MBB: Duke 84, St. Louis 47 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[deezl]

Nice to see the young fellas pick up the slack while Toegate is going on. Good job Mr. Hairston.

[Jackson]

Great to see Josh step up. The silver lining to Kyrie being injured is opening up the chance for others to play. Does anyone know why Mason didn't get many minutes today? He seemed active when he was in there.

[NashvilleDevil]

We played Bradley again?

[roywhite]

Glad to see Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston get some playing time.

I like Hairston's ability to catch the ball and shoot from 6 to 12 feet, often along the baseline. Has a good looking turn-around jumper.

[Bob Green]

The upperclassmen led the way today. Smith, Singler and Miles Plumlee all had very solid games. It was nice to see Hairston and Thornton play major minutes. Not the game I expected to see from Andre Dawkins, 1-2 for two points, after his 28 points explosion last game. Dawkins did not attempt a single 3-pointer today.

Now we have to suffer through nine days before the next game while the guys take their exams.

[dukeblue1206]

Great to see Josh step up. The silver lining to Kyrie being injured is opening up the chance for others to play. Does anyone know why Mason didn't get many minutes today? He seemed active when he was in there.

My as to why Mason did not play much in the second half is because he made two bad plays on the first 2 minutes or so of the 2nd half. A bad fade away post move and a bad, forced drive. After that he played maybe one minute and then was taken out. Also Josh played well in his place so ride the hand that is playing well.

[CDu]

Completely different feel today than the Bradley game. We really tried to attack in the paint (either off the dribble or dumping down to the bigs) rather than bombing 3s.

Smith definitely seems more comfortable as the 2-guard. He seems to struggle a bit creating for others. Unfortunately, without Irving and with Thornton possibly not ready for prime time yet, that leaves us with two guys who aren't suited for the position. Smith appears more comfortable creating for himself, while Curry seems better in the catch-and-shoot role. Luckily, we have enough weapons that we don't need either to play as a "prototypical" PG. We're still a really efficient offense either way.

It was nice to see Curry have a good shooting game again. Hopefully he gets his confidence back. It'd just be one more big weapon for us on the perimeter. Smith and Singler looked like the players they were late last year in terms of being fantastic scorers. And Hairston had a nice scoring game.

I was also very pleased with the play later in the game by Thornton. He made some really nice feeds to players for easy buckets. Hopefully we can see more of that from him in the time he gets out there.

Nice to be able to experiment with things and still win by nearly 40.

[hq2]

I'll kick this off.

They sure are a different team without Kyrie. Assuming K gave ‘dre a day off (“I know what you can do now, let me work on the other guys”.), it’s clear we need to do a lot of work to make the offense work. Without Kyrie, our bigs will have to develop a back to the basket post up game, which Kelly and Miles appear to be doing, because they’re not getting the easy feeds any more. Also, I noticed that there were almost no screens set for Andre or Seth, and there was too much one-on-one driving from Nolan and Kyle.
But Hairston showed he can do something. With ‘dre moving back into the backcourt rotation, Josh should get more minutes at 3. If he can continue to hit open mid range jumpers and free throws and play good D, he’ll be a factor.

[marinbobbyduhon]

The upperclassmen led the way today. Smith, Singler and Miles Plumlee all had very solid games. It was nice to see Hairston and Thornton play major minutes. Not the game I expected to see from Andre Dawkins, 1-2 for two points, after his 28 points explosion last game. Dawkins did not attempt a single 3-pointer today.

Now we have to suffer through nine days before the next game while the guys take their exams.

I think someone needs to move these comments for the St Louis game out of the Bradley post-game thread. It had me confused...

[SMO]

It's nice to still be adjusting to your most talented player being out and still look like the #1 team in the country. Great senior leadership, good depth, nice shooting. Only quibble is the FT%. This team is the best in the nation with or without Irving.

[Bluedog]

I thought Nolan did a great job running the point and managing the team. Had some nice floaters and just generally set the pace. We got off to a bit of a stagnant start the first 10 minutes or so, but it was nice to see us pick it up after that. I thought Kyle forced some shots in the first half and wasn't looking very good. Sometimes he tries to do too much I feel when not in good position. But he played much better in the second half, so that was good to see.

Glad to see Tyler and Hairston get involved. I really think they'll be solid players for us down the road. Hairston has a nice turnaround baseline jumper, even though it looks like he doesn't have much arc on his shot, but it goes down. I like it. He also shows some intensity and aggressiveness which is a positive, but led to him picking up some cheap fouls. It was interesting that most of the time when Nolan and TT were in at the same time, Nolan still brought up the ball and TT played off the ball. Didn't see all that much from TT on the offensive end this game, but his passing looks good and his tight defense is solid. I'm a fan.

It was also nice to see Curry hit some shots. His stroke looks silky smooth and hopefully this game boosts his confidence. When he's open, I feel like I do with Dawkins that it's always going in. Both of their shots are just things of beauty. Speaking of Dre, despite starting it didn't seem like he got many open looks, but he didn't force thing and only took two shots. At least, his length and athleticism on the defensive end is appreciated and definitely helped the perimeter defense.

Overall, despite a somewhat sluggish start, a solid game. St. Louis definitely doesn't have nearly the same talent level as us, but you could tell they were playing hard (especially in the first half) so that's always good to play against. Nolan controlled the tempo well and we shot solidly overall. It was good to see Curry and Hairston knock down some buckets and also Kelly had a good defensive effort with a few blocks.

[karmacoma]

I really liked the way we competed today. The half-court sets were a bit choppy to start, but improved signicantly as the game went on. Miles, Ryan, Seth and Josh made really valuable contributions -- not just in this game, but I think to their overall comfort and confidence going forward. Great to see them so heavily involved as we continue to adjust to a significantly more half-court oriented style of play w/o Kyrie.

With so many offensive weapons, it's easy to overlook our effectiveness on the defensive side of the ball. Our defense was just absolutly filthy in the first half. And our rebounding continues to be strong (albeit against a smaller team today). Great stuff.

This team is clearly not as dominant without Kyrie on the floor, but it's really, really good, and should get better. I couldn't be happier with a just-before-exams performance.

[Bob Green]

I think someone needs to move these comments for the St Louis game out of the Bradley post-game thread. It had me confused...

It was a typo in the thread title. I edited it and all is good.

[hq2]

They sure are a different team without Kyrie. Assuming K gave 'dre a day off ("I know what you can do now, let me work on the other guys".), it's clear we need to do a lot of work to make the offense work. Without Kyrie, our bigs will have to develop a back to the basket post up game, which Kelly and Miles appear to be doing, because they're not getting the easy feeds any more. Also, I noticed that there were almost no screens set for Andre or Seth, and there was too much one-on-one driving from Nolan and Kyle. But Hairston showed he can do something. With 'dre moving back into the backcourt rotation, Josh should get more minutes at 3. If he can continue to hit open mid range jumpers and free throws and play good D, he'll be a factor.

[CDu]

But Hairston showed he can do something. With ‘dre moving back into the backcourt rotation, Josh should get more minutes at 3. If he can continue to hit open mid range jumpers and free throws and play good D, he’ll be a factor.

I don't think Hairston will get any minutes at the 3. He played exclusively at the 4 today (as he has pretty much all year), and I think that's what he'll continue to do. I do agree that it was nice to see some offensive production from him.

As for the rest of the offense, it definitely seemed like the plan was to attack the basket more. I can't tell if that's in part because SLU made a more concerted effort to defend the 3pt line (Bradley most certainly seemed more okay with ignoring wide open perimeter shooters, to their detriment) or completely an experimental decision.

The defense was, again, very solid for most of the game. There were a few stretches (late first half, early second half) where we were sloppy with rotations, but otherwise we were again stout there.

[JBDuke]

We played Bradley again?


I think someone needs to move these comments for the St Louis game out of the Bradley post-game thread. It had me confused...

My bad. Stupid auto-fill...

Thanks, Bob, for the fix.

[jipops]

Only 9 turnovers as a team while forcing 22. You have got to like that. Nolan, Seth and Tyler did a terrific job handling the ball. And unlike against Bradley, which played zone the whole time, we looked inside a lot more and weren't depending largely on 3pt shots.

[Bob Green]

I don't think Hairston will get any minutes at the 3. He played exclusively at the 4 today (as he has pretty much all year), and I think that's what he'll continue to do. I do agree that it was nice to see some offensive production from him.


I agree with CDu. Hairston seems to be working his way into the front court rotation, but he is not going to see time at small forward. I was impressed with Hairston's tenacity on the court. He has a lot to improve on in a lot of different areas, but he definitely brings the energy when he steps onto the court.

[Duvall]

As for the rest of the offense, it definitely seemed like the plan was to attack the basket more. I can't tell if that's in part because SLU made a more concerted effort to defend the 3pt line (Bradley most certainly seemed more okay with ignoring wide open perimeter shooters, to their detriment) or completely an experimental decision.


Saint Louis is leading the country (http://kenpom.com/teamstats.php?s=RankF3GRate&od=d) in lowest percentage of opponent field goal attempts taken from 3-pt range. It's a big part of what they do.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I was pretty impressed with the guys today except for the first 5 minutes or so.

As already touched upon, I was impressed with Josh Hairston. He plays with a certain toughness and calmness at the same time. He wasn't hesitating when taking his 15 footers and showed the ability to knock them down. That is something that bothered me a bit with Lance Thomas, he was always a bit hesitant when shooting.

Tyler Thornton played well too, it was nice to see him get involved. He made some nice passes offensively and played tough D as well.

with Kyrie out, it is essential for our bigs to get involved on a consistent basis to keep us from getting to reliant on Kyle and Nolan and to a lesser extent Dre. I liked what I saw from Miles and Ryan. Not sure why Mason didn't play very much, but with such a big lead why not give Josh some PT especially when he is playing well. Im not too worried about that. But anyway, Miles played strong today almost having a double double. I think as long as we can stay smooth in our half court sets and Miles/Mason/Ryan can get some room to operate, they won't dissapoint.

So overall, good game. It was nice to see Seth knocking down some shots too. Seems like it was pre-determined by Coach K to get guys like Josh, Tyler, Seth, and Miles some extra PT to get them in sych with the offense because we will need them all the next month or 2.

[jipops]

Today was very encouraging if Josh is to become a viable rotation player. With a guard out, we are conceivably down to a 7 man rotation but if Josh can provide any sort of reliable production like he did today then that helps a bunch and relieves Kyle a bit. I'm not convinced of this, but today was encouraging.

[CEF1959]

What a great second-half team this is. Miles and RK are really stepping up. Haven't seen the stats yet, but I think Ryan had like 5 blocks, and Miles seemed to be everywhere (albeit against a smaller opponent). Sweet to see Josh getting PT and making some noise. Great for his confidence.

Seth and 'Dre are getting good minutes and building confidence, which I guess is the silver lining to the KI situation.

Anyone else concerned that the slow starts may bite this team later in a critical game in which they never recover? How many other teams will do us the favor of scoring so poorly in the first 7 minutes while we figure out how to attack their defense?

[bluepenguin]

Now we have to suffer through nine days before the next game while the guys take their exams.
It's been awhile since you were in school hasn't it? I suspect they will be suffering more than us as they have to take the finals! ;)

[WiJoe]

So, anybody have the PARTICULARS on why Coach K missed the radio postgame because of a family issue?

[diveonthefloor]

Only 9 turnovers as a team while forcing 22. You have got to like that. Nolan, Seth and Tyler did a terrific job handling the ball. And unlike against Bradley, which played zone the whole time, we looked inside a lot more and weren't depending largely on 3pt shots.

I particularly thought we showed the most poise and effectiveness on the possessions where Seth or Tyler were playing the point on offense. No big knock on Nolan, but my impression is that we may be most effective with Nolan remaining primarily at the 2-spot.

[mo.st.dukie]

Anyone else concerned that the slow starts may bite this team later in a critical game in which they never recover? How many other teams will do us the favor of scoring so poorly in the first 7 minutes while we figure out how to attack their defense?

It happened a lot last year, getting off to slow starts and being more of a second half team. It did cost us against NCSU and GTOWN, two teams who came out firing on all cylinders from the get-go and Duke just could never recover. In general though, it's better to be a 2nd half team than to get off to hot starts only to cool off/tighten up in the 2nd half (of course, ideally you'd want the team to play complete games but nobody's perfect).

[BattierBattalion]

I really like Tyler at the point and Nolan at the 2 guard. Tyler isn't as flashy or "wow" as Kyrie, but he's steady, makes the right play, doesn't care about his stats, and plays brilliant defense.

I would not mind seeing Tyler start and Nolan put to the 2 guard spot.

Also, Miles has stepped up his game against Bradley and Saint Louis. I think he'll have a breakout game similar to what Mason had against Marquette soon.

[Jderf]

I think Kedsy will agree with me on this: our free-throw defense took a serious dip in this game. ;) St Louis shot 8-10 from the charity stripe, and that is simply not acceptable. Hopefully Coach K gets these kids to regain their focus in the next week of practice.

[diveonthefloor]

Watching this game, and focusing on Josh Hairston, I couldn't stop myself reminiscing about Gene Banks.

In fact, a couple of times when I squinted at the TV screen, I thought I was watching Gene Banks.

Maybe we are witnessing the birth of "Tinkerbell II"?

[jv001]

I think Kedsy will agree with me on this: our free-throw defense took a serious dip in this game. ;) St Louis shot 8-10 from the charity stripe, and that is simply not acceptable. Hopefully Coach K gets these kids to regain their focus in the next week of practice.

the Crazzzzieeeeesssss will have to pick up their free throw defense. I agree that percentage is way too high. Go Duke!

[throatybeard]

Heck, who needs Kyrie when we have "Mike" Plumlee?

[Saratoga2]

This game was scappy and physical. Just about every shot was being contested and there was a lot of bumping. It seemed our experienced (and talented) senior leaderhip handled that kind of game well. They have experienced this kind of game many times in the past. Both Smith and Kyle showed how instrumental they can be. Miles also had a very solid game as this is his kind of play.

Dawkins was kind of passive on offense and his 3 point shot was being guarded. Coach K took him out fairly early in the first half and he sat out more than I expected. He had some nice minutes, but he I would like to see him be more aggressive going forward. I also thought Mason sort of disappeared in the first half, while Kelly stepped it up and played good defense. Not many points for him but I thought his defense and rebounding looked good.

Curry is getting his shooting touch back and found ways to score. It is nice to see him move ahead to what we expected from him early on. Hairston showed a nice midrange game and is not hesitant to put it up when open. No doubt that kind of play will earn him PT. Also, Thornton looked good handling the ball. It is comforting to know there is capable depth at the point position.

We should be okay until the first part of January without Kyrie. Would love to see him return after that, but if he can't the team still has to be in the mix for national champions.

[DukieInBrasil]

#1 - the co-PG of Seth and Nolan did just fine, with 11 assists between the two.
#2 - the re-emergence of Kyle, who had a nice all-around game
#3 - the recovery of Nolan Smith's shooting form, who recovered nicely from an 0-8 FG performance last time out.
#4 - Josh Hairston's career high scoring game

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

So, anybody have the PARTICULARS on why Coach K missed the radio postgame because of a family issue?

No answer for you, but I did notice that neither Mickie or Debbie were in their seats. I think Lindy was the only daughter there. Debbie's boys were there looking happy.

That's all the clues I have.
Love, Ima

[watzone]

Coach K had some family matters to attend to and Collins filled in. You can hear his post game comments in this post game link - http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/12/duke-defense-stymies-st-louis-for-84-47-win/ He was a natural.

[WiJoe]

No answer for you, but I did notice that neither Mickie or Debbie were in their seats. I think Lindy was the only daughter there. Debbie's boys were there looking happy.

That's all the clues I have.
Love, Ima

Thanks, Ima

(nice handle, by the way)

[hq2]

Watching this game, and focusing on Josh Hairston, I couldn't stop myself reminiscing about Gene Banks.

In fact, a couple of times when I squinted at the TV screen, I thought I was watching Gene Banks.

Maybe we are witnessing the birth of "Tinkerbell II"?

Ahem. Not quite. When he cocks the ball up and rams it in someone's face one handed, I'll believe it. I'd say closer to John Smith right now; but that would still be good enough.

[davekay1971]

Heck, who needs Kyrie when we have "Mike" Plumlee?

Another one?! With Mike, Miles, Mason, and Marshall, all we have to do is get Marvin and we've got a straight flush of Plums...

Sad I couldn't see the game, but thanks to all for the in-game and post-game comments to let me know what I missed. Seems like we're learning to effectively attack without Kyrie, and in the last two games got some good practice attacking, first, a soft zone, and then today man-to-man focusing on taking away our perimeter.

[diveonthefloor]

Ahem. Not quite. When he cocks the ball up and rams it in someone's face one handed, I'll believe it. I'd say closer to John Smith right now; but that would still be good enough.

Start at 1:09.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpd67PR3kg

[SuperTurkey]

Start at 1:09.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpd67PR3kg

FYI, you can paste a YouTube clip to start at the correct point, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpd67PR3kg&t=1m9s.

[Kedsy]

Assuming K gave ‘dre a day off (“I know what you can do now, let me work on the other guys”.)

This would surprise me if true. Why would K tell Andre not to play his hardest or tell the other guys not to give him the ball? More likely explanation is that St. Louis gears its defense toward stopping the three so Andre focused on playing defense (which he did pretty well). That said, K only played him 18 minutes, when he has been averaging 30+ in the past three games.


Also, I noticed that there were almost no screens set for Andre or Seth

I noticed this as well, and this fact may explain why Andre wasn't able to get open looks.


With ‘dre moving back into the backcourt rotation, Josh should get more minutes at 3. If he can continue to hit open mid range jumpers and free throws and play good D, he’ll be a factor.


I don't think Hairston will get any minutes at the 3. He played exclusively at the 4 today (as he has pretty much all year), and I think that's what he'll continue to do.

I agree with CDu; I don't think Josh played any at the 3 today and I doubt he'll play there much if any going forward.

Wherever he plays, I thought Josh was outstanding today, on both offense and defense. He was a dervish during that period in the first half when we forced all those turnovers.

Josh also has a great knack for the mid-range game, which is a rare quality these days, especially from a freshman. If he continues to hone it, he could bring another dimension to our offense, although my guess is he won't bring too much of an impact until next season.


The defense was, again, very solid for most of the game. There were a few stretches (late first half, early second half) where we were sloppy with rotations, but otherwise we were again stout there.

I agree, but I would go further and say that other than those two sloppy stretches our defense was outstanding. St. Louis is obviously not a top team, but for most of the game we absolutely dominated them on the defensive side of the ball.

Their leading scorer, Cassity, only was able to take one shot all game. I'm pretty sure it was Kyle guarding him most of the time, but I can't swear to that.


Only 9 turnovers as a team while forcing 22. You have got to like that. Nolan, Seth and Tyler did a terrific job handling the ball. And unlike against Bradley, which played zone the whole time, we looked inside a lot more and weren't depending largely on 3pt shots.

We all said without Kyrie we'd have to cut down on the turnovers, and I agree it's great to see we are, in fact, doing that. Tyler had 4 assists and zero turnovers, while Seth had 6 assists and 2 turnovers to go with his 11 points. Really happy to see Seth with such a strong game.

Nolan had 5 assists against 4 turnovers, but when we were mired in a sluggish first few minutes, he put the team on his back and single-handedly broke the game open. Dominated the game for five or so minutes, after which the contest was pretty much over. I was really impressed with that and thought he did a fine job running the team today.

I was thrilled to see Miles with his second straight very strong performance. Not sure if it's the competition level or if he's finally clicking, but I hope he keeps it up.

Ryan played another strong game, but besides from blocks it didn't really show up in the box score.

Weird to see Mason disappear like that, but he's been playing at a very high level so I'm not concerned. That said, we towered over St. Louis but only outrebounded them by 4.


I think Kedsy will agree with me on this: our free-throw defense took a serious dip in this game. ;) St Louis shot 8-10 from the charity stripe, and that is simply not acceptable. Hopefully Coach K gets these kids to regain their focus in the next week of practice.

Absolutely, I am very concerned. St. Louis came into the game shooting only 62.1% from the line (300th in the nation), yet they shredded our free throw defense. Quite disappointing.

I also thought it was funny that the announcers were going on and on about how difficult it was for St. Louis having only 9 scholarship players available and how young they were with 6 of their 9 being freshman and sophomores, without mentioning once that those numbers (9 scholarship players; 6 being freshman and sophomores) are exactly what Duke had as well.

Finally, I will update the big vs. small thread in the next few days, but whoever said Kyrie's injury would not affect how much we play the big lineup vs. the small lineup appears to have been incorrect, at least so far. In the games Kyrie played the small lineup averaged over 16 minutes a game. In the two games since, the small lineup is averaging just 4 minutes a game (just 3 minutes today). Maybe it's a coincidence due to the competition, but my guess is not.

[buddy]

I was at the game and tried to focus on individual players at various times. 'Dre appeared very passive on offense. He would flatten out in the corner, and just stand there. It's not hard to guard a guy who is standing still. After Wednesday, everyone in the country will be looking for #20 with D-A-W-K-I-N-S on the back of his shirt. I expect 'Dre learned today that it is as important to work for your shot without the ball as with it.

I thought Seth played quite well. In contrast to 'Dre, Seth was constantly moving on offense, where he created shots for himself and others. Did anyone notice that Seth basically took out two defenders before Nolan's drive and dunk in the first half? I agree that Kyle tried to do too much in the first half. Mason did not seem to be with the program. Miles and Ryan had much more energy.

Tough game in many respects--noon start, undermanned opponent, beginning of exams, adjusting to loss of Kyrie. I thought we played more half court today than normal, in that we didn't try to force the fast break. St. Louis played tough defense, but just didn't have the offensive firepower to contest the game.

Although we are ten games in, this is just the second game with our "new" offense, whatever that is. In that regard, we are behind other teams offensively, and behind where we were just last week. There are lots of opportunities available for players who want to take them. K always rewards effort, especially in practice. I expect to see some more tinkering with the starting five before we get this right, which we will. Now on to exams, revamping the offense, and getting into the season.

[lotusland]

I only got to watch the first half. Anyone know if a reply is available online?

I though Nolan played well from what I saw. I like that we killed Bradley from the perimeter when they committed to stopping our bigs and today we went inside against a team whose strenghth in shutting down 3-pointers. I also like that the voting for MOTM is spread so out between, Nolan, Seth, Miles and Josh today. Shows how talented Duke is as a team.

[hq2]

osh also has a great knack for the mid-range game, which is a rare quality these days, especially from a freshman. If he continues to hone it, he could bring another dimension to our offense, although my guess is he won't bring too much of an impact until next season.

Not to get picky about it guys, but that's what the 3 position is defined as, at least on offense. At any rate, we can all agree, whatever position he's at, that an ability to hit mid range jumpers at the forward position is a huge plus. With the rest of the players occupying defenses, Josh should get plenty of open looks in that range. This shows that he should be in the mix on the front line, 10-15 minutes per game.

And no, I don't think K gave 'dre the game off. This was a perimeter team that was concentrating on stopping jump shots. So the way K saw it, we needed to work on our inside game anyway, so he just told the players to concentrate on that. He could have run more plays for Andre and Seth; he just felt like, with Kyrie being out, they needed to get more work in the low post to see how some of the other players (Josh, Kelly) would respond with more minutes and more scoring opportunities. This game showed clearly that they need a lot more work before the inside offense becomes effective again, although they are improving; they know they can hit 3s already.

And yes, that was a nice video. It shows Josh can do it , but he still needs to try it in a game. That's a little harder.

[comdytrd]

what was the Devil's message? "faster than 100% of" ... what? i could never quite see it.
thanks

[Devilsfan]

Well Duke certainly hurt St. louis' 3 point defensive percentage today. What I got out of today's game is we actually have a point guard on the squad and he wears the #3 jersey not the #2 and Opponents take note Miles is back on the planet.

[CDu]

Not to get picky about it guys, but that's what the 3 position is defined as, at least on offense. At any rate, we can all agree, whatever position he's at, that an ability to hit mid range jumpers at the forward position is a huge plus. With the rest of the players occupying defenses, Josh should get plenty of open looks in that range. This shows that he should be in the mix on the front line, 10-15 minutes per game.

Well, at the risk of continuing a pointless discussion, hitting a couple of 12-15 foot jumpers from the post is not actually the definition of the 3 position (at least not the 3 as it has been played for the past 20 years or so).

As for this showing that he should be in the mix for playing time, I would say that his defense will as important if not more important factor in his playing time. But showing a consistent 12-15 foot jumpshots certainly won't hurt his cause.

I'm definitely hopeful he continues to show progress, especially as the level of competition increases. Having a fourth effective non-Singler big man would give us that much more versatility.

[Spam Filter]

I didn't get to watch the game.

But from all descriptions I have seen, St Louis never had the guy guarding Andre sag off him to help, and the credit should go to him for being mature enough to not force shots up.

Clearly we have other guys capable to getting it done, no need to worry about Andre's stats. Often knowing when not to shoot is just as important as knowing how to shoot.

[diveonthefloor]

FYI, you can paste a YouTube clip to start at the correct point, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpd67PR3kg&t=1m9s.

Thanks that is a great tip....never knew this before!! And who said these boards weren't educational??? :cool:

[devildeac]

I am shocked, simply shocked that no one has mentioned the fact that Rick Majerus tried to eat K during the handshakes after the game.








(jk)

[Delaware]

Watching this game, and focusing on Josh Hairston, I couldn't stop myself reminiscing about Gene Banks.

In fact, a couple of times when I squinted at the TV screen, I thought I was watching Gene Banks.

Maybe we are witnessing the birth of "Tinkerbell II"?



Ahem. Not quite. When he cocks the ball up and rams it in someone's face one handed, I'll believe it. I'd say closer to John Smith right now; but that would still be good enough.

I see a bit of Roshown McLeod actually.

[Lord Ash]

Any chance that the "family matter" Coach had to take care of was a "family matter" in somuch as it was "Chris Collins is like family, and we want him to get a chance to take a post-game press conference so folks can see what he would look like as a head coach?" :)

All kidding aside, I trust all is well!

[oldnavy]

Dre was having an animated discussion with nate right before half. I got the sense that he was angry about something. Not sure but he got very limited pt in second half. I think dre missed a defensive assignment and then argued about it..... may have gotten sat down for that?? Sorry for quality post but using phone.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I really like Tyler at the point and Nolan at the 2 guard. Tyler isn't as flashy or "wow" as Kyrie, but he's steady, makes the right play, doesn't care about his stats, and plays brilliant defense.

I would not mind seeing Tyler start and Nolan put to the 2 guard spot.

Also, Miles has stepped up his game against Bradley and Saint Louis. I think he'll have a breakout game similar to what Mason had against Marquette soon.
I agree, and wouldn't mind either. He impressed me (and the coaching staff) with what he did with his minutes today. Smart playing, fed the ball well. I'm pretty sure that would be the first time in history that Duke had two different freshmen start at the point if it were to happen.

[CDu]

Well Duke certainly hurt St. louis' 3 point defensive percentage today. What I got out of today's game is we actually have a point guard on the squad and he wears the #3 jersey not the #2 and Opponents take note Miles is back on the planet.

To be honest, I don't really remember Dawkins getting all that many touches, period. Certainly not in a shooting position. I feel like the possessions were handled predominantly by with Singler and Smith (or Curry or Thornton when those guys were at PG) and whatever big was being used in the high screen handoff game.

[Delaware]

Finally, I will update the big vs. small thread in the next few days, but whoever said Kyrie's injury would not affect how much we play the big lineup vs. the small lineup appears to have been incorrect, at least so far. In the games Kyrie played the small lineup averaged over 16 minutes a game. In the two games since, the small lineup is averaging just 4 minutes a game (just 3 minutes today). Maybe it's a coincidence due to the competition, but my guess is not.

I think the big vs. small thing can be summed up this way ..... Coach K plays the best players he has availalble.

With Kyrie, those players seemed to be KI, Nolan, Kyle, Dre and one of the Plumlees.... and they got more minutes. Without KI, it appears the there are a number of candidates for the 5 slot... one of the Plums, Seth, Kelly, Josh and TT. Whichever of those steps up and becomes great/dominant/etc. will drive how big or small we go in the future.

[Mcluhan]

Coach K had some family matters to attend to and Collins filled in. You can hear his post game comments in this post game link - http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/12/duke-defense-stymies-st-louis-for-84-47-win/ He was a natural.

Good post-game chat. It's uncanny to hear the verbal mannerisms Chris has adopted from K.

[Dr. Tina]

I really like Tyler at the point and Nolan at the 2 guard. Tyler isn't as flashy or "wow" as Kyrie, but he's steady, makes the right play, doesn't care about his stats, and plays brilliant defense.

I would not mind seeing Tyler start and Nolan put to the 2 guard spot.

Also, Miles has stepped up his game against Bradley and Saint Louis. I think he'll have a breakout game similar to what Mason had against Marquette soon.

I agree that Tyler handled the PG position rather well today. He brought the ball up most of the time in the 2nd half, and I felt more players got involved offensively when they had Tyler running the point. Thornton is also very defense minded. He hounded the St. Louis players and tripped them up, which resulted in some turnovers.

As for Nolan, I thought he spent the first half attacking the basket to get his game going. I think Nolan really is best in the 2 guard spot; he doesn't seem as comfortable distributing the ball. He's a scorer.

I was impressed with Josh Hairston. He had 4 fouls, but I think he scored in double figures and hit some nice shots. He also shot better from the line than most.

BTW - being in Cameron for a Duke game is AWESOME! SO MUCH FUN!

[dukebballcamper90-91]

#1 Mason had unc blue air jordans on, wtf?
# 2 andre was lost on d a few times but a lot of players were getting lost also. STL scored majority of their points of layups.
#3 andre should know arguing with coaching staff is very disrespectful and only makes him look bad
#4 josh should be first off bench, he brings great energy.
#5 kyle nor nolan should play that many mins when we are clearly beating the crap out of the other team.
#6 seth can shoot and that's bout it

[Devilfam]

We can't complain about how this team has reacted to the loss of Kyrie over the last two games, and I think our perimeter defense is strong. But it seems to me that --in both of those blowouts -- we nonetheless let lots of players get behind our defense for layups. Its been a few years since I feel like we have seen much of that (Lance, you spoiled us!), and I worry that if it happens with this level of competition, we need to be concerned when conference play starts.

[gam7]

#1 Mason had unc blue air jordans on, wtf?
# 2 andre was lost on d a few times but a lot of players were getting lost also. STL scored majority of their points of layups.
#3 andre should know arguing with coaching staff is very disrespectful and only makes him look bad
#4 josh should be first off bench, he brings great energy.
#5 kyle nor nolan should play that many mins when we are clearly beating the crap out of the other team.
#6 seth can shoot and that's bout it


#1 - Mason wore white shoes today.

#3 - Didn't see this. Could you tell what it was about?

#4 - I disagree. Come on now, really? He played well today, but you want him as our first person off the bench? I think he is right about where he should be on this team.

#5 - I disagree. Kyle played 33 minutes (his average is 31.3) and Nolan played 31 minutes (his average is 30.6), so not too out of sync with their averages. This is their last game for more than a week and everyone on the team is getting used to a new role without Kyrie. Kyle and Nolan need court time right now, regardless of the opponent.

#6 - I disagree. This seems like the wrong game to be making this observation about Seth. He had 6 assists and only 2 turnovers. He was more well-rounded today than he has been in any game all season.

[CDu]

We can't complain about how this team has reacted to the loss of Kyrie over the last two games, and I think our perimeter defense is strong. But it seems to me that --in both of those blowouts -- we nonetheless let lots of players get behind our defense for layups. Its been a few years since I feel like we have seen much of that (Lance, you spoiled us!), and I worry that if it happens with this level of competition, we need to be concerned when conference play starts.

That's the price we pay for applying a pressure defense. The tradeoff is that we force more turnovers with the pressure defense.

[RoyalBlue08]

I think this board could use a Duke loss. The negative critics of the teams play are beginning to get a little stale. I don't think anyone's heart is even in it anymore.

[basket1544]

My heart is definitely into it! I cannot wait for the next game so I can jump for joy throughout it. Will I miss Kyrie, yes. Am I going to bellyache about it, no! Loving the season and can't wait to see what this team does next.
Oh and Oklahoma won; Harvard won. Stanford didn't play but it was a pretty good day overall... don't ya think?

[Greg_Newton]

Little aside, Curry is really fun to watch on defense. His lateral quickness isn't great and he still breaks down sometimes, but he's got an uncanny nose for the ball - he gets his hands on it so often. It's clear that, like Steph, he has a really advanced understanding of "basketball movements". But while Steph seemed to be able to work every single angle and movement to create space on offense, Seth actually seems to show that more on defense. It's a lot of fun to just zone in on him and his man when he's in, and watch how exactly he reacts to each little movement and dribble.

He reminds me of a slower Ronald Nored right now. I think he'll be a very pesky on-ball defender by the time he leaves.

[Saratoga2]

Just reading the quote from coach Collins below gives a good idea of why Andre's offense was minimized today.

"Well I think the thing with Andre is, he’s now on everybody’s scouting report the way he’s played and the way he’s shot the ball. And I think with St. Louis, the way they play, they don’t help much. They don’t leave shooters, they stay home on guys. Really, Andre was doing a great job of spacing the floor, playing off penetration, getting open threes in transition, and that’s why he’s shooting such a good percentage. And I think now for him, he can continue to build as people chase him off that three point line. To be able to go off the dribble, one or two dribbles, get to the basket, find a way to get yourself to the free throw line. Different ways now where people find a way to take away what you do best. How can I still be productive offensively? And I think this will be a great teaching tape for him and we can continue to get him better. I mean you still forget, he should be a freshman. He’s still a very young player and he’s still getting better. I think today’s game will be a very good learning experience for him as we move forward and continue to see how we can get him more shots.”

In other words, Andre had his primary scoring option taken away from him today and should have looked for alternatives such a dribble drive, force the defender to foul and mid range jumpers, in order to be more effective. Varying his offense would make all parts of his offense more effective. Clearly they have something to work on with him between games.

[dukelifer]

I really like Tyler at the point and Nolan at the 2 guard. Tyler isn't as flashy or "wow" as Kyrie, but he's steady, makes the right play, doesn't care about his stats, and plays brilliant defense.

I would not mind seeing Tyler start and Nolan put to the 2 guard spot.

Also, Miles has stepped up his game against Bradley and Saint Louis. I think he'll have a breakout game similar to what Mason had against Marquette soon.
I said it in another thread- but he is the best passer and the offense flows better when you have someone who sees what is happening on the floor. Smith and Curry are much better scorers- but Thornton is a better floor leader. He should play more with the starters in the next couple of games. He could be very Amaker-like with Smith playing the Johnny Dawkins role.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I said it in another thread- but he is the best passer and the offense flows better when you have someone who sees what is happening on the floor. Smith and Curry are much better scorers- but Thornton is a better floor leader. He should play more with the starters in the next couple of games. He could be very Amaker-like with Smith playing the Johnny Dawkins role.
What I see right now keeping Thornton on the bench is Miles. He's making the most of his start, it's hard to argue to replace him with Tyler. I'd like to see the coaches try, but I also like having MP1 and MP2 in there.

[Kishiznit]

I was at the game today and below are a few of my observations:
- St Louis is a very physical team; if Majerus (sp) had more talent he would still be dangerous. Fundamentally sound, blocked out on every shot and several players ended up on the floor. This was good for our BIGS to get that kind of contact with (hopefully) no injuries.

- Miles Plumlee keeps improving. I love his intensity and he is very smooth with his left hand. A solid rebounder and loves to dunk. It's nice to see a BIG for us that can grab an offensive rebound and go straight up w/ a shot.

- Our defense is legit. Full court pressure is nice to see but I would still like to see more communication to our guards or they are going to get wiped out with a pick in the backcourt.

- A completely different team w/ out Kyrie. Reminds me a lot of last year's team and how did that end up?

-Andre and Mason received wake up calls today. Not sure what's going to happen during the next game but no chance either one starts. I saw / heard Coach K yell "Andre" at least 3 times on backdoor plays. I would give St Louis credit as they NEVER doubled down on the post...very few open shots from 3 point land. I specifically remember Coach K making a mockery of Mason's off balance shot to his left during a TO...this cannot be good.

- Tyler and Josh play well together and they are going to earn more minutes. Tyler is very impressive on the defensive side of the ball and made very nice passes to players cutting through the lane. I was surprised that Nolan still ran point for most of the game when Tyler was getting minutes.

- Very nice to see Seth get shots to fall. This kid is a scorer and we need to realize that Seth and Andre will have 20+ point games throughout the year as well as games they go 0-6 (hopefully not the same night!).

- Would not trade Kyle and Nolan for any players in the country. Strong leaders on the court and they play great together. Needed them bad early in the game w/ the pick and roll. Nolan's dunk in 1st half was huge.

Love this team and love how they work. Coach K is simply the best coach in sports. GO DUKE!

[Bob Green]

What I see right now keeping Thornton on the bench is Miles.

Me thinks you meant Hairston. Hairston is the 6'7" PF while Thornton is the 6'1" point guard.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Me thinks you meant Hairston. Hairston is the 6'7" PF while Thornton is the 6'1" point guard.
No I meant Thornton. The discussion was starting Thornton, and letting Nolan move back to his position. I'd like to see them try that, but I can't see sitting Miles to make room for Tyler as a starter.

[Bob Green]

No I meant Thornton.

Okay, I missed your logic in the original post. I guess you're saying Miles is playing too good to go away from starting two bigs (Mason and Miles).

I agree.

Smith, Dawkins, Singler, Mason and Miles is a much better stronger starting line-up than Thornton, Smith, Dawkins, Singler and Mason.

Whew, that was confusing, or a more likely scenario is I confused myself, but now I think I'm squared away (another Sailor term)!

[diveonthefloor]

Okay, I missed your logic in the original post. I guess you're saying Miles is playing too good to go away from starting two bigs (Mason and Miles).

I agree.

Smith, Dawkins, Singler, Mason and Miles is a much better stronger starting line-up than Thornton, Smith, Dawkins, Singler and Mason.

Whew, that was confusing, or a more likely scenario is I confused myself, but now I think I'm squared away (another Sailor term)!

I am a big Andre fan....but I wouldn't be surprised to see anyone in the starting lineup. The only locks to start every game are Kyle and Nolan.

[BattierBattalion]

I said it in another thread- but he is the best passer and the offense flows better when you have someone who sees what is happening on the floor. Smith and Curry are much better scorers- but Thornton is a better floor leader. He should play more with the starters in the next couple of games. He could be very Amaker-like with Smith playing the Johnny Dawkins role.

Thanks!

I know everyone on this board will hate this comparison, but Thornton is our Ronald Nored. I'd love to see Thornton start and have Dawkins come off the bench.

[Bluedog]

Top 5 plays courtesy of Duke Blue Planet. Check it out:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e48Hmb1ep_E

[hurley1]

I think this board could use a Duke loss. The negative critics of the teams play are beginning to get a little stale. I don't think anyone's heart is even in it anymore.

I have no problem at all with the duke team minus Kyrie. Krie is good, but, so is alot of the others we have on the roster. Coach K is adjusting the team, and once he gets all the pieces in place, we will be just fine. Kyrie is a high octane guard, but, Duke can win against anyone without him. When March comes it will be Singler and Nolan who make the difference, with or without Kyrie.

[oldnavy]

#1 - Mason wore white shoes today.

#3 - Didn't see this. Could you tell what it was about?
#4 - I disagree. Come on now, really? He played well today, but you want him as our first person off the bench? I think he is right about where he should be on this team.

#5 - I disagree. Kyle played 33 minutes (his average is 31.3) and Nolan played 31 minutes (his average is 30.6), so not too out of sync with their averages. This is their last game for more than a week and everyone on the team is getting used to a new role without Kyrie. Kyle and Nolan need court time right now, regardless of the opponent.

#6 - I disagree. This seems like the wrong game to be making this observation about Seth. He had 6 assists and only 2 turnovers. He was more well-rounded today than he has been in any game all season.

At the very end of the first half as Dre was coming off the floor, Coach K was telling him something. I believe that Dre had missed a defensive assignment and was being coached up if you will. Dre obviously (by his body language and mannerism) disagreed with what Coach K was saying. I found this very unusual, because most of the time the kids just listen. Then when Dre sat on the bench, Nate James continued the coaching, and Dre was again obviously in disagreement with what was being said. I was sitting directly across from the Duke bench and I watched the entire thing unfold. Basically Dre was using his hands a lot during the discussion as if saying, "what do you expect?" or the like. Holding his palms up and shrugging his shoulders. I suspect it was a "heat of the moment" type of thing, Dre was probably a little frustrated by the defense he had on him. Dre did sit a lot in the second half. He did start the second half which I was watching to see if he would. I kept an eye on him during the rest of the game, and he did seem to stay into the game. He would cheer for his teammates and greet them when they came off the floor. Dre was very encouraging to Josh during and after the game, and ran off the court smiling at the end of the game. I doubt that there will be any lingering effects based on what I saw, just a kid who wanted to defend his case when he probably should have just agreed and moved on. Been there done that myself!! Great learning experience.

[DukieInBrasil]

Just reading the quote from coach Collins below gives a good idea of why Andre's offense was minimized today.

"Well I think the thing with Andre is, he’s now on everybody’s scouting report the way he’s played and the way he’s shot the ball. And I think with St. Louis, the way they play, they don’t help much. They don’t leave shooters, they stay home on guys. Really, Andre was doing a great job of spacing the floor, playing off penetration, getting open threes in transition, and that’s why he’s shooting such a good percentage. And I think now for him, he can continue to build as people chase him off that three point line. To be able to go off the dribble, one or two dribbles, get to the basket, find a way to get yourself to the free throw line. Different ways now where people find a way to take away what you do best. How can I still be productive offensively? And I think this will be a great teaching tape for him and we can continue to get him better. I mean you still forget, he should be a freshman. He’s still a very young player and he’s still getting better. I think today’s game will be a very good learning experience for him as we move forward and continue to see how we can get him more shots.”

In other words, Andre had his primary scoring option taken away from him today and should have looked for alternatives such a dribble drive, force the defender to foul and mid range jumpers, in order to be more effective. Varying his offense would make all parts of his offense more effective. Clearly they have something to work on with him between games.
Just to add to this: SLU was leading the NCAA in limiting the 3 from their opponents, so it was already a focus of theirs. It should come as no surprise then that they would tighten that focus even more on Duke's best 3FG shooter.
I would rather Andre play to what is available in the offense than just randomly launch 3s. And this is what he has done so far, which is part of the reason he has been so effective, that and his shooting from 3 is just insanely good.
To contrast this, I believe that part of the reason why Mason played so little today was that he took a few really poor shots, really forced them up and K didn't want to let Mase get into that habit.

[roywhite]

Just to add to this: SLU was leading the NCAA in limiting the 3 from their opponents, so it was already a focus of theirs. It should come as no surprise then that they would tighten that focus even more on Duke's best 3FG shooter.
I would rather Andre play to what is available in the offense than just randomly launch 3s. And this is what he has done so far, which is part of the reason he has been so effective, that and his shooting from 3 is just insanely good.
To contrast this, I believe that part of the reason why Mason played so little today was that he took a few really poor shots, really forced them up and K didn't want to let Mase get into that habit.

Both Mason and Andre have some amazing abilities, but are not complete players yet. Andre needs to improve as a ball handler and driver, and Mason needs work on offensive moves, finishing strong, and shooting free throws. Both have top-notch athleticism and a high ceiling.

Their continued development is key to the success of this team, particularly if Kyrie does not return. Let's hope they work hard and accept coaching guidance.

[Dev11]

what was the Devil's message? "faster than 100% of" ... what? i could never quite see it.
thanks

Snakes. On the Crazies info sheet, it was noted that one of the SLU players said on his Facebook that is "faster than 80% of snakes." Given that a Billiken isn't a thing at all, the Devil was pretty limited in what he could write on the headband.

As for Mason wearing Jordans, he's worn those multiple times now. Pretty sure he's the only guy that wears Jordans, and I also don't like it. Not sure why he doesn't pick from the apparently vast array of choices the other guys pick from (I love watching the shoes change game to game. Judge me).

[buddy]

Coach actually addressed this Friday. It is an opportunity for Coach to play different combinations. In practice, Thornton will not run an offense with Singler and Smith on his team. Leaving them in the game with Thornton and Hairston allows Tyler to get some quality minutes with the "stars" in game situations. It's a long season, and every minute on the floor is a coaching and learning lesson.

[IrishDevil]

There was a lot to like in the game yesterday, but I think Miles deserves to be singled out. He was strong on defense and not too foul prone, with a couple of nice blocks and good help rotations. He blossomed a bit on offense - battling for rebounds (mostly without fouling), soft touch around the rim with hook shots, converting on a lob or two, and even a turn around bank shot a la the Big Fundamental! I hope his performance had less to do with the small stature of the opponent and more with increased skills and confidence and I hope the trend continues!

[hurley1]

There was a lot to like in the game yesterday, but I think Miles deserves to be singled out. He was strong on defense and not too foul prone, with a couple of nice blocks and good help rotations. He blossomed a bit on offense - battling for rebounds (mostly without fouling), soft touch around the rim with hook shots, converting on a lob or two, and even a turn around bank shot a la the Big Fundamental! I hope his performance had less to do with the small stature of the opponent and more with increased skills and confidence and I hope the trend continues!

Miles did play better yesterday, but, I believe that little brother Mason will be the most improved player in the NCAA when March comes around. I see Mason, Singler, and Smith being the big difference makers this season. There are a host of others that will contribute greatly, but, to me, these are the big 3.

[basket1544]

Mason's got some work to do to be a third of a potential Big Three. For starters he needs to work on his free throw shooting. More worrisome to me is getting him the ball down low. Nolan and company have to get better at the interior pass. Thornton did a good job of that in this game.
Alternatively, Ryan or Miles get the ball at 15' and can create something - either pass it over the defense or shoot from there or drive and get to the line. Mason's got to get that facet to his game.

[dukelifer]

What I see right now keeping Thornton on the bench is Miles. He's making the most of his start, it's hard to argue to replace him with Tyler. I'd like to see the coaches try, but I also like having MP1 and MP2 in there.

Miles could still start with Andre and Seth coming off the bench- maybe together. Both MP1 and MP2 benefit by having a good passer. I have not seen enough of Thornton to know how this would go - but I would like to see him with the first team in the next few games to see if will help them to a better start.

[DukieInBrasil]

Miles could still start with Andre and Seth coming off the bench- maybe together. Both MP1 and MP2 benefit by having a good passer. I have not seen enough of Thornton to know how this would go - but I would like to see him with the first team in the next few games to see if will help them to a better start.
I would much rather see Seth start than Tyler. TT is filling the role that K has made for him quite well, but that role does not include starting. In fact, it might be better that Seth start than Andre. Andre is a great shooter but with only Nolan as a PG in the starting 5, the ball-handling could be shaky. Smith, Seth, Singler (it's the 3 S's all over again ;) plus the MPs would be a dangerous squad, with Andre, Ryan, TT and Josh off the bench.

[dukelifer]

I would much rather see Seth start than Tyler. TT is filling the role that K has made for him quite well, but that role does not include starting. In fact, it might be better that Seth start than Andre. Andre is a great shooter but with only Nolan as a PG in the starting 5, the ball-handling could be shaky. Smith, Seth, Singler (it's the 3 S's all over again ;) plus the MPs would be a dangerous squad, with Andre, Ryan, TT and Josh off the bench.

I am not that sure about Seth's handle- but he may be more natural PG than Nolan. Nolan has many gifts but he does not really see the floor very well. But all I see is the games- the coaches see much more so who knows. It will be interesting to watch this develop.

[NSDukeFan]

Top 5 plays courtesy of Duke Blue Planet. Check it out:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e48Hmb1ep_E

Thanks for posting that. One thing I got from the video was that Josh mentioned that coach K told him to bring lots of energy and even be a little crazy (I don't remember the exact quote) defensively when he gets out there. I thought he did bring a lot of defensive energy, but was wondering if he was doubling too much, but coach may be ok with that as long as he keeps up the energy. We got beat for a layup or two because of that, but as others have pointed out, the defense was extremely solid for most of the game and yielded a few uncontested lay-ups, but everything else was very difficult for St. Louis.

I have also been impressed with Seth's hands. I think he has the quickest hands on the team. He may get beat a bit off the dribble but, in a defense that is trying to generate turnovers by applying a lot of pressure, expecting to have help side teammates available, he is great to have on the floor. (Sorry if that sentence doesn't make as much sense to you as it does me.) With his solid ball-handling and some nice moves off the dribble, I think he brings a lot more to the table then his terrific outside shooting.

[hq2]

I would rather Andre play to what is available in the offense than just randomly launch 3s. And this is what he has done so far, which is part of the reason he has been so effective, that and his shooting from 3 is just insanely good.

Precisely. He has to remember that there are a lot of other offensive weapons on this team. He'll have big nights some times depending on the defense, but won't on others. When that happens, he'll have to accept that other players should score. When they do, he'll get his chances, within the natural flow of the offense.

[Saratoga2]

Precisely. He has to remember that there are a lot of other offensive weapons on this team. He'll have big nights some times depending on the defense, but won't on others. When that happens, he'll have to accept that other players should score. When they do, he'll get his chances, within the natural flow of the offense.

The coaches appear to want him to diversify his offense. He has some flashes of a mid range game and can get to the basket. Why not fake the 3 and drive by? I think he will improve his offensive game to go along with the exceptional 3 point shooting

[IrishDevil]

Miles did play better yesterday, but, I believe that little brother Mason will be the most improved player in the NCAA when March comes around. I see Mason, Singler, and Smith being the big difference makers this season. There are a host of others that will contribute greatly, but, to me, these are the big 3.


Mason's got some work to do to be a third of a potential Big Three. For starters he needs to work on his free throw shooting. More worrisome to me is getting him the ball down low. Nolan and company have to get better at the interior pass. Thornton did a good job of that in this game.
Alternatively, Ryan or Miles get the ball at 15' and can create something - either pass it over the defense or shoot from there or drive and get to the line. Mason's got to get that facet to his game.

I agree that Mason has the potential to be a big time scoring threat, but he's got a ways to go yet.

As nice as it would be to get Mason the ball down low (and I agree, we are not terribly adept at either entry passes or interior passing), it would be especially nice if he had a back-to-basket game. He converts well on lobs and on the break, and can pass well out of the post, but he almost invariably attempts to face the basket in order to get a shot. Even off a drop step within spitting distance of the rim, he will go up and try to shoot the ball instead of laying it up, e.g., his only field goal Saturday. Both Miles and Ryan appear to have considerably more offensive weapons in their post repertoire. Mason showed flashes of post offense against Marquette, but would benefit nicely from paying attention to what his fellow bigs have doing late, IMHO.

[SMO]

The coaches appear to want him to diversify his offense. He has some flashes of a mid range game and can get to the basket. Why not fake the 3 and drive by? I think he will improve his offensive game to go along with the exceptional 3 point shooting

Redick became extremely good at this by his senior year. It may take time (which we should give him), but I think Dre can develop arsenal of offensive moves that are predicated on his great 3pt shooting ability.

[jv001]

I agree that Mason has the potential to be a big time scoring threat, but he's got a ways to go yet.

As nice as it would be to get Mason the ball down low (and I agree, we are not terribly adept at either entry passes or interior passing), it would be especially nice if he had a back-to-basket game. He converts well on lobs and on the break, and can pass well out of the post, but he almost invariably attempts to face the basket in order to get a shot. Even off a drop step within spitting distance of the rim, he will go up and try to shoot the ball instead of laying it up, e.g., his only field goal Saturday. Both Miles and Ryan appear to have considerably more offensive weapons in their post repertoire. Mason showed flashes of post offense against Marquette, but would benefit nicely from paying attention to what his fellow bigs have doing late, IMHO.

Mason has shown that he has great potential, but he has a way to go to reach that great potential. One thing that Miles has over his little brother is the ability to use his left hand effectively. Mason has awkardly put up some shots that did not come close to going in with his right hand. Had he shot the ball with his left hand those shots would have had a better chance of going in. This along with his inconsistent free throw shooting has held Mason back. Mason has not brought his game to the level of Kyle and Nolan. I'm not saying he can't but he has a way to go. Go Duke!

[Newton_14]

456518]I am not that sure about Seth's handle- but he may be more natural PG than Nolan. Nolan has many gifts but he does not really see the floor very well. [/B]But all I see is the games- the coaches see much more so who knows. It will be interesting to watch this develop.

Actually, he has improved a lot in that area and currently is leading the ACC in assists at 5.5 per game. I recognize this was once a weakness in his game, but players improve and Nolan has.

Nolan's current Stat's
Assists 5.5 pg ACC Rank-1st
Scoring 16.6 ppg ACC Rank- 5th
Field Goal % .491 ACC Rank- 5th

He can play even better. Got off to a bit of a rough start on turnovers and free throw shooting, but he is getting better in both categories and I believe he will continue to improve in both of those areas as well as from long distance.

[CEF1959]

Sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't see it.

What was the family emergency that kept K out of the post-game interviews? I had wondered late in the game whether there was some personal issue between K and Majerus, because K kept starters in for a long time after this game was a blow out. I understand that K is trying different combinations and preparing for the spring games. But then when he left the post-game stuff to Collins, it made me wonder.

Insights or information?

[jimsumner]

Sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't see it.

What was the family emergency that kept K out of the post-game interviews? I had wondered late in the game whether there was some personal issue between K and Majerus, because K kept starters in for a long time after this game was a blow out. I understand that K is trying different combinations and preparing for the spring games. But then when he left the post-game stuff to Collins, it made me wonder.

Insights or information?

Your conjecture has no factual basis.

[CEF1959]

Just a question, Dude. Lighten up. Got any info on the family emergency thing?

[jimsumner]

Just a question, Dude. Lighten up. Got any info on the family emergency thing?

Actually, it was more than a question. It was a question wrapped around unfounded speculation that implied that Duke was participating in an elaborate cover-up as part of a non-existent feud.

[Duvall]

Just a question, Dude. Lighten up. Got any info on the family emergency thing?

If it's a family matter, I suspect that everyone that needs to know about it already does.

[CEF1959]

Not every post has a secret subtext. Sometimes a question is just a question, not requiring any deep levels of psychological deconstruction.

Sorry I asked. Sheesh. Or maybe try rereading my question without the cynical lenses and give me a straight answer. If you have no info, that's cool. Just say so. Or don't post. Your choice.

[sdotbarbee]

Sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't see it.

What was the family emergency that kept K out of the post-game interviews? I had wondered late in the game whether there was some personal issue between K and Majerus, because K kept starters in for a long time after this game was a blow out. I understand that K is trying different combinations and preparing for the spring games. But then when he left the post-game stuff to Collins, it made me wonder.

Insights or information?

Wow you got jumped all over for no reason, Isn't the DBR a friendly place? I will tell you I was told it was an emergency with one of his daughters and that is all I will say because I don't have a link. I sent Airowe a message to confirm or to see if he heard anything else and I never heard back so if anyone else would like to add feel free.

[jimsumner]

Not every post has a secret subtext. Sometimes a question is just a question, not requiring any deep levels of psychological deconstruction.

Sorry I asked. Sheesh. Or maybe try rereading my question without the cynical lenses and give me a straight answer. If you have no info, that's cool. Just say so. Or don't post. Your choice.

You were given a straight answer. You chose to ignore it.

Your speculation of a feud between Mike Krzyzewski and Rick Majerus is nonsense. A figment of your imagination. No subtext here. YOU thought it up and for some reason decided it deserved airing. Nobody put any words in your mouth.

You speculated that Mike Krzyzewski left in his starters to run up the score. Duke's five starters against Saint Louis played 123 minutes, an average of 24.6 minutes per player. Duke's four recruited reserves played 75 minutes, an average of 18.75 minutes per player.
The two freshmen reserves played career highs in minutes. Ryan Kelly played a season-high in minutes and equaled his career-high in minutes. Seth Curry played his Duke-high in minutes.

So much for running up the score.

You then suggested that Mike Krzyzewski's disinclination to participate in the required post-game interviews was not related to a family situation but a ruse designed as part of your imaginary feud. This ruse involved the Duke Media Relations Department, the Associate Head Coach and the official Duke website, among others. Mull that one over.

And you somehow seem aggrieved that the details of a family situation haven't been publically explained to your satisfaction. You honestly think you're entitled to that information? Not everything that happens to a public figure are in the public domain.

First rule of holes. Stop digging.

[CEF1959]

Jim, just chill and go reread my initial question. It was really very innocuous and did not include all the weird subtexts or evil insinuations you mistakenly read into it. I was just asking.

[-jk]

Jim, just chill and go reread my initial question. It was really very innocuous and did not include all the weird subtexts or evil insinuations you mistakenly read into it. I was just asking.

Laxatives exist for a reason.

I think Jim read it as a reasonable person would. You were clearly speculating about a feud, Jim refuted the speculation.

Please let it go.

-jk

[DallasDevil]

First rule of holes. Stop digging.

You may want to apply this rule to yourself. A plain reading of his original post shows he was simply curious about the family emergency. The innuendo that you think exists in the post does not seem to be apparent to anyone else, including the original poster. Maybe it's everyone's anxiety over Kyrie's toe, but it seems that some of the more experienced posters have been pretty quick to jump all over less established members lately. Hopefully this trend doesn't continue and we can all just enjoy watching this team develop over the next few months.

[sdotbarbee]

I think Jim read it as a reasonable person would. You were clearly speculating about a feud, Jim refuted the speculation.

Please let it go.

-jk

Are you serious? The guy just wanted an answer to a question, and yeah he did throw out speculations, I think to get the ball rolling so maybe someone would answer. That is nice that you stuck up for Jim and came to his defense but I think Jim was wrong in this situation. Why did Jim have to say this "And you somehow seem aggrieved that the details of a family situation haven't been publically explained to your satisfaction. You honestly think you're entitled to that information? Not everything that happens to a public figure are in the public domain." The information is obviously out there because I heard about it and maybe the guy just cares for his coach and wants to send some prayers up if they are needed.

[jimsumner]

Jim, just chill and go reread my initial question. It was really very innocuous and did not include all the weird subtexts or evil insinuations you mistakenly read into it. I was just asking.

In what way did I misrepresent your post?

[sdotbarbee]

In what way did I misrepresent your post?

Really??? Come on man, you jumped all over him for no reason. The guy just wanted to know about the emergency, if you don't want to share the info you know so be but no need to be harsh, we are all Duke fans here and we all really care about our team and coaches.

[CEF1959]

This is really unproductive and has nothing to do anymore with Duke basketball. Let's just drop it.

[Newton_14]

Ok, here is the OP's post:



What was the family emergency that kept K out of the post-game interviews? I had wondered late in the game whether there was some personal issue between K and Majerus, because K kept starters in for a long time after this game was a blow out. I understand that K is trying different combinations and preparing for the spring games. But then when he left the post-game stuff to Collins, it made me wonder.Insights or information?

No offense to anyone but read the bolded underlined part. How can one read that and not come to the same conclusion Jim did? The OP "wondered if there was a fued between K and Majerus", then implied K ran the score up "because K kept the starters in for a long time after the game was a blowout".

Then implied K ducked the post-game presser stating "But then when he left the post-game stuff to Collins, it made me wonder"

I have no beef at all with the OP, but I don't see how that can be read any differently. Probably would have been best to simply ask what the family emergency was, and leave it at that.

[Newton_14]

This is really unproductive and has nothing to do anymore with Duke basketball. Let's just drop it.

Now that I think we can all agree on! :D

[sdotbarbee]

Ok, here is the OP's post:




No offense to anyone but read the bolded underlined part. How can one read that and not come to the same conclusion Jim did? The OP "wondered if there was a fued between K and Majerus", then implied K ran the score up "because K kept the starters in for a long time after the game was a blowout".

Then implied K ducked the post-game presser stating "But then when he left the post-game stuff to Collins, it made me wonder"

I have no beef at all with the OP, but I don't see how that can be read any differently. Probably would have been best to simply ask what the family emergency was, and leave it at that.

I read it differently, the way I read it was the OP threw out different possibilities to see if anyone knew anything and instead of Jim saying hey no its nothing like that it was truly a family emergency and I don't want to get into it we should just leave it alone, but he was very harsh in his statement and I think it was uncalled for. You said in your last sentence "Probably would have been best to simply ask what the family emergency was, and leave it at that." and Jim answered with this "You honestly think you're entitled to that information? Not everything that happens to a public figure are in the public domain.

First rule of holes. Stop digging."

Maybe you should read it again, you don't always have to side with the poster with more pitchforks!

[jimsumner]

Let me elaborate on the insinuation that Mike Krzyzewski would delegate a press conference to an assistant as part of a feud. I suspect this is a bigger deal for me than for you. Let me try to explain why.

There are obligations and protocols involved in post-game media events. The post-game interviews take place in a room dedicated to that purpose. In this post-game, there were credentialed and screened representatives of the print, broadcast and internet media, local, national and beat. Coaches know that what they say will be recorded and disseminated at the local and national level, archived and will become part of the permanent record.

Mike Krzyzewski does this. After every game. Win or lose. He does it after losses that end seasons, after losses to arch-rivals, losses after blown leads, after games in which his team excels, games in which his team plays below its standards. He has done this for almost 40 years. He has never ditched this obligation for any but the most compelling reasons.

So, ask yourself how likely is it that he would ignore this responsibiloity after a 37-point win for any reason other than the stated reason, especially when doing so would involve numerous other Duke officials and coaches in that deception?

I'll take your word that your questions were innocuous and had no "evil insinuations." I answered your original query as concisely as possible and have expounded on that as necessary. But what you implicity accused Mike Krzyzewski of would be a serious ethical violation. Perhaps you didn't know that and didn't understand the implications of what you were implying.

You asked for insights and information. Other than the nature of the family situation, I believe I have provided enough to answer your original questions and to suggest why I found the original post so disturbing.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Let me elaborate on the insinuation that Mike Krzyzewski would delegate a press conference to an assistant as part of a feud. I suspect this is a bigger deal for me than for you. Let me try to explain why.

There are obligations and protocols involved in post-game media events. The post-game interviews take place in a room dedicated to that purpose. In this post-game, there were credentialed and screened representatives of the print, broadcast and internet media, local, national and beat. Coaches know that what they say will be recorded and disseminated at the local and national level, archived and will become part of the permanent record.

Mike Krzyzewski does this. After every game. Win or lose. He does it after losses that end seasons, after losses to arch-rivals, losses after blown leads, after games in which his team excels, games in which his team plays below its standards. He has done this for almost 40 years. He has never ditched this obligation for any but the most compelling reasons.

So, ask yourself how likely is it that he would ignore this responsibiloity after a 37-point win for any reason other than the stated reason, especially when doing so would involve numerous other Duke officials and coaches in that deception?

I'll take your word that your questions were innocuous and had no "evil insinuations." I answered your original query as concisely as possible and have expounded on that as necessary. But what you implicity accused Mike Krzyzewski of would be a serious ethical violation. Perhaps you didn't know that and didn't understand the implications of what you were implying.

You asked for insights and information. Other than the nature of the family situation, I believe I have provided enough to answer your original questions and to suggest why I found the original post so disturbing.


Despite the fact that I am very curious what you have to say here, I am going to refrain from reading because I am boycotting this whole argument. I have nothing but love for all Duke fans :D

[sdotbarbee]

Let me elaborate on the insinuation that Mike Krzyzewski would delegate a press conference to an assistant as part of a feud. I suspect this is a bigger deal for me than for you. Let me try to explain why.

There are obligations and protocols involved in post-game media events. The post-game interviews take place in a room dedicated to that purpose. In this post-game, there were credentialed and screened representatives of the print, broadcast and internet media, local, national and beat. Coaches know that what they say will be recorded and disseminated at the local and national level, archived and will become part of the permanent record.

Mike Krzyzewski does this. After every game. Win or lose. He does it after losses that end seasons, after losses to arch-rivals, losses after blown leads, after games in which his team excels, games in which his team plays below its standards. He has done this for almost 40 years. He has never ditched this obligation for any but the most compelling reasons.

So, ask yourself how likely is it that he would ignore this responsibiloity after a 37-point win for any reason other than the stated reason, especially when doing so would involve numerous other Duke officials and coaches in that deception?

I'll take your word that your questions were innocuous and had no "evil insinuations." I answered your original query as concisely as possible and have expounded on that as necessary. But what you implicity accused Mike Krzyzewski of would be a serious ethical violation. Perhaps you didn't know that and didn't understand the implications of what you were implying.

You asked for insights and information. Other than the nature of the family situation, I believe I have provided enough to answer your original questions and to suggest why I found the original post so disturbing.

I understand your point but for people who don't understand what goes on in post game because they are not involved only see what is on TV. After the first half the sideline reporter never gets coach K, they always get an asst. Coach and they are interviewed, most of the time in a game between any other two teams going into halftime it is the head coach that is interviewed. I know that you know a lot about the Duke program but lets not attack each other, why don't you respectfully answer the question without being snarky especially since you could really enlighten us.

[jimsumner]

I understand your point but for people who don't understand what goes on in post game because they are not involved only see what is on TV. After the first half the sideline reporter never gets coach K, they always get an asst. Coach and they are interviewed, most of the time in a game between any other two teams going into halftime it is the head coach that is interviewed. I know that you know a lot about the Duke program but lets not attack each other, why don't you respectfully answer the question without being snarky especially since you could really enlighten us.

Didn't I?

[sdotbarbee]

Didn't I?

Sorry but you didn't. The silver lining here is I did learn a lot about you in the last couple of posts...

[jimsumner]

Sorry but you didn't. The silver lining here is I did learn a lot about you in the last couple of posts...

I respectfully disagree.

I'm way past the point of diminishing returns here.

Over and out.

[pfrduke]

I think we all are. This conversation is over.