MJ and NC Sports Hall of Fame snub

[Kimist]

There has been a lot of discussion locally regarding the recent induction of Michael Jordan into the NC Sports Hall of Fame.

For every other member, the awards have always been presented in Raleigh which is the home of the HOF. (Exceptions are available for posthumous awards, special circumstances due to declining health, etc.)

But Jordan's award was made in Charlotte earlier this week at a Charlotte Bobcats game. They even dragged out Dean Smith, who is obviously enduring some level of dementia issues, for the well-staged event.

Jordan was long ago eligible for the award, but apparently has refused to accept the award in Raleigh as every other recipient has done.

There is some debate as to whether Jordan needed the award more than the HOF needed the prestige of the award to Jordan.

Is this another case of the "Jordan Rules" (not too far from oft-encountered Carolina arrogance) or is there far more to this story?

Generally speaking I have great respect for MJ, but whatever has been going on here has given me some serious second thoughts as to how the man thinks and/or perceives his own perhaps inflated "importance."

Inquiring minds would like to know!

k

[JasonEvans]

Here is a pretty good article (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/8783124/) on the subject.


But, in order to be enshrined, you must be willing to attend the annual spring banquet in Raleigh. That’s the rule, and the NCSHOF wouldn’t break that rule for anyone. Unless you were elected posthumously – or on your deathbed – it was pretty clear; to be in the Hall you had to come to the dinner. That’s the way it was for Arnold Palmer, Dale Earnhardt, Mike Krzyzewski, Roy Williams, Ronnie Shavlik, Billy Packer, James Worthy, and so on and so on and so on. You get the point.

Until now, that is.

--Jason "disgusting by Jordan... what a jerk!" Evans

[Lord Ash]

Generally speaking I have great respect for MJ, but whatever has been going on here has given me some serious second thoughts as to how the man thinks and/or perceives his own perhaps inflated "importance."

k

There is your first problem. Jordan has one of the most out-of-control egos in the history of pro sports. Some of the stories about him are just jaw-dropping. Now, some of that insane competitiveness is what made him the athlete he was, but man, he is one of the biggest jerks in sports history, willing to force 60 year old coaches out of bed to embarrass them on the golf course, willing to give one of the most disappointing and egotistical HOF speeches ever heard, and willing to do anything to teammates and employees to prove HE is better than they are.

[CEF1959]

You'll all remember that Marcus Jordan, Michael Jordan's son, was recruited to play at the University of Central Florida, which had an Adidas contract. Marcus (untested freshman) refused to play in anything other than his father's Nike shoes, something he hadn't mentioned when they were recruiting him. So Adidas canceled the contract with UCF.

Tada!! UCF switched to Nike. http://content.usatoday.com/communit...al-with-nike/1

Makes me wanna puke.

[Kimist]

There is your first problem. Jordan has one of the most out-of-control egos in the history of pro sports. Some of the stories about him are just jaw-dropping. Now, some of that insane competitiveness is what made him the athlete he was, but man, he is one of the biggest jerks in sports history, willing to force 60 year old coaches out of bed to embarrass them on the golf course, willing to give one of the most disappointing and egotistical HOF speeches ever heard, and willing to do anything to teammates and employees to prove HE is better than they are.

I guess perhaps I should have narrowed my "respect" to his athletic skills. Quite frankly I do not track too many professional sports figures. Mea culpa for personal ignorance of the more recent exploits of MJ.

From reading the cited WRAL thread, and other comments here, it does indeed appear that Mr. Jordan likely exhibits entirely too much of "the Carolina way" raised to a professional level.

Thanks for the comments.

k

[Duvall]

Is this another case of the "Jordan Rules" (not too far from oft-encountered Carolina arrogance) or is there far more to this story?

Generally speaking I have great respect for MJ, but whatever has been going on here has given me some serious second thoughts as to how the man thinks and/or perceives his own perhaps inflated "importance."

Inquiring minds would like to know!

k

No, that's pretty much it. Michael Jordan was a fearless competitor and an otherworldly athlete. He was also a raging egomaniac, a serial philanderer and a degenerate gambler. He also drafted Kwame Brown with the #1 overall pick.

That's just who he is.

[SupaDave]

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. This is pretty much an excuse to rail on Jordan. Are you complaining b/c HE didn't care about getting enshrined? WOW! What about all the old geezers salivating to put his name on a plaque? Somehow this is HIS fault? I'm sure there are plenty of other candidates worthy of being enshrined in NC's Bball Hall of Fame (like Rodney Rogers for instance who more than fits the bill) so why not go after these guys?

Here's a bid for my former classmate - Dewayne Washington.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewayne_Washington

Supa "nobody wanted to hear me when I said UCF would be Nike soon" Dave

[slower]

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. This is pretty much an excuse to rail on Jordan. Are you complaining b/c HE didn't care about getting enshrined? WOW! What about all the old geezers salivating to put his name on a plaque? Somehow this is HIS fault? I'm sure there are plenty of other candidates worthy of being enshrined in NC's Bball Hall of Fame (like Rodney Rogers for instance who more than fits the bill) so why not go after these guys?

Here's a bid for my former classmate - Dewayne Washington.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewayne_Washington

Supa "nobody wanted to hear me when I said UCF would be Nike soon" Dave

It doesn't change the validity of what Duvall said.

[SupaDave]

It doesn't change the validity of what Duvall said.

Sure it's valid - but that's only if you prefer to look at the negative aspects of a man's life. He's still by all accounts a good father, a one man economic boom, philanthropist, basketball mentor, and provider of some of the best shoes and sports moments of my life...

Supa "they could at least get creative and get Michael Thompson to invite him" Dave

[CEF1959]

Sure it's valid - but that's only if you prefer to look at the negative aspects of a man's life. He's still by all accounts a good father, a one man economic boom, philanthropist, basketball mentor, and provider of some of the best shoes and sports moments of my life...

Supa "they could at least get creative and get Michael Thompson to invite him" Dave

Boils down to this: "Deserving Hall of Famer is Sometimes a Self-Important Overbearing Jerk."

The concepts of greatness and being an arghole are not mutually exclusive.

[slower]

Sure it's valid - but that's only if you prefer to look at the negative aspects of a man's life. He's still by all accounts a good father, a one man economic boom, philanthropist, basketball mentor, and provider of some of the best shoes and sports moments of my life...

Supa "they could at least get creative and get Michael Thompson to invite him" Dave

See, the whole "serial philanderer" part kind of eliminates him from the "by all accounts a good father" category. But maybe you have a different take on things.

"one man economic boom" - sure

"philanthropist" - sure, I'll give you that one, although I don't hear his name come up when people discuss great philanthropists

"basketball mentor" - sure

"provider of..." - obviously

Everybody has their own take. I'm not a member of Jock-Sniffers International (and I'm not saying that YOU are), so I don't worship the guy. He's an epic success as an athlete and, by many accounts, an epic failure as a human being.

[NSDukeFan]

See, the whole "serial philanderer" part kind of eliminates him from the "by all accounts a good father" category. But maybe you have a different take on things.

"one man economic boom" - sure

"philanthropist" - sure, I'll give you that one, although I don't hear his name come up when people discuss great philanthropists

"basketball mentor" - sure

"provider of..." - obviously

Everybody has their own take. I'm not a member of Jock-Sniffers International (and I'm not saying that YOU are), so I don't worship the guy. He's an epic success as an athlete and, by many accounts, an epic failure as a human being.

Reminds me of the John Wooden quote that the best thing you can do for your children is love their mother. Don't know if that qualifies.

[77devil]

Supa "they could at least get creative and get Michael Thompson to invite him" Dave

?? You mean David.

[dcdevil2009]

No, that's pretty much it. Michael Jordan was a fearless competitor and an otherworldly athlete. He was also a raging egomaniac, a serial philanderer and a degenerate gambler. He also drafted Kwame Brown with the #1 overall pick.

Here's a pretty interesting SI article from shortly after Jordan drafted Kwame #1. It touches on Brown's workout with Jordan and how much of Jordan Brown has in him. It's kind of humorous given what we know now.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1022963/index.htm

I also just realized that Brown signed with the Bobcats this year. Does Jordan's competitive nature and refusal to admit he was wrong guarantee Brown a roster spot as long as Jordan runs a team?

[sagegrouse]

There is your first problem. Jordan has one of the most out-of-control egos in the history of pro sports. Some of the stories about him are just jaw-dropping. Now, some of that insane competitiveness is what made him the athlete he was, but man, he is one of the biggest jerks in sports history, willing to force 60 year old coaches out of bed to embarrass them on the golf course, willing to give one of the most disappointing and egotistical HOF speeches ever heard, and willing to do anything to teammates and employees to prove HE is better than they are.

You forgot to mention that he personally chose Kwame Brown with the first overall pick in the NBA draft. Do you think Pau Gasol might have been a better choice?

sagegrouse

[Huh?]

You forgot to mention that he personally chose Kwame Brown with the first overall pick in the NBA draft. Do you think Pau Gasol might have been a better choice?

sagegrouse

He also drafted Adam Morrison and Sean May, traded Jason Richardson, Shannon Brown and Jared Dudley, wouldn't pay Raymond Felton....it goes on and on.
He was very successful as a basketball player and because of that Nike made him a successful business man.IMO

[BD80]

... Michael Jordan was a fearless competitor and an otherworldly athlete. He was also a raging egomaniac, a serial philanderer and a degenerate gambler. He also drafted Kwame Brown with the #1 overall pick.

That's just who he is.

I still maintain that his first "retirement" to play baseball was a plea-bargain with David Stern (brokered by Nike?), so Stern didn't have to take action regarding MJ's gambling.

[hurleyfor3]

I still maintain that his first "retirement" to play baseball was a plea-bargain with David Stern (brokered by Nike?), so Stern didn't have to take action regarding MJ's gambling.

You, me, Bill Simmons and most of Chicago.

[weezie]

Yah, they weren't fooling anybody in Detroit.

Grumble.

[moonpie23]

You forgot to mention that he personally chose Kwame Brown with the first overall pick in the NBA draft. Do you think Pau Gasol might have been a better choice?

sagegrouse

there was another guy in that draft that was pretty good too........shane ...

[JasonEvans]

You forgot to mention that he personally chose Kwame Brown with the first overall pick in the NBA draft. Do you think Pau Gasol might have been a better choice?

In fairness, almost no one thought Gasol was a great pick. He was one of those "maybe the foreigner will be good, but who knows" kinda picks. The Hawks drafted him and immediately traded him to Memphis for Shareef Abdur-Raheem. One of the finest moments in Hawks history, to be sure.

I think most folks felt the pick of Brown was a decent one. There was some talk that a team might take Shane with the #1 pick. He was judged the most NBA ready player in the draft, for sure. Tyson Chandler and Eddie Griffin were the other guys I recall being talked about as potential #1 picks. It was not a good draft (unless you took a foreigner -- Gasol and Tony Parker are arguably the two best players from that draft). Frankly, anyone taken with the #1 pick in the draft would be labeled a bust. I am glad Shane was not the guy to get that tag.

-Jason "Jordan's track record as a talent evaluator/draft picker is really bad though" Evans

[sagegrouse]

In fairness, almost no one thought Gasol was a great pick. He was one of those "maybe the foreigner will be good, but who knows" kinda picks. The Hawks drafted him and immediately traded him to Memphis for Shareef Abdur-Raheem. One of the finest moments in Hawks history, to be sure.

I think most folks felt the pick of Brown was a decent one. There was some talk that a team might take Shane with the #1 pick. He was judged the most NBA ready player in the draft, for sure. Tyson Chandler and Eddie Griffin were the other guys I recall being talked about as potential #1 picks. It was not a good draft (unless you took a foreigner -- Gasol and Tony Parker are arguably the two best players from that draft). Frankly, anyone taken with the #1 pick in the draft would be labeled a bust. I am glad Shane was not the guy to get that tag.

-Jason "Jordan's track record as a talent evaluator/draft picker is really bad though" Evans

It only took one training camp for the Wiz to realize the steep slope Kwame Brown faced. He couldn't get anything straight on either offense or defense. Probably came out of a high school (Hilton Head area) where the level of coaching was really uninspired. I think evaluating a player mentally is part of the process, and Jordan totally missed it.

sagegrouse

[SupaDave]

See, the whole "serial philanderer" part kind of eliminates him from the "by all accounts a good father" category. But maybe you have a different take on things.

"one man economic boom" - sure

"philanthropist" - sure, I'll give you that one, although I don't hear his name come up when people discuss great philanthropists

"basketball mentor" - sure

"provider of..." - obviously

Everybody has their own take. I'm not a member of Jock-Sniffers International (and I'm not saying that YOU are), so I don't worship the guy. He's an epic success as an athlete and, by many accounts, an epic failure as a human being.

This sounds a bit bitter to me. Not to get too deep in it but father and husband are not synonymous. MJ's kids have turned out pretty good considering the circumstances (even if Marcus and Jeff are the Paris and Nicole of basketball).

It's amazing how much flack he gets for Kwame who has managed to stick in the league. Can anyone name the GM that drafted Sam Bowie off the top of his head? Can anyone even name the GM that drafted Oden? Does Joe Dumars get this kind of crap for Darko? I'm just saying...

An epic failure as a human? I have to vehemently disagree for all sorts of reasons that probably don't matter to you. Now excuse me while I go look through Kobe's laundry basket...

[SupaDave]

It only took one training camp for the Wiz to realize the steep slope Kwame Brown faced. He couldn't get anything straight on either offense or defense. Probably came out of a high school (Hilton Head area) where the level of coaching was really uninspired. I think evaluating a player mentally is part of the process, and Jordan totally missed it.

sagegrouse

You got this right. Kwame didn't even know how to cook, wash his own clothes, and many other menial tasks. I read an article on this years ago - Kwame was staying by himself and throwing clothes away. He should thank his lucky stars for MJ - bc he WAS definitely getting drafted.

[Duvall]

It's amazing how much flack he gets for Kwame who has managed to stick in the league. Can anyone name the GM that drafted Sam Bowie off the top of his head? Can anyone even name the GM that drafted Oden? Does Joe Dumars get this kind of crap for Darko? I'm just saying...


Dumars doesn't get this kind of crap over the Darko pick because his tenure in Detroit has been remarkably successful on the whole. By contrast, Jordan's time in Washington was an embarrassing debacle on nearly every level. That matters.

[SupaDave]

Dumars doesn't get this kind of crap over the Darko pick because his tenure in Detroit has been remarkably successful on the whole. By contrast, Jordan's time in Washington was an embarrassing debacle on nearly every level. That matters.

Yes and the Pistons and the 'Bullets' have very different histories and owners. Do I even need to document the Clippers of the east? I fault Jordan for even dealing with the franchise but it was very slim pickings for ownership at the time.

[jimsumner]

This sounds a bit bitter to me. Not to get too deep in it but father and husband are not synonymous. MJ's kids have turned out pretty good considering the circumstances (even if Marcus and Jeff are the Paris and Nicole of basketball).

It's amazing how much flack he gets for Kwame who has managed to stick in the league. Can anyone name the GM that drafted Sam Bowie off the top of his head? Can anyone even name the GM that drafted Oden? Does Joe Dumars get this kind of crap for Darko? I'm just saying...



Bowie and Oden were great prospects who suffered catastrophic, career-impacting injuries.

Brown was just a bad pick.

As was Darko. But Joe Dumars is held in pretty high regard in the NBA community and that kind of good will can buy you a mulligan or two.

[CEF1959]

I don't think those statements regarding Bowie and Oden are consistent with the facts, nor do they address SupaDave's questions.

The GM who drafted Sam Bowie was Stu Inman, who decided to overlook Sam Bowie's surgically-repaired shin, which had kept Bowie out for 2 years at Kentucky.

The GM who drafted Greg Oden was Kevin Pritchard, new to the job. He overlooked a poor pre-draft workout and the fact that Oden's pre-draft medical evaluation from the pre-draft camp in Orlando had been flagged.

These aren't guys who suddenly and unexpectedly suffered catastrophic injuries. They weren't "great prospects" so much as "risky bets."

[Kdogg]

The GM who drafted Sam Bowie was Stu Inman, who decided to overlook Sam Bowie's surgically-repaired shin, which had kept Bowie out for 2 years at Kentucky.


Why is the Sam Bowie pick always discussed in a vaccum? Portland didn't need a two guard. They already had a pretty good player in Clyde Drexler.

[slower]

An epic failure as a human? I have to vehemently disagree for all sorts of reasons that probably don't matter to you. Now excuse me while I go look through Kobe's laundry basket...

Your defense of Jordan is to compare him to Kobe? Good Lord.

Look, I told you that I'm not a jock-sniffer, so I don't idolize ANY athlete (with the exception of Arthur Ashe, for reasons almost completely non-athletic).

Perhaps "epic failure as a human" is too strong. Let's just leave it at "failure as a human". Unless you care to share your extenuating circumstances.

[jimsumner]

I don't think those statements regarding Bowie and Oden are consistent with the facts, nor do they address SupaDave's questions.

The GM who drafted Sam Bowie was Stu Inman, who decided to overlook Sam Bowie's surgically-repaired shin, which had kept Bowie out for 2 years at Kentucky.

The GM who drafted Greg Oden was Kevin Pritchard, new to the job. He overlooked a poor pre-draft workout and the fact that Oden's pre-draft medical evaluation from the pre-draft camp in Orlando had been flagged.

These aren't guys who suddenly and unexpectedly suffered catastrophic injuries. They weren't "great prospects" so much as "risky bets."


Sam Bowie and Greg Oden were both collegiate All-Americans, with a proven track record playing against high-level competition. Had they not been picked where they were, they would almost certainly been picked no more than a pick or two later.

Kwame Brown was a high school player. From Brunswick, Georgia. With no proven track record against high-level competition.

Hence the difference.

Even with the injuries, Sam Bowie played in over 500 NBA games and averaged 10.9 points and 7.5 rebounds per game.

Despite remaining relatively healthy, Brown went into this season having averaged 6.7 points and 5.4 rebounds for 510 games. So, even with the injuries, Bowie was a more productive NBA player than the healthy Brown.

Hindsight is 20-20. But Bowie and Oden were both regarded as top prospects at the time of their selection. Brown was considered a much riskier proposition.

[CEF1959]

Sam Bowie and Greg Oden were both collegiate All-Americans, with a proven track record playing against high-level competition. Had they not been picked where they were, they would almost certainly been picked no more than a pick or two later.

Kwame Brown was a high school player. From Brunswick, Georgia. With no proven track record against high-level competition.

Hence the difference.

Even with the injuries, Sam Bowie played in over 500 NBA games and averaged 10.9 points and 7.5 rebounds per game.

Despite remaining relatively healthy, Brown went into this season having averaged 6.7 points and 5.4 rebounds for 510 games. So, even with the injuries, Bowie was a more productive NBA player than the healthy Brown.

Hindsight is 20-20. But Bowie and Oden were both regarded as top prospects at the time of their selection. Brown was considered a much riskier proposition.

Tell the Portland Trail Blazers and their fans about how great Bowie and Oden are. I lived through both drafts, and we Portland fans did Homer head slaps on both choices (Bowie over Michael Jordan; Oden over Kevin Durant). We were stunned. They were high risk choices based on medical histories, and it didn't require hindsight to see it.

[CEF1959]

Why is the Sam Bowie pick always discussed in a vaccum? Portland didn't need a two guard. They already had a pretty good player in Clyde Drexler.

They didn't need a chronically-injuried big man with surgically-repaired shins either, but that's what they chose.

If someone offers you a choice between a new Mercedes S-class and a used Ford pickup with issues, you don't take the pickup just because you already have a sedan.

[jimsumner]

Tell the Portland Trail Blazers and their fans about how great Bowie and Oden are. I lived through both drafts, and we Portland fans did Homer head slaps on both choices (Bowie over Michael Jordan; Oden over Kevin Durant). We were stunned. They were high risk choices based on medical histories, and it didn't require hindsight to see it.

No one said either turned out to be a great player. The point at hand is how controversial their selections were at the time they were selected.

Had Portland not picked Oden number one, then he would have been picked number two. Had Portland not picked Bowie number two, he would have been picked number three.

Neither pick was regarded as especially controversial at the time. Both were consensus picks.

If you really want a bad Portland pick, try 1972 when the Blazers picked LaRue Martin number one when Robert McAdoo was available. Now that was a whopper.

[CEF1959]

No one said either turned out to be a great player. The point at hand is how controversial their selections were at the time they were selected.

Had Portland not picked Oden number one, then he would have been picked number two. Had Portland not picked Bowie number two, he would have been picked number three.

Neither pick was regarded as especially controversial at the time. Both were consensus picks.

If you really want a bad Portland pick, try 1972 when the Blazers picked LaRue Martin number one when Robert McAdoo was available. Now that was a whopper.

1. Neither Bowie nor Oden was a "consensus" pick. Maybe among state workers in North Carolina who weren't paying close attention, but not among those of us who cared. They were both VERY controversial damaged-goods picks, and we Blazer fans who were following the drafts closely just shook our heads in disbelief. At the time, not in hindsight.

2. LaRue Martin was a horrible pick too, no question. He was chosen not only above McAdoo, but above Julius Erving (oops!). The Blazers were enamored of the fact that Martin had totally schooled Bill Walton in their match-up in 70 or 71 (I forget which). So they locked in on him.

[NSDukeFan]

1. Neither Bowie nor Oden was a "consensus" pick. Maybe among state workers in North Carolina who weren't paying close attention, but not among those of us who cared. They were both VERY controversial damaged-goods picks, and we Blazer fans who were following the drafts closely just shook our heads in disbelief. At the time, not in hindsight.

2. LaRue Martin was a horrible pick too, no question. He was chosen not only above McAdoo, but above Julius Erving (oops!). The Blazers were enamored of the fact that Martin had totally schooled Bill Walton in their match-up in 70 or 71 (I forget which). So they locked in on him.

I am not a state worker from North Carolina, but wonder if I was, how that would negatively affect my knowledge of NBA draft prospects. I would be interested to see any kind of a link to anyone's opinion that Oden should not have been one of the first two picks in his draft. My recollection was that there was a definite debate for #1 vs. #2, but there was no debate that either Durant or Oden would drop past #2. Even looking in retrospect, I believe more posters would have chosen Oden over Durant in the informal thread posted this year after Oden's most recent injury was highlighted. http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?23102-Oden-s-end&highlight=oden+vs.+durant

You (and those who cared?) are more knowledgeable than most of the posters here (and obviously than me as I thought Oden would be a great pro and still hope that he can recover and has a solid career) and most NBA GMs and other analysts, but I don't think there are that many of you who had that knowledge before the draft.

I don't remember the Bowie pick nearly as well, but my understanding was that he was an outstanding center prospect in a league dominated by centers, though many would have chosen Jordan ahead of him.

[CEF1959]

The GMs were high on Kwame Brown in 2001 too. So maybe that's not the best indicator of smarts in drafting.

I don't know about Brown, but all the warning signs were there for Oden and Bowie. Their problems were documented before the draft. And many of us who cared at the time screamed, "NO!!".

[mph]

This sounds a bit bitter to me. Not to get too deep in it but father and husband are not synonymous. MJ's kids have turned out pretty good considering the circumstances (even if Marcus and Jeff are the Paris and Nicole of basketball).

Not synonymous, but closely related. Let's also not forget that the circumstances under which Jordan's children were raised were of his own making. I'm in no position to judge Jordan's complete record as a father, but breaking the vow he made to their mother and teaching his sons to value their own sexual gratification above commitment to family is a serious blemish.

As for Jordan's role as a mentor, I'm reminded of his relationship with Tiger Woods and how he reportedly (http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2010/03/tiger-woodss-inconvenient-women.html) encouraged Woods' serial infidelity and gambling.


“When Tiger showed up in Vegas, he was always with Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley,” according to Las Vegas Review-Journal columnist Norm Clarke. Years earlier, however, John Merchant had warned Woods to avoid Jordan and Barkley, saying of Jordan, “Stay away from that [expletive], because he doesn’t have anything to offer to the [expletive] world in which he lives except playing basketball.” Merchant adds, “Are they his black role models? You’ve got to be kidding me.”

In the same Vanity Fair article Merchant, a former Woods adviser and attorney, tells the story of Jordan and Woods hanging out in a casino and competing for a woman who eventually became one of Woods' mistresses. If there's any truth to these reports, I wouldn't want Jordan mentoring my son in basketball or anything else.

[blazindw]

The reason why Joe D got a pass on Darko is because the Pistons won the title in Darko's first year. If we got Carmelo or Bosh or Wade, we don't have Prince or Rip Hamilton and we don't get Sheed via a midseason trade, and we likely don't win it all. That alone is why most Pistons fans were fine with drafting The Human Victory Cigar.