New "Big" "Ten" divisions

[rasputin]

They're called "Legends" (Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern)
and "Leaders" (Illinois, Indiana, The Ohio State University, Penn State, Purdue, Wisconsin)
I assume this is because the names "nausea" and "vomiting" were taken.

[tbyers11]

They're called "Legends" (Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern)
and "Leaders" (Illinois, Indiana, The Ohio State University, Penn State, Purdue, Wisconsin)
I assume this is because the names "nausea" and "vomiting" were taken.

I thought the new logo was bad

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSUHtLexJkl2sT-1syvhfaRBun16rrQzdxjEAy6EuTyO-30jq2m

and it is.

But those division names are just some kind of new and improved super awfulness

[throatybeard]

Congratulations, Big Ten, that's even dumber sounding than "Atlantic" and "Coastal."

[rasputin]

Congratulations, Big Ten, that's even dumber sounding than "Atlantic" and "Coastal."

Throaty, are you suggesting that they should have gone with "Big" and "Twelve"?

[juise]

Throaty, are you suggesting that they should have gone with "Big" and "Twelve"?

Nice. How about they change the conference name to "Big Dozen" with "Six" and "Half Dozen" divisions? When it's six in one and half a dozen in the other, the teams really can't complain about they got split up (a la Pac-12).

[Devilsfan]

How about using something like those intellectual cheers like "tar----heels" or "wolf----pack". Now those are creative intelligent sounding cheers, NOT! But at least most of their student bodies can remember them.

[Faustus]

I've also seen elsewhere someone suggesting the division names should have been "Slow" and "Boring." But I like Nausea and Vomiting mentioned above much better.

[Devilsfan]

Didn't one of those teams out run and beat Oregon last January?

[Faustus]

Let's not let actual fact get in the way of reputation.;)

[weezie]

they're called "legends"
and "leaders"
and lamers

[phaedrus]

Am I missing something with the new logo? The old logo had an embedded "11", sort of a cheeky reference to their own misnomer.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkkQ_-RjyJL5eBUbO902_rcNjLXYgHgLlBDiFloWHjg2aJs8FwtA

The new logo has a. . . one? Am I missing a hidden "two" somewhere? Or is it a reference to the oneness of the new Big 10?

[Duvall]

Am I missing something with the new logo? The old logo had an embedded "11", sort of a cheeky reference to their own misnomer.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkkQ_-RjyJL5eBUbO902_rcNjLXYgHgLlBDiFloWHjg2aJs8FwtA

The new logo has a. . . one? Am I missing a hidden "two" somewhere? Or is it a reference to the oneness of the new Big 10?

The new logo has a one...and a six.

http://www.philly2philly.com/sites/default/files/bigtennewlogo.jpg

[tommy]

The logo? Whatever. People will rarely see it and nobody will care about it or talk about it after . . . today.

The real laugher is the division naming. This is like some kind of bad joke. It's what you'd expect from some politically correct little league, where everyone gets to play equal minutes/innings or whatever, or maybe they don't keep score or standings, and everyone gets a trophy. And with all the new awards the Big 10 has created, it seems like just about everyone will in fact get a trophy.

The Griese-Brees QB award? Griese-Brees? I think I had a bad case of that one time down in Mexico . . .

[WiJoe]

Blech. Wonder how much the genius who came up with that garbage was paid.

[Bluedog]

Blech. Wonder how much the genius who came up with that garbage was paid.

Hopefully not as much as one of the top advertising firms in Scotland received for coming up with the revolutionary new slogan, "Welcome to Scotland." (They got paid £125k to replace the existing slogan "Scotland, the Best Small Country in the World". For full disclosure, that amount includes the manufacturing and design of the signs too).

To get back on topic, terrible names. For basketball, the "Leaders" are far better than the "Legends" with only MSU being a solid team in their division historically. While the other division has IL, IN, Ohio St, WI, and Purdue. I guess it doesn't really matter if it's lopsided for b-ball though....much like how the SEC is this year. SEC West is pathetic.

[Mike Corey]

To be honest, everyone in Ohio seems to be flummoxed about these choices, too.

The logo is an abomination; the league names are just obnoxious and ridiculous.

Oh well.

[uh_no]

the league names are just obnoxious and ridiculous.

Well then I guess they are a perfect fit!

[Greg_Newton]

That has got to be utterly humiliating for the entire conference.

I'm trying to think - has there ever been a division in a major athletics named with a plural noun ("legends") rather than an adjective ("western", "atlantic")?

[IrishDevil]

That has got to be utterly humiliating for the entire conference.

I'm trying to think - has there ever been a division in a major athletics named with a plural noun ("legends") rather than an adjective ("western", "atlantic")?

True, maybe they should switch to "legendary" and "leading," that would be loads better ;)

[phaedrus]

For basketball, the "Leaders" are far better than the "Legends" with only MSU being a solid team in their division historically. While the other division has IL, IN, Ohio St, WI, and Purdue. I guess it doesn't really matter if it's lopsided for b-ball though....much like how the SEC is this year. SEC West is pathetic.

There are no divisions in basketball. The divisions are only for football.

[hurleyfor3]

"Over"/"Rated"
"Too Cold"/"Too Flat"
"Miller"/"Miller Lite"

Plenty of better alternatives.

[uh_no]

"Over"/"Rated"
"Too Cold"/"Too Flat"
"Miller"/"Miller Lite"

Plenty of better alternatives.

"less filling"/"great taste"

[The Gordog]

"Over"/"Rated"
"Too Cold"/"Too Flat"
"Miller"/"Miller Lite"

Plenty of better alternatives.
Nice.

How about:
"South Canada"/"East Flyover"
or
"Can't Count"/"Still Can't"

[hurleyfor3]

"less filling"/"great taste"

Except "great taste" doesn't accurately describe the experience of watching Big Ten revenue sports. "Less filling" in the sense of unfulfilling, sure.

More seriously, here's a treatment from a logo/branding blog. The "G" is supposed to look like a zero, not a six, and the "Big" is supposed to stand on its own, so that "10" is incorporated into "Big". I kinda like this treatment, disregarding that the actual number of teams is now off by even more.

http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/ten_is_the_new_twelve.php#comments

[phaedrus]

More seriously, here's a treatment from a logo/branding blog. The "G" is supposed to look like a zero, not a six, and the "Big" is supposed to stand on its own, so that "10" is incorporated into "Big". I kinda like this treatment, disregarding that the actual number of teams is now off by even more.

http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/ten_is_the_new_twelve.php#comments

That makes a little more sense. It's much more clear when you're talking about this version of the logo:

http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/big10_logo_detail.gif

[-jk]

I imagine any variant of their logo that incorporates a "twelve" will run afoul of intellectual property attorneys from that ten-team conference down the road.

-jk

[sagegrouse]

The Atlantic 10 has 14 teams, which outshines the Big Ten with 12 and leaves the Big 12 with 10 far behind.

sagegrouse

[Mike Corey]

Well then I guess they are a perfect fit!

How's that?

[BlueandWhite]

The Atlantic 10 has 14 teams, which outshines the Big Ten with 12 and leaves the Big 12 with 10 far behind.

sagegrouse

As for the names of two new Big "Ten" divisions: what a joke! Also, OSU and Michigan, and Wisconsin and Minnesota, in different divisions?? Give me a break.

Not sure whether it's been posted yet but here is Jim Delany's (Big Ten commissioner) explanation for this silliness:

"'Legends' is a nod to our history and to the people associated with our schools who are widely recognized as legends - student-athletes, coaches, alumni and faculty. 'Leaders' looks to the future as we remain committed to fostering leaders, the student-athletes who are encouraged to lead in their own way for the rest of their lives, in their families, in their communities and in their chosen professions," said Delany. "We're proud of our many legends and even prouder of our member institutions that develop future leaders every day."

How heartwarming.

Glad someone pointed out the stupidity that is the A-10(14). In case the chancellors/athletic directors of Dayton, St. Louis and Xavier hadn't noticed, their schools are located hundreds of miles from the Atlantic Ocean.

TCU's decision to join the Big East (and the conference's decision to accept them) is the one that really boggles the mind. Someone please explain this. The Big 12 wouldn't want to add TCU after Nebraska's departure, because.....?

[hurleyfor3]

The Big 12 wouldn't want to add TCU after Nebraska's departure, because.....?

The Big XII has plenty of exposure to TCU's market? The other Texas schools don't want them?

[arnie]

For the ACC - I like what I heard on radio today: "Wait till next year" division and "Wait till Basketball Season" division.

[mikegismynewhero]

hey now..nebraska isnt a slow team..they will bring excitement to the stagnant legends division...living in nebraska i can tell you...no one likes the division names here either

[mgtr]

According to Webster's, one definition of "legend" is "a popular myth of recent origin." Seems to fit.

[Mal]

Just as I'm sure Big Twelven bigwigs found the question of what to call their divisions an arduous task, and spent literally seconds contemplating it, I'm having a hard time coming up with words that can properly express how embarassing these names are. "Colossally lame" and "cringeworthy" are all the further I can go in terms of describing how uncool this is without resorting to 4-letter words.

Too bad they didn't stick with geographical distinction - they could have done Cows and Cars, or Farms and Factories.

If you can't use geographic indicators like North/South or East/West like everyone else can, why not ust name some famous commissioners from the past not overly associated with one school? If you need to be cheesy, maybe Great Lakes and Great Plains or something. That's not quite as embarrassing as the self-grandeur involved in "Legends."

[Bluedog]

Delany: Big Ten could revisit division names (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-bigten-divisions)

After massive negative public backlash, Big Ten commish says they may reconsider the names of the divisions after the first of the year. Says he wasn't expecting universal approval of the names, but getting almost universal non-approval was surprising to him.

[Stray Gator]

"Over"/"Rated"
"Too Cold"/"Too Flat"
"Miller"/"Miller Lite"

Plenty of better alternatives.

Yeah, too bad "Mary Kate" and "Ashley" were already taken...

(Credit to Chipola Gator over at Mudlizard's Virtual Swamp.)

[camion]

Delany: Big Ten could revisit division names (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-bigten-divisions)

After massive negative public backlash, Big Ten commish says they may reconsider the names of the divisions after the first of the year. Says he wasn't expecting universal approval of the names, but getting almost universal non-approval was surprising to him.

Was anyone else surprised?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Beuller?



I am suspecting that Delaney and the advertising consultant are the only ones shocked by this turn of events.:eek:

[brevity]

I unearthed this thread because the Big Ten will re-realign to East and West divisions once Maryland and Rutgers begin play:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9191768/big-ten-conference-realign-teams-replace-division-names-east-west-sources-say

Pertinent quote: "Just take a ruler and a map [and split the 14 teams]," a source said.

Geography is sacred, and I am often at odds with college sports conferences for failing to acknowledge that. However, lost in the shuffle of the Legends/Leaders disaster is just how unbalanced the Big Ten becomes when you make this most logical separation.

EAST: Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
WEST: Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Purdue, Wisconsin

From what I can tell, the divisions are for football and do not apply to basketball. Otherwise we'd all be cheering Chris Collins' newfound good fortune.

[wilko]

"less filling"/"great taste"
poached/scrambled

[matt1]

With the new divisions, Nebraska should win the West every year (football).

[Buckeye Devil]

I unearthed this thread because the Big Ten will re-realign to East and West divisions once Maryland and Rutgers begin play:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9191768/big-ten-conference-realign-teams-replace-division-names-east-west-sources-say

Pertinent quote: "Just take a ruler and a map [and split the 14 teams]," a source said.

Geography is sacred, and I am often at odds with college sports conferences for failing to acknowledge that. However, lost in the shuffle of the Legends/Leaders disaster is just how unbalanced the Big Ten becomes when you make this most logical separation.

EAST: Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
WEST: Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Purdue, Wisconsin

From what I can tell, the divisions are for football and do not apply to basketball. Otherwise we'd all be cheering Chris Collins' newfound good fortune.

The league has absolutely no idea how to create competitive balance in football and it would be even worse if the divisions applied to basketball. The west is laughable at best. If OSU, MSU, or UM has a crossover game with Wisconsin or Nebraska, it makes it worse for those teams. But it is difficult to imagine that the schedule for the west Big 2 won't include matchups with the better teams in the east.

This is the price the league will pay for not sticking with teams in the central part of the U.S. Personally, I would have preferred Missouri in the league-a respectable football, basketball, and academic school-and Kansas, a traditional basketball powerhouse with a mystique filled arena. Nothing against Rutgers or Maryland but they were grafted in for pure exposure purposes.

[hurleyfor3]

Geography is sacred, and I am often at odds with college sports conferences for failing to acknowledge that.

So is the set of positive integers, but that ship sailed a long time ago too.

[Deslok]

So is the set of positive integers, but that ship sailed a long time ago too.

Well, aren't you just the nattering nabob of negativity. Or were you just trying to be rational? I don't know, but be real, most folks don't really see the whole picture and just try to make imaginary points about this whole conference business, its just not natural, but all the conference should have stayed whole.

Sorry, couldn't resist the math jokes.

[ForkFondler]

The league has absolutely no idea how to create competitive balance in football and it would be even worse if the divisions applied to basketball. The west is laughable at best. If OSU, MSU, or UM has a crossover game with Wisconsin or Nebraska, it makes it worse for those teams. But it is difficult to imagine that the schedule for the west Big 2 won't include matchups with the better teams in the east.

This is the price the league will pay for not sticking with teams in the central part of the U.S. Personally, I would have preferred Missouri in the league-a respectable football, basketball, and academic school-and Kansas, a traditional basketball powerhouse with a mystique filled arena. Nothing against Rutgers or Maryland but they were grafted in for pure exposure purposes.

Actually, Rutgers and Maryland makes sense now. The B1G needed some weaker eastern teams to balance the weakness of the western teams. But, passing on Missouri is hard to figure -- AAU and cable boxes in two major cites.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, aren't you just the nattering nabob of negativity. Or were you just trying to be rational? I don't know, but be real, most folks don't really see the whole picture and just try to make imaginary points about this whole conference business, its just not natural, but all the conference should have stayed whole.

Sorry, couldn't resist the math jokes.

Ladies and gentleman, THAT is how you post in the off-season. With posts like this, the next seven months will fly by.

Well done, my friend.

As far as divisions go... I guess the only level of interest conceivable on this board is that a soon-to-be-former ACC member will be competing with these squads in a sport other than basketball two seasons from now. Personally, I stopped listening about five minutes ago.

Go Duke!

[Here is a Turtle]

I unearthed this thread because the Big Ten will re-realign to East and West divisions once Maryland and Rutgers begin play:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9191768/big-ten-conference-realign-teams-replace-division-names-east-west-sources-say

Pertinent quote: "Just take a ruler and a map [and split the 14 teams]," a source said.

Geography is sacred, and I am often at odds with college sports conferences for failing to acknowledge that. However, lost in the shuffle of the Legends/Leaders disaster is just how unbalanced the Big Ten becomes when you make this most logical separation.

EAST: Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
WEST: Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Purdue, Wisconsin

From what I can tell, the divisions are for football and do not apply to basketball. Otherwise we'd all be cheering Chris Collins' newfound good fortune.

I guess all this talk keeping Ohio State and Michigan in two separate divisions is just that, talk.
Move Michigan and Michigan state over west and Illinois and Purdue east and they're a lot more even.

[BD80]

... Move Michigan and Michigan state over west ...

To hear wolverines tell it via their fight song, they's already "champions of the west"

[Mal]

One good thing for Ohio State and Michigan in this is that they get to play annually without the threat of playing two weeks in a row if they make it to the conference championship game. If they'd been in separate divisions they'd either need a protected rivalry game with that threat of playing twice, or they'd have the possibility of not playing each other some years.

I think the bigger issue from a competitiveness standpoint isn't going to be a complete lack of good teams in the West and just a cakewalk to the title game every year for Nebraska. It'll be that the West comprises most of the middle of the conference and the East the top tier and the basement. I firmly believe that Maryland and Rutgers are going to both fall to the bottom of their new conference, and having to play Michigan, Ohio State and Michigan State every season isn't going to help matters. They're joined by Indiana, which has clearly been the weakest B1G team of the last two decades. Minnesota, Illinois, Purdue, Iowa have all had good times before and have the capability of returning to good times. They'll never challenge the powers that be, but they're a threat to break into the second tier and stay there for awhile, and Wisconsin could knock Nebraska down in any given season recently. I just don't see a sustained notch or two above mediocrity as quite as likely for IU, Maryland and Rutgers. This will create (a) a warzone scenario in the West, where multiple teams struggle to differentiate themselves from each other, and (b) three easy wins every year for the powers in the East, perpetuating the perception that the East is even stronger, relative to the West, than it actually is.

As a former Minnesotan, however, I love this. The Little Brown Jug hasn't been competitive for decades, so losing that, while retaining annual games with Iowa and Wisconsin, having a geographically logical structure, ditching the "Leaders" and "Legends" idiocy, and getting to play football in the weaker half of the conference, works just fine for me. Hopefully the timing works well for Minnesota, too, as Iowa seems to be backsliding with Ferentz, Purdue's sort of stuck in place, Wisconsin's unexpectedly had to get a new coach, Illinois is at rock bottom, and the Gophers seem to be on an upward trajectory in year 3 of a new coaching regime.

[blazindw]

One good thing for Ohio State and Michigan in this is that they get to play annually without the threat of playing two weeks in a row if they make it to the conference championship game. If they'd been in separate divisions they'd either need a protected rivalry game with that threat of playing twice, or they'd have the possibility of not playing each other some years.

I think the bigger issue from a competitiveness standpoint isn't going to be a complete lack of good teams in the West and just a cakewalk to the title game every year for Nebraska. It'll be that the West comprises most of the middle of the conference and the East the top tier and the basement. I firmly believe that Maryland and Rutgers are going to both fall to the bottom of their new conference, and having to play Michigan, Ohio State and Michigan State every season isn't going to help matters. They're joined by Indiana, which has clearly been the weakest B1G team of the last two decades. Minnesota, Illinois, Purdue, Iowa have all had good times before and have the capability of returning to good times. They'll never challenge the powers that be, but they're a threat to break into the second tier and stay there for awhile, and Wisconsin could knock Nebraska down in any given season recently. I just don't see a sustained notch or two above mediocrity as quite as likely for IU, Maryland and Rutgers. This will create (a) a warzone scenario in the West, where multiple teams struggle to differentiate themselves from each other, and (b) three easy wins every year for the powers in the East, perpetuating the perception that the East is even stronger, relative to the West, than it actually is.

As a former Minnesotan, however, I love this. The Little Brown Jug hasn't been competitive for decades, so losing that, while retaining annual games with Iowa and Wisconsin, having a geographically logical structure, ditching the "Leaders" and "Legends" idiocy, and getting to play football in the weaker half of the conference, works just fine for me. Hopefully the timing works well for Minnesota, too, as Iowa seems to be backsliding with Ferentz, Purdue's sort of stuck in place, Wisconsin's unexpectedly had to get a new coach, Illinois is at rock bottom, and the Gophers seem to be on an upward trajectory in year 3 of a new coaching regime.

As a Michigan fan, I'm sad that the Little Brown Jug is not going to be every year (and not because it was fun for the Wolverines most of the past decade). It's one of the oldest trophies in college football. But, I do think that not playing every year could up its importance between the two fan bases going forward.

And I'm sure Mike Corey can speak to this on the other side, but IMO The Game should only be played once a year. I hated Michigan and Ohio being in separate divisions...it had the potential to make The Game less important when played twice. Now, The Game can continue to be the last week of the regular season and the two teams can potentially play for division titles and not worry that those bragging rights could only last a week. East/West is pretty lopsided in football, but it works better than Leaders and Legends did.

[blazindw]

One good thing for Ohio State and Michigan in this is that they get to play annually without the threat of playing two weeks in a row if they make it to the conference championship game. If they'd been in separate divisions they'd either need a protected rivalry game with that threat of playing twice, or they'd have the possibility of not playing each other some years.

I think the bigger issue from a competitiveness standpoint isn't going to be a complete lack of good teams in the West and just a cakewalk to the title game every year for Nebraska. It'll be that the West comprises most of the middle of the conference and the East the top tier and the basement. I firmly believe that Maryland and Rutgers are going to both fall to the bottom of their new conference, and having to play Michigan, Ohio State and Michigan State every season isn't going to help matters. They're joined by Indiana, which has clearly been the weakest B1G team of the last two decades. Minnesota, Illinois, Purdue, Iowa have all had good times before and have the capability of returning to good times. They'll never challenge the powers that be, but they're a threat to break into the second tier and stay there for awhile, and Wisconsin could knock Nebraska down in any given season recently. I just don't see a sustained notch or two above mediocrity as quite as likely for IU, Maryland and Rutgers. This will create (a) a warzone scenario in the West, where multiple teams struggle to differentiate themselves from each other, and (b) three easy wins every year for the powers in the East, perpetuating the perception that the East is even stronger, relative to the West, than it actually is.

As a former Minnesotan, however, I love this. The Little Brown Jug hasn't been competitive for decades, so losing that, while retaining annual games with Iowa and Wisconsin, having a geographically logical structure, ditching the "Leaders" and "Legends" idiocy, and getting to play football in the weaker half of the conference, works just fine for me. Hopefully the timing works well for Minnesota, too, as Iowa seems to be backsliding with Ferentz, Purdue's sort of stuck in place, Wisconsin's unexpectedly had to get a new coach, Illinois is at rock bottom, and the Gophers seem to be on an upward trajectory in year 3 of a new coaching regime.

As a Michigan fan, I'm sad that the Little Brown Jug is not going to be every year (and not because it was fun for the Wolverines most of the past decade). It's one of the oldest trophies in college football. But, I do think that not playing every year could up its importance between the two fan bases going forward.

And I'm sure Mike Corey can speak to this on the other side, but IMO The Game should only be played once a year. I hated Michigan and Ohio being in separate divisions...it had the potential to make The Game less important when played twice. Now, The Game can continue to be the last week of the regular season and the two teams can potentially play for division titles and not worry that those bragging rights could only last a week. Michigan and MSU are also protected by being in the same division and most of the other rivalries of the B1G are protected, the lone exception being IU/Purdue. East/West is pretty lopsided in football, but it works better than Leaders and Legends did.

[Mal]

it was fun for the Wolverines most of the past decade

Agreed with your sentiment, although I'd substitute "half century" for "decade" in the above. ;) Unfortunately, it's just not a legitimate rivalry today, despite the great history of the trophy itself and the first 75 years of contests. To put it in perspective, since the year in which the current season of Mad Men is set, Minnesota's held the Jug all of three times. Everyone in Minnesota still reveres Rickey Foggie and Chip Lohmiller for the upset at the Big House in 1986, and we've only won once since then, although there were some close calls at the end of the Glen Mason years, while Michigan was starting its downcycle. It's just equalled a guaranteed "L" for the Gophers for so long, that losing the annual playing of it has a silver lining so large it almost overwhelms the rest of the cloud.

[blazindw]

Agreed with your sentiment, although I'd substitute "half century" for "decade" in the above. ;) Unfortunately, it's just not a legitimate rivalry today, despite the great history of the trophy itself and the first 75 years of contests. To put it in perspective, since the year in which the current season of Mad Men is set, Minnesota's held the Jug all of three times. Everyone in Minnesota still reveres Rickey Foggie and Chip Lohmiller for the upset at the Big House in 1986, and we've only won once since then, although there were some close calls at the end of the Glen Mason years, while Michigan was starting its downcycle. It's just equalled a guaranteed "L" for the Gophers for so long, that losing the annual playing of it has a silver lining so large it almost overwhelms the rest of the cloud.

Very true. But among many Michigan fans, the LBJ is still a revered trophy, one we enjoy winning (almost) every year. Both teams have other trophies that are for more important rivalries though (Wisconsin for Minnesota, MSU for Michigan).

[Mike Corey]

And I'm sure Mike Corey can speak to this on the other side, but IMO The Game should only be played once a year.

I can't speak for all or most OSU alums, but I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment.

The rest of the conference has a lot of catching up to do with OSU and M*chigan, and The Game will remain the de facto championship in most seasons--no need for it to be duplicated and cheapened accordingly.

It will be interesting to see how long this lasts. The announcement out of ACC land re: its latest attempt to prevent additional programs from leaving the conference certainly would appear to dampen the Big Ten's purported desire to raid UNC/UVa, etc., from the league. But we'll see what happens.

Either way, glad to see the Bucks and Wolverines will still be able to duke it annually on the gridiron.

[Duvall]

The announcement out of ACC land re: its latest attempt to prevent additional programs from leaving the conference certainly would appear to dampen the Big Ten's purported desire to raid UNC/UVa, etc., from the league. But we'll see what happens.

It would seem that the bigger obstacle to any Big Ten desire to add more ACC teams would be the fact that no ACC team other than Maryland appears interested in leaving in the next fifteen years.

[Mal]

The rest of the conference has a lot of catching up to do with OSU and M*chigan, and The Game will remain the de facto championship in most seasons--no need for it to be duplicated and cheapened accordingly.

Insert obligatory note that in two seasons of the B1G Football Championship, neither Michigan nor Ohio State have yet to appear. ;) Undefeated seasons played under sanction duly noted, of course.

[-bdbd]

Very true. But among many Michigan fans, the LBJ is still a revered trophy, one we enjoy winning (almost) every year. Both teams have other trophies that are for more important rivalries though (Wisconsin for Minnesota, MSU for Michigan).

So, do the Michigan fans chant, "NOT OUR RIVALS!" or what?

As an ACC advocate, I have taken great pleasure in ribbing my Big10 friends, who have generally long lorded their "superior" football over me/us, that they have "improved" themselves by taking two of the lesser FB schools (historically) from the ACC and the Big East.

I will also take great pleasure in seeing MD go winless in their new conference in 1.5 years...
Being in the DC area, I hear many Terp fans expecting a PACKED HOUSE going forward as droves of Buckeye and Big Blue fans fill Byrd Stadium. Maybe so, but it'll be mostly empty by then end of the third quarter with the margins at 30+ over and over again. Ha!

[-bdbd]

It would seem that the bigger obstacle to any Big Ten desire to add more ACC teams would be the fact that no ACC team other than Maryland appears interested in leaving in the next fifteen years.

I saw John Feinstein's commentary regarding the "Grant of Rights" announcement on CSN last night. His sentiment was pretty direct: This won't stop anything. It'll just mean that the route to departing the ACC will simply have to run through a courtroom next time. Sigh. He's probably right, but I do suspect that very fact WILL discourage the activity some.

[Mal]

So, do the Michigan fans chant, "NOT OUR RIVALS!" or what?

Nah. That would just seem mean. They're aware that Minnesota fans are generally well aware of reality and where their program stacks in the hierarchy, and do not (a) spend an inordinate amount of time whining about how Michigan ignores them in their singular focus on Ohio State, or (b) riot on those rare occasions they manage to get the Jug out of Ann Arbor. Maryland fans, on the other hand, have deserved our ridicule, and need to be
put in their place. Even after they leave the ACC. ;)

I'd say Michigan State is a closer analogue to Maryland in terms of its relationship to Michigan than Minnesota is. It's more like Minnesota:Michigan::UVa:Duke.

[Here is a Turtle]

All I'm going to say about Maryland going winless in the Big Ten is this: if Vanderbilt can make headway in the SEC over a few years, Maryland can in the Big Ten.

[Duvall]

All I'm going to say about Maryland going winless in the Big Ten is this: if Vanderbilt can make headway in the SEC over a few years, Maryland can in the Big Ten.

Then again, Vanderbilt joined the SEC in 1932. It's been more than a few years...

[Here is a Turtle]

Then again, Vanderbilt joined the SEC in 1932. It's been more than a few years...

I meant when James Franklin left Maryland and took over at Vanderbilt three years ago. I should of specified. We should of took him instead of Edsall. Took Vanderbilt to two straight bowls.
-____-

If Vanderbilt can turn it around that quickly, Maryland can make a bowl in the Big Ten

[brevity]

In related news, the new 4-team playoff in college football will be called... the College Football Playoff.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9204021/college-football-playoff-expected-new-name-four-team-playoff-sources


"It will be simple," BCS executive director Bill Hancock said earlier this week. "It will not be cutesy. And it will be descriptive. I've seen too many people make mistakes by trying to be cutesy."

I posted to this thread because of the fairly obvious dig at the Big Ten's Legends and Leaders.

[Duvall]

I saw John Feinstein's commentary regarding the "Grant of Rights" announcement on CSN last night. His sentiment was pretty direct: This won't stop anything. It'll just mean that the route to departing the ACC will simply have to run through a courtroom next time. Sigh. He's probably right, but I do suspect that very fact WILL discourage the activity some.

Feinstein's just repeating the wishful thinking of his friends in College Park. Even assuming there's a chance that the grant of rights could be nullified in court, that still leaves a chance that the grant would *not* be found invalid. No school would agree to the grant if they were seriously considering leaving in the near term, or the medium term - the stakes of losing are just too high. It's true that the grant of rights won't "stop" any movement from the ACC, but only because it's now clear that there wasn't much movement to stop.

[YmoBeThere]

The rest of the conference has a lot of catching up to do with OSU and M*chigan, and The Game will remain the de facto championship in most seasons--no need for it to be duplicated and cheapened accordingly.

OSU and Michigan have a lot of catching up to do to the SEC...

[YmoBeThere]

I meant when James Franklin left Maryland and took over at Vanderbilt three years ago. I should of specified. We should of took him instead of Edsall. Took Vanderbilt to two straight bowls.
-____-

If Vanderbilt can turn it around that quickly, Maryland can make a bowl in the Big Ten

Yes, but as a Vandy alum I will say that while this year's bowl win was great, the opponent wasn't as challenging as I would have liked. We played four legitimate bowl teams(Northwestern, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida). We lost all 4 games. We were lucky in that we didn't get Alabama and Texas A&M from the West but got Auburn and Ole Miss. I'm not trying to knock our success(though I may be doing a good job of it), but the true test of progress is how you do against the perennial powers. We beat who we were supposed to beat, an excellent step forward. Now the hard part comes.

[Here is a Turtle]

Yes, but as a Vandy alum I will say that while this year's bowl win was great, the opponent wasn't as challenging as I would have liked. We played four legitimate bowl teams(Northwestern, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida). We lost all 4 games. We were lucky in that we didn't get Alabama and Texas A&M from the West but got Auburn and Ole Miss. I'm not trying to knock our success(though I may be doing a good job of it), but the true test of progress is how you do against the perennial powers. We beat who we were supposed to beat, an excellent step forward. Now the hard part comes.

That's true. Vandy's competition didn't set the world on fire but you have to admit that Franklin definitely has them in the right direction. Recruiting kids via helicopter. That's pretty cool. I would take a 9-4 ranked season and see if you can build on it. I think vandy goes 7-5 which, in the SEC, is not too bad. Nice job plunking NC State in the bowl though.

[Buckeye Devil]

OSU and Michigan have a lot of catching up to do to the SEC...

Everyone has a lot of catching up to do with the SEC, not just OSU and UM. They are closer than a lot of other teams to getting there. While I am biased being from Ohio (but close to Michigan), I dare say that OSU seems closer than UM at this point.

[Class of '94]

Feinstein's just repeating the wishful thinking of his friends in College Park. Even assuming there's a chance that the grant of rights could be nullified in court, that still leaves a chance that the grant would *not* be found invalid. No school would agree to the grant if they were seriously considering leaving in the near term, or the medium term - the stakes of losing are just too high. It's true that the grant of rights won't "stop" any movement from the ACC, but only because it's now clear that there wasn't much movement to stop.

The Grant of Rights is not the only thing holding the ACC strongly together, the reported bump in annual money per school effective next year to 20+ million as well as the prospect of an ACC Network channel have the league members genuinely excited. That said, it is amazing to me how Feinstein can be so negative about this. After all, if someone wants to challenge the ACC GOR; it leaves the B1G, BIG 12 and PAC 12 vulnerable as well (with only the B1G currently having the clear monetary advantage to potentially keep schools from leaving).

Just curious if Feinstein traded in his Duke degree for one from College Park. I didn't see the commentary but is Feinstein all pro MD and the BIG now?

[throatybeard]

To put it in perspective, since the year in which the current season of Mad Men is set, Minnesota's held the Jug all of three times.

Your ideas about measuring time are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Duvall]

Just curious if Feinstein traded in his Duke degree for one from College Park. I didn't see the commentary but is Feinstein all pro MD and the BIG now?

I think it's more a matter of resenting Duke and the ACC for failing to sufficiently acknowledge his obvious brilliance.

[ForkFondler]

Your ideas about measuring time are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Well, here's another installment. Chicago has seven B1G championships. Indiana has one in slightly over one hundred years. So, on the face of it, Indiana will need 600 years before they have as many B1G championship as Chicago. But since the championships per team has been reduced from 1/10 to 1/14, it's probably going to be more like 900 years. Unless more teams are added.

[throatybeard]

Well, here's another installment. Chicago has seven B1G championships. Indiana has one in slightly over one hundred years. So, on the face of it, Indiana will need 600 years before they have as many B1G championship as Chicago. But since the championships per team has been reduced from 1/10 to 1/14, it's probably going to be more like 900 years. Unless more teams are added.

How long will it be until the Cubs win a World Series?

[BD80]

How long will it be until the Cubs win a World Series?

Cuba will win the WS before the Cubs do

[ForkFondler]

How long will it be until the Cubs win a World Series?

Very long.

[hurleyfor3]

How long will it be until the Cubs win a World Series?

I think proton decay will happen first.

(If we run out of oil we can live like we did a couple centuries ago. If the sun gets too hot maybe we'll have the technology to move to another planet. But proton decay? We're COMPLETELY screwed.)

[roywhite]

Well, here's another installment. Chicago has seven B1G championships. Indiana has one in slightly over one hundred years. So, on the face of it, Indiana will need 600 years before they have as many B1G championship as Chicago. But since the championships per team has been reduced from 1/10 to 1/14, it's probably going to be more like 900 years. Unless more teams are added.

How long before Clemson wins the ACC Basketball Tournament?

Or beats UNC in Chapel Hill?

[Mal]

How long will it be until the Cubs win a World Series?

Approximately the time elapsed over the course of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

[tommy]

How long will it be until the Cubs win a World Series?


I think proton decay will happen first.

(If we run out of oil we can live like we did a couple centuries ago. If the sun gets too hot maybe we'll have the technology to move to another planet. But proton decay? We're COMPLETELY screwed.)

Well, as everyone knows, protons have never actually been observed to decay.

A proton cannot decay into a lighter baryon (a particle made up of three valence quarks, like a neutron). It must decay into something else, such as a pion and a positron and an electron-type neutrino. Duh! The lower limit on the proton lifetime is 1.6 x 10 to the 25th power years, allowing any combination of decay possibilities, and typically around 10 to the 31st power to 10 to the 33rd power years for any decay mode by itself. The reason for this discrepancy is that if protons decayed by a variety of different mechanisms, and lots of experiments are done looking for each one separately, we will be less sensitive than if protons all decayed the same way.

Again, any dolt knows that you don't necessarily need to wait 10 to the 33rd power years for protons to decay. All you need is 10 to the 33rd power protons and watch them for a year. I'm up for that!

Ah, from "Legends and Leaders" to quarks and neutrinos, all in one short thread. Only on DBR! :D

[hurleyfor3]

Again, any dolt knows that you don't necessarily need to wait 10 to the 33rd power years for protons to decay.

But my point is you DO need to wait that long for the Cubs to win the World Series. And although protons may not be decaying right now, the value of our Cubs season tickets indisputably is.

[ForkFondler]

But my point is you DO need to wait that long for the Cubs to win the World Series. And although protons may not be decaying right now, the value of our Cubs season tickets indisputably is.

Yes, but with 10 to the 33rd power Cubs, it would happen this year. So, you just need to buy more tickets.

[hurleyfor3]

Yes, but with 10 to the 33rd power Cubs, it would happen this year. So, you just need to buy more tickets.

Yeah, I don't have 10^37 dollars though, so I'm kind of stuck in the current reality. Maybe a gamma ray burst will help turn things around. I know, pole reversal! That would literally turn things around!

[94duke]

Yeah, I don't have 10^37 dollars though, so I'm kind of stuck in the current reality. Maybe a gamma ray burst will help turn things around. I know, pole reversal! That would literally turn things around!

Total protonic reversal.

Don't cross the streams!!!

:p