PDA

View Full Version : Mason Plumlee lack of minutes



Chris Randolph
12-26-2010, 06:46 PM
On the year Mason is averaging only 24 minutes per game. Obviously it is early and we've had some blowout wins but of late he has played less and less (St. Louis-11min, Elon-16min). Any thoughts/concerns/opinions on this? Without Kyrie I think Mason becomes the X-factor if this team is going to make another run at a national championship. Therefore I want him to get more time/experience before the games get bigger.

Happy Holidays!

uh_no
12-26-2010, 07:22 PM
only 24 minutes per game.

ONLY?????

i'd say 24 minutes is pretty darned good for a guy of his size on a team that plays at the speed we do

his minutes going down likely have to do with kyrie being out....its been gone over in other threads how kyrie's absence has been a detriment to mason, and we'd be silly to think K wouldn't decrease his minutes if he weren't playing as well in the post-kyrie era

superdave
12-26-2010, 08:12 PM
On the year Mason is averaging only 24 minutes per game. Obviously it is early and we've had some blowout wins but of late he has played less and less (St. Louis-11min, Elon-16min). Any thoughts/concerns/opinions on this? Without Kyrie I think Mason becomes the X-factor if this team is going to make another run at a national championship. Therefore I want him to get more time/experience before the games get bigger.

Happy Holidays!

Nope. I'm not worried.

Half this board has pointed out that Mason and Miles will get as many minutes as they can handle this year. When his playing time suggests more minutes, I think he'll be rewarded. Besides, I'd rather have depth at the 4/5 than not have depth.

Remember Marquette when he put up 25 and 12 in 32 minutes? He earned that 32 minutes and will again soon enough.

dukeimac
12-26-2010, 08:14 PM
Well, I ask what this it telling you?

What I see is the Mason is better suited for the up tempo game that Kyrie runs and Miles is better suited for the slow down game Nolan is running.

Just because a guy is a stud does not mean they will be a stud no matter what the style of game being played.

Just a Zo was NOT suited for an up tempo game, thus they slowed things down and he excelled, I see the same situation in Miles and Mason, certain styles fit them best.

moonpie23
12-26-2010, 08:20 PM
he owns the mason plumlee dome in chapel hill......

i wanna see him get the minutes that fit the game plan...

juise
12-26-2010, 08:49 PM
Maybe Mason's minutes were down over the last few games because he was concentrating on destroying his finals (http://twitter.com/dukeblueplanet/status/17674158842322945).

delfrio
12-26-2010, 11:30 PM
I have to say I am a bit worried, but not really because of his minutes. It's more because of his regression in recent games. This has been talked about with regards to Kyrie's influence, but it's definitely a real issue. Mason has the ability to be great, but I worry he's not progressing enough to earn those minutes. The main issues seem to be shot selection (fade aways and predictable back-to-the-basket moves instead of strong, quick moves) and fouls. I don't know that in-game minutes will automatically fix those. Not sure what will other than lots of practice and coaching.

DukieInBrasil
12-27-2010, 05:09 AM
The main issues seem to be shot selection (fade aways and predictable back-to-the-basket moves instead of strong, quick moves) and fouls.
I have watched all but the Elon games (only on TV) and in the other 2 games w/o Kyrie I'd have to say that Mason's shot selection was pretty bad. He's putting up good rebs/min and is not fouling particularly much, so I'd have to say that his PT situation is related to a) his shot selection but also b) the structure of the O now is not geared towards the shots that Mason can really excel at.
I remember Antwan Jamison and how he just tore Duke apart on a couple of occasions due to his quick moves, no hesitation just went strait to the rim. There was one game where Jamison scored like 30 pts and had the ball in his hands on O for a total throughout the game of like 40 seconds. Mason could learn a lot from watching that game tape cuz, shooting-wise, his game and athletic abilities are not dis-similar from Jamison's when he was at UNC.

hq2
12-27-2010, 08:51 AM
Ryan is getting better too, and taking some of his minutes. Offensively, at least, in the current set up, Ryan appears to be the better player. His D has picked up too. Mason doesn't seem to have found a clear cut role in the new offense.

Bluedevil114
12-27-2010, 09:08 AM
I think what is scary is that we had 40 games last year and all but 8 games this year that were at a slowed down tempo. Mason is not a freshman. I know he missed a few games early last year by injury but he is the one that needs to adjust and earn the minutes.

DukeDevilDeb
12-27-2010, 09:40 AM
I have watched all but the Elon games (only on TV) and in the other 2 games w/o Kyrie I'd have to say that Mason's shot selection was pretty bad. He's putting up good rebs/min and is not fouling particularly much, so I'd have to say that his PT situation is related to a) his shot selection but also b) the structure of the O now is not geared towards the shots that Mason can really excel at.
I remember Antwan Jamison and how he just tore Duke apart on a couple of occasions due to his quick moves, no hesitation just went strait to the rim. There was one game where Jamison scored like 30 pts and had the ball in his hands on O for a total throughout the game of like 40 seconds. Mason could learn a lot from watching that game tape cuz, shooting-wise, his game and athletic abilities are not dis-similar from Jamison's when he was at UNC.

In Cameron, I sit behind and slightly to the right of the visitors' bench in the Oldies But Definitely Goodies section. I have watched Mason carefully when that is our basket. DukieInBrasil is being very gentle when he says that "Mason's shot selection was pretty bad". He's a great dunker but only a mediocre shooter. I've noticed that if he can't dunk, the odds are that the ball is not going into the basket. Miles, on the other hand, has developed a shot from 10 feet out... not perfect yet but getting closer.

Let's also remember the God-awful three that Mason shot in the last game. Airball, wasn't it? Mason is a great athlete, but he needs to become a better and more intuitive basketball player. I also agree with the statement that Ryan is getting better, both offensively and defensively. He is being rewarded with more minutes.

One more thing... when you compare Mason's minutes to those that Scheyer, Singler, and Smith played last year, he isn't up there. But 24 minutes for a big is pretty darn good.

AtlDuke72
12-27-2010, 11:05 AM
I think the concern from the fans over his minutes arises from the fact that for some reason Mason was anointed as a lottery pick before he ever played at Duke. He has never played to that level He has a lot of potential and I hope he gets there someday, but he is a long way from there now. He is competing with some good players for his minutes and will get more if he earns them.

Devilsfan
12-27-2010, 11:08 AM
I think he caught the "funk" that big brother was in that allowed Ryan to take his place in the starting line up earlier in the year. Just my opinion as a fan.

Kedsy
12-27-2010, 02:12 PM
The main issues seem to be shot selection (fade aways and predictable back-to-the-basket moves instead of strong, quick moves) and fouls.

His minutes have only been down in the last two games, and in those two games he had a grand total of two fouls, combined. So I don't think that's it.

Also, while I don't dispute that his shot selection is not always the best, I sincerely doubt Mason's drop in minutes in the last two games is due to poor shot selection. More likely it has to do with how he's been practicing, compared with Miles and Ryan; and/or how well the coaches believe he is playing defense.

Ultimately, it's silly to get all worked up over a couple of games during break against outmanned opponents. As long as Mason plays good defense and rebounds, the team will be fine.

ChicagoCrazy84
12-27-2010, 03:04 PM
Its strange to see Mason work down low considering how athletic he is. I know he isn't the strongest, but he just looks so slow and awkward trying to post up. He has no moves to go to and that hurts him. Is it a confidence issue or does he really just lack a post game and shooting touch? I think Ryan will continue to take minutes from him cause at this point, he is just the smarter and more consistent player.

Indoor66
12-27-2010, 03:17 PM
Its strange to see Mason work down low considering how athletic he is. I know he isn't the strongest, but he just looks so slow and awkward trying to post up. He has no moves to go to and that hurts him. Is it a confidence issue or does he really just lack a post game and shooting touch? I think Ryan will continue to take minutes from him cause at this point, he is just the smarter and more consistent player.

I am looking (hoping) for a light bulb moment for Mason. It will occur. I hope sooner rather than later.

superdave
12-27-2010, 03:19 PM
Its strange to see Mason work down low considering how athletic he is. I know he isn't the strongest, but he just looks so slow and awkward trying to post up. He has no moves to go to and that hurts him. Is it a confidence issue or does he really just lack a post game and shooting touch? I think Ryan will continue to take minutes from him cause at this point, he is just the smarter and more consistent player.

I think Mason is at his best cutting to the basket - off pick and rolls or off one hard dribble. And dunking, of course. I think a lot of that was tied to Kyrie's assistance, so we need to hope for a little re-learning and re-tooling.

hq2
12-27-2010, 06:24 PM
Its strange to see Mason work down low considering how athletic he is. I know he isn't the strongest, but he just looks so slow and awkward trying to post up. He has no moves to go to and that hurts him. Is it a confidence issue or does he really just lack a post game and shooting touch? I think Ryan will continue to take minutes from him cause at this point, he is just the smarter and more consistent player.

Mason's a decent face up player, but not a very good post up one, and in the current offense, he doesn't seem to be able to do much. They might try working him a little further away from the basket where he might drive more; maybe that would help. Hard to say.

Devilsfan
12-27-2010, 07:26 PM
With the Plumlees taking turns being lost on the court Ryan is the beneficiary with more PT.

Acymetric
12-27-2010, 08:38 PM
I mentioned this to my dad the other day, but I think that ultimately we're going to start playing only 1 of Mason/Miles/Ryan at a time for the majority of the game. We are clearly getting our strongest play from our guards, and we hear all the time that Coach K wants his best 5 on the floor...

Singler and Hairston will share time at the 4 (playing Hairston allows Singler to slide to the 3, we will certainly still some some lineups with 2 of the bigs with Singler at the 3 but I think the minutes for those lineups will dwindle).

Newton_14
12-27-2010, 09:17 PM
I mentioned this to my dad the other day, but I think that ultimately we're going to start playing only 1 of Mason/Miles/Ryan at a time for the majority of the game. We are clearly getting our strongest play from our guards, and we hear all the time that Coach K wants his best 5 on the floor...

Singler and Hairston will share time at the 4 (playing Hairston allows Singler to slide to the 3, we will certainly still some some lineups with 2 of the bigs with Singler at the 3 but I think the minutes for those lineups will dwindle).

I think Kyle will surely see some time at the 4, but in the games since we lost Kyrie, K has gone almost exclusively with Kyle at the 3, with 2 of the true bigs. Very late in the Elon game, Kyle went to the 4 with Nolan, Seth, Andre, and 1 big. That line up played well, so it will be interesting to see how K sets the line up's and rotations when the real games start. I do disagree on Hairston though. I think Josh will see minutes similar to what Ryan saw last year in conference games.

Hard to tell anything from these cupcake games though, as K is experimenting, while also playing Hairston and Thornton many extra minutes for experience. We will get a much better read from the Miami game Sunday than from anything we see in these last 4 games prior to the Miami game.

As to the OP's question, Mason did not play well in these last two games so K sat him and gave the minutes to Miles, Ryan, and Josh. Come Sunday, I expect Mason will see minutes similar to what he played in the games against the better opponents.

Kedsy
12-27-2010, 10:39 PM
I mentioned this to my dad the other day, but I think that ultimately we're going to start playing only 1 of Mason/Miles/Ryan at a time for the majority of the game. We are clearly getting our strongest play from our guards, and we hear all the time that Coach K wants his best 5 on the floor...

Singler and Hairston will share time at the 4 (playing Hairston allows Singler to slide to the 3, we will certainly still some some lineups with 2 of the bigs with Singler at the 3 but I think the minutes for those lineups will dwindle).

What makes you think this? It's almost exactly the opposite of what Coach K has done since Kyrie has been out.

I know I've lagged on the "big vs. small" stats during this phase (I intend to get that going again once league games start), but Kyle played at the 4 for 16+ minutes a game while we had Kyrie, but less than 5 mpg in the three games since Kyrie's been out. I don't think that's a coincidence.

And I know Josh has a lot of energy when he's out on the floor, but I haven't seen anything from him that would make me think he deserves minutes over any of Mason, Miles, and/or Ryan in real games. You apparently have -- what is it?

sagegrouse
12-28-2010, 07:49 AM
I mentioned this to my dad the other day, but I think that ultimately we're going to start playing only 1 of Mason/Miles/Ryan at a time for the majority of the game. We are clearly getting our strongest play from our guards, and we hear all the time that Coach K wants his best 5 on the floor...

Singler and Hairston will share time at the 4 (playing Hairston allows Singler to slide to the 3, we will certainly still some some lineups with 2 of the bigs with Singler at the 3 but I think the minutes for those lineups will dwindle).

Sorry to pile on, Acy, but I am having trouble with your logic. (A) We lost our starting point guard. (B) Therefore, Duke will give the guards more playing time than before, with Nolan, Andre, Seth, and Tyler taking not only Kyrie's minutes but also minutes that would go to big men. (C) Now why is this again?

sagegrouse

dukestheheat
12-28-2010, 09:44 AM
Ryan is getting better too, and taking some of his minutes. Offensively, at least, in the current set up, Ryan appears to be the better player. His D has picked up too. Mason doesn't seem to have found a clear cut role in the new offense.

...that Ryan Kelly is just playing better right now in practice (just a guess). Kelly has been aggressive/more active lately on the floor and is earning more time, and I think that that is why Mason isn't on the floor as often as earlier in the season. Kelly is also looking for an outside shot, which pulls his defender away from the basket and helps our guys for a rebound; this versatility may give him an advantage right now. ?

dth.

OldPhiKap
12-28-2010, 10:22 AM
Carolina delenda est!

Does spreading rock salt help?

dukestheheat
12-28-2010, 12:52 PM
Does spreading rock salt help?

.....it takes.....Carolina is DEAD!

dth.

Indoor66
12-28-2010, 01:53 PM
Does spreading rock salt help?

Only Preparation H will help.

Acymetric
12-28-2010, 02:14 PM
Sorry to pile on, Acy, but I am having trouble with your logic. (A) We lost our starting point guard. (B) Therefore, Duke will give the guards more playing time than before, with Nolan, Andre, Seth, and Tyler taking not only Kyrie's minutes but also minutes that would go to big men. (C) Now why is this again?

sagegrouse

Well I'm not saying we'll play our guards more because we lost Kyrie, I'm saying its because the bigs are underperforming. I think as time goes on their minutes will drop in favor of a smaller lineup unless 2 of them really step up (if only 1 steps up that still plays into the only 1 big+Kyle theory IMO).

I will admit the bit about Josh was probably just to try and make things fit a little better, I'm not expecting big minutes from him but do think he'll see ~5 minutes even during ACC play, varying depending on the situation. Basically I'm just saying that I think our best lineups include 3 guards + Kyle and a big as of now, and if the 3 bigs don't do something to show they deserve the minutes their minutes will dwindle. Clearly this is a minority opinion here, and hopefully Miles/Mason/Ryan will really step up with adequate scoring and the rebounding we need.

I'll admit being extremely disheartened by our rebounding against Elon, who is among the worst rebounding teams in D-1. I know, I know, rust, exams and all that. I'm just far from convinced that we're at our best with 2 bigs on the floor. Time will tell, I suppose.