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BlueintheFace
01-05-2011, 08:36 PM
I think it is time to start having this conversation.

Wouldn't give it to Nolan right now of course, but things are going to get interesting as the season progresses... especially as UConn starts to fade.


Walker, Sullinger, The Jimmer, and Nolan

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jimmer-fredette&p1=nolan-smith&p2=kemba-walker&p3=jared-sullinger

OldPhiKap
01-05-2011, 08:51 PM
I think it is time to start having this conversation.

Wouldn't give it to Nolan right now of course, but things are going to get interesting as the season progresses... especially as UConn starts to fade.


Walker, Sullinger, The Jimmer, and Nolan

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jimmer-fredette&p1=nolan-smith&p2=kemba-walker&p3=jared-sullinger

Too early for serious conversation, but Nolan has certainly put himself forth as a worthy candidate at this point.

rotogod00
01-05-2011, 08:53 PM
putting up 19/5/5, shooting 54% from the floor? sign me up

BlueintheFace
01-05-2011, 09:01 PM
I think it is reasonable to look forward to mostly 20-25 ppg avg from here on out.

He is also averaging 5.6 assists/game, has a significantly higher fg% and is a more efficient scorer than the other two guards.

du2007meb
01-05-2011, 09:12 PM
Once or twice during the game tonight I honestly thought I was watching a younger Kobe Bryant. How much should/could Nolan take over the game? I think there is a fine line between a great game and having to play like Kemba Walker. I know it doesn't really matter for this game because we were never really at risk of needing a sudden, balanced offense. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I really got that "Kobe" feeling. Feel free to offer more logical insights.

OldPhiKap
01-05-2011, 09:16 PM
Once or twice during the game tonight I honestly thought I was watching a younger Kobe Bryant. How much should/could Nolan take over the game? I think there is a fine line between a great game and having to play like Kemba Walker. I know it doesn't really matter for this game because we were never really at risk of needing a sudden, balanced offense. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I really got that "Kobe" feeling. Feel free to offer more logical insights.

If they're gonna keep giving him the lane, he should keep taking it.

Plenty of other players got shots -- they just didn't fall on a regular basis. I am sure that if Kyle started hitting, or Andre ripped off two or three in a row, they'd get a steady diet of passes from Nolan and the rest of the team.

davekay1971
01-05-2011, 09:16 PM
Once or twice during the game tonight I honestly thought I was watching a younger Kobe Bryant. How much should/could Nolan take over the game? I think there is a fine line between a great game and having to play like Kemba Walker. I know it doesn't really matter for this game because we were never really at risk of needing a sudden, balanced offense. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I really got that "Kobe" feeling. Feel free to offer more logical insights.

I'd be OK to see Nolan go Kobe some.

More to the point of your post, I trust Nolan to play within the team concept, look to score when that's what best serves the team, and look to distribute when someone else has the hot hand.

BlueintheFace
01-05-2011, 09:43 PM
Once or twice during the game tonight I honestly thought I was watching a younger Kobe Bryant. How much should/could Nolan take over the game? I think there is a fine line between a great game and having to play like Kemba Walker. I know it doesn't really matter for this game because we were never really at risk of needing a sudden, balanced offense. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I really got that "Kobe" feeling. Feel free to offer more logical insights.

I understand the concern, but Nolan has a good thing going over the last few games with the high screen going right. He has really learned how to attack it and probably 80% of the time he gets a shot he is comfortable and efficient with or gets a foul. So long as that option keeps presenting itself, he should keep taking it. His threes have been in the structure of the offense (OOB plays, defenders going under screens, kickouts, etc...). I'm pretty darn happy with his shot selection right now.

It'll get interesting once a smart coach (perhaps Gary this weekend) decides to trap Nolan on that hedge and force him to give it up. Will his production go down? Perhaps temporarily, but I think he knows his game and spots on the floor and I like most of the shots he takes even when he isn't barreling down the lane off that high screen.

Bob Green
01-05-2011, 09:54 PM
Plenty of other players got shots -- they just didn't fall on a regular basis. I am sure that if Kyle started hitting, or Andre ripped off two or three in a row, they'd get a steady diet of passes from Nolan and the rest of the team.

Andre Dawkins was 3-4 from the field including 2-3 on 3-pointers. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see him receive a few more passes each game.

mr. synellinden
01-05-2011, 10:01 PM
Andre Dawkins was 3-4 from the field including 2-3 on 3-pointers. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see him receive a few more passes each game.

Completely agree.

On the other hand, Kyle did get 18 shots.

Back to the main topic, during the Tennessee - Memphis game, Jimmy Dykes just said he thinks Nolan, Kyle and Sullinger are the three leading candidates for NPOY so far.

Billy Dat
01-05-2011, 10:16 PM
UAB Head Coach Mike Davis post game re Nolan

"He's excellent. And the thing I like about him is his endurance. You watch him, his stamina is just second to none. Because I mean I watched films on him and you guys can watch a game and you see a guy make eight points in a row and he's got to come out of the game. He'll make a couple of hard plays and he's tired. This guy is unbelievable from this standpoint. He plays the same way the whole night against Miami for 40 minutes. Forty minutes and you never could tell he was tired at all. He kept playing, and he just takes advantage of it. He's really, his basketball IQ is just off the charts. He's making shots, he's almost impossible to guard. What makes him so good is that he's just able to play at his level and it never drops. It like never drops. You'll never see him grab his shorts, well I haven't seen it, and I've watched a lot of games on him, and he's on the same level all the time. And most guys, now there's probably a lot of guys, even [Kyle] Singler is the same way. You'll never see those two guys fatigued.

loran16
01-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Pomeroy is having a Player of the year statistical race this year. Smith is currently in 7th and tops in the ACC:

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/the_kpoy_up_for_grabs/

BlueintheFace
01-05-2011, 10:55 PM
Pomeroy is having a Player of the year statistical race this year. Smith is currently in 7th and tops in the ACC:

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/the_kpoy_up_for_grabs/

That is a pretty cool resource, but the fact that Kemba Walker is at #8 shows that it is probably not a good predictive model for the award.

loran16
01-06-2011, 12:30 AM
That is a pretty cool resource, but the fact that Kemba Walker is at #8 shows that it is probably not a good predictive model for the award.

It's not meant to be predictive. It's meant to show the best player of the year. Of course, Sullinger up top is probably the consensus right now, anyhow.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/the_kpoy_a_history/ shows a history of how the award would've played out in previous years, and it's pretty good. (Interestingly, Shelden Williams would've beaten out JJ for the award in 05)

gep
01-06-2011, 12:53 AM
Once or twice during the game tonight I honestly thought I was watching a younger Kobe Bryant. How much should/could Nolan take over the game? I think there is a fine line between a great game and having to play like Kemba Walker.

...


If they're gonna keep giving him the lane, he should keep taking it.

...



In fact, in the 2nd half when Nolan took it right to the hoop with a dunk right through UAB, Len Elmore even made a comment something like "MJ-like", which he did qualify that you can't really compare anyone to MJ. But as posted above, if they give Nolan the lane, he should take it... and he does with authority:cool:

flyingdutchdevil
01-06-2011, 05:53 AM
What amazes me about Nolan is his IQ and his desire to get his teammates the ball. He is a proven scorer - he knows that, the coaches know that, and the opposing teams (especially UAB) definitely know that. However, that IQ and desire to get assists makes him nearly unstoppable. He is no longer just driving with his head down; he knows where teammates are.

Furthermore, how Nolan represents the school still amazes me. From recruiting (Cook and others) to PR (Duke Blue Planet, his post-game interviews) to showing freshman the ropes (Dawkins, Kyrie), I feel that he is the MVP of the team, performance withstanding. With his performance and current form, is Nolan real?

weezie
01-06-2011, 07:20 AM
That is a pretty cool resource, but the fact that Kemba Walker is at #8 shows that it is probably not a good predictive model for the award.


I was just thinking about mentioning Walker. If he can be loudly trumpeted by the media, granted, we can certainly have a discussion about Nolan. But, as always, be like K and be cool!
Go Nolan, GO!

weezie
01-06-2011, 07:23 AM
Len Elmore even made a comment something like "MJ-like", which he did qualify that you can't really compare anyone to MJ.


Luckily, many of Len's mumbled ramblings were drowned out last night. What was he muttering about Cameron and it's reputation, blah blah blah?

Len and Karl Hess, candidates for smackdowns with the gold-painted wiffle ball bat....

4decadedukie
01-06-2011, 07:35 AM
It is too early to seriously pre-select the NPOY, but Nolan's repeated performances certainly merit his consideration; further, his candidacy is based on important factors that go well beyond superb "numbers," including versatility, floor leadership, team synergy and basketball savvy.

PADukeMom
01-06-2011, 08:09 AM
Way too early for this Smith fan.

sagegrouse
01-06-2011, 08:28 AM
Luckily, many of Len's mumbled ramblings were drowned out last night. What was he muttering about Cameron and it's reputation, blah blah blah?

Len and Karl Hess, candidates for smackdowns with the gold-painted wiffle ball bat....

My main problem with Len is that he doesn't recognize that basketball is a game, where players and fans are supposed to be having fun. (Coaches? Not so much.) That's why I think Raftery is such a good analyst.

On the question of what it was like to play at Cameron, I thought initially the fault was Mike Patrick's, who threw Len a 100 MPH screwball because Duke was lousy during Len's time at Maryland (8-24 in the ACC), and Len couldn't exactly say, "This place was no problem then, because the team was so bad." Fact is, Len couldn't figure out what to say, so he just gave us 90 seconds of muttering.

Turns out that even that was wrong. I thought I heard him say that he was 3-0 playing at Cameron (freshman became eligible after his sophomore year). Fact is, Duke beat Maryland two out of his three years.

sagegrouse

Kedsy
01-06-2011, 09:38 AM
Turns out that even that was wrong. I thought I heard him say that he was 3-0 playing at Cameron (freshman became eligible after his sophomore year). Fact is, Duke beat Maryland two out of his three years.

I'm pretty sure he said something about two out of three. Although I thought he said he won two out of three. I'm almost certain he did not say he was 3-0.

J_C_Steel
01-06-2011, 09:55 AM
Nolan Smith has been an absolute assassin out there. His efficiency on offense and anticipation on defense have been otherworldly lately. I'm just hoping that Kyle finds his stroke sometime during ACC play. Otherwise, I think Duke will definitely drop a few road games.

Kedsy
01-06-2011, 10:01 AM
I'm just hoping that Kyle finds his stroke sometime during ACC play. Otherwise, I think Duke will definitely drop a few road games.

During the only period that one could argue the score mattered, Kyle shot wonderfully -- he hit four of his first five shots, including two long threes. He'll be fine.

J_C_Steel
01-06-2011, 10:03 AM
During the only period that one could argue the score mattered, Kyle shot wonderfully -- he hit four of his first five shots, including two long threes. He'll be fine.

Situationally, he's been great. But Duke's defense this year -- in my humble opinion -- isn't quite as good as it was last year. That means the team won't be able to slog through Kyle's offensive slumps without losing to decent ACC teams on the road (particularly if Kyle is taking between 15 and 20 shots).

Kedsy
01-06-2011, 10:08 AM
Situationally, he's been great. But Duke's defense this year -- in my humble opinion -- isn't quite as good as it was last year. That means the team won't be able to slog through Kyle's offensive slumps without losing to decent ACC teams on the road (particularly if Kyle is taking between 15 and 20 shots).

My theory is that the game is so "slow" for him right now that he loses concentration when he's not sufficiently challenged (like last night after the team got up 26-4), and that's why he sometimes goes into mid-game shooting slumps. If I'm right (and of course I have no idea if I am) then we won't see the slumps nearly as much in tight games.

J_C_Steel
01-06-2011, 10:10 AM
My theory is that the game is so "slow" for him right now that he loses concentration when he's not sufficiently challenged (like last night after the team got up 26-4), and that's why he sometimes goes into mid-game shooting slumps. If I'm right (and of course I have no idea if I am) then we won't see the slumps nearly as much in tight games.

I will hope that you are 100% right.

:cool:

Billy Dat
01-06-2011, 10:15 AM
My theory is that the game is so "slow" for him right now that he loses concentration when he's not sufficiently challenged (like last night after the team got up 26-4), and that's why he sometimes goes into mid-game shooting slumps. If I'm right (and of course I have no idea if I am) then we won't see the slumps nearly as much in tight games.

This could be part of the story. Bottom line, any player is going to go through slumps. I think, with Kyle, the coaching staff is likely pushing him to aggressively look for his shot. For the team to have offensive balance, which will force opposing defenses to work harder, both Kyle and Nolan need to get shots up. Even if Kyle takes an awkward fall-away shot or two from the baseline, it forces the opposing defense to react differently, which might open up different offensive rebounding angles for our other bigs, etc. I think some of what appears to be sketchy shot selection, and the resulting poor shooting %, can be traced to the coaches pushing him hard to keep looking for his shot.

wilson
01-06-2011, 10:16 AM
If they're gonna keep giving him the lane, he should keep taking it.

Plenty of other players got shots -- they just didn't fall on a regular basis. I am sure that if Kyle started hitting, or Andre ripped off two or three in a row, they'd get a steady diet of passes from Nolan and the rest of the team.Agreed. Also, Kyle took plenty of shots in the second half, 11 I think, while shooting a relatively poor percentage. If anyone should have taken fewer shots last night, it was him, not Smitty.
I recognize that it was but one cold game for Kyle, and that K has always preached for players to keep attacking and expect that the percentages will come around (which they generally do). I am not worried about Kyle at all. The main point of my post, I guess, is that while there are legitimate concerns with regard to the team's overall potential, Nolan (and Kyle) do not, to me, qualify as such.

superdave
01-06-2011, 10:55 AM
Agreed. Also, Kyle took plenty of shots in the second half, 11 I think, while shooting a relatively poor percentage. If anyone should have taken fewer shots last night, it was him, not Smitty.
I recognize that it was but one cold game for Kyle, and that K has always preached for players to keep attacking and expect that the percentages will come around (which they generally do). I am not worried about Kyle at all. The main point of my post, I guess, is that while there are legitimate concerns with regard to the team's overall potential, Nolan (and Kyle) do not, to me, qualify as such.

I think a great rule of thumb is when your shots are not falling (ie 3 or 4 misses in a row) you should attack the basket and get to the foul line. But contested jumpers are not the best option. We have too many offensive weapons to be shooting those.

Channing
01-06-2011, 10:58 AM
Agreed. Also, Kyle took plenty of shots in the second half, 11 I think, while shooting a relatively poor percentage. If anyone should have taken fewer shots last night, it was him, not Smitty.
I recognize that it was but one cold game for Kyle, and that K has always preached for players to keep attacking and expect that the percentages will come around (which they generally do). I am not worried about Kyle at all. The main point of my post, I guess, is that while there are legitimate concerns with regard to the team's overall potential, Nolan (and Kyle) do not, to me, qualify as such.


I think a great rule of thumb is when your shots are not falling (ie 3 or 4 misses in a row) you should attack the basket and get to the foul line. But contested jumpers are not the best option. We have too many offensive weapons to be shooting those.

I mentioned in the post game thread it seemed like Kyle lost his groove a little when he started trying to post up the smaller defender. On several occasions he left baby hooks and other post moves short - almost like he didn't know where he was on the court. In the first half, when he was playing his usual role, he was firing on all cylinders. Since Kyle doesn't play with his back to the basket very often, I am not too concerned with last night.

superdave
01-06-2011, 12:27 PM
I mentioned in the post game thread it seemed like Kyle lost his groove a little when he started trying to post up the smaller defender. On several occasions he left baby hooks and other post moves short - almost like he didn't know where he was on the court. In the first half, when he was playing his usual role, he was firing on all cylinders. Since Kyle doesn't play with his back to the basket very often, I am not too concerned with last night.

He scored with a flash to the block against Miami - got the ball up very quickly. But last night he was not as quick and the defender was ready and help came.

I'm sure we'll see that quick post up move more often and it could be a go to for us in the post season.

Troublemaker
01-06-2011, 12:57 PM
I think Sullinger is the favorite. I think Walker will fall out of the race as the season progresses because his efficiency will gradually decline from carrying such a heavy load for UConn, and I think NPOY will go to the best player on a 1 seed team. OSU, Kansas, and Duke project to having strong 1-seed type seasons, and once football season is over, there will be continual media focus on those three teams and debates as to which team is the best. Therefore, I would expect that NPOY will go to a player from one of those three teams.

Again, I think Sullinger is the favorite, but I would LOVE to see Nolan win because I want to see his jersey retired. The '91/'92 titles teams got three jerseys retired. The '01 title team got two jerseys retired.

I think it would feel "right" if the '10 title team got at least two jerseys retired as well. Unless there's a huge surprise, I don't think Scheyer is happening. But I would love to see Smith join Singler in the rafters.

Duvall
01-06-2011, 01:03 PM
I think it would feel "right" if the '10 title team got at least two jerseys retired as well. Unless there's a huge surprise, I don't think Scheyer is happening. But I would love to see Smith join Singler in the rafters.

Plus, it would almost certainly bring Jumbo out of hiatus.

CDu
01-06-2011, 01:11 PM
I think Sullinger is the favorite. I think Walker will fall out of the race as the season progresses because his efficiency will gradually decline from carrying such a heavy load for UConn, and I think NPOY will go to the best player on a 1 seed team. OSU, Kansas, and Duke project to having strong 1-seed type seasons, and once football season is over, there will be continual media focus on those three teams and debates as to which team is the best. Therefore, I would expect that NPOY will go to a player from one of those three teams.

Again, I think Sullinger is the favorite, but I would LOVE to see Nolan win because I want to see his jersey retired. The '91/'92 titles teams got three jerseys retired. The '01 title team got two jerseys retired.

I think it would feel "right" if the '10 title team got at least two jerseys retired as well. Unless there's a huge surprise, I don't think Scheyer is happening. But I would love to see Smith join Singler in the rafters.

I agree pretty much across the board here. I think that Sullinger is probably the favorite right now. It's definitely too early to say, though. Remember - at this time last year, John Wall was considered among the favorites (and Scheyer was definitely in the discussion) before Evan Turner eventually took over. So a number of guys (including but not limited to Smith) could overtake Sullinger. This is especially true if Ohio State cools off a bit in conference play. And if Smith keeps putting up cartoon numbers, he may pass Sullinger either way.

Wander
01-06-2011, 01:20 PM
This is tangential, but if Irving were to come back healthy and in shape, it's interesting to think about where Duke's backcourt could rank in recent college basketball history. That would be two NPOY contending guys in one backcourt, and arguably simply the top point guard and top shooting guard. Plus two backups that would each start on most (every?) other team in the country.

Other recent really good ones: 2002 Duke, 2005 Illinois, 2006 Villanova, 2007 UCLA, 2008 Memphis, 2009 UNC.

SoCalDukeFan
01-06-2011, 05:22 PM
ESPN showed her at the game yesterday. Does anyone know if she comes often.


Nolan was absolutely brilliant yesterday. I wondered if maybe he wanted to show her what he could do.

SoCal

Newton_14
01-06-2011, 09:41 PM
ESPN showed her at the game yesterday. Does anyone know if she comes often.


Nolan was absolutely brilliant yesterday. I wondered if maybe he wanted to show her what he could do.

SoCal

She is at every home game sitting in the same seat. Not sure on the road games but I imagine she catches most of them.

loran16
01-07-2011, 11:53 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/luke_winn/01/06/power.rankings/index.html

Check out Luke Winn's points on Nolan's performance in his power rankings this week (FTR, if you guys aren't reading these things, they're beyond awesome).

JasonEvans
01-07-2011, 03:17 PM
Nolan poll skew!!!!!

Yahoo asking (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Who-s-college-basketball-s-midseason-player-of-t?urn=ncaab-304796#remaining-content) who the mid-season POY is.

-Jason "you know what to do!" Evans