5 Ohio State Players Suspended

[PADukeMom]

Football not basketball.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5950873

[Bluedog]

Interesting that they're suspended for their first five games of 2011 vs. the likes of SW Missouri State, but not for the bowl game. Can somebody explain to me this rationale?


The players are eligible for the bowl game because the NCAA determined they did not receive adequate rules education during the time period the violations occurred, Lennon said.

If that's the case, isn't it Ohio State's own fault for not educating their players? If the NCAA accepts the fact that individual players shouldn't punished for Ohio State's lack of education, then why are they suspended for five games in 2011? Makes no sense to me. Either they are at fault, or they aren't. You can't say they're at fault "somewhat" so we'll suspend them only for games that are more convenient for them to miss....I'm not saying they should be suspended for the bowl game necessarily, just that the penalty should make sense and not be dependent on the upcoming matchups. Pryor will probably be turning pro anyways so won't miss any games.

Edit: Also, I find it somewhat humorous that players could easily sell their merchandise/awards once they graduate without any repercussions (as far as I know it's not illegal to sell possessions), just not when they're in school. But I understand the premise behind the rule.

[johnb]

Ohio State takes a big hit if it means Pryor leaves for the NFL in 2011 rather than 2012, but it is sort of a joke. It's obvious that the NCAA doesn't want players to be selling their stuff, and the players must have known it, though it does underline the weirdness of a system in which the only people in the country with such restrictions are NCAA athletes.

I also liked this exchange:

On Twitter on Wednesday night, Pryor posted, "I paid for my tattoos. GoBucks"

Pryor's high school coach, Ray Reitz, told ESPN's Joe Schad that Pryor sold items because "he wanted to help his mother."

[mph]

There was virtually no chance the NCAA was going to suspend three of the best offensive players on a team playing in a BCS game. So, rather than hand down a meaningful one game suspension that jeopardized the TV audience for a corporate cash cow, they hand down five game suspensions that, perversely, increase the incentive for three of the penalized players to declare for the NFL draft.

I suspect the NCAA would have crafted a more reasonable penalty if the infractions involved players in the Little Caesar's Bowl.

[nmduke2001]

The ncaa is so hypocritical. How can they justify all of the free stuff that the bowls give to participating players?

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article.printArticle&articleId=67518

Aren’t those things “extra benefits?”

Don't get me wrong, I think a scholarship is more than enough for these athletes and they shouldn't receive anything extra. I just think the NCAA is just laughable with their rules enforcement.

[sagegrouse]

The ncaa is so hypocritical. How can they justify all of the free stuff that the bowls give to participating players?

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article.printArticle&articleId=67518

Aren’t those things “extra benefits?”

Don't get me wrong, I think a scholarship is more than enough for these athletes and they shouldn't receive anything extra. I just think the NCAA is just laughable with their rules enforcement.

If players need extra money, can't they apply for student loans? Other students use them for living expenses, and in some cases, live pretty darned well. For players who are bona fide NFL prospects, paying them back shouldn't be a problem. Or maybe the NCAA doesn't like this either.

I have to say that the constant drumbeat of negative ink on the NCAA because of picayune player transgressions is a terrible way to promote your sport. There's gotta be a better way.

sagegrouse

[tommy]

Interesting that they're suspended for their first five games of 2011 vs. the likes of SW Missouri State, but not for the bowl game. Can somebody explain to me this rationale?



If that's the case, isn't it Ohio State's own fault for not educating their players? If the NCAA accepts the fact that individual players shouldn't punished for Ohio State's lack of education, then why are they suspended for five games in 2011? Makes no sense to me. Either they are at fault, or they aren't. You can't say they're at fault "somewhat" so we'll suspend them only for games that are more convenient for them to miss....I'm not saying they should be suspended for the bowl game necessarily, just that the penalty should make sense and not be dependent on the upcoming matchups. Pryor will probably be turning pro anyways so won't miss any games.

Edit: Also, I find it somewhat humorous that players could easily sell their merchandise/awards once they graduate without any repercussions (as far as I know it's not illegal to sell possessions), just not when they're in school. But I understand the premise behind the rule.

The timing of the penalties is what surprises me. If the NCAA knew it was going to be suspending these guys -- rightly or wrongly -- then why not wait until after OSU's bowl game and the season are over to announce their "findings" and penalty? That way, they avoid the criticism they're taking now, that they're suspending them for games that are more convenient -- and potentially less costly to their corporate partners -- rather than suspending them immediately, which would make more sense on pretty much any level.

[dukelifer]

If players need extra money, can't they apply for student loans? Other students use them for living expenses, and in some cases, live pretty darned well. For players who are bona fide NFL prospects, paying them back shouldn't be a problem. Or maybe the NCAA doesn't like this either.

I have to say that the constant drumbeat of negative ink on the NCAA because of picayune player transgressions is a terrible way to promote your sport. There's gotta be a better way.

sagegrouse
Not sure it is possible. For regular students on fellowships- all new money acts to reduce the amount of their award. One could imagine a booster creating a loan program and never expecting to get paid back.

[sagegrouse]

Not sure it is possible. For regular students on fellowships- all new money acts to reduce the amount of their award. One could imagine a booster creating a loan program and never expecting to get paid back.

I was in grad school many years ago. Is it really true that if one chooses to incur a student loan through a federal program, that it would reduce the stipend, which is already to small to live on, esp. for those with families?

I know a bit about law students and med students these days, and the amounts borrowed are amazing.

Anyway, if this route were to be used, it couldn't be a booster-run program. It would have to be a federal or NCAA-approved program.

sagegrouse

[Acymetric]

I would think athletes on scholarships would still qualify for unsubsidized Stafford loans...does anyone know for a fact that this is untrue? If they do qualify they can get $5,500 their freshman year, $6,500 their sophomore year, and $7,500 for all subsequent years with a maximum of $31,000 from all years combined.

I'm going this route and I'll only be making 30-50k tops in my career, don't see why I should feel bad that athletes would have to take out loans as well so long as there's no NCAA rule against it.

[roywhite]

I know some tOSU fans who have had about enough of Terrelle Pryor, and look forward to him moving on.

Just heard some of Kirk Herbstreit on the radio with Cowherd, and Herbie was ripping Pryor pretty hard...not a leader, selfish, immature, etc.

[terrih]

I think this is stupid. And in fact, it makes me a little angry. There is zero understanding on my side for how these guys are allowed to play in the bowl game. If I wasn't done before this with the NCAA and how they handle college football, I am now. It seems like complete and total hypocrisy.

[strawbs]

now I know it would be difficult to prove when these players got the tattoos, but hypothetically speaking let's say the players got these tattoos at some point during the regular season. Wouldn't that mean that osu had players playing in games when they were ineligible and should forfeit said games? The reason I ask is because i get confused with all the different rulings the ncaa hands down about player eligibility/suspensions etc....
Isn't that what happened with usc/reggie bush? He received gifts, participated in games, and that was ruled ineligable and usc had to forfeit games. I realize there is a difference between tattoos and large sums of money, but at the same time they are both gifts.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry about.

What penalty for Ohio State for not educating the student athletes?

The NCAA is all about MONEY. Somehow they decide not to punish Cam Newton because they could not prove that his father was trying to sell him to the highest bidder. Now they let the Ohio State players play in their bowl game because they were not properly educated!!!!!

Give me a break.

Of course USC gets hammered. At the time I thought the USC penalties were severe but understandable. In light of these decisions the USC penalties are way too severe.
Maybe Reggie Bush should have said he did not know his parents were getting a free house or that it was a loan and he was not taught that your parents could not a loan.

Of course what is really ironic is that the Ohio State players will get gifts from the bowl worth hundreds of dollars. No problem.

Would have been interesting if one of these guys was a senior.

SoCal

[PADukeMom]

I fail to understand most of what the NCAA does. If there were to be any suspensions they should have been immediate IMHO.
It's all good thought for me if Pryor declares since I am a Penn State fan.
"Go my tatts"...WOW...talk about priorities.

[jafarr1]

I don't really care whether Pryor is a good player, a selfish player or a bench-warmer. I'm just tired of the NCAA passing out penalties that certainly seem intended to protect their business interests.

Heck, with their ruling, the NCAA set it up so compliance departments actually have a disincentive to educate their players on the rules. If the players don't know the rules, they won't be suspended for bowl games.

[Kdogg]

The ncaa is so hypocritical. How can they justify all of the free stuff that the bowls give to participating players?

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article.printArticle&articleId=67518

Aren’t those things “extra benefits?”

Basketball players get those too from preseason tournaments. They are "prizes."

[BD80]

Next thing you know, the NFL will suspend Brett Favre 5 games {next year) for the Sterger issue.

[dukelifer]

I was in grad school many years ago. Is it really true that if one chooses to incur a student loan through a federal program, that it would reduce the stipend, which is already to small to live on, esp. for those with families?

I know a bit about law students and med students these days, and the amounts borrowed are amazing.

Anyway, if this route were to be used, it couldn't be a booster-run program. It would have to be a federal or NCAA-approved program.

sagegrouse
Or maybe run through the NCAA as part of being given a scholarship - but perhaps limit it to the revenue generating sports. Actually it does make sense and could allow those who are most likely to be a approached by agents (NFL prospects) to have access to some funds to live off. It would make the NCAA responsible for managing and providing oversight.

[cspan37421]

Next thing you know, the NFL will suspend Brett Favre 5 games {next year) for the Sterger issue.

If the NFL were as transparently gutless as the NCAA, they'd suspend Brett Favre for the duration of training camp.

[Devilsfan]

Herbie's right Tyrell has a lot of early Michael Vick in him. I wish he would grow up in a hurry and start acting like present day Michael Vick.

[AZLA]

NCAA allowed those items to be given to the players -- they're gifts or prizes, right? Once the items become personal property, don't the people have the right to do whatever they want with them? By their logic, I could see the NCAA busting a garage sale.

[roywhite]

NCAA allowed those items to be given to the players -- they're gifts or prizes, right? Once the items become personal property, don't the people have the right to do whatever they want with them? By their logic, I could see the NCAA busting a garage sale.

The explanation I heard is the rule goes back a way, and was designed to prevent a player selling some item to a booster, for example, for an amount far in excess of reasonable value. A jersey worth $200 being sold for $2500, that type of thing. And that such a practice would be a benefit not available to a regular student, even one receiving a full scholarship.

[allenmurray]

They should all change their name to Cam Newton. Then there would be no suspensions.

[hurley1]

I think this is stupid. And in fact, it makes me a little angry. There is zero understanding on my side for how these guys are allowed to play in the bowl game. If I wasn't done before this with the NCAA and how they handle college football, I am now. It seems like complete and total hypocrisy.

it's all about money......not right and wrong........

[SoCalDukeFan]

is ESPN.

Look who wants to watch Oregon-TCU for the NC. So keep let Newton play.

What are the ratings for Ohio State without the star quarterback? So let Pryor play.

Now USC is on the West Coast which presents ESPN with time zone problems. And the Pac 10 (12) has a tie in with Fox. Throw the book at them.

SoCal

[west_coast_devil]

I would think athletes on scholarships would still qualify for unsubsidized Stafford loans...does anyone know for a fact that this is untrue? If they do qualify they can get $5,500 their freshman year, $6,500 their sophomore year, and $7,500 for all subsequent years with a maximum of $31,000 from all years combined.

I'm going this route and I'll only be making 30-50k tops in my career, don't see why I should feel bad that athletes would have to take out loans as well so long as there's no NCAA rule against it.

If not unsubsidized Stafford loans, a student athlete could always take out a private student loan. Those loans are horrible, but to be honest, I had to take out a private loan for housing costs after an illness in my immediate family rendered a change in my family's financial situation.
My point is, there is money available for college student D1 athletes to pay for living expenses, regardless of their situation. It just depends on what route that individual must take; just like any other student. If that student athlete is prospected to be drafted as a pro, they already have it significantly easier then the above average college graduate to pay their debts.... Just my opinion.
To tie-in with this thread, yes, I do think the NCAA does punish incosistently and in a manner that will not effect their cash flow. I believe that the way college football is set up is actually "one big wet rag being squeezed for every drop of water". What occured recently with Ohio State is a prime example.

[JasonEvans]

Here is a good link (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=5951832) on the spineless nature of the NCAA from Pat Forde or ESPN.


So there you have it, future NCAA rules breakers of America (and your parents). Go for the gold. When you get caught, shrug and say, "Why, I had no idea." Blame it on your dad and/or a negligent compliance staff at your university.

There is a very interesting part of the article where he talks about the stuff that Pryor and other players sold.


If they had a full appreciation of what it means to play for Ohio State, and to play in a bowl, and to be part of a tradition much larger than themselves, they wouldn't have sold what they sold. The championship rings would mean too much. So would the gold pants, which are small jewelry awards given to every Buckeye for beating Michigan.

I've seen Ohio State players wearing their gold pants proudly on necklaces. I've heard them talk about what those trinkets mean.

To Pryor and Thomas, they meant one thing: cash on the flash.

--Jason "what fools the NCAA will look like when Pryor and these other guys bolt for the pros" Evans

[Bluedog]

Tressel told the players they wouldn't be allowed to participate in the Sugar Bowl if they didn't vow to come back next season. He says it was an effort to make sure they didn't "skirt the consequences," but sounds like to me he just bribed them to forego the NBA draft to have a better team next season! Would he actually have any power to do anything if the players changed their mind and decided to go to the NFL? I can't help feeling suspicious of Tressel's true intentions.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-sugarbowl


If the NFL were as transparently gutless as the NCAA, they'd suspend Brett Favre for the duration of training camp.

Well, they ended up fining him $50k for not cooperating with the investigation. Not sure how that compares.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Evidently Tressel has gotten the Ohio State 5 to verbally commit to coming back next year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls10/sugar/news/story?id=5970169

The NCAA has issued a statement on its web site trying to show that money had nothing to do with their decision.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2010+news+stories/december/ncaa+statement+on+fairness+of+rules+decisions

In my opinion this is a curious and misleading statement.

The Cam Newton aspect is curious. If Cecil Newton had been successful in getting money for his son's services, then Cam would have been suspended. So I guess their is no penalty for attempted payoff, just for payoff. The NCAA says:
"Put simply, had Cam Newton's father or a third party actually received money or benefits for his recruitment, Cam Newton would have been declared ineligible regardless of his lack of knowledge." Evidently the NCAA is trying to clarify "recruiting and amateurism rules when benefits or money are solicited (but not received)"

The statement about the NCAA not getting money is misleading. The NCAA has a vested interest in high ratings and lucrative TV contracts. If ABC/ESPN and the advertisers take a bath in the NC game and/or the Sugar Bowl, then the NCAA will eventually be damaged. It is in the NCAA's best financial interest to have Auburn and not TCU in the NC game. It is in the NCAA's best financial interest to have Ohio State at full strength with their star qb for the Sugar Bowl. The NCAA took care if its broadcast partner, ABC/ESPN and I am sure expects ESPN to take care of the NCAA.

Lastly the NCAA points to a policy adopted in 2004 for "student-athlete reinstatement for NCAA championships and bowl games." Of course the Ohio State five have not been suspended so how can they be reinstated? There is no mention of any precedent.

I am pretty certain that they NCAA will show how really tough they are by throwing out USC's appeal. Of course, USC is in the Pac 10 and their games are on Fox.

SoCal

[jv001]

Tressel told the players they wouldn't be allowed to participate in the Sugar Bowl if they didn't vow to come back next season. He says it was an effort to make sure they didn't "skirt the consequences," but sounds like to me he just bribed them to forego the NBA draft to have a better team next season! Would he actually have any power to do anything if the players changed their mind and decided to go to the NFL? I can't help feeling suspicious of Tressel's true intentions.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-sugarbowl



Well, they ended up fining him $50k for not cooperating with the investigation. Not sure how that compares.

Bluedog, I hope they do enter the NBA draft. They will not be selected. Wonder what that would do for their football elibility, lol. Go Duke!

[Acymetric]

Evidently Tressel has gotten the Ohio State 5 to verbally commit to coming back next year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls10/sugar/news/story?id=5970169

The NCAA has issued a statement on its web site trying to show that money had nothing to do with their decision.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2010+news+stories/december/ncaa+statement+on+fairness+of+rules+decisions

In my opinion this is a curious and misleading statement.

The Cam Newton aspect is curious. If Cecil Newton had been successful in getting money for his son's services, then Cam would have been suspended. So I guess their is no penalty for attempted payoff, just for payoff. The NCAA says:
"Put simply, had Cam Newton's father or a third party actually received money or benefits for his recruitment, Cam Newton would have been declared ineligible regardless of his lack of knowledge." Evidently the NCAA is trying to clarify "recruiting and amateurism rules when benefits or money are solicited (but not received)"

The statement about the NCAA not getting money is misleading. The NCAA has a vested interest in high ratings and lucrative TV contracts. If ABC/ESPN and the advertisers take a bath in the NC game and/or the Sugar Bowl, then the NCAA will eventually be damaged. It is in the NCAA's best financial interest to have Auburn and not TCU in the NC game. It is in the NCAA's best financial interest to have Ohio State at full strength with their star qb for the Sugar Bowl. The NCAA took care if its broadcast partner, ABC/ESPN and I am sure expects ESPN to take care of the NCAA.

Lastly the NCAA points to a policy adopted in 2004 for "student-athlete reinstatement for NCAA championships and bowl games." Of course the Ohio State five have not been suspended so how can they be reinstated? There is no mention of any precedent.

I am pretty certain that they NCAA will show how really tough they are by throwing out USC's appeal. Of course, USC is in the Pac 10 and their games are on Fox.

SoCal

Yeah, the thing about the NCAA not making money doesn't quite sit with me. So its the NCAA's member institutions making money, not the NCAA. Is that a meaningful distinction?

[Bluedog]

Bluedog, I hope they do enter the NBA draft. They will not be selected. Wonder what that would do for their football elibility, lol. Go Duke!

hahahaha. Sorry about that. My mind is always on basketball, I suppose. ;)

[rthomas]

Not one of my OSU friends think these five will play in their bowl game; Tressel wouldn't let them because of everything he stands for.

The Winners Manual: For the Game of Life shares Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel's “Big Ten” fundamentals for success: Attitude, Discipline, Faith, Handling Adversity & Success, Excellence, Love, Toughness, Responsibility, Team, and Hope.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Not one of my OSU friends think these five will play in their bowl game; Tressel wouldn't let them because of everything he stands for.

The Winners Manual: For the Game of Life shares Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel's “Big Ten” fundamentals for success: Attitude, Discipline, Faith, Handling Adversity & Success, Excellence, Love, Toughness, Responsibility, Team, and Hope.

The one thing Tressel should do is try to win the game with the players he is going to play. So I would guess if the 5 are practicing then they are playing.

SoCal

[JasonEvans]

The one thing Tressel should do is try to win the game with the players he is going to play. So I would guess if the 5 are practicing then they are playing.

From the ESPN article linked above--


Tressel says their playing time against the Razorbacks will hinge only on how they practice and fit into the game plan.

Sounds like they are practicing and will play their normal role in the game.

Pathetic.

--Jason "best part of this story-- among the items Pryor sold: his 2009 Fiesta Bowl Sportsmanship Award... irony anyone?" Evans

[SoCalDukeFan]

From the ESPN article linked above--



Sounds like they are practicing and will play their normal role in the game.

Pathetic.

--Jason "best part of this story-- among the items Pryor sold: his 2009 Fiesta Bowl Sportsmanship Award... irony anyone?" Evans

What is also pathetic is the NCAA trying to explain their decision.

Certainly Ohio State informed the players that they were not to receive money from boosters. They sell trophies that they got from playing football to boosters. Somehow the NCAA decides that since they were not told explicitly that they could not sell trophies etc. so the punishment should start next year. Then they tack on an extra game next year because the players did not come forward once they were told. Of course the NCAA wants you to believe that this has nothing to do with Sugar Bowl ratings for ESPN this year.

I am not sure what I think Tressel should do. On one hand it would be great if he said he did not care what the NCAA says, by his standards they don't get to play in the next game which happens to be the Sugar Bowl. On the other hand, missing the Sugar Bowl and then 5 games is pretty severe and this is kind of an NCAA decision.

SoCal

[Newton_14]

What is also pathetic is the NCAA trying to explain their decision.

Certainly Ohio State informed the players that they were not to receive money from boosters. They sell trophies that they got from playing football to boosters. Somehow the NCAA decides that since they were not told explicitly that they could not sell trophies etc. so the punishment should start next year. Then they tack on an extra game next year because the players did not come forward once they were told. Of course the NCAA wants you to believe that this has nothing to do with Sugar Bowl ratings for ESPN this year.

I am not sure what I think Tressel should do. On one hand it would be great if he said he did not care what the NCAA says, by his standards they don't get to play in the next game which happens to be the Sugar Bowl. On the other hand, missing the Sugar Bowl and then 5 games is pretty severe and this is kind of an NCAA decision.

SoCal

Somewhere Jerry Tarkanian is wondering out loud how Cleveland St has now been put on probation in Football for the sins of Auburn and Ohio St. The NCAA has now become a laughing stock organization. Sadly, with this Ohio St ruling, and the fact that UNC has put on a successful campaign to blame all of their sins on everybody except themselves, I expect UNC will get at best a slap on the wrist for their football mess.

Or, will UNC get the USC treatment, since they do not play in the SEC or Big Ten?

In a fair world, Cam Newton would have been ruled permanently ineligible, and all 5 Ohio St players would have been banned from playing in the Sugar Bowl, and the first 4 Regular Season games next year, with the stipulation they repay all of the monies gained to charity or to Cleveland St's athletic program!:p

Seriously though, who knows what to expect anymore? Given the recent rulings, I see no reason why the Kanter kid cannot immediately start playing for Kentucky. The Cam Newton situation is much worse imo, than the Kanter situation.

[CLT Devil]

Somewhere Jerry Tarkanian is wondering out loud how Cleveland St has now been put on probation in Football for the sins of Auburn and Ohio St. The NCAA has now become a laughing stock organization. Sadly, with this Ohio St ruling, and the fact that UNC has put on a successful campaign to blame all of their sins on everybody except themselves, I expect UNC will get at best a slap on the wrist for their football mess.

Or, will UNC get the USC treatment, since they do not play in the SEC or Big Ten?

In a fair world, Cam Newton would have been ruled permanently ineligible, and all 5 Ohio St players would have been banned from playing in the Sugar Bowl, and the first 4 Regular Season games next year, with the stipulation they repay all of the monies gained to charity or to Cleveland St's athletic program!:p

Seriously though, who knows what to expect anymore? Given the recent rulings, I see no reason why the Kanter kid cannot immediately start playing for Kentucky. The Cam Newton situation is much worse imo, than the Kanter situation.

This is a complete no-win situation for Tressel, unless of course he does what a previous poster mentioned and does not allow the players to play because it goes against what he stands for. It seems that there are little to no ramifications if the players play in the Bowl and then declare for the draft. For the players, the NFL doesn't seem to care what kind of character issues one might have as long as a player can produce...just look at Maurice Clarett or to an extent Mike Vick. After they spurn the NCAA and tOSU all sins will be forgiven in time if the players have a successful NFL career.

Now, how does this help us read our crystal ball in predicting what will happen to UNC? Answer: It's as murky as ever because the inconsistent rulings set zero precedent on which to base any future rulings. I could see the NCAA declaring 'lack of institutional control' and handing down harsh penalties, but I could also see the NCAA basically doing nothing more than what the university imposed on itself and allowing UNC to move on with it's players getting off for 'time already served' with their missing games this year.

I just think the hypocrisy in punishment from the NCAA is absurd, but there is no way around it, no punishing them with your pocketbook like any free market system should have. Do all the major conferences/teams leave the NCAA and start their own Association? If so, will it be any better than the current system. For all the rule books and statutes they have, there sure does seem to be plenty of grey areas and fuzzy lines for them to bend the rules as they please. I hate to rant, but this situation and how it was handled is ridiculous. The NCAA doesn't need credibility, as all college athletes have no choice but to deal with the organization.

[PADukeMom]

Evidently Tressel has gotten the Ohio State 5 to verbally commit to coming back next year.


A "verbal commitment" is only as good as the paper it was written on.

[tommy]

Not one of my OSU friends think these five will play in their bowl game; Tressel wouldn't let them because of everything he stands for.

The Winners Manual: For the Game of Life shares Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel's “Big Ten” fundamentals for success: Attitude, Discipline, Faith, Handling Adversity & Success, Excellence, Love, Toughness, Responsibility, Team, and Hope.

So if he lets the five guys play, that means maybe Tressel doesn't actually stand for all those fundamentals then, huh?

He could make a great statement by keeping all five out, but the reality is that by allowing them to play, he's also making a statement -- just not the kind that is consistent with the image he wants to be projecting.

[Verga3]

So if he lets the five guys play, that means maybe Tressel doesn't actually stand for all those fundamentals then, huh?

He could make a great statement by keeping all five out, but the reality is that by allowing them to play, he's also making a statement -- just not the kind that is consistent with the image he wants to be projecting.

Certainly agree. Let's see what happens.

If they do in fact stay and delay a potential NFL paycheck they could always (if they win) have a family member sell their Sugar Bowl rings without their knowledge.

[El_Diablo]

It appears Pryor was exchanging autographs for "loaner" cars as well, getting pulled over three times in the past three years while driving vehicles that belonged either to an auto dealership or to an employee at that dealership.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/01/02/no-ncaa-violation-found-in-pryor-using-loaned-cars.html?sid=101

Supposedly Pryor was getting work done on his car one time and was just "test driving" another time. No word on the third reason though. Maybe he wanted another test drive? I'm sure these were the only three times he ever used one of these cars, and that it was just a massive coincidence that he got pulled over each time.

Of course, OSU found nothing suspicious with this. Despite the fact that had OSU received an anonymous letter stating that players were exchanging autographed memorabilia for loaner cars. And the dealership has a number of authographed jerseys hanging up (including from Pryor). And players have supposedly being doing something similar to get free tattoos. I guess it was all just a series of coincidences...thanks for policing yourselves appropriately, OSU! :D

[El_Diablo]

Pryor also admits that he knew selling his memorabilia was wrong at the time, so the "they didn't know it was wrong to sell their own property" defense sounds pretty weak.

He also suggests that some of his teammates will not honor their pledge to return next season.


"It's important to keep your word, but at the same time, some guys have different situations," he said. "I think some guys pledged and some guys, we were just basically saying sorry. I don't want to say that if (others) would choose to leave that they're breaking a pledge. I think some guys have different situations."

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/01/02/pryor-opens-up-on-suspensions.html

[tommy]

It appears Pryor was exchanging autographs for "loaner" cars as well, getting pulled over three times in the past three years while driving vehicles that belonged either to an auto dealership or to an employee at that dealership.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/01/02/no-ncaa-violation-found-in-pryor-using-loaned-cars.html?sid=101

Supposedly Pryor was getting work done on his car one time and was just "test driving" another time. No word on the third reason though. Maybe he wanted another test drive? I'm sure these were the only three times he ever used one of these cars, and that it was just a massive coincidence that he got pulled over each time.

Of course, OSU found nothing suspicious with this. Despite the fact that had OSU received an anonymous letter stating that players were exchanging autographed memorabilia for loaner cars. And the dealership has a number of authographed jerseys hanging up (including from Pryor). And players have supposedly being doing something similar to get free tattoos. I guess it was all just a series of coincidences...thanks for policing yourselves appropriately, OSU! :D

Cover your heads, Cleveland State!

[JasonEvans]

Almost done with 3rd quarter--

Pryor having a huge game -- 228 yards passing, 78 yards rushing, 2 TD passes.
Fellow suspended-but-not-suspended players RB Dan Herron (66 yards rushing plus a TD) and Devier Posey (70 yards receiving plus a TD) are also having very good games.

What are the odds they bolt for the NFL? 50%? 75%? 90%?

--Jason "Ohio State... where ethics go to die" Evans

[tommy]

Arkansas just got a safety so has closed the gap to only 8 early in the 4th, and they have all the momentum. If the Big 10 blows this one, well, wow.

Yeah, Pryor and the others will be back next year. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[cspan37421]

Someone might rightly say that technicalities in rules are just as much part of the rules as anything else, and if we were in a similar situation, we might well claim that tOSU and Tressel's decision to play the guys broke no rules. Having said all that, I am revolted at all involved, not the least of which is the NCAA (which has done more facilitating than Dina Lohan) and IMHO Jim Litke hits it out of the park with this column:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/40921982/ns/sports-college_football/

[PADukeMom]

That's the difference between Penn State & Ohio State. JoePA would have sat them. He did it, man many moons ago with Enis (for the life of me I can't remember his last name) for a bowl game over a suit to wear to the bowl game.

[cspan37421]

wild guess, but do you mean Curtis Enis?

Anyway, yes, I appreciate your juxtaposition. Sometimes, those who feel compelled to thump their chest about integrity are compensating for something - or maybe doing it just as a necessary reminder to themselves. But that's how you can tell Tressel is old school; some coaches these days don't even bother to be two-faced about it.

[dcdevil2009]

RE Scholarships:

My understanding of the scholarship/loan issue is that both athletic scholarships and federally subsidized loans are capped at the cost of attendance. Since the cost of attendance includes tuition, room and board, and a certain amount of personal expenses in addition to tuition less any scholarships, the cost of attendance for a student athlete on a full scholarship would be 0 and he or she couldn't borrow anything else. Additionally, if they were to borrow money based on future earnings, such as what LeBron's mom did when she bought an H2 while he was in high school, the athlete would lose their amateur status.

RE Pryor et al.:

Say what you will about the NCAA or Tressel's handling of the situation, but I've been very impressed with how apologetic and contrite TP has come off in the wake of this scandal. I feel like every time I've seen him interviewed, he's gone out of his way to apologize to OSU fans, coaches, and teammates. He wasn't reading of a prepared statement in his original press conference/apology and hasn't hid behind any justifications or excuses for why he did it, even though a large number of people (including myself) don't think he did anything morally wrong.

[roywhite]

RE Pryor et al.:

Say what you will about the NCAA or Tressel's handling of the situation, but I've been very impressed with how apologetic and contrite TP has come off in the wake of this scandal. I feel like every time I've seen him interviewed, he's gone out of his way to apologize to OSU fans, coaches, and teammates. He wasn't reading of a prepared statement in his original press conference/apology and hasn't hid behind any justifications or excuses for why he did it, even though a large number of people (including myself) don't think he did anything morally wrong.

Really?

To me, he looks like a guy who bends or breaks the rules whenever possible. I have relatives who live in Columbus and are big tOSU fans; they tell me that quite a few of their fans are sick of Terrelle's antics and look forward to him moving on.

To each his own on this sort of thing, I guess.

[SupaDave]

Really?

To me, he looks like a guy who bends or breaks the rules whenever possible. I have relatives who live in Columbus and are big tOSU fans; they tell me that quite a few of their fans are sick of Terrelle's antics and look forward to him moving on.

To each his own on this sort of thing, I guess.

Well just imagine if he went to Michigan - they'd really hate him now.

[SupaDave]

It appears Pryor was exchanging autographs for "loaner" cars as well, getting pulled over three times in the past three years while driving vehicles that belonged either to an auto dealership or to an employee at that dealership.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/01/02/no-ncaa-violation-found-in-pryor-using-loaned-cars.html?sid=101

Supposedly Pryor was getting work done on his car one time and was just "test driving" another time. No word on the third reason though. Maybe he wanted another test drive? I'm sure these were the only three times he ever used one of these cars, and that it was just a massive coincidence that he got pulled over each time.

Of course, OSU found nothing suspicious with this. Despite the fact that had OSU received an anonymous letter stating that players were exchanging autographed memorabilia for loaner cars. And the dealership has a number of authographed jerseys hanging up (including from Pryor). And players have supposedly being doing something similar to get free tattoos. I guess it was all just a series of coincidences...thanks for policing yourselves appropriately, OSU! :D

I'll say just one thing about this b/c the situation is over and done but you should recall that Clarrett's situation all started with guess what? LOANER CARS!!! You do the math...

[SupaDave]

Almost done with 3rd quarter--

Pryor having a huge game -- 228 yards passing, 78 yards rushing, 2 TD passes.
Fellow suspended-but-not-suspended players RB Dan Herron (66 yards rushing plus a TD) and Devier Posey (70 yards receiving plus a TD) are also having very good games.

What are the odds they bolt for the NFL? 50%? 75%? 90%?

--Jason "Ohio State... where ethics go to die" Evans

They are idiots if they don't bolt (especially with what looks like a foot injury for Pryor)... The NFL could care less.

[dcdevil2009]

Really?

To me, he looks like a guy who bends or breaks the rules whenever possible. I have relatives who live in Columbus and are big tOSU fans; they tell me that quite a few of their fans are sick of Terrelle's antics and look forward to him moving on.

To each his own on this sort of thing, I guess.

I'm not an OSU fan and haven't followed the scandal beyond the ESPN coverage and the post-Sugar Bowl interview he gave, so I don't want to speak toward his other antics. I just don't think he did anything morally wrong by selling something valuable that earned (the golden pants award) to someone who valued it more than Pryor. If the NCAA ruled correctly, saying he didn't know it was against the rules when he sold it, then he couldn't have been trying to bend or break the rules.

It's a slightly different scenario, but do you think it's wrong for an Olympic athlete to sell a gold medal? What if there was a rule against it that he didn't know about until after the fact?

[roywhite]

I'm not an OSU fan and haven't followed the scandal beyond the ESPN coverage and the post-Sugar Bowl interview he gave, so I don't want to speak toward his other antics. I just don't think he did anything morally wrong by selling something valuable that earned (the golden pants award) to someone who valued it more than Pryor. If the NCAA ruled correctly, saying he didn't know it was against the rules when he sold it, then he couldn't have been trying to bend or break the rules.

It's a slightly different scenario, but do you think it's wrong for an Olympic athlete to sell a gold medal? What if there was a rule against it that he didn't know about until after the fact?

Just my opinion, but I don't buy the concept that Pryor and his teammates didn't know it was against the rules to re-sell this merchandise. If you read some about tOSU in this scandal, it seems they have a small army of compliance people, and it doesn't seem possible that they didn't communicate the policy in this area to the team.

The rule against this, as I understand it, came up to prevent re-sale of merchandise to a booster, for example, at a price far above the market value. Player A would get a team jersey, and Mr. Booster would pay him $500 for it, even though a fair price might by $80 or $100. It would amount to money laundering.

I don't expect some of the Ohio State players who are supposedly suspended for 5 games next season to even return. They are likely to declare for the NFL draft, and go to the pros.

[94duke]

Pryor knew. He said so himself:


Then Pryor showed up at the Sugar Bowl and proceeded to cast doubt on the promise supposedly made by the suspended players that they’d return for next season (a supposed condition on their bowl eligibility). Later he appeared to hack at Ohio State’s claim the players didn’t know the rules in the first place.

“I already knew what I shouldn’t have done back two years ago,” he said.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-pryor010311