Charting Duke @ Wake Forest

[pfrduke]

One lineup - Thornton-Smith-Singler-Mason-Kelly - was quite effective, outscoring Wake 19-6. The rest of the performance was a bit flat, outscoring Wake by just 11, with 6 of the other 18 lineups losing to Wake (including the starting lineup). These numbers reflect the value of Thornton's performance - he earned those career high minutes - and the ineffectiveness of Andre Dawkins, whose lackadaisical close-out on Gary Clark's wiiiiiiiiide open three earned him both his -3 and his spot on the pine for the bulk of the second half.

Individuals
Tyler Thornton 52-27 (+25)
Nolan Smith 77-54(+23)
Kyle Singler 64-41 (+23)
Ryan Kelly 71-50 (+21)
Seth Curry 44-30 (+14)
Mason Plumlee 39-27 (+12)
Miles Plumlee 42-35 (+7)
Josh Hairston 7-9 (-2)
Andre Dawkins 19-22 (-3)

Per 40 Minutes
Tyler Thornton +45.5
Kyle Singler +28.8
Ryan Kelly +27.1
Seth Curry +26.7
Nolan Smith +24.9
Mason Plumlee +21.8
Miles Plumlee +14.7
Andre Dawkins -9.2
Josh Hairston -26.7

Lineups (Score, times used, margin)
Thornton-Smith-Singler-Mason-Kelly (19-6, x3, +13)
Thornton-Smith-Curry-Kelly-Miles (12-7, x1, +5)
Smith-Curry-Dawkins-Singler-Miles (4-0, x1, +4)
Thornton-Smith-Singler-Kelly-Miles (5-2, x1, +3)
Smith-Curry-Singler-Kelly-Miles (12-10, x1, +2)
Thornton-Smith-Curry-Singler-Mason (4-2, x2, +2)
Smith-Curry-Singler-Mason-Kelly (2-0, x1, +2)
Thornton-Smith-Curry-Singler-Kelly (2-0, x1, +2)
Thornton-Curry-Singler-Hairston-Miles (2-0, x1, +2)
Thornton-Curry-Singler-Mason-Kelly (1-0, x1, +1)
Thornton-Smith-Curry-Mason-Kelly (2-2, x1, 0)
Smith-Curry-Dawkins-Singler-Kelly (0-0, x1, 0)
Smith-Curry-Dawkins-Singler-Mason (0-0, x1, 0)
Thornton-Smith-Dawkins-Kelly-Miles (2-3, x1, -1)
Smith-Curry-Dawkins-Kelly-Miles (0-1, x1, -1)
Thornton-Curry-Hairston-Kelly-Miles (3-5, x1, -2)
Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Hairston-Miles (2-4, x1, -2)
Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Mason-Kelly (11-14, x2, -3)
Smith-Curry-Singler-Mason-Miles (0-3, x1, -3)

[Neals384]

Tyler's numbers the last 2 games are just off the charts! +47 and +45 per 40 minutes!

[jv001]

Tyler's numbers the last 2 games are just off the charts! +47 and +45 per 40 minutes!

that defense wins games. Tyler and Nolan are our only good on the ball defenders. Seth is adequate and Andre is a little below average. This is another part of Kyrie's game that we really miss. Go Duke!

[CrazieDUMB]

The Thornton Effect is pretty interesting. I feel there's a lot of talk about who's going to be our third scorer on a given night between Nolan and Kyle, but with Tyler out there I think we get a lot of points from our defense. His steals lead fast breaks, and the points we score with him out there are that much more valuable when the defense is amped up. He's earning some PT!

[Indoor66]

The Thornton Effect is pretty interesting. I feel there's a lot of talk about who's going to be our third scorer on a given night between Nolan and Kyle, but with Tyler out there I think we get a lot of points from our defense. His steals lead fast breaks, and the points we score with him out there are that much more valuable when the defense is amped up. He's earning some PT!

I thought the recruiting gurus on the board had listed him as a four year practice player. What happened?

[Jderf]

I thought the recruiting gurus on the board had listed him as a four year practice player. What happened?

In the general board's defense, I think there were a lot of people who argued that Tyler would be making significant contributions in his freshman year (I was not one of them). Nonetheless, I think even they would have to admit that they are pleasantly surprised with what he has shown so far.

[Dukeface88]

In the general board's defense, I think there were a lot of people who argued that Tyler would be making significant contributions in his freshman year (I was not one of them). Nonetheless, I think even they would have to admit that they are pleasantly surprised with what he has shown so far.

Also in this board's defense, I think that the tenor of the doubters about Thornton (and I will admit to having been one of them, although I'm certainly no guru) was less "four year practice player" and more "backup who might start as an upperclassman". I think we all knew he was going to be a good defender, but some of us were skeptical that he would be good enough to offset his somewhat limited offense(to date - I'm not making predictions here), espescially early on, given how difficult it is to learn K's defense. This may have been influenced by juxtaposition to Kyrie, which is not really fair to either of them.

So far, I'm pretty pleased we were wrong, although I do still think Nolan is a better option at ball-handler.

[Kedsy]

His steals lead fast breaks, and the points we score with him out there are that much more valuable when the defense is amped up.

Actually, against Wake the 17 turnovers we forced only led to 9 points-off-turnovers, so while I can't say specifically about Tyler's steals, the turnovers we forced didn't lead to so many fast break points.

For comparison purposes, turnovers forced and points-off for our last six games:

Wake: 17 tof; 9 p-o-t (0.529)
NCSU: 9 tof; 13 p-o-t (1.444)
UVa: 15 tof; 9 p-o-t (0.600)
Fla St: 15 tof; 19 p-o-t (1.267)
Md: 16 tof; 12 p-o-t (0.750)
UAB: 14 tof; 23 p-o-t (1.643)
Miami: 12 tof; 2 p-o-t (0.167)

Other than the Miami game, Wake was our worst conversion of turnovers into points since the ACC season began. This is not to take away from Tyler's performance, but just to say I'm not sure you're right about his steals leading to fast break points.

[ice-9]

Also in this board's defense, I think that the tenor of the doubters about Thornton (and I will admit to having been one of them, although I'm certainly no guru) was less "four year practice player" and more "backup who might start as an upperclassman". I think we all knew he was going to be a good defender, but some of us were skeptical that he would be good enough to offset his somewhat limited offense(to date - I'm not making predictions here), espescially early on, given how difficult it is to learn K's defense. This may have been influenced by juxtaposition to Kyrie, which is not really fair to either of them.

So far, I'm pretty pleased we were wrong, although I do still think Nolan is a better option at ball-handler.


Also to be fair, nobody saw Kyrie's injury coming. If he was healthy I think it would be reasonable to say that Tyler would likely play limited minutes. No knock onTyler; the kid can clearly contribute.