believe love and loyalty -- for Duke, in this instance -- have clear primacy. To illustrate this concept, my grandchildren may not be as precocious, or charming, or altruistic, or clever as others -- BUT THEY ARE MINE, AND I WOULD NEVER FAIL TO SUPPORT THEM FULLY in areas that are inconsequential.

jtelander

02-03-2011, 10:16 AM

I wouldn't read anything into Bilas's pick. He just said Allen Fieldhouse is the best venue in College Basketball so...

I daresay that Jay has seen more arenas than most folks here.

Cameron is by far the best venue I have ever experienced. I've never been to Allen Fieldhouse so I can't say with certaintly that it isn't the best.

Reilly

02-03-2011, 10:18 AM

... It's impossible sometimes to tell what's real and what's an agenda. Jay tries super hard not to have an agenda. ... I see no reason why that would hinder his ability to look at the big picture in college basketball objectively.

I agree with a lot of your post (about espn noise, but Jay's general excellence). What gets me is that 99% of the time, Jay tells it like it is, and he's beyond excellent in that. Then, when it comes to Duke, it seems there's some disingenuousness in his analysis: in an effort to appear to be even-handed and to appear to call 'em as he sees 'em, he in fact doesn't.

He looks at the big picture in college b'ball objectively (or, as he genuinely feels). Does it wonderfully. It doesn't seem that way with Duke-related analysis, unfortunately. It sounds a bit hollow and discordant as compared to his usual truth-telling.

epoulsen

02-03-2011, 10:23 AM

I can understand and respect staying swiss during the broadcast for the sake of professionalism, but thats not really what Jay was doing. What did it for me wasn't so much the dentist joke (while it was utterly tasteless), or agreeing with blantantly horrible calls (simply annoying), it was what he said before the half. As Duke had the last possession and crossed mid-court he said (paraphrase) "A charge would be great right now". Any other broadcaster would have said something along the lines of "Maryland needs to make a big defensive stop to finish out the half", it's simple, un-biased and tells the truth which is that Maryland DID need to make a big defensive stop to finish the half, be it through a block, shot clock violation, a trap or a steal. But instead, Jay chose a specific OFFENSIVE foul, not a defensive set, and goes on to say that it would be great if said offensive foul were committed, not that it was what UMd needed or should try to draw, just that it would be great. One can speculate endlessly about what he meant by that, but no matter what the conclusion is it certainly was not a balanced or unbaised comment.

If you do read this Jay, I doubt you remember this but once during half time at CIS you were rushing to get back to the press box and plowed into my wife, causing her to spill coke all over the new jersey I had bought her. She looked at me I guess expecting me to drop kick you, clearly I did not. I told her the following:
"Babe, while I hate that there is soda all over your jersey, if there is anyone who can get away with doing that it's someone who actually wore that jersey to represent the school in competition."
I'm not saying you owe me one, but you definately owe the University and it's athletes a little respect, or at least the same amount you expected to be shown while you were there. I apologize for ranting, however the most aggrivating part or spectator of the Duke vs. UMd game should never be a Duke alum, let alone a Duke great.

HaveFunExpectToWin

02-03-2011, 10:34 AM

And how he chuckled at the scene of Nolan getting a concussion from the screen a few years ago was ABSURD. I don't care if you are the biggest Bilas supporter. That was clearly out of line.

That really ticked me off as well. It's not funny or amusing to watch someone get a concussion. IIRC Nolan had to sit out at least a couple games after he was knocked down, and didn't come back until the ACC semifinal. Hilarious Jay!

I don't care if Jay makes judgement on referee calls or speaks favorably of others team's stadiums or whatever. That doesn't bother me at all. However, it's incredibly poor form for him and Shulman to be yucking it up over that replay.

Perhaps I'm being more sensitive to it right now since Comcast Sportsnet already ran that same replay several times during the first Duke-MD game this year for no reason whatsoever. So not only was using this replay in poor taste, it was a ripoff of a lesser broadcaster. Well done ESPN.

mkline09

02-03-2011, 11:37 AM

I love Jay Bilas to death but last night he was really getting on my nerves. That being said I still like the guy and will always cut him a little extra slack because 1) he played for Duke and 2) he played the alien cop in the movie "I Come in Peace."

BlueintheFace

02-03-2011, 11:49 AM

Bilas is an amazing analytical mind and an asset to the sport as an announcer. When it comes to Duke, he goes beyond impartiality in the attempt to appease his audience (who is aware of his college background) and swings past the middle to the other side.

These statements are not logically inconsistent. I liken those who fail to see the bias/overcompensation/whathaveyou to fans who refuse to see failings in our own players. I too can write a paragraph here about how "oh, he just calls it like he sees it. See how good he is with every other game?" I could write a very persuasive argument with that tenor and have many times, but it is simply wrong. Just wrong. The bits and pieces of evidence keep piling up.

Let me ask this. Have a LARGE number of Duke fans always made the claim that Bilas is terrible to Duke and goes too far the other way? The answer is a resounding NO. Just 2 or 3 years ago a majority of threads referencing Mr. Bilas were positive and full of praise for his positive attributes. This is a relatively new development. Do people think it has materialized out of nothing? That Duke fans got bored and just decided to turn on their own?

Of course not. There is substance to the complaints and that is the best evidence.

NSDukeFan

02-03-2011, 12:17 PM

All that I believe we as fans are entitled to expect of any announcer (other than members of a school's broadcast crew, of course) is that they endeavor to be fair and neutral in describing the game. Enthusiasm is also terrific, provided it is relatively evenhanded. I think most Duke fans understand that, because of the prevailing sentiment about Duke among college basketball fans, any announcer who happens to be affiliated by background with Duke--whether as a former player, or coach, or student--will naturally be sensitive to the necessity of exhibiting no signs of partiality when discussing Duke's team, to protect against the potential erosion of their credibility.

Because I understand that concern and recognize its legitimacy, I have not generally been bothered by or critical of Jay's efforts to avoid showing any favoritism towards Duke. But I must say that, in my opinion, Jay's commentary during the Duke v. Maryland game tonight cannot fairly be characterized as neutral and objective. In fact, it seemed to me that Jay made no pretense of impartiality in promoting the home team. My frustration finally prompted me, about midway through the second half, to do something I've never done--I turned down the audio of the broadcast.

I know that Jay sometimes reads or is alerted to posts on this board relating to his work. While I doubt that a few fans' disappointment will be regarded by him as cause for concern, I hope he will review the tape of that broadcast to examine and evaluate the fairness of his own commentary. I don't think anyone here wants Jay to be a cheerleader for Duke; but I believe he could be a little more charitable to Duke when the team deserves recognition for a good performance without damaging his credibility among fans of other schools.

I agree very much with your well thought out post. I also think very highly of Jay, feel he is one of the better analysts in college basketball and usually am happy to hear him broadcast a game, including most Duke games, as I feel he normally strives to appear impartial. I also don't mind the Allen Fieldhouse comment as it is a legitimate possibility for best place to watch a game, from what I have heard. I just felt (and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt) that Jay may have had an off night last night as I wasn't sure whether I was listening to him or Len Elmore for parts of the game. There just seemed to be too many occasions where he was overly critical of Duke and calls going the team's way that appeared to be the obvious call on replay and not questioning some of the blatant questionable calls the other way (with Williams living on the free throw line for sometimes questionable reasons.) Maybe in this case, he Jay just went too far the other way to appear credible and unfortunately had a poor game.

Onlyduke

02-03-2011, 02:13 PM

I get REALLY frustrated with Jay Bilas. I get so tired of him saying, "this is how you beat Duke ........" Why doesn't he just sit with the opposing team and give them tips? Come on, Jay .... you wore a Duke uniform at one time!

_Gary

02-03-2011, 02:29 PM

I can understand and respect staying swiss during the broadcast for the sake of professionalism, but thats not really what Jay was doing. What did it for me wasn't so much the dentist joke (while it was utterly tasteless), or agreeing with blantantly horrible calls (simply annoying), it was what he said before the half. As Duke had the last possession and crossed mid-court he said (paraphrase) "A charge would be great right now". Any other broadcaster would have said something along the lines of "Maryland needs to make a big defensive stop to finish out the half", it's simple, un-biased and tells the truth which is that Maryland DID need to make a big defensive stop to finish the half, be it through a block, shot clock violation, a trap or a steal. But instead, Jay chose a specific OFFENSIVE foul, not a defensive set, and goes on to say that it would be great if said offensive foul were committed, not that it was what UMd needed or should try to draw, just that it would be great. One can speculate endlessly about what he meant by that, but no matter what the conclusion is it certainly was not a balanced or unbaised comment.

I mentioned this in another thread as one of the things Jay said that I felt went beyond being a nuetral, unbiased commentator and instead fell into the "I don't want to be viewed as a biased Duke analyst so I'm going to go to the other extreme" type of comment. And I'm pretty sure he didn't say a charge would be "great." He said a charge here would be "huge" or "big." Now, while that is true and in some cases might be a point an announcer might be expected to make, it just sounded very close (I'm speaking of not only the words, but the way or tone Jay said it) to be something I'd only expect a Maryland announcer to make. But a national announcer? Nah. It just didn't sound right to me. And again, it's not the words or the observation. It was the way and tone in which it was said. All I can say is it bothered me.

I'm in full agreement with what many have said here (although I admit I've been on Jay's case for a couple of years now about this subject). But as Stray said up-thread, last night was really the worst I've ever heard from Jay as it pertains to this bending over backwards to not come off as a Duke apologist or cheerleader. I just don't think he knows where the line is on this subject. He's going too far in the other direction and I wish he could really just be himself a bit more. At this point, I don't care to hear him do a Duke game any more than I want to hear Packer or Elmore do one. And that's pretty bad.

DBFAN

02-03-2011, 09:00 PM

I mentioned this in another thread as one of the things Jay said that I felt went beyond being a nuetral, unbiased commentator and instead fell into the "I don't want to be viewed as a biased Duke analyst so I'm going to go to the other extreme" type of comment. And I'm pretty sure he didn't say a charge would be "great." He said a charge here would be "huge" or "big." Now, while that is true and in some cases might be a point an announcer might be expected to make, it just sounded very close (I'm speaking of not only the words, but the way or tone Jay said it) to be something I'd only expect a Maryland announcer to make. But a national announcer? Nah. It just didn't sound right to me. And again, it's not the words or the observation. It was the way and tone in which it was said. All I can say is it bothered me.

I'm in full agreement with what many have said here (although I admit I've been on Jay's case for a couple of years now about this subject). But as Stray said up-thread, last night was really the worst I've ever heard from Jay as it pertains to this bending over backwards to not come off as a Duke apologist or cheerleader. I just don't think he knows where the line is on this subject. He's going too far in the other direction and I wish he could really just be himself a bit more. At this point, I don't care to hear him do a Duke game any more than I want to hear Packer or Elmore do one. And that's pretty bad.I hate to disagree but I am pretty sure he said a charge would be GREAT, that is what made it so strange

Spam Filter

02-04-2011, 02:09 AM

NSDukeFan

02-04-2011, 09:29 AM

While I think it's unquestionably true that Jay Bilas seems to be overly negative in his analysis of Duke, I think it is possible to give him the benefit of doubt as to why this is the case.

Possibility 1: he is too close to the Duke program. This is a pretty common phenomenon, that people who watches a player or team everyday very closely tend to be more critical of the player or team than people who don't. Because when you watch a team/player that closely you become much more cognizant of their flaws. Maybe this is what's happening, he is noticing Duke's flaws much more than the other teams because he watches them much more closely.

Possibility 2: he's sandbagging because Coach K wants him to. I don't think any team has ever lost a game because the announcer didn't think they can win, but plenty of teams have lost because everybody thought they couldn't lose and they end up buying into their own hype. Maybe Jay is helping Coach K to kept the team grounded and motivated by constantly downplaying their chances.

I don't think there are as many here who are having a problem with Jay's global analysis and where he is rating Duke nationally as much as his in-game comments. As far as his overall college basketball analysis your possibilities make sense and I think there may be some truth in them. I just had a problem with his one-sided in-game analysis of this particular game. I realize that he can't be seen as a homer for Duke, but he went quite a bit too far in the other direction in the Maryland game. I wouldn't even be that bothered by it except he is one of my favorite analysts and I usually enjoy when he is calling the game and of course because of his relationship to the program and coach.

_Gary

02-04-2011, 09:53 AM

I hate to disagree but I am pretty sure he said a charge would be GREAT, that is what made it so strange

If he said it that way, then it would explain why I was so shocked and repulsed by the comment. Unless someone recorded this and can state otherwise, I'll bow to your memory. And if that's the way he said it "a charge here would be great", then he honestly ought to be ashamed of himself. And yes, I'd say that if the shoe was on the other foot. Any national broadcaster that demonstrates that type of blatant bias should be ashamed (and if I was the head of said network, I'd also hand down an official reprimand). I'm sure for many that sounds extreme but I'm just sick and tired of all this bull (going back, of course, to the infamous Packer comments in the Final Four and specifically the Finals in '01).

nmduke2001

02-04-2011, 09:56 AM

it was what he said before the half. As Duke had the last possession and crossed mid-court he said (paraphrase) "A charge would be great right now". Any other broadcaster would have said something along the lines of "Maryland needs to make a big defensive stop to finish out the half", it's simple, un-biased and tells the truth which is that Maryland DID need to make a big defensive stop to finish the half, be it through a block, shot clock violation, a trap or a steal. But instead, Jay chose a specific OFFENSIVE foul, not a defensive set, and goes on to say that it would be great if said offensive foul were committed, not that it was what UMd needed or should try to draw, just that it would be great. One can speculate endlessly about what he meant by that, but no matter what the conclusion is it certainly was not a balanced or unbaised comment.

I think people are being too sensitive. Bilas was right; it would have been huge for Maryland to get a charge on Nolan at that point. It would have given one of our best players his 3rd foul. The third foul would have been much bigger than a defensive stop. It would have been great for Maryland and terrible for Duke.

I looked over at my wife when Coach put Nolan back in for the last play and said, "I hope he doesn't pick up an offensive foul."

I don't understand the heartburn.

Bilas often comments on how Mason is one of the most talented players he has ever seen. Mason's play on the court doesn't often warrant such praise, but Jay still gives it to him. Is he being unbiased in that regard?

crimsonandblue

02-04-2011, 10:34 AM

You know what? Call me a homer or whatever, but in that case, I think as a proud Duke grad, in such a relatively minor issue, you still side with the school whose jersey you wore, the arena you played in, and the fans who cheered you on when you played, even if done with a smile... or you just stay quiet. It felt like pandering to the crowd that he was sitting right in front of, especially given that Jay himself has said that Cameron is the best arena in college basketball.

Ash,

Your link to Jay's note that Cameron was the best was from 2005. I don't know that it makes much of a difference, but that's two renovations to Allen ago. Allen kept the seating area unchanged, but otherwise improved lighting, scoreboards, and sound system. And the concourses were completely updated and the Kansas "Booth Family" Hall of Athletics bolstered (a sort of KU sports hall of fame/museum). I imagine these things won't sway your opinion, but Allen has kept the basketball the same and vastly improved the surrounding building for fans, big shots and players and coaches. So, it's not impossible that Bilas has seen these improvements and changed his mind.

Here's a wikipedia summary of what's changed:

Renovations completed in 2005 include a thorough cleaning of the exterior, and the creation of a new Booth Family Hall of Athletics facility on the east side of the Fieldhouse. Interior renovations include a new hardwood court, new windows, and a multi-million dollar video board and sound system. After 2006, new banners for the retired jerseys and conference and national championships were installed.
Renovations completed in 2009 include an expansion of the Booth Family Hall of Athletics and the creation of a donor atrium, as well as improved concessions, wider concourses, and restroom upgrades. The building also received brand new locker rooms, training rooms, film rooms, and player lounges. A pedestrian bridge connecting the fieldhouse to the existing facility parking garage was also constructed. The improvements cost approximately $7.8 million.

In December of 2010, the Booth family announced that they had purchased the founding document of the game of basketball, Dr. Naismith's original 13 rules of basketball. It is expected that the document will be permanently housed inside Allen Fieldhouse.

I'll let you get back to beating on Bilas.

4decadedukie

02-04-2011, 10:38 AM

I think people are being too sensitive . . . I don't understand the heartburn.

I expect the "heartburn" may result from a somewhat widely held perception, among interested Duke fans and alumni, that Jay may -- unnecessarily, and with some frequency -- demean (I wish I could find a better, more-benign word) Duke simply to demonstrate his “journalistic” impartiality.

MCFinARL

02-04-2011, 11:06 AM

In questions of substance, of course, you are completely correct; however, this is not such a matter. Whereas, in issues that are entirely emotional and wholly subjective, I believe love and loyalty -- for Duke, in this instance -- have clear primacy. To illustrate this concept, my grandchildren may not be as precocious, or charming, or altruistic, or clever as others -- BUT THEY ARE MINE, AND I WOULD NEVER FAIL TO SUPPORT THEM FULLY in areas that are inconsequential.

Well, sure, but you're not a paid professional grandchild commentator, right? Obviously people could differ on this, but to me, for Bilas to say that Allen Fieldhouse is the premier college basketball venue doesn't strike me as an important breach of loyalty, if only because it is so subjective and inconsequential. If he started publicly criticizing Coach K, a man he obviously respects, in order to juice ratings, THAT would be disloyal in my book.

As for comments like "here's how you beat Duke," well, maybe he doesn't offer that kind of analysis re the other team because the other team is usually the underdog. And if opposing coaches need to rely on Jay Bilas's analysis to figure out how to play against Duke, well, they are already in trouble.

I didn't see the replay of the hit on Nolan so can't really comment on that, though chuckling does seem inappropriate--although it would be inappropriate regardless of the team affiliation of the injured player.

Otherwise, it's my impression (based on the large volume of stupid, inane, or inaccurate sports commentary I have heard over the years) that calling a game and keeping that airtime filled is actually pretty hard. Bilas, like other commentators, may not have nearly as much time in a game situation to parse the implications of saying, for example, that a charge would be "great" as opposed to "big" as those of us who comment on this board do.

PS--I know most of this post addresses comments not made by you, 4decadedukie--but I was too lazy to include the other quotations.

Reilly

02-04-2011, 11:33 AM

I expect the "heartburn" may result from a somewhat widely held perception, among interested Duke fans and alumni, that Jay may -- unnecessarily, and with some frequency -- demean (I wish I could find a better, more-benign word) Duke simply to demonstrate his “journalistic” impartiality.

Rather than "demean," we need a phrase meaning a "pulling of (positive) punches." He pulls his punches in the sense of not giving all he has when it comes to Duke. Maybe "withholds what seemingly would be his truly felt and all-due praise" rather than "demean"?

calltheobvious

02-04-2011, 12:22 PM

I think people are being too sensitive. Bilas was right; it would have been huge for Maryland to get a charge on Nolan at that point. It would have given one of our best players his 3rd foul. The third foul would have been much bigger than a defensive stop. It would have been great for Maryland and terrible for Duke.

I looked over at my wife when Coach put Nolan back in for the last play and said, "I hope he doesn't pick up an offensive foul."

I don't understand the heartburn.

Bilas often comments on how Mason is one of the most talented players he has ever seen. Mason's play on the court doesn't often warrant such praise, but Jay still gives it to him. Is he being unbiased in that regard?

If this has already been posted, then I missed it. But the exact quote from Bilas at 00:25 of the first half was, "A charge would be a really big play." I think there's a huge difference between "a really big play" and "great."

sagegrouse

02-04-2011, 12:42 PM

I didn't see the replay of the hit on Nolan so can't really comment on that, though chuckling does seem inappropriate--although it would be inappropriate regardless of the team affiliation of the injured player.

.

The decision to show the Nolan Smith injury from a pick by Dave Neal was made in the truck by the producer and not by either announcer. Get used to seeing it when either Nolan or Dave Neal are in the house (or esp. both). TV loves visuals, and as awful as it is, it is a really strong visual -- both the contact and the aftermath.

sagegrouse

NashvilleDevil

02-04-2011, 12:46 PM

tele

02-05-2011, 03:55 PM

The decision to show the Nolan Smith injury from a pick by Dave Neal was made in the truck by the producer and not by either announcer.
sagegrouse

Vgood point about this decision coming from producer in truck. There was another instance where JBilas started to make a comment about a key play in the game, a quick shot and miss by a Md player when Md was within 5, and JB interrupted himself in mid sentence and qualified what he was saying, with obviously you don't want to single out one player for costing you the game etc. I thought then that the qualification was coming from the producer in the truck to Jay's ear and that probably a lot of the other pro Maryland comments were too. To JB's credit it was a key point in the game but just shows to what extent they were going to avoid sounding anything less than impartial to Md.

I still give JayB the benefit of the doubt on these comments which seem slanted away from appearing pro duke and also away from true impartiality. Although, if Duke had lost the game I may have felt a little differently. When JBilas played at Duke he was a great team player, I would expect he is in his current position with ESPN as well. And with Espn getting the coverage for the NCAA tournament JB's role could soon be growing, maybe he is in the running to be on the lead announcing team. I could see why ESPN would want to avoid any possible nasty fan backlash from doing a MD home game, not an unknown event with twerp fans (as their tweets tell).

It's too bad that things had been allowed to get so out of hand at Maryland for Duke games, not to mention the more general, widespread anti Duke stuff. When the Md school leaders had to resort to getting the students into the gym 4 hours early so they'd be sober for the game, and giving them all "nonprofane" matching shirts as part of a welcome Md atttempt to try and avoid actual riots and arrests, then a few overboard comments by the announcer don't seem so earthshaking. The ESPN crew was probably glad to get out of there without getting hit with any thrown waterbottles or hot pennies or having any profane chants audible on their gamecast. Certainly, none of this makes beating them by 18 on their homecourt any less sweet.

sagegrouse

02-05-2011, 04:02 PM

............................

It's too bad that things had been allowed to get so out of hand at Maryland for Duke games, not to mention the more general, widespread anti Duke stuff. When the Md school leaders had to resort to getting the students into the gym 4 hours early so they'd be sober for the game, and giving them all "nonprofane" matching shirts as part of a welcome Md atttempt to try and avoid actual riots and arrests, then a few overboard comments by the announcer don't seem so earthshaking. The ESPN crew was probably glad to get out of there without getting hit with any thrown waterbottles or hot pennies or having any profane chants audible on their gamecast. Certainly, none of this makes beating them by 18 on their homecourt any less sweet.

Here's my fearless forecast for next year's game at Comcast: good fan behavior by Maryland will be a one-year phenomenom. Because Maryland lost by 18, forget this year's stuff. Next year will be business as usual. Wear your hard hat and your steel-toed boots.

agegrouse

Jason W

02-05-2011, 04:49 PM

Of course, both Ferry and Alarie were versatile enough to plat the 3 or the 4 (or, in Ferry's case, the 5)

Didn't Alarie spend either his freshmen or sophomore year at the 5??

Sir Stealth

02-05-2011, 10:04 PM

While I think it's unquestionably true that Jay Bilas seems to be overly negative in his analysis of Duke, I think it is possible to give him the benefit of doubt as to why this is the case.

Possibility 1: he is too close to the Duke program. This is a pretty common phenomenon, that people who watches a player or team everyday very closely tend to be more critical of the player or team than people who don't. Because when you watch a team/player that closely you become much more cognizant of their flaws. Maybe this is what's happening, he is noticing Duke's flaws much more than the other teams because he watches them much more closely.

Possibility 2: he's sandbagging because Coach K wants him to. I don't think any team has ever lost a game because the announcer didn't think they can win, but plenty of teams have lost because everybody thought they couldn't lose and they end up buying into their own hype. Maybe Jay is helping Coach K to kept the team grounded and motivated by constantly downplaying their chances.

Count me as someone who is much more upset about comments like those sandbagging last year's team. It's one thing to be critical in analyzing a current team, but it's something altogether to diminish Duke's accomplishments by going completely out of your way to reinforce an underselling the accomplishments of a team that won the National Championship.

I'm not even sure that loudly insisting that last year's Duke team wasn't great bothers me as much for Jay's Duke issue as it does for elevating the value of his own analysis of last year's teams over the events that actually happened on the basketball court.

SMO

02-05-2011, 10:34 PM

The decision to show the Nolan Smith injury from a pick by Dave Neal was made in the truck by the producer and not by either announcer. Get used to seeing it when either Nolan or Dave Neal are in the house (or esp. both). TV loves visuals, and as awful as it is, it is a really strong visual -- both the contact and the aftermath.

sagegrouse

The above is absolutely true. What was very disappointing to me is that Bilas not only made light of it, but made a joke out of it by mentioning the "dental work" Nolan might have needed afterward. Concussions are no joking matter.

I've met Bilas in person and have a great deal of respect for his analysis. I wish he would apologize for his comments during the replay of the pick and its aftermath. It was the all-time low for him in broadcasting as far as I'm concerned. I think he's one of the smartest guys in the college basketball media and that's why I'm so disappointed by his comments.

dukebluelemur

02-05-2011, 11:06 PM

The above is absolutely true. What was very disappointing to me is that Bilas not only made light of it, but made a joke out of it by mentioning the "dental work" Nolan might have needed afterward. Concussions are no joking matter.

I've met Bilas in person and have a great deal of respect for his analysis. I wish he would apologize for his comments during the replay of the pick and its aftermath. It was the all-time low for him in broadcasting as far as I'm concerned. I think he's one of the smartest guys in the college basketball media and that's why I'm so disappointed by his comments.

Agreed. I don't care how biased/unbiased/anti-biased Jay is with regard to Duke. While I would love to listen to a game where the broadcasters are cheering for Duke, I won't hold anything in that department against him... as long as he represents Duke well as far as his character is concerned. No sexist incidents like with Billy Packer, etc. That's why the reaction to Nolan's concussion disappointed me so much and why I feel it is a completely separate issue from those people who are disappointed he doesn't lead cheers for Duke from the booth. It lacked the class that I've come to expect from him.

Lord Ash

02-09-2011, 11:26 PM

Okay... so maybe we should keep count?

ARENAS THAT ARE BETTER THAN CAMERON INDOOR
(According to Jay Bilas)

Phog (Kansas)
Carmichael (UNC)

*sigh*

gsurgeon

02-09-2011, 11:33 PM

What's with Jay having to think about it on sportscenter after the carolina game as to which arena he would rather watch the game in, and then kind of giving the tossup to Cameron but then saying where he'd most like to view it would be "awesome Carmichal"?

4decadedukie

02-09-2011, 11:40 PM

Okay... so maybe we should keep count?

ARENAS THAT ARE BETTER THAN CAMERON INDOOR
(According to Jay Bilas)

Phog (Kansas)
Carmichael (UNC)

*sigh*

I presume this simply cannot be correct. If it is . . .

DevilHorns

02-09-2011, 11:47 PM

Okay... so maybe we should keep count?

ARENAS THAT ARE BETTER THAN CAMERON INDOOR
(According to Jay Bilas)

Phog (Kansas)
Carmichael (UNC)

*sigh*

And to paraphrase here, he said something along the lines of 'I'm still not sure who is the better team, Duke still has to play at UNC'... who says something like that after an incredible come back from 14 points down at half?

basket1544

02-09-2011, 11:48 PM

At least he sort of picked Nolan as his Player of the Year candidate.

Lord Ash

02-09-2011, 11:49 PM

It is:(

Announcer on Sportscenter says "Listen, obviously it has to be a bucket list thing to go see Duke/Carolina. The question is, which building do I see it in?"

Scott "I am a Terp who hates Duke" Van Pelt IMMEDIATELY says "Cameron." Just quick and definitive, as anyone would say it. There isn't really anyone on Earth, UNC fan or Duke fan, who considers the Smith Center and Cameron to be an equal viewing experience, and that is fine.

But then Jay hems and haws, and looks uncomfortable for a second or two, and then says something along the lines of "Well, I suppose Cameron, but the Smith Center is great." Then he takes a moment and says something along the lines of "But if Carolina was still playing in Carmichael...! What a great building!"

That was it. Jay couldn't even just copy the Maryland grad and... well... every other sane basketball fan on Earth, and say "Well, Cameron is a really special place to watch that game" and let it go.

It kills me, because I've defended Jay for YEARS; I know his heart bleeds Duke blue. But come ON, man.

billyj

02-10-2011, 12:56 AM

Maybe Jay is trying to go undercover. We should lay it off and let him be. :)

dukediv2011

02-10-2011, 02:14 AM

Jay Bilas just said that Carimichael was the best place to experience a Duke-UNC game...

Why does he have to be so anti-Duke? It makes no sense to me. Even if you feel like that is true, why would you say that when Duke paid for your education and provided you with the opportunity to even be considered for the current job that you have?

I am almost to the point where I will disregard everything he says (like I do with Hubert Davis and Doug Gottlieb).

Duke84

02-10-2011, 02:29 AM

I heard the Bilas/Davis exchange, but honestly I don't hang on every word. Maybe he meant that Carmichael was a better game environment than the Dean Dome - which it was.

The lengths some posters go to insinuate Jay Bilas is "anti-Duke" never cease to amaze me. He insists (to his credit, as he is a sort of sports journalist) on being impartial to a fault - which means he sometimes says things that offend the delicate sensibilities here. He is not Duke's shill, and I'm glad he's not.

Edouble

02-10-2011, 02:46 AM

It's actually sort of a slap in the face to both programs. The slap to Duke is obvious, while at the same time he's sort of insulting Carolina by saying they made a huge mistake with the erecting the Dean Dome.

I agree that he goes out of his way to prove he's no Duke homer. I've lightened up on him the past few years though... seems like he's taken it down a notch, but I could be wrong. I watched the local Raycom broadcast, so I didn't hear Jay's comments verbatim.

We all know the best place to watch any basketball game is Cameron Indoor Stadium!

4decadedukie

02-10-2011, 07:20 AM

It is:(
It kills me, because I've defended Jay for YEARS; I know his heart bleeds Duke blue. But come ON, man.

I would never question Jay's Duke loyalty due to his conclusions in matters of substance, where his experiences and expertise are critical to forming a valid opinion (this does NOT mean I would necessarily agree with his viewpoint, however). But, as I have stated earlier in this thread and in many other venues, I am CERTAIN that there is an undeniable pattern of Jay knowingly understating/diminishing "things Duke" to retain and enhance a perception of impartiality as a broadcast analyst/reporter. This is especially obvious, painful and egregious in "silly, minor" matters, such as this Cameron-Smith-Carmichael question, where his integrity would never be questioned were he simply to indicate that CIS was "a superb setting" for these always-contested Duke/UNC games.

Some may suggest that if Jay feels this way, he certainly is entitled to express his opinion – and that is absolutely correct. However, the remainder of us (his Duke alumni peers, many of whom have records-of-achievement that equal his, although in other careers fields), are also free to highlight the aforementioned pattern and to draw conclusions based upon it. In addition, it seems logical to me that a noticeable anti-Duke predisposition is every bit as journalistically biased as would be evident pro-Duke fanaticism.

devildm

02-10-2011, 07:57 AM

...but when I heard the exchange from van Pelt and Jay, I kinda sounded like he agreed that Cameron was better, but did not want to come across as saying the Dean Dome was not a good place to watch the game. He did come out and say that Carmichael was better than the Dean dome, but I don't think he said that it was better than Cameron (then again, it was at the very end and the conversation was trailing off at that point).

dukediv2011

02-10-2011, 09:03 AM

I would never question Jay's Duke loyalty due to his conclusions in matters of substance, where his experiences and expertise are critical to forming a valid opinion (this does NOT mean I would necessarily agree with his viewpoint, however). But, as I have stated earlier in this thread and in many other venues, I am CERTAIN that there is an undeniable pattern of Jay knowingly understating/diminishing "things Duke" to retain and enhance a perception of impartiality as a broadcast analyst/reporter. This is especially obvious, painful and egregious in "silly, minor" matters, such as this Cameron-Smith-Carmichael question, where his integrity would never be questioned were he simply to indicate that CIS was "a superb setting" for these always-contested Duke/UNC games.

Some may suggest that if Jay feels this way, he certainly is entitled to express his opinion – and that is absolutely correct. However, the remainder of us (his Duke alumni peers, many of whom have records-of-achievement that equal his, although in other careers fields), are also free to highlight the aforementioned pattern and to draw conclusions based upon it. In addition, it seems logical to me that a noticeable anti-Duke predisposition is every bit as journalistically biased as would be evident pro-Duke fanaticism.

+1!!

gumbomoop

02-10-2011, 10:01 AM

.... I am CERTAIN that there is an undeniable pattern of Jay knowingly understating/diminishing "things Duke" to retain and enhance a perception of impartiality as a broadcast analyst/reporter. This is especially obvious, painful and egregious in "silly, minor" matters, such as this Cameron-Smith-Carmichael question, where his integrity would never be questioned were he simply to indicate that CIS was "a superb setting" for these always-contested Duke/UNC games.

.... In addition, it seems logical to me that a noticeable anti-Duke predisposition is every bit as journalistically biased as would be evident pro-Duke fanaticism.

Excellent analysis here. It'c clear why 4dd chose to bold the "undeniable pattern" sentence, as it's substantively the most important.

But the rest of this merits some emphasis, as well. Jay has been adamant - repeat: vociferously adamant - in "refuting" the notion that, with Kyrie, Duke was becoming "unbeatable." He gets animated on this point, and overtly dismissive of, virtually sneering at, his colleagues who loosely make this point. [Indeed, he's successfully stifled his colleagues, who these days say "nearly unbeatable."] Jay's response to this is probably less a manifestation of his "impartiality overcompensation" than his admirable frankness in taking a "let's stick to the truth" approach.

Yet when it comes to the "silly, minor" matter of CIS/Carmichael, suddenly he gets sort of tentative, soft, unwilling to state the bloody obvious, which he could do quite easily, to wit: "You know, Carmichael is a tough place, especially when Duke's in town, but, really, Cameron is not to be believed." He could then go on to talk about how the students are right there next to the court, etc. But, as 4dd notes, it's painful to watch him - counter to his normal firm views - go gushy on an issue that calls for the simple and the straightforward.

I'm willing to accept this "journalistic bias" on Jay's part, as he's so solid on such a variety of issues. But for someone who makes his name, in part, as one who doesn't suffer foolish talk, he does have this odd, one-note silliness pattern.

diveonthefloor

02-10-2011, 10:12 AM

As a photographer for the Chronicle in the early 80s, I got to experience both arenas close up (Carmichael and Cameron), from the vantage point of the baseline.

Carmichael was a pretty nifty old arena, but Cameron has it beat hands down.
It's not really even that close.

I think Jay may be embellishing his old memories a little with those comments.
I was able to track down Jay's line from the 1983 and 1984 seasons....
At Carmichael he averaged 11.5 pts and 7.5 rebs
At Cameron vs UNC he averaged 4.5 pts and 4.5 rebs

Can't find what he did in 85 and 86 vs UNC.....but my memory tells me that he always played better at Carmichael than Cameron.

Dukeface88

02-10-2011, 12:14 PM

"Well, I suppose Cameron, but the Smith Center is great." Then he takes a moment and says something along the lines of "But if Carolina was still playing in Carmichael...! What a great building!"

So...he actually didn't say that Carmichael was better. Just that it was "great" and better than the Nose Dome. Maybe it came across differently on television (I watched on Raycom), but I don't really see what we're supposed to be ouraged about here.

El_Diablo

02-10-2011, 02:07 PM

So...he actually didn't say that Carmichael was better. Just that it was "great" and better than the Nose Dome. Maybe it came across differently on television (I watched on Raycom), but I don't really see what we're supposed to be ouraged about here.

The anchor asked Jay which venue (Duke or UNC) would be better for watching the rivalry game, and while Jay was still thinking about it, Van Pelt immediately jumped in with "Cameron." Then Jay said, "Yeah, you'd probably go to Cameron. But they're both great. If you could go to Carmichael (where they used to play it), that would be the place to go. That place was awesome."

Give me a break, Jay.

It's at the end of the video "Highlight of the Night." http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=310400150

77devil

02-10-2011, 02:59 PM

The anchor asked Jay which venue (Duke or UNC) would be better for watching the rivalry game, and while Jay was still thinking about it, Van Pelt immediately jumped in with "Cameron." Then Jay said, "Yeah, you'd probably go to Cameron. But they're both great. If you could go to Carmichael (where they used to play it), that would be the place to go. That place was awesome."

Give me a break, Jay.

It's at the end of the video "Highlight of the Night." http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=310400150

It's sad, and a little pathetic, that Jay tries so hard to appear impartial about Duke that he frequently over compensates. At some point, you just have to ignore him when the Blue Devils are the subject. In those instances, I simply tune him out or turn him off, otherwise he's one of best.

Orange&BlackSheep

02-10-2011, 03:07 PM

Lord Ash

02-10-2011, 03:19 PM

who have actually played and been beat on have a different perspective on being concussed than those of you sitting around and throwing stones at that athlete when he makes light of such a horrific injury? Feeling a bit petty and PC to me ...

Several of us actually ARE former Duke athletes who also happen to have a lot of experience with concussions and injuries.

swood1000

02-10-2011, 03:47 PM

Jay believes that unless he bends over backwards to avoid the appearance of partiality, people will assume that he is just delivering the Duke company line. Is he clearly wrong in that belief?

Orange&BlackSheep

02-10-2011, 04:31 PM

Several of us actually ARE former Duke athletes who also happen to have a lot of experience with concussions and injuries.

So are you, ex- or present athlete, agreeing with the demand for an apology for making light of Nolan's concussion a year after it happened?

Lord Ash

02-10-2011, 05:20 PM

So are you, ex- or present athlete, agreeing with the demand for an apology for making light of Nolan's concussion a year after it happened?

I think it was an incredibly insensitive thing for him to do, and I was a bit stunned by it. I am sure Nolan doesn't know about it and probably doesn't care, but I thought it was a bit shocking for a broadcaster to engage in that sort of behavior in a sport like basketball and regarding an incident with results like that.

You know, for a while I was one of the agents for a large number of NHL players, including Darius Kasparitis, a SUPER tough and aggressive player in the NHL. I remember talking with him about his infamous hit on Eric Lindros, and I remember the glee with which Kaspar spoke about it. It bothered me on SUCH an elemental, emotional level... I simply cannot go along with any sort of happiness or glee or joking about a player suffering any sort of serious injury, and I absolutely believe it is out of place for a broadcaster. Sorry.

Orange&BlackSheep

02-10-2011, 06:19 PM

I think it was an incredibly insensitive thing for him to do, and I was a bit stunned by it. I am sure Nolan doesn't know about it and probably doesn't care, but I thought it was a bit shocking for a broadcaster to engage in that sort of behavior in a sport like basketball and regarding an incident with results like that.

You know, for a while I was one of the agents for a large number of NHL players, including Darius Kasparitis, a SUPER tough and aggressive player in the NHL. I remember talking with him about his infamous hit on Eric Lindros, and I remember the glee with which Kaspar spoke about it. It bothered me on SUCH an elemental, emotional level... I simply cannot go along with any sort of happiness or glee or joking about a player suffering any sort of serious injury, and I absolutely believe it is out of place for a broadcaster. Sorry.

No need to apologize ... some people laugh at things like this that happen to themselves and others (after everyone is OK) ... others are more emotionally connected to others' feelings that they can't see humor in it. I personally don't see the funny in it like Jay does, but I just give him some rope given his different relationship to basketball and the Duke program than I have.

(Though I think your reference of Lindros in this case -- while very interesting and telling about Kasparitis --does not work that well since that hit was far more physically damaging to EL than what happened to Nolan.)

Dukeface88

02-10-2011, 06:29 PM

Jay believes that unless he bends over backwards to avoid the appearance of partiality, people will assume that he is just delivering the Duke company line. Is he clearly wrong in that belief?

No.

I had a Maryland fan tell me last week that Bilas "spews Duke blue". I too shocked to come up with a response.

weezie

02-10-2011, 06:42 PM

Oh lordy. Jay must think we all have a crush on him (even though I do ;) ) for all the time we spend dreamily mooning over him.....:cool:

BleedsP287

02-10-2011, 06:49 PM

Jay is a professional, I wholeheartedly agree. He is probably the most liked out of all major college basketball analysts out there. UNC fans love him. UK fans love him. KU fans love him. If you go and visit pretty much any other team's message board out there you'll see quickly that Jay is pretty much universally adored.

It is only on Duke message boards where there is a pretty big divide on how fans see him. I think he is an incredibly intelligent and insightful analyst. I also think that he sometimes takes the side against Duke at an attempt to appear unbiased. I'm sure in his heart of hearts his favorite team is Duke, just as I believe G-man's is. But if you listen to G-man call a Duke game, he's stays neutral and is engaging. Do you honestly feel that way when Jay calls a Duke game? I sometimes find myself scratching my head at the things he points out that puts Duke in a negative light. It feels very purposeful. I like Jay and I feel that he brings a lot to the table as an analyst. I also feel that he sometimes stretches a bit to make himself appear unbiased. Just my opinion.

Very well stated and I agree. I also like Jay a lot. But he is a bit of an anti-homer. He is very insightful and fun to watch, but my view is he does go out of his way to avoid a pro-Duke stance. If in fact he is pro-Duke, he hides it more than he needs to, and more than I'd prefer. Let your true colors show through a little Jay, all the other journalists are doing it!