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View Full Version : MSU NCAA Violation - Izzo gets one game suspension



DukeVol
12-17-2010, 05:42 PM
Looks like a slight black mark on Izzo's reputation.

He will be suspended for a game due to a secondary violation related to a middle school summer camp attended by a MSU staff member.

Curious to hear people's comments based on the general respect for Izzo around these parts.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5931058

Bluedog
12-17-2010, 05:46 PM
Looks like a slight black mark on Izzo's reputation.

He will be suspended for a game due to a secondary violation related to a middle school summer camp attended by a MSU staff member.

Curious to hear people's comments based on the general respect for Izzo around these parts.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5931058

Eh, doesn't change my opinion of Izzo at all. I still hold him in the highest regard as a coach with integrity. It was inadvertent and a new rule change probably caused some confusion. It's not that an MSU staffer attended a middle school camp - it's that MSU paid somebody for five days who has some association with a potential prospect. What that association is/who the individual is doesn't seem to be disclosed.

Here's more from Jeff Goodman:

http://jeffgoodman.yardbarker.com/blog/jeffgoodman/izzo_suspended_for_tomorrows_game_for_secondary_vi olation/3812759


Coaches now can’t employ anyone that is associated or could be potentially associated with a prospect or could be given a suspension.

Sounds like a bit of a gray area to me...

WiJoe
12-17-2010, 05:55 PM
msu ncaa violation = barely worthy of mention. Not a big Izzo fan (he has short man's complex), but really, there's nothing to see here. I no way would I go as far as Bluedog, though: "highest regard as a coach with integrity".

Whoa Nellie!

Happy holidays!

DukeVol
12-17-2010, 05:56 PM
Good catch. It's the whole "paying of associates" under the guise of a camp that NCAA takes issue with.

cspan37421
12-17-2010, 06:13 PM
Not a big Izzo fan (he has short man's complex),


Fascinating. You know this because ... ???

Duvall
12-17-2010, 06:17 PM
Looks like a slight black mark on Izzo's reputation.

He will be suspended for a game due to a secondary violation related to a middle school summer camp attended by a MSU staff member.

Curious to hear people's comments based on the general respect for Izzo around these parts.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5931058

I think it says more about the NCAA than it does about Izzo, given some of the shameless shenanigans that have gone unpunished.

dcdevil2009
12-17-2010, 06:18 PM
Not a big Izzo fan (he has short man's complex)

But what about a Little Izzo fan?

SoCalDukeFan
12-17-2010, 06:47 PM
seems to be concerned about something like this but does not care that Cam Newton's father shopped him around.

SoCal

CEF1959
12-17-2010, 07:01 PM
I can appreciate the frustration expressed by Izzo and others -- seems like an overreaction to something pretty ticky-tack that was pretty unlikely to give MSU an advantage in recruiting. I happen to believe Tom Izzo's reputation as a guy of integrity who plays by the rules.

But I think something had to be done here, and Izzo could have avoided the problem with better institutional controls.

Teams can't hire associates of recruits. Good rule. Otherwise, every slimey "uncle" or "associate" of a big name talent would be Assistant Manager for Player Development or Camp Counselor (or whatever) for a period long enough to grease the skids and recruit the kid.

And it's tough to create a perfect rule -- one that's neither underinclusive (i.e. full of loopholes) or overinclusive (i.e. one that catches conduct not contemplated by the rule). It's like a government ethics rule preventing payments to public officials -- you are trying to prevent bribery, but you'll fail to catch some crooks, and you will catch other people in circumstances where no bribery is likely.

Here the hiring probably was innocuous, but they paid $400+ to someone associated with an MSU recruit. Were they trying to get a leg up with that recruit? Pretty unlikely (not sure what Cal is paying per recruit these days, but it's north of $500 for sure). But they still made the payment.

And here's the kicker: It's preventable. You give every potential hire a list of every potential recruit, and you ask: Do you know any of these kids? If so, you inquire further. Or something like that. Every program has a system for ensuring compliance with NCAA rules. The ones that don't take it seriously are in danger of being found not to promote an atmosphere of compliance, which is serious.

But even for those with good systems they try in good faith to follow, things fall through the cracks (Nolan's summer game thing for example), and when they do, you gotta pay the man. Then you take steps to tighten compliance procedures.

I feel bad for Izzo, but I'd feel better about him if he wouldn't whine about the injustice of the suspension.

PS about Cam Newton: People care; it's just that they didn't find that Auburn or Cam Newton himself violated any NCAA rule. MSU violated a rule.

dukemsu
12-17-2010, 10:09 PM
MSU is not a dirty program. Izzo is not without his faults, but the program follows rules closely, dating back to Heathcote who was a legendary paranoid about compliance. The coaches who work the camps fill out 1099s as University employees. Something got missed here, and Izzo may have made it worse by publicly stating he didn t agree with the ruling. MSU has had its share of player discipline problems, but this secondary violation is the first whiff of compliance smoke around the program in decades. dukemsu

diveonthefloor
12-17-2010, 10:32 PM
Izzo = suspended for this????

While Cali-slimi goes skating by the NCAA year after year?????

That just about says all I need to know about the NCAA's seriousness regarding maintaining clean programs.

Unbelievable.

dcdevil2009
12-17-2010, 10:53 PM
Izzo = suspended for this????

While Cali-slimi goes skating by the NCAA year after year?????

That just about says all I need to know about the NCAA's seriousness regarding maintaining clean programs.

Unbelievable.

As counterintuitive as it sounds, Calipari might know the NCAA rulebook better than any coach in the NCAA. I'm not sure if he knows or cares about the intent of the NCAA's rules, but there's a reason why he's never been held responsible for everything that's gone on around him. He knows the system well enough to keep himself out of trouble for the actions of those around him. Unfortunately, the NCAA's rules are too rigid and don't leave room to protect the game from guys like Calipari, who haven't technically violated any rules, and leave the NCAA no choice but to suspend guys like Izzo for things that are technically violations, but not for the reasons the rules are in place.

diveonthefloor
12-17-2010, 10:59 PM
As counterintuitive as it sounds, Calipari might know the NCAA rulebook better than any coach in the NCAA. I'm not sure if he knows or cares about the intent of the NCAA's rules, but there's a reason why he's never been held responsible for everything that's gone on around him. He knows the system well enough to keep himself out of trouble for the actions of those around him. Unfortunately, the NCAA's rules are too rigid and don't leave room to protect the game from guys like Calipari, who haven't technically violated any rules, and leave the NCAA no choice but to suspend guys like Izzo for things that are technically violations, but not for the reasons the rules are in place.


Sigh....You're probably right....but try telling that to a Memphis Tigers fan after the entire Derrick Rose season was forfeited.

-jk
12-17-2010, 11:44 PM
As counterintuitive as it sounds, Calipari might know the NCAA rulebook better than any coach in the NCAA. I'm not sure if he knows or cares about the intent of the NCAA's rules, but there's a reason why he's never been held responsible for everything that's gone on around him. He knows the system well enough to keep himself out of trouble for the actions of those around him. Unfortunately, the NCAA's rules are too rigid and don't leave room to protect the game from guys like Calipari, who haven't technically violated any rules, and leave the NCAA no choice but to suspend guys like Izzo for things that are technically violations, but not for the reasons the rules are in place.

The NCAA is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If the rules are loose and open for interpretation, someone would scream Foul! when the treatment of Izzo isn't the same as the treatment of Cali.

Or (as they've chosen), the NCAA writes ever more precise language, but they can't foresee each and every possible contingency. And so they leave loopholes big enough to drive an armored truck through.

They really can't win. I'm glad it's not my fight.

-jk

4decadedukie
12-18-2010, 07:35 AM
ESPN reports (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5931058) that Tom Izzo has been suspended for one game due to a "secondary violation," specifically employing an individual connected to a potential recruit.


"Coach Tom Izzo will serve a one-game suspension for a secondary violation of NCAA rules tied to a summer basketball camp. Michigan State officials said late Friday afternoon the school employed someone associated with a potential recruit during a basketball camp in June. The person was paid $475 for five days of working with middle schoolers. Izzo says he regrets what happened and called it an unintentional violation of the rules."

Izzo is one of the legitimate luminaries in intercollegiate basketball. In addition, his reputation for integrity, for academic emphasis, and for doing things in an appropriate manner is outstanding. In fact, he is often discussed in terms very similar to Coach K, and these two demonstrated coaching superstars -- both in many ways that are much more important than on-court performance and historically relevant seasons alone -- obviously enjoy great mutual respect.

Even when every conceivable effort is made to ensure flawless ethics, issues and minor irregularities will occur; coaches do not have perfect information or encyclopedic knowledge of NCAA regulatory nuances, compliance staffs err, athletic departments cannot amass comprehensive background information, and so forth.

What I find incredible, however, is the NCAA's willingness to punish a coach like Izzo (admittedly, a one game suspension is fitting for this minor matter) at the same time it permits coaches and programs that ALWAYS push the ethical and academic envelopes' reasonable limits and that are clearly not dedicated to the scholar-athlete concept (Kentucky basketball, UNC football, recently USC football and basketball, UConn Men's basketball, etc.) to continue denigrating college sports, while it (the NCAA) investigates, deliberates, and assesses the ramifications of potential sanctions. It is the intercollegiate sports equivalent of zealously enforcing minor traffic statues while murder investigations -- and their concomitant punishments -- never reach fruition.

JohnGalt
12-18-2010, 09:11 AM
I applaud the AD for this comment:


During a news conference Friday, MSU athletic director Mark Hollis said the only way to ensure a violation like this doesn't occur is to "not have summer camps."

Does it get anymore gray than "someone associated with a potential recruit." There's a tremendous amount of ambiguity there and I really do find it amusing the NCAA has managed to pass judgement on Izzo, with regard to something so innocuous, while several other much more blatant and much more nefarious perps continue to operate unscathed.

I mean, it's not like MSU could have self-reported a penalty they didn't realize they even committed. I suppose if somehow they were so self-enlightened, the penalty would have been less severe?

Hogwash.

oldnavy
12-18-2010, 09:53 AM
...and Butch Davis gets to coach in a bowl game... wow!