Nolan Smith

[Chris Randolph]

Obviously Nolan is having a very good year and has been asked to carry the load more since Kyrie's injury. But sometimes I think Nolan gets too locked in to scoring instead of finding open teammates. Seems to me that many times last night he missed Kyle /Seth/Dre in transition. A couple times Kyle, who was hot in the 2nd half, was left open and Nolan forced it. I know he is better at the 2 guard and isn't a true point guard but any player has to be able to see open teammates and get them the ball instead of forcing something. I'm not claiming he is a "black hole" but at times he gets that way.

Thoughts? And maybe he has to or is being asked to be ultra aggressive because other guys aren't going to score the ball, but if Dre and Seth are as good of shooters as the coaches/we say, then they need to get the ball when open.

[superdave]

Obviously Nolan is having a very good year and has been asked to carry the load more since Kyrie's injury. But sometimes I think Nolan gets too locked in to scoring instead of finding open teammates. Seems to me that many times last night he missed Kyle /Seth/Dre in transition. A couple times Kyle, who was hot in the 2nd half, was left open and Nolan forced it. I know he is better at the 2 guard and isn't a true point guard but any player has to be able to see open teammates and get them the ball instead of forcing something. I'm not claiming he is a "black hole" but at times he gets that way.

Thoughts? And maybe he has to or is being asked to be ultra aggressive because other guys aren't going to score the ball, but if Dre and Seth are as good of shooters as the coaches/we say, then they need to get the ball when open.


ASSISTS Cl GP No. Avg/G (http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2010-2011/confldrs.html)
1. Nolan Smith-DU SR 16 91 5.7
2. Reggie Jackson-BC JR 17 80 4.7
3. Kendall Marshall-NC FR 15 62 4.1
4. C.J. Harris-WF SO 17 68 4.0
-4. Malcolm Delaney-VT SR 14 56 4.0
6. Jontel Evans-VA SO 16 63 3.9
-6. Adrian Bowie-MD SR 16 63 3.9
8. Larry Drew II-NC JR 15 58 3.9
9. Malcolm Grant-UM JR 16 60 3.8
10. Derwin Kitchen-FS SR 17 62 3.6

[cptnflash]

Obviously Nolan is having a very good year and has been asked to carry the load more since Kyrie's injury. But sometimes I think Nolan gets too locked in to scoring instead of finding open teammates. Seems to me that many times last night he missed Kyle /Seth/Dre in transition. A couple times Kyle, who was hot in the 2nd half, was left open and Nolan forced it. I know he is better at the 2 guard and isn't a true point guard but any player has to be able to see open teammates and get them the ball instead of forcing something. I'm not claiming he is a "black hole" but at times he gets that way.

Thoughts? And maybe he has to or is being asked to be ultra aggressive because other guys aren't going to score the ball, but if Dre and Seth are as good of shooters as the coaches/we say, then they need to get the ball when open.

I agree, though it's tough to be too hard on the guy given that he's playing out of position. He's probably not as bad as he looked the last two games, but he's not as good as he looked against the inferior competition we played right after Kyrie's injury either. I would expect he'll make adjustments and get a little bit better as time goes on, but we should not expect him to consistently distribute the ball to open teammates the way Kyrie did.

[taiw93]

ASSISTS Cl GP No. Avg/G (http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2010-2011/confldrs.html)
1. Nolan Smith-DU SR 16 91 5.7
2. Reggie Jackson-BC JR 17 80 4.7
3. Kendall Marshall-NC FR 15 62 4.1
4. C.J. Harris-WF SO 17 68 4.0
-4. Malcolm Delaney-VT SR 14 56 4.0
6. Jontel Evans-VA SO 16 63 3.9
-6. Adrian Bowie-MD SR 16 63 3.9
8. Larry Drew II-NC JR 15 58 3.9
9. Malcolm Grant-UM JR 16 60 3.8
10. Derwin Kitchen-FS SR 17 62 3.6

It is indisputable that Nolan puts up excellent assist numbers. However, he does falter slightly in "the eye test." While I think Nolan is among the top 3-5 guards in the country, he lacks (IMO) the ability to make his teammates better, a trait which all excellent TRUE point guards have. That being said, one could say the exact same thing (literally word-for-word) about Jon Scheyer, whose point guard play won us a championship last year.

I have no doubt that we can win a championship again without a true, distributing point guard this year. However, our chances are a heck of a lot slimmer with Nolan at the point than they were with Kyrie (and Nolan playing off the ball).

[Chris Randolph]

Yes Duke won the national championship without a true point guard. A few differences, IMO, are that the NC team had 3 scorers (Jon, Nolan, Kyle) as opposed to this season in 2 (Kyle, Nolan). Although Jon was not a true PG, I thought he made the guys around him better and was so smart at finding the open guy. Another obvious difference was the production from the post, LT and Zoubs were much better than Plumlee x's 2 and Kelly.

Now Jon had half a season and a whole off season to learn how to become a better PG. Nolan has had a month, haha. So giving Nolan the benefit of the doubt is necessary. If the bigs can big up their game, even just a bit, I think that will help Nolan (and Kyle) a ton

[superdave]

Another obvious difference was the production from the post, LT and Zoubs were much better than Plumlee x's 2 and Kelly.


Really? What do you base this on?

The three this year have combined for 18.8 and 16 in 59 minutes.

Last year, LT and BZ combined for 10.4 and 12.6 in 44 minutes.

[Chris Randolph]

Zoubs and LT played with toughness and grit. They were better defenders, were more physical and set better screens on offense to free the shooters. Not to mention the many offensive rebounds and kick outs for wide open 3's. Points and rebounds are not the only thing that matter.

I'm not giving up on the Plumlees. It took Zoubs awhile to get going last year. Everyone is adjusting to a different style of play without Kyrie.

[ice-9]

They were WAY better defenders. Defense isn't just about length and athleticism, it's also about positioning, awareness and anticipation. While the Plumlees are stronger in the former, Zoubek and Lance have the upper-hand in the latter.

The good news is that positioning, awareness and anticipation are all things that can be improved over time.

[sagegrouse]

Zoubs and LT played with toughness and grit. They were better defenders, were more physical and set better screens on offense to free the shooters. Not to mention the many offensive rebounds and kick outs for wide open 3's. Points and rebounds are not the only thing that matter.

I'm not giving up on the Plumlees. It took Zoubs awhile to get going last year. Everyone is adjusting to a different style of play without Kyrie.

Zoubs and LT had played three years before they showed their true value; for Zoubs it was actually 3.5 years. Miles has played two; Mason and Kelly have played one each. And no, you can't say that 2+1+1 is not that different from 3+3. It is 1.33 vs. 3.00, in terms of average years of experience.

I think we can expect some real improvement in our big guys over the next few games, as the team begins to focus more on inside play. It is clear from the first three conference games that Duke can't win comfortably any more off of perimeter shots and fast break points. The latter have become scarce, and the former have become less certain.

In a slog-it-out game, inside players have to play a role. Now I guess we'll see what it is.

sagegrouse

[Kedsy]

A few differences, IMO, are that the NC team had 3 scorers (Jon, Nolan, Kyle) as opposed to this season in 2 (Kyle, Nolan).

Why do people say this? Without Kyrie, and not including any of the big men, we have four scorers on this year's team. Since Kyrie's been out, Andre has been averaging almost 13 ppg and Seth almost 9 ppg. Overall, Andre is 20th in the ACC in points per 40 minutes (17.9) and Seth is 41st (14.5), which is pretty darn good for a 3rd and 4th option.

Besides, based on pretty much every statistical measure, we don't have a problem on offense, with or without Kyrie.


Another obvious difference was the production from the post, LT and Zoubs were much better than Plumlee x's 2 and Kelly.


Zoubs and LT played with toughness and grit. They were better defenders, were more physical and set better screens on offense to free the shooters. Not to mention the many offensive rebounds and kick outs for wide open 3's. Points and rebounds are not the only thing that matter.

I agree points and rebounds are not the only thing that matter. But your original statement (quoted above) was that Lance's and Z's "production" was much better than our current three bigs, and when someone says "production" they're generally referring to points and rebounds. Well, sometimes they also mean assists, blocks, and steals, but the current bigs are better than Lance and Z at all those things, too.

It may sound semantic, but I'd say last year's bigs may have made more contributions than this year's bigs so far, but they didn't have more production.

[SupaDave]

They were WAY better defenders. Defense isn't just about length and athleticism, it's also about positioning, awareness and anticipation. While the Plumlees are stronger in the former, Zoubek and Lance have the upper-hand in the latter.

The good news is that positioning, awareness and anticipation are all things that can be improved over time.

Especially since we used to have these exact same conversations about Zoubs and Lance.

Right now it seems we are running a bit of a hybrid offense that needs some tweeking without Kyrie. While we might not have a "third" scorer, we've certainly got a lot MORE scorers than last year so things will work themselves out.

[superdave]

Zoubs and LT played with toughness and grit. They were better defenders, were more physical and set better screens on offense to free the shooters. Not to mention the many offensive rebounds and kick outs for wide open 3's. Points and rebounds are not the only thing that matter.

I'm not giving up on the Plumlees. It took Zoubs awhile to get going last year. Everyone is adjusting to a different style of play without Kyrie.

Are you referring to the LT (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?19074-The-Case-for-Lance&highlight=Thomas+Zoubek) and the BZ everyone wanted to bench (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?18013-Z%B4s-case&highlight=Georgia+Tech) until 2/13/2010 or are you referring to the guys who started playing the best ball (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?20696-Appreciation-for-Zoubek&highlight=Zoubek) of their careers (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?20810-Myths-and-predictions-proven-wrong&highlight=Lance) from 2/13-4/6/2010?

Big difference and it has implications for how we both complain about the guys this year and view player development.

[Chris Randolph]

Many good points have been made by you guys, good to hear the other side of things. I think I have a bit too high expectations for the Plumlees. And true Zoubs/LT had 3+ years experience before they really played well.

Production was the wrong word for what I was trying to say, I see where that word is associated with stats. I was obviously referring to more of the stuff that doesn't show in the box score.

While Dre and Seth may be considered scorers, I think Kyle and Nolan are going to take the bulk of the shots and teams know that. I don't think teams are overly concerned with anybody else (I do think Dre and Seth are capable of making teams pay who have this theory, but time will tell). Last years team had 3 proven scorers and when it comes to teams gameplanning, shutting down or containing 3 is just about impossible. No team has 3 really good/lock down defenders, but some do have 2. I hope Dre and Seth develop more confidence and consistency as the season progresses, but then again they are still young pups who are limited to jump shooting so I am cautious.

[tele]

Production was the wrong word for what I was trying to say, I see where that word is associated with stats. I was obviously referring to more of the stuff that doesn't show in the box score.

While Dre and Seth may be considered scorers, I think Kyle and Nolan are going to take the bulk of the shots and teams know that. I don't think teams are overly concerned with anybody else (I do think Dre and Seth are capable of making teams pay who have this theory, but time will tell). Last years team had 3 proven scorers and when it comes to teams gameplanning, shutting down or containing 3 is just about impossible. No team has 3 really good/lock down defenders, but some do have 2. I hope Dre and Seth develop more confidence and consistency as the season progresses, but then again they are still young pups who are limited to jump shooting so I am cautious.

I think your choice of words is fine, offensive production generally does refer to points. Zoubek and Thomas grew into solid role players last year, but never really provided what you might rightly call offensive post production. Z's signature post move was a pass out to a three point shooter, and Thomas's best offensive move was a facing the basket shot from the elbow. Not conventional post production by any means. So far this season, one of the most common offense plays from the post players has been a shot from the three point line, also not conventional use of post players.

Your 3 scorer vs two is also a good one, it is alot easier to play "junk" defenses against a team with two scorers than 3, triangle and two, what Maryland did in the last game, etc. If you have three scorers to balance the floor, or you have inside outside scoring balance you can defeat these types of defenses pretty easily. But you still have to knock down shots, either from the third scorer or from the post.