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cameroncrazy3104
01-23-2011, 09:52 PM
I'm not going to lie before the Wake game I got very angry with Ryan when he seemed to continuously shoot and miss 3s. Now they he has proved to me he can shoot and make them, I have a new found trust.

With his shooting in the picture, if Seth, Dre, Nolan, and or Kyle start shooting well that is an extremely dangerous offense. I don't have many knocks on Ryan. He is an incredibly smart player, he seems to at least appear to hustle. If I had to choose something It would be his inability to post someone up. But with an ability to play away from the basket it creates match-up problems and more importantly offensive rebound opportunities because it draws an opposing bigs away from the basket and frees up space for guys like Mason and Miles.

If Kyrie comes back I see more drives and dishes coming Ryan's way.

I can only hope this wasn't a one time occurrence.

jimsumner
01-23-2011, 09:58 PM
I'm not going to lie before the Wake game I got very angry with Ryan when he seemed to continuously shoot and miss 3s. Now they he has proved to me he can shoot and make them, I have a new found trust.

With his shooting in the picture, if Seth, Dre, Nolan, and or Kyle start shooting well that is an extremely dangerous offense. I don't have many knocks on Ryan. He is an incredibly smart player, he seems to at least appear to hustle. If I had to choose something It would be his inability to post someone up. But with an ability to play away from the basket it creates match-up problems and more importantly offensive rebound opportunities because it draws an opposing bigs away from the basket and frees up space for guys like Mason and Miles.

If Kyrie comes back I see more drives and dishes coming Ryan's way.

I can only hope this wasn't a one time occurrence.

Well, he was 4-4, 2-2 on 3s, against State. So, that's a trend.

Bob Green
01-23-2011, 10:04 PM
In the last three games, Kelly is 14-17 from the field including 6-6 on 3-pointers. I agree with Jim, it's a trend.

dukelifer
01-23-2011, 10:11 PM
I'm not going to lie before the Wake game I got very angry with Ryan when he seemed to continuously shoot and miss 3s. Now they he has proved to me he can shoot and make them, I have a new found trust.

With his shooting in the picture, if Seth, Dre, Nolan, and or Kyle start shooting well that is an extremely dangerous offense. I don't have many knocks on Ryan. He is an incredibly smart player, he seems to at least appear to hustle. If I had to choose something It would be his inability to post someone up. But with an ability to play away from the basket it creates match-up problems and more importantly offensive rebound opportunities because it draws an opposing bigs away from the basket and frees up space for guys like Mason and Miles.

If Kyrie comes back I see more drives and dishes coming Ryan's way.

I can only hope this wasn't a one time occurrence.

His shot seems to have a bit more arc these days and he is more confident. He can make that shot - and has the McDonald's three point shooting contest trophy on his shelf to show it is no fluke. The key for Ryan is believing in his abilities. He is rounding into a solid ACC player and next year could be a force.

Atldukie79
01-23-2011, 10:11 PM
Does anyone else see similarities between Kelly and Ferry?

Similar height, body build. Face up shooters, smart, good passers, can handle.

Ferry had more of an inside game. He was also more important to his team as a sophmore and had more minutes and touches than Kelly.

Clearly Ferry was an all time great at Duke and Kelly is no where near that....yet:)
Any other Duke players he resembles?

billyj
01-23-2011, 10:22 PM
It's all about consistency. We've looking for the 3rd scorer since Kyrie went out. If Kelly can deliver, it will be great. He needs to stay consistent, it will be difficult. He's not quite there yet.

KyDevilinIL
01-23-2011, 10:30 PM
Their games don't exactly match, but I get a bit of a Lee Melchionni vibe from Ryan – at least compared to Melchionni's stronger stretches as an upperclassman. Smart, willing to do whatever needs to be done and boasting a solid shooting stroke when warm.

Ryan's overall skill set is better at this point, but Lee is among my favorite Blue Devil role players, so it's a compliment, I hope.

Gewebe14
01-23-2011, 10:37 PM
Also there is the fact that hes been shooting close to 50% from 3 for basically the entire year

cameroncrazy3104
01-23-2011, 10:51 PM
Also there is the fact that hes been shooting close to 50% from 3 for basically the entire year

He shot well at the beginning of the season from 3 but he went on a stretch starting with Elon ending with Virginia that he was 2-16.

Against Maryland he went 0-4.

He has the capability to shoot the 3 but he seems to be streaky

OZZIE4DUKE
01-23-2011, 10:53 PM
Wojo said the coaches were waiting for Ryan to have a "breakout" game. I think he finally had one!:cool:

OldPhiKap
01-23-2011, 11:20 PM
Does anyone else see similarities between Kelly and Ferry?

Similar height, body build. Face up shooters, smart, good passers, can handle.

Ferry had more of an inside game. He was also more important to his team as a sophmore and had more minutes and touches than Kelly.

Clearly Ferry was an all time great at Duke and Kelly is no where near that....yet:)
Any other Duke players he resembles?

I'm glad someone brought up Ferry, who seems to be forgotten in a lot of discussions. He was one of the first big men in college who could hit the outside shot on a consistent basis -- the forerunner of Laettner and a whole host of players nationwide.

Danny had more court savvy than Ryan -- son of a legendary coach, after all -- but Ryan has many of the same talents. Ryan has All-conference potential before all is said and done, and can be a real difference maker this season.

toooskies
01-23-2011, 11:37 PM
There will naturally be streaks and slumps in anyone's shooting. Surely no one saw Nolan start 0-6 in the Wake game and say to themselves, "We can't trust this guy."

Also note that Kelly, even in the midst of his slump, never had a lower overall 3-point percentage than Nolan. He's 10% higher than Nolan now from beyond the arc. Anyone can have bad shooting nights, it's just that Ryan doesn't get enough shots for them to even out in one night.

Calling RK as an emerging team threat is way off base in my opinion, though. He likely won't have another game this season where he takes six shots and doesn't miss any, regardless of how well he plays. He didn't demonstrate a new aspect of his game, so this feels like a one-time blip on the statistical radar.

But it does make it necessary for teams to guard him out there, because he's going to take that shot, and make it a good fraction of the time.

gam7
01-24-2011, 01:38 AM
Ryan continues to dominate the team in terms of number of distinct threads for a single player. :)

Saratoga2
01-24-2011, 07:47 AM
Does anyone else see similarities between Kelly and Ferry?

Similar height, body build. Face up shooters, smart, good passers, can handle.

Ferry had more of an inside game. He was also more important to his team as a sophmore and had more minutes and touches than Kelly.

Clearly Ferry was an all time great at Duke and Kelly is no where near that....yet:)
Any other Duke players he resembles?

Remnds me of Kevin Pottsnagle of WV who played his last year in either 2004 or 2005. Not the fastest guy, but big and savvy with a heck of an outside shot, although a lot of his shots also came from mid range.

theAlaskanBear
01-24-2011, 08:14 AM
Remnds me of Kevin Pottsnagle of WV who played his last year in either 2004 or 2005. Not the fastest guy, but big and savvy with a heck of an outside shot, although a lot of his shots also came from mid range.

Pittsnogle. Great name eh? I compared the two players, and at this point in his career Pittsnogle was a better, more versatile scorer. First of all he is much bigger than Ryan, in bulk/weight, and about 50% of his scoring came from 3-pointers. However, Kevin only averaged 10 points a game per season until a breakout SR year. Kelly can match that this year if improved scoring in the second half. Right now though a lower % of his points comes from 3-point shots -- only 45/127, and he gets fewer shot attempts per game because of his preeminent teammates.

JBDuke
01-24-2011, 08:22 AM
Does anyone else see similarities between Kelly and Ferry?

Similar height, body build. Face up shooters, smart, good passers, can handle.

Ferry had more of an inside game. He was also more important to his team as a sophmore and had more minutes and touches than Kelly.

Clearly Ferry was an all time great at Duke and Kelly is no where near that....yet:)
Any other Duke players he resembles?

I don't see a lot of similarity yet, other than their ability to drop the outside shot. Maybe more to freshman Danny than other years. Freshman Danny was asked to play in the post more, contributing interior defense and rebounding, and getting most of his points on putbacks. He, like Ryan this year, was typically the 4th option on offense. (Ferry was behind Dawkins, Alarie, and Henderson; Ryan behind Kyle, Nolan, and Seth or Andre). There was no 3-point line Ferry's freshman year, so even though he was capable of hitting that shot, with the team's need for him to be inside and the lack of incentive to drift out further kept him from showing it often.

Danny came in with a more physically mature body than Ryan, with a more complete skill set, and with quicker instincts. I love that Ryan seems to know where to be and what to do in most circumstances, but sometimes he seems to be doing it in slow motion. Quicker post men can put on a move and get by him, because while Ryan knows where he needs to be, he doesn't always get there in time.

And Danny, of course, took off his sophomore year, leading the team in points, rebounds, and assists, and moved up into the stratosphere for his junior and senior years. Ryan's situation is a lot different. Danny's team needed him to take that leap, due to the loss of the '86 seniors. Ryan won't need to do that, given what we expect to be returning and what we've got coming next year.

Having said all that, Ryan is a big man who can play effectively in the post (especially on D), has good basketball instincts, and can make the perimeter shot, so there is some resemblance to Ferry. Perhaps a better comparison might be Nick Horvath in his first couple of years, before he bulked up and stayed in the lane all the time. However, I think Ryan has already made a greater impact on this team than Nick did those first two years, so he's probably ahead of Nick in that regard.

Really, Ryan is just unique. I'm really enjoying watching him play right now, and I hope he can sustain it. (Well, it would be a little much to ask to continue the perfect shooting from the floor...)

airowe
01-24-2011, 08:56 AM
It's great to see a guy who works as hard as Ryan have everything go right for him two games in a row. Everything.

While we as fans have a "new" trust in Ryan, clearly he, his teammates, and his coaches have had trust in him. I don't think the Ryan of last year would have the confidence to fire up a 3-pointer to start the NC State game, but the Ryan of this year will, even after an 0-4 night in the previous game.

When Coach K talks about this team developing their egos, I think we're starting to see one materialize before our eyes.

killerleft
01-24-2011, 09:07 AM
Does anyone else see similarities between Kelly and Ferry?

Similar height, body build. Face up shooters, smart, good passers, can handle.

Ferry had more of an inside game. He was also more important to his team as a sophmore and had more minutes and touches than Kelly.

Clearly Ferry was an all time great at Duke and Kelly is no where near that....yet:)
Any other Duke players he resembles?

I'm with you on this. Obviously Ryan is not at the level of Ferry, but Ryan's improvement since his freshman year is wonderful to behold. By his senior year we may be riding on Ryan's Express (a movie reference showing my age).

Indoor66
01-24-2011, 10:08 AM
I'm with you on this. Obviously Ryan is not at the level of Ferry, but Ryan's improvement since his freshman year is wonderful to behold. By his senior year we may be riding on Ryan's Express (a movie reference showing my age).

Maybe so, but it is Von Ryan's Express (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059885/). A great Sinatra film.

CDu
01-24-2011, 10:45 AM
There will naturally be streaks and slumps in anyone's shooting. Surely no one saw Nolan start 0-6 in the Wake game and say to themselves, "We can't trust this guy."

Also note that Kelly, even in the midst of his slump, never had a lower overall 3-point percentage than Nolan. He's 10% higher than Nolan now from beyond the arc. Anyone can have bad shooting nights, it's just that Ryan doesn't get enough shots for them to even out in one night.

Calling RK as an emerging team threat is way off base in my opinion, though. He likely won't have another game this season where he takes six shots and doesn't miss any, regardless of how well he plays. He didn't demonstrate a new aspect of his game, so this feels like a one-time blip on the statistical radar.

But it does make it necessary for teams to guard him out there, because he's going to take that shot, and make it a good fraction of the time.

Agreed. It's interesting to look at Kelly's performances against Wake and Maryland. One could argue that the main difference between the two games is that the open shots he took against Wake went in (4-4 on 3s) while the open shots he took against Maryland didn't (0-4 on 3s). So at least in terms of offense, I'm not sure I see a huge difference.

Now, he did more other stuff (a couple of offensive rebounds, a couple of assists, a couple of steals). But in both games, he was more a secondary player who was taking what the defense gave him. In one game, the shots went down at an extremely poor rate. In the other, the shots went down at an extremely high rate.

Kelly is arguably the same player he was two weeks ago. He's a really good shooter who is a bit streaky (like anyone). He just hasn't a high-volume shooter so a bad (or good) game gets magnified. People shouldn't have ever given up on his shooting when he slumped the past few weeks, and they shouldn't overreact the other way to an anomalous performance this weekend at the other extreme.

epoulsen
01-24-2011, 11:08 AM
My father in law and I went to the WFU game and before hand he mentioned the only player on Duke he wouldn't cheer for (he's a clemson fan who moonlights as a Dukie) is Ryan. Partly because he "can't shoot but insists on doing so" and "he went to Ravenscroft" (his daugher, aka my wife, and I went to Cardinal Gibbons High School and Ravenscroft is our rival). I told him Ryan had a great game at State and I'm interested in seeing if he continues his great play against WFU, and if he would just watch Ryan in person maybe he'd change his mind. By the end of the game he was thrilled with Ryan, as he could shoot from where ever he wanted and would make it, he played GREAT defense and hustled non stop. I see him being far more than just a role player, I see him being a player... period. I hope that was his break out game, we could use all three of our big men firing on all cylinders.

thenameisbond
01-24-2011, 11:24 AM
This was the game I've been waiting for from Ryan. It should help boost his confidence and hopefully is the harbinger of more great performances to come.

dukeimac
01-24-2011, 11:29 AM
I am excited for Kelly and Duke in the way he has played the last 2 games. But I hesitate because we don't know if he has the staying power.

The last 2 games are his highlights, but prior to these two games things were not so good for him.

Prior to his last 2 games, he was averaging 16 minutes of playing time. He was 9 for 28 from 3 point land or 32%. Not a great stat. He last two games he is 6 for 6 and is at 44% overall, a good stat overall. He had 5 games that went 1-1 from 3 point land but the rest were 1-2, 1-3, 0-1, 0-2, and 0-3. In 17 games he had 56 rebounds or about 3.3 rpg. in his last 2 games he had 6 & 8, which puts him at 7 rpg, much better. In his first 17 games he was 37 for 78 in shooting or about 47%, with his last 2 games he is at 53%, shooting 10 for 10.

With stats of 10 for 10 shooting and 6 for 6 from 3 point land it can really pad some stats. To gets stats to increase by just 1 percentage points takes good work so to see his stats jump by 6 percentage points are very good.

In the Elon game he was 4-8 shooting with 1-3 from 3 point land with 13 points. First game this year he was in double figures. The UNC Greensboro game, right after Elon, he was 4-10 shooting and 0-3 for 3 point land. His stats didn't knock my socks off.

But his last 2 games he has come out of the woodwork and it playing great. Duke has needed someone like him to step up and he has. The question is, does he have the staying power. I do like that Duke is playing BC and St. John's. They should be good games to improve and build on that self confidence.

I'm concerned as to what happens to him if he has another 4-8 shooting game, 1-3 for 3 point land. Where does his self confidence go? I'm hoping he will build on his game and confidence that one game here or there doesn't set him back but for some it does.

killerleft
01-24-2011, 12:33 PM
Maybe so, but it is Von Ryan's Express (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059885/). A great Sinatra film.

I know. But "Von" didn't seem to fit in.

jimsumner
01-24-2011, 02:18 PM
Ryan continues to dominate the team in terms of number of distinct threads for a single player. :)

I believe that's one of the criteria for eventual jersey retirement.

camion
01-24-2011, 03:42 PM
I know. But "Von" didn't seem to fit in.

You could go with Kelly's Heroes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly%27s_Heroes).

-bdbd
01-24-2011, 04:39 PM
I'm just hoping that he keeps his confidence and the momentum flowing.

Ryan has always struck me as a heady, "in the right place at thre right time" kind of player. I have always preferred that attitude and awareness over pure physical gifts -- though that isn't to say Ryan doesn't have many physical gifts too.

It sure is fun to see him succeed like this. I hope that he continues as a consistent, strong contributor along the lines of 12+ points and 5+ rebounds each night.

Ever since the Bulls dynasty of the early-90's I have quasi held to the mantra of a team's "stool" needing three legs to stand on. For Duke in the post KI stretch it seems to have become NS + KS + "whoever steps up today." That diversity is certainly hard for opponents to strategize against and defend. But Ryan certainly could become that consistent third leg...

Troublemaker
01-24-2011, 05:03 PM
He didn't demonstrate a new aspect of his game, so this feels like a one-time blip on the statistical radar.



But in both games, he was more a secondary player who was taking what the defense gave him. In one game, the shots went down at an extremely poor rate. In the other, the shots went down at an extremely high rate.

These are great points, guys. In the postgame presser, Coach K mentioned that he would like to see Ryan begin to shot-fake and drive to the basket more (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205081254 )

It's the logical next step for Ryan now that he's established his outside shot and is confident in it. Once he can use the threat of his shot to create offense for himself and for teammates, then we'll know he's become the third scorer.

I'm cautiously optimistic because Ryan has a lot of offensive gifts to be a scorer. Besides the outside shot, I think he has good hands, ball-handling ability, passing ability, vision and IQ to read a defense for opportunities, and poise. He's pretty close to the ideal prototype for a motion offense forward. The guy scored a LOT of points in high school and hopefully is on the verge of translating that scoring ability to college.

But yes, I believe in tempered, cautious optimism here, and that Ryan needs to expand his game beyond being a spot-up shooter because he seems to have the talent to do so. This fan will keep a close eye on him to see where this goes.

DukieInBrasil
01-24-2011, 08:06 PM
Also there is the fact that hes been shooting close to 50% from 3 for basically the entire year
While true, he had not hit more than one 3 in a game until the State game, and he made 2 in that one. Now he doubles that again vs. Wake. Maybe he'll 8 3s in the next one.

killerleft
01-24-2011, 08:13 PM
You could go with Kelly's Heroes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly%27s_Heroes).

Yeah, if I woulda thunk it:D Kelly's Heroes works great!

dukeimac
01-24-2011, 08:28 PM
Gewebe14
Also there is the fact that hes been shooting close to 50% from 3 for basically the entire year

Not true, up until the State game, he was 9 of 28 on 3's, that is about 32%.

Bob Green
In the last three games, Kelly is 14-17 from the field including 6-6 on 3-pointers. I agree with Jim, it's a trend.

Not a trend if you include the last 3 games considering the last two games, he is 6-6 on 3's and 10-10 over all, thus the game before state he was 4-7 shooting and 0-0 on 3's. Not having taken a 3 in the UVA game you really can't say he is on a 3 game trend. Plus two of the 4 shots he made versus UVA we slams.

I like that he is improving and contributing. the next couple of games can help his confidence but the question is how does he react after a poor shooting game with his success the last couple of games. Most guys go into a real self-confidence downer and could ruin him for a good while.

MChambers
01-24-2011, 08:38 PM
Gewebe14
Also there is the fact that hes been shooting close to 50% from 3 for basically the entire year

Not true, up until the State game, he was 9 of 28 on 3's, that is about 32%.

Bob Green
In the last three games, Kelly is 14-17 from the field including 6-6 on 3-pointers. I agree with Jim, it's a trend.

Not a trend if you include the last 3 games considering the last two games, he is 6-6 on 3's and 10-10 over all, thus the game before state he was 4-7 shooting and 0-0 on 3's. Not having taken a 3 in the UVA game you really can't say he is on a 3 game trend. Plus two of the 4 shots he made versus UVA we slams.

I like that he is improving and contributing. the next couple of games can help his confidence but the question is how does he react after a poor shooting game with his success the last couple of games. Most guys go into a real self-confidence downer and could ruin him for a good while.
The nice thing is that Duke has a great coaching staff that is willing not to just to look at a player's recent games or season to date, but is also willing to take into account what they see in practice. They also encourage players to grow, not just between seasons but also during the season. So Duke's coaching staff has been encouraging Ryan to take threes, just like it did with Laettner, with the thought that at some point in the season he'll be a very successful outside shooter.

As fans, I think we often focus too much on what we've seen in the most recent games (or even during the current game) and not to realize that the coaches have a much longer term perspective. As the Coach K/Bill Brill book is titled, "A Season is a Lifetime."