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m g
01-06-2011, 01:51 PM
i've been so impressed by him. admittedly in limited action, he has the best assists/40 and assist/TO ratio on the team. plays great D. i'm no talent scout but he's going to be an important player for duke eventually

Olympic Fan
01-06-2011, 02:12 PM
Nice observation .. I strongly agree.

I think we sometimes take kids for granted who would be lionized at a lot of schools. Sure, it's great when a kid is great right away (as Kyle and Kyrie were), but we've had kids develop too -- Ryan Kelly is doing that now.

Keep in mind that Thornton was the DC player of the year last season, beating out (among others) UNC's celebrated Kendall Marshall. He'd be starting right now at Wake Forest or Virginia and maybe at Maryland.

His time will come at Duke ... so will Josh Hairston. I can't help thinking of how celebrated he would be if he were at Wake Forest today, starting and playing 30 minutes a game. I think he's a better player than McKie, who's a two-time ACC rookie of the week.

Again, his time will come ...

peblnh8
01-06-2011, 02:13 PM
I have no reason to question his basketball savvy, his ability to manage a team, his passion for the game, and his passion for duke. BUT, to me, he just looks a bit slow on the court. he doesn't explode to the basket the same way nolan, kyrie, etc do. Does anybody else get that vibe?

Monmouth77
01-06-2011, 02:21 PM
Thornton is so controlled, and plays with such surprising poise given his inexperience. Beyond Kyrie, he is also the only true point on the roster and our offense immediately takes on an "orderly" feel when he has the ball in his hands. He is a luxury this year and will be a great asset down the road as a steady, pass-first guard and hard-nosed on the ball defender. Love the kid.

ncexnyc
01-06-2011, 02:24 PM
I have no reason to question his basketball savvy, his ability to manage a team, his passion for the game, and his passion for duke. BUT, to me, he just looks a bit slow on the court. he doesn't explode to the basket the same way nolan, kyrie, etc do. Does anybody else get that vibe?

No, I seriously don't get that vibe. Don't make the mistake of comparing what you saw from Kyrie and what you are seeing from Tyler. Kids like Kyrie are few and far between.

You mention Nolan in your post, well exactly how did he look the first time around as our PG? Kids get better year after year, Tyler will too.

NSDukeFan
01-06-2011, 02:29 PM
I have no reason to question his basketball savvy, his ability to manage a team, his passion for the game, and his passion for duke. BUT, to me, he just looks a bit slow on the court. he doesn't explode to the basket the same way nolan, kyrie, etc do. Does anybody else get that vibe?

I am curious to know who your etc. would include as I don't know that there are more than half a dozen players in the country who explode to the basket the same way Nolan and Kyrie do.

4decadedukie
01-06-2011, 02:37 PM
Nice observation ... I strongly agree. I think we sometimes take kids for granted who would be lionized at a lot of other schools

This is absolutely correct and, I believe, one of the real keys to Duke's continuous success.

peblnh8
01-06-2011, 02:38 PM
I've always thought of Nolan being crazy athletic, he just didn't put it all together until last year. He still had some pretty good dunks in his first 2 years. At this point, Tyler has shown me nothing to believe that he can get above the rim at all. In response to the 'ETC' question, I'll say that he looks less explosive than every contributing guard we have had in the last 10 years, with the exception of Paulus. And we all saw how that worked out. I realize that the comparison to other Duke guards is stiff, but we are talking about an elite national program, so that's where the bar should be, IMO.

OldPhiKap
01-06-2011, 02:38 PM
Josh and Tyler both have huge upsides and will be important parts of our team -- this year, and down the road.

Last night, I was reminded that Nolan only scored 5.7 ppg +/- his freshman year.

At Duke, you almost always have an upperclass stud ahead of you when you come in. Just practice hard, listen to coach, and your time will come.

Indoor66
01-06-2011, 02:38 PM
This is absolutely correct and, I believe, one of the real keys to Duke's continuous success.

Yeah, at Virginia they would build a statue to him.

OldPhiKap
01-06-2011, 02:40 PM
This is absolutely correct and, I believe, one of the real keys to Duke's continuous success.

"If Taymon Domzalski came to UVa, we'd build a statue of him and put it on the quad."

-- Pete Gillen (+/-)


(Edit: no fair I66 -- you type quicker than I do!)

Kedsy
01-06-2011, 02:45 PM
I've always thought of Nolan being crazy athletic, he just didn't put it all together until last year. He still had some pretty good dunks in his first 2 years. At this point, Tyler has shown me nothing to believe that he can get above the rim at all.

Are you suggesting that ability to dunk well is a critical skill for a point guard? Or that it should matter at all for a point guard?


In response to the 'ETC' question, I'll say that he looks less explosive than every contributing guard we have had in the last 10 years, with the exception of Paulus. And we all saw how that worked out. I realize that the comparison to other Duke guards is stiff, but we are talking about an elite national program, so that's where the bar should be, IMO.

I believe JJ Redick was a "contributing guard" within the last 10 years, and he wasn't particularly "explosive." And Tommy Amaker, Quin Snyder, and Wojo all did pretty well as Duke PGs. Maybe that's where the bar should be. (Although to be fair, that's a pretty high bar for Tyler to aspire to, as well.)

jdj4duke
01-06-2011, 02:47 PM
He is transferring. So is Hairston. That is the conclusion from some other (UNC) fans and message boards after Nolan and Kyle played 40 minutes against Miami. And since Andre and Seth are seeing minutes as well, there is just no room for either Tyler or Josh. The amount of illogical and wishful thinking in some quarters is amazing, really.

These two guys have shown real flashes of talent already. There is going to be some fun around these parts for a long time.

ChicagoCrazy84
01-06-2011, 02:49 PM
I have no reason to question his basketball savvy, his ability to manage a team, his passion for the game, and his passion for duke. BUT, to me, he just looks a bit slow on the court. he doesn't explode to the basket the same way nolan, kyrie, etc do. Does anybody else get that vibe?

This has nothing to do with Tyler's athletic ability or lackthereof as he can probably guard any PG in the country and have success. Its most likely more of a confidence issue for him. Not to say he lacks confidence, but when you're a freshman and you get on the court 3-5 min a game at best, youre not exactly gonna be flying around the court like John Wall. If he was asked to and was getting more PT, Im sure we'd see something more out of his repetoire.

DallasDevil
01-06-2011, 02:52 PM
Are you suggesting that ability to dunk well is a critical skill for a point guard? Or that it should matter at all for a point guard?



I believe JJ Redick was a "contributing guard" within the last 10 years, and he wasn't particularly "explosive." And Tommy Amaker, Quin Snyder, and Wojo all did pretty well as Duke PGs. Maybe that's where the bar should be. (Although to be fair, that's a pretty high bar for Tyler to aspire to, as well.)

Don't forget Scheyer. And we all saw how well that worked out. I agree with you that I'd much rather have a point guard that protects the ball, runs the offense well, passes well, and plays hard-nosed defense but doesn't dunk as often to one that is "explosive" but can't run the team. In my opinion, Tyler will prove to be a very valuable asset for Duke in the future.

peblnh8
01-06-2011, 02:52 PM
I haven't seen enough of him on the court to say yay/nay about his ability to play the game. And no, I wasn't saying that being hyper-explosive is crucial to playing PG. All I was saying is that he looks slow from what I've seen, and I was asking if anybody else sees the same thing.

COYS
01-06-2011, 02:57 PM
I'll say that he looks less explosive than every contributing guard we have had in the last 10 years, with the exception of Paulus. And we all saw how that worked out. I realize that the comparison to other Duke guards is stiff, but we are talking about an elite national program, so that's where the bar should be, IMO.

Um . . . if Tyler Thornton contributes as much as Paulus contributed over his career we will be in GREAT shape. By Duke standards, Paulus' final three seasons may not have been the stuff of legend, but if Thornton can approach that level of production with all the talent he will have surrounding him, I think Duke will be in excellent shape and every fan on this board will be more than happy comparing Thornton to Paulus.

Kedsy
01-06-2011, 02:59 PM
Don't forget Scheyer. And we all saw how well that worked out. I agree with you that I'd much rather have a point guard that protects the ball, runs the offense well, passes well, and plays hard-nosed defense but doesn't dunk as often to one that is "explosive" but can't run the team. In my opinion, Tyler will prove to be a very valuable asset for Duke in the future.

You're absolutely right. Not sure how I forgot him.

91_92_01_10_15
01-06-2011, 03:05 PM
I haven't seen enough of him on the court to say yay/nay about his ability to play the game. And no, I wasn't saying that being hyper-explosive is crucial to playing PG. All I was saying is that he looks slow from what I've seen, and I was asking if anybody else sees the same thing.

I understand what you're saying, but he looks pretty fleet-footed when he's playing on-the-ball defense to me. I would think that would transition to the offensive end as well at some point.

Aditya
01-06-2011, 03:50 PM
I haven't seen enough of him on the court to say yay/nay about his ability to play the game. And no, I wasn't saying that being hyper-explosive is crucial to playing PG. All I was saying is that he looks slow from what I've seen, and I was asking if anybody else sees the same thing.

Maybe that's not his style given his circumstances. When he steps onto the court he is surrounded by talented scorers. As a pass-first pg, maybe he'd just rather pass the ball to an open player than drive.

Wander
01-06-2011, 04:11 PM
I think Thornton can play a role similar to Sean Dockery if he sticks around a few years.

SupaDave
01-06-2011, 04:17 PM
I think Thornton can play a role similar to Sean Dockery if he sticks around a few years.

There's no IF and I'll take a half-court buzzer beater with that as well sir. No explosion necessary.

(Tyler considers his time at Duke a blessing. Believe it.)

Wander
01-06-2011, 04:33 PM
There's no IF and I'll take a half-court buzzer beater with that as well sir. No explosion necessary.

(Tyler considers his time at Duke a blessing. Believe it.)

Oh, I didn't mean to imply an unhappiness/playing time issue - sometimes there are outside circumstances (Jamal Boykin, Elliot Williams, etc).

SMO
01-06-2011, 04:34 PM
i've been so impressed by him. admittedly in limited action, he has the best assists/40 and assist/TO ratio on the team. plays great D. i'm no talent scout but he's going to be an important player for duke eventually

The beauty of having a guy like Thornton is that he'll be a 4-year player and will have practiced against Irving, Rivers, Dawkins, Curry, Smith, Q. Cook, and whatever other good guards some through the program over the next few years. By the time he's a senior he could be All-ACC. I look forward to seeing him develop.

smcook313
01-06-2011, 04:43 PM
i've been so impressed by him. admittedly in limited action, he has the best assists/40 and assist/TO ratio on the team. plays great D. i'm no talent scout but he's going to be an important player for duke eventually


His play is so solid. You know how some guards just look like they are going to give the ball away, he is exactly the opposite. I feel like the kid would never turn the ball over..like he has total control of the court at all times. He handles situations like a veteran and even under pressure, he doesnt break. Now, he is very timid when it comes to shooting but that will come with time. He has jacked up some 3's but even then I feel like he is thinking when he's shooting. That will fade and confidence will take over. Once he gets a little more rope I really believe his quickness will pick up and his killer instinct will heighten. Right now, I think he is just doing his job...Maintain possession. He is fluid, he is under control, and he will a great guard for Duke. I love his attitude. Actually, him and Josh are so fun watch during the game. They might not play a single minute but they are chearing harder than anyone in the building. These kids love playing for Duke and are such team players. Cant wait to watch them both grow.

SupaDave
01-06-2011, 05:16 PM
Oh, I didn't mean to imply an unhappiness/playing time issue - sometimes there are outside circumstances (Jamal Boykin, Elliot Williams, etc).

No harm meant - just hoping that noone takes that transfer mess seriously.

Supa "isn't it great to have freshmen that don't have to contribute immediately?" Dave

AZLA
01-06-2011, 05:49 PM
His play is so solid. You know how some guards just look like they are going to give the ball away, he is exactly the opposite. I feel like the kid would never turn the ball over..like he has total control of the court at all times. He handles situations like a veteran and even under pressure, he doesnt break. Now, he is very timid when it comes to shooting but that will come with time. He has jacked up some 3's but even then I feel like he is thinking when he's shooting. That will fade and confidence will take over. Once he gets a little more rope I really believe his quickness will pick up and his killer instinct will heighten. Right now, I think he is just doing his job...Maintain possession. He is fluid, he is under control, and he will a great guard for Duke. I love his attitude. Actually, him and Josh are so fun watch during the game. They might not play a single minute but they are chearing harder than anyone in the building. These kids love playing for Duke and are such team players. Cant wait to watch them both grow.

I have to second this description. I'm excited to see Thornton and Hairston get in the game because they are good players. Quickness isn't necessarily offense either. A good gauge is how he plays defense. He's been up against some quality guards this season and he's done a good job keeping in front of them. Thornton is much more mature and talented than a lot of other Freshman guards -- to the point he's in control. I think anyone who thinks he's "slow" is confusing him for methodical. Hairston in my opinion has better (traditional) offensive post moves than either of the Plumlees. Granted, they're providing an above the rim dynamic right now he can't match yet, but Hairston does a great job moving without the ball, having his hands ready and not fumbling the ball when the pass comes in. He's good at securing the pass and going toward the basket and taking contact. I'm hoping he can have develop a quick release in the post like Antawn Jamison did. Sorry to reference a Tarheel, but Jamison did hava unique and effective style of play that Hairston can maybe emulate.

sagegrouse
01-06-2011, 06:09 PM
I've always thought of Nolan being crazy athletic, he just didn't put it all together until last year. He still had some pretty good dunks in his first 2 years. At this point, Tyler has shown me nothing to believe that he can get above the rim at all. In response to the 'ETC' question, I'll say that he looks less explosive than every contributing guard we have had in the last 10 years, with the exception of Paulus. And we all saw how that worked out. I realize that the comparison to other Duke guards is stiff, but we are talking about an elite national program, so that's where the bar should be, IMO.

Have you considered that Tyler's rep is as a lockdown defender, which certainly requires athleticism and quickness? And, to be fair, he is just learning the ropes of the college game and hasn't had a chance to show any offense. Let's wait until he gets a pile of minutes before judging him.

Hurley was also a very good defensive player and set the NCAA record for assists, which still stands. He wasn't explosive in the sense of dunking the ball but could get up and down the court pretty good. Wojo was national defensive player of the year IIRC.

I am afraid Greg Paulus gets remembered as a benched senior and as a guy had a successful career change into college football after Duke. In fact, he was on the All-ACC third team his junior year and was second-team on an All-American freshman team in 2006, when he led the ACC in assists (of course, it never hurts to be passing to JJ ;) ).

sagegrouse

jaimedun34
01-06-2011, 06:42 PM
I'm not sure what you expect from Thornton athletically. I wouldn't be surprised if he never dunks in a game. He's listed at 6'1", but I think he might be pushing 6'0" on a good day. He's not the quickest laterally, but he's not getting blown by off the bounce and he's pretty strong.

He'll be a valuable contributor as a junior and senior. Maybe a consistent contributor next season...

Dr. Tina
01-06-2011, 08:26 PM
I really like seeing Tyler and Josh come into the game to spell the other guys for a few minutes. Tyler does seem very much in control. You can tell he's a true point guard. He takes care of the ball. He gets his teammates involved with good passes. They aren't flashy, but he gets the ball to his guys. He's tenacious on D. Josh has shown some nice moves down low and a nice shot a few times. I think he needs some more muscle on him and more time to adjust to the college game, but I can't complain about his freshman play when he's in the game. Also, Tyler and Josh love Duke and have a tremendous amount of enthusiasm. When they show shots of the bench, they are both cheering their teammates on. This is especially true for Josh. You get the impression he just made the great play with the way he reacts. I love their team spirit and what they're able to bring to the table right now. I think they'll both grow into great 4 year players for Duke

Newton_14
01-06-2011, 08:46 PM
I'm not sure what you expect from Thornton athletically. I wouldn't be surprised if he never dunks in a game. He's listed at 6'1", but I think he might be pushing 6'0" on a good day. He's not the quickest laterally, but he's not getting blown by off the bounce and he's pretty strong.

He'll be a valuable contributor as a junior and senior. Maybe a consistent contributor next season...

Actually lateral quickness is what he does have. That is why he is so good defensively staying in front of his man. That, and he has great instincts in that he seldom falls for fake movement. He is really good at focusing on the core body of the offensive player. Footspeed north/south is where he lacks speed, and he does not have a very quick first step. However, he is as strong as a bulldog which helps him overcome the lack of speed when driving to the basket. In some of the early games where he got a lot of PT he showed some ability to drive and use his upper body to clear space and get the layup.

Solid player. Shot the 3 Ball well in the early games as well. I like Tyler a lot as a point guard. He will get better year over year, but even now I would not be afraid if K had to throw him in a tough game due to foul trouble or something. I like the composure and poise he shows for a Freshman. The steal and hit ahead pass to Mason last night was a great example of that poise. He calmly made the steal and he led Mason perfectly with the pass.

He will make his mark over 4 years at Duke.

Dr. Tina
01-06-2011, 09:09 PM
Actually lateral quickness is what he does have. That is why he is so good defensively staying in front of his man. That, and he has great instincts in that he seldom falls for fake movement. He is really good at focusing on the core body of the offensive player.

To expand on this point, I want to say that I thought a few of our guys did a good job of not getting caught up in the air last night by falling for fake movement. They held their ground and were ready when the opposing player tried to make their real move.

tylervinyard
01-06-2011, 09:57 PM
The adjective I would use for Thornton would be "grounded". Physically and mentally. He can stay with his man on defense and he won't be pushed around easily. He plays under control on offense as well. He may or may not have hops, but it's not like he's needed to showcase any of that in the limited minutes he's been out on the floor.

fgb
01-07-2011, 12:46 AM
let's not overrate "explosiveness". tommy amaker averaged 8.5 ppg for his career, and i think he dunked the ball about once in his four year career, and we did pretty well with him running the team.

tyler is going to be really, really good.

SuperTurkey
01-07-2011, 01:00 AM
"If Taymon Domzalski came to UVa, we'd build a statue of him and put it on the quad."

-- Pete Gillen (+/-)

The statue would have softer hands. :D

Indoor66
01-07-2011, 09:08 AM
To expand on this point, I want to say that I thought a few of our guys did a good job of not getting caught up in the air last night by falling for fake movement. They held their ground and were ready when the opposing player tried to make their real move.

Did you notice that Nolan pulled back many times to avoid a foul on an inside layup by the offense - at times he had little chance of stopping the play and great chance to commit a foul. It was apparent these were choices he made - mature choices.

As I think back, I think the whole teams made better choices on defense plays during this game. Maybe the lessons and film sessions are paying off.

jaimedun34
01-09-2011, 09:50 PM
Actually lateral quickness is what he does have. That is why he is so good defensively staying in front of his man. That, and he has great instincts in that he seldom falls for fake movement. He is really good at focusing on the core body of the offensive player. Footspeed north/south is where he lacks speed, and he does not have a very quick first step. However, he is as strong as a bulldog which helps him overcome the lack of speed when driving to the basket. In some of the early games where he got a lot of PT he showed some ability to drive and use his upper body to clear space and get the layup.


You're right. I was thinking that he didn't have great lateral quickness because he moved his feet well, but he does have it. And I'm very excited about Thornton's prospects, not because I think he'll be a star, but because I think he'll be solid, reliable and steady. And dependable.

ncexnyc
01-09-2011, 10:24 PM
I was wondering if anyone was going to pull this thread back to the forefront. From the look of the MOTM voting it appears the faith the majority of us put in Tyler was rewarded tonight.

Bluedevil114
01-09-2011, 10:29 PM
Thornton was the difference maker tonight. His defense was incredible and the charges and runner in the lane were huge. He grew up quickly tonight and brought a ton of energy.

GODUKEGO
01-09-2011, 11:17 PM
I had a perfect angle of Tyler Thornton's, IMO, play of the game. Terps were down by five. Williams got a rebound and was going up for a three foot put back when Tyler came in a took the ball right out of his hands. Maryland was on a roll at the time and it was beautiful. Have not seen the recorded game, so do not not how this play came across on TV. It was BIG!!!!

mcdukie
01-10-2011, 09:14 AM
I am from the DC area and watched Thornton lead and will his high school team to some big time wins. He knew what he was getting into when he came to Duke as far as playing time goes. Most people in the area thought he should have gone somewhere he would have played more. If you watched Duke All-Access on ESPN you would have seen K giving him credit for his leadership. He is the type of player that will not only know every place he needs to be on the court, but the other players as well.

Having said that, I don't see him as a starter next year. He is a great role player, one of the things that make Duke great is having these kinds of players. The problem is, you can't play them too long or weaknesses will be exposed. I can't see him starting next year, besides Curry don't forget about Quinn Cook coming in. Tyler will have his games, and will be an important part of the team for four years.

killerleft
01-10-2011, 09:44 AM
I am from the DC area and watched Thornton lead and will his high school team to some big time wins. He knew what he was getting into when he came to Duke as far as playing time goes. Most people in the area thought he should have gone somewhere he would have played more. If you watched Duke All-Access on ESPN you would have seen K giving him credit for his leadership. He is the type of player that will not only know every place he needs to be on the court, but the other players as well.

Having said that, I don't see him as a starter next year. He is a great role player, one of the things that make Duke great is having these kinds of players. The problem is, you can't play them too long or weaknesses will be exposed. I can't see him starting next year, besides Curry don't forget about Quinn Cook coming in. Tyler will have his games, and will be an important part of the team for four years.

It will be tough for Tyler to start next year, but I doubt Coach K would agree with what you've written. A few more games like last night's and his minutes will increase accordingly. It would be a shame if any coach would write off any player's chance to be a starter.

He's a work in progress like every guy on the team. Nobody (not even Tyler) can say what his ceiling will be. He has the attributes of a leader. Coach K didn't recruit him to be some sort of bench guy for four years, I'll bet.

Is hamstringing players through reduced expectations a particular weakness of yours? Then post less and we may never know. Doubt you'll ever learn how to make less finite assessments in the future.:)

yancem
01-10-2011, 10:16 AM
Actually lateral quickness is what he does have. That is why he is so good defensively staying in front of his man. That, and he has great instincts in that he seldom falls for fake movement. He is really good at focusing on the core body of the offensive player. Footspeed north/south is where he lacks speed, and he does not have a very quick first step. However, he is as strong as a bulldog which helps him overcome the lack of speed when driving to the basket. In some of the early games where he got a lot of PT he showed some ability to drive and use his upper body to clear space and get the layup.

Solid player. Shot the 3 Ball well in the early games as well. I like Tyler a lot as a point guard. He will get better year over year, but even now I would not be afraid if K had to throw him in a tough game due to foul trouble or something. I like the composure and poise he shows for a Freshman. The steal and hit ahead pass to Mason last night was a great example of that poise. He calmly made the steal and he led Mason perfectly with the pass.

He will make his mark over 4 years at Duke.

Boozer the prophet!

freedevil
01-10-2011, 10:30 AM
Tyler's hustle reminded me, for some reason, of... Wojo.

Great to see him make such an important contribution last night.

Channing
01-10-2011, 10:43 AM
I didn't think Tyler would (a) have an opportunity or (b) really be capable of making a sustained impact this year. However, given his performance last night, I think its safe to say he should at least get a shot.

A true point guard (Nolan has been shoehorned into the role - albeit shoehorned very well) can only help this team. Remember how good Paulus was a freshman when his only job was to get the ball to the other scorers on the team. While Greg may have had a little more offense, I think its clear that TT has a lot more defense. I think (hope) K just found a new wrinkle he can add on a regular basis.

Indoor66
01-10-2011, 11:03 AM
I didn't think Tyler would (a) have an opportunity or (b) really be capable of making a sustained impact this year. However, given his performance last night, I think its safe to say he should at least get a shot.

A true point guard (Nolan has been shoehorned into the role - albeit shoehorned very well) can only help this team. Remember how good Paulus was a freshman when his only job was to get the ball to the other scorers on the team. While Greg may have had a little more offense, I think its clear that TT has a lot more defense. I think (hope) K just found a new wrinkle he can add on a regular basis.

I basically agree with your post. I take some issue with the TT offense point. I do not think he has had a chance to show is offensive capabilities. On those occasions when he has, he has done quite well. He has a quality mid-range game and handles floaters very well. He can and will be a quality player for us - on both ends of the court.

tylervinyard
01-10-2011, 11:20 AM
I basically agree with your post. I take some issue with the TT offense point. I do not think he has had a chance to show is offensive capabilities. On those occasions when he has, he has done quite well. He has a quality mid-range game and handles floaters very well. He can and will be a quality player for us - on both ends of the court.

Not to mention that he actually has a nice three-point shot. I saw him over the summer knock down 20+ in a row from downtown albeit with no defense being played on him as it was in warming up for a game.

J_C_Steel
01-10-2011, 12:27 PM
I didn't think Tyler would (a) have an opportunity or (b) really be capable of making a sustained impact this year. However, given his performance last night, I think its safe to say he should at least get a shot.

A true point guard (Nolan has been shoehorned into the role - albeit shoehorned very well) can only help this team. Remember how good Paulus was a freshman when his only job was to get the ball to the other scorers on the team. While Greg may have had a little more offense, I think its clear that TT has a lot more defense. I think (hope) K just found a new wrinkle he can add on a regular basis.

Money post. A pass-first point guard who can play solid, anticipatory defense is a HUGE asset to this Duke team. Thornton certainly supplied that last night. If he can continue to play well, I could see him getting 15 minutes a game or so.

With Singler, Smith, Dawkins/Curry and a Plumlee on the floor, Thornton has so many options on offense that he doesn't need to be a dangerous scorer. He just needs to take care of the ball and hit the open man. And on defense, he needs to stay in front of his man and do the "Duke thing" of stealing cross-court passes.

I like this kid.

UrinalCake
01-10-2011, 12:31 PM
Tyler's hustle reminded me, for some reason, of... Wojo.

Several years ago Wojo had what Coach K called "The greatest one-point performance in history" in a game in which his scoring was limited to a single free throw but he had something like 11 assists and totally controlled the game. I'd have to call Tyler's performance one of the greatest two-point performances. His defensive playmaking totally turned the game around.

Kedsy
01-10-2011, 12:32 PM
If he can continue to play well, I could see him getting 15 minutes a game or so.

Maybe occasionally. With Kyle and Nolan seeing close to 40 minutes a game lately, and assuming none of the top 7 get injured or drop out of the rotation entirely, there just aren't enough minutes to go around to have Tyler or Josh getting 15 minutes on a regular basis.

superdave
01-10-2011, 12:44 PM
Maybe occasionally. With Kyle and Nolan seeing close to 40 minutes a game lately, and assuming none of the top 7 get injured or drop out of the rotation entirely, there just aren't enough minutes to go around to have Tyler or Josh getting 15 minutes on a regular basis.

Does not look like Tyler will take his minutes away from Nolan who went for the full 40 again. DBR should do an app that alerts Duke fans to the fact that Nolan and Kyle have not rested yet!

I think the Maryland game was a great example of Coach K figuring out mid-game what lineup gives him an advantage. Kyle at the 4 was a mismatch and he exploited it. But we also have Nolan, Seth and tyler in the game. That's small. Maryland was trying to play a frentic pace - to speed things up. Tyler was the anti-dote with his on-ball D. But Seth's on-ball D is good too. Maybe that can be our "On-ball D" lineup.

OldPhiKap
01-10-2011, 03:01 PM
Maybe occasionally. With Kyle and Nolan seeing close to 40 minutes a game lately, and assuming none of the top 7 get injured or drop out of the rotation entirely, there just aren't enough minutes to go around to have Tyler or Josh getting 15 minutes on a regular basis.

True, although Tyler's elevated play (if it carries into the next games) can allow Nolan to get a breather by sliding to the wing, or even take a break on the bench.

Having said that, Gary and Izzo both commented that the most remarkable thing about Nolan is that he never tires.

DukieInBrasil
01-10-2011, 05:01 PM
I was looking through Tyler Thornton's stats and I thought two things were rather remarkable for such a quiet scorer: a) shoots more FTs than FGs and b) he has a very high PPS of 2.43, which is highest on the team by far. I think this is a good indicator that he's got qualities that will continue to blossom as a very high-quality PG in the future.
I didn't think that Tyler would provide any meaningful minutes during the ACC season, but he was absolutely essential in the win over MD. He scored on the one opportunity that was presented to him in his role and provided suffocating D to give Duke a few stops and allowed us to gradually stretch the lead out.

Wander
01-10-2011, 05:10 PM
I was looking through Tyler Thornton's stats and I thought two things were rather remarkable for such a quiet scorer: a) shoots more FTs than FGs and b) he has a very high PPS of 2.43, which is highest on the team by far. I think this is a good indicator that he's got qualities that will continue to blossom as a very high-quality PG in the future.

There's unfortunately nothing meaningful we can take from any of Thornton's stats. The sample size is just too small.

SupaDave
01-10-2011, 05:39 PM
There's unfortunately nothing meaningful we can take from any of Thornton's stats. The sample size is just too small.

Just the fact that he has stats is a meaningful thing, IMHO...

Greg_Newton
01-10-2011, 05:39 PM
Actually lateral quickness is what he does have. That is why he is so good defensively staying in front of his man. That, and he has great instincts in that he seldom falls for fake movement. He is really good at focusing on the core body of the offensive player. Footspeed north/south is where he lacks speed, and he does not have a very quick first step. However, he is as strong as a bulldog which helps him overcome the lack of speed when driving to the basket. In some of the early games where he got a lot of PT he showed some ability to drive and use his upper body to clear space and get the layup.

Solid player. Shot the 3 Ball well in the early games as well. I like Tyler a lot as a point guard. He will get better year over year, but even now I would not be afraid if K had to throw him in a tough game due to foul trouble or something. I like the composure and poise he shows for a Freshman. The steal and hit ahead pass to Mason last night was a great example of that poise. He calmly made the steal and he led Mason perfectly with the pass.

He will make his mark over 4 years at Duke.

This is a great post, particularly the observation about not falling for fake movement and focusing on the core. It's something pretty remarkable about Tyler, and kind of reminds me of Ronald Nored. He seems to have such a unique understanding of on-ball defense - I kind of wonder how exactly he developed such a keen sense for basketball movements? A lot of his reactions are so bold they're almost counterintuitive to me, but they're fun to watch.

It's funny, because he's so confident in his anticipation of movement that it leads to fouls fairly often at this stage. I'm thinking that as he gets used to guarding quicker players he'll learn to time his movements a little better and use better spacing, and I'm hoping that we started to see this yesterday.

DukieInBrasil
01-10-2011, 05:59 PM
There's unfortunately nothing meaningful we can take from any of Thornton's stats. The sample size is just too small.
He's played in 13 of the 15 games and has played double digit minutes in 5 games. I don't think it's an un-meaningful amount of games or minutes.

burns15
01-10-2011, 07:01 PM
Having watched Tyler in high school, he flat outplayed both Kendall Marshall and markel Starks ( Georgetown) with regularity

Devilsfan
01-10-2011, 10:08 PM
He needs to take Ryan out to lunch for giving him the opportunity.

Saratoga2
01-11-2011, 06:52 AM
Does not look like Tyler will take his minutes away from Nolan who went for the full 40 again. DBR should do an app that alerts Duke fans to the fact that Nolan and Kyle have not rested yet!

I think the Maryland game was a great example of Coach K figuring out mid-game what lineup gives him an advantage. Kyle at the 4 was a mismatch and he exploited it. But we also have Nolan, Seth and tyler in the game. That's small. Maryland was trying to play a frentic pace - to speed things up. Tyler was the anti-dote with his on-ball D. But Seth's on-ball D is good too. Maybe that can be our "On-ball D" lineup.

With Kyrie potentially sidelined for the year, Tyler provides an intriguing possibility in a lineup featuring Nolan as off guard, Andre at the 3, Kyle at the 4 and Miles at Center. Tyler is strong with the ball, is a pass first guard, and is a terrific defender. With Tyler to take some pressure off Nolan and three premier scorers in the game, the lineup seems to have a great deal of potential going forward.

If we use two bigs (Kelly and either of the Plumlees) then I prefer Seth at the point with Nolan and Kyle. That lineup maintains 3 main scorers in the game and would be good against teams with big front lines. I see Seth's defense as slightly below that of Tyler's.

1991 duke law
01-11-2011, 07:34 AM
Maybe occasionally. With Kyle and Nolan seeing close to 40 minutes a game lately, and assuming none of the top 7 get injured or drop out of the rotation entirely, there just aren't enough minutes to go around to have Tyler or Josh getting 15 minutes on a regular basis.

I agree. Thank goodness Tyler stepped up against the Terps but I am not sold that he will continue to have an integral role in competitive games going forward. I expect that Tyler will get minutes if the team struggles and K needs to shake things up. But if Smith, Dawkins and Curry are on and the games are moderately close I do not see Tyler getting much playing time. That being said, I did not see the Maryland game (no tv coverage where I was) so I cannot say how Tyler played. In what I have seen in him in limited action previously is that he is not ready to step in now and run a team of this caliber (hey, there are very few freshman (or juniors if you look at Carolina) who can do this so that is far from a criticism). The real question is will he have the ability to run it in the future. I ask that because next year (assuming Kyrie leaves) Duke still will have an abundance of guards. If Quinn Cook is able to step in and start, Tyler will be playing behind four guards (Rivers, Currie, Dawkins and Cook). That being said, I have no idea if Cook will come in better prepared than Tyler as a sophomore. I do however question how much playing time Tyler will get. Now every year is fluid with so many early departures so much can change over a four year career so it is entirely possible that by his third year Duke will not be guard heavy.

Anyhow, with Kyrie out Tyler's stepping up is huge and demonstrates why depth is a blessing. But there are only so many minutes in a game and we still have three superb guards (and hopefully four prior to the tournament starting).

nocilla
01-11-2011, 07:49 AM
I agree. Thank goodness Tyler stepped up against the Terps but I am not sold that he will continue to have an integral role in competitive games going forward. I expect that Tyler will get minutes if the team struggles and K needs to shake things up. But if Smith, Dawkins and Curry are on and the games are moderately close I do not see Tyler getting much playing time. That being said, I did not see the Maryland game (no tv coverage where I was) so I cannot say how Tyler played. In what I have seen in him in limited action previously is that he is not ready to step in now and run a team of this caliber (hey, there are very few freshman (or juniors if you look at Carolina) who can do this so that is far from a criticism). The real question is will he have the ability to run it in the future. I ask that because next year (assuming Kyrie leaves) Duke still will have an abundance of guards. If Quinn Cook is able to step in and start, Tyler will be playing behind four guards (Rivers, Currie, Dawkins and Cook). That being said, I have no idea if Cook will come in better prepared than Tyler as a sophomore. I do however question how much playing time Tyler will get. Now every year is fluid with so many early departures so much can change over a four year career so it is entirely possible that by his third year Duke will not be guard heavy.

Anyhow, with Kyrie out Tyler's stepping up is huge and demonstrates why depth is a blessing. But there are only so many minutes in a game and we still have three superb guards (and hopefully four prior to the tournament starting).

I think Dawkins will mostly play at the 3 next year along with Gbinijie. So unless Irving comes back, I don't think there will be that much of a logjam. In fact it would be very similar to this year's roster. Smith, Irving, Dawkins, Curry, Thornton this year compared to Curry, Rivers, Cook, Thornton next year.

Indoor66
01-11-2011, 08:05 AM
I think Dawkins will mostly play at the 3 next year along with Gbinijie. So unless Irving comes back, I don't think there will be that much of a logjam. In fact it would be very similar to this year's roster. Smith, Irving, Dawkins, Curry, Thornton this year compared to Curry, Rivers, Cook, Thornton next year.

Except that next year Tyler is a Sophomore and Cook and Rivers are freshmen. Good as they are, they are freshmen.

nocilla
01-11-2011, 08:17 AM
Except that next year Tyler is a Sophomore and Cook and Rivers are freshmen. Good as they are, they are freshmen.

I agree. I guess I should have stated it, but I did not intend to put them in any particular order as far as depth. I would not be surprised to see Tyler and Rivers as the starting guards.

flyingdutchdevil
01-11-2011, 08:20 AM
I think Dawkins will mostly play at the 3 next year along with Gbinijie. So unless Irving comes back, I don't think there will be that much of a logjam. In fact it would be very similar to this year's roster. Smith, Irving, Dawkins, Curry, Thornton this year compared to Curry, Rivers, Cook, Thornton next year.

I respectfully disagree. We will have a logjam next year at guard, and that is a great problem to have. Personally, I think Kyrie will be back (the fact that he'll miss the majority of the reason coupled with the lack of necessity to declare for the draft will make him stay; however, that is a discussion for another day). Assuming Kyrie stays, that leaves Duke with the following backcourt (positions 1-3):
-Kyrie Irving
-Ty Thornton
-Andre Dawkins
-Seth Curry
-Michael Gbinije
-Austin Rivers
-Quinn Cook

1:
-Kyrie Irving
-Ty Thornton
-Quinn Cook

2:
-Kyrie Irving (He played a lot of 2 in high school)
-Seth Curry
-Andre Dawkins
-Austin Rivers

3:
-Andre Dawkins
-Seth Curry (If we want to play really small)
-Michael Gbinije
-Austin Rivers
-Josh Hairston (If we want to play enormous)

Let's just say that walk-ins in the backcourt won't be necessary for practice.

sagegrouse
01-11-2011, 08:30 AM
I haven't seen enough of him on the court to say yay/nay about his ability to play the game. And no, I wasn't saying that being hyper-explosive is crucial to playing PG. All I was saying is that he looks slow from what I've seen, and I was asking if anybody else sees the same thing.

"What we have here," said the prison warden in Cool Hand Luke, "is a problem in communication." What I see is that an unheralded freshman played a key role in Duke's win in a tough game against Maryland at the beginning of January. I didn't think he looked slow doing so, but I predict that we will see a lot more of him and get to judge his quickness and speed soon enough.

sagegrouse
'Of course, he was POY in the Washington, DC area'

Devil Spawn
01-11-2011, 09:37 AM
If I was a likely lottery pick with a major freshman year injury, why would I take a chance on another college season and the possibility of either re-injuring the original injury, and creating a chronic situation, or sustaining another injury?

A sophomore year injury would not only diminish Kyrie's expected economic windfall, but also could affect his physical performance (and advantage over other athletes) long after he's left Duke.

I hope I'm wrong.

dball
01-11-2011, 12:55 PM
"What we have here," said the prison warden in Cool Hand Luke, "is a problem in communication." What I see is that an unheralded freshman played a key role in Duke's win in a tough game against Maryland at the beginning of January. I didn't think he looked slow doing so, but I predict that we will see a lot more of him and get to judge his quickness and speed soon enough.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate". Pretty sure that's what Coach K said during the early 2nd half timeout. :)

WVDUKEFAN
01-11-2011, 01:19 PM
I appreciate the fact we do well at recruiting guards, but it has been awhile since we have had a "true" point guard. I think we've had a lot of scoring guards who have been somewhat transformed into playing the role of a point guard, but no one who could drive to the basket like Irving.

Kedsy
01-11-2011, 02:01 PM
I appreciate the fact we do well at recruiting guards, but it has been awhile since we have had a "true" point guard. I think we've had a lot of scoring guards who have been somewhat transformed into playing the role of a point guard, but no one who could drive to the basket like Irving.

It's funny how the definition of a "true" point guard has changed so much, at least for some people. It used to be a true PG was a guy who handled and passed well, and could run the team and distribute to his teammates when they were in good positions to score, while a guy who could "drive to the basket like Irving" was considered more of a hybrid, scoring PG.

I prefer the old definition, and would argue that Tyler is more of a "true" point guard than Kyrie. That doesn't mean I think Tyler is a better point guard than Kyrie (I don't), simply that he fits the traditional definition better.

1991 duke law
01-11-2011, 03:16 PM
If I was a likely lottery pick with a major freshman year injury, why would I take a chance on another college season and the possibility of either re-injuring the original injury, and creating a chronic situation, or sustaining another injury?

A sophomore year injury would not only diminish Kyrie's expected economic windfall, but also could affect his physical performance (and advantage over other athletes) long after he's left Duke.

I hope I'm wrong.

Unfortunately I tend to agree with you. If Kyrie had expressed a desire to obtain a degree (like Jason Williams) did, I would think that he would return. But he has (I believe) previously expressed interest in going early so I am doubtful, after demonstrating early in the season how incredible he is, that he would stay another year.

Notwithstanding Rivers being a freshman, he should get significant minutes day one. From all that we have read and heard, he is that good. The real issue will be spreading the minutes between Cook, Andre, Seth and, perhaps, Tyler.

RepoMan
01-11-2011, 03:52 PM
This was K's quote after the game:


I think one he comes from a great high school program and great AAU program. Basically I’ve liked Tyler for over three years because I just thought that Tyler is very mature, he’s an older, young guy and he just been in a lot of tough games before. What he did tonight obviously opens our eyes.


I expect that we may see more of Tyler this year, especially when we want some extra defense or to spell Nolan. I also expect that he will get plenty of time on the court before he graduates. This sounds like the kind of player K likes to have on the court.

BD80
01-12-2011, 09:01 AM
This was K's quote after the game:


I think one he comes from a great high school program and great AAU program. Basically I’ve liked Tyler for over three years because I just thought that Tyler is very mature, he’s an older, young guy and he just been in a lot of tough games before. What he did tonight obviously opens our eyes.


I expect that we may see more of Tyler this year, especially when we want some extra defense or to spell Nolan. I also expect that he will get plenty of time on the court before he graduates. This sounds like the kind of player K likes to have on the court.

I think it is fair to say that we can now go eight deep in ANY game, nine if/when Kyrie returns.

I imagine Tyler is making Nolan a better PG every day in practice, bringing that level of man-on-man D. Nolan is probably looking forward to games, when he gets to be the only one in his shorts.

Bluedevil114
01-14-2011, 12:00 AM
I really think it is time to slow the ball down and run some sets in the half court. It worked last year and without Kyrie we need a true point guard. Nolan is pushing the ball but still not getting the ball down court quick enough aka Irving. Too many turnovers and fast break points are not there. Need to get Nolan back to his natural position of the two so he can create and I think Tyler needs to get more run and maybe start. He will add to our defense giving us to shut down defenders and maybe three with Kyle. This may open up some dribble drive and get the bigs involved. We can go small and move Kyle to the four bringing in Andre or Seth. This will also allow Nolan and Kyle not to use all their energy bringing the ball down the court. This would not be for the entire game but give Thornton a chance to run the offense and slow it down some. Last two games we scored 71 and 61 so it would not hurt to slow it down and get more movement with the ball. If Thornton were to steal the ball a quick pass up the court to a streaking Smith may help with some transition points. Then you replace Kelly and Thornton with Curry and Dawkins and completely change the pace of the game.

Starters for VA:
Thornton PG
Smith SG
Singler SF
Kelly PF
Mason C

gep
01-14-2011, 01:19 AM
Starters for VA:
Thornton PG
Smith SG
Singler SF
Kelly PF
Mason C

I guess I still have much faith in Miles. Starters OK... but Miles should get equal time as Mason...:cool:

Maybe I'm still sentimental about Zoubs... what he went through, how he finished. I guess I see Miles following that finish.

jv001
01-14-2011, 11:28 AM
Starters for VA:
Thornton PG
Smith SG
Singler SF
Kelly PF
Mason C

We don't have that 3rd scorer in this lineup. But it could be ok to start this lineup, but not give it major minutes. Our 3rd scorer(imho) will come from either Seth or Andre. So they will get most of the minutes. Seth plays better defense and Andre is a better shooter(so far). I'm looking forward to see Coach K's adjustments. I just don't want to see so much dribbling and see more passing. Go Duke!

dukeimac
01-14-2011, 04:34 PM
We don't have that 3rd scorer in this lineup. But it could be ok to start this lineup, but not give it major minutes. Our 3rd scorer(imho) will come from either Seth or Andre. So they will get most of the minutes. Seth plays better defense and Andre is a better shooter(so far). I'm looking forward to see Coach K's adjustments. I just don't want to see so much dribbling and see more passing. Go Duke!

Exactly! People are high on Thornton and he is a good defender but he does bring the liability of little to no scoring. Cook offers scoring and that could very well promote him over Tyler next year.

diveonthefloor
01-14-2011, 05:22 PM
Exactly! People are high on Thornton and he is a good defender but he does bring the liability of little to no scoring. Cook offers scoring and that could very well promote him over Tyler next year.

If we're still talking THIS season....and with Kyrie still out....I wouldn't hesitate to put Tyler in....
any of the other wings who play with him are going to be scorers (Nolan, Dre, Seth, Kyle)...
Having Tyler play pure point who looks to assist first and foremost would seem like a no-brainer. And his on ball defense is as valuable as anything!

And if Tyler gets some more time with the first team, don't be surprised to see Mason or Miles reap the benefits of a quick penetrating PG who can feed them in good scoring position.

DukieInBrasil
01-15-2011, 10:20 AM
And if Tyler gets some more time with the first team, don't be surprised to see Mason or Miles reap the benefits of a quick penetrating PG who can feed them in good scoring position.
Precisely! One of the reasons neither MP or Kelly are thought of as offensive threats now is that we don't have a PG that gets them the ball where they can use it. I don't know if TT has shown that he IS that kind of PG, but allowing Nolan to be off-ball all the time is extremely useful in making the rest of our offense less-reliant on just he and Kyle.
Also, I agree about just keeping the discussion of TT to this year's situation.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-15-2011, 11:13 AM
With UVA in the house today, I would not be surprised to see TT get more minutes today as K tests a new look or two.

mcdukie
01-16-2011, 01:40 AM
It will be tough for Tyler to start next year, but I doubt Coach K would agree with what you've written. A few more games like last night's and his minutes will increase accordingly. It would be a shame if any coach would write off any player's chance to be a starter.

He's a work in progress like every guy on the team. Nobody (not even Tyler) can say what his ceiling will be. He has the attributes of a leader. Coach K didn't recruit him to be some sort of bench guy for four years, I'll bet.

Is hamstringing players through reduced expectations a particular weakness of yours? Then post less and we may never know. Doubt you'll ever learn how to make less finite assessments in the future.:)

While I am a big supporter of Thornton, I am confident in my assessment, which I am entitled to. You telling me to post less is uncalled for. Time will only tell what is right or wrong but you are out of line and I doubt if you have half my basketball knowledge.

DukieInBrasil
01-16-2011, 09:28 AM
from killerleft: Is hamstringing players through reduced expectations a particular weakness of yours? Then post less and we may never know. Doubt you'll ever learn how to make less finite assessments in the future.
What a childish and asinine thing to say. At least mcdukie was making an honest assessment about TT from his/her perspective rather than trying to belittle someone else who has an equally non-Duke coaching staff pov.
(sorry about the confusing blockquote, I couldn't find the original comment and didn't feel like digging thru 4 pages of comments to find it ;) )

killerleft
01-16-2011, 02:44 PM
While I am a big supporter of Thornton, I am confident in my assessment, which I am entitled to. You telling me to post less is uncalled for. Time will only tell what is right or wrong but you are out of line and I doubt if you have half my basketball knowledge.

Go back and read your post and my post and you will see that I used your words to describe you as you used them to describe Tyler. Didn't like it, huh?

But I apologize, all the same. I didn't realize you were such a smarty when it comes to basketball!

Devilsfan
01-16-2011, 03:40 PM
I love your reply Killer. Remember Nolan as a Sophomore. He couldn't replace Paulus as our PG. Look at him now. Zoubs as a soph was like a new born giraffe strugling to move his feet. Without him last year we don't win our fourth NC. It goes on and on. Our staff teaches and the progress our type of player makes in two to three years of hard work is terrific. So who knows what Tyler, Ryan or any other player will make. I excited to see every players progess. Go Devils!

Indoor66
01-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Wansn't there some guy who talked about each player running his own race? I wonder what that means?

NSDukeFan
02-15-2011, 02:58 PM
So who had Tyler Thornton in the "who will have played the most minutes out of the freshmen 25 games into the season poll?"

BD80
02-15-2011, 03:24 PM
So who had Tyler Thornton in the "who will have played the most minutes out of the freshmen 25 games into the season poll?"

There was a group that did. The Easter Bunny, Santa, Bigfoot, an honest politician, a classy Maryland fan, a smart tar heel, and all of Kris Lang's good looking relatives.

JayBean
02-15-2011, 07:31 PM
There was a group that did. The Easter Bunny, Santa, Bigfoot, an honest politician, a classy Maryland fan, a smart tar heel, and all of Kris Lang's good looking relatives.

Now, now. I think there is still some believable evidence that BigFoot does exist. To lump BigFoot in with the rest of your imaginary group is a little insulting.

tele
02-15-2011, 09:12 PM
Having the Coach's confidence, enough to get a start or be on the court at the end of a close game, is one thing. But also having the confidence of your teammates, enough so that they are willing to put the ball in your hands in a close endgame going-to-get-fouled situation like the Miami game, says a lot more. I'd say TT responded very well, for a freshman or any other year for that matter. This team is a really good group!

Starter
02-16-2011, 09:10 AM
There was a group that did. The Easter Bunny, Santa, Bigfoot, an honest politician, a classy Maryland fan, a smart tar heel, and all of Kris Lang's good looking relatives.

I have nothing really to say about Tyler Thornton, I just wanted to point out that this was an outstanding post.

BlueDevilCorvette!
02-16-2011, 10:40 AM
All I hope for is that when a player gets on the court they give it their all. Whether it is for 30 seconds or 15 minutes, Tyler Thornton hustles his butt off. He embraces playing defense and epitomizes the foundation of Duke's basketball..."hustle & defense".

gumbomoop
02-16-2011, 10:59 AM
On K's weekly show [FSS/FSN, Sat morns, 9:30], this past Sat, K stated that Tyler is an unusually mature player. Implied, or I inferred, that Tyler is a leader in the making.

sagegrouse
02-16-2011, 11:11 AM
On K's weekly show [FSS/FSN, Sat morns, 9:30], this past Sat, K stated that Tyler is an unusually mature player. Implied, or I inferred, that Tyler is a leader in the making.

I think Tyler displayed his chops in the St. John's game, and I think he earned his starts that day. Admittedly, three points and five fouls in nine minutes is not much of a line. But one of the fouls was a technical, and Tyler looked like he was ready to fight the entire St. John's team. No one else showed the same grit and competitiveness.

Maybe that's what K means by "unusually mature."

sagegrouse

mkline09
02-16-2011, 11:29 AM
I agree with K saying Tyler is mature. He is a tough kid and I have to say that when he steps on the court I'm not expecting him to blow up but I feel confident because he generally gets it defensively and that is the end of the floor where most freshmen struggle.
But on the offensive end he has shown just enough aggressiveness to force teams to respect his drive and occassional shot. He doesn't always show it and doesn't really need to but just by making it a threat makes the opposing defense must keep their eyes on cause the scouting report shows he isn't always going to sit there.
Unlike a few other guys in recent memory who were complete liabilities on the offensive end as freshman and who the opposing team wouldn't have a guy within 15 feet of, Tyler just does enough to keep them honest. I like this kid and definitely see him a a leader on the court.

OldPhiKap
02-16-2011, 11:32 AM
I agree with K saying Tyler is mature. He is a tough kid and I have to say that when he steps on the court I'm not expecting him to blow up but I feel confident because he generally gets it defensively and that is the end of the floor where most freshmen struggle.
But on the offensive end he has shown just enough aggressiveness to force teams to respect his drive and occassional shot. He doesn't always show it and doesn't really need to but just by making it a threat makes the opposing defense must keep their eyes on cause the scouting report shows he isn't always going to sit there.
Unlike a few other guys in recent memory who were complete liabilities on the offensive end as freshman and who the opposing team wouldn't have a guy within 15 feet of, Tyler just does enough to keep them honest. I like this kid and definitely see him a a leader on the court.

I imagine he runs point on the blue team in practice, and whatever group of guys he is with at the time are all darn good underclassmen who will see more time over their careers. Not only is this kid a leader as far as I can tell, they're all going to grow together over time.

And, whether he starts or not, he will get his minutes this year and for the next three. He's got some game.

mkline09
02-16-2011, 11:40 AM
I imagine he runs point on the blue team in practice, and whatever group of guys he is with at the time are all darn good underclassmen who will see more time over their careers. Not only is this kid a leader as far as I can tell, they're all going to grow together over time.

And, whether he starts or not, he will get his minutes this year and for the next three. He's got some game.

A lot of comparsions have been made to Dockery but I see him being more like Wojo. Bulldog on defense and a sneaky offensive weapon.

gumbomoop
02-16-2011, 12:56 PM
One of Tyler's signal strengths is his ability to get around, by getting above, the screen at the top of the key. His defensive stance is so balanced, and he moves laterally so quickly, that he almost always gets to the high side of the pick, so no switch is necessary.

In fact, he does a whole bunch of little things. He's always alert on D, has active hands, knows where people are, is constantly looking for flicks and steals. He knows that oftentimes an opponent gets lazy, and is prepared to take advantage.

He won't impress anybody.

Who isn't paying attention.