WBB: Stanford 71, UCONN 59 (win streak endds at 90!)

[sagegrouse]

Now 17-4, Stanford with 13:29 in the 1st half. ESPN2.

sagegrouse

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's a good thing the Huskies got their record. Stanford at home is a tough win.

[strawbs]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=5969758&sportCat=ncb

anyone else read this article? It's about whether the uconn women's team could beat a division 1 mens team (centenary in this example).
Personally the article made me mad and in my opinion the idea is disrespectful to the centenary mens team.
Do not get me wrong; what the uconn women have accomplished is very impressive and they should be given praise for their accomplishments, but the idea that they could beat a mens college basketball team is ridiculous.

[Devilsfan]

Did Gino forget to "tip" the refs?

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=5969758&sportCat=ncb

anyone else read this article? It's about whether the uconn women's team could beat a division 1 mens team (centenary in this example).
Personally the article made me mad and in my opinion the idea is disrespectful to the centenary mens team.
Do not get me wrong; what the uconn women have accomplished is very impressive and they should be given praise for their accomplishments, but the idea that they could beat a mens college basketball team is ridiculous.
I doubt they could beat a good high school men's team. The gender gap and the way the games are played (because of phsyical restrictions) make them worlds apart. This is in by no means disrespecting the women, it's just physical. If they made the men play with 10 pound weights on their ankles, and outlawed dunking...then it might at least be a close game.

[strawbs]

I doubt they could beat a good high school men's team. The gender gap and the way the games are played (because of phsyical restrictions) make them worlds apart. This is in by no means disrespecting the women, it's just physical. If they made the men play with 10 pound weights on their ankles, and outlawed dunking...then it might at least be a close game.

exactly. High school teams such as oak hill and mater dei would wipe the floor with them, so to say a division 1 school (albeit one that is transitioning to division 3) could conceivably be beaten by them is ridiculous. A college mens basketball team at any level would just be far too athletic for uconn to stay with.

[CameronBornAndBred]

34-30 Stanford lead at the half. I'm pulling for UCONN...I want us to be the ones that knock them off. :D

[gam7]

34-30 Stanford lead at the half. I'm pulling for UCONN...I want us to be the ones that knock them off. :D

Yeah, but it would be nice to know tonight how long our mens' current win streak will need to be in order to set the overall college basketball winning streak record. :)

Imagine - if (a) Stanford beats UConn tonight, ending their streak at 90 and (b) our mens' team, as some have speculated already, are able to run the table through the regular and postseasons this year (giving us an overall win streak of 50), we very likely would be in a position to set the overall streak win streak record in the 2012 Final Four or national championship game. Incentive for Kyrie to stay? :)

[diveonthefloor]

Condi Rice in the house?

Stanford with nice lead and 2 minutes left.

[SuperTurkey]

Yeah, but it would be nice to know tonight how long our mens' current win streak will need to be in order to set the overall college basketball winning streak record. :)

Imagine - if (a) Stanford beats UConn tonight, ending their streak at 90 and (b) our mens' team, as some have speculated already, are able to run the table through the regular and postseasons this year (giving us an overall win streak of 50), we very likely would be in a position to set the overall streak win streak record in the 2012 Final Four or national championship game. Incentive for Kyrie to stay? :)

I like the way you think, but I'm interested to know if you have a prescription for your medication. :D

[UrinalCake]

I'm intrigued by the idea of the worst division I men's team playing the UCONN women. However, that game could never happen because the women play by different rules

- the ball is smaller
- there is no ten-second backcourt rule
- the three-point line is closer
- there is no double bonus

And probably some others that I'm unaware of. I suppose you could concoct some scenario to get around all but the smaller ball issue. Also, what refs would you use? The manner in which the game is officiated would have a huge impact on the outcome. And by that I mean it would affect the margin of victory for the men.

Looks like Stanford is going to win it. Congrats to them and props to UCONN for their streak.

[diveonthefloor]

Nice run by UConn.

Stanford women are really good.

Can't believe Stanford students didn't rush the court.
This could be a preview of the Finals.

[JBDuke]

The streak ends at 90.

[sagegrouse]

Stanford wins! 71-59. UConn was in range, but in the last four minutes the Huskies couldn't hit the Pacific Ocean from the beach at Half Moon Bay.

sagegrouse

[diveonthefloor]

Fantastic job ESPN....ignore Stanford and put a mic in Gino's face immediately....
total crap.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Congrats to both teams, one for the win, the other for the streak. It's going to be a long time before we see that matched.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Fantastic job ESPN....ignore Stanford and put a mic in Gino's face immediately....
total crap.
I was ok with that...they let the winners be the headliner.

[Duvall]

Fantastic job ESPN....ignore Stanford and put a mic in Gino's face immediately....
total crap.

That was weird. I don't think I've ever seen that before. Then again, it's isn't everyday that Bristol's favorite team takes a historic loss.

[sagegrouse]

I'm intrigued by the idea of the worst division I men's team playing the UCONN women. However, that game could never happen because the women play by different rules

- the ball is smaller
- there is no ten-second backcourt rule
- the three-point line is closer
- there is no double bonus

And probably some others that I'm unaware of. I suppose you could concoct some scenario to get around all but the smaller ball issue. Also, what refs would you use? The manner in which the game is officiated would have a huge impact on the outcome. And by that I mean it would affect the margin of victory for the men.

Looks like Stanford is going to win it. Congrats to them and props to UCONN for their streak.

Most women's teams (all, maybe) practice against men IM players. There must be a million stories behind closed doors about matchups of men vs. women.

I don't care about women playing men's teams -- it is a separate sport.

sagegrouse

[gam7]

I like the way you think, but I'm interested to know if you have a prescription for your medication. :D

I absolutely deserved that! Unfortunately, there is no known cure for Duke fever. Hey-oh!

[DevilHorns]

I called it several weeks ago:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?23527-Upset-of-the-Year-So-Far&p=458118#post458118

:cool:

[CameronBornAndBred]

I called it several weeks ago:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?23527-Upset-of-the-Year-So-Far&p=458118#post458118

:cool:
That was a week and a half ago. Still good call, though! :rolleyes:

[diveonthefloor]

I was ok with that...they let the winners be the headliner.

But they ignored Stanford for about 5 minutes....and Stanford won!!!

I guess I understand why they went immediately to Gino, but think bout what would've happened...say...if right after the buzzer of the Duke UNLV game in 1991, the broadcast immediately went to a mic shoved into Tark's face, and completely ignored Duke.

I dunno, maybe I'm being stupid, but I thought this was weird.

[strawbs]

Nice run by UConn.

Stanford women are really good.

Can't believe Stanford students didn't rush the court.
This could be a preview of the Finals.

i was surprised they didnt rush the court as well. it's not every day you win a game to snap the longest winning streak in college basketball history. Being on winter break probably didnt help, im guessing alumni and adult fans are far less likely to storm the court that college kids ;)

[JasonEvans]

Just so we are clear about the absurdity of the notion that the UConn women could play with any men's team, UConn has one player 6-5 and two who are 6-3. The rest of the roster is 6-1, 6-0 or shorter. The woeful, 0-15 Centenary Gentlemen (yup, that is their team name) would tower over them with 8 players 6-5 or taller.

Folks are throwing out the names of big high school programs like Mater Dei and Oak Hill. They would crush UConn. I am talking a "name the margin" 40+ point win. They are simply too big, too fast, and too athletic for UConn to handle. It would be a joke. Heck, I think most big city public school high school teams, not just the elite programs, would likely handle UConn. Lets face it, if you have a guy or two on your team who can dunk, you are likely playing at an altitude that UConn cannot reach.

This is not to take anything away from the fabulous UConn women. They are an amazing standard for their game and worthy of all the praise heaped upon them. But, there is no comparison to the men's game. Basketball is a game of athleticism -- much moreso than golf or tennis (two sports in which I think elite women can compete a tony bit with not-quite-elite men).

Heck, look at the world class women's sprinters, long jumpers, and other athletes. Shelley-Ann Frazier, who won the Beijing Olympic's Gold Medal in the 100m dash with a time of 10.78, would not have come close to qualifying for the men's 100m final in the most recent ACC track meet. The slowest time in the ACC men's final earlier this year was 10.60 seconds... almost 2-tenths faster than the women's gold medalist.

--Jason "you could play with the women's ball and women's rules and a decent high school men's team would still win easily" Evans

[strawbs]

Most women's teams (all, maybe) practice against men IM players. There must be a million stories behind closed doors about matchups of men vs. women.

I don't care about women playing men's teams -- it is a separate sport.

sagegrouse

womens teams practicing against guys has become common practice for most schools. i remember seeing a story on espn about this a few years back about how the tennessee women practice against random guys from campus who want to be "practice players". I don't know how other schools do it but i remember them saying how pat summit puts in different rules for the guys such as no dunking (obvious), no blocking shots, limited physical contact, and making them settle for short jumpers instead of driving all the way for layups.

[Spy]

I would like to point out that the Duke men now own the longest win streak in college b-ball with 22! :D

[hurley1]

Uconn depends too much on one player this year, Moore. Moore had a bad night against a good team and they lost. They may lose more before the season ends. Stanford whipped them from start to finish. Carried them to the woodshed.

[Jim3k]

Fantastic job ESPN....ignore Stanford and put a mic in Gino's face immediately....
total crap.

I agree -- except that if Geno had to wait around for Tara to be interviewed, he'd have disappeared into the locker room and there would have been no Geno interview at all. I think ESPN was aware of that, so did the rude thing instead of having only one coach to interview.

[Reisen]

Uconn depends too much on one player this year, Moore. Moore had a bad night against a good team and they lost. They may lose more before the season ends. Stanford whipped them from start to finish. Carried them to the woodshed.

Must be something in the water up there. Kemba Walker with 30+ while missing 17 shots in their loss the other night (with no one else on the team in double figures)...

[burnspbesq]

Former players from both schools were in the stands: Jayne Appel, Candice Wiggins, Rosalyn Gold-Onwude and JJ Hones of Stanford sitting together on one baseline, and ex-UConn stars Alana Beard and Tina Charles

Say what, now?

[hurley1]

Must be something in the water up there. Kemba Walker with 30+ while missing 17 shots in their loss the other night (with no one else on the team in double figures)...

It's a recipe for defeat. I expect them to lose in the tournament, but, time will tell.

[DukeGirl4ever]

I'm intrigued by the idea of the worst division I men's team playing the UCONN women. However, that game could never happen because the women play by different rules

- there is no double bonus




Really??? This is news to me and I played women's college ball.
I think maybe you are off on this one (or maybe my 3 year old is getting in the way of me paying attention to the 20 plus women's games I've watched this year....) :)

While I agree with others out there that UCONN women would get hammered by any men's team out there, I would say that if the women were presented the opportunity, I'm sure they wouldn't turn it down. Rules would NOT be an issue. If the girls want to play with the big boys, I'm sure they'd want to play with the men's rules. When I wanted to get better, I played in every MEN's summer league game or pick up game I could using the men's rules and the only minor difference was getting used to the ball size.

All of this is hypothetical, of course, but if it were to happen, the "rules" would be a non-factor.

[Duvall]

I agree -- except that if Geno had to wait around for Tara to be interviewed, he'd have disappeared into the locker room and there would have been no Geno interview at all. I think ESPN was aware of that, so did the rude thing instead of having only one coach to interview.

I dunno. Geno might run through a locker room wall to get to an available TV camera. Doubt he would pass up the opportunity for a bit more airtime.

[msdukie]

Really??? This is news to me and I played women's college ball.
I think maybe you are off on this one (or maybe my 3 year old is getting in the way of me paying attention to the 20 plus women's games I've watched this year....) :)

While I agree with others out there that UCONN women would get hammered by any men's team out there, I would say that if the women were presented the opportunity, I'm sure they wouldn't turn it down. Rules would NOT be an issue. If the girls want to play with the big boys, I'm sure they'd want to play with the men's rules. When I wanted to get better, I played in every MEN's summer league game or pick up game I could using the men's rules and the only minor difference was getting used to the ball size.

All of this is hypothetical, of course, but if it were to happen, the "rules" would be a non-factor.

I don't know, I saw that weird "double bonus" thinga-magigy during Duke-Temple tonight...

Ok, so if there is a debate over whether the UConn women would beat the worst team in Division I, is there really a debate over whether they would beat Weak Forest?

[DukeGirl4ever]

I don't know, I saw that weird "double bonus" thinga-magigy during Duke-Temple tonight...

Ok, so if there is a debate over whether the UConn women would beat the worst team in Division I, is there really a debate over whether they would beat Weak Forest?

I just looked at the NCAA rule book (don't like how it's set up - should have a separate rule book for men's and one for women's) and it did not differentiate between the double bonus for men and women, so I am assuming that the women still have the double bonus...either that or my brain is going out the window (which is VERY likely these days).

[DU82]

I just looked at the NCAA rule book (don't like how it's set up - should have a separate rule book for men's and one for women's) and it did not differentiate between the double bonus for men and women, so I am assuming that the women still have the double bonus...either that or my brain is going out the window (which is VERY likely these days).

If there wasn't a double bonus rule for women, we'd have lost against Xavier last week as Jasmine missed the first of a two shot non-shooting foul.

[Indoor66]

I like the way you think, but I'm interested to know if you have a prescription for your medication. :D

I am more interested in finding out if I can get the same perscription. :cool:

[DukeGirl4ever]

If there wasn't a double bonus rule for women, we'd have lost against Xavier last week as Jasmine missed the first of a two shot non-shooting foul.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy! I had never heard that women's ball did NOT have the double bonus (until someone posted that as a rule difference) and given that I played the game since I was 7, that really threw me off.

I checked the rules to see if it changed this year just to see if this was a new rule change. :cool:

[dukefanSD]

When I was in high school our women's team was going to the state tournament and needed some good practice and scrimmaged the boy's jv team and did in fact beat them. It should be noted that my home town had a weird thing going on and our girl's team was taller than the boys, and the boys really stunk. I think they won one game that year. About half the guys did not show up the next day for school. I don't think they could have beat guys from another school though. It was just a freak thing.

[UrinalCake]

Huh, I could swear I remember attending a women's game a few years ago and they never went into the double bonus. The scoreboard stopped incrementing after seven fouls and they just shot one-and-ones the rest of the way. I asked the guy sitting next to me about it and he said the rule was different for the women. Anyways, I am clearly wrong about this so scratch that item off my list. I still stand by my original point which is that a head-to-head matchup between a men's team and a women's team would be logistically impossible due to rule differences, most notably the different ball. I wouldn't really be fair to ask the women to play with a men's ball, and vice versa.


Basketball is a game of athleticism -- much moreso than golf or tennis (two sports in which I think elite women can compete a tony bit with not-quite-elite men).

I disagree with regards to tennis. I once heard Mary Carillo (a well-respected tennis commentator and former player) discuss this issue and the way she described it was this: the women's game does not depend so much on physicality, so some of the top players can be 16 and 17 year old kids. Even junior-level girls could sort of not be embarrased playing against the top professionals. But in the men's game that's not true. A top junior-level player would get destroyed by the top professionals because he hasn't developed the physical strength that is required. So if a 15 year-old boy has no chance against, say, Roger Federer, then a 15 year-old girl really has no chance. And a professional women's player isn't that far off from a 15 year-old girl in terms of how much she relies on physical strength.

She explained it a lot better than I just did, but the point was that while you could argue that the women are equally as skilled as the men, the difference in size, strength, and athleticism is simply too much to overcome. She went on to suggest that a top college men's player could beat Venus Williiams handily. I think the same probably holds true for basketball.

[JMarley50]

When I was in high school our women's team was going to the state tournament and needed some good practice and scrimmaged the boy's jv team and did in fact beat them. It should be noted that my home town had a weird thing going on and our girl's team was taller than the boys, and the boys really stunk. I think they won one game that year. About half the guys did not show up the next day for school. I don't think they could have beat guys from another school though. It was just a freak thing.

When I was in high school we had a little scrimmage against the girls one day. It was a little strange for me, especially since I played in the post and I am 6'8". I actually had girls trying to post up, it was weird. There was just a lot of awkward contact for one, and then I was like do I let them get position? Do I let them get the shot off? How hard do I box out? At the same time you know they are competitors trying to get better and will be pissed if you take it easy. Several of those girls did move on to the next level and one in fact is still playing in the WNBA and overseas. But regardless there is definitely a difference and I agree with the sentiment that there are probably a large number of high school boys teams that could beat UConn women. No offense to them, its just different.

[sagegrouse]

I disagree with regards to tennis. I once heard Mary Carillo (a well-respected tennis commentator and former player) discuss this issue and the way she described it was this: the women's game does not depend so much on physicality, so some of the top players can be 16 and 17 year old kids. Even junior-level girls could sort of not be embarrased playing against the top professionals. But in the men's game that's not true. A top junior-level player would get destroyed by the top professionals because he hasn't developed the physical strength that is required. So if a 15 year-old boy has no chance against, say, Roger Federer, then a 15 year-old girl really has no chance. And a professional women's player isn't that far off from a 15 year-old girl in terms of how much she relies on physical strength.



Look, we don't need any experiments to show that males are bigger and stronger than females, on average and at the extreme end of the distribution. That said, I would like to see an exhibition match between Serena Williams and a mid-level men's tour player. Serena is the best and the strongest women's player ever, IMHO, where the H is characteristically silent. Also, the hard-serving Venus (record of 130 mph, so I read) could be an interesting match against some men. I don;t think they'd win, but the exhibition could be fun to watch.

Before the Salt Lake City Olympics, the U.S. women's hockey team trained in Steamboat. During its stay here it won an exhibition match against the local high school team, but only in OT. I suspect the girls were playing around a bit, but it shows that high school guys can play with some of the best women players in the world. The US women won bronze in the Olympics.

sagegrouse

[msdukie]

At some point in the late 1990s, the double bonus was instituted. I clearly remember when I was at Duke (class of 1997) there was no double bonus, but that it was instituted sometime right around my graduation.

The only substantial rules differences are:

1. No 10 seconds to cross the timeline.
2. 30 second shotclock
3. Women still use old men's 3-pt line (which they are considering moving back to the new men's line).
4. Smaller ball

[hurley1]

My son was a great point guard in high school. We unfortunately lost him in an auto accident when he was 17 ( he was running an errand for me when he had the accident ). He worked with several girls making their game better, and it was pretty incredible how much they improved over time. They never got to the point that they could really compete with him one on one, but, it was much more interesting at the end than at the beginning. Three of these girls went on to play college ball and they were all very aggressive ball players. Jordan never took it easy on them and got pretty physical with them from time to time but you could see their game change because of it. In the end, these girls were tough cookies that were very aggressive on the court. It was fun to watch and very rewarding for him.

[Indoor66]

At some point in the late 1990s, the double bonus was instituted. I clearly remember when I was at Duke (class of 1997) there was no double bonus, but that it was instituted sometime right around my graduation.

The only substantial rules differences are:

1. No 10 seconds to cross the timeline.
2. 30 second shotclock
3. Women still use old men's 3-pt line (which they are considering moving back to the new men's line).
4. Smaller ball

I and some others around here resemble that remark. :mad:

[-jk]

A couple other differences for the women's game:

The anti-Wojo rule:

5) You can only closely guard a player that is holding the ball and not dribbling, and must be within 3 feet (not 6). A closely guarded violation can occur anywhere on the court (not just the front court).

Two somewhat related rules that discourage drives to the basket:

6) A shot doesn't count when there's a player control foul in the act of shooting, and

7) The secondary defender exclusion area beneath the basket is only in the men's game.

There are a lot of differences in how technical fouls are handled and some other rules - lining up on the free throw lane, inbounding, etc., but they don't really change the fan's view.

-jk

[BD80]

... Serena is the best and the strongest women's player ever, IMHO, where the H is characteristically silent. Also, the hard-serving Venus (record of 130 mph, so I read) could be an interesting match against some men. I don;t think they'd win, but the exhibition could be fun to watch. ...

sagegrouse

It wouldn't be close at all. It would be tremendously entertaining to watch. Either sister would pull up lame after 3 games or so to avoid further embarrassment.





Women still use old men's 3-pt line

I and some others around here resemble that remark. :mad:

That's the "take back" line in half court games because us "old men" don't play full court?

I'm OK with that.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

My son was a great point guard in high school. We unfortunately lost him in an auto accident when he was 17 ( he was running an errand for me when he had the accident ). He worked with several girls making their game better, and it was pretty incredible how much they improved over time. They never got to the point that they could really compete with him one on one, but, it was much more interesting at the end than at the beginning. Three of these girls went on to play college ball and they were all very aggressive ball players. Jordan never took it easy on them and got pretty physical with them from time to time but you could see their game change because of it. In the end, these girls were tough cookies that were very aggressive on the court. It was fun to watch and very rewarding for him.

What a wonderful memory to have of your son. He must have been a super kid.
Love, Ima

[strawbs]

Look, we don't need any experiments to show that males are bigger and stronger than females, on average and at the extreme end of the distribution. That said, I would like to see an exhibition match between Serena Williams and a mid-level men's tour player. Serena is the best and the strongest women's player ever, IMHO, where the H is characteristically silent. Also, the hard-serving Venus (record of 130 mph, so I read) could be an interesting match against some men. I don;t think they'd win, but the exhibition could be fun to watch.

Before the Salt Lake City Olympics, the U.S. women's hockey team trained in Steamboat. During its stay here it won an exhibition match against the local high school team, but only in OT. I suspect the girls were playing around a bit, but it shows that high school guys can play with some of the best women players in the world. The US women won bronze in the Olympics.

sagegrouse

The williams sisters have played exhibition matches against men. We've been having the men vs women sports debate on TDD the last 2 days as well and a kind soul was nice enough to link to this interesting book: Andy Roddick Beat Me With a Frying Pan (http://books.google.com/books?id=teKmzL7t-2IC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=andy+roddick+beat+me+with+a+frying+pan+google+b ooks&source=bl&ots=VxsyaJIcA1&sig=dBEp-vEujDO7BCZIX-V03UgxlhE&hl=en&ei=wdscTbadOovCnAfc4IXSDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=brandi&f=false) The williams sisters both got destroyed by an average mens pro. (the story starts on page 111 but the men/women debate starts on page 104)
As far as your hockey example, The 2006 us womens olympic team lost to a high school boys team (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=2281644) in a tune up game. The most interesting thing i took from the article was that no checking was allowed. The US team went on to win bronze.

That "andy roddick" book i linked to is really interesting and i recommend everyone to look through the excerpts. It uses many examples of men competing against women in different sports. It seems that in sports that require more athleticism women can't compete with men and more often then not lose to high school aged boys teams. What didn't make sense to me is that they still don't have a great deal of success against men at the professional level in sports requiring little to know athletic ability such as darts and billiards.

I don't mean to come off as sexist in this argument. There are many great female teams and individual athletes. One in particular is Kelly kulick who won the professional bowlers association Tournament of Champions last year against a field of men. When things like that happen the competitors should be praised. However when it comes to sports that require more athletic ability it is silly to say that women could challenge men. The athletic gap is too great, and we should treat mens and womens accomplishments as completely different things. Thats why it really bothers me that the media is shoving it down our throats that uconn's womens team has broken ucla's winning streak record. They are completely different sports and should be treated as completely different achievements. (for anyone who made it through all of my rambling, sorry for the length of the post)