Carolina 64, VT 61

[Tappan Zee Devil]

Surprised that there is not already a thread.

As much as I detest Va. Tech, 28-14 looks very nice at this point.

Been working in the kitchen (no jokes please) so not able to follow in detail, but unnch doesn't seem engaged.

Jim

[BlueandWhite]

Surprised that there is not already a thread.

As much as I detest Va. Tech, 28-14 looks very nice at this point.

Been working in the kitchen (no jokes please) so not able to follow in detail, but unnch doesn't seem engaged.

Jim

From the few minutes of this game that I've bothered watching...what an awful half of college basketball. This is the ACC? Carolina's guard play is atrocious.

[Vincetaylor]

Totally unwatchable. Almost every ACC game has been so far, including Duke's.

[dukeballboy88]

Ive had trouble sleeping so I turned this game on and after 5 minutes I cant keep my eyes open anymore. Thanks tarheels I needed it.

[sagegrouse]

Well, I left the dinner table to watch the game with VPI ahead by 16. UNC scored nine in a row to draw it down to seven at the half.

I may go back to the table for dessert.

sagegrouse

[BlueandWhite]

Totally unwatchable. Almost every ACC game has been so far, including Duke's.

Honestly, this season's ACC really may be the weakest in the conference's history, with so many mediocre or just plain bad (Wake, GT) teams.

[ncexnyc]

Well, I left the dinner table to watch the game with VPI ahead by 16. UNC scored nine in a row to draw it down to seven at the half.

I may go back to the table for dessert.

sagegrouse
And don't forget the after dinner drink.;)

[Duvall]

Well, I left the dinner table to watch the game with VPI ahead by 16. UNC scored nine in a row to draw it down to seven at the half.

I may go back to the table for dessert.

sagegrouse

This game is ova (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZdL9PxKQ8E). UNC will win easily.

[jv001]

VT is getting some "home cooking" from these refs. Oh, but Duke get's all the calls. GoDuke!

[DukieInBrasil]

why does Drew II ever play? Marshall is so much obviously the better player that it is just ludicrous for him not to play. Marshall after 40 strait minutes is better than a fresh LD II. Perhaps LD II could play alongside KM, but he should never sub for him.

[Duke1986]

Jay Bilas: "This is one you put in a time capsule and then lose the map."

[kong123]

why does Drew II ever play? Marshall is so much obviously the better player that it is just ludicrous for him not to play. Marshall after 40 strait minutes is better than a fresh LD II. Perhaps LD II could play alongside KM, but he should never sub for him.

the writing is on the wall, the only one who doesn't see it is Roy. LDII sees it, it cripples him.

[DukieInBrasil]

that was the first time that Barnes has impressed me. He hit a nice little jumper in the lane and then nailed a secondary break 3.
edit: and again with a key 3 with a minute left. Impressive.

[loran16]

First of all, this is why you DONT START THREADS UNTIL AT LEAST THE SECOND HALF PEOPLE. (Not that I believe in jinxing, but you just end up looking silly). (Well I do believe in Jinxes).

Second, of course Barnes starts hitting 3s. Of Course. If VT had ANY BENCH, they could get back into this by fouling Henson constantly.

(Also, i don't get how Delaney can be accurate with such a high arcing shot. So bad.)

[loran16]

My God. VT is so dumb. BLATANT CHARGE. Seth can't you teach your players to not be stupid?

[dukebluelemur]

Officials bailing out the holes. Zeller draws a charge with his head directly under the basket. (So no Loran, it was not a blatant charge, since the defender has no right to that spot.)

[loran16]

Officials bailing out the holes. Zeller draws a charge with his head directly under the basket.

Don't blame the refs for that call. There's no circle painted, making Refs calling a block there so unlikely, and he was BEYOND planted.

EDIT: I'm not saying by the rules you're not correct. But with No circle painted (something i bet changes next year), the refs will call charge 9 times out of 10. The only time refs notice the circle now is when a player slides under neath at the last second. But he was planted for whole seconds.

[dukebluelemur]

Don't blame the refs for that call. There's no circle painted, making Refs calling a block there so unlikely, and he was BEYOND planted.

Yes there should be a circle. It would help the refs be something but completely arbitrary on those calls. BUT it was still the wrong call, by a wide margin. He was directly under the basket.

[loran16]

And Delaney is a moron. Why WOULD YOU TAKE A THREE WITH EIGHT MORE SECONDS AND A ONE POINT DEFICIT?!?!?

[kong123]

And Delaney is a moron. Why WOULD YOU TAKE A THREE WITH EIGHT MORE SECONDS AND A ONE POINT DEFICIT?!?!?

maybe because he is 7 for 12 from 3? he has only made one 2 point basket.

[loran16]

maybe because he is 7 for 12 from 3? he has only made one 2 point basket.

Ah the love of small sample sizes. Delaney is 48% from 2, 42% from 3. A Two, even just inside the arc, is a higher percentage shot. Instead he took a 3, with marshall in his face (GJ by Marshall there, to be fair), WITH PLENTY OF TIME TO TRY AND GET A BETTER SHOT.

This isn't to insult Marshall's Defense on the play, which was great. But well, it was obvious who was taking the shot and he just isn't smart about it. Delaney thinks that he can sink anything way too often, resulting in bad attempts. Why not try to pass the ball and get it back off a screen?

[DukieInBrasil]

Their guard play, aside from Marshall, was/is TERRIBLE!!! I mean, they combined for 2-21 from the field! Marshall was brilliant, 9pts, 9asts and 0 turns.
HB had a pretty respectable game (minus the 6 turns), and hit some incredibly huge shots near the end, w/o those baskets UNC doesn't win. Credit where credit is due and all.
If VT had anything approaching depth and/or healthy bodies, they win the game easily. UNC has NOBODY of Delaney's quality, especially in the G category. Even with all that advantage in the frontcourt, UNC still couldn't take advantage cuz they played 16 minutes with LD II at the point and he can't get the ball inside to save his life. Henson and TZ combined for 15-22 FGs and 17 rebs, which is very good, but with a good PG for 40 minutes they could have easily scored 20-25 buckets.
UNC looks like they will not be #2 in the ACC, perhaps a lower half of the ACC team. However, if Ol' Roy gets smart and begins playing Marshall exclusively they could radically alter that perception. There is no reason why LD II should ever play to the exclusion of KM, perhaps alongside him, but never instead of. KM after 40 strait minutes is better than a perfectly fresh LD II. I'm sorry if LD II is crippled by this knowledge, but he suxx in comparison to KM.

[Channing]

Ah the love of small sample sizes. Delaney is 48% from 2, 42% from 3. A Two, even just inside the arc, is a higher percentage shot. Instead he took a 3, with marshall in his face (GJ by Marshall there, to be fair), WITH PLENTY OF TIME TO TRY AND GET A BETTER SHOT.

This isn't to insult Marshall's Defense on the play, which was great. But well, it was obvious who was taking the shot and he just isn't smart about it. Delaney thinks that he can sink anything way too often, resulting in bad attempts. Why not try to pass the ball and get it back off a screen?

I disagree. First, I am sure Malcolm Delaney has practiced 3 point shots much more than shots just inside the arc. As such, he is more used to the slightly longer distance and probably shoots that shot at a higher clip.

Second, he had driven to the hoop numerous times without getting a foul called. Whether or not he was fouled is a different story, but in his mind if he took it to the rim and there was contact he was not getting the benefit of the doubt. Instead, he took a step back three . . . the same exact shot he had just nailed 2 or 3 posessions earlier. Given what VT was working with, I didn't think it was that bad of a shot.

[sagegrouse]

I disagree. First, I am sure Malcolm Delaney has practiced 3 point shots much more than shots just inside the arc. As such, he is more used to the slightly longer distance and probably shoots that shot at a higher clip.

Second, he had driven to the hoop numerous times without getting a foul called. Whether or not he was fouled is a different story, but in his mind if he took it to the rim and there was contact he was not getting the benefit of the doubt. Instead, he took a step back three . . . the same exact shot he had just nailed 2 or 3 posessions earlier. Given what VT was working with, I didn't think it was that bad of a shot.

I thought two things at the end determined the outcome:

1. The charging call on Allen (or Davila?) that waved off the dunk, when Zeller was standing directly under the basket. I know there is no line like in the NBA, but IIRC there was an adjustment to the rules to prevent that from being a foul.

2. Barnes waking up, er... getting hot, with eight points on 3-4 in the last three minutes.

Bilas's commentary on the game was exactly right: the Tar Heels should have gone inside on every play. VT had no answer inside and no depth outside and would have ended up with walk-ons on the court.

sagegrouse

[moonpie23]

i find it interesting that most folks here are saying how awful the hole are playing, yet....they are gaining momentum.....

[Channing]

1. The charging call on Allen (or Davila?) that waved off the dunk, when Zeller was standing directly under the basket. I know there is no line like in the NBA, but IIRC there was an adjustment to the rules to prevent that from being a foul.



sagegrouse

Agree with this 100%. I think everyone was caught off guard with just how strong Allen took it to the hoop. Not only was Zeller almost directly under the basket, but he was still moving to the spot when Allen dunked.

[superdave]

I thought two things at the end determined the outcome:

1. The charging call on Allen (or Davila?) that waved off the dunk, when Zeller was standing directly under the basket. I know there is no line like in the NBA, but IIRC there was an adjustment to the rules to prevent that from being a foul.

2. Barnes waking up, er... getting hot, with eight points on 3-4 in the last three minutes.

Bilas's commentary on the game was exactly right: the Tar Heels should have gone inside on every play. VT had no answer inside and no depth outside and would have ended up with walk-ons on the court.

sagegrouse

I agree with everything you said here. Allen got hosed, also Delaney got knocked around a lot by the Unc guards down the stretch but no calls.

Barnes has a really pretty shot. He was not at all assertive though. If he could add a few post moves, he has the size to punish SFs.

Zeller was a major advantage for Unc. He must have had 2-3 inches on everyone on the court, and he never seems to bring the ball down.

Can Duke please steal the lob plays that Unc uses? Pretty please? They had great spacing last night vs. the 2-3 zone then drove a guard into the gaps which opened up backside dashes to the rim. Love it. Perfect read to run for the Brothers Plum. Sign me up.

[UrinalCake]

Give credit to VT for hanging in there despite several injured players and a ton of foul trouble. It takes a lot to stay in that game on the road after the home team comes back. Everyone knew Delaney was going to take the last shot, and the three was the best look he could get. It was really close to going in too, rattled around a bit before coming out. If that drops then it would have likely been an amazing win.

Barnes did hit some threes but still has a ways to go before he lives up to his hype.

I'm waaaaay less optimistic about playing UNC after these last two games. Zeller and Henson are playing great and we don't really have an answer for them.

[Saratoga2]

VT blew out FSU in their last game, so they can't be that bad. UNC still beat them. We will have our hands full with both of them.

[ncexnyc]

i find it interesting that most folks here are saying how awful the hole are playing, yet....they are gaining momentum.....
You my friend are exactly right!

We can try to play down their two wins all we want, but in the end they are conference wins and that is all that matters. Winning breeds confidence and they've been on a nice roll.

[Vincetaylor]

Give credit to VT for hanging in there despite several injured players and a ton of foul trouble. It takes a lot to stay in that game on the road after the home team comes back. Everyone knew Delaney was going to take the last shot, and the three was the best look he could get. It was really close to going in too, rattled around a bit before coming out. If that drops then it would have likely been an amazing win.

Barnes did hit some threes but still has a ways to go before he lives up to his hype.

I'm waaaaay less optimistic about playing UNC after these last two games. Zeller and Henson are playing great and we don't really have an answer for them.

I think there is good reason to be worried about UNC. I think we will do fine in Cameron, but unless we have Kyrie for the game in Chapel Hill, we could have a tough time. We won't be able to do anything inside, so we will be living and dying by the 3 again.

[Duvall]

We won't be able to do anything inside, so we will be living and dying by the 3 again.

Never a bad strategy for the Dean Dome. Everyone shoots well there, especially Duke.

[94duke]

Never a bad strategy for the Dean Dome. Everyone shoots well there, especially Duke.

I wouldn't necessarily say "especially Duke."
From goduke.com database:


@UNC

Year FG 3FG
2007 .422 .304
2008 .455 .448
2009 .440 .381
2010 .319 .500

[sandinmyshoes]

I can't believe I stayed up to watch that entire game. After the way it started, I thought VaTech would at least hold on for a win.

Some have mentioned us not being able to handle Zeller and Henson, but we have the depth to play them physically. They're not particularly strong with the ball, or establishing position under physical conditions in the paint.

As to Marshall. I am on record as having defended him on this board. He has an excellent feel for the game. But, last night was just one game, and VT's zone was exactly the sort of defense the kid can cut to bits. Better to put ball pressure on him.

Speaking of zone. Funny how Greenburg gets forced by injuries into playing a defense he should probably have been playing all along. I don't mean to be mean. It happens a lot in coaching. Coaches are so stubborn.

[kong123]

This is a question that was asked to Zeller after the game. It affirms my thoughts on why UNC seems to be such slow starters on the offensive end.

The team struggled so much against the zone at the start of the game - do you think you were prepared for that defense?
"Because Virginia Tech played zone for all 40 minutes against Florida State, we had a very good idea they'd play zone, especially with all their injuries. We'd been working on it all week, but their zone was a lot more aggressive than the one we were practicing against and I think it shocked a lot of guys."

I think UNC lacks defensive intensity, not only in games, but especially in practice. If there is one area where they could improve that would make a huge difference down the line, would be better and more physical practice for the bigs. However, since we are so thin, insert jokes here, at the 4 and 5, our bigs fail to develop good ball skills down low. They are weak with the ball and not very good in traffic. I would bring in a few football players to muscle the guys around in practice. If they could avoid getting hurt, then it will better prepare the kids to play Div I competition. As it stands now, UNC's starting five has to acclimate to the pressure, speed, and intensity.

[DukieInBrasil]

This is a question that was asked to Zeller after the game. It affirms my thoughts on why UNC seems to be such slow starters on the offensive end.

The team struggled so much against the zone at the start of the game - do you think you were prepared for that defense?
"Because Virginia Tech played zone for all 40 minutes against Florida State, we had a very good idea they'd play zone, especially with all their injuries. We'd been working on it all week, but their zone was a lot more aggressive than the one we were practicing against and I think it shocked a lot of guys."

I think UNC lacks defensive intensity, not only in games, but especially in practice. If there is one area where they could improve that would make a huge difference down the line, would be better and more physical practice for the bigs. However, since we are so thin, insert jokes here, at the 4 and 5, our bigs fail to develop good ball skills down low. They are weak with the ball and not very good in traffic. I would bring in a few football players to muscle the guys around in practice. If they could avoid getting hurt, then it will better prepare the kids to play Div I competition. As it stands now, UNC's starting five has to acclimate to the pressure, speed, and intensity.

Seems to me they're pretty soft down low too, but it is kinda shocking to hear someone on the inside admit that they don't practice hard. I agree that they could use some toughening up, but they catch and finish in the lane much better than do Mason and Miles, and possibly Ryan too. At least when Marshall was in, he dished several times in the lane for assists.

[moonpie23]

guess the gloom and doom crew are kinda happy that we're looking at UNC leading the conference at 2-0