MBB: Duke 76 UVA 60 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[rotogod00]

Favored by 21. Outscored 'em by 22 in the 2nd half. Must've been a nice halftime speech.

[stillcrazie]

exhale.

[superdave]

This was a real gut check for Duke. They figured out a way to generate energy and step up. I hope fans realize it was a gut check for us too - the first half on the in-game thread was pathetic. People need to have some faith in these players and this coach. There is no better team in the country, but you wouldnt know it from the message boards.

[RoyalBlue08]

Somebody needs to pull a prank on Nolan before the start of every game. He's such a great kid....but when he gets mad he is the best player in the nation.

[CLW]

Dr. Jeckle/Mr. Hyde type performance as the 1st and 2nd halfs were night and day due largely to the effort/intensity on the defensive end.

However the issues we had before mainly lack of a back to the basket scorer still persist.


I'm really curious as to why Miles appears to be in K's doghouse. Although he hasn't played great, IMHO he's played just as well as Mason and Kelly.

EDIT: we also had more turnovers than assists i think for the 3rd game in a row.

[jv001]

I think I deserve some props on the MOTM. Turned the sound off the tv so as not to curse under my breath at Len Elmore. He's the one announcer I almost hate. After silencing lennie babbie, we played much better. Must have been the bad vibes I was giving off. Go Duke!

[superdave]

We added some new offensive wrinkles today. Nolan posted up 3-4 times and we ran the ball through him to either make a move or pass. Kyle played a lot more at the 4, most likely due to VA being under-sized with Mike Scott injured. We picked up full-court a few times which seemed like a move to generate energy and mess up their rhythm. Also, we looked to find our bigs flashing to the rim.

[CameronDuke]

I am impressed with Tony Bennett's effort at UVA. Their kids play good defense and are a few injuries away from being in the upper realm of the ACC. Give him another year or two with his type of recruits believing in his system and they could be contenders.

Nolan Smith obviously continued his great play. His various scoring abilities carried us. He hit jumpers, had a nasty dunk, got to the line, and at one time displayed some of the best post moves of anyone on our team. He is the MOTM today. I was impressed with Mason's rebounding, but there was one play where he showed glimpses of being Zoubek like. He tipped a ball out on a rebound that he couldn't quite get to at the 8:10 mark that gave us another shot to score. Dawkins hit a 3 right after that and the game was basically sealed. If he does that more often, we will be better.

I also liked that Kelly got some easy buckets inside, we need more of that. Our 3 point shooting is still abysmal, but hopefully they will start falling. Dawkins heated up a bit in the second half, but we missed lots of uncontested 3s. UVA played good defense, but our horrid shooting included several wide open shots. We ratcheted up the D in the second half on the run around the 10:00 mark which ultimately proved the difference.

On to NCSU Wednesday and another hostile environment. I love ACC basketball!

Go Duke

[ice-9]

Tale of two halves. We attacked and moved the ball better in the second half. Shots started dropping, especially for Dawkins. Our on-the-ball defense also improved a lot, which led to better overall defense. One thing I liked is our guards doing a better job finding our bigs rolling to the basket.

The only thing I would've liked to see is Singler asserting himself more offensively. He should be taking more than 9 shots a game, especially considering the number of minutes he plays.

[ncexnyc]

This was a real gut check for Duke. They figured out a way to generate energy and step up. I hope fans realize it was a gut check for us too - the first half on the in-game thread was pathetic. People need to have some faith in these players and this coach. There is no better team in the country, but you wouldnt know it from the message boards.
It's one thing to say "there is no better team in the country" and that very well may be true. However you also have to play like you're the best and that certainly wasn't the case in the first half.

[Lord Ash]

I have to say, I am generally very happy with Seth's ability and willingness to drive. He is very able to penetrate, and seems good at both going all the way to try to score as well as holding up and trying the midrange floater or jumper. He is awful good at it, I think, even if his shots haven't fallen a ton recently.

[sandinmyshoes]

Let's not kid ourselves. Virginia started to run out of gas about midway through the second half. We were playing better, to be sure, but it wasn't all about us today.

Still, we won by double digits. I think this being the best team in college basketball is a goal and not where we are right now. To be one of five or six teams most likely to make that leap is a good spot to be in, but there's still work to do.

[HateCarolina]

I commented earlier that I think he is taking good shots, but the ball seems just not to fall for him. Hopefully that will change b/c I do agree that he had some nice drives today which could be really good for setting up Kelly and the Plumlees for easy shots with a quick dish or a kick out for an open three (assuming we start to hit them a little more consistently).

[DukieInBrasil]

I really don't understand why Miles isn't playing more than 4 minutes in an ACC game. He grabbed 2 boards and didn't commit any gaffes more garish than some of Mason's. Is Miles hurt?

[marinbobbyduhon]

Tale of two halves. We attacked and moved the ball better in the second half. Shots started dropping, especially for Dawkins. Our on-the-ball defense also improved a lot, which led to better overall defense. One thing I liked is our guards doing a better job finding our bigs rolling to the basket.

The only thing I would've liked to see is Singler asserting himself more offensively. He should be taking more than 9 shots a game, especially when considering the number of minutes he plays.

I was thinking the very same thing about Kyle's lack of shots. What is causing this?
I don't think that it's good when an AA is not looking for his shots. I will say in the first half he was open a few times for some easy baskets, and for whatever reason, Nolan didn't seem to be looking for him. That is a concern, as our offense is not flowing very easily right now. It could just be excellent defense by our opposition, though. I hope this doesn't become a trend, as we definitely need Kyle's offense as well as defense and leadership, to be successful come tourney time, IMO.

[NovaScotian]

I'm really curious as to why Miles appears to be in K's doghouse. Although he hasn't played great, IMHO he's played just as well as Mason and Kelly.


i too am curious about why miles is getting so little playing time, though i wouldn't say he's playing as well as his brother or even ryan, mostly because mason is rebounding like a modern day cherokee parks out there and r kelly is providing some great ignition with his passing. miles must not be earning his playing time by not going balls out in practice.

[HateCarolina]

I am not too worried about Kyle's FG attempts. He only had 9 against UVA, but 16 against FSU.

[Saratoga2]

With the exception of Nolan we seemed to come out flat. Little or no contribution from anyone not named Nolan Smith. Our defense was also lost and out bigs had trouble making chippies, except for Kelly to be fair about that. That continued into the second half. No lineup changes seemed to spark any offense until something ignited Duke after the coach K timeout at roughly 4 minutes into the second half.

It looked like our defensive intensity picked up and we had a lineup with Nolan, Kyle, Seth, Andre and Mason in. The primary sub after that was Kelly. With the defensive intensity all of a sudden other players started to hit shots. Dawkins took shots and hit them consistently, Curry also contributed with Nolan staying hot and Kyle contributing 7. Mason was a rebounding machine today, maybe due to his size and athleticism advantages.

I aam at a loss to understand why there was such a difference in Duke play in the halfs. Anyone offer thoughts?

I have been thinking that we win when Kyle and Nolan put up around 40, Andre and Seth around 15 and the bigs around 15. We should be able to hold teams under 70 on most nights. Tonight we I had Nolan with 29 or 30 and Kyle with 13. So they hit 42 or 43 combined. Andre had 14 and Seth 7 for 21 combined and Kelly with 8 and Mason with 5 for 13 combined. That seems to be a good distribution for us but most of our scoring came in the second half.

By the way, I found the segment of broadcast in Mandarin superior than when Dickie V does his commentary. Not that Patrick and Elmore are that great either.

[Reilly]

My counting may be off, but I think it's now 49-11 since here's to never forgetting tonight.

[sagegrouse]

Tale of two halves. We attacked and moved the ball better in the second half. Shots started dropping, especially for Dawkins. .

Virginia played incredibly hard on defense and was aggressive on offense, and then the Cavs couldn't do it any longer. Losing Sene with his fourth foul was the clincher. Kudos to Bennett and Virginia. Way to hang in there, Devils, and take advantage of the openings in the second half.

I haven't seen the final stats, but they will make the halves look like night and day. But I think we just wore Virginia down.

It looks like every ACC team is approaching Duke the same way-- thanks Gary Williams! (1) Crowd the perimeter to guard the 3-ball. (2) Then collapse on the driver because the possibility of a successful dish off to a big guy is close to nil. (3) Race back on defense to prevent a Duke fast break. In other words, no easy shots.

I don't know if anyone can do these three things against Duke for 40 minutes, but we need an offensive threat inside to get some easy baskets, when (1), (2), and (3) are being effective.

sagegrouse

[1991 duke law]

I have been away for a few weeks and have only seen one game recently - FSU. I just saw the box score for the UVA game and he barely played. It appears that Miles minutes have disappeared. Does anyone have any insight what is happening or why he is getting so little pt?

[dukeimac]

Well, I agree that UVA got tired in the second half and Duke pulled away but two things stuck out to me.

1. Duke was a better team when Nolan wasn't the PG. Tyler didn't look good, defense wasn't that good and poorer ball handling and Seth wasn't great but better. Duke will need to continue to use Seth at the PG. He played PG at Liberty and was still the top freshman scorer with 20+ ppg. Thus, this is one thing that I think will make this team better.

2. Mason and Ryan had a nose for rebounds, especially Mason. In the first 6 minutes he had 9 rebounds. I don't think they need a big post presence just someone who will rebound and play solid defense.

But Nolan must roam more and play the PG less and I think Coach K saw this. I will look for more of this in the games to come.

[sandinmyshoes]

We didn't tie the game until about 8 minutes into the second half. It's not like we just exploded out of the locker room and overwhelmed them.

As noted above, the fourth foul on Sene was big. And UVA just began to lose their legs around the halfway point of the second half. It was predictable given the energy they were throwing into the game with such a relatively thin team. That's not to take too much from our team. Having depth is part of what can make one team better than another.

[Bob Green]

Is Miles hurt?

This is a great question. I hope someone "in the know" can inform the rest of us about his status.

[Mcluhan]

One positive trend? Nolan leads and catalyzes this team.

[jipops]

I was only able to catch the last 15 minutes. I was a bit surprised and disappointed by the score at that time but I loved the level of play I saw from that point forward.

Looking at the stats - 15 turnovers to 13 assists. To me that is a kind of a bad sign. Keep that up and we should be in the conversation of who finishes 2nd in the ACC.

[uh_no]

I have been away for a few weeks and have only seen one game recently - FSU. I just saw the box score for the UVA game and he barely played. It appears that Miles minutes have disappeared. Does anyone have any insight what is happening or why he is getting so little pt?

Probably because he has not been playing well and mason and ryan are playing much better.

[SCMatt33]

I haven't seen a full play by play to make sure, but I think that during the run that gave us the lead for the first time, Duke didn't hit a single three-pointer. I know Nolan had a long two with his foot on the line, but I was very pleased that Duke got on a run by getting into the lane. I know people have been hammering on the big guys, but I thought the biggest problem had been that Duke (Nolan especially) hadn't been getting to the rim. That finally started happening in the last 15 minutes of the game, and it was huge.

I also want to give some credit to Mason. I know he hasn't been scoring at all since Kyrie got hurt, but it hasn't kept him off of the boards. He got Sene out of the game with a fourth foul on a drive and rebounded consistently to the tune of 16 boards (6 offensive). As much as getting in the paint was big in the second half, rebounding played a big part as well. UVA got some easy second looks early, and forcing tough shots while controlling the defensive boards was big as well.

[Saratoga2]

I haven't seen a full play by play to make sure, but I think that during the run that gave us the lead for the first time, Duke didn't hit a single three-pointer. I know Nolan had a long two with his foot on the line, but I was very pleased that Duke got on a run by getting into the lane. I know people have been hammering on the big guys, but I thought the biggest problem had been that Duke (Nolan especially) hadn't been getting to the rim. That finally started happening in the last 15 minutes of the game, and it was huge.

I also want to give some credit to Mason. I know he hasn't been scoring at all since Kyrie got hurt, but it hasn't kept him off of the boards. He got Sene out of the game with a fourth foul on a drive and rebounded consistently to the tune of 16 boards (6 offensive). As much as getting in the paint was big in the second half, rebounding played a big part as well. UVA got some easy second looks early, and forcing tough shots while controlling the defensive boards was big as well.

I think Nolan would up able to post up since he had a size advantage. The guy guarding him was maybe 5'11". That would not be the case in many ACC games, so it was just a matter of taking advantage of the situation.

[taiw93]

Loved what I saw in the second half from this team. Without Kyrie's ability to drive and dish, we have had difficulty scoring when we're cold from three (as has been the case in most of our ACC games thus far), and today, we demonstrated our recipe for success in that scenario. When Nolan gets out on the break, Kyle does his thing, and Seth and Andre drive to the hoop, it gives us great offense while setting up our three point shooters for when the shots start falling. If we keep that up for 40 minutes every game, we'll be REALLy tough to beat.

[HateCarolina]

Probably because he has not been playing well and mason and ryan are playing much better.

Mason playing better than Miles is very relative...kind of like saying Bill Guthridge was a better coach than Matt Doherty...neither one is playing great. I think there has to be something else going on with Miles off the court to cause the lack of minutes.

[Lord Ash]

Mason playing better than Miles is very relative...kind of like saying Bill Guthridge was a better coach than Matt Doherty...neither one is playing great. I think there has to be something else going on with Miles off the court to cause the lack of minutes.

Not to drag us COMPLETELY off topic, but Gut had two Final Fours in three years. Most coaches would kill for that.

Anyway, carry on!

[Oriole Way]

Can someone please youtube Josh Hairston and the bench's reaction to Nolan's monster jam?

[HateCarolina]

Can someone please youtube Josh Hairston and the bench's reaction to Nolan's monster jam?

Josh's expression was priceless and the rest of the bench was jumping up and down.

[DukieInBrasil]

Probably because he has not been playing well and mason and ryan are playing much better.
I'm not sure how you can make that assertion. None of the 3 of them is playing well lately. Mason's rpg #s look great lately, but Miles' rebs per min are not far behind Mason's. Mason makes tons of mistakes on offense and defense and can't shoot FTs, and isn't shooting particularly well from the floor. We just can't tell how well Miles would be playing lately b/c K just isn't playing him. In the last 2 games he's played 10 minutes and grabbed 3 boards and 0-1 FG. When he played 25 min vs Md., he grabbed 8 boards. He didn't shoot very well 4 pts on 7 shots.
All I'm saying is that Miles isn't playing 7 times worse than Mason although Mason is getting 7x more minutes than Miles.
I'd agree that Ryan's overall play is better than either, but he still didn't look very good for the 1st 3/4 of the game.

[Fuqua's Finest]

Wonders to self if Mason should start the beard now? Masebeard definitely doesn't have the same effect as the Zoubeard.

[MChambers]

I aam at a loss to understand why there was such a difference in Duke play in the halfs. Anyone offer thoughts?

most obvious difference is that we went small the entire second half. Virginia had been spreading Duke out and taking us off the dribble. Andre [Edit: Tyler] started the second half, but had a foul and a turnover, so Seth came in.

Ryan played a little, for Mason, but it was mostly Nolan, Kyle, Mason, Andre, and Seth. We outquicked UVa and also were far more aggressive on offense. That forced the UVa defense to sag a little, leading to some open threes.

I have no idea what's going on with Miles, but his attitude seemed fine. I thought Mason simply played better (and fairly well). On offense, Mason will drive you crazy, because he makes simple things hard, but his defense was okay and his rebounding is very good. Ryan is much on offense, but was a step slow on defense and is not thAt good on the boards.


I'm hoping that our shooters have shaken their collective slump.

[MChambers]

I'm not sure how you can make that assertion. None of the 3 of them is playing well lately. Mason's rpg #s look great lately, but Miles' rebs per min are not far behind Mason's. Mason makes tons of mistakes on offense and defense and can't shoot FTs, and isn't shooting particularly well from the floor. We just can't tell how well Miles would be playing lately b/c K just isn't playing him. In the last 2 games he's played 10 minutes and grabbed 3 boards and 0-1 FG. When he played 25 min vs Md., he grabbed 8 boards. He didn't shoot very well 4 pts on 7 shots.
All I'm saying is that Miles isn't playing 7 times worse than Mason although Mason is getting 7x more minutes than Miles.
Well, it's not a linear relationship. We needed quickness, so went small, and Mason is our best big. As long as he's playing hard and not in foul trouble (and that is an obvious way in which he's improved), he'll get most of the minutes at the 5, especially against smaller teams. I expect we'll need Miles against Tracy Smith.

[jipops]

most obvious difference is that we went small the entire second half. Virginia had been spreading Duke out and taking us off the dribble. Andre started the second half, but had a foul and a turnover, so Seth came in.


This is without a doubt our best lineup. I feel like we should just go ahead and start out with it while rotating Kelly and Miles off the bench. For an offense that has been struggling since the weak portion of the schedule ended, we need the additional ball handlers and shooters out there. And it appears our defense doesn't really drop off that much with our small lineup in, it actually may be more effective. We would of course be obliterated on the boards in many matchups but there is always going to be some sacrifice.

[BlueintheFace]

It certainly was a tale of two halves although the first half saw a lot of new looks that this board has asked for in the last few weeks (and especially days). The second half was a lot more of what we saw last year and thus far this year. Here are some rough statistics:

1st Half:

Fed the post over 15 times, 5 turnovers, 4 points (1 PNR, 1 Post move)
25 Total Team Points

2nd Half:

Fed the post 3-5 times, 1 turnover, 7 points (4 on big man cuts on the backside, 3 on Mason's and-one)
51 Total Team Points

Note: Did not include Nolan's two post feeds when we inverted the offense because was focusing on big men


Now, one might argue that it isn't the strategy, but the energy and execution. However, the differences in offensive looks were pretty striking, as were the results.

[left_hook_lacey]

Folks, this one was simple. It's not "a tale of two halves" or a "great half-time speech" by coach K. It was a matter of the haves and the have-nots. I said in the pre-game thread that VA would get into foul trouble on the front cout, and the team as a whole would start to run out of gas and that is exactly what happened. (I also said we'd win by 18, but I can't be right all the time.) Yeah we started to hit shots, but they were totally uncotested because VA just didn't have anything left in the tank to cover the court. And that is the only reason UNC beat VA last week. They just didn't have enough players and fouls to match up with UNC and it took its toll over 40 mintues. I will say that we seemed to spread the court better to make it that much harder for them to cover the distance in the 2nd half, which added to their stamina problems.

That is a very good VA team and I would love to see what they had to offer the ACC if Mike Scott wasn't hurt. THey are well-coached, and and they seem to "get it" on both ends of the floor. If that team had more depth, we and UNC would both be sporting an "L" on the win-loss column courtesy of VA. Let's just be glad this one was at home.

[bluepenguin]

One positive trend? Nolan leads and catalyzes this team.
Nolan also seems to make some really bad plays. His decision making seems to be off at times. And, when Kyrie drives to the hoop, he looks to pass off i.e. that's why Mason's productivity was higher with Kyrie in the game. Nolan doesn't seem to look to pass. He looks to shoot. While that is good, there are times where he really needs to pass instead of forcing something up.

[dairedevil]

I'm listening to my 84 year old mother (Duke '47) talk to my brother about the game, and the season...she says, "I think that we had a chance to win it all until that child stubbed his toe".. Hilarious!

[Scorp4me]

Wish someone knew why Miles isn't playing more. I've always been a bit more impressed with him than Mason, though as most have said it's relative (and I like all our bigs). It always looks like when one is playing well the other isn't, but right now I can't figure out why one isn't playing at all. We certainly need some inside production and limiting our options seems a bad idea.

Disappointed to see alot more of the same today. We'll win alot, but it'll be simply by out-talenting the other team and I know K can do alot more than that. I know our assist to TO has been bad the past few games, interested to know what it's been like since Kyrie got hurt. Nolan can score from anywhere, but playing point is affecting other parts of the game. And no matter what Seth was able to do as a freshman at Liberty while still leading in scoring he isn't the answer for PG.

I'm not sure Tyler is the answer, but it sure would be nice to get a guard in there who plays under control, can free up Nolan, and who can get the bigs more involved like they were earlier in the year.

I see more frustration and hand wringing in our future, lol.

[bluepenguin]

I'm glad we won, but geez for a team ranked number one (that the media was thinking could go undefeated) to have only put up 13 points with 5 minutes left in the half, on their OWN court, against VIRGINIA, well, it is time to put down the blue colored glasses and realistically look at what is happening.

1. Kyrie's absence hurts more than we are letting on. The inside game has disappeared without him. Nolan penetrates well, but he doesn't look to dish off when he penetrates. He looks to score. Kyrie looked for the open man - hence Mason's stats and scoring are markedly lower without Kyrie. Defenses didn't know what to do with Kyrie - if they doubled him on the drive, he passed off. I think defenses play Nolan much tighter and will double or triple up on him when he drives because they watched the game film and know that when he starts his drive he will not be passing off.

2. Rebounding is off without Z. That's a given and we don't expect the P's to be another Z. But come on, we seem to have the ball stripped from us more than it should be on rebounds. And our big guys often seem to be out of position for the rebound. The last few games have shown that a team with a big inside presence can have its way against our guys.

3. Smart ball seems to disappear at times. The first half of this game was one of the worst I have seen by a Duke team in a long time. Not because of missed shots, but because of some really questionable plays, where you had to ask yourself (and I am sure K was too) "What were they thinking." Playing smart is a Duke trademark. I'm not sure what has happened to that lately.

4. Free throw shooting seems to be getting more consistent. That's a big plus. But Mason needs to do better. No big man should be shooting less than 80% from the charity stripe. Heck you get fouled all the time when you play the post. You ought to be practicing your free throw shot from the time you realize you are growing bigger than the other kids. Think Laettner.

The sky isn't falling and Duke will be fine. BUT a performance like this in a tournament will pretty much guaranty an early exit.

[throatybeard]

My counting may be off, but I think it's now 49-11 since here's to never forgetting tonight.

Awesome. And, 28 of the last 31.

[OldPhiKap]

Awesome. And, 28 of the last 31.

Exhibit "A" of why you don't run up the score.




(Unfortunately for us, Exhibit "B" is Spurrier's last regular season game at Carolina).

[94duke]

I'm glad we won, but geez for a team ranked number one (that the media was thinking could go undefeated) to have only put up 13 points with 5 minutes left in the half, on their OWN court, against VIRGINIA, well, it is time to put down the blue colored glasses and realistically look at what is happening.

...

2. Rebounding is off without Z. That's a given and we don't expect the P's to be another Z. But come on, we seem to have the ball stripped from us more than it should be on rebounds. And our big guys often seem to be out of position for the rebound. The last few games have shown that a team with a big inside presence can have its way against our guys.

...

The sky isn't falling and Duke will be fine. BUT a performance like this in a tournament will pretty much guaranty an early exit.

I'm gonna disagree with you about the rebounding. We out-rebounded UVa 42-31 (44-33 with dead ball rebounds). Mason had 16 rebounds, including 6 offensive!
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205077640

I don't think rebounding is one of our problems. UVa certainly did not have their way with us.

[TaiAdmiral]

Hey everybody. Here's our highlights from today's game against Virginia. I WISH we got more of Nolan's dunk...but this will have to do. And of course, Austin Rivers and Shabazz Muhammad both got warm welcomes from the crazies. Enjoy:

http://www.crazie-talk.com/2011/01/15/section-17-next-play/

[DukeDevilDeb]

i too am curious about why miles is getting so little playing time, though i wouldn't say he's playing as well as his brother or even ryan, mostly because mason is rebounding like a modern day cherokee parks out there and r kelly is providing some great ignition with his passing. miles must not be earning his playing time by not going balls out in practice.

Is the statement about Mason intended to be a compliment or criticism? I remember that Cherokee blocked some shots--in fact he blocked a lot of shots! But I don't remember him as a great rebounder.

[El_Diablo]

Is the statement about Mason intended to be a compliment or criticism? I remember that Cherokee blocked some shots--in fact he blocked a lot of shots! But I don't remember him as a great rebounder.

Parks averaged 8.4 rebounds as a junior and 9.3 as a senior.

[jv001]

Parks averaged 8.4 rebounds as a junior and 9.3 as a senior.

Parks was a very good player and one of the quickest leapers that played at Duke. I loved to watch The Chief play. I would love to see Mason be as good as a junior or senior Parks. Go Duke!

[dukelifer]

I'm glad we won, but geez for a team ranked number one (that the media was thinking could go undefeated) to have only put up 13 points with 5 minutes left in the half, on their OWN court, against VIRGINIA, well, it is time to put down the blue colored glasses and realistically look at what is happening.

1. Kyrie's absence hurts more than we are letting on.

The sky isn't falling and Duke will be fine. BUT a performance like this in a tournament will pretty much guaranty an early exit.

Kyrie's absence hurts a ton. You do not lose an NBA quality point guard and not feel it. You need to have a very good to great point guard to be a great team. This Duke team can shoot the ball but when they are off-like today- they really have nothing left to do- at least right now. The big guys are just not there yet. And for folks getting down on Mason- he will get better-he is still figuring it out. If he just rebounds like he did today- he will be a huge help.

So until Kyrie comes back- Duke will be vulnerable. The good thing is Duke has enough fire power to overcome this huge weakness- but it can go bad at any time. Dawkins is key. He is a great shooter- the best pure shooter on this team. He can help this team by also using his mid-range game. Although Thornton will struggle- he may be Duke's best option to run the point- he also brings a defensive toughness. I like Curry but he does not have great court vision and his handle is shaky. Thornton has better vision- but he is not game ready. It really is going to take a team effort to get through this- but expect a very bumpy- unsettling road for a couple weeks until they work through the kinks and pray that Duke can find that run in every game and the toe heals. With Kyrie- this is an excellent team- without him- they are solid- but have a very small margin for victories- even at home. At the beginning of the season- I was worried this team was going to blow out the ACC- get bored and lose focus- well that is all gone. This will be a nail biting season once again and the team will have to get better. Good thing is that K can coach- and these players will figure it out- and if they don't implode- the team will be the better for it.

[Devilsfan]

The first half was the most uninspiring display of Duke basketball since Gaudet was the acting HC. I heard Nolan say that Kyle gave his best impression of Vince Lombardi's halftime speech, but I just assume Coach k said something like "boys and girls please try to play a little better". The first half had the elderly Dukies in the upper section using such terms as "WTF is happening?", "The guys that are on the court must have hijacked Duke uniforms" and "you mean I paid money to see us score 11 points in 14 minutes?". The second half was a little bit better. Also Miles not playing is because as the person next to me explained, "he is Mason without the rebounds".

[Kedsy]

I was thinking the very same thing about Kyle's lack of shots. What is causing this? I don't think that it's good when an AA is not looking for his shots.

Three words: one game sample. Kyle's last four games before today featured him taking 16, 19, 18, and 15 shots. If this happens for four or five more games in a row, then perhaps we can ask what's causing it.


It certainly was a tale of two halves although the first half saw a lot of new looks that this board has asked for in the last few weeks (and especially days).

This is a good point. I also noticed that early in the game we seemed to be feeding the post more than we have recently. I wouldn't call it a complete failure, though, and I don't think it had much if anything to do with our sluggish play in the first half.


Rebounding is off without Z. That's a given and we don't expect the P's to be another Z. But come on, we seem to have the ball stripped from us more than it should be on rebounds. And our big guys often seem to be out of position for the rebound. The last few games have shown that a team with a big inside presence can have its way against our guys.

This is funny. Last year, all we heard for the first four months of the season was how frustrating it was to see rebounds being stripped away from Z. Now he's an icon.

I also don't understand why people keep saying nobody on our team can rebound. In our four ACC games so far (including games against Reggie Johnson, Jordan Williams, and Chris Singleton) Mason has averaged 11.5 rebounds a game, which is slightly better than Z's great streak at the end of the ACC season last year (6 games, starting with his "breakout" against Maryland), in which he averaged 11.3 rebounds a game. Our team has outrebounded its opponent in 3 of our 4 ACC games.


No big man should be shooting less than 80% from the charity stripe.

Wow. There have been a LOT of unsuccessful big men, then. Elton Brand never averaged as high as 80% from the line in his Duke career, nor did Carlos Boozer nor Shelden Williams. Kyle Singler has gotten close, but he's never done it either. And don't get me started on guys like Wilt Chamberlain or Shaquille O'Neal.

It's not just big men, either. On Duke's team last year, only Jon Scheyer averaged as high as 80% from the line. I'm thinking your expectations are just a tad high.

[lotusland]

I wasn't sble to watch the live broadcast but just watched the replay. I think watching the first half must have been much easier knowing that we win by 16 in the end. It seemed like playing VA @home we took the opportunity to work on getting the ball in to the post and also penetrating. Not too much success in the first half but you could see guys looking inside and making extra passes. Too many turnovers and we still ended up shooting too many 3s w/o much success. Kyle in particular seemed to want to get shots closer to the basket and get Mason and Ryan involved. It's not surprising that they struggled trying to play a slightly different style. In the second half Andre, Seth and Nolan all got inside for baskets and we even got some post ups and stick backs which opened up the perimeter even more. Hopefully we continue to improve our penetrating and post play but I'm not convinced that our bigs would have had much success against FL State had we played them again instead of VA.

[davekay1971]

Watching that entire painful first half, the thing I kept thinking was that everyone just looked tentative (possibly except for Nolan). The defense looked uncertain, and on offense they looked like they were thinking through it rather than just playing. Then, in the second half, thanks to some nice defensive stops and steals, the offense got into a flow. Players, especially Andre and Seth, stopped looking tentative and just played.

In basketball, playing tentative is disastrous. You hesitate on passes, leading to turnovers, you miss shots you normally hit, you fumble balls out of bounds. Basically everything we were doing in the first half.

I'm almost glad the team didn't come storming out in the second half, because that would have told me that it was Coach K kicking their butts at half time that did it. Instead they figured it out themselves, through amping up the defense.

Clearly the team is going to struggle to score at times this season. Losing Kyrie not only deprives us of an NBA caliber playmaker, it also deprives us of one of our top 3 scorers (our leading scorer at the time he went down) and our best player at getting to the rim (a great way to score when the outside shots aren't falling).

OK, so we'll see some stretches of basketball like we saw in the first half against Virginia and the whole game against FSU, especially when we're playing against really good defenses. To get where we want to be this year, we need to play great defense, which will both key our offense through open looks and transition points, and give us more margin for error when the shots aren't falling as well as we would like.

[bluepenguin]

Wow. There have been a LOT of unsuccessful big men, then. Elton Brand never averaged as high as 80% from the line in his Duke career, nor did Carlos Boozer nor Shelden Williams. Kyle Singler has gotten close, but he's never done it either. And don't get me started on guys like Wilt Chamberlain or Shaquille O'Neal.

It's not just big men, either. On Duke's team last year, only Jon Scheyer averaged as high as 80% from the line. I'm thinking your expectations are just a tad high.

Elton Brand in his 2 seasons averaged 67.2%. Carlos Boozer, 74.1%. Williams averaged 69.1% and in his last season improved to 74.4%. Singler is at 76.6% You forgot to mention Gminski at 79.2% and Laettner at 80.6%
Brand's FT was a big knock on him as it was on Williams. And of course, O'Neal's FT shooting was a joke. Teams used to hack him on purpose in a close game to keep him from getting an easy basket and putting him on the line for an easy turnover.

You crack me up. Nobody said these big men were "unsuccessful". The point that was being made, that you conveniently overlooked by getting lost in numbers is that big men who play under the basket get fouled a lot and should be good free throw shooters. Mason Plumlee shot .543 last season and .422 so far this season. That is ridiculous for a 6-11 center. Miles is not much better at .545, .661, and .560 for his three seasons. Those guys should have been working on their free throw shooting technique quite some time ago.

[diveonthefloor]

The first half was the most uninspiring display of Duke basketball since Gaudet was the acting HC. I heard Nolan say that Kyle gave his best impression of Vince Lombardi's halftime speech, but I just assume Coach k said something like "boys and girls please try to play a little better".

I have read through all the links on DBR's front page, and many are referencing a forceful, unscripted halftime speech by Kyle to his teammates. I know none of us were in the locker room, and certainly no reporters were there....but does anyone with contacts to some of the players know a little bit more about the content of Kyle's speech? Was he angry? Was there some salty language? What exactly did he say to get their attention?

Whatever the case, of all the thing to remember about the UVA game, and all the things to build upon for the rest of the ACC season....the "speech" may be among the most impactful.

[diveonthefloor]

Oh, and by the way, although I know he doesn't read the boards....

A HUGE THANK YOU to Kyle and his teammates for turning the game around...

I brought my son from Memphis to Durham for our annual father-son pilgrimage, and throughout the first 2/3 of the game I was trying to figure out how to lighten the mood for the trip home if we couldn't figure out how to turn the game around....

Luckily, Kyle et al saved me from having to figure that out!!:cool:

[Saratoga2]

For the long term fans, it is worth remembering that when Nolan arrived he was a good scorer but somewhat passive. Maybe we compared him to Daniel Ewing. What he has done is grown into one of the best scoring guards in the country. Every year he has improved. He has gotten so he can play a full forty minutes without a noticable drop off in the level of his play. Virtually all aspects of his game have improved. The statistics are there and support the idea that he continues to improve.

With that said, I think we are also watching the improvement of Andre. He is a little bigger and stronger than Nolan and has a very sweet stroke. If he continues to improve, as Nolan has, he will be an absolute force in the future and very good this year.

I see the same with Seth as his confidence, ball handling and shooting are improving game to game. Perhaps we expected more of him since he had a year at Liberty and a year of practice with Duke. The difference is now he is playing against very good competition and also with good to great players.

Kyrie came in with unique abilities and already was at a high level in his first year. Still, it is frightening to think of how good he could get with improvement.

Lets all be patient with these guys since good things are happening as the season moves along.

[dukeluv]

After seeing last 3 home games it is hard to say we are a #1 team without Kyrie.
Virginia lost steam in 2nd half unlike Maryland being able to compete til end.

I wonder why on offense they are not trying to pass more and set up shots in lane etc. BUt when I watch and see Smith and Singler are only ones who can Finnish if they get ball or rebound under basket I understand. I hope Miles and Mason can get stronger as it will be hard to play teams with big strong men. Funny that Nolan is the one making game changing dunks being shortest etc.

I know why Coach K is telling media that team is rebuilding with out Irving. He is doing a great job motivating and keeping the boys in position to win.

Not sure why 1st halves at home have been so tough to make baskets. Watching so many 3 pointers ding the rim is tough but they keep throwing them up there. I also worry about how many minutes Smith and Singler play. Has to be hard physically especially when shooting 3's!

[ncexnyc]

After a day of work and an evening of movie time with the wife, I was finally able to watch the game. There definitely is a huge discrepancy between in game posting and the reality of what actually is taking place on the court.

The team did make a solid effort to work the ball into the post. Unfortunately, UVa was well prepared for this and on nearly all of these attempts we were met with a quick double down. I give credit to our kids for realizing this and not forcing the issue. they did a great job of quickly hitting the wide open man. Early on our shooters had wide open shots, but they just didn't fall. That's vastly different from the other night against FSU, when our kids had an FSU defender's arm in their face on nearly every attempt. These were very good looks so I really can't fault our team for taking these shots.

We did have several nice moves by Kelly, although he didn't convert. He'll get better at these as will Mason the more opportunities they get.

My only issue with the way we played in the 1st half was on the defensive side of the ball. Several times the kids lost their man, but that's been going on all year and yesterday UVa made us pay as they shot extremely well from beyond the arc in the 1st half.

In the second half the effort was better on the defensive end. A lot more intensity, but still a few missed assignments. The offense started hitting those same 3's they had missed in the 1st half and we got several run outs, which were converted. The loss of Sene once he got his 4th foul was the nail in the UVa coffin, as they were just to small to compete.

[dukepsy1963]

Seems to me (and I am no expert by any means) the key to beating us right now is to stay in our faces on the outside and don't worry about the inside. And let Nolan get his inside points. This seems to work at the present time, but I don't think it will be the case pretty soon.

[El_Diablo]

After seeing last 3 home games it is hard to say we are a #1 team without Kyrie.

But there aren't exactly any other juggernauts in college basketball right now.

OSU will likely take over the top spot, but they're not really steamrolling the competition right now: 4-0 in January, but every game was decided by five points or less.

Kansas might be #2 this week, but their last few games included: overtime win against Michigan, 5-point win against Iowa State, and a 3-point at home against Nebraska.

Syracuse is playing well right now and has beaten up on the lower-half of the Big East (as well as the fraudulent Cincinnati Bearcats). But this is the same Syracuse team whose nonconference schedule included narrow victories over William and Mary (3 points), Michigan (3), GT (4), NC State (6, without Tracy Smith), and Iona (6).

[moonpie23]

a little over a year ago, i felt the "state of the sinking feeling" every time Zoubs (and lance for the most part) came into the game.....

I remember thinking, "these guys are NOT going to get it.....they simply CANNOT perform on the level needed for winning."


we're 15-1.....i'm good..

[DUKIE V(A)]

Count me amongst those who is not as concerned about the play of our big men as many others. Unfortunately, as fans we often judge players on their scoring production, as opposed to the other aspects of their games. I submit that to judge our big guys on this measure is particularly unfair given that the offense revolves around Singler and our guards (as it should). Ever play a pick up game when your main opportunity to score was on put backs? Tough to do even when you have a huge edge over the guy covering you.

I am very pleased with Mason's work on the boards -- he has been dominant lately. Perhaps one reason Miles is getting less time is that Mason has been a beast on the glass and we can't afford to have him sittting as much. IMO, Kelly's all-around play is way underrated by the vast majority of posters. Also, Miles seems to be a much improved as a defender over last season. All three of these guys are team first, class acts. Let's let the season play out before we are so quick to criticize.

[hurley1]

If Mason can start finishing like he is rebounding, school is out........the 3's just weren't falling early yesterday, something that we can't start doing......

[jipops]

Elton Brand in his 2 seasons averaged 67.2%. Carlos Boozer, 74.1%. Williams averaged 69.1% and in his last season improved to 74.4%. Singler is at 76.6% You forgot to mention Gminski at 79.2% and Laettner at 80.6%
Brand's FT was a big knock on him as it was on Williams. And of course, O'Neal's FT shooting was a joke. Teams used to hack him on purpose in a close game to keep him from getting an easy basket and putting him on the line for an easy turnover.

You crack me up. Nobody said these big men were "unsuccessful". The point that was being made, that you conveniently overlooked by getting lost in numbers is that big men who play under the basket get fouled a lot and should be good free throw shooters. Mason Plumlee shot .543 last season and .422 so far this season. That is ridiculous for a 6-11 center. Miles is not much better at .545, .661, and .560 for his three seasons. Those guys should have been working on their free throw shooting technique quite some time ago.

Yes - .545, .661, and .560 are very poor ft percentages, maybe even ridiculous. But your previous post stated that no big man should be shooting anything less than .80. In that case you are more often going to be disappointed in what reality can achieve.

[cptnflash]

Favored by 21. Outscored 'em by 22 in the 2nd half. Must've been a nice halftime speech.

Just watched the highlights on Duke Blue Planet's YouTube channel. Nolan and Kyrie mentioned a passionate halftime speech by Kyle Singler as a big reason why the team turned it around in the second half. Huge, huge, HUGE. Despite being very competitive on the court, Kyle has always struck me as fairly introverted off of it. Vocal leadership doesn't appear to come naturally to him, the way it did for Jon and Lance (and many others before them). I know one of Kyle's goals for this season was to work on his leadership, and obviously he's got the best possible teacher in that regard in Coach K, but I'm still pleasantly surprised to hear that he stepped up and addressed the team personally at an absolutely critical moment. Way to go, Kyle!!

[bluepenguin]

Yes - .545, .661, and .560 are very poor ft percentages, maybe even ridiculous. But your previous post stated that no big man should be shooting anything less than .80. In that case you are more often going to be disappointed in what reality can achieve.
I change it from 80% to 79%.

[Kedsy]

You crack me up. Nobody said these big men were "unsuccessful". The point that was being made, that you conveniently overlooked by getting lost in numbers is that big men who play under the basket get fouled a lot and should be good free throw shooters.

I agree Mason should try to work on improving his free throw shooting, and I neither overlooked anything nor have any idea what point you were attempting to make. The point I was attempting to make is that the following statement (by you) is, in my opinion, unsupportable:


No big man should be shooting less than 80% from the charity stripe.

And I assume you were joking, but if not the following is obviously (at least to me) still unsupportable. Very few big men shoot that well from the line, so to say "no big man should" shoot worse than that is fantasyland.


I change it from 80% to 79%.

[Neals384]

Watching that entire painful first half, the thing I kept thinking was that everyone just looked tentative (possibly except for Nolan).

Yes, TENTATIVE is the word for our scoring woes. Against UVA, it seemed like players would receive the ball, and, not having an open shot...hold the ball while figuring out what to do next.

Basketball is sometimes like a chess match - you have to have your next move figured out ahead of time. Shoot, drive, or pass it along, but do it quickly.

My glass is half empty on this game. UVA played hard, and are well coached, but their defense is nowhere near as good as FSU or even MD. There's no reason we should have had trouble scoring.

[Saratoga2]

Yes, TENTATIVE is the word for our scoring woes. Against UVA, it seemed like players would receive the ball, and, not having an open shot...hold the ball while figuring out what to do next.

Basketball is sometimes like a chess match - you have to have your next move figured out ahead of time. Shoot, drive, or pass it along, but do it quickly.

My glass is half empty on this game. UVA played hard, and are well coached, but their defense is nowhere near as good as FSU or even MD. There's no reason we should have had trouble scoring.

We are now progressing into phase III and it has become clear that, while the ACC is down in talent this year, there are many teams that are competitive and well coached. Duke, Virginia and VT have suffered from the injury bug while others have been missing players for shorter time frames. It appears Duke still has the best back court and is deep at guard, however, there are several other teams whose front court looks superior to ours.

As typically happens during the ACC season, coach K shortens his lineup rotation. That appears to be centered now on two lineups, depending on the opposing matchups. In both lineups, coach K appears to have Nolan and Kyle playing 40 minutes. Opposing teams know that is where our main scoring comes from so those two guys get the best defenders and are closely guarded. Remarkably, they have been able to get 40 points or more in all recent ACC games (39 in one). Playing them for 40 minutes means it is difficult to ask them to press on defense for a significant time. Even super conditioned athletes have limits.

Our small lineup with Nolan, Kyle, Andre, Seth and Mason has been effective when used against smaller teams line Virginia. The key subs in that lineup are Tyler and Kelly. Tyler to put a solid ball handler with fresh legs and a defensive mind set into the game and Kelly, since big men need subs and he has the ability to put up a few points. I think the key is for our secondary scorers to remain aggressive. Dawkins in particular needs to take the mindset that if he gets an opening he needs to try to score. I noted some hesitancy with him in the Maryland game, perhaps after that coaches seemed to be asking for the ball to go inside. When he plays with assurance, his defense and offense are much better. Seth doesn't have to be told to get his points although he is still trying to workout when to drive and dish and when to try to finish. We really need at least 15 ppg from these two when they play significant minutes.

Our big lineup still has Nolan and Kyle, but goes with Kelly, Mason and Seth. In that case, our primary substitutes are Andre and Miles, with Josh and Tyler getting very limited minutes. To compete against teams with big physical frontcourts like FSU we need out bigs to play tough and rebound. In that case we need Kyle , Nolan and Seth as the primary scorers.

Our hopes going forward are for Dawkins and Curry to show improvement in their consistency and for Mason and Kelly to continue to improve in general. Mason's rebounding and reduction in his fouling are encouraging while Kelly is showing signs of generating some consistent offense. Long ways to go for both, but it is encouraging.

[cptnflash]

I have been a frequent critic of Mason Plumlee, so it's important for me to give credit where it is due. I just re-watched the game, and I firmly believe that Mason played the best defensive game of his Blue Devil career on Saturday. Not because of all the rebounds, most of which were uncontested or very lightly contested. No, the real reason is that he played smart, effective, team-oriented position defense. He stopped trying to block everything. I've never seen him make so many smart plays, and do such a good job of being in the right position defensively. He even had a couple of nice finishes around the rim on offense. If this is the start of a trend (fingers crossed), it'll really help our chances of getting back to the final four. So Mason, if you're listening, from someone who has been one of your most vocal critics - way to go, kid!!