A little love for Duke WBB

[4decadedukie]

In the last three days, Duke has played two VERY tough opponents, winning terrific, arduous games against Kentucky and Maryland. Last night, Duke's comeback victory (against the always-challenging Terps) showed real grit and tenacity. Our team is undefeated and, while some of their wins have not been elegant, they are all significant. WELL DONE.

[wandalee]

I was really dreading last night's game since we have been playing so ugly. But what a great victory. Our overall play was greatly improved. And the crowds for the last 2 games have been wonderful - lots of cheering and support.

[CameronBornAndBred]

One of the things I love about this team is that they seem to be a COMPLETE team. We have our floor leaders, such as Jasmine and Karima, but we are getting solid contiributions from just about everyone. Last night, Jasmine was on the bench for a significant stretch, while we were down, and still managed to mount the comeback. The freshmen have been great, I haven't been anything but impressed by each of them, and am licking my lips at the thought of those 5 with some more experience under their belts. It was really fun earlier this year to see all 5 playing at the same time, can't remember which game it was but that had to be a first. As we've seen, not all the wins have been pretty, but there is no quit in this team. They rely on each other so well, and don't collapse under pressure. Now all they gotta do is figure out how to shoot a layup with a defender on them. :rolleyes:

[du_bb1]

As above--not always pretty BB, BUT cannot beat UNDEFEATED !
including 3 top 15 teams--not bad !

[Indoor66]

I enjoyed seeing the guys in attendance and obviously enjoying themselves. Quite an accomplishment - #3 women and #1 men. Not since '99 for Duke when we were #1 - #1 (and forget the outcomes), IRRC.

[dukejim1]

This team has it. Haley Peters = Nate James

[sagegrouse]

This team has it. Haley Peters = Nate James

Haley was amazing. In fact, she played so well, I expect her brother Casey to get more playing time.

sagegrouse

[Bluedog]

I enjoyed seeing the guys in attendance and obviously enjoying themselves. Quite an accomplishment - #3 women and #1 men. Not since '99 for Duke when we were #1 - #1 (and forget the outcomes), IRRC.

I believe both teams were #1 in 2006. At least, the men definitely were and the women got a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament. I'm not 100% sure the women were ranked #1, but clearly they were elite/top 4ish by getting a 1 seed. That final against Maryland still breaks my heart though....should have won it.

Still, obviously, quite an accomplishment for our university this year.

[Lid]

Great thread, and I couldn't agree more. This team can be frustrating to watch at times (who knew 2-foot shots could consistently be SO exciting?), but it feels like any of the women could come through with a big defensive stop or shot at almost any moment. The energy and determination are palpable. I really like this team.

I've been impressed with crowd size this year, too - we can't show up just before tip and get prime bleacher seats as easily anymore! I guess the good thing about the low student support for WBB is that the break games don't really have worse attendance than games during the semester. It's nice to see Durhamites out supporting the women and the Crusties lustily cheering and standing for the last couple of minutes of last night's game!

And Haley Peters. My goodness. She is almost always in the right place.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Haley was amazing. In fact, she played so well, I expect her brother Casey to get more playing time.

sagegrouse
They mentioned an amazing stat about Haley last night that I didn't know. She aced her ACT. (Also was valedictorian of her class.)

[killerleft]

Great thread, and I couldn't agree more. This team can be frustrating to watch at times (who knew 2-foot shots could consistently be SO exciting?), but it feels like any of the women could come through with a big defensive stop or shot at almost any moment. The energy and determination are palpable. I really like this team.

I've been impressed with crowd size this year, too - we can't show up just before tip and get prime bleacher seats as easily anymore! I guess the good thing about the low student support for WBB is that the break games don't really have worse attendance than games during the semester. It's nice to see Durhamites out supporting the women and the Crusties lustily cheering and standing for the last couple of minutes of last night's game!

And Haley Peters. My goodness. She is almost always in the right place.

I'd like to see some love for Joanne P. McCallie. There are a lot of people who ragged on her for no other reason than she wasn't Coach, uh. whatever her name was. Others just because they wanted an ex-Dukie to run the program.

Duke got this hire right. Several people here and elsewhere ought to be eating crow by now. If we can get the offense to rolling, the ladies will be even harder to beat! These gals are tough.

[Bluedog]

They mentioned an amazing stat about Haley last night that I didn't know. She aced her ACT. (Also was valedictorian of her class.)

Wow, that is impressive. Her brother must take after her. Casey got a perfect score on the SAT math (and was a national merit semifinalist). But Haley has him beat by getting a perfect cumulative score. ;) 36 on the ACT and being valedictorian, while training hard to be a great athlete is really tough to do. I don't understand how these kids do it. It takes immense time management skills. Boggles my mind...

[airowe]

Very impressive group of wins for DWB. I know Jazmine really wanted to be the team to take down UCONn.

The womens' and mens' teams are very close and it's great to see them out supporting each other.

[burnspbesq]

"Several people here and elsewhere ought to be eating crow by now."

Make mine crow and Swiss on whole wheat, with lettuce, tomato, and Dijon mustard. Side of macaroni salad and a Diet Coke. Twas a long and frustrating transition, but we are starting to look like we can consistently be top five or six.

[devildeac]

"Several people here and elsewhere ought to be eating crow by now."

Make mine crow and Swiss on whole wheat, with lettuce, tomato, and Dijon mustard. Side of macaroni salad and a Diet Coke. Twas a long and frustrating transition, but we are starting to look like we can consistently be top five or six.

Could we substitute "bleupoupon" in place of the dijon;)?

[sagegrouse]

"Several people here and elsewhere ought to be eating crow by now."

Make mine crow and Swiss on whole wheat, with lettuce, tomato, and Dijon mustard. Side of macaroni salad and a Diet Coke. Twas a long and frustrating transition, but we are starting to look like we can consistently be top five or six.

The final three minutes erased a lot of painful memories. Although a win is a win is a win, basketball can be a beautiful game to watch, and the end last night was boith beautiful and memorable. Kudos to our A-A Jasmine and congratulations to our freshman stars, who arrived just in the nick of time.

sagegrouse

[Indoor66]

I'd like to see some love for Joanne P. McCallie. There are a lot of people who ragged on her for no other reason than she wasn't Coach, uh. whatever her name was. Others just because they wanted an ex-Dukie to run the program.

Duke got this hire right. Several people here and elsewhere ought to be eating crow by now. If we can get the offense to rolling, the ladies will be even harder to beat! These gals are tough.

And look at the success (or lack thereof) of her predecessor. Maybe coaching at Duke has some effect on recruiting and success.

[Class of '94]

"Several people here and elsewhere ought to be eating crow by now."

Make mine crow and Swiss on whole wheat, with lettuce, tomato, and Dijon mustard. Side of macaroni salad and a Diet Coke. Twas a long and frustrating transition, but we are starting to look like we can consistently be top five or six.

I'd love to get yours or anyone else's perspective on why there could've been a perception that the transition to Coach P was frusting? No offense to Coach G, but she never won a NC with Duke; and she should've (the painful loss to MD in OT in the championship game comes to mind); and we've had our share of disappointing post seasons under G in the latter stages of her coaching career at Duke. When you transition to a new coach, there's always going to be a transition period and some disappointing loses; but to Coach P's credit, she's kept the women's program very competitive each year that she's coached them IMO. Each year, the team and record has improved; and we've been at or near the top of the ACC as well as nationally ranked in the top 10-15 her entire tenure.

So again, why would anyone consider the Coach P transition long and frustrating? And please note that I'm not trying to attack anyone.

[stillcrazie]

In the last three days, Duke has played two VERY tough opponents, winning terrific, arduous games against Kentucky and Maryland. Last night, Duke's comeback victory (against the always-challenging Terps) showed real grit and tenacity. Our team is undefeated and, while some of their wins have not been elegant, they are all significant. WELL DONE.

Let's not forget the win vs. Xavier a couple of weeks ago (their coach had to be restrained at the end after Jasmine blocked the final shot. All of the last three games were decided in the final minutes and Jaz was the catalyst all three times. Krystal also played much better last night than she did vs. KY. I was worried when we could not break through the zone, but once again, a miraculous finish. And to top it off, a Carolina loss.

By the way, I am on a personal crusade to get students to the games. Two new converts so far this month.

[killerleft]

And look at the success (or lack thereof) of her predecessor. Maybe coaching at Duke has some effect on recruiting and success.

I agree!

I just wanted to add that the enthusiasm of the freshmen last night was palpable even watching on TV! Maybe the thing the ladies need to hold on to most from this game is that it's supposed to be fun. Sometimes ballplayers forget that.

[stillcrazie]

I'd love to get yours or anyone else's perspective on why there could've been a perception that the transition to Coach P was frusting? No offense to Coach G, but she never won a NC with Duke; and she should've (the painful loss to MD in OT in the championship game comes to mind); and we've had our share of disappointing post seasons under G in the latter stages of her coaching career at Duke. When you transition to a new coach, there's always going to be a transition period and some disappointing loses; but to Coach P's credit, she's kept the women's program very competitive each year that she's coached them IMO. Each year, the team and record has improved; and we've been at or near the top of the ACC as well as nationally ranked in the top 10-15 her entire tenure.

So again, why would anyone consider the Coach P transition long and frustrating? And please note that I'm not trying to attack anyone.

Well, her first year was not great, as I recall. And not all of Gail's players bought into Coach P's philosophy. I also observed that there were a lot of Coach G loyalists who had their minds made up before Coach P even got here. Coach G built the program and some people could not get over her leaving. Some thought Duke could have done more to keep her ($$$).

[Class of '94]

Well, her first year was not great, as I recall. And not all of Gail's players bought into Coach P's philosophy. I also observed that there were a lot of Coach G loyalists who had their minds made up before Coach P even got here. Coach G built the program and some people could not get over her leaving. Some thought Duke could have done more to keep her ($$$).

Don't want to side-track this thread.....But even in her first year, Coach P won a lot of games (even if we didn't win the ACC or have a deep playoff run). I get the Coach G loyalists passing judgement but that would explain tension and possible team chemistry. When I think of a frustrating transition, I think of number of losses and playing below ability. Maybe one could argue that early on, Coach P's teams didn't play up to their ability (I don't believe that however); but Coach P has done a done a very nice job from day 1, especially considering the Coach G supporters that she had to win over and still may be winning over. The smoothness and flow of the offense still needs to get better; but I love the physical and mental toughness of this team; and I love how we "out-toughed" MD in the end; and I look forward to that our team playing UConn.

[stillcrazie]

Don't want to side-track this thread.....But even in her first year, Coach P won a lot of games (even if we didn't win the ACC or have a deep playoff run). I get the Coach G loyalists passing judgement but that would explain tension and possible team chemistry. When I think of a frustrating transition, I think of number of losses and playing below ability. Maybe one could argue that early on, Coach P's teams didn't play up to their ability (I don't believe that however); but Coach P has done a done a very nice job from day 1, especially considering the Coach G supporters that she had to win over and still may be winning over. The smoothness and flow of the offense still needs to get better; but I love the physical and mental toughness of this team; and I love how we "out-toughed" MD in the end; and I look forward to that our team playing UConn.

I am sure there are people out there more in-the-know than I who could fill in more details. But I agree with you - I love this team.

[buddy]

Undefeated is undefeated. This team plays terrific defense (most of the time), but the offense is WAY behind the defense. Last night there were several instances where all five players were on one side of the court on offense. It makes playing defense much easier when the offense plays herdball. Krystal somehow got in the corner three times, and three times she threw the ball away. I love Krystal, she works really hard, but there is NOTHING she can do on offense from the corner. Finally, our bigs really need to learn how to finish. On Tuesday they were 1-14 collectively from the field. Duke will not win many deep tournament games with the posts shooting 7%. This team plays like they have never practiced a half court offense. They seem lost when the offense is anything more than steal the ball and drive. (They will drive even when they don't have numbers, which is very frustrating.) The clear out for Jasmine play in the last two minutes does seem to work.

On the other hand, Haley Peters is a beast. When asked to do word association with her players, the word P gave to Haley was "mean." It was a compliment. We are going to love her by the time she graduates. Tricia Liston played a solid game with really key baskets last night. Chelsea Grey is a Karima Christmas clone--she runs funny but is tough (and can shoot the three ball). Jasmine seems to play playground ball for the first 35 minutes, but she delivers in crunch time.

They thrive on defense, yet last night got beaten several times when the press is broken. That usually ends up with the opposition getting a 2-on-1 (either Krystal or Allison) which is generally an automatic basket. But they adjusted late in the game last night and cut off the easy buckets late. They are frustrating to watch, but seem to have more leadership than last year in end of game situations.

Come on out and watch. These girls have game!

[burnspbesq]

I'd love to get yours or anyone else's perspective on why there could've been a perception that the transition to Coach P was frusting?

1. She was very few fans' first choice to replace G.
2. There was a perception that Michigan State played ugly and boring basketball, and a concern that Duke would become Michigan State.
3. The decline and fall of Abby Waner.
4. A general failure to win over the classes of 2008 and 2009 to her system.
5. Ugly and non-winning basketball. The loss to Baylor in the Elite Eight last year was the paradigm case.
6. Two relatively underwhelming recruiting classes out of the gate. Selby, Scheer, and Vernerey are nice players, but none of them will ever be first or second team all-ACC.

There was real and justified concern about the future of the program until this year's freshmen signed on.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Selby, Scheer, and Vernerey are nice players, but none of them will ever be first or second team all-ACC.

I'll take that bet. AV and Scheer are both solid and important. (Nothing against Shay here) Allison struggles with her shot, and that can improve. Kathleen is a player that won't back down from anybody and has the ability to score. They could both be all-ACC in two years. Hell, they could do it next year.

[Kedsy]

Ugly and non-winning basketball. The loss to Baylor in the Elite Eight last year was the paradigm case.

Sorry, but this bothers me. We made the Elite Eight and lost by just 3 points to a really good team playing it's best basketball of the year, and this is an argument that P isn't doing a good job? Give me a break.

[Lid]

1. She was very few fans' first choice to replace G.
2. There was a perception that Michigan State played ugly and boring basketball, and a concern that Duke would become Michigan State.
3. The decline and fall of Abby Waner.

Of your points, I think these three, along with the widely-circulated quotes indicating she didn't like recruiting, were what made people wary at the start. Also, the way that Emily Waner left the team was unsettling.

In any case, I agree that Coach P is doing a very good job. I'm not crazy about the offensive style (or lack thereof), but I AM crazy about the women's team, and am thrilled with the recruiting trends and effort by the players. I'm learning to love the results of ugly ball.

[burnspbesq]

I'll take that bet. AV and Scheer are both solid and important. (Nothing against Shay here) Allison struggles with her shot, and that can improve. Kathleen is a player that won't back down from anybody and has the ability to score. They could both be all-ACC in two years. Hell, they could do it next year.

You're on. I think Williams and Henson are going to start next year.

[jtelander]

It isn't just about the wins...style of play matters IMO. Ugly games are not as much fun to watch.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It isn't just about the wins...style of play matters IMO. Ugly games are not as much fun to watch.
I'll watch an ugly ACC and NCAA championship any day of the week. We haven't gotten the NCAA, but the rest of the conference would like what we have in Cameron's lobby.

[Verga3]

Wow, that is impressive. Her brother must take after her. Casey got a perfect score on the SAT math (and was a national merit semifinalist). But Haley has him beat by getting a perfect cumulative score. ;) 36 on the ACT and being valedictorian, while training hard to be a great athlete is really tough to do. I don't understand how these kids do it. It takes immense time management skills. Boggles my mind...

The Peter's are both remarkable, focused people and are the posterkids for Duke's national leadership in academics, athletics.....and character. We are so fortunate they are here!! Thanks, great parents and Coaches P & K!

[CameronBornAndBred]

You're on. I think Williams and Henson are going to start next year.
This is nice timing...here's an article from goduke.com about both Shay Selby and Kathleen Scheer, and their work ethic.
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=205073288&DB_OEM_ID=4200



“I’ve never quit anything in my life, so I didn’t think too much about it (leaving),” said Scheer, who caught the coaches’ attention in preseason practice by flying all over the floor to grab loose balls and rebounds while regaining her touch on the high arching three-pointers that swished in from both wings and baselines.

[Richard Berg]

I'd love to get yours or anyone else's perspective on why there could've been a perception that the transition to Coach P was frusting?
Speaking for me only:

7. Laying an enormous egg in the first half (fewest points in finals history), somehow holding the lead anyway, then getting stuck at 42 for the entirety of crunch time
6. Jackie Stiles
5. Getting manhandled in the 02-03 FFs, as if we didn't belong there
4. Ivory Latta always having our number, even in the years we had no trouble dispatching UConn and Tennessee
3. Kristi Toliver
2. Lindsay Harding's free throws
1. Coach G departure & aftermath (E. Waner, etc)

As the fallout from 2007 sank in, I began thinking "this is what it must feel like to be a Buffalo Bills fan." I don't know if I could've handled another round. So I stopped watching. Then I moved away from the Triangle, making games harder to find even if I'd wanted to. DBR also stopped carrying Rob's columns, so I wasn't kept in the loop via my usual online sources.

So you see, it wasn't just the transition itself; it was the capstone to a lifetime (in Duke fandom terms) of hatred and frustration. I certainly had nothing against Coach P.

Hearing that we "toughed out" a comeback win against the Terps makes me very very happy. Maybe it's time to tune back in.

[stillcrazie]

Speaking for me only:

7. Laying an enormous egg in the first half (fewest points in finals history), somehow holding the lead anyway, then getting stuck at 42 for the entirety of crunch time
6. Jackie Stiles
5. Getting manhandled in the 02-03 FFs, as if we didn't belong there
4. Ivory Latta always having our number, even in the years we had no trouble dispatching UConn and Tennessee
3. Kristi Toliver
2. Lindsay Harding's free throws
1. Coach G departure & aftermath (E. Waner, etc)

As the fallout from 2007 sank in, I began thinking "this is what it must feel like to be a Buffalo Bills fan." I don't know if I could've handled another round. So I stopped watching. Then I moved away from the Triangle, making games harder to find even if I'd wanted to. DBR also stopped carrying Rob's columns, so I wasn't kept in the loop via my usual online sources.

So you see, it wasn't just the transition itself; it was the capstone to a lifetime (in Duke fandom terms) of hatred and frustration. I certainly had nothing against Coach P.

Hearing that we "toughed out" a comeback win against the Terps makes me very very happy. Maybe it's time to tune back in.

It sounds like you tuned out before Coach P arrived, which was what the original question was about, the transition, not the problems beforehand. Latta and Tolliver were tough players and as a fan of women's basketball, I appreciate their skill and contributions, even though they burned us many a time. I personally saw many games, however, where we beat UNC while Latta was on the team. If you don't like good competition and have a hard time with losses, it will always be hard to be a fan.

The loss to Maryland in the finals was devastating, but the team has moved on. It's definitely time to come back, as long as you can handle the reality that we aren't going to win every game and sometimes it's going to be ugly. If the team itself can bounce back from disappointment and loss, the fans should be able to do it, too. This team deserves our support!

[DukeBlueNikeShox]

Another thing that bothered people was the character issues and baggage that P brought to the table. Around the time she was hired, her husband, a professor at University of Non Compliance, was in the news for biting an airport security official.
Additionally, people didn't like some of her recruiting tactics (the Claire Watkins ordeal)

The NCAA tourney flame-outs were legit concerns, mainly because how the games were lost. Her first season, Duke was a #1 seed and had to travel to play Michigan State on Michigan State's homecourt. The game was tied with 3:45 left in the game, and MSU went on a 16-2 run to close the game. 5 field goals in the paint and 6 free throws. Last year, Duke had Baylor beat until the closing minutes. After Krystal Thomas fouled out, Brittney Griner took over in the paint and sealed a trip to the Final Four for the Bears. These losses were alarming because P had billed herself as a coach who "lives for March" and prides herself on defense. Yet on the big stage, it was her defense that broke down and the downfall for the Blue Devils.

I give the team credit because in the tough games this season (Texas A&M, Xavier, Kentucky, Maryland), it was the defense that took over and sealed wins in each of these games.

Throw in that she seemingly took everything G related down in the offices, took the names off the back of the uniforms (which she has brought back this year), allowing Al Brown to wear those 1988 Bill Cosby sweaters instead of nice suits, and even had Al Brown on staff, who, to put it nicely, is not in a lot of coaches' T-Mobile Fav 5, was enough to put people on edge...

[Kedsy]

Her first season, Duke was a #1 seed and had to travel to play Michigan State on Michigan State's homecourt.

We were a #1 seed and the Committee forced us to play a road game on the #9 seed's home court (at our coach's former school), and your concern had to do with Coach P?

[DukeBlueNikeShox]

We were a #1 seed and the Committee forced us to play a road game on the #9 seed's home court (at our coach's former school), and your concern had to do with Coach P?

What difference does it make where you play the game? Stanford was #5 on the S-Curve, but they had to play San Diego State on their homecourt (and SDSU was undefeated at home). Stanford rolled to an easy victory.

Again, the game was tied with 3:45 left. The Committee wasn't responsible for allowing MSU to go on a 16-2 run to close the game. The Committee wasn't responsible for allowing MSU to get 5 field goals in the paint and putting MSU on the line to make 6 free throws...

[msdukie]

We were a #1 seed and the Committee forced us to play a road game on the #9 seed's home court (at our coach's former school), and your concern had to do with Coach P?

That wasn't her first season. That was her second season.

Her husband was not a professor at our mortal enemy. He went there. A far worse sin in my book.

The biggest issues regarding the transition were that Coach G built the program from virtually nothing, made Duke at worst a top-5 program consistently, her teams were fun to watch, you felt that while she was cursed in the postseason, the day would come someday (a la Coach K) where she would get a ring. Also, as time went on, the students supported the team (more on that below).

Joe Alleva, who I think should be considered without debate the worst athletic director in Duke history, made some unwise statements in the public about Coach G coming back when she was thinking about Texas and the widespread belief was that he really did not care about keeping her and did not make the effort he should have. I've also been told that there was some friction between G and Alleva, which had at least some impact on her decision, even if it was not the deciding factor.

There were a lot of questions about Coach P's credentials (the aforementioned recruiting and "tractor" offense) and whether Duke conducted a very good search for a replacement. The recruiting has been great, obviously, over the past year plus, possibly at a level higher than Coach G. The recruiting was not up to par before that, I think bringing in Tricia Stafford-Odom has done a world of good for recruiting.

The tractor offense concerns have come true and quite frankly watching this team is quite painful at times. I record the men's and women's games and like to go back and watch good games. I have no desire to go back and rewatch any women's game of the past 3+ years due to the offense. I can count the number of screens set in the Coach P era on two hands (yes, I understand that the offense is run though the post first and is a different style of offense, than a motion offense, but still) and an examination of the assist/turnover ratio in each boxscore since 2007 is astounding, but consistent.

There were a number of concerns in 2008 and 2009 about how the returning players felt and were treated. The departure of Emily Waner was the most obvious sign.

Another concern is that the student body has essentially abandoned this program. Virtually all of the support from the program comes from the residents of Durham and some alums. While student support was never spectacular under Coach G, it improved annually, and the students would show up in huge numbers and fill the student section for MD/UNC/Tenn/UConn. Remember, the Goestenkorsville (there was another female reference to the letter G I won't repeat that was used as well) campouts? There has been no Palumboville.

Coach P was hired with the mandate that she was here to finish the job and win national championships and understood that. At no point in the past 3+ years have I once felt that this coaching staff is going to win a national championship. And this is from someone who has supported the team, wants us to win every time out, flies up to games from Florida regularly, watches every game on TV/Internet and has had season tickets for every season since graduating from law school in 2000. Thus, my emotional investment fuels my concern.

I will continue to watch, continue to support, and continue to want our team and staff to do well and I really want us to get the ultimate prize (many times). I just hope that my concerns and prediction about finishing the job are ultimately proved wrong. Certainly, with the recruiting success of late and the fact that we have not heard of recent dissention, the situation has improved.

[sagegrouse]

Another thing that bothered people was the character issues and baggage that P brought to the table. Around the time she was hired, her husband, a professor at University of Non Compliance, was in the news for biting an airport security official.

What some people liked, although the emphasis seemed unnecessary and even jarring to me, was the way her family was put front and center at her introduction. I thought it was an unnecessary emphasis and a dig at Gail.


Additionally, people didn't like some of her recruiting tactics (the Claire Watkins ordeal)
There is a bit more to this than the various NY Times articles on non-events at Amaker's Harvard program. IIRC, and there has to be a first time, Duke was prepared to honor her scholarship but not to give her a place or a tryout for the team. So P made a mistake with a player offered a scholarship and decided on the proper way to handle it. I haven't kept track of Clair's play (or even where she went), but it is often better to put mistakes in the rearview mirror as soon as possible. Also for women's players, a Duke degree is worth a lot more than some basketball trophies.


The NCAA tourney flame-outs were legit concerns, mainly because how the games were lost. Her first season, Duke was a #1 seed and had to travel to play Michigan State on Michigan State's homecourt. The game was tied with 3:45 left in the game, and MSU went on a 16-2 run to close the game. 5 field goals in the paint and 6 free throws. Last year, Duke had Baylor beat until the closing minutes. After Krystal Thomas fouled out, Brittney Griner took over in the paint and sealed a trip to the Final Four for the Bears. These losses were alarming because P had billed herself as a coach who "lives for March" and prides herself on defense. Yet on the big stage, it was her defense that broke down and the downfall for the Blue Devils.

No question -- McCallie's first couple of years were a rough adjustment for her, and she may have behaved in a non-Duke way. But it was esp. difficult for the players, who were just not ready for her style or the substantive differences with G.

I sense she is not having problems with "her" players, but it's true that the pressure will be on win in the NCAAs.


I give the team credit because in the tough games this season (Texas A&M, Xavier, Kentucky, Maryland), it was the defense that took over and sealed wins in each of these games.

Agreed


Throw in that she seemingly took everything G related down in the offices, took the names off the back of the uniforms (which she has brought back this year), allowing Al Brown to wear those 1988 Bill Cosby sweaters instead of nice suits, and even had Al Brown on staff, who, to put it nicely, is not in a lot of coaches' T-Mobile Fav 5, was enough to put people on edge...

These are what we used to call "high school debating points," in that they are really silly. She probably had a bunch of stuff she wanted on the walls, and who cares how the assistants dress -- I mean, Sylvia Hatchell is in the same conference!

sagegrouse
'My interest in Duke WBB was re-awakened only by the last three minutes against Maryland. I look forward to great play and exciting games'

[CameronBornAndBred]

The recruiting was not up to par before that, I think bringing in Tricia Stafford-Odom has done a world of good for recruiting.

Great post MS. The hiring of T S-O is one of the best moves made by Coach P since she's been here. She was proven before at Cal and has only continued her excellence at Duke. I don't think her contributions go unnoticed, but just in case, the current condition of Duke women's basketball owes her a world of thanks.

[killerleft]

That wasn't her first season. That was her second season.

Her husband was not a professor at our mortal enemy. He went there. A far worse sin in my book.

The biggest issues regarding the transition were that Coach G built the program from virtually nothing, made Duke at worst a top-5 program consistently, her teams were fun to watch, you felt that while she was cursed in the postseason, the day would come someday (a la Coach K) where she would get a ring. Also, as time went on, the students supported the team (more on that below).

Joe Alleva, who I think should be considered without debate the worst athletic director in Duke history, made some unwise statements in the public about Coach G coming back when she was thinking about Texas and the widespread belief was that he really did not care about keeping her and did not make the effort he should have. I've also been told that there was some friction between G and Alleva, which had at least some impact on her decision, even if it was not the deciding factor.

There were a lot of questions about Coach P's credentials (the aforementioned recruiting and "tractor" offense) and whether Duke conducted a very good search for a replacement. The recruiting has been great, obviously, over the past year plus, possibly at a level higher than Coach G. The recruiting was not up to par before that, I think bringing in Tricia Stafford-Odom has done a world of good for recruiting.

The tractor offense concerns have come true and quite frankly watching this team is quite painful at times. I record the men's and women's games and like to go back and watch good games. I have no desire to go back and rewatch any women's game of the past 3+ years due to the offense. I can count the number of screens set in the Coach P era on two hands (yes, I understand that the offense is run though the post first and is a different style of offense, than a motion offense, but still) and an examination of the assist/turnover ratio in each boxscore since 2007 is astounding, but consistent.

There were a number of concerns in 2008 and 2009 about how the returning players felt and were treated. The departure of Emily Waner was the most obvious sign.

Another concern is that the student body has essentially abandoned this program. Virtually all of the support from the program comes from the residents of Durham and some alums. While student support was never spectacular under Coach G, it improved annually, and the students would show up in huge numbers and fill the student section for MD/UNC/Tenn/UConn. Remember, the Goestenkorsville (there was another female reference to the letter G I won't repeat that was used as well) campouts? There has been no Palumboville.

Coach P was hired with the mandate that she was here to finish the job and win national championships and understood that. At no point in the past 3+ years have I once felt that this coaching staff is going to win a national championship. And this is from someone who has supported the team, wants us to win every time out, flies up to games from Florida regularly, watches every game on TV/Internet and has had season tickets for every season since graduating from law school in 2000. Thus, my emotional investment fuels my concern.

I will continue to watch, continue to support, and continue to want our team and staff to do well and I really want us to get the ultimate prize (many times). I just hope that my concerns and prediction about finishing the job are ultimately proved wrong. Certainly, with the recruiting success of late and the fact that we have not heard of recent dissention, the situation has improved.

Your concerns are (in general) the ones fans have when there is a turnover in coaches. The same kind of concerns were voiced when Coach K took over and for the next few years. All defense, not enough offense, shooters benched in favor of better defenders.

Perhaps Coach P could have softened the blow regarding her coaching style versus Coach G's. But one of my concerns with Coach G was that the players lacked toughness at times. Our present players may not be as offensively gifted as Coach G's teams, but they seem to grind out wins in close games somehow.

I'm not sure where you are coming from on the "mandate" that Coach P is under to win NCAA championships, other than everybody wants to win 'em.

The students? That's on them, just like coming to football games.

I certainly agree that the tractor offense, as you call it, is not easy on the eyes. These later recruits should really help with that. Looks like we have some scorers now.

The women's program certainly took a hit when Coach Goestenkors left. Most programs, men's and women's, do when they lose a top level coach. The transition wasn't smooth, and the Waners were a casualty of that. I have no idea whose fault that was, though. The new coach often gets the blame (especially when crowd favorites seem to lose effectiveness). Coach McCalley hasn't told the world what really went on, and didn't throw any players under the bus, so we may never know.

Coach P is still way under the umbrella given Coach K by the athletics department back in the early 80s. So far she gets two thumbs up as far as I am concerned. As far as any real or imagined mandates, it took Coach K more than a decade to win a national championship.

I am really afraid of how things will go at Duke if Coach K's successor at Duke can't immediately produce big-time. Every rumor and fear can undermine the new regime. But at least we've got a blueprint ready.

[Class of '94]

While I enjoyed watching Coach G's teams (starting with Alana Beard's incoming class) and the style of play offensively that they utilized, Coach G's teams in that era seemed to be mentally fragile. I remember the different times that G would talk about helping her teams relax more and not tense up during tough times, and to stay positive during those tough times. With each year, Coach P's teams have gotten stronger and tougher mentally as evidenced with this year's team. And while their offense is not great right now, I think they can improve and get much better. I'm looking forward to their game with UConn to see how far they've come.

And as a side note, I wonder if Abby's problems had more to do with mentally not getting over the misses in the NCAA championship game that might have helped them win the game and losing Coach G than anything Coach P did or didn't do.

[msdukie]

Your concerns are (in general) the ones fans have when there is a turnover in coaches. The same kind of concerns were voiced when Coach K took over and for the next few years. All defense, not enough offense, shooters benched in favor of better defenders.

Perhaps Coach P could have softened the blow regarding her coaching style versus Coach G's. But one of my concerns with Coach G was that the players lacked toughness at times. Our present players may not be as offensively gifted as Coach G's teams, but they seem to grind out wins in close games somehow.

I'm not sure where you are coming from on the "mandate" that Coach P is under to win NCAA championships, other than everybody wants to win 'em.

The students? That's on them, just like coming to football games.

I certainly agree that the tractor offense, as you call it, is not easy on the eyes. These later recruits should really help with that. Looks like we have some scorers now.

The women's program certainly took a hit when Coach Goestenkors left. Most programs, men's and women's, do when they lose a top level coach. The transition wasn't smooth, and the Waners were a casualty of that. I have no idea whose fault that was, though. The new coach often gets the blame (especially when crowd favorites seem to lose effectiveness). Coach McCalley hasn't told the world what really went on, and didn't throw any players under the bus, so we may never know.

Coach P is still way under the umbrella given Coach K by the athletics department back in the early 80s. So far she gets two thumbs up as far as I am concerned. As far as any real or imagined mandates, it took Coach K more than a decade to win a national championship.

I am really afraid of how things will go at Duke if Coach K's successor at Duke can't immediately produce big-time. Every rumor and fear can undermine the new regime. But at least we've got a blueprint ready.

Alleva and Coach P upon her arrival both said on multiple occasions that she was there to finish the job Coach G didn't get done. Coach K's eventual retirement will be a completely different can of worms, plus his replacement will not be the result of the same circumstances.

[uh_no]

Speaking for me only:


4. Ivory Latta always having our number, even in the years we had no trouble dispatching UConn and Tennessee




I'm not sure a miracle at the buzzer counts as 'having no trouble' with uconn....

[Duvall]

I'm not sure a miracle at the buzzer counts as 'having no trouble' with uconn....

Two trips to the Nutmeg State, two wins over the Huskies. Good enough.

[killerleft]

Alleva and Coach P upon her arrival both said on multiple occasions that she was there to finish the job Coach G didn't get done. Coach K's eventual retirement will be a completely different can of worms, plus his replacement will not be the result of the same circumstances.

You are right on both fronts.

Did anybody really think the timetable on winning it all meant immediately? Sounds great, would have been great, but that's some powerful pressure.

Coach K may go out on top of the world with his 7th title and another Olympic win, but don't kid yourself that reactions will be substantially different for his successor. The grace period may be a bit longer, but essentially the same people will not be patient if things don't go very well. Duke fans aren't different than others when it comes to demanding success.

Once again, I wish the offense was better. If it doesn't improve soon I'll have to revisit my opinions. There are always concerns. We have fans second-guessing Coach K, arguably the best basketball coach ever. But at this point in her tenure, I would give Coach P a solid B+ at the very worst.