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MChambers
01-06-2011, 04:28 PM
Enough of this talk of toes, doghouses, use of the bench and the rest. Time to get back to business, with another ACC game, this against our respected friends from Alaska.

Thoughts? I'm wondering if Gary will throw a press at us, with Irving out. We didn't look so good against Oregon's press. On the other hand, pressing Duke in Cameron is probably asking for a lot of trouble, in the form of dunks and wide-open threes.

As some of you have mentioned, another aspect to watch is our defense on Jordan Williams. Can our bigs defend without fouling?

Discuss.

gam7
01-06-2011, 04:33 PM
Enough of this talk of toes, doghouses, use of the bench and the rest. Time to get back to business, with another ACC game, this against our respected friends from Alaska.

Thoughts? I'm wondering if Gary will throw a press at us, with Irving out. We didn't look so good against Oregon's press. On the other hand, pressing Duke in Cameron is probably asking for a lot of trouble, in the form of dunks and wide-open threes.

As some of you have mentioned, another aspect to watch is our defense on Jordan Williams. Can our bigs defend without fouling?

Discuss.

As of today, Pomeroy has Maryland as the highest rated team remaining on our schedule. In fact, the game @Maryland is now projected to be our toughest game of the season. This is going to be tough.

Also, Crazies, Alex Murphy, high school Class of 2012, will be in the house.

gam7
01-06-2011, 04:56 PM
One other thing: Maryland was the last team to beat Duke.

Bob Green
01-06-2011, 08:11 PM
On 11/30/2005, Indiana's Marco Killingsworth scored 34 points and grabbed 10 rebounds in a game against Duke. It was a dominating individual performance. Why do I bring it up? Two reasons: first, Maryland's Jordan Williams is capable of putting up similar numbers. He is averaging 17.6 points and 11.8 rebounds per game. The more important reason for reflecting upon Killingsworth is Duke won the game against Indiana 75-67.

When I first kicked back and reflected upon the upcoming game with Maryland, my initial thought was we had to figure out a scheme to contain Williams. Then I remembered the Indiana/Killingsworth game and decided the key to beating Maryland isn't to contain their star but rather shutdown the other four players on the court beside him.

Maryland is currently ranked #15 by Ken Pomeroy and are near the top of the ACC in multiple statistical categories. The Terps are #2 in scoring offense, scoring margin, field goal percentages, field goal percentage defense, rebounding margin, blocked shots, assists and offensive rebounds. They are #1 in offensive rebound percentage and #3 in defensive rebounds, assists/turnover ratio, rebounding offense and 3-pt field goal percentage defense.

They do not have a bad loss on their record losing to #4 Pitt by nine points, #16 Illinois by four points, Temple by three points, and Boston College by four points. The home loss to Boston College was definitely disappointing for the Terps but I cannot view it as a bad loss.

Maryland will be a tough test for our Blue Devils, but hey, in-conference games are suppose to be tough!

Newton_14
01-06-2011, 09:06 PM
On 11/30/2005, Indiana's Marco Killingsworth scored 34 points and grabbed 10 rebounds in a game against Duke. It was a dominating individual performance. Why do I bring it up? Two reasons: first, Maryland's Jordan Williams is capable of putting up similar numbers. He is averaging 17.6 points and 11.8 rebounds per game. The more important reason for reflecting upon Killingsworth is Duke won the game against Indiana 75-67.

When I first kicked back and reflected upon the upcoming game with Maryland, my initial thought was we had to figure out a scheme to contain Williams. Then I remembered the Indiana/Killingsworth game and decided the key to beating Maryland isn't to contain their star but rather shutdown the other four players on the court beside him.

Maryland is currently ranked #15 by Ken Pomeroy and are near the top of the ACC in multiple statistical categories. The Terps are #2 in scoring offense, scoring margin, field goal percentages, field goal percentage defense, rebounding margin, blocked shots, assists and offensive rebounds. They are #1 in offensive rebound percentage and #3 in defensive rebounds, assists/turnover ratio, rebounding offense and 3-pt field goal percentage defense.

They do not have a bad loss on their record losing to #4 Pitt by nine points, #16 Illinois by four points, Temple by three points, and Boston College by four points. The home loss to Boston College was definitely disappointing for the Terps but I cannot view it as a bad loss.

Maryland will be a tough test for our Blue Devils, but hey, in-conference games are suppose to be tough!

Great write up Bob. I am interested to see if K will choose to double team Williams to force the ball out of his hands early or if he will let Miles and Mason defend him straight up and look to shutdown the other 4. Kelly is a good shotblocker from the weakside and should get opportunities in this game.

I am really looking forward to this game. First time in a long time that I will be in Cameron for the Maryland game, so I am excited. The real crazies will be back in full force, so I expect the building to be rocking. (The stand-in Crazies did an excellent job over the break and should be applauded)

Our 3 bigs have their work cut out for them, lets hope they rise to the challenge and come up big. Seth is due for a breakout game as well, and I have a sneaky suspicion it just may come Sunday Night...

ncexnyc
01-06-2011, 09:10 PM
The consensus on the board after the Miami game was that Big Reggie was able to rumble at will, because we designed our D to stop their two guards. Since Jordan Williams is probably a better player than Reggie, do we design our D to stop Williams or some other facet of the Maryland offense?

CDu
01-07-2011, 07:20 AM
On 11/30/2005, Indiana's Marco Killingsworth scored 34 points and grabbed 10 rebounds in a game against Duke. It was a dominating individual performance. Why do I bring it up? Two reasons: first, Maryland's Jordan Williams is capable of putting up similar numbers. He is averaging 17.6 points and 11.8 rebounds per game. The more important reason for reflecting upon Killingsworth is Duke won the game against Indiana 75-67.

When I first kicked back and reflected upon the upcoming game with Maryland, my initial thought was we had to figure out a scheme to contain Williams. Then I remembered the Indiana/Killingsworth game and decided the key to beating Maryland isn't to contain their star but rather shutdown the other four players on the court beside him.

That's an interesting thought. It seems to be counter to what we've tried to do most of this season (i.e., take away the opponent's best option and make the others beat us). While Maryland has a few decent scoring options (Tucker, Stoglin, Bowie) from the perimeter, they don't have anyone nearly as imposing as Williams. I'm more inclined to believe that we'll try to pressure the perimeter to make entry passes more difficult and provide post help on Williams whenever he does get the ball so as to prevent him from taking over.

It will be interesting to see whether we go with eliminating the star and making the others beat us or shutting down the others and letting the star get his. We've definitely seen both approaches in the past. Personally, I'd prefer we just shut down everyone :)


Maryland is currently ranked #15 by Ken Pomeroy and are near the top of the ACC in multiple statistical categories. The Terps are #2 in scoring offense, scoring margin, field goal percentages, field goal percentage defense, rebounding margin, blocked shots, assists and offensive rebounds. They are #1 in offensive rebound percentage and #3 in defensive rebounds, assists/turnover ratio, rebounding offense and 3-pt field goal percentage defense.

They do not have a bad loss on their record losing to #4 Pitt by nine points, #16 Illinois by four points, Temple by three points, and Boston College by four points. The home loss to Boston College was definitely disappointing for the Terps but I cannot view it as a bad loss.

Maryland will be a tough test for our Blue Devils, but hey, in-conference games are suppose to be tough!

I'm not sure what to make of Maryland. As you say, they have no bad losses. But they also have no meaningful wins either. The best part of their resume consists of neutral court losses that weren't blowouts. It's hard to really know how good this team is. Part of me hopes that Maryland's Pomeroy numbers are a bit inflated.

Bob Green
01-07-2011, 08:04 AM
Great write up Bob. I am interested to see if K will choose to double team Williams to force the ball out of his hands early or if he will let Miles and Mason defend him straight up and look to shutdown the other 4. Kelly is a good shotblocker from the weakside and should get opportunities in this game.

Thanks! I appreciate the props. Double teaming Williams seems like the obvious strategy but my experience in watching Duke basketball is that Coach Krzyzewski frequently forgoes the obvious. Double teaming Williams could be playing to Maryland's strength. Executing a full court press in an attempt to completely disrupt Maryland's offensive flow is another option.


I'm more inclined to believe that we'll try to pressure the perimeter to make entry passes more difficult and provide post help on Williams whenever he does get the ball so as to prevent him from taking over.

I definitely agree we will pressure the perimeter to make entry passes more difficult. The less Jordan Williams has the ball in his hands the less opportunity for him to score. It will be interesting to see if we double team him once he receives a pass or if we concentrate on defensive rebounding position to limit him to one scoring opportunity per possession.

My point is one star player cannot defeat a balanced team attack. In the game referenced, Indiana had two double digit scorers with 34 and 11 points, while Duke had four with 29, 13, 13 and 12. Williams running up some gaudy numbers will not automatically equal a Maryland victory.

I'm really looking forward to the contest (of course, I'm always really looking forward to the next Duke game).

4decadedukie
01-07-2011, 08:22 AM
I hope we beat the Terps like a rented mule. No team -- even UNC -- do I disrespect as much as Maryland!

devildeac
01-07-2011, 08:59 AM
It will also be interesting to see if md has some sort of zone press ready for us with Irving out.

sagegrouse
01-07-2011, 09:53 AM
62 points -- 62 points. That's the combined margin for Duke over Maryland in Cameron the last two years. Gary will have something up his sleeve (besides, of course, a bunch of sponges). Moreover, he has had weeks to prepare for this match. Although Duke appears far better on paper, except for Jordan Williams, I expect a really tough game.

It would be natural to run the offense through big Williams, who is very talented. Duke could decide to provide help defense, which give his teammates open shots. Or, Duke could go one-on-one with Jordan and lock down the perimeter, believing that our front line is deep enough to play tough defense the entire game.

On defense, I suppose Maryland will try some of everything. Pressing from the git-go is a possibility, but it had to be chilling for Gary and the other ACC coaches to see how explosively Duke opened the game against UAB. Guarding the perimeter in the hopes that Duke's big men are unlikely to score a lot is a possibility as well, although that won't keep Nolan, Kyle, Andre and Seth from having good looks, and -- of course -- playing tight on Nolan on the perimeter would let him drive and score or drive and dish. Gary's defensive choices will be interesting to watch.

sagegrouse

J_C_Steel
01-07-2011, 10:31 AM
I know Duke's last loss was to Maryland (at Maryland), but the Blue Devils' last loss in Cameron was to the Heels, right? It's been a while. (Furiously knocking on wood.)

Though I'm an optimistic fan who always believes Duke will win every game, I'm not in the "hoping for an undefeated season" category. I just hope for titles and hardware. That said, I always like to see Duke run the table in Cameron.

UrinalCake
01-07-2011, 10:41 AM
Another strategy would be to run like crazy in hopes that Williams will tire out. With our personnel we have a lot of options so we'll just have to wait and see what K cooks up.

There will be a lot of teams clustered together in the middle of the ACC standings, and every team knows that the one thing that will set them apart from the rest would be a win against Duke (and to a lesser extend, Carolina). So as is always the case, we'll get every team's best shot. Don't be surprised to see some of Maryland's less-heralded players come up with big games.

Also, I remember the Killingsworth game. While he went off, Duke stayed at home on the perimeter and forced their potent guards into 2-10 from three.

J_C_Steel
01-07-2011, 10:49 AM
Well, Duke can always send big guys out there to foul Williams. He's a terrible free-throw shooter and the Blue Devils could potentially use a guy like Hairston just for fouls to give him trouble on the block.

GODUKEGO
01-07-2011, 11:19 AM
Article about Sunday's game from the Washington Post with a prediction of the outcome:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/box-seats/2011/01/maryland-duke_preview.html

Good article from Maryland about the Devils:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/565756-maryland-basketball-team-travels-to-land-of-mordor-to-face-duke

J_C_Steel
01-07-2011, 11:25 AM
Article about Sunday's game from the Washington Post with a prediction of the outcome:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/box-seats/2011/01/maryland-duke_preview.html

Gotta love optimistic fans. The Crazies will be in full flower Sunday night...

flyingdutchdevil
01-07-2011, 11:30 AM
May I ask who organized this game against our second "rival" ACC team (I know we only have one rival, but you get my point) when the Crazies are STILL on holiday? The hardcore Cameron Crazies will most likely be in attendance, but the majority of students, many who habitually attend games, probably won't yet be at Duke (at least that is how it was between 03-07 when I was there).

mkirsh
01-07-2011, 11:31 AM
Williams isn't a great passer out of the post (7 assists on the season), and UMd is mediocre from 3 (35% as a team, best shooter is at 40%), so I would expect big-to-big doubling when he catches it on the block (Miles/Mason guarding him with Kelly doubling from the weak side), which is a look we have used a bunch this season. Also expect to see the Duke standard of pressuring the guards to make the entry passes difficult.

The other key in my mind is to keep them off the offensive glass where they are grabbing 38% of their misses, and has been one of the few "weaknesses" we have shown this year from a statistical perspective.

In both cases, going to need a strong effort from the bigs on the defensive side.

Add in the chip that Nolan plays with against Md (hometown team, plus revenge from the concussion) and this will be a fun game to watch.

jimsumner
01-07-2011, 11:34 AM
Article about Sunday's game from the Washington Post with a prediction of the outcome:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/box-seats/2011/01/maryland-duke_preview.html

Good article from Maryland about the Devils:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/565756-maryland-basketball-team-travels-to-land-of-mordor-to-face-duke

I think I'd take Duke and six points.

OldPhiKap
01-07-2011, 11:44 AM
Some very good thoughts on this thread (as usual).

I think the main attack on Williams will be to keep the ball out of his hands by pressuring the perimeter and trying to overplay the pass into him, and then try to get the ball out of his hands by collapsing and trying to force a pass. The second part of that probably means a fair number of fouls, so the bigguns need to play smart (and, when they foul, make sure the shot doesn't get up).

But Bob Green's observations are in line with what we have done over the years with a number of exceptional players -- if we don't have a lock-down defender that can really thwart them, make it as difficult as possible but really key on stopping a second or third person from killing us. And, offensively, plan on 3's outpacing 2's.

Go Duke, Turtle Soup!

-bdbd
01-07-2011, 12:07 PM
Article about Sunday's game from the Washington Post with a prediction of the outcome:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/box-seats/2011/01/maryland-duke_preview.html

Good article from Maryland about the Devils:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/565756-maryland-basketball-team-travels-to-land-of-mordor-to-face-duke

One thing you learn being in DC, is that the sportwriters' best way to ingratiate themselves to the fans/readers around here is to talk up (positively) the Terps and the Hokies (and to lesser extent the Wahoos). The serious Terp fans that I know don't seem nearly so confident of a win, just hoping to "keep it close and competitive" if possible. Remember that fragile MD psyche... They'll be watching and rooting in droves, but then cursing Sweaty Gary afterwards.

If they were to get the unexpected win, a riot in College Park is a virtual certainty.

Especially with one of the best ACC opponents coming to town Sunday, and maybe our top 2012 recruit in the house, I sure hope the Crazies show up in full (and loud, creative) force!!!

stals
01-07-2011, 12:13 PM
It's interesting that Pomeroy (#14) and Sagarin (#48) have ranked MD so differently. Sagarin ranks UNC, BC and Miami ahead of the Twerps while Pom's rating makes MD our toughest opponent of the regular season. This might be an interesting game, but I expect Duke's depth and versatility and MD's lack of guard play will result in a 15 point fairly comfortable win.,

GODUKEGO
01-07-2011, 12:21 PM
Terps & Blue Devils stats and standings in the NCAA:

Terps
POINTS PER GAME 80.6 22nd
REBOUNDS PER GAME 41.9 8th
ASSISTS PER GAME 17.4 20th
FIELD GOAL PCT .497 11th
3 point % .348 151st

Consistent except from 3.

Blue Devils
POINTS PER GAME 89.0 2nd
REBOUNDS PER GAME 37.8 82nd
ASSISTS PER GAME 17.4 18th
FIELD GOAL PCT .501 7th
3 point % .438 3rd

Kedsy
01-07-2011, 12:26 PM
Article about Sunday's game from the Washington Post with a prediction of the outcome:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/box-seats/2011/01/maryland-duke_preview.html

Can't believe that shoddy article was in the Washington Post. He couldn't even get the statistics right.


If they were to get the unexpected win, a riot in College Park is a virtual certainty.

Based on the past decade or so, isn't a riot in College Park a virtual certainty no matter what the outcome of the game?

jipops
01-07-2011, 12:30 PM
I do expect us to get beat up inside and fouls amongst our bigs is probably going to be an issue. I say this because of Miami's big man going 9-10 against us. The big key is how well Smith, Singler, and Dawkins are able to defend. This will be a low-scoring ugly game. I'm sure the Terps will be keying on Smith defensively, not giving him paths to the lane, and try to force turnovers. We really only have 2 capable ball handlers out there at any given time unless we go small. So given the likelihood of foul issues underneath and the need for productive possessions I wouldn't be surprised at all to see our smallest lineup out there for much of the 2nd half - which means we could be eaten alive on the boards.

Kedsy
01-07-2011, 12:33 PM
We really only have 2 capable ball handlers out there at any given time unless we go small.

You don't think Kyle is a capable ball handler?


I wouldn't be surprised at all to see our smallest lineup out there for much of the 2nd half

You may be right, but I would be surprised. We'll just have to wait and see, I suppose.

Billy Dat
01-07-2011, 12:38 PM
Jordan Williams is a beast - when he wants to be. I think we need to formulate some variation on @UNC-CH 2001 and run, run, run, run until his lungs fall out. He is not in good shape, and he is not a good free throw shooter. I think we really need to push tempo, which is a place where all our bigs have the advantage.

They are having a PG identity crisis so that is also an area we may be able to exploit. When they do run their half court sets, we've got to make it as difficult as possible to throw that entry pass. Of course, their flex usually gets them really nice looks in and around the basket.

Olympic Fan
01-07-2011, 12:41 PM
Keep in mind the linked article to the Washington Post was not written by a Post sports writer -- it was a product of the fan blog. It's about as insightful or useful as something on the Bleacher Report.

Obviously, anything can happen -- and in 2008 Maryland did go to Chapel Hill and give No. 1 UNC its first loss -- but I'm more impressed by the fact that Maryland's last three trips to Durham have resulted in double-figure losses. They did have a good stretch in Cameron between 2000-7 (4-4 in Durham over that span), although that was a different generation of players.

I respect Gary as much as anybody, but he's not a miracle worker. Since winning the national title in 2002, Maryland has missed the NCAA Tournament in three of the last eight years. I think the Terps are going to have to struggle to make it this year.

When Duke goes to College Park on Feb. 2, I will really be worried -- that will be one of Duke's two toughest road games (the season-ender in Chapel Hill being the other).

But I would be VERY surprised if the Terps upset Duke in Durham.

CDu
01-07-2011, 12:52 PM
It's interesting that Pomeroy (#14) and Sagarin (#48) have ranked MD so differently. Sagarin ranks UNC, BC and Miami ahead of the Twerps while Pom's rating makes MD our toughest opponent of the regular season. This might be an interesting game, but I expect Duke's depth and versatility and MD's lack of guard play will result in a 15 point fairly comfortable win.,

I'm more inclined to agree with Sagarin on this one. Maryland just hasn't beaten any good teams yet, and they've lost the two toss-up games that they've played so far (both at home). A ranking of 48 feels more in line with their results. But, I guess we'll see when Maryland starts playing slightly better teams more consistently.

davekay1971
01-07-2011, 01:27 PM
I'm looking for Duke to pressure the perimeter and interior passing, leaving the Plums and, should the foul situation become more troublesome, Hairston, to play man on Williams. Williams will get his points - but if we keep him at or under 20 and 10 (and play good D on the other four players) we should do fine.

I'm excited for our guys to play Williams, so our bigs can get some valuable experience playing a potent inside player...thinking here of a possible high stakes matchup down the road (Ohio State and Mr. Sullinger sometime in early April).

Ultrarunner
01-07-2011, 02:34 PM
I'm looking for Duke to pressure the perimeter and interior passing, leaving the Plums and, should the foul situation become more troublesome, Hairston, to play man on Williams. Williams will get his points - but if we keep him at or under 20 and 10 (and play good D on the other four players) we should do fine.

I'm excited for our guys to play Williams, so our bigs can get some valuable experience playing a potent inside player...thinking here of a possible high stakes matchup down the road (Ohio State and Mr. Sullinger sometime in early April).

I'm not sure I expect to see a whole lot of Mason on Williams if we can help it. On the other hand, I think you can expect a very good game from Miles - if he can stay out of foul trouble. Also, I would expect to see Ryan on Williams before Mason. Ryan is much better at playing position defense and has a bit more bulk. I like to see what happens if we front Williams.

I agree that it will be a good test but Sullinger is another level up from Williams - quicker and more polished from what little I've seen.

Kedsy
01-07-2011, 03:11 PM
Ryan is much better at playing position defense and has a bit more bulk.

A year ago, did anybody believe we'd ever see the above sentence? Ryan has come a long way in not such a long time.

Duvall
01-07-2011, 03:17 PM
Can't believe that shoddy article was in the Washington Post. He couldn't even get the statistics right.

Sounds like a good fit for the Washington Post.

superdave
01-07-2011, 03:17 PM
May I ask who organized this game against our second "rival" ACC team (I know we only have one rival, but you get my point) when the Crazies are STILL on holiday? The hardcore Cameron Crazies will most likely be in attendance, but the majority of students, many who habitually attend games, probably won't yet be at Duke (at least that is how it was between 03-07 when I was there).

Are Duke students already camping out for tickets? That usually starts pretty soon after Christmas, right?

dukebsbll14
01-07-2011, 04:00 PM
Are Duke students already camping out for tickets? That usually starts pretty soon after Christmas, right?

Tenting officially starts tomorrow. Dorms also open up tomorrow too, so I think we'll actually draw a decent sized crowd. All of the hardcore Crazies will be back and since the semester starts 3 days after this game I don't see any reason why a lot of people wouldn't come (unless their flights don't aren't till later...)

Also, I think I'll leave this here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8bwyv3Mxss&feature=fvw

whereinthehellami
01-07-2011, 04:06 PM
MD's stats are 50% FG, 65% FT, 35% 3PT, 17-15 A:TO, 7 SPG, 6 BPG


Duke's stats are 50% FG, 75% FT, 44% 3PT, 17:13 A:TO, 9 SPG, 5 BPG


In 3 of the 4 losses Dino Gregory has had 4 fouls.


Jordan Williams is shooting 17.6 PPG, 11.8 RPG, 58% FG, 50% FT, 98 FTA


Stoglin is making 43% of his 3PTers, making 17 of them (tucker has the most with 18).


Duke has 4 guys shooting 40% or better from 3 (Singler 40%, Smith 41%, Curry 45%, & Dawkins 54%).


Duke has 4 guys with more than 21 (more than any maryland player) made 3 pointers (Curry 21, smith 22, Singler 32, & Dawkins 35).

superdave
01-07-2011, 04:28 PM
Tenting officially starts tomorrow. Dorms also open up tomorrow too, so I think we'll actually draw a decent sized crowd. All of the hardcore Crazies will be back and since the semester starts 3 days after this game I don't see any reason why a lot of people wouldn't come (unless their flights don't aren't till later...)

Also, I think I'll leave this here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8bwyv3Mxss&feature=fvw

My first thought was that it was going to be Gary Williams hanging out at Dewey in his alligator loafers. Then I thought, wow, I bet they play "Danger Zone" which they did. Finally I thought Gary Just looked a little unnatural doing all that.

Can't wait for the game!

MChambers
01-07-2011, 04:40 PM
I'm more inclined to agree with Sagarin on this one. Maryland just hasn't beaten any good teams yet, and they've lost the two toss-up games that they've played so far (both at home). A ranking of 48 feels more in line with their results. But, I guess we'll see when Maryland starts playing slightly better teams more consistently.
Depends on which Sagarin you're using. Under the Pure Points method, he's got Maryland at #22. Sagarin says the Pure Points method is more predictive than the Chess version.

devildeac
01-07-2011, 05:30 PM
My first thought was that it was going to be Gary Williams hanging out at Dewey in his alligator loafers. Then I thought, wow, I bet they play "Danger Zone" which they did. Finally I thought Gary Just looked a little unnatural doing all that.

Can't wait for the game!

Wonder if we could get K to ride in a tank up to the CIS entrance for a CTC in the near future:rolleyes:...

CDu
01-07-2011, 05:56 PM
Depends on which Sagarin you're using. Under the Pure Points method, he's got Maryland at #22. Sagarin says the Pure Points method is more predictive than the Chess version.

Well, that's still worse than Pomeroy. But I wonder if even that's a bit too high. I guess we'll get a better idea as the season progresses.

dukeluv
01-07-2011, 08:52 PM
just got tickets to be in da house for this one. Really excited as Nolan has risen to challenge with Irving out. I am looking forward to a rowdy crowd even though Duke
students don't take the rivalry part as strong as the media makes it out. BUt it is ACC time. Lets seperate the men from the boys..... GO DUKE

roywhite
01-07-2011, 09:15 PM
From one of the comments below the Wash. Post article that was linked earlier in this thread:


Kevin Cowherd said this AM that fans hate Duke because of their success and excellence - can any MD fan agree with that? Those of us in the ACC non-Carolina schools get frustrated playing 5 on 6...and that will be a key in the game. and


Nevertheless, in a year in which the conference has but one star team, that sixth man will be alive on the court, and we will all be frustrated in the end

Terping about the officiating before the game even begins. Classic.

Bob Green
01-07-2011, 09:19 PM
Terping about the officiating before the game even begins. Classic.

5 on 6? I'm pretty disappointed in this Twerping. Any Duke hater worth their salt knows it is always 5 on 8 when playing Duke. Gheesh, these guys can't even complain right.

:cool:

ncexnyc
01-07-2011, 09:24 PM
5 on 6? I'm pretty disappointed in this Twerping. Any Duke hater worth their salt knows it is always 5 on 8 when playing Duke. Gheesh, these guys can't even complain right.

:cool:
Maybe the twerp fans haven't quite reached the level of heel fans. When they start crying about hand checking, flopping, and kicking the leg out on jumpers then they will be true haters.

jipops
01-07-2011, 09:31 PM
You don't think Kyle is a capable ball handler?





Yeah, I do think Kyle is a capable ball handler. He is one of the guys I was referring to. With our starting lineup it his Kyle and Nolan that can bring it up and create some flow in the offense. It isn't really a strength of Andre (who I might add has been playing outstanding defense). Now if we sub Andre for Seth then that does actually give us 3.

Kedsy
01-07-2011, 09:32 PM
Maybe the twerp fans haven't quite reached the level of heel fans. When they start crying about hand checking, flopping, and kicking the leg out on jumpers then they will be true haters.

Trust me, they're already true haters.

Kedsy
01-07-2011, 09:37 PM
Yeah, I do think Kyle is a capable ball handler. He is one of the guys I was referring to. With our starting lineup it his Kyle and Nolan that can bring it up and create some flow in the offense. It isn't really a strength of Andre (who I might add has been playing outstanding defense). Now if we sub Andre for Seth then that does actually give us 3.

OK, I guess that's true with our starting lineup from the UAB game. Although Seth was in our starting lineup in the two games before that, which is what I was thinking of. Mason and Ryan handle the ball reasonably well for big men, but I agree not if you're looking at it without regard to position.

roywhite
01-07-2011, 09:40 PM
Maybe the twerp fans haven't quite reached the level of heel fans. When they start crying about hand checking, flopping, and kicking the leg out on jumpers then they will be true haters.


Trust me, they're already true haters.

Yeah, I think you've captured some important elements here. The Terp fans are true haters, but they don't know the nuances of the game well enough to get into comments like "hand checking, flopping, and kicking the leg out on jumpers".

One group are basketball fans and our rivals; the other group hates us.

jipops
01-07-2011, 09:45 PM
OK, I guess that's true with our starting lineup from the UAB game. Although Seth was in our starting lineup in the two games before that, which is what I was thinking of. Mason and Ryan handle the ball reasonably well for big men, but I agree not if you're looking at it without regard to position.

Yes, Mason and Ryan handle it exceptionally well for big men. But they aren't facilitators. I'm a bit concerned that this could be the first game where we see just how much we miss having that other ball handler. I'm not saying it is going to mean a loss, though it certainly could. Regardless, there could be more exposure to our current weaknesses.

Bob Green
01-07-2011, 09:53 PM
I'm a bit concerned that this could be the first game where we see just how much we miss having that other ball handler.

I'll acknowledge upfront Dawkins' handle is a bit suspect; however, "breaking the press 101" states pass over the trap instead of trying to dribble through it. Kelly and Mason Plumlee should be able to help break the press so I think we will be fine, but I do expect Maryland to apply the pressure and attempt to upset our offensive flow.

If Maryland presses with success, look for Tyler Thornton to see some extended minutes. He is a real asset who is ready and available to play.

devildeac
01-07-2011, 11:58 PM
5 on 6? I'm pretty disappointed in this Twerping. Any Duke hater worth their salt knows it is always 5 on 8 when playing Duke. Gheesh, these guys can't even complain right.

:cool:

That's a "higher math" course at college park:rolleyes:.

Dukeface88
01-08-2011, 01:45 AM
5 on 6? I'm pretty disappointed in this Twerping. Any Duke hater worth their salt knows it is always 5 on 8 when playing Duke. Gheesh, these guys can't even complain right.

:cool:

I'm going to be charitable and assume he's complimenting the Crazies and/or admitting that K is worth an extra man on the court. Mostly because I think that's the response they would find more irritating :p

Edit: But just for the record, Maryland gets more calls than we do (http://www.scacchoops.com/FoulDifferential.asp).

Indoor66
01-08-2011, 07:16 AM
I thought the article linked on the main page about the MD game was clever rather than terribly anti Duke. Obviously he was a MD fan but his writing was not inappropriate, IMO.

jipops
01-08-2011, 10:23 AM
I'll acknowledge upfront Dawkins' handle is a bit suspect; however, "breaking the press 101" states pass over the trap instead of trying to dribble through it. Kelly and Mason Plumlee should be able to help break the press so I think we will be fine, but I do expect Maryland to apply the pressure and attempt to upset our offensive flow.

If Maryland presses with success, look for Tyler Thornton to see some extended minutes. He is a real asset who is ready and available to play.

I'm really not concerned with the press. With guys like Mason and Ryan we can throw over the top. It's the halfcourt that is a concern. I suspect we'll have problems with our offensive sets and we aren't as strong when the sets break down.

Maryland presents problems with their D. And Gary is one of the better coaches in the country. I don't think a Maryland upset would be as surprising as many would think. This is one of the tougher home games of the season if not the toughest.

ScreechTDX1847
01-08-2011, 10:51 AM
Article about Sunday's game from the Washington Post with a prediction of the outcome:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/box-seats/2011/01/maryland-duke_preview.html

Good article from Maryland about the Devils:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/565756-maryland-basketball-team-travels-to-land-of-mordor-to-face-duke

What about this part from the Post article?

"I have one question for you. Who is the one coach in the entire country that you would want to put together a team to go face not only your rival, but the number one team in the country? Regardless of who you root for, I’d be EXTREMELY surprised if the answer wasn’t resoundingly Gary Williams."

What?!?:confused:

Bob Green
01-08-2011, 11:15 AM
He’s beaten the top ranked team in the country seven times during his career, more than any other active coach in the country."

What?!?:confused:

Gary Williams is a very good coach. Personally I do not believe he is as good as Coach Krzyzewski, Coach Izzo or Coach Boeheim, but he is definitely one of the top coaches in the country and the second best in the ACC.

The preview (http://www.testudotimes.com/2011/1/7/1920127/first-look-at-maryland-duke-acc-season-has-returned) DBR linked from the Testudo Times really disrespected our front court players. Basically we have no chance against Jordan Williams according to the author.

The best commentary comes down in the comments section where mmford10 states:


We also can’t miss free throws, but that’s true of any game. To me, starting strong — which includes keeping Williams out of foul trouble and on the floor — will be the most important thing, along with limiting turnovers and making free throws.

It seems mmford10 is definitely a glass half full type guy because getting into foul trouble and missing free throws are a couple of Jordan Williams' specialties (along with being a beast in the low post).

Chris Stoner
01-08-2011, 11:52 AM
Jordan Williams is a beast - when he wants to be. I think we need to formulate some variation on @UNC-CH 2001 and run, run, run, run until his lungs fall out. He is not in good shape, and he is not a good free throw shooter. I think we really need to push tempo, which is a place where all our bigs have the advantage.

They are having a PG identity crisis so that is also an area we may be able to exploit. When they do run their half court sets, we've got to make it as difficult as possible to throw that entry pass. Of course, their flex usually gets them really nice looks in and around the basket.

Williams hustles all the time, and is in far better shape than he was last year. Duke playing a full running game would play to MD's strengths, as the Terps will have a far easier time scoring in transition than they will be against a strong 1/2 court defense.

I do expect the Blue Devils to do a lot of pressing, and it remains to be seen how the Terps handle that.

Chris Stoner
01-08-2011, 11:57 AM
Maryland has shown they can play with good teams on a neutral court, but have not yet shown they can beat them.

As such, I'm not willing to say the Terps are ready to go to Duke and win. I think Pomeroy's pick of a 13 point Duke win seems right.

I could see Duke blowing MD out. JWilliams gets in foul-trouble early, Duke forces MD into a bunch of turnovers with a full-court press, and the Devils bury a bunch of 3's.

I can see MD being in the game. They let Duke do what they want inside, and they get out on the shooters. Williams dominates inside, and Stoglin & Tucker in particular score enough to keep things relatively close. Of course if that happens, Duke just plays Hack-a-Williams down the stretch and forces him to hit shots from the line.

moonpie23
01-08-2011, 12:14 PM
i worry about gary coming into cameron more than any other acc coach.....he ALWAYS brings the heat....


this is going to be a tough match........


i love this team.....

gw67
01-08-2011, 12:22 PM
I’ve watched 9-10 of the Terps games this year so I’ll add my two cents to this thread. They have a 10-4 record, a low RPI but a very good rating by Pomeroy (14th). They have lost to Pitt, Illinois, Temple and BC. All four games were close and the Terps outplayed Temple and BC, IMO. Keys in all four games were lousy three-point shooting by the Terps balanced by good defense and decent inside play. In addition, Maryland shot poorly from the foul line in three of the games. These four losses highlight the strengths and weaknesses of this year’s team. Strengths are team defense, inside play, and sharing the ball. Weaknesses are three-point shooting, foul shooting, occasional inability to feed Williams, and lack of another go-to player to help Williams. IMO, the Pomeroy rating is accurate. They are an above average offensive team and a good defensive team; however, their season has started like so many in recent years where they have gotten off to slow starts. I can’t put my finger on the cause but the common thread is their coach, Gary Williams. I suspect that his early season practices emphasize areas for the long run rather than getting the kids ready to kick off the season but who knows.

For Duke fans who have not seen Maryland play, I’ll provide a thumbnail of some of the players.

Jordan Williams is a 6-8 to 6-9 center who has lost some weight and has made major improvements to his game. His strengths are great hands, runs the court well, physical strength and a competitive attitude. His chief weakness is foul shooting.

Bowie, Tucker and Gregory are three seniors who have been substitutes for three years but are getting starter minutes as seniors. All are above average defensive players. Each of the three has had a few moments this year but none of them is close to All ACC caliber.

Mosely is a two-year starter who was expected to step up this year but seems to have regressed as more responsibility was imposed upon him. He has remained an above average defensive player.

Stoglin and Howard are freshmen who each average about 18 minutes a game. Howard is a better ballhandler and defensive player while Stoglin is a very good offensive player. By the end of the season, I expect him to be the 2nd best player on the team. IMO, he will be an All ACC player by his junior year.

Padgett and Weijs have provided some decent inside play off the bench and both should be key players next year.

As far as Sunday’s game at CIS, I note that the Terps have lost by 21, 41 and 12 their last three ventures to Duke. This year they are at a size disadvantage at all five positions and a skill disadvantage at four. I expect the Devils to make it very difficult to get the ball into Williams on the post and their young freshmen perimeter players will have to play through several mistakes. They played Pitt but this experience will be at another level. Pomeroy predicts a 13 point victory for the Devils. I see the game getting out of hand for the Terps early and the Duke winning margin being 20-25 points.

gw67

Bob Green
01-08-2011, 12:36 PM
Bowie, Tucker and Gregory are three seniors who have been substitutes for three years but are getting starter minutes as seniors. All are above average defensive players. Each of the three has had a few moments this year but none of them is close to All ACC caliber.

Solid senior leadership provides Coach Gary Williams with a solid base to build this team into a real force by the time March rolls around. I say watch out for Maryland in the ACCT and NCAAT.



Pomeroy predicts a 13 point victory for the Devils. I see the game getting out of hand for the Terps early and the Duke winning margin being 20-25 points.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if we win by 20-25 points. Hopefully you are correct but a 20 point victory would mean Jordan Williams spent the majority of the game in foul trouble. I don't see us blowing this game open with Williams playing major minutes.

Thanks for an informative preview of the Terps.

timmy c
01-08-2011, 05:53 PM
Solid senior leadership provides Coach Gary Williams with a solid base to build this team into a real force by the time March rolls around. I say watch out for Maryland in the ACCT and NCAAT.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if we win by 20-25 points. Hopefully you are correct but a 20 point victory would mean Jordan Williams spent the majority of the game in foul trouble. I don't see us blowing this game open with Williams playing major minutes.



Agreed. Duke has struggled in the frontcourt against post players like Williams.

If you are looking for a chink in the Duke armor, take a look at Miami’s Reggie Johnson. In the game against Duke, Johnson managed 22 points in 23 minutes of action. For those of you who worship at the tempo-free altar, Miami scored 1.05 points per possession and held Duke to 0.89 per possession when Johnson was on the floor.

It might be a stretch to expect Maryland to win in Durham, but if the line was set at 20, I would take the points.

jipops
01-08-2011, 09:21 PM
I see the game getting out of hand for the Terps early and the Duke winning margin being 20-25 points.

gw67

I think I would be more shocked if this were to occur than Maryland coming away with an upset. I just don't see any way that this happens other than Williams picking up 3 fouls in the 1st half. As an earlier poster stated, If Miami's big guy was able to create so many problems for us while he was in (a guy who just went 1-3 against Clemson), then we should expect to see a huge struggle vs Jordan Williams. If our big guys start getting in foul trouble like they have been doing lately, then this could get out of hand going the other way.

I would love to see us actually start attacking inside from the start and go at Williams. I would love to NOT see fade-aways from our big guys in this one. If Jordan gets the ball down low in iso, stay straight up. I don't think we'll lose this game of he gets 25-15. As long as we don't allow him to open up things for everyone else I think we'll be fine.

No matter who wins this, I think tomorrow night is going to show how crazy all this undefeated talk has been.

Kedsy
01-08-2011, 11:24 PM
Agreed. Duke has struggled in the frontcourt against post players like Williams.

If you are looking for a chink in the Duke armor, take a look at Miami’s Reggie Johnson. In the game against Duke, Johnson managed 22 points in 23 minutes of action. For those of you who worship at the tempo-free altar, Miami scored 1.05 points per possession and held Duke to 0.89 per possession when Johnson was on the floor.

It might be a stretch to expect Maryland to win in Durham, but if the line was set at 20, I would take the points.

I think most people would take Maryland if the line was set at 20. That's why it won't be.

Since Duke beat Miami by double figures and the game was never in doubt for the last 25 or so minutes, I'm not sure how one guy's stats for Miami represents a "chink in the Duke armor."

Finally, how many "players like Williams" have we faced this year? Certainly not enough to say we've "struggled" against them, especially since we haven't lost yet and we handled Miami pretty easily. Unless I don't understand what you mean?

sagegrouse
01-08-2011, 11:42 PM
Agreed. Duke has struggled in the frontcourt against post players like Williams.

If you are looking for a chink in the Duke armor, take a look at Miami’s Reggie Johnson. In the game against Duke, Johnson managed 22 points in 23 minutes of action. For those of you who worship at the tempo-free altar, Miami scored 1.05 points per possession and held Duke to 0.89 per possession when Johnson was on the floor.

It might be a stretch to expect Maryland to win in Durham, but if the line was set at 20, I would take the points.

LIke it or not, when Duke blows out to a 26-4 lead after seven minutes, the rest of the game becomes a glorified scrimmage -- unless the losing team makes it a game. Miami narrowed the gap, but the Duke lead was never in jeopardy. Moreover, when Duke became more deliberate on offense at the six minute mark of the second half with an 11-point lead, I thought the defense changed as well, and there was a conscious effort to guard the three and not to foul. This opened things up for young Johnson (who impressed the heck out of me). So, I wouldn't make too much of the "chink in the armor," although there were clearly mistakes, such as lack of help for Mason, that the staff will try to fix.

sagegrouse

cptnflash
01-09-2011, 12:47 AM
Agreed. Duke has struggled in the frontcourt against post players like Williams.

If you are looking for a chink in the Duke armor, take a look at Miami’s Reggie Johnson. In the game against Duke, Johnson managed 22 points in 23 minutes of action. For those of you who worship at the tempo-free altar, Miami scored 1.05 points per possession and held Duke to 0.89 per possession when Johnson was on the floor.

It might be a stretch to expect Maryland to win in Durham, but if the line was set at 20, I would take the points.

+1.

We have struggled to stop talented bigs all year, and will continue to do so because our bigs just aren't that good defensively. Examples: Jimmy Butler of Marquette (22 pts, 6 rebs), Curtis Kelly of K State (19 pts on 8 of 11, 6 rebs), Draymond Green of Mich St (16 pts on 6 of 11, 6 rebs), and of course Reggie Johnson (22 pts on 9 of 10, 9 rebs). What has saved us so far is a combination of foul trouble and the inability of opposing teams' guards to feed their bigs sufficiently (due in no small part to our excellent perimeter).

It's more than a chink in the armor, folks, it's THE major weakness of this team. We will eventually lose because of it. But not tomorrow. I will be stunned if we don't avenge last season's loss. My guess is we win by around 10 points.

Also, regarding the earlier discussions of Sagarin vs. Pomeroy and their divergence regarding Maryland... Sagarin's system is predominantly win/loss based, whereas Pomeroy's is possession based. It's not uncommon for the two systems to disagree fairly dramatically this early in the season. Win/loss based systems are prone to sample size issues early on, because there simply haven't been enough games played to get an accurate read. Pomeroy's system is demonstrably more predictive, simply because there are ~65x more possessions than games played at any point in the season. No system is fool proof, but it is very likely that Maryland is one of the 20 best teams in the country, and quite possibly the second best team in the ACC (although my money is still on UNC for that distinction, figuratively speaking).

Saratoga2
01-09-2011, 07:54 AM
+1.

We have struggled to stop talented bigs all year, and will continue to do so because our bigs just aren't that good defensively. Examples: Jimmy Butler of Marquette (22 pts, 6 rebs), Curtis Kelly of K State (19 pts on 8 of 11, 6 rebs), Draymond Green of Mich St (16 pts on 6 of 11, 6 rebs), and of course Reggie Johnson (22 pts on 9 of 10, 9 rebs). What has saved us so far is a combination of foul trouble and the inability of opposing teams' guards to feed their bigs sufficiently (due in no small part to our excellent perimeter).

It's more than a chink in the armor, folks, it's THE major weakness of this team. We will eventually lose because of it. But not tomorrow. I will be stunned if we don't avenge last season's loss. My guess is we win by around 10 points.

Also, regarding the earlier discussions of Sagarin vs. Pomeroy and their divergence regarding Maryland... Sagarin's system is predominantly win/loss based, whereas Pomeroy's is possession based. It's not uncommon for the two systems to disagree fairly dramatically this early in the season. Win/loss based systems are prone to sample size issues early on, because there simply haven't been enough games played to get an accurate read. Pomeroy's system is demonstrably more predictive, simply because there are ~65x more possessions than games played at any point in the season. No system is fool proof, but it is very likely that Maryland is one of the 20 best teams in the country, and quite possibly the second best team in the ACC (although my money is still on UNC for that distinction, figuratively speaking).

You make a good point with factual information about how prone we are to give up points inside to good big men. We also seem to have more problem guarding the three to date than say last year. So we are likely to give up 60 or more points per game against solid opponents.

What I would bring up is our vulnerability on offense. If someone could slow Nolan down from his incredible high performance level we would need to find points elsewhere. A top defender like Nored could do that or Nolan might get into foul trouble. Singler has been a litte erratic on offense. When he is not hitting his shots, we need him to make the additional pass. Andre is a solid scorer but has not figured in the offense in some games. He gets into the spread the floor and stand around approach which cuts his shots down. There has to be more he can do. We also have Seth who can get points. Inside, we are a little spotty, but should be able to get at least 15 from our 3 bigs. Kelly has shown scoring talent and Mason has the talent to do more.
If and when we get Kyrie back, we will have an additional nearly unstoppable talent. Until then, we need to utilize the offensive talents of more of the players.

tele
01-09-2011, 08:17 AM
I would say, and not very originally, that rebounding will tell the tale. Fouling Williams and putting him on the line isn't necessarily a bad thing, but keeping him off the offensive boards is key. One of the Duke guards may need to help on the boards too, both Nolan and Andre have had 5 or 6 boards in games, this would be another good game to do that. But mainly, the big fellas need to get on the glass.

NSDukeFan
01-09-2011, 09:38 AM
+1.

We have struggled to stop talented bigs all year, and will continue to do so because our bigs just aren't that good defensively. Examples: Jimmy Butler of Marquette (22 pts, 6 rebs), Curtis Kelly of K State (19 pts on 8 of 11, 6 rebs), Draymond Green of Mich St (16 pts on 6 of 11, 6 rebs), and of course Reggie Johnson (22 pts on 9 of 10, 9 rebs). What has saved us so far is a combination of foul trouble and the inability of opposing teams' guards to feed their bigs sufficiently (due in no small part to our excellent perimeter).

It's more than a chink in the armor, folks, it's THE major weakness of this team. We will eventually lose because of it. But not tomorrow. I will be stunned if we don't avenge last season's loss. My guess is we win by around 10 points.

..

I disagree that THE major weakness of the Duke basketball team is that some of the most talented forwards and centers the team has played against have had some good games. My recollection was that Butler was a slashing forward (either playing the wing or playing like a wing) who drove well and hit some threes, Kelly scored well from the high post and moves from the top of the circle and Green is considered a point forward who can score, pass and rebound. To me, they are all very different players than the 300+ pound Johnson and Jordan Williams, more of a solid back to the basket post scorer.

I expect that the better players we play against will continue to be the players the team has the most difficult job defending, but I don't think that is different than any other team and don't know if that qualifies as THE major weakness of the Duke basketball team.

As others have noted, it will be interesting to see how the team defends Williams (Jordan, not Gary) as Duke has not played anyone much like him this year. I don't think that how perimeter forwards Butler, Green and Kelly fared against Duke will give us much insight as to how the team will do against Williams. Just my opinion.

House G
01-09-2011, 10:13 AM
I think most people would take Maryland if the line was set at 20. That's why it won't be.

Since Duke beat Miami by double figures and the game was never in doubt for the last 25 or so minutes, I'm not sure how one guy's stats for Miami represents a "chink in the Duke armor."

Finally, how many "players like Williams" have we faced this year? Certainly not enough to say we've "struggled" against them, especially since we haven't lost yet and we handled Miami pretty easily. Unless I don't understand what you mean?

The current line is Duke -15 1/2. The total is 152 1/2.

cptnflash
01-09-2011, 10:38 AM
I disagree that THE major weakness of the Duke basketball team is that some of the most talented forwards and centers the team has played against have had some good games. My recollection was that Butler was a slashing forward (either playing the wing or playing like a wing) who drove well and hit some threes, Kelly scored well from the high post and moves from the top of the circle and Green is considered a point forward who can score, pass and rebound. To me, they are all very different players than the 300+ pound Johnson and Jordan Williams, more of a solid back to the basket post scorer.



Good point about the stylistic differences between Butler/Kelly/Green and Johnson/Williams. Unfortunately it hasn't seemed to matter much so far in terms of the end result. When the other team has talented bigs, we've been unable to slow them down once they get the ball. Denial of the entry pass and foul trouble are our best bets. Although Williams has not been foul prone this year (2.1 fouls in 31 mpg) so I guess it'll really be up to our perimeter to keep the ball out of his hands.

People who have read my comments in other threads are probably getting tired of my anti-Plumlee sentiments, so I'll try to lay off them for a while after this. But I really believe they're our biggest weakness, and that we will eventually lose road games and tournament game(s) because of them. I have three main areas of concern:

1) Neither are effective offensively. They are both capable of posterizing opponents when the ball is delivered to them with a foot or two of the basket, and Miles will occasionally knock down a 10-12 footer if left completely alone, but that's about it. Check out their Pomeroy offensive ratings, which measure total offensive contribution on a per possession used basis. Plums are the two worst on the team besides Josh (LT) Hairston.

http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Duke

2) Neither are effective defensively. See my previous comments regarding the scoring efficiency of talented bigs they've played against this year. It would be even worse if our perimeter wasn't so good.

3) Neither of them are particularly good rebounders, particularly relative to their athleticism. Given their size and jumping ability, they should both be rebounding monsters, and they would be if they were fundamentally sound and didn't have hands of stone. Our rebounding percentages are our worst "Four Factor" metric, and that's all the more alarming when you consider that more than half of our opponents so far have been cupcakes that were completely overmatched inside from a raw physical size/strength/talent standpoint. Our aggregate rebounding stats including only the six games against real (i.e., top 100) opponents are even worse:

Opponent Pace Off-OReb Def-OReb
Marquette 78 32.9 31.3
Kansas St 75 25.0 37.5
Mich St 74 35.4 45.1
Butler 72 27.0 31.2
Miami FL 70 32.0 36.5
UAB 69 31.7 26.3
Average 73 30.7 34.7

Can't seem to figure out how to paste in that data table without the formatting getting messed up, but the gist of it is we've gotten 30.7% of available offensive rebounds against these six teams, and while allowing them to get 34.7% of available offensive rebounds on their end. K State and Michigan State in particularly really manhandled us on the glass. The Plumlees are not solely responsible, obviously, but in my mind they're the primary culprits.

Tonight's game will be very interesting to watch in this regard. Statistically, Maryland is a much better rebounding team than we are.

And with that, I'll leave the Plumlees alone until they actually cost us a game. I hope it's a long time.

gw67
01-09-2011, 10:42 AM
I'll add to my two cents:


I see where DBR included the link to Mike Wise's column on the coach from the dark side. I did not see the link to the article by Liz Clarke on tonight's game. The link is at the end of this post. The most interesting tidbit is that G. Williams allows his seniors to pick their roomates on the road and Vasquez chose Jordan Williams. In addition to his other good qualities, Williams may have picked up some of Vasquez's leadership qualities. Based on various quotes and his outgoing nature on the court, it appears that he is one of those big men who is also a leader.
It appears that the Terps may have gotten their first "good win" last night in a round about manner - Penn State beat Michign State. Maryland easily handled Penn State at their gym.
This morning, DBR lists Jordan Williams as 6-11. As I mentioned in my previous post, it appears that he is closer to 6-8 than his listed 6-10. He is not 6-11 unless he has grown a bunch recently.
The Terps are getting their act together in the classroom. The seniors in the last three classes have graduated on time and this year's three seniors are on schedule to graduate this spring. My wife wrote a strongly worded letter to the school 4-5 years ago telling them that she as a Maryland alum was embarassed by the graduation rate of the basketball team. Whatever caused the improvement, good for them!


I predicted that Maryland would have a difficult time tonight and probably lose by 20-25 points. I also made the argument in another thread that the Terps are the second best team in the ACC. Some may disagree with me but I don't see the disconnect. Duke has one of its best teams in several years; the matchups are poor for Maryland (think Singler against Mosely); the Duke defense (big men and deny defense on the perimeter) will make it difficult for Williams; and the CIS factor make me think that tonight's game will be a blowout. On the other hand, I think a good case can be made for the Terps going 10-6 or 11-5 in conference and finishing second.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010803163_2.html?sid=ST2011010803770

gw67

Kedsy
01-09-2011, 11:29 AM
LIke it or not, when Duke blows out to a 26-4 lead after seven minutes, the rest of the game becomes a glorified scrimmage -- unless the losing team makes it a game. Miami narrowed the gap, but the Duke lead was never in jeopardy.

I may not be understanding you properly, but my recollection is the 26-4 lead was against UAB, not Miami.


We have struggled to stop talented bigs all year, and will continue to do so because our bigs just aren't that good defensively. Examples: Jimmy Butler of Marquette (22 pts, 6 rebs), Curtis Kelly of K State (19 pts on 8 of 11, 6 rebs), Draymond Green of Mich St (16 pts on 6 of 11, 6 rebs), and of course Reggie Johnson (22 pts on 9 of 10, 9 rebs).
. . .

It's more than a chink in the armor, folks, it's THE major weakness of this team.

To me these statements reflect a misunderstanding of Duke's team defense. Duke's defensive system has often been vulnerable to big games by big men. As an example, iet me share a partial list of big men's performances against Duke in the 2005-06 season:

Marco Killingsworth (Ind), 34/10
LeMarcus Aldridge (Tex), 21/6
Eric Williams (Wake), 17/8, 17/13, & 23/12
Cedric Simmons (NCSU), 28/9
Al Thornton (Fla St), 37/15 & 26/6
Tyler Hansbrough (UNC), 14/9 & 27/10
Craig Smith (BC), 19/10

Does this mean Duke's bigs were "not that good defensively"? I seem to recall Shelden Williams winning the defensive national player of the year.


EDIT: Also, I'm not sure I'd characterize 16/6 from a guy who averages 12/9 as evidence that we couldn't stop Draymond Green. The fact that you had to include him weakens your overall point in my opinion.


What I would bring up is our vulnerability on offense. If someone could slow Nolan down from his incredible high performance level we would need to find points elsewhere.

According to Pomeroy, Duke's offense is the best in the nation. Our adjusted offensive rating has gone up (from 121.8 to 123.2) since Kyrie has been out. This can't possibly be all because of one player.


3) Neither of them are particularly good rebounders, particularly relative to their athleticism. Given their size and jumping ability, they should both be rebounding monsters, and they would be if they were fundamentally sound and didn't have hands of stone.

I more or less disagree with your first two points in this post as well, but I already talked about your defensive point and the offense isn't worth going into. But I did want to talk about this one. According to Pomeroy Mason is the 52nd best defensive rebounder in the country, which I think is pretty good.

You talk about our team rebounding being our worst "four factor" metric, but I'd bet that other than last season rebounding is always our worst four factor metric. Again, our defense is designed in such a way that we almost always give up a lot of offensive rebounds to our opponents, and the way we shoot so many threes on offense, our offensive rebounding is rarely our strongest suit (last year notwithstanding).

Kedsy
01-09-2011, 11:57 AM
Examples: Jimmy Butler of Marquette (22 pts, 6 rebs), Curtis Kelly of K State (19 pts on 8 of 11, 6 rebs), Draymond Green of Mich St (16 pts on 6 of 11, 6 rebs), and of course Reggie Johnson (22 pts on 9 of 10, 9 rebs).

Also, as far as I can tell, Jimmy Butler is a small forward who averages 15+/6. He doesn't play a big man position and I'm not sure why he's even on this list. I've already chimed in on the idea of including Draymond Green's 16/6 (against a season average of 12/9) on a list like this, so the way I see it, you're argument that our bigs are poor defenders boils down to Curtis Kelly (who averaged 12/6 last year and 10/4 this year in limited minutes) going 19/6 and Reggie Johnson going 22/9 when he averages 13/10. Not particularly compelling, IMO.

DukieInBrasil
01-09-2011, 12:02 PM
I'll add to my two cents:

The Terps are getting their act together in the classroom. The seniors in the last three classes have graduated on time and this year's three seniors are on schedule to graduate this spring. My wife wrote a strongly worded letter to the school 4-5 years ago telling them that she as a Maryland alum was embarassed by the graduation rate of the basketball team. Whatever caused the improvement, good for them!

gw67

That's good to hear and I think it is something that the Coach and U should be lauded for. Not the previous horrible record for graduation, but the fact that they have decided to take it seriously. It might also be a reflection of the type of players that Gary is trying to recruit now. In any case, it's a good sign.

Kedsy
01-09-2011, 12:08 PM
3) Neither of them are particularly good rebounders

Sorry to keep talking but I wanted to expand on this point. Mason is currently 6th in the ACC in rebounds per game, 5th in the ACC in defensive rebound % (Miles is 13th), and 9th in the ACC in offensive rebound % (Miles is 20th).

What's your definition of a "particularly good rebounder," then?

Bob Green
01-09-2011, 12:09 PM
People who have read my comments in other threads are probably getting tired of my anti-Plumlee sentiments, so I'll try to lay off them for a while after this. But I really believe they're our biggest weakness, and that we will eventually lose road games and tournament game(s) because of them.

I disagree with your assessment of Miles and Mason Plumlee. While both have holes in their game and lots of room for improvement, neither is a weak player. They are out on the court executing Coach Krzyzewski's game plan.


1) Neither are effective offensively.

I'll concede that neither is consistently effective offensively but you cannot ignore Mason's 25 points against Marquette nor Miles 14 points against Bradley. Both Plumlee brothers can score the basketball, but Duke doesn't look to them for points. Miles and Mason are typically the fourth and fifth option on offense behind Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler and Andre Dawkins (or Seth Curry).

Mason Plumlee needs to improve his performance at the free throw line.


2) Neither are effective defensively.

Miles Plumlee is a solid low post defender. His rotations are much improved so he consistently cuts off the baseline when our opponent attacks from the weakside. Mason still has a lot to learn but he is only a sophomore. I expect Mason will steadily improve as the season progresses.

Duke utilizes a complicated defensive system, which relies upon lots of rotations and help from teammates (I'm certainly not going to try and come across like I understand all the intricacies of the system). When it appears to the casual observer a defender missed their assignment and was burnt, it is often a different player who failed to rotate and provide help. I believe this was the case against Miami when Mason jumped out on Reggie Johnson in the corner and Johnson drove the baseline for a dunk. Where was the help?


3) Neither of them are particularly good rebounders, particularly relative to their athleticism.

I emphatically disagree!

Mason Plumlee leads Duke in rebounding with 7.7 rebounds per game, which is 7th in the ACC. Miles Plumlee is third on the team with 5.1. Those are not shabby numbers so let's put them in historical context. As sophomores, Carlos Boozer averaged 6.5 rpg; Shelden Williams averaged 8.5 rpg; and Danny Ferry 7.8 rpg.

I'd say Mason Plumlee is in very good company statistically. How about Miles?

As juniors, Kenny Dennard averaged 5.2 rpg and Shane Battier averaged 5.6 rpg.

So neither Miles nor Mason is a reincarnation of Elton Brand but they are both solid on the glass.


Tonight's game will be very interesting to watch in this regard. Statistically, Maryland is a much better rebounding team than we are.

I'm definitely interested in revisiting this topic after the Maryland game so I'll meet you in the Post-Game Thread. I will not be surprised when Maryland outrebounds Duke and Jordan Williams records a double-double, but I also will not be surprised when Duke wins the game by double digits (I'll predict 15 points just to lay it out there). Maryland is ranked ahead of Duke in Rebounding Margin, Offensive Rebounds, Defensive Rebounds, while Duke is ranked ahead of Maryland in Scoring Margin, Assist/Turnover Ratio, Steals, Turnover Margin.

It is a function of style of play. Forget about last season, which was a statistical anomaly because Coach Krzyzewski adapted the team's style of play to the personnel available. Duke is back to their traditional strategy of overplaying the perimeter and passing lanes in an attempt to force turnovers. This strategy leaves the team vulnerable on the glass.

I'll close this pro-Plumlee rant by stating my viewpoint is 180 degrees opposite of yours, down the stretch, Duke will win a close game or two due to the Plumlee brothers stepping up at a key moment and making plays that turn the tide. Think Andre Dawkins and those two huge 3-point baskets against Baylor.

gw67
01-09-2011, 12:33 PM
I like both Plumlees. Basketball is still a team game and every team, even an outstanding team like Duke, is going to have role players. Not every player on a team can be a star and some players need to redefine their roles. As others have mentioned, the Duke defensive and offensive schemes can have an effect on the stats of inside players. On several teams, the brothers would be counted on to play a bigger role and their offensive and defensive stats would be more impressive.

gw67

Olympic Fan
01-09-2011, 12:39 PM
I'll close this pro-Plumlee rant by stating my viewpoint is 180 degrees opposite of yours, down the stretch, Duke will win a close game or two due to the Plumlee brothers stepping up at a key moment and making plays that turn the tide.

Well, it's already happened ... Duke's closest game this season -- a five-point victory over Marquette (well, the Michigan State game was also five points) would have been a loss if Mason doesn't step up and contribute 25 points, 12 rebounds, three assists and five blocked shots.

You can cherrypick guys like Green and Kelly and Johnson who had decent (but not great) games against Duke's defense, but it would be a lot more meaningful if that was happening consistently. If the Plumlees are so weak in the post, why didn't Matt Howard chew them up? He's a strong, experienced big man who had 11/4 in 19 minutes (foul trouble) against Zoubek in the title game a year ago ... he got to play 24 minutes against the Plumlees and managed 13/3 (on 5 of 12 shooting). Against K-State, Kelly did some danage off the bench, but their starting post players COMBINED for 5/5. MSU's Green was decent (but hardly overpowering), but their other post players (Roe and Sherman) were relatively ineffective (5/3 and 8/5).

I think we're spoiled. Guys like Smith and Singler and Irving are among the best in the country at their positions. Guys like Miles and Mason (and Ryan) are good players ... they're developing players. They are going to be outplayed at times, but they are going to have their moments.

Will we lose a game along the way when Mason or Miles lets us down? Probably -- but we lost games in the past when JJ Redick let us down. We lost the '02 Indiana game when Jason Williams missed a game-tying free throw. we lost last year's game at Georgia Tech when Kyle Singler missed 11 of 13 shots and Zoubek/Thomas/Plumlees got chewed up inside by Lawal, Favors and company. We lost last year's game at Maryland when Jon Scheyer shot poorly and had twice as many turnovers as assists.

That's not a knock on those guys. Kids have poor games. Sometimes a team can overcome it (like when Duke beat Baylor with Kyle going 0-for-10 from the floor) and sometimes they can't.

Yeah, Miles and/or Mason may cost us a game down the road ... but so might Kyle and/or Nolan. And like you, Bob, I feel confident that those guys will win us a lot more than they cost us.

CameronBornAndBred
01-09-2011, 12:43 PM
Go To Hell Terra...umm..no. :rolleyes:
As much as I wish all of the Crazies were back for this one, I love that there are some folks in Cameron that would not usually be able to go, especially to an ACC game against a team that Duke shares such a history with. Should be a lot of fun, I'll be yelling loudly via my keyboard. GO DUKE!!!

trey_dre20
01-09-2011, 02:15 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned before in this thread, but Alex Murphy, Quinn Cook and a 2013 recruit Jabari Parker are all planning on attending the game tonight so crazies make sure to give them some chants!

Newton_14
01-09-2011, 04:12 PM
Good point about the stylistic differences between Butler/Kelly/Green and Johnson/Williams. Unfortunately it hasn't seemed to matter much so far in terms of the end result. When the other team has talented bigs, we've been unable to slow them down once they get the ball. Denial of the entry pass and foul trouble are our best bets. Although Williams has not been foul prone this year (2.1 fouls in 31 mpg) so I guess it'll really be up to our perimeter to keep the ball out of his hands.

People who have read my comments in other threads are probably getting tired of my anti-Plumlee sentiments, so I'll try to lay off them for a while after this. But I really believe they're our biggest weakness, and that we will eventually lose road games and tournament game(s) because of them. I have three main areas of concern:

1) Neither are effective offensively. They are both capable of posterizing opponents when the ball is delivered to them with a foot or two of the basket, and Miles will occasionally knock down a 10-12 footer if left completely alone, but that's about it. Check out their Pomeroy offensive ratings, which measure total offensive contribution on a per possession used basis. Plums are the two worst on the team besides Josh (LT) Hairston.

http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Duke

2) Neither are effective defensively. See my previous comments regarding the scoring efficiency of talented bigs they've played against this year. It would be even worse if our perimeter wasn't so good.

3) Neither of them are particularly good rebounders, particularly relative to their athleticism. Given their size and jumping ability, they should both be rebounding monsters, and they would be if they were fundamentally sound and didn't have hands of stone. Our rebounding percentages are our worst "Four Factor" metric, and that's all the more alarming when you consider that more than half of our opponents so far have been cupcakes that were completely overmatched inside from a raw physical size/strength/talent standpoint. Our aggregate rebounding stats including only the six games against real (i.e., top 100) opponents are even worse:

Opponent Pace Off-OReb Def-OReb
Marquette 78 32.9 31.3
Kansas St 75 25.0 37.5
Mich St 74 35.4 45.1
Butler 72 27.0 31.2
Miami FL 70 32.0 36.5
UAB 69 31.7 26.3
Average 73 30.7 34.7

Can't seem to figure out how to paste in that data table without the formatting getting messed up, but the gist of it is we've gotten 30.7% of available offensive rebounds against these six teams, and while allowing them to get 34.7% of available offensive rebounds on their end. K State and Michigan State in particularly really manhandled us on the glass. The Plumlees are not solely responsible, obviously, but in my mind they're the primary culprits.

Tonight's game will be very interesting to watch in this regard. Statistically, Maryland is a much better rebounding team than we are.

And with that, I'll leave the Plumlees alone until they actually cost us a game. I hope it's a long time.

Sorry, but disagree with most of this. Some of you guys put far too much emphasis on the Dork Stat websites. Our bigs are not the focal point of our offense. We run very few plays designed for them to score. So citing offensive stats from Kenpom is of little value. You are critizing them for not doing something the staff is not even asking them to do, while admittingly "beating the dead horse senseless".

This team does not have a "Major" weakness. It has weaknesses like any other team, but there is far more good than bad. Our bigs are far better on defense than you are giving them credit for. Our team defense is still a work in progress, but getting better. Many people suggested that the bigs played terrible defense in the Miami game because of how many points the Johnson kid scored, yet Coach K stated in his post game comments that he was very pleased with the defense of Miles, Mason, and Kelly in that game. Wonder why he saw it differently?

Our defense in the Miami game was geared to stopping Miami's guards, and it worked. Johnson benefitted from that by getting layups after our big rotated over to stop the guard penetration, and he got some points from good offensive rebounding. Credit him for taking advantage, but had we geared our defense to key on him, it would have been a different story. (and we would have possibly lost).

Miles is a Jr but playing time wise, he is closer to being a Soph, but still is a good inside defender, and likely our best interior defender. Both Kelly and Mason are young sophomore's seeing heavy minutes for the first time in their career. Kelly has even less playing experience than Mason who missed 6 games last year with the injury. Both are promising young players being thrown into the fire the first time. There is no Zoub's or Lance to bail them out. That said, both have played well (Mason especially so) in the big games this year. Neither of them are seasoned veterans who are going to play perfect basketball night in and night out.

The point is all 3 of the bigs are very much developing players, so maybe the expectations of some are a bit much. They are getting better and will continue to do so. Meanwhile the team is still undefeated and the 3 Bigs have absolutely contributed to that record.

DukeBlueHeart4
01-09-2011, 06:06 PM
Does anyone know where I can watch this game online?

MChambers
01-09-2011, 06:55 PM
We have a really big edge in three point shooting, both in accuracy and volume. If our shooters are on, we could get a pretty comfortable lead. Although I agree that rebounding and not fouling are important, I think three point shooting will be at least as important.

riverside6
01-09-2011, 07:48 PM
live tempo-based stats for the game here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=7004

Starters posted for both teams

ajgoodfella7
01-09-2011, 07:56 PM
Why the hell is japanese drift racing on FSN right now?

Philadukie
01-09-2011, 07:56 PM
Does anyone know if the game will be online?

We have to listen to the Eagles post-mortem for the next three hours in the Philly Comcast market.

ajgoodfella7
01-09-2011, 07:59 PM
Does anyone know if the game will be online?

We have to listen to the Eagles post-mortem for the next three hours in the Philly Comcast market.

Game is supposed to be on FSN, unless you guys have post-game on that channel.

77devil
01-09-2011, 08:00 PM
Does anyone know if the game will be online?

We have to listen to the Eagles post-mortem for the next three hours in the Philly Comcast market.

Game has been moved from comcast sportsnet to the comcast network, channel 99 on Verizon Fios. Has to be carried on Comcast too.

SCMatt33
01-09-2011, 08:01 PM
Does anyone know if the game will be online?

We have to listen to the Eagles post-mortem for the next three hours in the Philly Comcast market.

It is on in Philly. Its on the comcast network instead of comcast sportsnet. The SD channel is 8, HD is 856 (at least in Delco on comcast cable).

DukeBlueHeart4
01-09-2011, 08:02 PM
I have been looking for a while and can't find the game online. Anyone have any clue where it's being streamed? Or if it is?

05dukie
01-09-2011, 08:03 PM
http://www.watch-sports.com/pro/ncaa-hoops-streams/793-0800

DukeBlueHeart4
01-09-2011, 08:04 PM
http://www.watch-sports.com/pro/ncaa-hoops-streams/793-0800

You are my favorite person in the world right now!! Thank you!!! :D

InSpades
01-09-2011, 08:05 PM
HELP! Have Comcast, north jersey, game is listed as being on channel 8, the comcast network, and is decidedly NOT on. Getting some silly political show?! Where is it?!

Kim*
01-09-2011, 08:07 PM
It is on in Philly. Its on the comcast network instead of comcast sportsnet. The SD channel is 8, HD is 856 (at least in Delco on comcast cable).

Oh I had on channel 200. Thanks!

Philadukie
01-09-2011, 08:07 PM
Game has been moved from comcast sportsnet to the comcast network, channel 99 on Verizon Fios. Has to be carried on Comcast too.

Found it, thanks!

Acymetric
01-09-2011, 08:09 PM
Anyone know why the normal announcer (Taylor Durham?) isn't at the game? Seems to be someone I've never heard at Cameron before.

PSurprise
01-09-2011, 08:16 PM
http://www.watch-sports.com/pro/ncaa-hoops-streams/793-0800

Thank You! You're the best (for those of us w/o TV)

GrantIsMyHero
01-09-2011, 08:17 PM
http://www.watch-sports.com/pro/ncaa-hoops-streams/793-0800

You are the man! Thanks for the link!

dairedevil
01-09-2011, 08:23 PM
Why do they have to change camera angles mid-play?

dukebluelemur
01-09-2011, 08:35 PM
Miles and Mason both shooting horrible horrible long jumpshots. Sigh.

dairedevil
01-09-2011, 08:36 PM
Miles and Mason both shooting horrible horrible long jumpshots. Sigh.

And missing when they get one up close. Double sigh.

They're bound to start going in sometime, right?

Son of Mojo
01-09-2011, 08:38 PM
Maryland with 15 total points and Williams has 10 of those.......they don't have anyone else to score. Limit his touches and the put backs he's had. Our shooting percentage is horrible but considering how little defensive fouls are being called can attribute for that. Very physical, as was to be expected from Sweaty's turtles.

dairedevil
01-09-2011, 08:41 PM
these last few trips down the court it's been "live by the 3" and we're dying by it. terps defense cant' be THAT good

mr. synellinden
01-09-2011, 08:41 PM
Baylor-esque three by Dawkins. We need something to get the crowd going.

JMarley50
01-09-2011, 08:44 PM
Maryland with 15 total points and Williams has 10 of those.......they don't have anyone else to score. Limit his touches and the put backs he's had. Our shooting percentage is horrible but considering how little defensive fouls are being called can attribute for that. Very physical, as was to be expected from Sweaty's turtles.

Some of our fellow posters seemed to believe going into this game that the plan was to let Williams get his and shut down everybody else. It doesn't look like its working so well if that is the case. (which I very seriously doubt)

CampbellBlueDevil
01-09-2011, 08:44 PM
Baylor-esque three by Dawkins. We need something to get the crowd going.

He's got ice in his veins... always hits the big shots. First saw that back against Wisconsin last year.

JMarley50
01-09-2011, 08:53 PM
Mason kills me trying to block everything. He is even going after shots that are on their way down instead of boxing his guy out and getting rebound position. I know he is extremely gifted with jumping ability, but sometimes its best to stay on the ground.

FireOgilvie
01-09-2011, 08:58 PM
I don't understand why we have to watch 10 percent of the game from the camera under the basket at the far end of the court. It drives me crazy.

Also, Singler is the man.

jv001
01-09-2011, 08:58 PM
We've been caught running at a Twerp on defense and they blow by us. Other than that, we've played pretty good defense. Andre has let his man get by him on 3 occasions that's resulted in points for the twerps. Very physical game and the refs are letting them play. Go Duke!

dairedevil
01-09-2011, 08:58 PM
Shooting percentages have got to go up for Duke in the second half...only 1 out of 10 3 pt shots, 3 of 5 free throws....nowhere near our averages.

Meanwhile, maryland is beating their averages.. go figure.

Sgt. Dingleberry
01-09-2011, 08:58 PM
It's hard to say if their D is that good or we are just not playing well, but, I thought Maryland looked like the better team that half.

Singler was the best player on the floor, but everybody else really had trouble with their defense. Especially Nolan.

We'll see what happens.

SMO
01-09-2011, 08:58 PM
With the exception of Williams' 2 fouls, MD had things go extremely well for them in the first half...and they're still losing. Despite the poor half (especially 3pt shooting), Duke is in a good position to win this. Let's hope they get a few things worked out during the break.

Faison1
01-09-2011, 08:59 PM
Let me preface everything I say with, I am very irritated right now. So I apologize if I sound overly negative.

1. What is up with the camera angles? I wish they would just show the game rather than trying to get cute with it.

2. Sometimes I wonder what, or if, Mason is thinking out there. Bad shots, fouling on picks, going for the block when the shot is coming down instead of blocking-out on his man on the rebound.

3. Why do we never see replays of fouls on Duke players? But if it's the other way around, we see 3 versions of extra slow-mo.

dairedevil
01-09-2011, 09:00 PM
[QUOTE=FireOgilvie;462938]I don't understand why we have to watch 10 percent of the game from the camera under the basket at the far end of the court. It drives me crazy.

Drives me nuts - especially when they change to the camera mid-pass. Makes it difficult to follow the flow of the game.

DU82
01-09-2011, 09:03 PM
We're getting beat inside on the extra pass after our help defense comes over. Mles and Mason have to stay at home, especially guarding Williams. Let's see how we adjust in the second half.

Mason and Miles were both pulled during the half for stupid defensive plays, getting a "stern talk" from K. (for Miles, it was kicking the ball when there was a loose ball. Mason lost a guy during a set, and stayed out until Miles picked up his second foul.)

Faison1
01-09-2011, 09:04 PM
I'm glad I am not alone in my concerns. On the positive side, I'd say we are poised for a good second half; Singler is a Badass; Ryan Kelly continues to impress me, and I can see his future; if the Terps are hitting their free-throws, you know things have gone right for them, so they're bound to turn.

CLW
01-09-2011, 09:06 PM
Glad I'm not the only one that HATES FSN's broadcasting.

As far as the game, very physical and the shooting has been off. We really need either Mason and/or Miles to step up and score in the post and leave the jacking of 15-20 foot jumpers to the shooters on the team.

1 24 90
01-09-2011, 09:06 PM
I don't understand why we have to watch 10 percent of the game from the camera under the basket at the far end of the court. It drives me crazy.

Also, Singler is the man.

The good news is that there are only 2 more Fox Sports broadcasts this year and then ESPN takes over next year.

Singler rules!

mgtr
01-09-2011, 09:06 PM
So, why are we walking the ball up court? I understand that we are not as fast without Kyrie, but walking it up? Shades of Greg Paulus and Jon Scheyer! We have some great players and a great coach, so lets be the aggressor and move the #$%^ ball!

_TheFakeJWill_
01-09-2011, 09:09 PM
I miss Kyrie in a game like this :( If this game wasnt in Cameron we would be down at the half ( i know its not a profit assumption or anything) but Duke has got to pick up the offense. GO DUKE!!!

I look for Nolan in the 2nd half.

dairedevil
01-09-2011, 09:12 PM
not an auspicious start to the second half..fouls and turnovers and down by 4....sigh again.

hopefully k reams them out and lights a fire under them.

maybe Nolan needs to be called for a charge?

HateCarolina
01-09-2011, 09:12 PM
Just popped on to see what everyone's thoughts were on the ridiculous camera angles....time for some K shock treatment I guess....maybe he can pass some shock to the production team responsible for these BS camera angles.

JMarley50
01-09-2011, 09:14 PM
Dre' is on another planet... Miles just jogged down the floor instead of getting back. It resulted in a nice easy put back for Maryland. What is wrong with these guys?

_Gary
01-09-2011, 09:14 PM
I miss Kyrie in a game like this...

Absolutely! This game is a perfect example of why Kyrie was/is so important to this team. When he went down we not only lost a great PG. We also lost our best perimeter defender. We've been beaten off the dribble several times which has led to many easy layups for Maryland. But the biggest problem is we now don't have anyone to break the defense down when our outside shots aren't falling.

Les Grossman
01-09-2011, 09:15 PM
anyone have a link to watch or listen to the game online?
thx

_Gary
01-09-2011, 09:16 PM
Oh, it looks like Seth is really losing ground in terms of his minutes. I hate seeing that because I don't won't us to be only a 6 man team.

CampbellBlueDevil
01-09-2011, 09:17 PM
Ryan's jumper is so broken looking and evidence of that is his 3 point percentage the last few games.

MartyClark
01-09-2011, 09:18 PM
Dre' is on another planet... Miles just jogged down the floor instead of getting back. It resulted in a nice easy put back for Maryland. What is wrong with these guys?

I think I am sweating more than Gary at this point. Is Maryland's defense that good or are we playing that poorly?

ajgoodfella7
01-09-2011, 09:20 PM
TGIS... Thank God for Singler tonight (even thought the "I" doesn't fit.)

HateCarolina
01-09-2011, 09:20 PM
I think I am sweating more than Gary at this point. Is Maryland's defense that good or are we playing that poorly?

We were playing poorly, but maybe just maybe we found our groove again....and thank you Maryland for fouling on the three by Andre

_Gary
01-09-2011, 09:21 PM
Glad to see Seth hit that jumper and just get fouled on a 3 point attempt. I hope that gets him going and earns him more playing time. We desperately need him!

HateCarolina
01-09-2011, 09:21 PM
Is anyone else's audio sounding strange on FSN tonight, not to mention the bad picture (i.e. color)?

JMarley50
01-09-2011, 09:22 PM
I think I am sweating more than Gary at this point. Is Maryland's defense that good or are we playing that poorly?

We are playing that poorly. Its nice seeing Tyler get in there. I want to see Hairston right now as well. Maybe it will send a message and wake these guys up. Kyle is carrying the team on his back right now.

HateCarolina
01-09-2011, 09:23 PM
We are playing that poorly. Its nice seeing Tyler get in there. I want to see Hairston right now as well. Maybe it will send a message and wake these guys up. Kyle is carrying the team on his back right now.

17 - Singler
20 - rest of team

I agree with the earlier acronym...TGIS

CampbellBlueDevil
01-09-2011, 09:25 PM
I <3 Tyler Thorton

JMarley50
01-09-2011, 09:26 PM
Tyler is playing huge right now!

_Gary
01-09-2011, 09:28 PM
One thing I love about Coach K: he always rides the hot player and the hot 5 on the court. Right now we have a great combo on the floor and he's not going to change that up unless it stops working.

Go Seth, go!!!

JMarley50
01-09-2011, 09:32 PM
The ball pressure is what has turned this game around. Seth and Tyler's ability to pressure the ball is making it a lot tougher to get good clean passes into Williams. I'm loving it. Seth's shot finally started falling too!

Jderf
01-09-2011, 09:33 PM
anyone have a link to watch or listen to the game online?
thx

This is working for me (http://www.watch-sports.com/pro/ncaa-hoops-streams/793-0800). At your own risk.

dairedevil
01-09-2011, 09:33 PM
I wish Nolan would stop forcing the drive inside..it's not working for him tonight.

JMarley50
01-09-2011, 09:39 PM
There was Nolan's charge call. Let's see if he goes off now!

amazinballer323
01-09-2011, 09:39 PM
I miss Jon Scheyer

ajgoodfella7
01-09-2011, 09:40 PM
I just can't stand these open-court charging calls. Palsson didn't even have 2 feet on the ground let alone being set to take that.

dukebluelemur
01-09-2011, 09:43 PM
I just can't stand these open-court charging calls. Palsson didn't even have 2 feet on the ground let alone being set to take that.

But Nolan has showed he runs people down with reckless abandon in the open court, so he doesn't get those calls.

_TheFakeJWill_
01-09-2011, 09:43 PM
I miss Jon Scheyer

I miss Kyrie. both would be affective in this game. Scheyer to slow the ball down and Kyrie to break down the defense and on ball pressure.

ajgoodfella7
01-09-2011, 09:43 PM
Refs feel like they have to make the call because the defender gets run over, but in reality he just basically threw himself in front of Nolan, never set himself, and still gets the call. I just hate that call.

dukebluelemur
01-09-2011, 09:47 PM
What the hell Mason? He tries to dive all the way around his man for an extremely unlikely steal... misses, and gives up the wide open dunk. WHERES YOUR HEAD MAN! A cardboard cutout of Zoubek with his arms up plays better defense.

Les Grossman
01-09-2011, 09:48 PM
This is working for me (http://www.watch-sports.com/pro/ncaa-hoops-streams/793-0800). At your own risk.

Awesome;
thanks

ajgoodfella7
01-09-2011, 09:49 PM
I think TT has shown that he can be counted on to give quality minutes going forward. He has really given Duke a calming presence tonight in what has really been a somewhat out of control game.

MartyClark
01-09-2011, 09:50 PM
Mason has really looked lost tonight. I know he is young but he is offense is very disappointing. I really can't imagine that he is a lottery pick this year.

dairedevil
01-09-2011, 09:51 PM
Thornton has played some valuable minutes, good defense drawing 3rd foul on Williams. Good for him!

DukeGirl4ever
01-09-2011, 09:54 PM
Thornton has played some valuable minutes, good defense drawing 3rd foul on Williams. Good for him!

IMO, he's been the difference maker in this game (besides the obvious, Kyle).
When he came in, we made big defensive stops, he's come up with big hustle plays, and that charge on Williams was all basketball IQ. I had to laugh when I saw Kyle standing there cheering for Tyler before the ref even called the foul. He knew Tyler had his assignment covered....

Seth was big, too!

ajgoodfella7
01-09-2011, 09:54 PM
Thornton also has 4 very important steals tonight. Really happy for him to have a chance to prove he can be an important role player in a tough game. Great news going forward.

Son of Mojo
01-09-2011, 09:55 PM
Love how Tyler's played but my God.........why do both Plumlees feel they have to jump on every shot on defense and feel they have to have rim rattling dunks on offense???? Miles could and should have come down with the ball that last time and shot a layup or something OTHER than what he did. I've discussed this with Capt. a few times........the Plumlees are our Hanson brothers from Slapshot. Put some black glasses on them--they're the high energy, quick shot to the head option for the team but they, on the whole, do not play smart. It's a concern the more I see.

SMO
01-09-2011, 09:55 PM
Miles trying a tomahawk jam when a simple rebound would have resulted in either 2pts or another 30 seconds gone. ARRGH!

JMarley50
01-09-2011, 10:10 PM
What the hell Mason? He tries to dive all the way around his man for an extremely unlikely steal... misses, and gives up the wide open dunk. WHERES YOUR HEAD MAN! A cardboard cutout of Zoubek with his arms up plays better defense.

I agree 100%. I feel like I am constantly "picking" on the Plumlees. Maybe its because I was a post player myself and notice a lot more things that they are doing wrong than some people. But both of them especially Mason do the most bone-headed things. I just don't get it.... But hey I guess since Mason still leads the team in blocks per 40 min played its ok!:rolleyes: