PDA

View Full Version : Sanctimonious Floppery



swood1000
01-25-2011, 02:21 PM
A visit to the message board on Inside Carolina is quite an experience – reminding one of what a visit to Bedlam hospital in England must have been like prior to the introduction of antipsychotic medications. For those who have not visited, let me use just one example to demonstrate the tenor of the discourse found there.

A complaint about “flopping” by Duke players is heard incessantly, almost mantra-like. Let’s start with a definition of a “flop” (from Wikipedia): “a pejorative term that refers to a defensive player intentionally falling backward to the floor upon physical contact with an offensive player.” Again and again contributors to Inside Carolina are heard bewailing the pervasive flopping by Duke players, and complaining bitterly about what an ordeal it is that their players must be exposed to such odious behavior. Those who have never watched Carolina basketball may not appreciate the irony here, nor appreciate just how much Thorazine will likely be needed in order to bring equilibrium to Inside Carolina. First, take a look at this 40 second clip, which shows three garden-variety flops by Carolina in the first 11 minutes of their recent game against Clemson. (Sorry about the lack of editing refinement but I really do have other things to do. I realize that spending any time on this at all proves conclusively that I have way too much free time on my hands, but even so there are limits.)

(If you get a message from YouTube that “An error occurred, please try again later” it means that you have to adjust your browser to accept cookies.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Eel1pSInU

Now, what might we expect to hear in response to this? That these were not really flops? Come now. That they were done on the initiative of the players and were not coached? Well, in defense of this, just after the second flop the camera turned to Coach Roy, who looks as if he might be thinking “Dadgummit, I’m so disappointed in Watts for resorting to a flop. That’s going to be 20 up and backs for him. I won’t stand for that!” Nevertheless, it must be acknowledged that either these flops were coached or the players are not required to pay attention to the coaching staff. We’ll charitably assume the former. Might we hear that these examples pale in comparison to an oft-cited flop by Greg Paulus when he was not even touched by the opposing player? Well now, isn’t this an assertion that a lack of artfulness is the principal transgression, and that the more obvious the flop, the more condemnation it deserves? It would seem that under this view flops that the officials find convincing should be condemned the least but our complainers, unaccountably, do not seem to adhere to this approach. Perhaps we will hear that this clip shows only three flops and that Duke commits many, many more than Carolina does. This would be an acknowledgment that flopping by Carolina players is indeed an organized and premeditated activity, making the situation equivalent to that of a man who admits to robbing one bank but who primly claims moral superiority over another man who he alleges has robbed two banks. If Carolina has fewer flops it must be because they are passing up some flopping opportunities; no doubt they are passing up the ones that would be, well, unseemly. Such high-mindedness is an inspiration to us all.

In the final analysis, what is to be concluded with respect to such a complaint? Macbeth may have put it best: “…it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

Kimist
01-25-2011, 02:39 PM
One only has to watch some of the play of HansTravel to see the master of flopmanship at work.

Plan A: How many steps do I get?? (Ask Bob Knight for an example!)

Plan B: I'll just knock you over, wait for the whistle, and shoot some more free throws. (Strange how the ever-present "shoot more FT's than opponent" argument suddenly went silent in the land of the smurfs?)

Plan C: When an opposing player gets nearby, do the flop. (Extra credit for windmill arms enhancement!)

Am I close????

k

wilko
01-25-2011, 02:47 PM
I wish I could find ACTUAL proof or a link...

But my rusty memory seems to recall that such a defensive was once described as "The Carolina Flop" by one Billy Cunningham in some broadcast he did once upon a time.

Does that resonate at all with anyone else?

wilson
01-25-2011, 02:52 PM
Thank you for posting this.
Is the practice of coaching charges perhaps an instance of zeroing in on a technicality? Yes.
Is it the slightest bit unsavory? Probably.
Does it nevertheless require keen knowledge of the rules and a great deal of physical precision? Absolutely.
Is Duke the only place where this occurs? Of course not.
Are we going to apologize because our players have over the years possessed enough "keen knowledge of the rules" and "physical precision" (see above) to have acquired a certain reputation for taking advantage of this particular aspect of the game? Never.

CameronBlue
01-25-2011, 03:01 PM
I wish I could find ACTUAL proof or a link...

But my rusty memory seems to recall that such a defensive was once described as "The Carolina Flop" by one Billy Cunningham in some broadcast he did once upon a time.

Does that resonate at all with anyone else?

Don't recall this being attributed to Cunningham but long-time observers understand the irony of any UNC fan accusing a rival team of flopping. John Kuester absolutely made a living of it and was known as "The Flounder" in his day and Dick Grubar was often called a term referring to a flaccid body part that rhymes with "limerick."

94duke
01-25-2011, 03:02 PM
Hansblahblah flop...
(Wish I had found a better clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQGPVL5wCms

elvis14
01-25-2011, 04:07 PM
IC is pitiful, always. Clemson will never get a fair game called in the Dean Dump, ever. After HansFlopper, UNC fans are no longer allowed to complain about officiating in any way shape or form, ever.

epoulsen
01-25-2011, 04:12 PM
I do not mean to take away from your post, as it is most amusing but it seems that more and more people are resorting to the "terrible refs" school of thought when talking about a game they just lost to Duke. If you ask my boss at work about ANY Duke game in the last twenty years the refs working it were terrible. The State game the other night... "the refs lost it for us". Not their poor shooting, or their star player still rehabilitating, not turn overs..... The refs. When I make the point that we had three players in foul trouble and they had one by the end of the game he makes the "point" that the calls we get are at game changing moments, ie State may be on a 5-0, driving to the basket to make it a 7-0 run and get a charge call (though they usually don't call it a charge, rather "...and then Duke flops"), completely changing the momentum. Where as the calls against us are when we are already up by 11 or more so they don't matter; anyone with half a brain could tell you the quick fix to that scenario would be to not go down by 11 so early but thats not the point.

I get so tired of people blaming the refs, it's their own petty way of trying to negate or invalidate a good win with a "point" that is entirely subjective. I see this becoming a bigger trend every day, people opting for the easy bailout rather than concede an argument or admit that maybe their team just isn't as good. I'm all out of ideas, I've appealed to their logic and they respond "spoken like a true Dukie", any suggestions? Again, fantastic post, I really enjoyed the music. "The eye in the sky don't lie" as my coach used to say. I wonder what they'll think of to deny this?

elvis14
01-25-2011, 04:27 PM
I do not mean to take away from your post, as it is most amusing but it seems that more and more people are resorting to the "terrible refs" school of thought when talking about a game they just lost to Duke.


Both in person or online I just say to people "Really, the 'Duke gets all the calls' myth? That's the best you can do? You can't come up with anything better than that? COME ON MAN!"

I have friends that are good NC State fans and knowledgeable, level-headed basketball fans. When I'm at a State game, however, they seem to be in the minority. Every single call against State gets booed loudly. My friends hate it more than I do!

-jk
01-25-2011, 05:51 PM
I think the real answer is "And the Kennedy conspiracy was never uncovered" or perhaps "The moon landings were faked". Maybe both. Maybe "Fluoridated water" or "Area 54". The list goes on. "Freemasons" and "Trilateral commission". So many to choose from.

But selection bias - in terms of picking which calls to question - will leave every fan base (including ours) thinking the refs were out to get them. It's human nature. Just look at how many teams' boosters hate Karl Hess or Jim Burr. Or go back to Lenny Wirtz or Dick Paparo. Or even farther back to our very own Lou Bello.

But for all the reasons that the other myths are for people wearing tinfoil hats, we really shouldn't believe the myth that refs are out to get us. They are human. They do make mistakes. But blaming them for our own shortcomings really doesn't get us anywhere, other than sounding whiny (at best) or just irrational.

-jk

Indoor66
01-25-2011, 05:56 PM
I think the real answer is "And the Kennedy conspiracy was never uncovered" or perhaps "The moon landings were faked". Maybe both. Maybe "Fluoridated water" or "Area 54". The list goes on. "Freemasons" and "Trilateral commission". So many to choose from.

But selection bias - in terms of picking which calls to question - will leave every fan base (including ours) thinking the refs were out to get them. It's human nature. Just look at how many teams' boosters hate Karl Hess or Jim Burr. Or go back to Lenny Wirtz or Dick Paparo. Or even farther back to our very own Lou Bello.

But for all the reasons that the other myths are for people wearing tinfoil hats, we really shouldn't believe the myth that refs are out to get us. They are human. They do make mistakes. But blaming them for our own shortcomings really doesn't get us anywhere, other than sounding whiny (at best) or just irrational.

-jk

Spoken like an adult. I agree with you. This discussion ranks up with Duke Hate as an inane topic of a childish nature.

swood1000
01-25-2011, 07:54 PM
I'm all out of ideas, I've appealed to their logic and they respond "spoken like a true Dukie", any suggestions?

My experience has been that to the extent my opponent’s observations are emotionally based (we are all prone to this, some people more than others) I can win all the battles through logical refutation but my opponent still will not concede the war. You might try the following. (By the way, how secure is your job?) You and your boss watch the NC State game again, together with an agreed upon impartial third party who is to decide each question. That game is still available on http://espn.go.com/espn3/ and you can access it if you subscribe to Time-Warner or one of the other listed cable companies (but you probably have to do this within 30 days of the game). A high-def playback capability would be a plus, but now that I think of it the resolution on ESPN3 leaves a little to be desired. You would be looking for actions/inactions that somehow escaped his notice. You would probably want to agree with him in advance as to what the rules of engagement were going to be. Each individual call could be assigned an “importance” rating (maybe 1 to 3). You could do carryout (including a couple of bottles of wine), eat during the game, and the loser pays the bill. If he declines your offer, then you can make as much out of that as you are able.

CDu
01-25-2011, 08:07 PM
I think the real answer is "And the Kennedy conspiracy was never uncovered" or perhaps "The moon landings were faked". Maybe both. Maybe "Fluoridated water" or "Area 54". The list goes on. "Freemasons" and "Trilateral commission". So many to choose from.

But selection bias - in terms of picking which calls to question - will leave every fan base (including ours) thinking the refs were out to get them. It's human nature. Just look at how many teams' boosters hate Karl Hess or Jim Burr. Or go back to Lenny Wirtz or Dick Paparo. Or even farther back to our very own Lou Bello.

But for all the reasons that the other myths are for people wearing tinfoil hats, we really shouldn't believe the myth that refs are out to get us. They are human. They do make mistakes. But blaming them for our own shortcomings really doesn't get us anywhere, other than sounding whiny (at best) or just irrational.

-jk

Dead on. Just check out our in-game chats and game/post-game threads during losses and you'll see some complaints about the officiating. Every losing team will have fans who complain about the officiating. Thankfully, we just win so much that the other team's fans are more often than not the ones that complain.

Good teams generally get more calls, because the weaker team usually needs to commit more fouls both from their quality of play and the end-of-game score situation. So since we're good, we have tended to commit fewer fouls. Also, all things equal, home teams get more calls (at least according to a recent article I read in either SI or ESPN). Beyond that, I don't think there's any conspiracy behind us "getting more calls."