Question on McRoberts and Hansbrough

[NYC Duke Fan]

Was Duke recruiting both players and did Coach K have his choice of either one ? If so than Coach K made a big mistake.

It was always written here that McRoberts had more potential than Hansbrough, which in the long run could be true, but there is no question at all that Hansbrough is and was a much better college player.

[dukeENG2003]

Its hard to argue that he made a mistake if this was indeed the case (I'm not sure that it was), considering the information that he had. McRoberts SCHOOLED Hansborough in head to head matchups in high school, and was the McD's game MVP.

[johnnydakota]

o.k., I'll bite, although this feels like I'm in a time warp. Hans is clearly a better scorer than Josh. Rebounding is a wash. Josh is superior as a passer, ball handler and defender/shot blocker. Josh is longer and a better athlete while Hans is much stronger and more aggressive. Hans played in his natural position, surrounded by other capable post players and top notch playmakers. Josh was surrounded by zero other post players, a less than 100%, slow point guard, and no other consistent play makers. Don't kid yourself, the supporting cast discrepency was vast and played a huge role in the infamous "chemistry issues" and the pressure that each faced. If Hans plays poorly, UNC still wins and nobody says "boo". If Josh has an off night, Duke loses and he's thrown under the bus by spoiled fans. Hans will not be a scorer like that at the next level, while Josh's attributes will be more valuable around other capable scorers/creators. Gotta love a loyal Duke fan.

[Olympic Fan]

It's not as simple as saying K picked Josh over Tyler and thus made a big mistake.

Coaches, including K (and Roy and almost everybody else) look at and contact a lot of kids early and try to guage their interest. In McRoberts' case, he responded very strongly to K's first inquiries and made it clear that he was very interested in Duke.

In Hansbrough's case, he showed little interest (who knows for what reason) early and Duke chose not to pursue him. It's not that they didn't like his game or want him ... they just didn't get the feedback that suggested it would be worth the time and money to spend pursuing him.

There are cases when K picks between two players that both want to come. I remember when he turned down Casey Jacobsen (who became a star at Stanford) because he wanted Mike Dunleavy instead. He turned down Anthony Roberson (who became a big scorer at Florida) because he wanted Sean Dockery.

But no matter what some commentators say, K doesn't get to pick and choose who he wants. He took Josh because he was a great prospect who was interested in Duke. He didn't pursue Hansbrough even though he was a great prospect because there was little or no reciprocal interest.

Hard as it is to believe, not every kid is dying to play for Duke.

[jimsumner]

Why would anyone assume that K had his choice of either one? There was mutual interest sure. But not every single high school player in the country grows up dreaming of playing for Duke. Mike Krzyzewski does not, never has, and never will "select" recruits. Pet peeve.

That said, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Tyler Hansbrough is a better college basketball player than Josh McRoberts.

[SilkyJ]

o.k., I'll bite, although this feels like I'm in a time warp. Hans is clearly a better scorer than Josh. Rebounding is a wash. Josh is superior as a passer, ball handler and defender/shot blocker. Josh is longer and a better athlete while Hans is much stronger and more aggressive. Hans played in his natural position, surrounded by other capable post players and top notch playmakers. Josh was surrounded by zero other post players, a less than 100%, slow point guard, and no other consistent play makers. Don't kid yourself, the supporting cast discrepency was vast and played a huge role in the infamous "chemistry issues" and the pressure that each faced. If Hans plays poorly, UNC still wins and nobody says "boo". If Josh has an off night, Duke loses and he's thrown under the bus by spoiled fans. Hans will not be a scorer like that at the next level, while Josh's attributes will be more valuable around other capable scorers/creators. Gotta love a loyal Duke fan.

Clearly you are forgetting Hansblah's freshman year when there was preseason talk of UNC not even making the tournament and they finished the year ranked in the top 15! Hans was surrounded by David Noel, Wes Miller, Quentin Thomas, Reyshawn Terry, and Freshmen Bobby Frasor/Danny Green/Marcus Ginyard. Tyler CARRIED that team and was one of the best players in the league as a freshman.

[bhd28]

Clearly you are forgetting Hansblah's freshman year when there was preseason talk of UNC not even making the tournament and they finished the year ranked in the top 15! Hans was surrounded by David Noel, Wes Miller, Quentin Thomas, Reyshawn Terry, and Freshmen Bobby Frasor/Danny Green/Marcus Ginyard. Tyler CARRIED that team and was one of the best players in the league as a freshman.

Tyler, Schmyler... I want to know why Coach didn't just select Oden and Durant to come to Duke this past year. Big mistake by him IMHO. ;)

[jaimedun34]

Tyler is obviously a better college player than McRoberts, but they are different types of players in different situations.

[kydevil]

Tyler, Schmyler... I want to know why Coach didn't just select Oden and Durant to come to Duke this past year. Big mistake by him IMHO. ;)

Great Post! :D

[johnnydakota]

Clearly you are forgetting Hansblah's freshman year when there was preseason talk of UNC not even making the tournament and they finished the year ranked in the top 15! Hans was surrounded by David Noel, Wes Miller, Quentin Thomas, Reyshawn Terry, and Freshmen Bobby Frasor/Danny Green/Marcus Ginyard. Tyler CARRIED that team and was one of the best players in the league as a freshman.

I haven't forgotten; he was outstanding. As I said earlier, Hans is a superior scorer, which is what that team needed. His supporting cast, I would submit, filled a heckuvalot more roles than did Josh's last year. Josh was depended on for more last year than Hans ever would or could be, at any level. He had to play only minimal minutes, didn't have to pass much (much less run an offense), had help both defensively and on the boards, and ALWAYS got the ball in scoring position. If he got in foul trouble, he had help. None of the above was true for Josh last year. My point is that Josh is far from the disappointment the original poster would have you believe. The casual fan sees scoring as the beginning and end of evaluating a player. Hans is a superior scorer, and plays to win. Josh brings many skills to the table and is a great compliment, but is not a primary scoring star. Make no mistake, however, he comes to win as well, and Duke will miss him this year.

[mepanchin]

Hansbrough and McRoberts would likely have played really well side by side if they both came to Duke

[SilkyJ]

As I said earlier, Hans is a superior scorer, which is what that team needed. His supporting cast, I would submit, filled a heckuvalot more roles than did Josh's last year. Josh was depended on for more last year than Hans ever would or could be, at any level.

I disagree that Han's supporting cast as a freshman was better than Josh's was last year, and I don't think any sane person will disagree with me Hans had maybe one or two All-Americans and Josh was surrounded by them, AND he had them coming off the bench. Do you really think a backcourt of Wes Miller and Bobby Frasor is better than Paulus and Scheyer. Are you kidding me? Noel/Terry are a push against McClure/Nelson (MAYBE a slight edge to Noel/Terry, but VERY slight) Not to mention he had Lance and Zou coming off the bench to back him up specifically. I get to who Tyler had coming off the bench below (spoiler alert: its no one).

I get what you are saying about Josh having to fill more "roles" as a captain, and helping bring the ball up, using his passing ability, etc. But at the end of the day winning is what matters and Hans helped an AWEFUL team win A LOT.



He had to play only minimal minutes, didn't have to pass much (much less run an offense), had help both defensively and on the boards, and ALWAYS got the ball in scoring position. If he got in foul trouble, he had help. None of the above was true for Josh last year.


Here is where you lose me. You call 30mpg minimal?

And who did tyler have to help him off the bench? You probably have no idea, but thats because their names are Byron Sanders and Mike Copeland and no one has heard of them.

[jacone21]

This thread got me thinking...

What's the over/under on how many replays of the Henderson Incident we'll be treated to next year. 100? 75? I can't wait!

[3rdgenDukie]

I disagree that Han's supporting cast as a freshman was better than Josh's was last year, and I don't think any sane person will disagree with me Hans had maybe one or two All-Americans and Josh was surrounded by them, AND he had them coming off the bench. Do you really think a backcourt of Wes Miller and Bobby Frasor is better than Paulus and Scheyer. Are you kidding me? Noel/Terry are a push against McClure/Nelson (MAYBE a slight edge to Noel/Terry, but VERY slight) Not to mention he had Lance and Zou coming off the bench to back him up specifically. I get to who Tyler had coming off the bench below (spoiler alert: its no one).

I get what you are saying about Josh having to fill more "roles" as a captain, and helping bring the ball up, using his passing ability, etc. But at the end of the day winning is what matters and Hans helped an AWEFUL team win A LOT.



Here is where you lose me. You call 30mpg minimal?

And who did tyler have to help him off the bench? You probably have no idea, but thats because their names are Byron Sanders and Mike Copeland and no one has heard of them.

For the record, both David Noel (who was a GREAT senior leader/4 year starter/key sub) and Reyshawn Terry are/will be NBA players. Nelson/McClure...not so much (I hope Markie is, but I think its <50%). Furthermore, Duke this past season was better than than UNC was two years ago. College hoops was better, the ACC was MUCH better, and Duke played a tougher schedule. Hansbrough had no one to help off the bench last year, and Josh had no one this year.

Hansbrough is a better college player, but the gap is much smaller than conventional wisdom.

[johnnydakota]

I disagree that Han's supporting cast as a freshman was better than Josh's was last year, and I don't think any sane person will disagree with me Hans had maybe one or two All-Americans and Josh was surrounded by them, AND he had them coming off the bench. Do you really think a backcourt of Wes Miller and Bobby Frasor is better than Paulus and Scheyer. Are you kidding me? Noel/Terry are a push against McClure/Nelson (MAYBE a slight edge to Noel/Terry, but VERY slight) Not to mention he had Lance and Zou coming off the bench to back him up specifically. I get to who Tyler had coming off the bench below (spoiler alert: its no one).

I would say that Miller/Frasor is a push with a recovering Paulus/Scheyer. Scheyer was a great spot up shooter but gave nothing to the flow of the offense otherwise. Upperclassmen Terry and Noel were infinitely more helpful inside to Hans than McClure/Nelson/Zoubek/Thomas. Not even close. Both of those two averaged more than 6 boards per game, scored double figures, and were strong.

Yes, I call 29+ minutes for a marquee player minimal. Josh was 35+, which is a big difference, especially for a 4 or 5. This past year, Hans could go full bore, get double the rest Josh would get, and had the luxury of help from several outstanding post players. Add to that the perimeter advantages they had, and I rest my case. Again, Hans has been a great scorer/warrior. Josh has been much better than many would give him credit for, and under more difficult circumstances to boot. Different talents, different situations. Scorers get the pub.

[VaDukie]

Here's the big reason you can't compare what Tyler did as a Freshmen and what Josh did as a sophmore - the ACC was dramatically improved last season. We had what, 7 teams in the tournament? Plus and NC State team that with Atsur could beat anybody? Compare that with 2006, where us, BC, and UNC were solid, and State limped into the tournament.

Tyler is clearly the better college player, but I'd bet Josh has a productive NBA career and T goes the way of Montross, bouncing around the league for awhile before drifting into UNC radio obscurity.

[sandinmyshoes]

Trying to disparage what Hansbrough did as a freshman based on a weaker ACC that year has one major stumbling block, the game in Cameron.

As for the Josh/Tyler comparisons, Josh has all the physical tools and skills to win that one. He could well blossom in the NBA if he gets on the right team. The only thing to keep in mind is that a lot of players really, really want to win. Some players though just have an obsessive will to win. Guys like Carawell and Laetner have that will. It's pretty obvious that Hansbrough has it as well. Josh is competitive, but he seems a notch below the other guys.

[Wander]

As I said earlier, Hans is a superior scorer, which is what that team needed.

Hans is a superior scorer, and plays to win.

You keep saying Hansbrough is a superior scorer. You're skirting around the issue. Hansbrough is a better college basketball player than McRoberts. Period. This is not arguable at all.

All your arguments about teammates and roles aren't relevant. Hansbrough could have Michael Jordan and Steve Nash as teammates and play 5 minutes per game in the Big Sky conference. That wouldn't change that fact that he's clearly the better college basketball player.

[kydevil]

Everyone keeps saying that McRoberts will have the better Nba career. Now don't get me wrong i'm not saying that he won't but what evidence do we have that says he will be a productive Nba player. In a lot of games this year he was outplayed by the opposing teams big men. Now if your getting beat by players in college how does he expect to make it in the big league?
So let me ask you this what kind of role will Josh be in the league. I don't think right now he can be a down low scorer or an outside oriented big man. Yes he can pass and dribble, but that can only get you so far. Im not writing this to diss Josh at all, I like him and he has potential. I just don't think right now you can keep saying Josh will have the better career than Hans. I can't stand Hans at all just like the rest of us but you have to admire how hard he plays. Talent will only get Josh so far, he is more skilled than Hans but until he can get a killer instinct I can't say he will have a better Nba career.

[johnnydakota]

You keep saying Hansbrough is a superior scorer. You're skirting around the issue. Hansbrough is a better college basketball player than McRoberts. Period. This is not arguable at all.

All your arguments about teammates and roles aren't relevant. Hansbrough could have Michael Jordan and Steve Nash as teammates and play 5 minutes per game in the Big Sky conference. That wouldn't change that fact that he's clearly the better college basketball player.

If it's not arguable, then why argue it? Different circumstances, different abilities, different everything. I never said Josh was a better college player, did I? I do think Josh is a more complete player, just not as good of a scorer. I think those skills can allow him to get better and better. I've given my opinion of Hans, but I think his ceiling is lower. If he can score like that in the league, great, and I'll be impressed. But if he can't, what else will he bring to the table? In a year or two of getting stronger and working on things, Josh has a chance to be really good. Gee, by then he'll be the age Hans is now. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and mine is that it was not a mistake to bring Josh to Duke. I enjoyed watching him and I think he could have been an all-timer if he'd stayed 4 years.

[Truth]

That said, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Tyler Hansbrough is a better college basketball player than Josh McRoberts.

This may belong in another thread, but there is (virtually) no doubt in my mind that Josh McRoberts will be a better NBA basketball player than Tyler Hansbrough.

Too bad Duke uses college players... ;-)

[SilkyJ]

If it's not arguable, then why argue it? Different circumstances, different abilities, different everything. I never said Josh was a better college player, did I? I do think Josh is a more complete player, just not as good of a scorer. I think those skills can allow him to get better and better. I've given my opinion of Hans, but I think his ceiling is lower. If he can score like that in the league, great, and I'll be impressed. But if he can't, what else will he bring to the table? In a year or two of getting stronger and working on things, Josh has a chance to be really good. Gee, by then he'll be the age Hans is now. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and mine is that it was not a mistake to bring Josh to Duke. I enjoyed watching him and I think he could have been an all-timer if he'd stayed 4 years.

I agree with this post much more. With Josh's skill set he certainly can develop into a much better player. His ceiling is definitely higher. And, like you, I enjoyed watching him play and am glad he came here.

[mapei]

Echo that.

[Krimson King]

Josh 2 biggest weaknesses are:

1)no jumpshot
2)crappy attitude

I dont think Josh ever took the program seriously.
It looked to me like he was more concerned with looking cool than winning.

Hansborough would walk thru fire to get a rebound. Gotta love his take no prisoners attitude

[johnnydakota]

Well, there you have it. You've got to appreciate an insider's knowledge and expertise. My only regret is that it's his first post. Where have you been all my life?

[Krimson King]

saigon...and you?

[johnnydakota]

Well, thanks for your service. That hardly gives you the credibility to say what you did, however. I'll take a guy who cares about winning as much as he does any day of the week. As far as "taking the program seriously", how can you say that about a kid who risked top 5 status not once, but twice because he wanted to play and win at Duke so badly?

[kydevil]

Well, thanks for your service. That hardly gives you the credibility to say what you did, however. I'll take a guy who cares about winning as much as he does any day of the week. As far as "taking the program seriously", how can you say that about a kid who risked top 5 status not once, but twice because he wanted to play and win at Duke so badly?

I wouldn't say Josh risked top 5 status twice. I don't know how early they had him going coming out of high school but after his fresh year they said he was prolly a lottery pick.

Just because it's someones first post doesn't mean they have no credibilty. However in his case he didn't really have a good arguement.

[mapei]

I think Josh looked a little lost at Duke during his freshman year, not quite able to fit in with Shel and, in the tradition of Duke big men, getting into ridiculous foul trouble early and often.

Last year, I don't think that was the case at all. I thought he was easily the team's MVP, though I also have to concede that isn't saying much compared to what we've come to expect.