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View Full Version : New Andy Katz Top 25 - Duke #11



Classof06
06-20-2007, 11:00 AM
A little higher than I expected, but as people have pointed out, there don't really seem to be too many elite teams in college basketball coming into this year. What really threw me off was Katz being unusually bullish on Duke:

"Losing Josh McRoberts just means the Blue Devils will rely on Brian Zoubek more in the post. But McRoberts' overall loss is made up by the arrival of Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith and Taylor King, three heralded recruits who -- combined with the return of Jon Scheyer, DeMarcus Nelson, Greg Paulus and Gerald Henderson -- make the Blue Devils the second-most talented team in the ACC outside of Carolina (and we didn't even get to Lance Thomas and David McClure). "


Thoughts?

ivduke
06-20-2007, 11:18 AM
A little higher than I expected, but as people have pointed out, there doesn't really seem to be too many elite teams in college basketball coming into this year. What really threw me off was Katz being unusually bullish on Duke:

"Losing Josh McRoberts just means the Blue Devils will rely on Brian Zoubek more in the post. But McRoberts' overall loss is made up by the arrival of Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith and Taylor King, three heralded recruits who -- combined with the return of Jon Scheyer, DeMarcus Nelson, Greg Paulus and Gerald Henderson -- make the Blue Devils the second-most talented team in the ACC outside of Carolina (and we didn't even get to Lance Thomas and David McClure). "


Thoughts?

We have added talent even with the loss of Josh. However, we will be as good as Greg will allow us to be. It could be very good, it could be very mediocre---I for one think we will be much closer to very good and Cameron will very quickly fall in love with KS

Clipsfan
06-20-2007, 12:10 PM
A little higher than I expected, but as people have pointed out, there doesn't really seem to be too many elite teams in college basketball coming into this year. What really threw me off was Katz being unusually bullish on Duke:

"Losing Josh McRoberts just means the Blue Devils will rely on Brian Zoubek more in the post. But McRoberts' overall loss is made up by the arrival of Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith and Taylor King, three heralded recruits who -- combined with the return of Jon Scheyer, DeMarcus Nelson, Greg Paulus and Gerald Henderson -- make the Blue Devils the second-most talented team in the ACC outside of Carolina (and we didn't even get to Lance Thomas and David McClure). "


Thoughts?

I think that without directly saying it, Katz is basically referring to the ridiculous number of Burger Joint All Americans we have on the team. We really do have a ton of talent, the key thing for this coming year will be getting natural development out of the younger guys (especially Lance and Zoubek) while finding the style that fits the players. This team could be really really good, and I'm looking forward to the coming season.

kydevil
06-20-2007, 12:21 PM
I for one am curious to see how K uses all the talented players. We all know for some reason K likes to keep a smaller rotation and trim down to around 8 players. However I see all these players being able to contribute this year;

Greg Paulus
Demarcus Nelson
Jon Scheyer
Gerald Henderson
Dave McClure
Lance Thomas
Brian Zoubek
Marty Pocius
Kyle Singler
Nolan Smith
Taylor King

That is 11 players that are all talented and can most likely get the job done. Out of thost 11 I can't see King or Marty getting minutes due to them being behind on defense. Even though Marty came on strong at the end of the year, I think he could definitely help but I am not the coach. That leaves us with 9 players that K will most likely work from, I'm very anxious to see how he does with all this talent! We all know that he is capable of handling this.

phaedrus
06-20-2007, 12:34 PM
Man, I hope Nolan Smith is as good as advertised since we have two of him!

kydevil
06-20-2007, 12:40 PM
Thanks for noticing I will have to edit that post.

What can I say I really like the kid :D

VaDukie
06-20-2007, 12:46 PM
I think 11 is a good spot for us - I could see us ending up 5 or 6 higher or 5 or 6 lower.

mepanchin
06-20-2007, 12:47 PM
In 03 and 98 we used very deep rotations so I can imagine that we'd use one again if it was appropriate.

Clipsfan
06-20-2007, 12:52 PM
I'd love to see us run a lot this year, I think that we could do it, although I'm not sure how well Zoubek can keep that up. But maybe we could mix it up some, and put in a running team at times and a more half-court oriented team at others. I think that a team with Paulus, Henderson, Nelson, Thomas and Singler would really be able to run. I thought about Smith in there instead of Paulus, but Paulus really does see the open court well, and I'm hoping that he surprises us with how much faster he will be with good wheels.

kydevil
06-20-2007, 12:55 PM
The one thing that excites me about this year is I believe we will be able to matchup well with whoever we play. We can run with teams with a smaller lineup (taking out Zoubs, and playing Thomas/McClure/Singler) and we can bang with teams (using Zoubs and Thomas/McClure/Singler.)

VaDukie
06-20-2007, 12:58 PM
In 03 and 98 we used very deep rotations so I can imagine that we'd use one again if it was appropriate.

Excellent point. When we've had true depth, K has used it.

In 98 regular minutes went to (in no order)
Wojo
Langdon
McLeod (who remembers the stare?)
Brand
Battier
Burgess
Avery
C-Well
Mike Chappell
+ Spot minutes for Domzalski and Price (that team was also Nate's redshirt year - WOW)

In 03:
Duhon
JJ
Casey
Dahntay
Shelden
Shav
Ewing
Horvath
Dockery
+spot minutes for Melchionni. Thompson, and Andre the Doherty killler

I think we go 8-9 deep next year. Hopefully.

Classof06
06-20-2007, 01:36 PM
I too feel that Duke has the opportunity to be quite solid. I think we certainly have the talent to be #11, whether or not we can put it together will be seen.

I think the best option is to pick up the tempo offensively. We have the personnel and the depth to run, so I would love K to play 10 kids regularly because all 10 or so of these kids are good enough to play.

Predicting Singler will start, we can match up well with different opponents at the "5"; we can start Zoubek against a bigger lineup or Lance when we want to run a bit more or we're facing a more athletic/quicker team with not as much size. That being said, I think Zoubek can keep up in a faster game if need be; IMO he has above average agility for his size. Either way, I expect to see many different starting lineups this season, and if we have that many kids capable of starting, then that can only be a good thing...

mepanchin
06-20-2007, 02:21 PM
Frankly I wish we were ranked lower to start. I think our guys need to start hungry and work for everything they get.

Classof06
06-20-2007, 02:26 PM
Frankly I wish we were ranked lower to start. I think our guys need to start hungry and work for everything they get.

Duke could be ranked #1, I doubt anyone on that team last year forgets being bounced in the first round of the tournament. That should be motivation enough...

kydevil
06-20-2007, 02:36 PM
and if losing in the first round is not enough motivation, then how about the players having to hear how Duke is on the downfall. Now that should really get them heated!

Lets go boys!

mepanchin
06-20-2007, 02:45 PM
Hey whatever it takes. I think in this age of everything being super over-scrutinized by the media, it's hard to keep a program on top for so many years because the kids coming in buy into the hype a little and just expect to win and forget that part of winning is not only their talent, but hard work and hunger. Hopefully last season motivates them this summer and into next year.

SilkyJ
06-20-2007, 03:54 PM
Andre the Doherty killler



POTD, if you can get it for 1/10 of your post...

Classof06
06-20-2007, 05:46 PM
Duke was also #11 in foxsports.com's updated rankings as well.

VaDukie
06-20-2007, 06:09 PM
And we're #13 on CBS Sportsline, so there's a pretty clear consensus on our starting point.

NYC Duke Fan
06-21-2007, 04:02 AM
The one thing that excites me about this year is I believe we will be able to matchup well with whoever we play. We can run with teams with a smaller lineup (taking out Zoubs, and playing Thomas/McClure/Singler) and we can bang with teams (using Zoubs and Thomas/McClure/Singler.)

Unless they improve drastically over the summer, playing Thomas and McClure together means that you have 2 out of your five players on the court with virtually no offensive ability save for maybe , and I emphasize maybe, getting an offensive rebound and putting it back up.

Also, if you mean playing Zoubek,Singler and either McClure or Thomas, I think that Duke might have trouble with teams that have a legitimate power forward to go along with a center because at 6-7 I don't see McLure guarding a true power forward with any consistency nor do I think that Singler unless he puts on weight can do it either. Add this to the problem as to what happens if Zoubek gets into foul trouble...then what?

I for one that Paulus is going to be an excellent player for Duke, but I think that the one player who can make Duke a top team is Brian Zoubek. If he can improve and be a presence then Duke can be a legitimate powerhouse. If he is mediocre, then I think that Duke will be just be average.

mpj96
06-21-2007, 07:02 AM
With the depth of talent that we have, but no clear indication at this point of a dominant starting five, this could be an opportunity for K to run squads in and out and keep up the tempo. We would obviously still have problems with teams that have an elite core (like, gag, UNC) but by the end of the year they might have problems with us too.

dukerev
06-21-2007, 07:31 AM
In Spite of Mr. Iverson's proclamation that practice doesn't matter, practice will be HUGE this year for the Devils. It'll determine the starters (other than Greg I don't think anyone has a starting spot locked up and even he's going to be pushed significantly by Nolan) and the playing time. Practice will show whether Zoubek has gotten better, whether Lance is ready to be the man inside (I think he is and will be), whether the freshmen can contribute. Perhaps the only place more important than the practice floor (in determining starters/minutes) will be the training table.

As to preseason rank...who cares? Unlike football, the rankings mean nothing. Duke has to prove it on the floor.

Matches
06-21-2007, 08:31 AM
Too high, at least to start. Potentially we could be that good by the end of the year, butt here are a lot of kinks to work out, and a lot of unknowns to ponder, before we will be the 11th best team in the nation.

feldspar
06-21-2007, 09:18 AM
Too high, at least to start. Potentially we could be that good by the end of the year, butt here are a lot of kinks to work out, and a lot of unknowns to ponder, before we will be the 11th best team in the nation.

Agreed. I would have liked to see us on the bubble of the top 25 to start out the season, perhaps at 22 or 23. Coming off of last year, this team needs to earn being in the top 15. They need to come out of the gates feeling like they have something to prove because....well.....they do have something to prove.

kydevil
06-21-2007, 10:04 AM
Unless they improve drastically over the summer, playing Thomas and McClure together means that you have 2 out of your five players on the court with virtually no offensive ability save for maybe , and I emphasize maybe, getting an offensive rebound and putting it back up.

Also, if you mean playing Zoubek,Singler and either McClure or Thomas, I think that Duke might have trouble with teams that have a legitimate power forward to go along with a center because at 6-7 I don't see McLure guarding a true power forward with any consistency nor do I think that Singler unless he puts on weight can do it either. Add this to the problem as to what happens if Zoubek gets into foul trouble...then what?

I for one that Paulus is going to be an excellent player for Duke, but I think that the one player who can make Duke a top team is Brian Zoubek. If he can improve and be a presence then Duke can be a legitimate powerhouse. If he is mediocre, then I think that Duke will be just be average.

I should have clarified better with the smaller teams i meant you could play something like Thomas/Singler/McClure as the "5" and pass with Gerald as the "4" and go with a more 4 guard lineup. If that doesn't work then you could play Singler with either Thomas or McClure.
I do see Singler or McClure guarding a legit power ford consistently. Singler guarded Kevin Love brilliantly. If you haven't seen Love he's a pretty big guy. As for McClure, all last year he was guarding the other teams second big man and I remember fellow Duke fans raving about his defense!

Richard Berg
06-21-2007, 03:49 PM
Unless they improve drastically over the summer, playing Thomas and McClure together means that you have 2 out of your five players on the court with virtually no offensive ability save for maybe , and I emphasize maybe, getting an offensive rebound and putting it back up.
I think LT will be ready to be a 3rd or 4th offensive option. He has a very quick first step, something you can't really teach. Like all young players, he needs to improve his ability to finish amid big ACC-quality defenders. LT also needs a softer short/mid-range touch. But those are pretty easily fixable. He was really improving at one point last winter before things started to unravel.

McClure will do fine as a Bowen kind of player: gritty defense, open shots, and garbage points. I predict he starts several games at the beginning of the season (offense be damned) until one of the 5th-8th guys differentiates himself.

kydevil
06-21-2007, 05:05 PM
To me Lt looked timid throughout the year. IMO this was due to the fact that he just never got into a groove. I think with the more minutes that he will get this year, he will be able to get used to the offense and get his confidence going. All he needs is some minutes and some shots to go down and he will get going.

I don't think Lt would have been such a highly regarded recruit with the offense some are suggesting him having. I know that it wasn't one of his best qualities coming out of H.S. but still, K must have seen something he liked.

Clipsfan
06-21-2007, 05:21 PM
To me Lt looked timid throughout the year. IMO this was due to the fact that he just never got into a groove. I think with the more minutes that he will get this year, he will be able to get used to the offense and get his confidence going. All he needs is some minutes and some shots to go down and he will get going.

I don't think Lt would have been such a highly regarded recruit with the offense some are suggesting him having. I know that it wasn't one of his best qualities coming out of H.S. but still, K must have seen something he liked.

There are clips on the internet which show some very good offensive abilities, but with enough footage I could create one of those clips by just putting the few good things I do into 30 seconds. However, I think that a large reason he didn't get more minutes was he would pick up a lot of quick fouls. He'll be able to get more into the flow if he manages to sort that out.

dukerev
06-21-2007, 06:25 PM
I think you'll see LT as the most improved as the sophs. I also predict he'll be a captain for the 08-09 season.

kydevil
06-21-2007, 06:56 PM
I hope that he is much improved.

However I wouldn't go quite as far as the captain for the 08-09 season Paulus will be a senior and so will McClure I think they get the nod. As for now though I personally don't care.