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View Full Version : NCAA "Death Penalty" for coaches (and possibly ADs)



4decadedukie
01-16-2011, 03:29 PM
I just watched an excellent ESPN documentary regarding SMU football and the eventual "death penalty" imposed on Southern Methodist. We all know that the NCAA only rarely punishes repeat violators with this most draconian of sanctions. However, SMU's situation two decades ago caused me to consider whether the NCAA should not also be able permanently to ban coaches (and perhaps ADs) who have a lengthy, significant and documented record of egregious violations.

For example, let us premise that -- eventually -- Coach Calipari's decisions and actions at Kentucky are seriously sanctioned by the NCAA, as they were at both Memphis and UMass (vacation of Final Four appearances, among other punishments). Obviously, under such circumstances, UK would have some responsibility, for hiring a head coach with such a questionable ethical record. Beyond that, however, wouldn't a coach of this type have proven, by his own performance and integrity records, that he simply cannot be trusted to operate a program with ethics and honor? If so -- and this is the critical point -- banning the coach would ensure innocent student-athletes no longer can be injured by this coach's misdeeds. Other professions permanently exclude individuals whose integrity can not be trusted (for example, disbarment for attorneys). Should a similar penalty be available for intercollegiate coaches?

JasonEvans
01-16-2011, 03:36 PM
Maybe I missed something, but I am not aware of any of the problems at UMass or Memphis being directly linked to Calipari. He was the unwitting victim of Camby getting paid by an agent and Rose faking his SAT score.

While I hate to defend him, Cal has never (to my knowledge) been named as having done anything wrong by the NCAA.

And that is the problem with the scenario you describe.

-Jason "I now need to go scrub my entire body to get off the stench from defending Calipari... blech!" Evans

4decadedukie
01-16-2011, 03:56 PM
Maybe I missed something, but I am not aware of any of the problems at UMass or Memphis being directly linked to Calipari. He was the unwitting victim of Camby getting paid by an agent and Rose faking his SAT score.
S
While I hate to defend him, Cal has never (to my knowledge) been named as having done anything wrong by the NCAA.

And that is the problem with the scenario you describe.

-Jason "I now need to go scrub my entire body to get off the stench from defending Calipari... blech!" Evans


I understand, but I deeply believe leaders are always and unequivocally ACCOUNTABLE for everything that happens "on their watch." Therefore, Cal cannot escape Rose and Camby (or Bledsoe or Kanter, for that matter). To not have this pervasive level of personal responsibility might allow clever schemers to get away with multiple wrongful deeds in perpetuity. Leadership is NOT a legal issue, and the standards that apply in such matters are not (IMHO) relevant. More personally, I appreciate your ethics in supporting Calipari, despite your well established and justified disdain for him.

Indoor66
01-16-2011, 04:19 PM
I understand, but I deeply believe leaders are always and unequivocally ACCOUNTABLE for everything that happens "on their watch." Therefore, Cal cannot escape Rose and Camby (or Bledsoe or Kanter, for that matter). To not have this pervasive level of personal responsibility might allow clever schemers to get away with multiple wrongful deeds in perpetuity. Leadership is NOT a legal issue, and the standards that apply in such matters are not (IMHO) relevant. More personally, I appreciate your ethics in supporting Calipari, despite your well established and justified disdain for him.

Naah - that is only when you play the game for life and death - like the military. Everywhere else you look for the "pass" and move on to the next situation.

SCMatt33
01-16-2011, 04:49 PM
They do have a "death penalty" for coaches, just ask Dave Bliss. He personally received a 10-year show-cause penalty for his role in the Patrick Dennehy scandal. A show-cause penalty is as severe a penalty as the NCAA can enforce on a coach. The NCAA can't legally prevent a school from hiring an individual, but they can punish schools for doing so. As far as being "accountable," I totally agree that a coach should be held responsible for things under his control. I sincerely hope that the NCAA upholds the charges against Jim Calhoun for allowing his program to engage in recruiting violations under his watch. That said, I don't think that Calipari has done anything yet that specifically warrants NCAA punishment. First, you can't punish someone for things not deemed a violation (Bledsoe) or things that occurred entirely outside of his program (Kanter). You can't seriously think that Calipari should be held responsible for recruiting someone who at the time of his recruitment might have violated rules. If the NCAA had gotten stuff done sooner and declared him ineligible before his recruitment, then maybe, but not as it happened. As far as Rose and Camby, there is a possibility that he could have done something, but you really need to directly link him to the situation to have serious punishment for isolated incidents. As it is, during a career spanning two decades at this point, there are two incidents that you could indirectly link to Calipari, Camby signing with an agent, and giving Rose's brother a free plain ride. The SAT thing is again something that happened before joining the program, and there is nothing beyond speculation from those against Calipari that he or Memphis was involved or aware of it. Two indirect incidents over 20 years is not enough in my mind to warrant a punishment. A coach should only be held accountable for direct violation committed by his program or systematic indirect violations.

4decadedukie
01-16-2011, 05:39 PM
Naah - that is only when you play the game for life and death - like the military. Everywhere else you look for the "pass" and move on to the next situation.

I66 - I truly understand your point, however, my career as a Naval officer really demonstrated the values of accountability and self-discipline to me. The fact is, I believe so many civilian pursuits, professions, enterprises, institutions, etc. would be FAR better if the mores, culture, standards, and integrity of the military were widely and voluntarily employed. The "pass and move on" culture to which you allude, certainly is the norm -- and it may also be our nation's downfall. Incidentally, the foregoing does not suggest that all cultural and ethical matters in the military are optimal, as most recently illustrated with the USS Enterprise fiasco.

ipatent
01-16-2011, 06:50 PM
Maybe I missed something, but I am not aware of any of the problems at UMass or Memphis being directly linked to Calipari. He was the unwitting victim of Camby getting paid by an agent and Rose faking his SAT score.

I have a hard time believing that Calipari didn't know (or at least suspected and looked the other way) about the Rose SAT score. At the least he knew that Rose took the SAT in Detroit (home of World Wide Wes) when the kid lived in Chicago, and that his score improbably improved quite a bit.

Indoor66
01-16-2011, 07:13 PM
I66 - I truly understand your point, however, my career as a Naval officer really demonstrated the values of accountability and self-discipline to me. The fact is, I believe so many civilian pursuits, professions, enterprises, institutions, etc. would be FAR better if the mores, culture, standards, and integrity of the military were widely and voluntarily employed. The "pass and move on" culture to which you allude, certainly is the norm -- and it may also be our nation's downfall. Incidentally, the foregoing does not suggest that all cultural and ethical matters in the military are optimal, as most recently illustrated with the USS Enterprise fiasco.

I am sure you realize that I completely agree with you. Also,an additional dose of discipline spread around wouldn't hurt, either.

4decadedukie
01-16-2011, 07:18 PM
I am sure you realize that I completely agree with you. Also,an additional dose of discipline spread around wouldn't hurt, either.

Yes, I surely do . . . and I thank you.

WiJoe
01-16-2011, 08:09 PM
Maybe I missed something, but I am not aware of any of the problems at UMass or Memphis being directly linked to Calipari. He was the unwitting victim of Camby getting paid by an agent and Rose faking his SAT score.

While I hate to defend him, Cal has never (to my knowledge) been named as having done anything wrong by the NCAA.

And that is the problem with the scenario you describe.

-Jason "I now need to go scrub my entire body to get off the stench from defending Calipari... blech!" Evans

Never thought you were this naive. For gosh sakes, how can you think this is being done independently of the slimy one. He doesn't even get a free pass on the Camby thing. He just hasn't been nailed. Where's Dan Wetzel when you need him?

JasonEvans
01-16-2011, 11:30 PM
Never thought you were this naive. For gosh sakes, how can you think this is being done independently of the slimy one. He doesn't even get a free pass on the Camby thing. He just hasn't been nailed. Where's Dan Wetzel when you need him?

You misunderstand me. I absolutely think Cal knew about some of this stuff and he is a master at looking the other way at the right moment.

My point was that the NCAA has never found Cal guilty of doing anything wrong. The notion that an infraction under his watch should carry some special penalty because he has been punished before does not hold water because he has never been directly punished.

--Jason "Blech--- I tire of this. Cal is slime and we all know it" Evans

diveonthefloor
01-16-2011, 11:47 PM
One of the reasons Cal has never been the recipient of NCAA sanctions is that he gets the hell outta Dodge every time he catches wind that his program is under investigation.

There's never been a slimier men's coach. Not Tark, not Calhoun, not Frieder....

Let's hope that Karma doesn't forget Cal.