MOTM: Duke vs. UVA (Jan 15, 2011)

[JBDuke]

Who was Man of the Match in Duke's 76-60 win over UVA in Cameron?

[rotogod00]

Can I vote for Coach Ks halftime speech?

[deezl]

Ndotsmitty.

[wsb3]

i know Nolan was huge but I thought we desperately needed someone besides our big two to come to life. Andre was just huge during our run, and not just the 3's. I loved his pass up court to Nolan on the big dunk. The defense as a whole just really locked down.

[CLW]

Can I vote for Coach Ks halftime speech?

LOL that or whoever kidnapped the imposter Duke club that played the entire 1st half.

[jv001]

I voted for Andre as he completely turned around his play from the last few games and the first half in this game. Without his turn around, we would have been in big trouble. As for the player of the game, that was Nolan Smith. Man among boys. Way to go Nolan. Go Duke!

[Bob Green]

Nolan was huge today. He willed Duke to victory with 29 points, seven rebounds and six assists and receives my vote for MOTM. I agree Andre Dawkins stepped up big in the second half so he receives honorable mention from me. Ryan Kelly also played strong. Mason Plumlee logged 16 rebounds. Once (if) he figures out how to score in the low post, he will be a beast. Hopefully, the light bulb illuminates sometime before March.

[Saratoga2]

i know Nolan was huge but I thought we desperately needed someone besides our big two to come to life. Andre was just huge during our run, and not just the 3's. I loved his pass up court to Nolan on the big dunk. The defense as a whole just really locked down.

When Andre plays with confidence he is a very important part of the team. He gets his points efficiently and does other things that shows he has a solid court awareness. Thee runner he made where he was fouled followed by the steal and pass to Nolan for the dunk were good exaamples of how well he can play.

[Fish80]

Nolan was huge today. He willed Duke to victory with 29 points, seven rebounds and six assists and receives my vote for MOTM. I agree Andre Dawkins stepped up big in the second half so he receives honorable mention from me. Ryan Kelly also played strong. Mason Plumlee logged 16 rebounds. Once (if) he figures out how to score in the low post, he will be a beast. Hopefully, the light bulb illuminates sometime before March.

16 rebounds is great for Mason. But he only took 5 shots. I'd really like to see us get him a few more touches so he can get a few more shots.

With 6 offensive rebounds, why isn't he getting more put backs?

[Bob Green]

The two 3-pointers in a row Andre hit in transition were huge. I really like it when the ball is passed to Andre on the wing and he can let the 3-ball fly before the opponents defense is back and set. In that situation, he is an assassin.

[Bob Green]

With 6 offensive rebounds, why isn't he getting more put backs?

Mason's first move after securing an offensive rebound seems to always be away from the basket, which takes him out of scoring position. He needs to go toward the rim immediately and with authority. This is an area where he needs more development.

[dukebluelemur]

Mason might have got some serious consideration... except he missed an essentially uncontested Dunk. That was just embarrassing. Gotta say the rebounding was nice though, however much UVA was weak underneath the basket.

[AtlDuke72]

16 rebounds is great for Mason. But he only took 5 shots. I'd really like to see us get him a few more touches so he can get a few more shots.

With 6 offensive rebounds, why isn't he getting more put backs?

Last years team took off when Zoubek stopped shooting. I think Mason's role should be the same. 16 rebounds is huge so he is an asset.
The fact is that the offense falls apart when the ball goes through him or Miles. Free throw shooting is also very poor. The Plumlees will hopefully figure out how to be effective, but I don't think more shots and attempting to put offensive rebounds back up at this point in their careers is the answer.

[mapei]

I'm glad Mason can rebound, cause offensively he's a turnover waiting to happen every time he touches the ball. Or so it seemed today.

Nolan was the MAN. He put the team on his back and carried them. By far the best player on the floor. But the gap between him/Kyle and everyone else is immense. Not that others can't come alive at times, but we can't count on it.

[left_hook_lacey]

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand how anyone could say anyone other than Nolan was the MOM today. He basically carried us the whole game, if not with his own offense, with his assists. He had half our points for the majority of the game until we pulled away late.

In my opinion, he was the man of the match last game, and every game since Kyrie went down. If (God forbid) Nolan were to miss a game for any reason, everyone would see how important he is. Points and stats aside, he does things for our offense that will never be seen on the stat sheet and we would be in a world of hurt with out him.

[Wander]

Mason is nowhere near the rebounder that Zoubek was last year. Everyone get that idea out of your head right now. Everyone was really good about recognizing that Scheyer and Irving were different styles of point guards, but for some reason that lesson hasn't been applied to Zoubek and Mason.

It's not enough for the Plumlees and Kelly to just provide position defense, screen, and rebound. Because they're nowhere near as good at it as LT and Z were last year. They need to find a way to be better on offense and help defense than they are now.

[Bob Green]

Mason is nowhere near the rebounder that Zoubek was last year. Everyone get that idea out of your head right now.

Over the last 10 games of the season, Brian Zoubek averaged 8.2 rebounds per game including 4.0 offensive rebounds per game. These 10 games are when Zoubek was playing the best basketball of his career and really contributing to Duke winning the ACC and National Championships. For the season, Zoubek averaged 7.7 rpg including 3.6 offensive rebounds per game.

Through 17 games this season, Mason Plumlee is averaging 8.5 rebounds per game including 2.4 offensive rebounds per game. In four ACC games, Mason Plumlee is averaging 11.5 rebounds per game including 3.3 offensive rebounds per game.

Statistically, Mason Plumlee is a better overall rebounder than Zoubek but is slightly less effective on the offensive boards. Where Zoubek excelled, and where Mason Plumlee needs to improve, is converting offensive rebounds into second chance points. Zoubek kicked those rebounds out to wide open 3-point shooters who nailed shots on a consistent basis.

Therefore, there is lots of room for improvement in Mason's rebounding efforts but to say he is "nowhere near the rebounder that Zoubek was last year" is false.

[OldPhiKap]

Nolan was the best player on the court today.

Andre made the crucial push when it counted.

I voted for Andre but there's no doubt that Nolan was the LEADER of the team.

Can we give two game balls?

[El_Diablo]

Over the last 10 games of the season, Brian Zoubek averaged 8.2 rebounds per game including 4.0 offensive rebounds per game. These 10 games are when Zoubek was playing the best basketball of his career and really contributing to Duke winning the ACC and National Championships.

You're shortchanging Zoubek here, but maybe you were using the incomplete ESPN stats page, which ends with the ACC tournament game against Miami for some reason. Anyway, Zoubek actually averaged 9.5 rpg over the last ten games, and 10.1 over last sixteen games (starting with the Maryland game).

Your overall point is still valid though; Mason isn't far off that pace (with 8.4 rpg), and he exceeds it in ACC play (with 11.5 rpg). Although Duke is playing at a slightly faster pace this year, those numbers speak for themselves.

[Acymetric]

You're shortchanging Zoubek here, but maybe you were using the incomplete ESPN stats page, which ends with the ACC tournament game against Miami for some reason. Anyway, Zoubek actually averaged 9.5 rpg over the last ten games, and 10.1 over last sixteen games (starting with the Maryland game).

Your overall point is still valid though; Mason isn't far off that pace (with 8.4 rpg), and he exceeds it in ACC play (with 11.5 rpg). Although Duke is playing at a slightly faster pace this year, those numbers speak for themselves.

Its also worth noting that we had a lot of missed shots...I'd be curious to see the rebounding percentages for Mason compared to Z...might be more informative.

[El_Diablo]

Its also worth noting that we had a lot of missed shots...I'd be curious to see the rebounding percentages for Mason compared to Z...might be more informative.

Zoubek, 2009-10
ORP: 21.4%
DRP: 24.8%

Mason, 2010-11
ORP: 9.8%
DRP: 24.4%

(ORP = offensive rebounding percentage, DRP = defensive rebounding percentage)

[Acymetric]

Zoubek, 2009-10
ORP: 21.4%
DRP: 24.8%

Mason, 2010-11
ORP: 9.8%
DRP: 24.4%

(ORP = offensive rebounding percentage, DRP = defensive rebounding percentage)

Did you pull that from KenPom or get it somewhere else? I initially went to KenPom to check the stats but they're only updated through the 9th, which leaves out today's game and the FSU game so I wasn't really sure it was useful since the discussion is including recent games.

On the other hand, this supports my opinion that Z was in fact statistically superior, so maybe I should shutup and point to the offensive percentages, I guess :D

[El_Diablo]

Did you pull that from KenPom or get it somewhere else? I initially went to KenPom to check the stats but they're only updated through the 9th, which leaves out today's game and the FSU game so I wasn't really sure it was useful since the discussion is including recent games.

On the other hand, this supports my opinion that Z was in fact statistically superior, so maybe I should shutup and point to the offensive percentages, I guess :D

Yeah, that was just KenPom. Sorry, I didn't realize that it was missing the last couple games. Mason's percentages should go up a little bit after some strong rebounding performances this week, but he'll still be pretty far behind Z's offensive rebounding rate.

[Bob Green]

You're shortchanging Zoubek here, but maybe you were using the incomplete ESPN stats page, which ends with the ACC tournament game against Miami for some reason. Anyway, Zoubek actually averaged 9.5 rpg over the last ten games,...

I used the official stats posted at GoDuke.com however I only added up the last nine games instead of all 10. Zoubek had 13 rebounds against North Carolina and ended up with a total of 95 instead of the 82 I credited him with.

Thanks!

[gep]

Over the last 10 games of the season, Brian Zoubek averaged 8.2 rebounds per game including 4.0 offensive rebounds per game. These 10 games are when Zoubek was playing the best basketball of his career and really contributing to Duke winning the ACC and National Championships. For the season, Zoubek averaged 7.7 rpg including 3.6 offensive rebounds per game.

Through 17 games this season, Mason Plumlee is averaging 8.5 rebounds per game including 2.4 offensive rebounds per game. In four ACC games, Mason Plumlee is averaging 11.5 rebounds per game including 3.3 offensive rebounds per game.

Statistically, Mason Plumlee is a better overall rebounder than Zoubek but is slightly less effective on the offensive boards. Where Zoubek excelled, and where Mason Plumlee needs to improve, is converting offensive rebounds into second chance points. Zoubek kicked those rebounds out to wide open 3-point shooters who nailed shots on a consistent basis.

Therefore, there is lots of room for improvement in Mason's rebounding efforts but to say he is "nowhere near the rebounder that Zoubek was last year" is false.

I think, for me at least, "total" effectiveness" of rebounding is making something happen with the rebound. This is what I remember most about Zoubs. When he gets a rebound, something positive happens. When Mason gets a rebound, there's uncertainty...:confused: Hopefully, Mason figures this out... just like Zoubs did...

[ice-9]

They are different types of players so I don't know why we insist they should play the same. Zoubek is a tall, intelligent, good passing, offensive rebounding machine that is slow, immobile, and low on scoring ability. Mason can run, jump, dribble, make the mid range jumper, but does not yet have Zoubek's maturity or headiness. Mason needs to focus on growing Mason - he does not need to try to be someone he's not.

[OldPhiKap]

They are different types of players so I don't know why we insist they should play the same. Zoubek is a tall, intelligent, good passing, offensive rebounding machine that is slow, immobile, and low on scoring ability. Mason can run, jump, dribble, make the mid range jumper, but does not yet have Zoubek's maturity or headiness. Mason needs to focus on growing Mason - he does not need to try to be someone he's not.

This is absolutely wrong. Mason needs to focus on growing a beard and reaching 7 feet.



(see the cat? see the cradle?)

[Wander]

Therefore, there is lots of room for improvement in Mason's rebounding efforts but to say he is "nowhere near the rebounder that Zoubek was last year" is false.

As others have pointed out: pace. Zoubek got over 20% of offensive boards; Mason is just under 10%. Z's last season was one of the best rebounding seasons in the last decade of college basketball. I stand by my statement that Mason (and most others) isn't close.

[CDu]

Over the last 10 games of the season, Brian Zoubek averaged 8.2 rebounds per game including 4.0 offensive rebounds per game. These 10 games are when Zoubek was playing the best basketball of his career and really contributing to Duke winning the ACC and National Championships. For the season, Zoubek averaged 7.7 rpg including 3.6 offensive rebounds per game.

Through 17 games this season, Mason Plumlee is averaging 8.5 rebounds per game including 2.4 offensive rebounds per game. In four ACC games, Mason Plumlee is averaging 11.5 rebounds per game including 3.3 offensive rebounds per game.

Statistically, Mason Plumlee is a better overall rebounder than Zoubek but is slightly less effective on the offensive boards. Where Zoubek excelled, and where Mason Plumlee needs to improve, is converting offensive rebounds into second chance points. Zoubek kicked those rebounds out to wide open 3-point shooters who nailed shots on a consistent basis.

Therefore, there is lots of room for improvement in Mason's rebounding efforts but to say he is "nowhere near the rebounder that Zoubek was last year" is false.

Comparing Mason's per-game averages with Zoubek's per-game averages isn't quite appropriate. You need to compare the percentages to account for differences in pace and opportunities.

Last year, Zoubek had rebound percentages of 21.4% (offensive) and 24.8% (defensive). Mason's numbers are 9.8% and 24.4% this year. So Mason is comparable to Zoubek in terms of defensive rebounding, but he's well behind Zoubek as an offensive rebounder (and thus overall as well). Zoubek was #1 in the country last year in offensive rebound rate, while Mason is #374 so far this year.

That said, comparing Mason to perhaps the best rebounder in the country (in terms of overall rate) is unfair to Mason. He's doing a very solid job of collecting defensive rebounds.

[Wander]

That said, comparing Mason to perhaps the best rebounder in the country (in terms of overall rate) is unfair to Mason. He's doing a very solid job of collecting defensive rebounds.

Right, to be clear, I don't expect Mason to be as good as an overall rebounder as Zoubek. But I'd like for him to do other things, like be some sort of a scoring threat on things other than offensive rebounds, and be an effective athletic help defender - things I wouldn't expect from Zoubek.

I guess my point is that I'd like people to realize our frontcourt players have a vastly different style from those last year, and as such, we need to stop wanting them to have the same "just screen/position-defense/rebound" roles as last season.

[superdave]

Mason's first move after securing an offensive rebound seems to always be away from the basket, which takes him out of scoring position. He needs to go toward the rim immediately and with authority. This is an area where he needs more development.

I think this indicative of our team in general. They are too patient and dont attack enough at times. I cant tell you how many times a guy made a good shot fake, got his defender in the air, then looked to pass. Attack!

[AtlDuke72]

Right, to be clear, I don't expect Mason to be as good as an overall rebounder as Zoubek. But I'd like for him to do other things, like be some sort of a scoring threat on things other than offensive rebounds, and be an effective athletic help defender - things I wouldn't expect from Zoubek.

I guess my point is that I'd like people to realize our frontcourt players have a vastly different style from those last year, and as such, we need to stop wanting them to have the same "just screen/position-defense/rebound" roles as last season.

This discussion started in response to the suggestion that Mason should get more shots and more put backs when he gets offensive rebounds. I don't think anyone was suggesting that his role should be identical to Zoubek's role or that their skills are the same. However, I don't think he needs to shoot more or force it to the basket when he gets an offensive rebound since he has not shown the ability to do either very well.