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meowmix911
12-08-2010, 04:00 PM
Looks like the guys over at nbadraft.net have recalibrated their rankings for the 2011 NBA draft...

1. Perry Jones
2. KYRIE IRVING
3. Harrison Barnes

Order restored :)

That being said, where does HB end up by the end of the year? He's already dropped from 1-3 in the first month of the season...

Duke: A Dynasty
12-08-2010, 04:01 PM
He wont fall out of the lottery. I say he even stays top 10

meowmix911
12-08-2010, 04:20 PM
if he keeps staying the same way he stays for year 2. :)

JasonEvans
12-08-2010, 04:34 PM
DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/)has it--


Kyrie
Perry
Harrison


--Jason "in the category of things too damn early to worry about, this is waaaay up there" Evans

Orange&BlackSheep
12-08-2010, 04:38 PM
DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/)has it--


Kyrie
Perry
Harrison


--Jason "in the category of things too damn early to worry about, this is waaaay up there" Evans

Can anyone explain to me why Sullinger is not in the top 3? I have not seen him play yet but if the hype matches the on court at all ...

ChicagoCrazy84
12-08-2010, 05:02 PM
He wont fall out of the lottery. I say he even stays top 10

I agree. Its all about potential and he still has all the potential in the world.

Remember Gerald Wallace when at Alabama? He was projected to go pretty high before he kinda flamed out in SEC play. Still wound up going high. Same with Jrue Holiday, even Josh McRoberts.

ChicagoCrazy84
12-08-2010, 05:04 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Sullinger is not in the top 3? I have not seen him play yet but if the hype matches the on court at all ...

He's definitely top 5. Honestly I think its a coin flip between him and Perry Jones as far as big men go. I wouldn't be dissapointed to see him overtake HB in the top 3.

JasonEvans
12-08-2010, 05:26 PM
Remember Gerald Wallace when at Alabama? He was projected to go pretty high before he kinda flamed out in SEC play. Still wound up going high. Same with Jrue Holiday, even Josh McRoberts.

Wallace was the 25th pick of the first round. He got the guaranteed money of the 1st rounder, but 25th is nothing like what going in the lottery is like.

Josh McRoberts, who was forecast as a mid-lottery pick as a freshman came back to Duke and ended up going in the early-mid 2nd round after his disappointing soph campaign. He did not get guaranteed money and was in fact a DLeague player his first couple seasons.

Your statement about Jrue Holiday is mildly correct. He went 17th in the draft, not really high but not low either.

It is worth noting that despite us razzing him endlessly, Barnes is putting up better collegiate numbers than any of the guys mentioned in this post. None of Wallace, McRoberts, or Holiday averaged better than 10 ppg as freshmen, Barnes is currently at 11.5 ppg.

--Jason "I doubt Barnes slips down beyond the middle of the lottery unless his season gets much worse" Evans

JasonEvans
12-08-2010, 05:32 PM
He's definitely top 5. Honestly I think its a coin flip between him and Perry Jones as far as big men go. I wouldn't be dissapointed to see him overtake HB in the top 3.

The NBA sees Sullinger as a 6-8 or 6-9 PF, which may be a tad undersized for the NBA (though Sullinger has the beef and strength to play PF, for sure). The league sees Jones as a 6-11 SF, which is awesome size for the position. I am not sure I agree with that assessment of Jones, as I think he may end up playing more of a PF in the pros and I think Sullinger (because of his heft) may be a better prospect.

Still, the size difference may explain why one is seen as the #1-2 pick and the other as the #4-5 pick.

--Jason "not sure who I would take #1-- need to see a lot more of these guys" Evans

nocilla
12-08-2010, 05:33 PM
It is worth noting that despite us razzing him endlessly, Barnes is putting up better collegiate numbers than any of the guys mentioned in this post. None of Wallace, McRoberts, or Holiday averaged better than 10 ppg as freshmen, Barnes is currently at 11.5 ppg.

Just curious because I don't know, but did any of those guys get the minutes that Barnes is getting? His numbers could also change as they enter conference play, although with the strength of the ACC being down that may be less of a factor this year.

JasonEvans
12-08-2010, 06:04 PM
Just curious because I don't know, but did any of those guys get the minutes that Barnes is getting? His numbers could also change as they enter conference play, although with the strength of the ACC being down that may be less of a factor this year.

Barnes - 27.8 mpg
Holiday - 27.1 mpg
Wallace - 24.9 mpg
McRoberts - 24.5 mpg

--Jason "not hugely different" Evans

Duvall
12-08-2010, 06:42 PM
It is worth noting that despite us razzing him endlessly, Barnes is putting up better collegiate numbers than any of the guys mentioned in this post. None of Wallace, McRoberts, or Holiday averaged better than 10 ppg as freshmen, Barnes is currently at 11.5 ppg.


The NBA isn't dumb, though. They can spot an empty scoring average from a guy shooting less than 35% from the field, and only 35.5% on 2-point baskets. Bigger numbers aren't necessarily better.

jimsumner
12-08-2010, 07:06 PM
Barnes - 27.8 mpg
Holiday - 27.1 mpg
Wallace - 24.9 mpg
McRoberts - 24.5 mpg

--Jason "not hugely different" Evans

Of course, McRoberts was a freshman on a team that started seniors J.J. Redick and Shelden Williams.

I'm reasonably certain Barnes isn't playing with two senior All-Americans who are combining for 45 ppg.

verga
12-08-2010, 11:28 PM
with Barnes up to this point, i'm not talking about his shooting, which is horrible. I'm talking about his inability to go left and to guard anyone. It's too early to say he won't be better down the road but it's not to early to have concerns.

Devilsfan
12-08-2010, 11:41 PM
overheard a conversation on HB. One person refered to him as a solid "single, single" performer.

meowmix911
12-08-2010, 11:51 PM
I watched the entire UNC-Evansville game. Here's what I don't understand, if you are a 6'8" guy with a 7 foot wingspan, and supposedly very athletic, why are you shooting 5 3's against Evansville (never mind going 0-5). Either he doesn't have the explosiveness to get to the basket, or he's very passive in his demeanor. If it is the latter, then it can be corrected. If he doesn't have the explosion, and that becomes even more exposed, then who does he project to be? NBAdraft.net has him projected to be Grant Hill. Grant Hill was beyond explosive in his early years, as we all know.

Duke: A Dynasty
12-09-2010, 12:02 AM
I watched the entire UNC-Evansville game. Here's what I don't understand, if you are a 6'8" guy with a 7 foot wingspan, and supposedly very athletic, why are you shooting 5 3's against Evansville (never mind going 0-5). Either he doesn't have the explosiveness to get to the basket, or he's very passive in his demeanor. If it is the latter, then it can be corrected. If he doesn't have the explosion, and that becomes even more exposed, then who does he project to be? NBAdraft.net has him projected to be Grant Hill. Grant Hill was beyond explosive in his early years, as we all know.

Barnes appears very very passive imo. It probably does not help to have all that hype, a coach who throws guys under the bus, and bad team chemistry.

PSurprise
12-09-2010, 02:03 PM
How bad does Barnes have to be before the draft boards begin to notice? Is he a lock at #3 (or whatever high position) if he keeps up his current pace of fg%, lack of aggressiveness, etc for the entire year (in which case I can't see him falling for any reason. Or (when) do NBA teams begin to question his actual skill and talent?

Sorry if this sounds awkward...

Kedsy
12-09-2010, 03:02 PM
How bad does Barnes have to be before the draft boards begin to notice? Is he a lock at #3 (or whatever high position) if he keeps up his current pace of fg%, lack of aggressiveness, etc for the entire year (in which case I can't see him falling for any reason. Or (when) do NBA teams begin to question his actual skill and talent?

Why do you care?

slower
12-09-2010, 03:42 PM
Seemed like a fair enough question.

BlueThru&Thru
12-09-2010, 03:58 PM
Barnes appears very very passive imo. It probably does not help to have all that hype, a coach who throws guys under the bus, and bad team chemistry. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oh, sorta like Paulus?

PSurprise
12-09-2010, 04:11 PM
Why do you care?

Well, I care because this is a discussion about a mock lottery, which Barnes will be a part of next year. I would think that asking questions pertinent to the topic that starts/continues a conversation might be warranted, but if not, let me know, and I won't ask for any more opinions.

Kedsy
12-09-2010, 04:19 PM
Well, I care because this is a discussion about a mock lottery, which Barnes will be a part of next year. I would think that asking questions pertinent to the topic that starts/continues a conversation might be warranted, but if not, let me know, and I won't ask for any more opinions.

I interpreted your post as yet another "bash Barnes" post. If that's not what it was, I apologize if I offended you.

At the beginning of the year all the draft blogs had him at #1. Just a month or so later he's at #3. Obviously he's not a "lock" for anything. It's not like these mock draft boards are based on reality anyway, is it?

If Barnes isn't ready to dominate college yet, he'll probably stay in school another year (especially with the lockout looming). And I still don't understand why the DBR board is so obsessed with Harrison Barnes.

PSurprise
12-09-2010, 04:39 PM
I interpreted your post as yet another "bash Barnes" post. If that's not what it was, I apologize if I offended you.

At the beginning of the year all the draft blogs had him at #1. Just a month or so later he's at #3. Obviously he's not a "lock" for anything. It's not like these mock draft boards are based on reality anyway, is it?

If Barnes isn't ready to dominate college yet, he'll probably stay in school another year (especially with the lockout looming). And I still don't understand why the DBR board is so obsessed with Harrison Barnes.

No problem. It was not a Bash Barnes question.

While there are some significant differences, I also see a lot of similarities with Barnes' and McRoberts' situations. Both had huge expectations, team chemistry issues, and were (are) predicted to be lottery picks. McRoberts I think we can agree underperformed from his abilities at Duke and we saw how far he slid in the draft. I'm just wondering how "poorly" Barnes would have to play for NBA teams to rethink their opinion of Barnes. I think he knows it would be in his best interest to return if he doesn't play better this year, but it's the same money v. improvement argument all over again.

And I agree, there's no point for mock lotteries, but it's fun to conjecture, especially when it's Devils that "raise their stock" during the year.

accfanfrom1970
12-10-2010, 09:01 AM
Can't bellieve Draft Express has Henson (#12) listed at 200 lbs. and Mason only listed at 210lbs. Even Duke lists Mason at 240lbs.


DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/)has it--


Kyrie
Perry
Harrison


--Jason "in the category of things too damn early to worry about, this is waaaay up there" Evans