2010-2011 Problems at UNC

[Lord Ash]

Don't know if folks have seen this, but a MASSIVELY damning comment from Roy from yesterday, posted at a Carolina website...

"I’ve got half of the guys on my team that their mom and dad and their friends and everything think that they’re going to make $88 million. They could give a flip whether we win a game or not. They want their guy to get 37 shots and play 50 minutes in a 40-minute game..."

"It’s something that I’ve told many teams – if you cared one-tenth about it as much as I do, [gosh] it would be a lot of fun.”

Uhm... is it just me, or is this a pretty unbelievable thing for a coach to say? To be honest I didn't even guess that the chemistry was bad this year... or at least not as bad as this quote now makes me think. Why would Roy bring this up? Is it a coaching tactic?

Bizarre quote... even better than the "I am so angry I could fight someone with a chainsaw!" one from last week. And I would love to know what the [gosh] is replacing.

[flyingdutchdevil]

When Ole Roy won his first NC with UNC, he gained a significant amount of credibility. He was able to successfully recruit players that fit his system and also lucked out on how a few of those players turned out. 2004-2009 was an amazing time for UNC, much like Duke from 1998-2006. However, once Ole Roy was on his way to winning his second championship (or at least was pre-season #1 in the country, didn't have to coach, and let Lawson and Hansbrough charge through everyone), I think that his recruiting strategy changed. He no longer went after players that were 'glue' guys or legitimate 6th men (Danny Green, Marvin Williams, Deon Thompson) but rather went for heavy-weights with a proven scoring track-record (Leslie McDonald, John Henson, Reggie Bullock). Personality, and how these players mesh together, went straight out the window. It's like he looked at the Scout and Rival rankings, closed his eyes, and pointed to 3-4 players per year in the top 20. Furthermore, with UNC's success in the 00s, I think Roy felt that he didn't have to coach the players and that they could 'figure it out' themselves. This clearly hasn't been the case.

I think Roy realizes that he isn't invincible anymore. I think he realizes that 18- and 19-year olds need guidance, especially those who were once superstars in high school but need to come down to earth. I think Roy will once again, unfortunately, put everything together and once again be the UNC that contended for the ACC crown. It probably won't be this year, and maybe won't be next, but it'll happen soon enough.

[wilko]

MASSIVELY damning comment from Roy from yesterday, posted at a Carolina website...

"I’ve got half of the guys on my team that their mom and dad and their friends and everything think that they’re going to make $88 million. They could give a flip whether we win a game or not. They want their guy to get 37 shots and play 50 minutes in a 40-minute game..."

"It’s something that I’ve told many teams – if you cared one-tenth about it as much as I do, [gosh] it would be a lot of fun.”

Uhm... is it just me, or is this a pretty unbelievable thing for a coach to say? To be honest I didn't even guess that the chemistry was bad this year... or at least not as bad as this quote now makes me think. Why would Roy bring this up? Is it a coaching tactic?

Maybe its a portion of his recruiting pitch that is coming back to bite him in the boo-boo. The Chickens coming home to Roost; so to speak..

I can only HOPE it impacts OUR recruiting in a positive way.

[mkline09]

Don't know if folks have seen this, but a MASSIVELY damning comment from Roy from yesterday, posted at a Carolina website...

"I’ve got half of the guys on my team that their mom and dad and their friends and everything think that they’re going to make $88 million. They could give a flip whether we win a game or not. They want their guy to get 37 shots and play 50 minutes in a 40-minute game..."

"It’s something that I’ve told many teams – if you cared one-tenth about it as much as I do, [gosh] it would be a lot of fun.”

Uhm... is it just me, or is this a pretty unbelievable thing for a coach to say? To be honest I didn't even guess that the chemistry was bad this year... or at least not as bad as this quote now makes me think. Why would Roy bring this up? Is it a coaching tactic?

Bizarre quote... even better than the "I am so angry I could fight someone with a chainsaw!" one from last week. And I would love to know what the [gosh] is replacing.

I think there is a lot of truth in what Roy says. A lot of kids and their parents/handlers whatever the case may be, are like that. They think that and they feed that to the kids from the time they can dribble a ball. Classic little league parent syndrome.

Then they go to a major D-I program and they see their dreams coming true. But when their ideas collide with Roy's then things don't mesh. So what he states is probably true.

What he fails to mention is that there are countless other coaches who have dealt with and are dealing with this issues. He acts if it is he and he alone that must deal with the burden of such things.

He takes no accountability or responsibility for 1) bringing those kids to unc or 2) figuring out a way to get them to work collaboratively in the best interest of the team.

He doesn't consider if those player fit into his style of coaching or system (if he even has one) He puts the blame squarely on them and takes no responsibility when it all goes wrong. In a lot of ways he is just like the younger generation today. It is always someone else's fault and not mine.

This will be interesting to observe. If things don't get better this year, how secure is his job? He has bought some time but there is a limit to the patience of unc fans when it comes to basketball.

[rhcpflea99]

Not even sure if Roy is committed to winning? Roy keeps starting Drew II.

[UrinalCake]

Wow, every time Roy opens his mouth I get another idea for what the Crazies should do when UNC comes into town. So far this week we've got:

- Crazy guy with a chainsaw
- The $6 million man

Roy is rapidly surpassing Gary Williams as the easiest guy to make fun of in Cameron.

BTW it wouldn't surprise me if half of the guys on Duke's team also think they have a chance at "making $88 million." But the difference is that 1.) they know they're not there yet, 2.) they realize that the best way for them to get there is by helping their team win, and 3.) they trust their coach enough to follow what he asks, because they know he is not an idiot

[CDu]

When Ole Roy won his first NC with UNC, he gained a significant amount of credibility. He was able to successfully recruit players that fit his system and also lucked out on how a few of those players turned out. 2004-2009 was an amazing time for UNC, much like Duke from 1998-2006. However, once Ole Roy was on his way to winning his second championship (or at least was pre-season #1 in the country, didn't have to coach, and let Lawson and Hansbrough charge through everyone), I think that his recruiting strategy changed. He no longer went after players that were 'glue' guys or legitimate 6th men (Danny Green, Marvin Williams, Deon Thompson) but rather went for heavy-weights with a proven scoring track-record (Leslie McDonald, John Henson, Reggie Bullock). Personality, and how these players mesh together, went straight out the window. It's like he looked at the Scout and Rival rankings, closed his eyes, and pointed to 3-4 players per year in the top 20. Furthermore, with UNC's success in the 00s, I think Roy felt that he didn't have to coach the players and that they could 'figure it out' themselves. This clearly hasn't been the case.

I think Roy realizes that he isn't invincible anymore. I think he realizes that 18- and 19-year olds need guidance, especially those who were once superstars in high school but need to come down to earth. I think Roy will once again, unfortunately, put everything together and once again be the UNC that contended for the ACC crown. It probably won't be this year, and maybe won't be next, but it'll happen soon enough.

I think there may be something to this. I don't think it helps that he has simply miscalculated on his more recent recruiting classes. Drew, Strickland, McDonald, Henson, and Barnes have not (to this point) lived up to their billing (acknowledging that each had a different expectation level coming in). The Wears transferred out, and Graves got kicked off the team. All of these things have negatively impacted the program.

He had an embarrassment of riches when he came to UNC and then struck gold again with the Hansbrough class and with Lawson and Ellington. That 5-year run may have changed Williams's recruiting and coaching strategy, and he may still be trying to figure out how to adjust properly.

I didn't follow him as closely when he was at Kansas, but he had a lot of success there over many years with many different types of players. He's done very well without explosive PG before, too. So I don't think it's fair to say he doesn't know how to coach, or that he can't win without a Felton/Lawson at PG.

I'm more inclined to believe that he's just had a few years of recruiting misses, and that this is something he's not used to. Add to that the fact that these recruiting misses immediately followed a tremendous run of success, and he's not handling it well.

I hope it's something more than this, and that he's getting old and out of touch. But I'm more inclined to believe it's just a temporary blip and that UNC will bounce back soon (within the next few years, if not sooner).

[Rich]

And I would love to know what the [gosh] is replacing.

Gosh = Dangummit :D

[-bdbd]

I think there may be something to this. I don't think it helps that he has simply miscalculated on his more recent recruiting classes...

He had an embarrassment of riches when he came to UNC and then struck gold again with the Hansbrough class and with Lawson and Ellington. That 5-year run may have changed Williams's recruiting and coaching strategy, and he may still be trying to figure out how to adjust properly.

...he had a lot of success (at KA) over many years with many different types of players. He's done very well without explosive PG before, too. So I don't think it's fair to say he doesn't know how to coach, or that he can't win without a Felton/Lawson at PG.

I'm more inclined to believe that he's just had a few years of recruiting misses, and that this is something he's not used to. Add to that the fact that these recruiting misses immediately followed a tremendous run of success, and he's not handling it well. ....But I'm more inclined to believe it's just a temporary blip and that UNC will bounce back soon (within the next few years, if not sooner). [I]
I generally agree with the comments above - see bolded "keys." But disagree with the last bolded/italics one. UNC has not really had that many "misses" in terms of recruits they heavily recruited who went elsewhere. They've continued to bring in top-10 classes with some consistency. However, as was earlier posted, he/they have done a poor job of evaluating the talent they've targeted/obtained, and also how well those pieces would mesh. It happens everywhere - even K has brought in some kids with huge reputations who either didn't turn out as talented as expected (e.g. Burgess or Paulus) or didn't mesh well (e.g. McRoberts). But UNC has had several of these at the same time, on the heels (excuse the pun) of some great success. I think a further-complicating factor is that Roy, who I agree is probably a good coach overall, doesn't have "adaptability" or "player development" listed among his top strengths.

In any event, if I were a Kerlina fan I think I'd be at least as concerned over his finger pointing at the kids/parents (and not at himself/staff) as I would be about current wins/losses. :eek:

[billy]

Sorry if I missed this in the emails above, but, was this part of an interview or published anywhere?

[CDu]

[/I][/I]
I generally agree with the comments above - see bolded "keys." But disagree with the last bolded/italics one. UNC has not really had that many "misses" in terms of recruits they heavily recruited who went elsewhere. They've continued to bring in top-10 classes with some consistency. However, as was earlier posted, he/they have done a poor job of evaluating the talent they've targeted/obtained, and also how well those pieces would mesh. It happens everywhere - even K has brought in some kids with huge reputations who either didn't turn out as talented as expected (e.g. Burgess or Paulus) or didn't mesh well (e.g. McRoberts). But UNC has had several of these at the same time, on the heels (excuse the pun) of some great success. I think a further-complicating factor is that Roy, who I agree is probably a good coach overall, doesn't have "adaptability" or "player development" listed among his top strengths.

In any event, if I were a Kerlina fan I think I'd be at least as concerned over his finger pointing at the kids/parents (and not at himself/staff) as I would be about current wins/losses. :eek:

I meant "misses" in terms of guys not panning out - not guys going elsewhere. The recruits he brought in haven't (so far) turned out to be the players that he thought he was getting. In other words, I meant miss as in miscalculation or misevaluation and not failure to successfully recruit a kid. The term "miss" may have been poorly used.

And I totally agree on the last paragraph. Williams has shown a tendency to air out his frustrations without filter. As a parent, I'm not sure I'd be overly excited about a guy like that coaching my kid. It's fine when things are going well. But when you hit bumps in the road, I'd want a coach who doesn't publicly throw my kid under the bus.

[Lord Ash]

It was from Roy's weekly show; give it a read, there is even worse in there.

Link (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1040413.html)

I almost feel bad for him. Some of what he says is true, maybe, but he just doesn't seem to know when to say something and when to keep it private... it is all about knowing how to lead. It sounds silly, but I've "led" plenty of groups... sports teams, work teams, classrooms... and this sort of comment does NOTHING but make things worse. Roy just doesn't seem to "get it."

The difference between Roy and K, who obviously learned what it means to be a leader in one of the most focused schools of leadership on Earth (and, I think, was probably born with it as well) is just profound.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm more inclined to believe that he's just had a few years of recruiting misses, and that this is something he's not used to. Add to that the fact that these recruiting misses immediately followed a tremendous run of success, and he's not handling it well.

I hope it's something more than this, and that he's getting old and out of touch. But I'm more inclined to believe it's just a temporary blip and that UNC will bounce back soon (within the next few years, if not sooner).

In college basketball, everything starts with recruiting, whether it's the ability to draw in talented high school players (Cal, Ole Roy) or realize that underrated high schoolers can be coached into good-to-great college players (Gary Williams, Brad Stevens). While a coach will never know exactly what his team will look like next year, he can easily get a sense of this due to the current personnel and recruit against that.

I really think that Ole Roy's main issue is recruiting the wrong personnel. He isn't a bad in-game coach as some suggested (his track record at Kansas and UNC - last two years not withstanding - show that), he manages his players decently, he has integrity (at least some :)). 9 McD All-Americans (or whatever the number is) clearly isn't the trick. He's only looking at talent (or potential talent) and not recruiting a triangle when the system demands a triangle (metaphor, not the type of offense).

[CDu]

In college basketball, everything starts with recruiting, whether it's the ability to draw in talented high school players (Cal, Ole Roy) or realize that underrated high schoolers can be coached into good-to-great college players (Gary Williams, Brad Stevens). While a coach will never know exactly what his team will look like next year, he can easily get a sense of this due to the current personnel and recruit against that.

I really think that Ole Roy's main issue is recruiting the wrong personnel. He isn't a bad in-game coach as some suggested (his track record at Kansas and UNC - last two years not withstanding - show that), he manages his players decently, he has integrity (at least some :)). 9 McD All-Americans (or whatever the number is) clearly isn't the trick. He's only looking at talent (or potential talent) and not recruiting a triangle when the system demands a triangle (metaphor, not the type of offense).

I don't know that it's fair to say that he's only looking at talent and not looking at chemistry. It could be that Williams has ignored the talent mix and just recruited an all-star team, but I don't know that it's fair to say that yet. I think it is more fair to say that he's just misevaluated on a few recruiting classes. Remember - he did recruit two guys who would have been role players (the Wears), but they transferred. And the other guys he has haven't been as good as advertised.

If the Wear twins stay (replacing Knox, who probably then doesn't get an offer) and Drew, Strickland, McDonald, and Marshall were as good as advertised in high school, this team would be REALLY tough. They'd have four all-ACC quality guards, two all-ACC quality bigs, and two solid, versatile, role playing bigs to do the dirty work. And that doesn't even consider that Henson, Barnes, and Bullock haven't had the impact they were expected to have, either. But none of those has been the case (Marshall and McDonald may be figuring it out).

Hopefully, it's a trend that continues!

[Lord Ash]

You know, this might sound way out there...

... but I never liked how Roy refers to himself by first name, and players do too. I cannot help but feel it leads down a bad path. Players should refer to their coach (and players being RECRUITED should DEFINITELY refer to their prospective coach) as "Coach" or "Coach So and So." Generally they should NOT be on a first name basis with a few exceptions (in very personal discussions, etc.)

I can't help but think Ol'Roy is not a very good leader.

[kong123]

looks like we will see a different starting lineup for tonight's game. word is, Roy told the assistants to completely shuffle the deck between the first team and second team and make them fight it out in practice. sounds like Marshall, McDonald, and Knox may start at the 1, 2, and 5. Perhaps Knox will start for Henson instead of Zeller, but we will see. Either way, tonight's game will be interesting for many different reasons.

[UrinalCake]

looks like we will see a different starting lineup for tonight's game.

This should be interesting. I think Roy is walking a really fine line between "shaking things up" to send the starters a message, versus appearing like he has no idea what he is doing. By this time of year guys should be settling into their roles. Not to say that late-season lineup changes can't happen (as they have at Duke) but completely starting from scratch, combined with the 5-man substitutions we've seen in the last two games, makes me think he's grasping at straws hoping to stumble upon something that will work.

I like Knox starting over Henson. He always seems to play well when I see him in the game, and it will take some pressure off of Henson.

Also, with respect to Roy's recruiting, Duke has gone after some of these same guys, so either both programs were wrong in evaluating them, or the players are simply in the wrong system. Recruiting is not an exact science; we certainly found that out with the Paulus/McRoberts class.

[CDu]

looks like we will see a different starting lineup for tonight's game. word is, Roy told the assistants to completely shuffle the deck between the first team and second team and make them fight it out in practice. sounds like Marshall, McDonald, and Knox may start at the 1, 2, and 5. Perhaps Knox will start for Henson instead of Zeller, but we will see. Either way, tonight's game will be interesting for many different reasons.

Based on production, these moves would make some sense. Marshall has been more productive than Drew, McDonald has been a better scorer than Strickland, and Knox seems to be a better complement to either Henson or Zeller than Henson and Zeller are for one another.

However, unless Williams decides to trim the rotation, he's still going to have to have a lot of minutes with Henson and Zeller together and with Drew at PG.

Other moves that would make some sense:
1. changing the big man rotation to exclude Watts (who is a SG playing PF this year) and include Barnes
2. increasing the minutes for Marshall and McDonald and decreasing the minutes for Drew
3. using Knox alongside Henson/Zeller more rather than the combo of Knox and Watts
4. trying to work in more lineups with good shooters (this might just be equivalent to #1 though)

Ultimately, I'm not sure it will make a big difference or not.

[jdj4duke]

Not a current player or team problem, but I am sure their fans wouldn't consider this the Carolina Way. Warning- not safe for work, kids, or civilization. All that's needed is a chain saw episode.

It's a good thing he's not an agent, too, since that would put him in Roy's doghouse.

http://jocksandstilettojill.com/2011/01/former-nba-player-rashad-mccants-stars-in-booster-club-with-traci-lords/

[moonpie23]

O.......M.......G !!!!!!!!

[CLT Devil]

I think one thing that is very simple to see in explaining the current state of UNC basketball is that they basically did not miss out on any recruits, either landing them or their production once they arrived, while Duke has some pretty big misses in both areas. Lately Duke has started to bounce back, and it's all cyclical, and currently UNC is going through a bad stretch in having players show up on campus who just aren't as good as advertised or fail to develop like expected.

That's one huge thing that Carolina has basically hit home runs on since Roy has been there that has not panned out in the last couple of seasons.

As far as his comment on players' family and friends; Does anyone remember the feud between Sean May's family (mainly his Dad) and 'Doh? It led to some dissention...could that possibly be going on again, as parents might be questioning the Coach since the team is not winning?

[peterjswift]

I don't know if this was mentioned in the thread about Roy's players' loss to GaTech, but Drew II's father was sitting immediately behind the bench. After reading some of the meltdown on IC, it is clear that the biggest complaint is how much Roy plays Drew when a more than qualified backup is available. I think Roy is competent enough to realize this, but possibly not confident enough to pull the struggling Drew when his NBA Coach father is breathing down his neck.

That being said, I think Roy has a point about his players and their parents, but he's clearly just as guilty as his players. If Roy really cared about winning, he would have pulled Drew, despite his father sitting right behind him.

[Duvall]

That being said, I think Roy has a point about his players and their parents, but he's clearly just as guilty as his players. If Roy really cared about winning, he would have pulled Drew, despite his father sitting right behind him.

To be fair, Drew II had a better game than Marshall on Sunday.

IC is dumb. Changing the starting lineup won't make a huge difference when one player gets 21 minutes and the other 19.

[CDu]

To be fair, Drew II had a better game than Marshall on Sunday.

IC is dumb. Changing the starting lineup won't make a huge difference when one player gets 21 minutes and the other 19.

Well, it COULD make a difference if Williams keeps using predominantly separate lineups (i.e., keeps subbing 5 for 5). In that case, it may very well matter which 5 are paired together for roughly half the game or more. It may be that pairing Marshall more with the first unit (and getting him more minutes) would make a big difference.

If the substitution pattern gets less drastic and there's more mixing of lineups, then I agree with you. The only true change would be if the minutes distribution changed.

[peterjswift]

To be fair, Drew II had a better game than Marshall on Sunday.

IC is dumb. Changing the starting lineup won't make a huge difference when one player gets 21 minutes and the other 19.

Drew II did, but his platoon didn't fare as well as Marshall's platoon.

[epoulsen]

He is a classless act. Quick to blame everyone else. He blamed Jim Baron for their loss in the NITs, he blamed his team for their failures last year, he blames the players lack of emotion, empathy for the program, and even their parents for their shortcomings this year. I like the comment earlier which said that every coach has to deal with most of the problems Roy is going through, Roy just doesn't deal with them very well. When the team is doing what it's supposed to (win) it's easy for him to come off as a great coach and leader. Those qualities are now being tested and he fails the test with each interview he gives, case and point: the Roy Williams Suicide Watch.

[wilson]

Based on production, these moves would make some sense. Marshall has been more productive than Drew, McDonald has been a better scorer than Strickland, and Knox seems to be a better complement to either Henson or Zeller than Henson and Zeller are for one another.

However, unless Williams decides to trim the rotation, he's still going to have to have a lot of minutes with Henson and Zeller together and with Drew at PG.

Other moves that would make some sense:
1. changing the big man rotation to exclude Watts (who is a SG playing PF this year) and include Barnes
2. increasing the minutes for Marshall and McDonald and decreasing the minutes for Drew
3. using Knox alongside Henson/Zeller more rather than the combo of Knox and Watts
4. trying to work in more lineups with good shooters (this might just be equivalent to #1 though)

Ultimately, I'm not sure it will make a big difference or not.You express some good insights here, and your four-point plan seems a reasonable prescription for unc to turn it around. However, there are problems:
1. I don't think Barnes is particularly well-suited at PF. He needs to be curling off screens and getting some shots through set pieces. The problem in my eyes is not that he's out of position; it's that the heels' halfcourt offense does essentially nothing to help him get involved.
2. Why would Roy bow to logic with regard to the point now? He has stubbornly trudged along as-is for a season and a half now.
3. I think Zeller and Henson are clearly the two best bigs on their team (and right now, although he's been slumping, I'd still call Zeller the best player of any position on their team). Again, I perceive the problem to be one of issues getting them the ball under favorable circumstances, rather than shortcomings on the part of the bigs themselves. It would be interesting, however, to see what might happen if Roy decided to go very big and play Zeller-Henson-Knox together...this lineup might well give a team like us fits, especially if the heels can play some of the good defense they've shown in spurts recently.
4. This really, to me, is the biggest problem with the heels. There just aren't any very good shooters on the team. I remember saying this during last year's earlygoing, and I don't see that anything has changed much. Especially since the point guards' ability to create anything is so deficient, this tactical shortcoming is magnified. This only accentuates my point above that Zeller and Henson should probably be serving more as focal points. If they could generate a bit of offensive momentum out of some half-court sets, it might well open up the court some for HB et. al. to start sinking some open looks. However, Roy has shown that he is loath to coach much of anything resembling a half-court game, and forget about set pieces. This, to me, ties into the recruiting discussion above. In the interest of luring high-profile recruits to chapel hill, Roy likes to gleefully declare that he "never runs plays," but particularly after having missed in his evaluation of a couple of PGs and their ability to play the free-form game he favors, such an approach appears to be to the considerable detriment of his team's fortunes (at least, his team as currently constituted).

[walras]

Another issue that is real, and no one seems to have connected with the current UNC situation, is Dean Smith's declining health. It is well known around UNC that Williams talked to Smith almost daily over all the years Roy was at Kansas, and also during his first years back at UNC. Last year Smith was no longer able to function as Roy's mentor. The result was the 2009-2010 disaster. And the disaster continues. Cause and effect.

[J.Blink]

I caught a minute or two of the show last night. Olroy said something along the lines of "I saw Jawad and Marvin the other day, and Marvin said to me 'Coach, at some point they just have to play'" ... I found that interesting.

The other things he said that I thought were rather "interesting" was that nobody (outside the program) cared a flip about getting the players to graduate and perform well academically (but that was it's important to Roy), and that besides his family, UNC basketball is all he cares about.

[oldnavy]

It's not about the talent or the missed recruits, it is about leadership and like I have said a dozen times now Roy could not lead an ant to a picnic!

[Kfanarmy]

Don't know if folks have seen this, but a MASSIVELY damning comment from Roy from yesterday, posted at a Carolina website...

"I’ve got half of the guys on my team that their mom and dad and their friends and everything think that they’re going to make $88 million. They could give a flip whether we win a game or not. They want their guy to get 37 shots and play 50 minutes in a 40-minute game..."

"It’s something that I’ve told many teams – if you cared one-tenth about it as much as I do, [gosh] it would be a lot of fun.”

Uhm... is it just me, or is this a pretty unbelievable thing for a coach to say? To be honest I didn't even guess that the chemistry was bad this year... or at least not as bad as this quote now makes me think. Why would Roy bring this up? Is it a coaching tactic?

Bizarre quote... even better than the "I am so angry I could fight someone with a chainsaw!" one from last week. And I would love to know what the [gosh] is replacing.

Leaving out the sentence
"The culture is hard on kids nowadays, and I understand that, but it makes coaching harder." between the "game... and "It's" seems a bit misleading.

I think Roy is nuts, but this sentence was intended to insure the comment was applied to those outside the program and not the players. Just doesn't seem right to cherry pick it out of such a long quote.

[gam7]

Not a current player or team problem, but I am sure their fans wouldn't consider this the Carolina Way. Warning- not safe for work, kids, or civilization. All that's needed is a chain saw episode.

It's a good thing he's not an agent, too, since that would put him in Roy's doghouse.

http://jocksandstilettojill.com/2011/01/former-nba-player-rashad-mccants-stars-in-booster-club-with-traci-lords/

This movie looks amazing. Was that a cameo by Doug Gottlieb as a police officer at the 1:18 mark?

More to the point of the thread: I think the transfer of the Wears may have made Roy a bit more hesitant to trim the rotation this year than he might have otherwise. It almost seems to me that he wants to give guys enough minutes so that they feel as though they are contributing and are less likely to cause the disruption that accompanies player transfers.

[ChicagoHeel]

A Heel fan's thoughts on Roy's coaching over the last couple of years...

1. The recruiting is not an issue. I do not agree with some in this threat that Roy has failed to recruit with an eye towards team chemistry. Some recruits have not lived up to expectations (e.g. Drew II) and some have not had the instant impact we hoped (e.g. Barnes, Henson) but will be quite good if they stay three or more years. Much like Duke this year, in 2009 we were very lucky to have both talented and experienced players and that always makes a coach look good. Likewise, when recruits do not live up to expectations it is easy to question a coach's recruiting or general coaching ability. Everyone stays next year and much of the talk about Roy's weaknesses will fade away.

2. Roy has been too hard on the team. He's become blinded by his own belief and repeated assertions about hard work and blames every failing on a lack of effort. He repeatedly says "my coaching stunk" and then follows it up with a statement that implies its really more about the players than him. For instance, after the Tech loss he said:

"I've got to do a better job of getting my kids to act like it means something to them. I just have to do a better job because we didn't execute, we missed layups, and missed free throws."

"I've got to become a better coach...This is the third straight game we walked through the motions and we were fortunate enough twice in a row to come from behind and I thought we were going to tonight.... If you watched the game tonight, one of the biggest problem we had was passing and catching - that's pretty elementary. You've got to look the ball into your hands ... I've got to become a better coach really quickly"

Both start with the statement "I need to be better" but basically say "my players suck". That message has to get old and deflate the players. I rarely see Roy make statements that are aimed at lifting the team. No wonder we've been so prone to these huge runs against us where the whole team seems to lose confidence and appear hapless. Sure, many of the players have a sense of entitlement, but they are also kids. I just don't see the benefit of telling Barnes- a kid who obviously cares and is guilty of little more than pressing too hard- that "your game stunk today".

3. Roy has been too inflexible. This was obvious last year when he kept pushing the team to run even though Drew is simply not effective in that role. It's apparent in his repeated assertions that it's all about effort and in his (to date) unwillingness to start Marshall over Drew.

4. UNC's problems are more about poor guard play than poor coaching. A combination of bad decision making and poor outside shooting- either due to youth or insufficient ability- is almost impossible for any coach to overcome. Especially this year, it's almost always our offense that destroys our defense and the offensive futility is largely a function of a weak backcourt.

[SmartDevil]

I think Roy is nuts.....

Well, we're not health professionals....but his behavior is such that perhaps it it time for Roy, his family, and some consulting professionals to consider his stepping away for a year or so and getting some expert support in regaining his composure, his perspective, his ability to manage challenges, and his ability to lead.

He's always been somewhat out of control--one of the things I've disliked so much about him are his shameful antics on the sidelines and bench, embarrassing his own players....hands covering eyes as he shakes his head....as if things are beyond his control, pointing the finger in essence at his team--but his loose-cannon mouth seems to have deteriorated further in recent years. The trend getting worse is particularly disturbing.

If a very high ranking executive representing any organization acted/talked this way repeatedly on national tv, I think quite a few people would believe that significant time off would be in order before things got even worse and inflicted serious damage on the institution.

[budwom]

Based on production, these moves would make some sense. Marshall has been more productive than Drew, McDonald has been a better scorer than Strickland, and Knox seems to be a better complement to either Henson or Zeller than Henson and Zeller are for one another.

However, unless Williams decides to trim the rotation, he's still going to have to have a lot of minutes with Henson and Zeller together and with Drew at PG.

Other moves that would make some sense:
1. changing the big man rotation to exclude Watts (who is a SG playing PF this year) and include Barnes
2. increasing the minutes for Marshall and McDonald and decreasing the minutes for Drew
3. using Knox alongside Henson/Zeller more rather than the combo of Knox and Watts
4. trying to work in more lineups with good shooters (this might just be equivalent to #1 though)

Ultimately, I'm not sure it will make a big difference or not.

I trust you realize that if Ol' Roy were to begin playing Barnes at PF, he would be the hands down winner of the 2011 Delicious Irony Award. The man may be a bit off plumb, but I think it would take an act of God to get him to make that move. Having said that, let's hope he does so it gives Prince Harry something else to think about, perhaps some introspection about what might have been (13 kilometres down the road), though I'm sure he's had those thoughts already.

[gumbomoop]

Well, we're not health professionals....but his behavior is such that perhaps it it time for Roy, his family, and some consulting professionals to consider his stepping away for a year or so and getting some expert support in regaining his composure, his perspective, his ability to manage challenges, and his ability to lead.

He's always been somewhat out of control--one of the things I've disliked so much about him are his shameful antics on the sidelines and bench, embarrassing his own players....hands covering eyes as he shakes his head....as if things are beyond his control, pointing the finger in essence at his team--but his loose-cannon mouth seems to have deteriorated further in recent years. The trend getting worse is particularly disturbing.

If a very high ranking executive representing any organization acted/talked this way repeatedly on national tv, I think quite a few people would believe that significant time off would be in order before things got even worse and inflicted serious damage on the institution.

In an earlier post in the previous thread [UNC-GaTech], I said Roy is the Michael Scott of coaching. When I watch "The Office," Michael's antics are hilariously painful. You just cannot believe how self-obsessed he can be, how obviously he shifts blame to others for his own awful decisions, his incompetence as a leader.

Roy's curious behavior and blame-shifting comments now draw some uncomfortable attention from media folks. Unless he takes an entirely different approach with his players behind the scenes - a sort of, "You know I love you, those public comments are just for idiot sportswriters" - he's on dangerous ground. As SD says in the tag quote, Roy's trend toward out-of-control is disturbing.

Roy is not the brilliant star of a very quirky sitcom. He has become the unctuous lead in an embarrassing reality show. Michael Scott is lovable because he's so awful. It won't work that way for Roy.

[BD80]

looks like we will see a different starting lineup for tonight's game. word is, Roy told the assistants to completely shuffle the deck between the first team and second team and make them fight it out in practice. sounds like Marshall, McDonald, and Knox may start at the 1, 2, and 5. Perhaps Knox will start for Henson instead of Zeller, but we will see. Either way, tonight's game will be interesting for many different reasons.

So you're saying Clemson has a chance ...


Not a current player ...

http://jocksandstilettojill.com/2011/01/former-nba-player-rashad-mccants-stars-in-booster-club-with-traci-lords/

Best part:

"Rashad plays the Bisexual leader of a high end shoplifting ring, the series also stars former porn star Traci Lords."

Even with the gifted imaginations on this board, I doubt we could have come up with this;

truth stranger than fiction ....

[OldPhiKap]

{great observations}

Excellent post, CH, thanks for the insight and hope you come by more often (or sorry if I've missed you before). I think your last point is the key -- if the pg play were better, a lot of these problems would cure themselves to some degree.

[gumbomoop]

4. UNC's problems are more about poor guard play than poor coaching. A combination of bad decision making and poor outside shooting- either due to youth or insufficient ability- is almost impossible for any coach to overcome. Especially this year, it's almost always our offense that destroys our defense and the offensive futility is largely a function of a weak backcourt.

I need to watch UNC more carefully, to see if my high opinion of Marshall is justified. I saw only first-half snippets of the GaTech game, and I swear I saw 5-6 nice passes from him. He looks up court as soon as he gets the ball. He "sees" the court. He knows how to put the ball in just the right spot so that the defender can't get to it, often releasing the ball from an odd angle, with varying speed, often with delicate spin.

I've thought the LDII thing is a soap opera waiting to happen. I assume Roy doesn't want to give up on him. I have thought a couple of times that Drew would transfer, and do not discount that possibility still, should this season see a repeat of last. I have a vague recollection that recruiting gurus were far apart in their respective assessments of Drew coming out of HS; indeed, at least one had him barely in the top 100; others top 30.

Drew has shown some signs of being disconnected from the Carolina Way, and certainly from CH in the summers, so it's seemed to me that Roy has a delicate situation on his hands here. IIRC, Drew had some impressive drives to the hoop in the NIT last season [hold the guffaws just here, I'm being serious], but in the last several UNC games, he does exactly the same thing every time he crosses halfcourt: races [the "system"] to almost the foul line, then goes sideways, then backs the ball out. Every time, or close to it.

The GaTech debacle may have led Roy to go with Marshall as the starter. If so, the Drew soap opera will be interesting to follow.

Btw - very insightful post by ChicagoHeel, all of it, including the Roy stuff. Highly recommended. More from ChicagoHeel, please.

[J.Blink]

You know the really ironic thing? I remember hearing from any number of heels a couple years ago about how Coach K threw his players under the bus because (as an example), he made Elliott Williams a starter over Paulus, how Coach K had no loyalty to his players, etc. Roy of course spread around playing time much more equitably and was always loyal to his players (and as a result had clearly surpassed K with 2 championships in 5 years, winning the recruiting battle, yadda yadda yadda)

My how the tables have turned...

[wgl1228]

In light of the gems that Roy Williams has been throwing out this week, I feel a list of our past favorites would be good as we await Duke's next game. I'll start with the "I am so mad I would fight somebody who had a chainsaw" comment.

[SMO]

"as a human being that's not very nice because it's not very sensitive and I could give a $#it about North Carolina right now"

Roy was very sensitive about the lack of sensitivity in his response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvW0SGEqC5k

[Duvall]

"I told them I thought they were a bunch of pansies, and we got to get tougher." (http://beyondthearc.nbcsports.com/2010/10/25/roy-ran-his-unc-pansies-until-they-got-tougher/)

[Duvall]

"We ran a set play this morning in practice and I said, ‘Dexter, what are you doing?’ And he said, 'Coach, I don't know what to do.' 'Well, whose fault is that - mine or yours? This is practice No. 53, son.'" (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/939211.html)

[Duvall]

"I have more desire in my little finger than all the dadgum Carolina fans in the world." (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/939211.html)

[Duvall]

"I asked them a question and I got Coach [Joe] Holladay over there. I don’t share things with you that I shouldn’t share, but I said, ‘Coach, what did I say about these two guys today?’ And he repeated it, because I had told the staff. So I told them, ‘At this point, the two best defensive guards I’ve ever coached were Jacque Vaughn and Jerrod Haase.’ And I said, ‘Coach, now compare these two guys right in front of us to Jerrod Haase for toughness.’ And Joe had a great line. He looked at me and said, ‘Jerrod was a 10 and these two are ones, on a scale of 1-10.’ And I said, ‘Well, that’s about what I thought because I was going to say that Jerrod was a 1,000 times tougher than they are." (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/948612.html)

[Duvall]

"Don’t ever ask a coach, ‘Have you thought of…’, because I guarantee that I’ve thought of everything that you and all of your buddies could ever freakin’ think of. We’ve got five of us that are full-time coaches, 24 hours a day. I’m not a pharmacist, I’m not an insurance guy, I’m not a lawyer, I’m not a banker. I am a coach. So there’s not one freakin’ thing that anybody’s going to think about that we haven’t thought about." (http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_NewsBreaker_External.asp?NB=1663)

[dukebluelemur]

In light of the gems that Roy Williams has been throwing out this week, I feel a list of our past favorites would be good as we await Duke's next game. I'll start with the "I am so mad I would fight somebody who had a chainsaw" comment.

I'm still confused about that quote, which I believe was actually "I'm so mad I could fight somebody(,?) with a chain saw."

Does that mean he could fight (somebody who has a chainsaw.) Which would imply that he is suicidal. Or does it mean that he could fight somebody, using a chainsaw (himself). Which would mean he is homicidal. This is a rather important distinction I think.

In the spoken word, its rather hard to tell if there is a comma there.

[rasputin]

I don't usually look at that stuff, and obviously it's meaningless at this point, but right now Lunardi has Carolina in as an 8 seed, in the same region where Kansas is the one seed. How much fun could that be?

[crimsonandblue]

I don't usually look at that stuff, and obviously it's meaningless at this point, but right now Lunardi has Carolina in as an 8 seed, in the same region where Kansas is the one seed. How much fun could that be?

More fun than playing Northern Iowa.

[billyj]

I am shocked to read some of the quotes. They seem to be in a lot deeper problem than I thought. I know Carolina fans makes fun of Coach K doing basketball camps for corporate execs, but it does seem like he's good at handling personal issues, it's definitely something that should be place as a high emphasis on a powerful college basketball programs. There are just too much ego on the UNC team right now. They have talent, tons of McD's AA. If they can just get some good point guard play, they should be a good team.

[AZLA]

In light of the gems that Roy Williams has been throwing out this week, I feel a list of our past favorites would be good as we await Duke's next game. I'll start with the "I am so mad I would fight somebody who had a chainsaw" comment.

I'd like to see that on Pay Per View.

Would be a short battle but highly entertaining.

Especially if Doherty holds the chainsaw

[A-Tex Devil]

What I am hearing from UNC fans is that they agree with Roy. I am working on a neophyte ACC blog with a fellow Dukie and a Tarheel, the Rathskeller (http://rathskeller.fantake.com), and our resident Tarheel, and many others I have seen are firmly in Roy's camp on this one.

The biggest weakness for UNC is the same problem Duke had in from '94-96 and '06-'08: lack of ability to penetrate with the ball on offense and prevent penetration on defense.

Roy is clearly not ready to hand the keys to Kendall Marshall yet even though Drew has clearly not been up to snuff against quality opponents.

All that said, the 'Heels had a bad road loss not unlike our loss to NC State last year. They are only a half game behind us, and I won't write them off until they've truly earned it. They are more than capable in this dumpster of a league this year of finishing 11-5.

[Duvall]

"I'm stayin'." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwce9LkYoQY)

[peblnh8]

Should I stay or Should I go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVfjVw7pkJk&feature=related)

[sdotbarbee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqOlwEYrT0I&NR=1

[oldnavy]

What I am hearing from UNC fans is that they agree with Roy. I am working on a neophyte ACC blog with a fellow Dukie and a Tarheel, the Rathskeller (http://rathskeller.fantake.com), and our resident Tarheel, and many others I have seen are firmly in Roy's camp on this one.

The biggest weakness for UNC is the same problem Duke had in from '94-96 and '06-'08: lack of ability to penetrate with the ball on offense and prevent penetration on defense.

Roy is clearly not ready to hand the keys to Kendall Marshall yet even though Drew has clearly not been up to snuff against quality opponents.

All that said, the 'Heels had a bad road loss not unlike our loss to NC State last year. They are only a half game behind us, and I won't write them off until they've truly earned it. They are more than capable in this dumpster of a league this year of finishing 11-5.

And just as capable of finishing 5-11... that is the beauty of it all!!

[striker219]

Best part:

"Rashad plays the Bisexual leader of a high end shoplifting ring, the series also stars former porn star Traci Lords."

Even with the gifted imaginations on this board, I doubt we could have come up with this;

truth stranger than fiction ....

It's like Movie of the Week Mad Libs.

Maybe Rashad can hook up with R Kelly to do another Hip Hopera. That would really make my day.

[WiJoe]

There are 345 Division I schools. How many other coaches do you think would act like that...? Here's the answer: NOT A ONE. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH.

[stillcrazie]

What was it he said last year to his massage therapist about having problems worse than Haiti? That was a classic.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Both start with the statement "I need to be better" but basically say "my players suck". That message has to get old and deflate the players. I rarely see Roy make statements that are aimed at lifting the team. No wonder we've been so prone to these huge runs against us where the whole team seems to lose confidence and appear hapless. Sure, many of the players have a sense of entitlement, but they are also kids. I just don't see the benefit of telling Barnes- a kid who obviously cares and is guilty of little more than pressing too hard- that "your game stunk today".


I was thinking about some of the lashings that have been given to Mason on this board lately. And then you hear Coach K say something uplifting about a specific part of Mason's performance on the very same night that many folks are saying that he really sucked it up. You couldn't find two more divergent approaches. Thank god K is on our side.

[Spy]

Looks like Ole' Roy finally got the message and is going with Marshall over Drew II.

[ipatent]

I think Roy will once again, unfortunately, put everything together and once again be the UNC that contended for the ACC crown. It probably won't be this year, and maybe won't be next, but it'll happen soon enough.

Not sure how long he has left. He looks older than he is, likes golf a lot and is getting skewered by his own fans.

[Duvall]

What was it he said last year to his massage therapist about having problems worse than Haiti? That was a classic.

"Our massage therapist told me, 'You know, coach, what happened in Haiti is a catastrophe. What you're having is a disappointment,' " Williams said. "I told her that depends on what chair you're sitting in. It does feel like a catastrophe to me, because it is my life." (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Roy-Williams-UNC-s-woes-feel-like-Haiti-catast?urn=ncaab-218876)

[Son of Mojo]

The McCants movie is sure to be a classic. He must've had Dave Chappelle as a casting consultant to have McCants' play his character Beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sf_Dd0Eke0
(some objectionable language in that)

[stillcrazie]

"Our massage therapist told me, 'You know, coach, what happened in Haiti is a catastrophe. What you're having is a disappointment,' " Williams said. "I told her that depends on what chair you're sitting in. It does feel like a catastrophe to me, because it is my life." (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Roy-Williams-UNC-s-woes-feel-like-Haiti-catast?urn=ncaab-218876)

Excellent. Thanks.

Unfortunately, Holes up by 8 with 15 minutes to go in the second half.

[OldPhiKap]

Duvall, buddy, I'm starting to worry about your obsession here.



(But man, is it funny and on target).

[Duvall]

"I don't give a [DELETED] how long you've been a Carolina fan...keep your [DELETED] phone calls to yourself." (https://twitter.com/joshwgoodson/status/27565118300622849)

[DukieInBrasil]

Ol' Roy finally fessed up to his error and finally started Marshall over DrewII. This bodes well for Kerlina :( seeing as how UNC played better as a team with LDII relegated to the bench, but LDII put up better numbers than normal, and arguably better numbers than KM. This ought help soothe the battered ego that is LD II, knowing that at least HE is playing better than before, and the fact that UNC is too is incidental. Look at how much better John Henson played with someone who can get him the ball inside! (Imagine what Mason would be able to do with a PG that gets him the ball in the paint, oh wait...) In addition to that the combo of Henzellah had a very nice game in the post.
This might be the change that allows UNC to be a legit contender for #2 in the ACC.

[jipops]

This might be the change that allows UNC to be a legit contender for #2 in the ACC.

As of now, they are still a contender for #1. Recent games haven't exactly shown us to be the clear-cut leader we wanted to see.

[Duvall]

As of now, they are still a contender for #1. Recent games haven't exactly shown us to be the clear-cut leader we wanted to see.

Duke's recent games have come against considerably tougher competition.

[jipops]

Duke's recent games have come against considerably tougher competition.

And we're looking at more tough competition coming on the road tomorrow night. The NC State game last season is a harsh memory.

[OldPhiKap]

As of now, they are still a contender for #1. Recent games haven't exactly shown us to be the clear-cut leader we wanted to see.

Word. We are working through adjustments, and conference play is never a given. We have a target on our back every game, and the road houses are always packed when we roll into town.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Word. We are working through adjustments, and conference play is never a given. We have a target on our back every game, and the road houses are always packed when we roll into town.

You can also make the argument that UNC has a target on their back. After all, they are still UNC. From 2006-2009, we weren't the best team in the ACC but we still received every team's best shot because of the "Duke" written on our players' jerseys. If UNC is a tourney team, and I'm guessing they are, that is still a lucrative game for prospective tourney teams.

[Duvall]

You can also make the argument that UNC has a target on their back. After all, they are still UNC. From 2006-2009, we weren't the best team in the ACC but we still received every team's best shot because of the "Duke" written on our players' jerseys.

2006?

[BD80]

You know the really ironic thing? I remember hearing from any number of heels a couple years ago about how Coach K threw his players under the bus because (as an example), he made Elliott Williams a starter over Paulus, how Coach K had no loyalty to his players, etc. ...

Poor ol' roy, his "loyalty" just can't compare to visions of $88 million.

I'm certain visions of NBA $ is what made the Wear brothers jump ship ...

Strength of character. K has it, ol' roy doesn't.

[flyingdutchdevil]

2006?

Season starting 2006 (06-07 season). Sorry - should have made that more clear.

[60's Devil]

The highlight of last night's UNC-Clemson game was seeing Roy's footwear. While out on the court assisting an injured player, we got a close up of Ol' Roy's shoes....pointy-toed eyetalian alligator or snakeskin. Not exactly the shoe of choice for a good ole boy!

[DukeGirl4ever]

I'm still confused about that quote, which I believe was actually "I'm so mad I could fight somebody(,?) with a chain saw."

Does that mean he could fight (somebody who has a chainsaw.) Which would imply that he is suicidal. Or does it mean that he could fight somebody, using a chainsaw (himself). Which would mean he is homicidal. This is a rather important distinction I think.

In the spoken word, its rather hard to tell if there is a comma there.

As an English teacher, I've been pondering this as well!
Thanks for making me realize I'm not the only weirdo out there! :p

[cato]

pointy-toed eyetalian alligator or snakeskin. Not exactly the shoe of choice for a good ole boy!

I have a relative in Louisiana who would beg to differ. Of course, the alligator in question came from said relative's alligator farm, and was reportedly a nasty, nasty fellow before entering (forced) retirement in the men's footwear and furnishings department.

[sdotbarbee]

Can't really believe the Charlotte Observer is saying something critical about unc basketball.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/tom_talks/2011/01/ol-roy-ought-to-suck-it-up-and-stop-whining.html

[Duvall]

Can't really believe the Charlotte Observer is saying something critical about unc basketball.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/tom_talks/2011/01/ol-roy-ought-to-suck-it-up-and-stop-whining.html

It's a dispute between UNC fans and the UNC coach, so that's allowed.

[wilson]

Can't really believe the Charlotte Observer is saying something critical about unc basketball.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/tom_talks/2011/01/ol-roy-ought-to-suck-it-up-and-stop-whining.html

It's a dispute between UNC fans and the UNC coach, so that's allowed.Joking aside, I think Sorenson's piece is more telling than one might first realize. Rabid, unreasonable fan complaints are one thing, but when even the fawning North Carolina media is beginning to tire of Roy's constant acerbic condescension, and the cloak of supposed neutrality begins to erode, it seems as if he's got a(nother) real problem on his hands. How long before Roy's crustiness becomes a legitimate P.R. problem for his university?*

*I recognize that, even if he's posing this kind of problem, Roy's benefits to unc still far outweigh his detriments, and I also realize that we're still a ways out from the negatives even approaching balance with the positives, but it's getting harder and harder to argue that his presence in chapel hill is purely a positive for the baby blue crowd.

[DukieinSoCal]

What does everyone think are UNC's chances of making the NCAAs this year?
And how many years of mediocre results would it take for Ol Roy to actually get axed or step down? Although I am enjoying watching him flounder around without a clue.

[airowe]

If you've forgotten any pearls of wisdom from Ole Roy's mouth, refresh your memory here: http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2011/01/19/roy-williams-foot-in-mouth-repository/

[wilson]

What does everyone think are UNC's chances of making the NCAAs this year?
And how many years of mediocre results would it take for Ol Roy to actually get axed or step down? Although I am enjoying watching him flounder around without a clue.I have said before and I will repeat that I don't think he'd ever get fired. He might pridefully retire and/or reach a negotiated, behind-the-scenes agreement to step down, but carolina will never, ever axe him.
Furthermore, I think he'd have to miss the NCAAs again this year and then at least one more time before this became even a halfway realistic scenario.

[JStuart]

I have said before and I will repeat that I don't think he'd ever get fired. He might pridefully retire and/or reach a negotiated, behind-the-scenes agreement to step down, but carolina will never, ever axe him.
Furthermore, I think he'd have to miss the NCAAs again this year and then at least one more time before this became even a halfway realistic scenario.

Jeez, if the school is fighting so hard to keep Butch as a coach, just imagine what Roy would have to do in order to be summarily dismissed. Something along the lines of a "dead girl, or a live boy"? (See Politics, Louisiana).

[dukebluelemur]

Joking aside, I think Sorenson's piece is more telling than one might first realize.

It also demonstrates how much the quality control on traditional media sources has deteriorated, given the blatant missing word in the opening sentence ("how").

[wilson]

It also demonstrates how much the quality control on traditional media sources has deteriorated, given the blatant missing word in the opening sentence ("how").Good catch, but to be honest, this is about like breathlessly reporting that the sun came up this morning. The written word is in shambles these days.

[ACniner]

I didn't read every comment, so forgive me if this a reposting of someone else's thoughts on the matter. In my opinion, the failure Carolina recently is due to several things. For one, some of the recruits have simply not panned out, or they have taken longer to develop. UNC's system is heavily reliant on the PG position, and Drew has not cut it. Secondly, I believe Roy is terrible as an X's and O's guy. Coach K is sophisticated enough to not try to run the same offense year to year. Last year he adjusted to the personnel he had, and it paid off. Roy is also notorious at making massive subs. Now granted, I remember Coach K pulling starters to make a point, but for the most part he allows guys to fight through adversity. Coach K focuses on teaching points rather than on the court punishment in the middle of games like Roy does.

[OldPhiKap]

What does everyone think are UNC's chances of making the NCAAs this year?
And how many years of mediocre results would it take for Ol Roy to actually get axed or step down? Although I am enjoying watching him flounder around without a clue.

They will make the NCAA's. (Well, the NCAA owns the NIT but that's not what I mean).

Roy would retire out of frustration before it ever came to that point. Unfortunately, the reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated. K went through a similar period several years ago as well. The difference, of course, is that our fans were not acting like UNC's fans are acting now. Must be something about "The Carolina Way" or something.

[MChambers]

They will make the NCAA's. (Well, the NCAA owns the NIT but that's not what I mean).

Roy would retire out of frustration before it ever came to that point. Unfortunately, the reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated. K went through a similar period several years ago as well. The difference, of course, is that our fans were not acting like UNC's fans are acting now. Must be something about "The Carolina Way" or something.
Right. Duke fans (well, some of them) just whined about him coaching the Olympic team. Hey, maybe Roy should take over as Olympic coach when K's done. Think of the quotes we'd get then!

[CDu]

What does everyone think are UNC's chances of making the NCAAs this year?
And how many years of mediocre results would it take for Ol Roy to actually get axed or step down? Although I am enjoying watching him flounder around without a clue.

I think there's very little chance that UNC misses the NCAA Tourney this year. And I don't even think it will be because the field is expanded this year. UNC's win over Kentucky looks pretty good, and the mediocrity of the ACC means they'll likely rack up 10-11 wins in conference. That combination should easily be enough to get them in.

I think it would take several years like last year for Williams to even consider stepping down, and I don't think there's much threat of him being fired in the foreseeable future. He coached the team to two national championships, and that gives you a lot of wiggle room.

I also don't think this is going to be a long-term problem for Williams and UNC. I think he's had some miscalculations on some recruits in back-to-back years combined with some unexpected transfers, and I don't think he's been able to adjust yet. I won't count on him being suddenly out of touch when he had two decades of consistent success immediately preceeding these struggles.

That said, I certainly wouldn't mind if he really was just suddenly completely out of touch. :)

[A-Tex Devil]

While I love a good bit of schadenfreude, and Sunday night's game, in a vacuum, certainly is that, let's not forget that if we spit the bit tonight, we are looking up at this Tar Heel team that is supposedly in turmoil.

[sdotbarbee]

One department where unc is not having problems is getting the foul call. Zeller flops more than any 7 footer I have ever seen and he always gets a charge called on the offensive player.

http://www.packsmack.com/InfamousACCIndexCard/

[weezie]

Zeller flops more than any 7 footer I have ever seen and he always gets a charge called on the offensive player.


Agreed. All that natural grace and balletic movement contributes to his outstanding acting ability. And the tiny noggin.

[nocilla]

One department where unc is not having problems is getting the foul call. Zeller flops more than any 7 footer I have ever seen and he always gets a charge called on the offensive player.

http://www.packsmack.com/InfamousACCIndexCard/

Can you explain the index card a little? So 'fouls' is the number of fouls called on opponents? And the 'margin' would be opponents fouls compared to your team's fouls?

[sdotbarbee]

Can you explain the index card a little? So 'fouls' is the number of fouls called on opponents? And the 'margin' would be opponents fouls compared to your team's fouls?

No fouls are the number of fouls that team has had called on them so far this year. Take unc they have only had 60 fouls called on them in ACC play and the margin is -23, which means their opponents have been called for 23 more fouls. Duke on the other hand has been called for 93 fouls and our opponents have been called for 2 less fouls. I normally just look at the free throw margin where unc is +52 and Duke is -12, so unc has taken 52 more free throws then their opponents and Duke has taken 12 less then theirs.

[davekay1971]

UNC has had the frustrating ability (so far) to pull out close wins in the ACC. They could have easily lost at UVa, home vs Va Tech, and home vs Clemson...but they didn't. The next 6 games are critical to them. The only game I see as a pretty sure win for them is home vs. NCSU. The rest of their games (except at Cameron, of course) are winnable, but none looks anything like a lock to me. If UNC goes through that stretch 4-2, they should be confident about finishing in the upper tier of the ACC and making the NCAAT. 2-4, however, and they are going to be very shaky heading into a tougher 2nd half of the ACC season.

[CLT Devil]

No fouls are the number of fouls that team has had called on them so far this year. Take unc they have only had 60 fouls called on them in ACC play and the margin is -23, which means their opponents have been called for 23 more fouls. Duke on the other hand has been called for 93 fouls and our opponents have been called for 2 less fouls. I normally just look at the free throw margin where unc is +52 and Duke is -12, so unc has taken 52 more free throws then their opponents and Duke has taken 12 less then theirs.

It's nice to see that Packman has kept up his "infamous" stat line even though his show is gone.

Being from Charlotte as well, I can never remember a time when a columnist has been overly critical of the UNC BBall program, even when 'Doh was in chanrge. Sorenson might be the wittiest person on the sports staff and he usually is pretty good at undressing someone if they deserve it. I think he was a little easy on 'Roy, as he could have gone back to last year and dug up plenty more quotes, from his Radio show and pressers, to show a pattern or trend that the man is cracking under the weight of the Carolina Faithful's lofty expectations.

I have plenty of friends who went there, and plenty more friends/family who did not but are huge fans and I can tell you that nobody is harder on their own team/coach/players than UNC fans, with the exception maybe being a Cowboys fan. I was one of the few people on this board that thought the Olympics was a great idea and that K knows what he is doing...and thus got summarily dismissed on the boards for not knowing what I was talking about by a few posters. I think the same can be said of Roy, in that people do not know what is going on behind the scenes, and his motivations for playing certain payers or types of offenses and defenses.

That being said - Roy needs to realize that people do invest a significant amount of time and money and energy into 'Fanhood' and that he needs to treat them with a little more tact (I think that's the word I am looking for.) For a man that has two Natty Champ titles in 6 years (8 years up to current time) he needs to have a little thicker skin. I think K got a little crabby in the mid 90's and had a call-in radio show that he eventually dropped in favor of his new satellite show. It's not like Ol Roy is being cornered in a press conference after a big loss (we all know how that went with the Bonnie Bernstein incident) but in fact he is getting paid somewhere around 400K to show up and answer questions.

I can understand the frustration of Roy when UNC fans try to micromanage the game by calling in and giving suggestions, what I can't understand is why he has not dropped the show after last year, and why he can't be more diplomatic or political in his answers. Resentment is one of the worst character flaws one can have and it appears that he resents his own fans, and last year his own team.:eek:

[nocilla]

UNC has had the frustrating ability (so far) to pull out close wins in the ACC. They could have easily lost at UVa, home vs Va Tech, and home vs Clemson...but they didn't. The next 6 games are critical to them. The only game I see as a pretty sure win for them is home vs. NCSU. The rest of their games (except at Cameron, of course) are winnable, but none looks anything like a lock to me. If UNC goes through that stretch 4-2, they should be confident about finishing in the upper tier of the ACC and making the NCAAT. 2-4, however, and they are going to be very shaky heading into a tougher 2nd half of the ACC season.

I agree that their next 6 games are critical. But I viewed it as UNC's opponents have had a frustrating ability to lose close games. Part of that is just them not being very good; Clemson, UVA. Or not very deep and running out of gas; VT, UVA. Maybe I am not giving VT, UVA, and Clemson enough credit, but I want to wait and see how UNC does against better competition (BC, FSU, Maryland) before giving them to much credit.

[sdotbarbee]

I agree that their next 6 games are critical. But I viewed it as UNC's opponents have had a frustrating ability to lose close games. Part of that is just them not being very good; Clemson, UVA. Or not very deep and running out of gas; VT, UVA. Maybe I am not giving VT, UVA, and Clemson enough credit, but I want to wait and see how UNC does against better competition (BC, FSU, Maryland) before giving them to much credit.

Well unc also had a little help from the refs in the VT game, the charge called on Allen when Zeller was under the basket was a 6 point swing with 1:30 left in the game. There were also some questionable calls in the Clemson game but not to the extent of the VT game.

[davekay1971]

Can't really believe the Charlotte Observer is saying something critical about unc basketball.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/tom_talks/2011/01/ol-roy-ought-to-suck-it-up-and-stop-whining.html

I have no sympathy for Roy on this one. He's acting like an egotistical prima donna getting peeved at UNC fans for questioning some of his decisions and suggesting ideas. I recognize that he's a very successful coach and knows more about basketball than most of his fans ever will, but so what?

I'm a cardiologist. I went through four years of medical school and seven years of training after medical school to become a cardiologist. I'm pretty good at what I do and I probably know more about cardiovascular health than do most of my patients. But patients come into my clinic every day asking questions: have I seen this article, have I heard about this new medicine, have I considered x instead of y for their blood pressure, etc. Some questions are great, some are the product of misunderstanding or lack of knowledge, but answering those questions with respect, understanding, and clarity is part of my job. My patients have a significant vested interest in the issue at hand (their health) and it's my job to make sure they understand what I'm recommending, what I'm not recommending, and why. I don't get offended when someone says, "gee doc, my cholesterol still isn't under great control, have you thought about trying me on Zetia?" Yeah, I've probably thought of it, and there's a reason why I haven't put them on it, but it's not an insult to me for them to ask, and they sure as heck deserve a reasonable answer (dadgummit).

Roy has to answer questions from fans for 1 hour a week, and gets paid more than my annual salary to do it. Suck it up Roy. You're an expert in your field, and interested amateurs are asking you questions about the decisions you're making. Answer them respectfully, you egotistical jerk.

[OldPhiKap]

I have no sympathy for Roy on this one. He's acting like an egotistical prima donna getting peeved at UNC fans for questioning some of his decisions and suggesting ideas. I recognize that he's a very successful coach and knows more about basketball than most of his fans ever will, but so what?

I'm a cardiologist. I went through four years of medical school and seven years of training after medical school to become a cardiologist. I'm pretty good at what I do and I probably know more about cardiovascular health than do most of my patients. But patients come into my clinic every day asking questions: have I seen this article, have I heard about this new medicine, have I considered x instead of y for their blood pressure, etc. Some questions are great, some are the product of misunderstanding or lack of knowledge, but answering those questions with respect, understanding, and clarity is part of my job. My patients have a significant vested interest in the issue at hand (their health) and it's my job to make sure they understand what I'm recommending, what I'm not recommending, and why. I don't get offended when someone says, "gee doc, my cholesterol still isn't under great control, have you thought about trying me on Zetia?" Yeah, I've probably thought of it, and there's a reason why I haven't put them on it, but it's not an insult to me for them to ask, and they sure as heck deserve a reasonable answer (dadgummit).

Roy has to answer questions from fans for 1 hour a week, and gets paid more than my annual salary to do it. Suck it up Roy. You're an expert in your field, and interested amateurs are asking you questions about the decisions you're making. Answer them respectfully, you egotistical jerk.

They should use this post in business writing courses, about how to build to a simple clear point. Right on.

[davekay1971]

They should use this post in business writing courses, about how to build to a simple clear point. Right on.

UWC, baby. UWC.

And thank you!

[sdotbarbee]

Can you explain the index card a little? So 'fouls' is the number of fouls called on opponents? And the 'margin' would be opponents fouls compared to your team's fouls?

The best way to look at it is last year plus the games that have been played this year in the ACC unc's opponents have been called for 81 more fouls then the heels, and in that same time span Duke's opponents have been called for 4 more fouls. I am not a math major but to me that is a huge discrepancy.

[BD80]

The best way to look at it is last year plus the games that have been played this year in the ACC unc's opponents have been called for 81 more fouls then the heels, and in that same time span Duke's opponents have been called for 4 more fouls. I am not a math major but to me that is a huge discrepancy.

Not really. That's about 4 fouls per game. The heels have a substantial size advantage over the league, which generally means they will get fouled more. Also, particularly last year, the heels' big men avoid contact, so they don't foul so much.

Last year, we had young Plumlees picking up fouls like they were loose $20 bills on the sidewalk, and Z who early in the year was still being called for breathing heavily on opponents.

[ClosetHurleyFan]

I have no sympathy for Roy on this one. He's acting like an egotistical prima donna getting peeved at UNC fans for questioning some of his decisions and suggesting ideas. I recognize that he's a very successful coach and knows more about basketball than most of his fans ever will, but so what?

I'm a cardiologist. I went through four years of medical school and seven years of training after medical school to become a cardiologist. I'm pretty good at what I do and I probably know more about cardiovascular health than do most of my patients. But patients come into my clinic every day asking questions: have I seen this article, have I heard about this new medicine, have I considered x instead of y for their blood pressure, etc. Some questions are great, some are the product of misunderstanding or lack of knowledge, but answering those questions with respect, understanding, and clarity is part of my job. My patients have a significant vested interest in the issue at hand (their health) and it's my job to make sure they understand what I'm recommending, what I'm not recommending, and why. I don't get offended when someone says, "gee doc, my cholesterol still isn't under great control, have you thought about trying me on Zetia?" Yeah, I've probably thought of it, and there's a reason why I haven't put them on it, but it's not an insult to me for them to ask, and they sure as heck deserve a reasonable answer (dadgummit).

Roy has to answer questions from fans for 1 hour a week, and gets paid more than my annual salary to do it. Suck it up Roy. You're an expert in your field, and interested amateurs are asking you questions about the decisions you're making. Answer them respectfully, you egotistical jerk.

What a great post. You have my full respect!

[sdotbarbee]

Not really. That's about 4 fouls per game. The heels have a substantial size advantage over the league, which generally means they will get fouled more. Also, particularly last year, the heels' big men avoid contact, so they don't foul so much.

Last year, we had young Plumlees picking up fouls like they were loose $20 bills on the sidewalk, and Z who early in the year was still being called for breathing heavily on opponents.

Wow really I am sorry 3.9 fouls per game. Well unc had young Wears, young Henson, and young Davis so having young bigs should produce more fouls, like you said the Plumlees. They didn't have a big enough size advantage on anyone that constitutes their opponents fouling them 58 more times and they only committed 255 fouls in league play last year? Come on not with all of the young players they had on that team, I am saying unc gets too many calls even when they have a terrible year.

[oldnavy]

I have no sympathy for Roy on this one. He's acting like an egotistical prima donna getting peeved at UNC fans for questioning some of his decisions and suggesting ideas. I recognize that he's a very successful coach and knows more about basketball than most of his fans ever will, but so what?

I'm a cardiologist. I went through four years of medical school and seven years of training after medical school to become a cardiologist. I'm pretty good at what I do and I probably know more about cardiovascular health than do most of my patients. But patients come into my clinic every day asking questions: have I seen this article, have I heard about this new medicine, have I considered x instead of y for their blood pressure, etc. Some questions are great, some are the product of misunderstanding or lack of knowledge, but answering those questions with respect, understanding, and clarity is part of my job. My patients have a significant vested interest in the issue at hand (their health) and it's my job to make sure they understand what I'm recommending, what I'm not recommending, and why. I don't get offended when someone says, "gee doc, my cholesterol still isn't under great control, have you thought about trying me on Zetia?" Yeah, I've probably thought of it, and there's a reason why I haven't put them on it, but it's not an insult to me for them to ask, and they sure as heck deserve a reasonable answer (dadgummit).

Roy has to answer questions from fans for 1 hour a week, and gets paid more than my annual salary to do it. Suck it up Roy. You're an expert in your field, and interested amateurs are asking you questions about the decisions you're making. Answer them respectfully, you egotistical jerk.

Totally agree. And I can relate to your situation in my job as a pharmacist. Sometimes I get asked some really "interesting" questions. I certainly do not insult the patient for asking...

I just had a very similar converstation with my wife after reading the article. My first reaction was why do the stupid show if he hates it so much, then my next reaction was, well if you are doing it for the money then, relax and humor the fans. Why not have some fun with it, you have to expect that they are going to ask these types of questions. But, Roy seems to be unable to handle ANY type criticism even if it is phrased as a question.

I just get the sense that Roy doesn't like UNC fans... going all the way back to the comment while at KU... and you are dead on he is an Egotistical Jerk in addition to being a fake.

[moonpie23]

i don't think that the unc faithful thought that the AP poll for the 3rd week in Jan would be:

Others receiving votes: Cincinnati 85, Arizona 68, West Virginia 62, Saint Mary's 55, Utah State 53, Georgia 23, Xavier 12, Memphis 11, Virginia Tech 8, Temple 7, Missouri State 6, UNLV 4, Tennessee 3, Virginia Commonwealth 2, Baylor 2, Coastal Carolina 2, Duquesne 1, Belmont 1, Penn State 1, Harvard 1
Dropped from rankings: West Virginia 21, Saint Mary's 22, Cincinnati 25

[JasonEvans]

i don't think that the unc faithful thought that the AP poll for the 3rd week in Jan would be:

Others receiving votes: Cincinnati 85, Arizona 68, West Virginia 62, Saint Mary's 55, Utah State 53, Georgia 23, Xavier 12, Memphis 11, Virginia Tech 8, Temple 7, Missouri State 6, UNLV 4, Tennessee 3, Virginia Commonwealth 2, Baylor 2, Coastal Carolina 2, Duquesne 1, Belmont 1, Penn State 1, Harvard 1


With the exception of Arizona, WVa, and Memphis, I think it is a pretty safe bet that the total combined McDonald's All-Americans on all those teams mentioned above is not more than 2 or 3.

UNC gets that many Mickie Dees in a single class.

-Jason "props to Tommy A for what Harvard is doing this year!" Evans

[DukeBlueHeart4]

i don't think that the unc faithful thought that the AP poll for the 3rd week in Jan would be:

Others receiving votes: Cincinnati 85, Arizona 68, West VA62, Saint Mary's 55, Utah State 53, Georgia 23, Xavier 12, Memphis 11, Virginia Tech 8, Temple 7, Missouri State 6, UNLV 4, Tennessee 3, Virginia Commonwealth 2, Baylor 2, Coastal Carolina 2, Duquesne 1, Belmont 1, Penn State 1, Harvard 1
Dropped from rankings: West Virginia 21, Saint Mary's 22, Cincinnati 25



I just saw Coastal Carolina play at Gardner Webb. I have to admit that I was a little impressed with them.

[kong123]

From the call in show last night.

"Hey Coach. I just wanted to clarify something. I was one of the callers last week that you lambasted on your postgame show for criticizing your team. I wasn’t criticizing your team; I was more criticizing you and giving you my opinion on who I thought should be in the starting rotation. But I thought it was very uncharacteristic for you to act that way in the postgame press conference."

“Alright, I have no problem with that, Larry… I’m naive. You’ve got to understand this. I’m naïve as all get out. I’m corny as all get out. I think North Carolina fans ought to cheer for North Carolina people and not criticize. I was just crushed when T.J. Yates’s picture went up in the Smith Center and they booed that kid. I didn’t like that. And the thing is, I thought last week I sat here and took it very well. No one knows our team like our coaching staff. No one. If Dean Smith were to come in and watch practice every day, he wouldn’t know my team as well as I know the team.

“Whether it was uncharacteristic or not for me to do that, everybody has got to realize that I’m human. That if you say something that upsets me and that I don’t think is fair, then I’ll try to swallow it for 24 hours and then somebody said something at the press conference.. Do I wish that I would have just let it go and not said a word? You’re darn right I do. I wish I had not said one word. I wish that I would have just kept swallowing it. I hate that I said that. What I hate even more is that I categorized people when I said fans, because our fans don’t upset me. My gosh, the fans in the Smith Center this year have been unbelievable. They’ve helped us in games. North Carolina fans have just been phenomenal.

“But it is, and people have just got to accept it, I’m not perfect. Never will be and never have been. But if somebody says something that is not fair… Somebody told me Mack Brown used to say, ‘Well, how many times have you been to practice?’ But was I wrong, Larry? You’re darn right I was wrong. I shouldn’t have said it because it came out that I was criticizing fans.”

[stillcrazie]

I think North Carolina fans ought to cheer for North Carolina people and not criticize. I was just crushed when T.J. Yates’s picture went up in the Smith Center and they booed that kid. I didn’t like that. And the thing is, I thought last week I sat here and took it very well. No one knows our team like our coaching staff. No one. If Dean Smith were to come in and watch practice every day, he wouldn’t know my team as well as I know the team.

“our fans don’t upset me. My gosh, the fans in the Smith Center this year have been unbelievable. They’ve helped us in games. North Carolina fans have just been phenomenal.

“But if somebody says something that is not fair… Somebody told me Mack Brown used to say, ‘Well, how many times have you been to practice?’ But was I wrong, Larry? You’re darn right I was wrong. I shouldn’t have said it because it came out that I was criticizing fans.”

I'm confused. The first quote sounds like he is criticizing fans. The second quote sounds like he would never criticize fans. The third quote sounds like he is criticizing fans again for being critical, while admitting he was wrong for being critical of fans. Maybe I am just naiive, but dadgummit I cannot tell what he is trying to say.

[CDu]

I'm confused. The first quote sounds like he is criticizing fans. The second quote sounds like he would never criticize fans. The third quote sounds like he is criticizing fans again for being critical, while admitting he was wrong for being critical of fans. Maybe I am just naiive, but dadgummit I cannot tell what he is trying to say.

I didn't find it at all confusing. He's trying to say that he shouldn't have lashed out, but that fans should show better judgment and try to be less critical of him and the UNC team. That the fans in general are great, and he's sorry he's not perfect. He feels bad for lumping all Carolina fans together when he was really just frustrated by those who he felt were being too critical of the UNC program. And he's tired of fans who don't know the whole story criticizing him and the team.

This is definitely a case where both sides are partly in the wrong. There are certainly some fans who are overly critical. At the same time, Williams is certainly thin-skinned and impatient at times with any discussion of why things aren't necessarily going well.

[weezie]

From the call in show last night.

"… I’m naive. You’ve got to understand this. I’m naïve as all get out. I’m corny as all get out..."

:D:D:D Oh roy! You certainly are some kind of a corny nut, ain'tcha?!

Methinks the royboy protests too much. He's mad as hell and seething with crankiness.
What a boob.

[Starter]

I actually thought it was kind of a good response. He took some accountability for losing his temper a bit. I mean, it's better if he just, you know, doesn't lose his temper. Roy says some pretty ridiculous stuff on a regular basis when his emotions get the best of him. But I thought what he said was very fair. Thanks for posting his comments.

[CDu]

I actually thought it was kind of a good response. He took some accountability for losing his temper a bit. I mean, it's better if he just, you know, doesn't lose his temper. Roy says some pretty ridiculous stuff on a regular basis when his emotions get the best of him. But I thought what he said was very fair. Thanks for posting his comments.

Agreed completely. I didn't see anything wrong with his comments. He was honest about feeling like people are too critical of his program, but apologetic about losing his temper and lashing out. And he was honest that he tries not to lose his cool, but sometimes he will.

[Kdogg]

i don't think that the unc faithful thought that the AP poll for the 3rd week in Jan would be:

Others receiving votes: Cincinnati 85, Arizona 68, West Virginia 62, Saint Mary's 55, Utah State 53, Georgia 23, Xavier 12, Memphis 11, Virginia Tech 8, Temple 7, Missouri State 6, UNLV 4, Tennessee 3, Virginia Commonwealth 2, Baylor 2, Coastal Carolina 2, Duquesne 1, Belmont 1, Penn State 1, Harvard 1
Dropped from rankings: West Virginia 21, Saint Mary's 22, Cincinnati 25

Havard is the biggest shock there. Good job Tommy. Coastal got votes last year (from John Feinstein no less). They are having a really good season and were a win away from the NCAA last year.

[BD80]

… I’m naïve. You’ve got to understand this. I’m naïve as all get out. I’m corny as all get out. ...

This is the disingenuous dissembling that drives me bonkers!

How on earth can ol' roy earn any props for "honesty" while maintaining his "good ol' boy" facade?????

roy williams is as much of a silk bespoke suit, corporate shark as any coach in the country! He is NOT naïve, he is anything but!

This wasn't heat of the moment anger he experienced, he had tolerated it the WEEK before. He claims it was something that happened 24 hours earlier that he was stewing on that was the source of his angst. If his outburst wasn't premeditated, he has serious anger issues and shouldn't be in charge of kids.

I can see the new criminal defense tactic in North Carolina, the "ol' roy reaction:"

"He provoked me into killing him. Well, not right away, but I thought about for 24 hours, and then I just couldn't keep it in any longer!"

[WiJoe]

I'm confused. The first quote sounds like he is criticizing fans. The second quote sounds like he would never criticize fans. The third quote sounds like he is criticizing fans again for being critical, while admitting he was wrong for being critical of fans. Maybe I am just naiive, but dadgummit I cannot tell what he is trying to say.


You have summed it up perfectly.

[weezie]

roy williams is as much of a silk bespoke suit, corporate shark as any coach in the country! He is NOT naïve, he is anything but!


But he IS corny, right?! Isn't he?:rolleyes:

[oldnavy]

Once again Roy has to make an excuse for himself and his uncontrollable mouth. I guess no one knows that Roy is human, so he feels compelled to explain that first. I guess no one knows that Roy is not perfect, so he must explain that to us as well.

Why not just say, "I should not have said what I said, and that I am sorry" and leave it at that??? What's with the lame excuses again??

Roy once again tries to play off his gaffs with his tired of stick of "I'm just a naive ol country boy who is fighting for his players honor"... meanwhile he is the quickest of all to call a player out by name....

It is all about "the Roy" in his mind....

[striker219]

Gravity, evidently.

[OldPhiKap]

Gravity, evidently.

Gives "turbulence" a new meaning.

[wilson]

Gives "turbulence" a new meaning.*Straining against urge to make terribly tasteless joke about unc's season crashing and burning...*

[OldPhiKap]

*Straining against urge to make terribly tasteless joke about unc's season crashing and burning...*

Definitely won't say anything about it being in a tail spin, THAT's for sure.

[Bluedevil114]

UNC is so stagnant on offense. They run no sets and just pass the ball around with little movement and jack a three. Barnes looks like a hero as he scores the last five points for UNC. They are really a joke and it is laughable that they get so excited after trailing in all of their conference games this season many late in the second half.

[ncexnyc]

UNC is so stagnant on offense. They run no sets and just pass the ball around with little movement and jack a three. Barnes looks like a hero as he scores the last five points for UNC. They are really a joke and it is laughable that they get so excited after trailing in all of their conference games this season many late in the second half.
Let me clue you in, they've only lost 1 conference game. As to your comment about Barnes looking like a hero, well here's another news flash for you, this is the second game he's done something like this for the heels, I'd say he's well on his way to becoming a hero.
I'm not sure what sports you've ever played in your life, but I can tell you from personal experience, that a large part of a winning team isn't just talent, it's also confidence. These young heels are continuing to win and despite however ugly it may appear to us they are believing in themselves.

[SSage23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8em1phXCrU4
sick video for this season: lets win another baby!!!

[OldPhiKap]

Carolina is young but continuing to improve. I will be surprised if they are not ranked in the top 25 before the end of the year.

They are a long way from world-beaters, but IF they stay healthy they will be a problem for some teams down the road.

Wish it were different, but it ain't.


9F.

[Duvall]

Let me clue you in, they've only lost 1 conference game. As to your comment about Barnes looking like a hero, well here's another news flash for you, this is the second game he's done something like this for the heels, I'd say he's well on his way to becoming a hero.
I'm not sure what sports you've ever played in your life, but I can tell you from personal experience, that a large part of a winning team isn't just talent, it's also confidence. These young heels are continuing to win and despite however ugly it may appear to us they are believing in themselves.

They're a team on its way to a 10-6 conference mark that has yet to face the tough part of their schedule. If they were better than that, they'd play better than that.

[dukelifer]

They're a team on its way to a 10-6 conference mark that has yet to face the tough part of their schedule. If they were better than that, they'd play better than that.

This team could be better than that. I am not sure who I trust in the league to beat them other than Duke.

[jv001]

This team could be better than that. I am not sure who I trust in the league to beat them other than Duke.

With the ACC being so weak this year, unc will probably finish 2nd. Not that they're that good, but the ACC is so bad. In most years, unc would finish in the middle of the pack or lower. Go Duke!

[DukeWarhead]

Yeah, I was hoping for another season of schadenfraude at Carolina's expense. The GaTech beat-down sure had me hopeful. But they keep eeking out these conference wins, and will end up toward the top of the conference -- and pesky --- and maybe even dangerous. Damn. I want Kris Lang back.

[UrinalCake]

Man, Miami had a real chance at winning but couldn't get it done. In the last minute or so,

- Barnes hits a tough step-back jumper, while being pretty well-defended, to tie the game
- Miami goes into Reggie Johnson, who attempts a fall-away hook shot over Zeller instead of going at him and at least drawing a foul.
- UNC dribbles around and has no clue what they're doing so Roy calls a time out.
- UNC almost turns the ball over but the ball ends up in Barnes' hands, and he calmly sinks a three with maybe a second left on the shot clock
- Miami misses a three on a so-so look

Is it just me or does it seem like UNC's opponents always give them the game, or that UNC receives some stroke of good luck that allows them to win? Maybe I'm just really biased, and maybe the same thing happens to us too. Miami should have done more with their second-to-last possession, and UNC getting that open three was a real bummer. Give credit to Barnes for hitting those two shots though.

[miramar]

I'm not sure how a nail biter that came down to the last ten seconds could be so boring, but it was. I was looking at two very average teams that really don't defend or run a half court offense very well, but I guess somebody has to win. Miami can't defend inside or pass the ball, and UNC left the three open all night.

The strangest thing was to look at the scoreboard with about 1:30 left and to see that all 5 Miami guys were in double figures (a lot of that done by launching threes), but for UNC only Strickland was (12 points!).

Barney watch: #40 really did nothing for most of the game, but he came alive at the end of each half and scored two big buckets both times, finishing with 13. What surprised me was that he looks pretty small for a #3, and also that he really didn't seem to have great skills (although he certainly seems to be a clutch shooter). It's only one game, but I didn't see a great handle, or passing ability, or defense, or leaping or anything else.

Even the way they got to Barney's big shot was strange. There were less than 10 seconds' difference between the shot clock and the game clock, and Carolina was looking to run some clock. But Roy had to call time with 7 seconds on the shot clock because they still had the ball near mid court and didn't seem to be looking to drive or take the shot. On the inbounds they moved the ball around and Barney took a desperation shot that won the game for them, so he basically bailed out their guards on that particular play.

[Bluedevil114]

Let me clue you in, they've only lost 1 conference game. As to your comment about Barnes looking like a hero, well here's another news flash for you, this is the second game he's done something like this for the heels, I'd say he's well on his way to becoming a hero.
I'm not sure what sports you've ever played in your life, but I can tell you from personal experience, that a large part of a winning team isn't just talent, it's also confidence. These young heels are continuing to win and despite however ugly it may appear to us they are believing in themselves.

Thanks for the clue and news flash. UNC has won four conference games against teams that have a combined record of 9-14. UNC has yet to impress in one of their wins. Total point differencial in their five game is 3 points. If you are comparing this team to last year then I agree this UNC could beat last years UNC team by a couple points. You came at me with a personal attack instead of giving any insight. If you are going to quote me then simply give a reasonable arguement. UNC will lose three of their next four games and then we will see how much confidence they have. They will be 5-4 heading into the @Clemson game which also will not be easy for them.

[OldPhiKap]

UNC will lose three of their next four games and then we will see how much confidence they have. They will be 5-4 heading into the @Clemson game which also will not be easy for them.

From your keyboard to God's email. But not betting on that.

Hope I'm wrong.

[ncexnyc]

I just hope come the morning of March 6th, some of you won’t be
experiencing the same fate as Admiral Motti. In case you’ve forgotten who he is, let me refresh your memory.


MOTTI
Any attack made by the Rebels against
this station would be a useless
gesture, no matter what technical
data they've obtained. This station
is now the ultimate power in the
universe. I suggest we use it!

VADER
Don't be too proud of this
technological terror you've
constructed. The ability to destroy
a planet is insignificant next to
the power of the Force.

MOTTI
Don't try to frighten us with your
sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your
sad devotion to that ancient religion
has not helped you conjure up the
stolen data tapes, or given you
clairvoyance enough to find the
Rebel's hidden fort...

Suddenly Motti chokes and starts to turn blue under Vader's
spell.

VADER
I find your lack of faith disturbing.

I feel way to many of you have been seduced by the dark side of the force and have let your hatred of Barnes cloud both your vision and judgment. I could be wrong, but I get the strange feeling that he is going to break our collective heart in one of our games with the heels this year. Some of you may end up choking on your own words instead of the power of the Force.

[Duvall]

I feel way to many of you have been seduced by the dark side of the force and have let your hatred of Barnes cloud both your vision and judgment. I could be wrong, but I get the strange feeling that he is going to break our collective heart in one of our games with the heels this year. Some of you may end up choking on your own words instead of the power of the Force.

If Duke loses to UNC this year, it will be due to the efforts of one of the UNC players that is actually good.

[ncexnyc]

Thanks for the clue and news flash. UNC has won four conference games against teams that have a combined record of 9-14. UNC has yet to impress in one of their wins. Total point differencial in their five game is 3 points. If you are comparing this team to last year then I agree this UNC could beat last years UNC team by a couple points. You came at me with a personal attack instead of giving any insight. If you are going to quote me then simply give a reasonable arguement. UNC will lose three of their next four games and then we will see how much confidence they have. They will be 5-4 heading into the @Clemson game which also will not be easy for them.


"They are really a joke and it is laughable that they get so excited after trailing in all of their conference games this season many late in the second half." I'm not sure how this was very insightful on your part, but I'll play along.
We've played 6 ACC games and have a 5-1 record. Our opponent's sport a combined 12-20 record. That's not exactly what I would call Murderer's Row, granted we've played FSU and they haven't.
They've played 5 ACC games and have a 4-1 record. Their opposition has a combined 11-17 record. No they haven't played FSU, but they have played two conference teams which do have a .500 conference record.
I honestly don't see what you find so laughable about what that team has done so far this year. Maybe you can provide me with some more of your insightful analysis.

[billyj]

I think their win at Miami is pretty impressive. It shows that team is making progress. The 2009-2010 would have folded trailing 14 pts in the first half. I'd be careful when we play them so we don't get embarrassed.

[UrinalCake]

I honestly don't see what you find so laughable about what that team has done so far this year. Maybe you can provide me with some more of your insightful analysis.

Well just to play devil's advocate here, their average margin of victory in their four ACC wins is 5.5 points; ours is 14. But what really differentiates our records is their blowout loss to Georgia Tech. GT did go on to beat VT and is 3-3, so maybe they're not horrible. It remains to be seen whether that loss was simply a bad night for Carolina or an indicator of things to come.

[Duvall]

I think their win at Miami is pretty impressive. It shows that team is making progress. The 2009-2010 would have folded trailing 14 pts in the first half. I'd be careful when we play them so we don't get embarrassed.

I don't there's any question that UNC has improved from last year. But then again, last year's UNC team was pretty terrible.

[ncexnyc]

Well just to play devil's advocate here, their average margin of victory in their four ACC wins is 5.5 points; ours is 14. But what really differentiates our records is their blowout loss to Georgia Tech. GT did go on to beat VT and is 3-3, so maybe they're not horrible. It remains to be seen whether that loss was simply a bad night for Carolina or an indicator of things to come.

I can't argue with those numbers, but what I'm seeing is a young team that is winning the very same type of games it lost last year. These ugly come from behind wins build confidence and as they improve as a team, once they do face some tougher competition they will believe that they can win no matter how far behind they may get.

[davekay1971]

I can't argue with those numbers, but what I'm seeing is a young team that is winning the very same type of games it lost last year.

This is quite true, and is either a sign that UNC is somewhat better than they were last year, or that the ACC is somewhat worse than it was last year. I think it's a combination of the two.

Our game at UNC is going to be a challenge, but the bottom line is that UNC is a mediocre team that will be pressed to make it to the 2nd weekend of the NCAA tournament (assuming they make it, which, at this point, I think will happen), but has too many glaring weaknesses to do anything more than that. As Duke fans, we're blessed that our team, by comparison, is rightfully in the discussion of legitimate contenders to win the national title.

That is to say, except for the fact that they're our rival and we like seeing them struggle, UNC remains, this season, Unranked...Nobody Cares.

[oldnavy]

Let me clue you in, they've only lost 1 conference game. As to your comment about Barnes looking like a hero, well here's another news flash for you, this is the second game he's done something like this for the heels, I'd say he's well on his way to becoming a hero.
I'm not sure what sports you've ever played in your life, but I can tell you from personal experience, that a large part of a winning team isn't just talent, it's also confidence. These young heels are continuing to win and despite however ugly it may appear to us they are believing in themselves.

UNC is playing better in 2011 than they did in 2010 which if you are UNC fan has to be encouraging. But they are struggling to win these games where in years past they would be 20+ point wins. They are not a typical UNC team. I do agree with ncexnyc that winning builds confidence, so that too is a positive. However they have the hard part of the schedule coming up so it will be interesting to see how they do as the competition stiffens.

As for the comment about hating HB, I for one have been on record for saying that I think HB had way too much hype and the pressure was unfair for him, I do not hate him at all. But to think that he is going to emerge as some type of "hero" for this team is a little much. He is still playing what amounts to a pedestrian style of game, where his offense is essentially shooting jump shots. He is leading the team in minutes, but is dead last in FG% @ 37% and he also leads the team in turnovers which is pretty impressive on a team with Marshall and LDII as the primary ball handlers. His 12 points per game and 5 rebounds may get him on the All ACC freshman team, but that will be about it, so "hero"..... not unless he pulls a kid out of a burning building....

[Kfanarmy]

They're a team on its way to a 10-6 conference mark that has yet to face the tough part of their schedule. If they were better than that, they'd play better than that.
Duke is in a very similar position. Lost to FSU, in the top of the ACC rankings, and beat 5 teams in the bottom, "yet to face the tough part of their schedule." Will be interesting over the next 3 weeks to see how the top half of the ACC shakes out.

[DukeWarhead]

I get the feeling that UNC will continue to scratch out wins in currently milquetoast ACC, and finish with about 4 losses in conf., good enough to be in the top three. After a run in the ACC tourney, Tarheel fans will be crowing about a final four surge. But once they hit the NCAA tourney, their days are numbered. While ACC teams might continue their pattern of ineptness against them, teams from other conferences won't and will take them to task in a big way. (That's what I really hoping for at least.)

BTW, I have no idea if that how you spell "milquetoast" - I just know it's not "milk toast".

[CharlestonDevil]

I feel way to many of you have been seduced by the dark side of the force and have let your hatred of Barnes cloud both your vision and judgment. I could be wrong, but I get the strange feeling that he is going to break our collective heart in one of our games with the heels this year. Some of you may end up choking on your own words instead of the power of the Force.

Sounds like someone in Chapel Hill knows how to do Jedi mind tricks if you really believe this. After all FEAR is the path to the Dark Side.

I know for a fact we will not lose to Carlina this year for one reason, Darth Harrison will be guarded by the one and only Luke Singler-walker, and we already know who wins that battle.

[gus]

BTW, I have no idea if that how you spell "milquetoast" - I just know it's not "milk toast".

That is how you spell it. And pronounce it.

When I was a kid I was a voracious reader, so had accumulated a lot of relatively obscure words like this one. Because they were rarely said in conversation, I had no real sense for how to pronounce them. I thought it was "mill kwuh toast". For the record, I think I learned the word from the Bloom County character.

[ncexnyc]

Sounds like someone in Chapel Hill knows how to do Jedi mind tricks if you really believe this. After all FEAR is the path to the Dark Side.

I know for a fact we will not lose to Carlina this year for one reason, Darth Harrison will be guarded by the one and only Luke Singler-walker, and we already know who wins that battle.

LOL, excellent post. :D

[airowe]

I feel way to many of you have been seduced by the dark side of the force and have let your hatred of Barnes cloud both your vision and judgment. I could be wrong, but I get the strange feeling that he is going to break our collective heart in one of our games with the heels this year. Some of you may end up choking on your own words instead of the power of the Force.

I think it's about time you came out of the closet.

Care to explain who this is?

ncexnyc at IC (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&up=ncexnyc)

[ChicagoHeel]

This UNC team is your typical re-building year team- talented but young and therefore inconsistent. It is easy to forget that we start two freshman, two sophs, and one junior who has the game experience of a sophomore. Barnes' struggles are pretty normal for a freshman and mostly a product of bad decision-making, which with the occasional exception improves over time for all players. I don't see him failing in any way other than he's not a Kevin Durant/ John Wall that UNC fans so desperately wanted. He has hit big shots in three (of five) ACC games and in the Texas game- that cannot be discounted. Nor should the pressure on Barnes. I'm not talking about the national hype as much as from the UNC fan base which wanted nothing less than a savior that could erase the memory of a 5-11 ACC season.

Overall, I feel very encouraged b/c we have won two ACC road games, which is hard for a young team even in a down year for the ACC. I expect that we will drop a game or two that we should win and that hopefully those losses will be offset by an unexpected win or two- preferably on Feb. 9 and Mar. 5. I put the over/under for ACC wins at 11.

[moonpie23]

I could be wrong, but I get the strange feeling that he is going to break our collective heart in one of our games with the heels this year. Some of you may end up choking on your own words instead of the power of the Force.

OUR? really? i think you're a troll.....

[BD80]

I think it's about time you came out of the closet.

Care to explain who this is?

ncexnyc at IC (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&up=ncexnyc)

I'm not sure I want to see anyone with an IC connection come out of the closet, I envision an outfit reminiscent of "Rocky Horror Picture Show"

http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/1879308.jpg

[JasonEvans]

I think it's about time you came out of the closet.

Care to explain who this is?

ncexnyc at IC (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&up=ncexnyc)

C'mon, airowe! Don't you think it is possible that two completely different people -- one of whom happens to be a Duke fan and one of whom happens to be a Carolina fan -- chose the user name "ncexnyc"?

I have to tell you, when I was picking my DBR user name a decade or so ago, it was down to JasonEvans or ncexatl. It is just blind luck that I did not chose ncexatl.

--Jason "the mods have been aware of this for a little while -- let the little 'spy' have his fun" Evans

[ncexnyc]

If you're really interested in finding out which team I really pull for all you have to do is check my registration date at each site.:D

I'm also involved in the Yankees vs Red Sox rivalry as a baseball fan, but I can't take pot shots at Big PooPoo for his slow starts without acknowledging the same poor starts for Tex. It's called trying to be objective.

[OldPhiKap]

C'mon, airowe! Don't you think it is possible that two completely different people -- one of whom happens to be a Duke fan and one of whom happens to be a Carolina fan -- chose the user name "ncexnyc"?

I have to tell you, when I was picking my DBR user name a decade or so ago, it was down to JasonEvans or ncexatl. It is just blind luck that I did not chose ncexatl.

--Jason "the mods have been aware of this for a little while -- let the little 'spy' have his fun" Evans

He could be a double-agent. Or a spy gone rogue.

So much intrigue, so little time between phone calls to contemplate it.

[BD80]

C'mon, airowe! Don't you think it is possible that two completely different people -- one of whom happens to be a Duke fan and one of whom happens to be a Carolina fan -- chose the user name "ncexnyc"?

I have to tell you, when I was picking my DBR user name a decade or so ago, it was down to JasonEvans or ncexatl. It is just blind luck that I did not chose ncexatl.

--Jason "the mods have been aware of this for a little while -- let the little 'spy' have his fun" Evans

When I moved to Michigan from Sun City Kansas, I strongly considered "miexscks"

[Bluedevil114]

If you're really interested in finding out which team I really pull for all you have to do is check my registration date at each site.:D

I'm also involved in the Yankees vs Red Sox rivalry as a baseball fan, but I can't take pot shots at Big PooPoo for his slow starts without acknowledging the same poor starts for Tex. It's called trying to be objective.

It was pretty obvious who you rooted for with your irrelevant posts and snide comments. When you are on the IC boards spelling Duke wrong it is probably better for you to stay on that side. Many want to join the forum of the National Champions but many find out they are just not up to the task.

[WiJoe]

It was pretty obvious who you rooted for with your irrelevant posts and snide comments. When you are on the IC boards spelling Duke wrong it is probably better for you to stay on that side. Many want to join the forum of the National Champions but many find out they are just not up to the task.

Seconded.

Take kong with you.

:p

[moonpie23]

Seconded.

Take kong with you.



:p

nahh....leave kong.....he's ok...

[ncexnyc]

nahh....leave kong.....he's ok...
Trust no one.

[oldnavy]

I just hope come the morning of March 6th, some of you won’t be
experiencing the same fate as Admiral Motti. In case you’ve forgotten who he is, let me refresh your memory.


MOTTI
Any attack made by the Rebels against
this station would be a useless
gesture, no matter what technical
data they've obtained. This station
is now the ultimate power in the
universe. I suggest we use it!

VADER
Don't be too proud of this
technological terror you've
constructed. The ability to destroy
a planet is insignificant next to
the power of the Force.

MOTTI
Don't try to frighten us with your
sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your
sad devotion to that ancient religion
has not helped you conjure up the
stolen data tapes, or given you
clairvoyance enough to find the
Rebel's hidden fort...

Suddenly Motti chokes and starts to turn blue under Vader's
spell.

VADER
I find your lack of faith disturbing.

I feel way to many of you have been seduced by the dark side of the force and have let your hatred of Barnes cloud both your vision and judgment. I could be wrong, but I get the strange feeling that he is going to break our collective heart in one of our games with the heels this year. Some of you may end up choking on your own words instead of the power of the Force.
Wow do you go to those conventions where folks dress up like Star Wars characters?

Do you really think HB is going to lead UNC to a victory over Duke this year?? UNC may beat Duke this year, but there is nothing that HB has done up to this point to make any rational observer believe that he will perform well beyond anything he has done thus far against mostly weak teams in THE most pressure packed and intense rivalry in sports. No, he will be shell shocked and even more pedestrian than he has been in his 19 or ever how many games it will be at that as he has been in his point previous performances. Kyle or Ryan or whoever draws the assignment of guarding HB will be more than motivated to make him a non factor....

When are you coming out of the closet by the way? ala Kong123? It's ok you know to be a UNC fan, I realize that it may be a little embarassing, but we will still like you, just be yourself!

[moonpie23]

but we will still like you, just be yourself!


ehh.....not so much.

[duke09hms]

Wow do you go to those conventions where folks dress up like Star Wars characters?

Do you really think HB is going to lead UNC to a victory over Duke this year?? UNC may beat Duke this year, but there is nothing that HB has done up to this point to make any rational observer believe that he will perform well beyond anything he has done thus far against mostly weak teams in THE most pressure packed and intense rivalry in sports. No, he will be shell shocked and even more pedestrian than he has been in his 19 or ever how many games it will be at that as he has been in his point previous performances. Kyle or Ryan or whoever draws the assignment of guarding HB will be more than motivated to make him a non factor....

When are you coming out of the closet by the way? ala Kong123? It's ok you know to be a UNC fan, I realize that it may be a little embarassing, but we will still like you, just be yourself!

My goodness, I absolutely HATE posts like this. Can we not wait until we actually win even once over UNC before we start posting this stuff? Karma is a b----.

[oldnavy]

My goodness, I absolutely HATE posts like this. Can we not wait until we actually win even once over UNC before we start posting this stuff? Karma is a b----.

My bad, I should have not disrupted the karma forces. I will consult my weije board to see what I need to do to make ammends....

[oldnavy]

As much as I would love to see NCSU beat UNC today, I do not see it happening. NCSU is a schizophrenic team that will let UNC run over them for the 9th straight time today.

I will never forget the disappoint of last year after watching NCSU man handle us, then go to UNC and lay down for a butt whooping against that sorry bunch. How does that happen? UNC had their worst team in ages, NCSU had just played a great emotional game against us, essentially making us look bad in all aspects of the game, and then they lay such a big egg in the UNC game. No, I can no longer get my hopes up for NCSU.

So, I stand ready for UNC to win again, perhaps on a last second shot by "Potential Man", aka The Black Falcon and a steady stream of reports on how amazing HB has become in the clutch.

[moonpie23]

it's sad....but i totally agree.....they whupped us good and then played like a high school team over there...


the will need some excellent guard play and maybe tracy can defend the skinny's....

alas, at the end, i don't think there will be any "clutch" for the falcon to play to...

[jdj4duke]

nahh....leave kong.....he's ok...

Not after he posted this over on the Give Barnes a Little Credit thread

http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t108/pokeystix/?action=view&current=johnhenson.jpg

[Devilsfan]

I agree. Why is he allowed to post unc pictures on this board. If anyone did this over there they would be immediately banned.

[jdj4duke]

I agree. Why is he allowed to post unc pictures on this board. If anyone did this over there they would be immediately banned.

Well the good news is that DBR is certainly not "over there" and is pretty tolerant of divergent views from visitors from the outlying provinces, and Kong's posts are usually pretty well in line with how this board operates.

On the proverbial other hand, I think most of us here would say "we are not amused" by the picture. I am sure that Kong would say he found it funny in the context of the black falcon nonsense, but the only good use for the picture is Duke locker room bulletin board material so maybe it will find a purpose.

Again, not to be too thin skinned, but I for one don't feel the need to see UNC propaganda posted on this board. It just isn't good manners. Guess he worn't raised up right.

[CDu]

Again, not to be too thin skinned, but I for one don't feel the need to see UNC propaganda posted on this board. It just isn't good manners.

I agree. This is a Duke message board. You don't go into someone else's house for dinner and badmouth the cooking. I think it's great that this board is more tolerant of various viewpoints than other boards, but that doesn't mean that someone should push the envelope.

This is from a guy who pretended to be a Duke fan when he first came on the board in an attempt to curry favor. I see this as just a continuation of the poor form.


Guess he worn't raised up right.

Well, he's a UNC fan, so clearly he wasn't raised right. ;) Just kidding of course.

[BD80]

... This is from a guy who pretended to be a Duke fan when he first came on the board in an attempt to curry favor. ...

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/unc/sports/m-footbl/auto_headshot/p-curry2001.jpg

Curry is not

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/geot/sports/m-baskbl/auto_headshot/3542776.jpeg

favored here

[WiJoe]

Not after he posted this over on the Give Barnes a Little Credit thread

Yeah, he my get his knuckles rapped, then he'll be back in here spewing his.... I don't get it.

:confused:

[kong123]

look, its funny! i wasn't trying to start anything by posting that picture, i just thought it was funny. wasn't a dig at Duke and I didn't even notice JS burning in the bottom left corner when i originally posted it. you guys were talking about "the black falcon" and I remembered that I had just run across a funny picture. henson's appearance was what I found to be the best part of the picture. he is such a slight guy and yet he carries himself like he is a badass super-hero, Blue-Steel. If you guys were not so sensitive, you would give it a bit of a chance and maybe laugh?

[BD80]

look, its funny! i wasn't trying to start anything by posting that picture, i just thought it was funny. wasn't a dig at Duke and I didn't even notice JS burning in the bottom left corner when i originally posted it. you guys were talking about "the black falcon" and I remembered that I had just run across a funny picture. henson's appearance was what I found to be the best part of the picture. he is such a slight guy and yet he carries himself like he is a badass super-hero, Blue-Steel. If you guys were not so sensitive, you would give it a bit of a chance and maybe laugh?


I find the whole "black falcon" thing to be very funny!

[sagegrouse]

I find the whole "black falcon" thing to be very funny!

What's scary is that this thread's descent into arguments between posters suggests that UNC is solving some of its problems and actually getting its act together.

I guess we need a mainline discussion for the Heels, but I'm not sure much is being said these days. We need some more red meat from Ol' Roy, HB, or Turnover Jesus or a good butt-kicking.

sagegrouse