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coachcrock
12-06-2010, 07:25 AM
Here is my list what about you?

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan langdon
3. Jason Williams
4. Chris Collins
5. Mike Dunleavy Jr.

Gthoma2a
12-06-2010, 07:36 AM
Here is my list what about you?

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan langdon
3. Jason Williams
4. Chris Collins
5. Mike Dunleavy Jr.

JJ Redick
Shane Battier (the guy set the record for 3s in a game at one point)
Trajan Langdon
Chris Collins
Jon Scheyer

Honorable mention: Christian Laettner, Jason Williams, and a ton of others.

Devilsfan
12-06-2010, 07:48 AM
I think there were only three worth recognition, JJ, JWill, and Trajan.

flyingdutchdevil
12-06-2010, 07:50 AM
Here is my list what about you?

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan langdon
3. Jason Williams
4. Chris Collins
5. Mike Dunleavy Jr.

Great list. Definitely agree with the first and second choices. I'd put J-Will as the fifth choice, upgrade Chris Collins to third, and put Battier fourth.

I can't put Scheyer because, despite him being a phenomenal player, was such a streaking three point shooter and went on extended shooting slumps during parts of his junior and senior seasons. Laettner had the most ridiculous 3pt % his senior year (around 55%) but wasn't a great shooter his other three years.

theAlaskanBear
12-06-2010, 08:22 AM
Great list. Definitely agree with the first and second choices. I'd put J-Will as the fifth choice, upgrade Chris Collins to third, and put Battier fourth.

I can't put Scheyer because, despite him being a phenomenal player, was such a streaking three point shooter and went on extended shooting slumps during parts of his junior and senior seasons. Laettner had the most ridiculous 3pt % his senior year (around 55%) but wasn't a great shooter his other three years.

I am sorry, but Collins does not belong on the list unless it's as an honorable mention. He had two great seasons percentage-wise: fr and sr year. those years he his 37 and 79 threes, respectively, at 44%. but his so. and jr. season his % slipped to %33 and then to 23%. His jr year he hit only 17 shots. I would like my list to have a little more consistency than that. In no way does he belong above Battier OR JWill, who had some of the best 3-pt seasons in Duke history (huge volume & great percentages) along with Redick.

ed: I also disagree with Scheyer, who is probably the most consistent 3-pt shooter. he his 38% each of his last three seasons, each year shooting more 3's. Last year he hit 110 3's. Sheyer is way better a shooter than Collins, so this whole post has me confused.

The Gordog
12-06-2010, 08:25 AM
Great list. Definitely agree with the first and second choices. I'd put J-Will as the fifth choice, upgrade Chris Collins to third, and put Battier fourth.

I can't put Scheyer because, despite him being a phenomenal player, was such a streaking three point shooter and went on extended shooting slumps during parts of his junior and senior seasons. Laettner had the most ridiculous 3pt % his senior year (around 55%) but wasn't a great shooter his other three years.

Laettner's 3 % was the same Jr. & Sr. years, even higher Soph. year IIRC.

1. JJJ
2. Trajan
3. J-Will
4. Hurley (for Vegas, baby!)
5. Laettner

superdave
12-06-2010, 08:40 AM
4. Hurley (for Vegas, baby!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL25mHXnmM0&feature=related)

Go to about the 2:39 mark. Biggest shot in Duke history.

hurleyfor3
12-06-2010, 09:06 AM
Hmmm... the list of the 10 most famous 3's in Duke history would have Hurley on it at least three times, maybe four. It would be a weird list, with Laettner, Dockery, Capel and Nick Horvath competing to make appearances. OK, Horvath only gets honorable mention.

What was JJ's most memorable 3? His last one against BC in the 2006 ACC Tournament? Would Trajan's be the 4-point play against UConn? Do we count Duhon's against UConn that allowed Duke to cover the spread?

Oh, whatever, here's my list:

10. Hurley @ Michigan, December '91
9. Laettner @ LSU, 1992
8. JJ vs. BC, 2006 ACC Tournament
7. Scheyer vs. Baylor, 2010, late in game after rebounding missed free throw
6. Williams @ Maryland, 2001, the one after he stole the inbounds pass
5. Capel vs. unc in Cameron, 1995
4. Trajan vs. Michigan State (his only three of the game I believe), 1999 regional semifinal
3. Dunleavy's third of three straight vs. Arizona, 2001
2. Hurley vs. Kentucky in overtime, 1992
1. Hurley vs. Unlv, 1991

vabombers
12-06-2010, 09:10 AM
Beyond the top guy who, from what I've seen, we all agree is JJ I think the list is arguable and definitely varies based on the era and a lot of other factors.

I do take 2 things from what I've seen in many of the lists.

1. JJ was so pure. From the first time I saw that kid's stroke it was unreal. I'll never forget watching him stand in front of the UNC bench over 25 feet from the basket as they try to call a defense and he just pops and fires from there. It was a little silly to be honest.

2. The 2001 team had some prolific shooters- I've seen three guys from this team in ranked in the top five for all time shooters. It's arguable, to say the least, that they reach the rankings but the fact they could be in the conversation says a ton about just how good that team was. All those shooters and a Boozer type talent on the inside.

theAlaskanBear
12-06-2010, 09:12 AM
1. Redick: enough said.
2. Jason Williams: shot 39% as a high volume shooter -- hit 132 3's in 2001. That is only 7 behind Redick's best year -- and they shot essentially the same percent doing it.
3. Langdon: over Battier is tough, but Tajan was a higher volume shooter (80+ made threes soph-sr years) while Battier gradually built up his shooting. Also, better %.
4. Battier: always hit a great percentage -- just took him a couple of years to really start shooting lots of 3's. One of the best seasons ever with 124 3's
5. Laettner: this was the toughest decision by far, because we are comparing good guards with a center. I'll give it to Laettner because of his ridiculous shooting %s, and tiebreaker to the fact he his the most famous shot (2-pointer, I know) in Duke history.

Best of the Rest: John Scheyer. Find me someone with better stats. Better than Dunleavy, Collins, or any guards in the late 80s and the 90's save for Langdon. Singler would be close but he has to have a great year this year -- much better than he has been performing. Btw, Scheyers senior year he hit 110 shots -- two behind Langdons best year. 38% career, great consistency.

Honorable mentions: Hurley, Dunleavy Jr, Chris Collins, Singler, Smith, Daniel Ewing (who really surprised me).

davekay1971
12-06-2010, 09:32 AM
Hmmm... the list of the 10 most famous 3's in Duke history would have Hurley on it at least three times, maybe four.

That's a great, great point. We all know about Laettner's clutch performances in the NCAA tournament, but Hurley was right there with him. His 3 pointer against UNLV with us down by 5, right when UNLV seemed to have taken control of the game, was the biggest 3 pointer I can think of in the last 30 years of Duke basketball. Hurley misses that, we lose.

Hurley also came up huge with his 3 against KY, and his all-around performance against Indiana in the semis was what won us the game when Laettner was having an off night.

Hurley may not have been the best 3 point shooter game in and game out, but, when the season is on the line and we need a 3 pointer, I'm not sure I'd want anyone else taking the shot.

Orange&BlackSheep
12-06-2010, 09:50 AM
Hmmm... the list of the 10 most famous 3's in Duke history would have Hurley on it at least three times, maybe four. It would be a weird list, with Laettner, Dockery, Capel and Nick Horvath competing to make appearances. OK, Horvath only gets honorable mention.

What was JJ's most memorable 3? His last one against BC in the 2006 ACC Tournament? Would Trajan's be the 4-point play against UConn? Do we count Duhon's against UConn that allowed Duke to cover the spread?

Oh, whatever, here's my list:

10. Hurley @ Michigan, December '91
9. Laettner @ LSU, 1992
8. JJ vs. BC, 2006 ACC Tournament
7. Scheyer vs. Baylor, 2010, late in game after rebounding missed free throw
6. Williams @ Maryland, 2001, the one after he stole the inbounds pass
5. Capel vs. unc in Cameron, 1995
4. Trajan vs. Michigan State (his only three of the game I believe), 1999 regional semifinal
3. Dunleavy's third of three straight vs. Arizona, 2001
2. Hurley vs. Kentucky in overtime, 1992
1. Hurley vs. Unlv, 1991


Two I throw out there to see what people think ...

Dockery's half-court buzzer beater. Meaningless regular season game, but it was bedlam and turned an L into a W.

JayWill's rebound of Ewing's miss and step back 3 at the end of the Indiana game in 2002 in which he was also fouled. [Parenthetically, I can never put JayWill up in any top 5 all-time great Duke list for the missed free throw that followed.]

hurleyfor3
12-06-2010, 10:16 AM
Two I throw out there to see what people think ...

Dockery's half-court buzzer beater. Meaningless regular season game, but it was bedlam and turned an L into a W.

JayWill's rebound of Ewing's miss and step back 3 at the end of the Indiana game in 2002 in which he was also fouled.

I tried to think in terms of the point of the game the shot took place, the stakes involved, and the consequences if the shot hadn't gone in. So my list is mostly late-stage NCAA postseason games and regular-season games from national championship years.

Dockery's is hard to leave off; you can substitute it for #9 if you wish. Williams against Indiana would have made the list if we had won the game.

Another shot worth considering: Phil Henderson vs. Arkansas in the 1990 semifinal. People always seem to give the 1990 season short shrift, partially with good reason. This was a gem of a game, though. One run after another, and Henderson's shot capped off the final run of the game.



[Parenthetically, I can never put JayWill up in any top 5 all-time great Duke list for the missed free throw that followed.]

Is that why you used brackets? Because you couldn't do it parenthetically? :)

PADukeMom
12-06-2010, 12:51 PM
For me there are only 2:
JJ
Trajan

rogermortimer
12-06-2010, 03:19 PM
Hurley's shot against UNLV changed Duke and the Duke program forever. I recall watching the game, and saying, this is the biggest clutch shot I can ever remember anyone from Duke ever making.

Yes, one shot does not a career make, but it sure puts Hurley in a special place.

Vincetaylor
12-06-2010, 03:42 PM
Go to about the 2:39 mark. Biggest shot in Duke history.

Speaking of Duke-UNLV. Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this game or view it online?

deezl
12-06-2010, 03:59 PM
Up and coming best 3 point shooter: Andre Dawkins

HaveFunExpectToWin
12-06-2010, 04:36 PM
Speaking of Duke-UNLV. Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this game or view it online?

You can purchase this and many other great Duke games here: ncaaondemand.com (http://www.ncaaondemand.com/clips/30699006_0231)

I got the Duke-MD FF game a few years ago after only seeing it the one time (I think that was the first live HD sports event I ever saw). That comeback in the late 1st/early 2nd half was just amazing. So fun to watch MD crumble under that pressure.

Namtilal
12-06-2010, 05:17 PM
Jon's 3 to put GA Tech away in last year's ACC tourney was huge. I don't want to think of how the team would have felt different going into the NCAA's off a loss... I would put that shot in my top-ten.

I agree that Hurley is the best 3-pt shooter in Duke history. It's not form or quantity that matters, but how you perform when the game is on the line. Or in the case of the UNLV shot, the entire future of the Duke program.

lotusland
12-06-2010, 05:22 PM
Speaking of Duke-UNLV. Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this game or view it online?

This reminded me of a recent conversation I had with friend who is a Duke hater. He said that UNLV team was the best college basketball team ever and Duke only won because UNLV threw the game. My first reply was how could they be the best team ever if they threw games? That's a pretty big flaw isn't it? But after thinking about it I realized that even though it was a huge upset at the time, in hindsight, Duke was actually a better team. Hurley, Laettner and Hill are top 50 all-time players. UNLV's top 3 - Anthony, Johnson and Augmon don't compare to those 3 Duke players. Larry Johnson is the only player that would get any consideration as a top 50 or top 100 all time player and he probably would come in behind all three Duke players. Anderson Hunt was their next best player and Thomas Hill was Duke's 4th best. Hunt went undrafted following that year while Thomas Hill was taken in the second round. Granted Hill was a freshman but still a very good player. Duke had not proven their greatness yet and UNLV was thought to be unbeatable. While the Runnin Rebels were intimidating I think Duke exposed their weaknesses and was actually a better team. Sorry for hijacking the thread. I just thought I would throw that out and didn't want to start a whole new thread.

Duke76
12-06-2010, 06:39 PM
even though there was no three point line he would have been great at it as would have Bob Verga. Beautiful to watch both in their time

MChambers
12-06-2010, 07:39 PM
This reminded me of a recent conversation I had with friend who is a Duke hater. He said that UNLV team was the best college basketball team ever and Duke only won because UNLV threw the game. My first reply was how could they be the best team ever if they threw games? That's a pretty big flaw isn't it? But after thinking about it I realized that even though it was a huge upset at the time, in hindsight, Duke was actually a better team. Hurley, Laettner and Hill are top 50 all-time players. UNLV's top 3 - Anthony, Johnson and Augmon don't compare to those 3 Duke players. Larry Johnson is the only player that would get any consideration as a top 50 or top 100 all time player and he probably would come in behind all three Duke players. Anderson Hunt was their next best player and Thomas Hill was Duke's 4th best. Hunt went undrafted following that year while Thomas Hill was taken in the second round. Granted Hill was a freshman but still a very good player. Duke had not proven their greatness yet and UNLV was thought to be unbeatable. While the Runnin Rebels were intimidating I think Duke exposed their weaknesses and was actually a better team. Sorry for hijacking the thread. I just thought I would throw that out and didn't want to start a whole new thread.

A day or two after Duke beat Vegas, Michael Wilbon wrote a piece in the Washington Post making essentially the same point that you made (albeit Wilbon did it nineteen years earlier). He said that the Duke players were younger, but not lesser. He said that Grant Hill, Christian Laettner, and Bobby Hurley would have better success in the pros from the Vegas players. Even though Hurley's career was cut short, he was right.

NSDukeFan
12-06-2010, 07:47 PM
This reminded me of a recent conversation I had with friend who is a Duke hater. He said that UNLV team was the best college basketball team ever and Duke only won because UNLV threw the game. My first reply was how could they be the best team ever if they threw games? That's a pretty big flaw isn't it? But after thinking about it I realized that even though it was a huge upset at the time, in hindsight, Duke was actually a better team. Hurley, Laettner and Hill are top 50 all-time players. UNLV's top 3 - Anthony, Johnson and Augmon don't compare to those 3 Duke players. Larry Johnson is the only player that would get any consideration as a top 50 or top 100 all time player and he probably would come in behind all three Duke players. Anderson Hunt was their next best player and Thomas Hill was Duke's 4th best. Hunt went undrafted following that year while Thomas Hill was taken in the second round. Granted Hill was a freshman but still a very good player. Duke had not proven their greatness yet and UNLV was thought to be unbeatable. While the Runnin Rebels were intimidating I think Duke exposed their weaknesses and was actually a better team. Sorry for hijacking the thread. I just thought I would throw that out and didn't want to start a whole new thread.

The UNLV team Duke beat in the final was a great team. I wouldn't call it the best team ever, but it is in the conversation for best team in the past 30 years. Duke was a better team than UNLV in the final game of the 1990-91 season. They were not the better team over the course of the year. The first list I came across ranking best players of all time ranks Larry Johnson just behind Bobby Hurley (31 and 32) and well ahead of Grant Hill (75). Laettner was at #8.
http://www.americasbestonline.com/Cbasketball.htm

I'm not saying this list is the be-all end-all, but Larry Johnson was the player of the year that year and a returning first-team all-american. I expect he would rank higher on that list but he played junior college and was only at UNLV for 2 years I believe. He was a phenomenal college player. Stacey Augmon was AP 1st team and the rest 2nd team and defensive player of the year for the third consecutive year. Laettner was consensus 2nd team AA. Laettner would make first team AA the next year and Hill and Hurley would make some AA teams and not others. 2 years later, Hurley was 1st team AA and Hill 2nd team and 3 years later Hill was 1st team AA.

If you want to argue that if you took all the players from Duke and UNLV's teams and played them against each other in their primes, I think you could make a very convincing argument that Duke had the better team. If you are arguing that Duke 1990-91 with a Junior Laettner, Sophomore Hurley and Freshman Grant Hill was a better team than UNLV with a senior Larry Johnson, senior Augmon, senior Anthony, Junior Hunt after they had won the national title the year before, I would have to disagree. But, for one game, Duke was certainly the better team and deserved to win.

Johnboy
12-06-2010, 08:02 PM
The UNLV team Duke beat in the final was a great team. I wouldn't call it the best team ever, but it is in the conversation for best team in the past 30 years. Duke was a better team than UNLV in the final game of the 1990-91 season.

Forget Kansas and Ol' Roy?

basket1544
12-06-2010, 08:31 PM
#1. Alaskan Assassin
#2. JJ
And then all the rest...

Shane
Bobby
Jeff Capel

Christian didn't shoot quite enough 3s to make this list for me although his percentage was better than all the guards on this list.

lotusland
12-06-2010, 08:45 PM
The UNLV team Duke beat in the final was a great team. I wouldn't call it the best team ever, but it is in the conversation for best team in the past 30 years. Duke was a better team than UNLV in the final game of the 1990-91 season. They were not the better team over the course of the year. http://www.americasbestonline.com/Cbasketball.htm



I think Duke had hit their stride that year by tournament time. They followed up the UNLV win by beating Kasas for the championship and the following year they were ranked #1 wire to wire. My point is that when game tipped off Duke was the better team even though most people didn't know it. UNLV was thought to be unbeatable and they were heavily favored but in reality they were beatable and Duke sent them home and never looked back.

jv001
12-06-2010, 08:50 PM
even though there was no three point line he would have been great at it as would have Bob Verga. Beautiful to watch both in their time

will always show up on my all time favorite team. So put them down as being in the top 5-10 3point shooters even though they played before the game added the deep shot. Go Duke!
Those two are Bob Verga and Tate Armstrong. Go Duke!

dukeballboy88
12-06-2010, 09:29 PM
Anytime you talk about "BEST" in Duke history, Laettners name needs to be at the top of whatever category you bring up!

Verga3
12-06-2010, 09:44 PM
will always show up on my all time favorite team. So put them down as being in the top 5-10 3point shooters even though they played before the game added the deep shot. Go Duke!
Those two are Bob Verga and Tate Armstrong. Go Duke!

1. Bob Verga
2. Tate Armstrong
3. J.J. Redick
4. Chip Engelland
5. Christian Laettner

Kudos to Trajan Langdon, Danny Ferry, Bobby Hurley, Shane Battier, Jason Williams, Jeff Mullins....Who did I miss? http://goduke.statsgeek.com/

Cameron
12-06-2010, 11:25 PM
Oh, whatever, here's my list [of greatest three-point shots in Duke history]:

10. Hurley @ Michigan, December '91
9. Laettner @ LSU, 1992
8. JJ vs. BC, 2006 ACC Tournament
7. Scheyer vs. Baylor, 2010, late in game after rebounding missed free throw
6. Williams @ Maryland, 2001, the one after he stole the inbounds pass
5. Capel vs. unc in Cameron, 1995
4. Trajan vs. Michigan State (his only three of the game I believe), 1999 regional semifinal
3. Dunleavy's third of three straight vs. Arizona, 2001
2. Hurley vs. Kentucky in overtime, 1992
1. Hurley vs. Unlv, 1991

Andre Dawkins.

I've touched on this before, as have others, but I would argue that Andre’s back-to-back threes against Baylor late in the first half of the 2010 South Regional Final, at the precise instant the Bears were threatening to spurt Duke right out of the tournament in a style the Blue Devils invented, are among the biggest shots in our program's history. The momentum of that game had swiftly turned, and it wasn’t in favor of trident blue. Without those two threes, especially the second, which Andre lofted from deep in the left corner to stem a furious 17 to 5 Baylor run and rein the Bears to within three points right before intermission, I genuinely believe we never make it to Indianapolis and that the reawakening of the Duke mystique we are all enjoying so dearly these days instead remains benumbed, provisionally frozen in time. We all know how difficult national championships are to achieve. Look at Indiana, which was on top of the world in the 1970s and ‘80s, debatably the best program in the country during that time. They haven’t been close since. Who is to foretell fate?

Without Andre’s timely summoning of Bobby Hurley, consider this.

There is no fourth. There is no restored order. There is no 15th Final Four. There is no conversation of back-to-back national championships; there isn’t even talk of one. There is no air of dominance heading into the 2010-11 season that pervades over our latest team each night it takes the court, which is certainly lending to the confidence and resolve of this group of individuals in their pursuit of realizing something truly historic. (And before carving the net in Lucas Oil Stadium last April, we long ago had lost that mystique, that intimidation factor, that fear and reverence of D-U-K-E that for almost two decades had reigned supreme over all of college basketball.) There is no silencing of the Duke haters, which, I think, we can all agree had become unconscionably nettlesome, nor of the K has lost it crowd, some of whom were nestled within our own people. K doesn’t even the score with the Baron of the Bluegrass, Adolph Rupp, and reach that otherworldly status of four-time national champion coach, cementing his legacy as, at the very least, the game’s second most decorated coach ever. There is no satisfying upper-hand in the Duke-Carolina rivalry. There might not even be another go-around of Nolan Smith or Kyle Singler, who might have deemed their best chance at a title had passed with the graduation of that veteran cast – after all, among the reasons both noted for returning to Durham was to try and do something truly special by winning two straight championships. (That last point might be reaching, but, as previously surveyed, who truly is to bargain with providence?)

Instead, Duke ends its season for a sixth straight year without an appearance in the Final Four and our stretch without a national championship extends to a decade (and, despite its recent disorder, that school down the road would still have two titles to our zero since Roy Williams took over in Chapel Hill, and God knows the insufferable nature of that). Duke remains, to the outside world, a pretender of the postseason, a once mighty program fraught by the vanishing ability of a fading legend. Jon Scheyer has a really good career at Duke, but not a truly great one, at least with regard to the parameters of winning by which players are often remembered. Brian Zoubek improved considerably near the end, but never lived up to the lofty potential; in no way does he reach the veneration he has since the win over Butler. Duke doesn’t currently have 21 straight victories, the longest streak in the country, a minor but inexorably important element of our restored power in the basketball universe. Think about the love we’ve gotten the past several months. We are once again the premier program in America, and that is a direct result of winning one monumentally important game in Houston on a cold spring day in late March and the events that followed.

Remember, shortly before Andre, who had played sparingly the previous two months, invoked the fearlessness within his frostbitten veins to even take those two threes against Baylor, Brian Zoubek had taken a seat amid our coaches and walk-ons, temporarily rendered idle with three personal fouls. With Zoubek no longer attending the Duke interior, Baylor took advantage of open lanes to the basket for three quick drives for scores. We were shaken. Those of us watching precariously from home knew it, our fans in Houston knew it and our players and staff knew it. Timeout K. Then, seconds later, Tweety Carter sends home a transition three off the delivery of a behind-the-back pass, sending the green and yellow wave within Reliant Stadium into an intense, screaming surge. That last three-ball by Andre not only hushed an entire arena, but silenced a nationwide party that was on the verge of exploding. And think about that first shot, just a couple of minutes earlier. Andre pulled up and launched from a legitimate 26 feet, without hesitation. That's something J.J. Redick or Jason Williams does, not a 10-minute-per-game twelfth grader in braces barely removed from his 18th birthday.

Of course, Andre’s consecutive triples against Baylor are just one of several key moments last season that ended in the culmination of a fourth banner suspending from Cameron Indoor’s bygone but lavishly appointed rafters. There was the emergence of the sleeping giant, Brian Zoubek; the Comeback in Coral Gables, in which the Devils trailed Miami by 17 at one point and 13 at the half but managed to will themselves to victory, keeping the dream of an all-important No. 1 seed alive (as we would come to find, that top seed turned out to be of the utmost importance in our journey to the Hoosier Heartland); Lance Thomas’ rebound and put-back slam in Houston in the waning moments of the Baylor game; Jon’s last minute three to hold off Georgia Tech in the ACC final; Zoubek’s tree-like help-side defense on Gordon Hayward’s 15-foot fallaway in the championship game’s closing seconds, and his intentionally missed free-throw. To explore that last Zoubek play a little closer, just think of the precision that intentionally missing such a shot in a moment of that magnitude necessitates; one unlucky toss to the left or right and Butler has the ball, time stopped, and all the clock in the world – nearly twice as many ticks of the clock as Christian Laettner had against Kentucky all those Marches ago – to do what Duke has done so many times before: score last in early spring.

There is no question, however, that Andre’s judicious three-point shooting deep in the first half of that South Regional was the biggest play of Duke’s season to that point. Those shots don’t go down and the Blue Devil program, although certainly in great hands with star Kyrie Irving leading the show and a collection of extraordinary recruits on the way, is in an entirely different place today; an alternate reality I’m happy we’ll never have to live.

OK, so apparently I really like Andre Dawkins. Forgive me, for I am a sick person.

Cameron
12-06-2010, 11:26 PM
OK, so upon second glance, my post above really looks ridiculous. Haha. My apologies. I am currently drinking a cup of Starbucks and re-watching the Baylor game. :D

dukeballboy88
12-07-2010, 07:31 AM
Now thats funny I dont care who you are!

But thinking back I remember when Johnny D played they had that short 3 point line that went inside the top of the key and anybody could make a 3 then! I think the 3 line should be no different than the NBA line and that would eliminate alot from the discussion cause even Redick struggles from the 3 in the NBA!

Saratoga2
12-07-2010, 07:42 AM
There is only sporatic mention of shooting percentages. Does anyone have the career % for each of the main picks mentioned in the string.Clearly some guys faced more defensive pressure due to their prowess. Certainly JJ, Trajan and Shane stand out in my memory.

theAlaskanBear
12-07-2010, 08:11 AM
There is only sporatic mention of shooting percentages. Does anyone have the career % for each of the main picks mentioned in the string.Clearly some guys faced more defensive pressure due to their prowess. Certainly JJ, Trajan and Shane stand out in my memory.

This was my list:

Redick shot .406 career in 1120 attempts
JWill shot .393 in 797 attempts (3 years)
Trajan shot .426 in 802 attempts
Battier shot .416 in 592 attempts
Laettner shot .485 in 163 attempts
Scheyer shot .381 in 780 attempts

So we have a variation of 10 full (38-48%) percentage points. Removing Laettner and Scheyer (Laettner is real outlier due to attempts) the consensus top 4 shooters are all within 4 percentage points (39-43%) of each other. I know some of the old guys can shoot, not debating that -- but looking strictly at 3 point shooter we have data on. I think its a bit presumptuous put pre-3pt line players on the list of great 3pt shooters.

94duke
12-07-2010, 08:46 AM
This was my list:

Redick shot .406 career in 1120 attempts
JWill shot .393 in 797 attempts (3 years)
Trajan shot .426 in 802 attempts
Battier shot .416 in 592 attempts
Laettner shot .485 in 163 attempts
Scheyer shot .381 in 780 attempts

So we have a variation of 10 full (38-48%) percentage points. Removing Laettner and Scheyer (Laettner is real outlier due to attempts) the consensus top 4 shooters are all within 4 percentage points (39-43%) of each other. I know some of the old guys can shoot, not debating that -- but looking strictly at 3 point shooter we have data on. I think its a bit presumptuous put pre-3pt line players on the list of great 3pt shooters.

Don't forget Hurley.
Careeer: 40.5% in 652 attempts
Fresh: 35.7% in 115
Soph: 40.4% in 188
Jr: 42.1% in 140
Sr: 42.1% in 209

devil84
12-07-2010, 09:18 AM
I'll put my vote in for Chip Engelland, who shot .554 in 74 career attempts. Tom Emma was close with .436 in 55 attempts. They were seniors when they played just the one year with an experimental 3 point line.

Both of these players were long range shooters, but Chip was particularly known for his sharpshooting skills. Had he attempted just one more 3 pointer, he would be sitting atop the Duke 3pt percentage list -- it requires a minimum of 75 attempts to be placed on that list.

That list is:

1. Christian Laettner 79 - 163 .485
2. Trajan Langdon 342 - 802 .426
3. Shane Battier 246 - 592 .416
5. J.J. Redick 457 - 1126 .406
6. Bobby Hurley 264 - 652 .405
7. Phil Henderson 128 - 320 .400
8. Jeff Capel 220 - 553 .398
Greg Paulus 210 - 527 .398
9. Jason Williams 313 - 797 .393
10. Daniel Ewing 217 - 554 .392(Yes, there is no #4 -- that's how it's listed on the goduke.com website (http://www.goduke.com//pdf8/717674.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200).)

Jim Suddath was another long range shooter that might have had a good 3 point shot if it existed when he played.

jv001
12-07-2010, 09:30 AM
1. Bob Verga
2. Tate Armstrong
3. J.J. Redick
4. Chip Engelland
5. Christian Laettner

Kudos to Trajan Langdon, Danny Ferry, Bobby Hurley, Shane Battier, Jason Williams, Jeff Mullins....Who did I miss? http://goduke.statsgeek.com/

I like this list for long range shooters. Chip is a good choice from the past. If I'm not mistaken Chip has taught shooting to many Duke guys. Seems like he helped Grant with his shooting. But remember my memory is not what it used to be. GoDuke!

gvtucker
12-07-2010, 09:47 AM
There's no question who is in my top 5, though the order of 1 through 5 could be juggled around a lot:

1. Bob Verga
2. Chip Engelland
3. JJ Redick
4. Tate Armstrong
5. Trajan Langdon

For an honorable mention, let me throw out one that hasn't been listed yet--Mark Alarie.

DukeUsul
12-07-2010, 09:55 AM
I'd have to go with:

1) JJ
2) Langdon
3) Battier
4) Hurley
5) Laettner

The most memorable performance for me was Langdon's 7 three pointers against UNC with 28 total points in 1997. That victory over UNC was the shot across the bow that we were back and were about to challenge and eventually take over dominance in the ACC after having several down years and losing seven in a row to the Heels.

UrinalCake
12-07-2010, 11:38 AM
I think its a bit presumptuous put pre-3pt line players on the list of great 3pt shooters.

I agree with this. I don't buy the argument of "well, a lot of their shots were taken from behind where the three-point line would be." Since that shot was only worth two points at the time, defenses had no added incentive to guard that shot any harder. You'd have to assume that they would be defended differently if the line existed.

Now, if you're talking about how graceful their form was or what a thing of beauty it was to watch them release the ball, then okay, but any statistical comparison is inherently flawed.

Deshawnj
12-07-2010, 03:50 PM
My list would be a tough one. In the time they were at Duke, some a year some three years, who would I want to take a 3 to win a game. I would say.

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan Langdon
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jon Scheyer
5. Jason Williams

6. Andre Dawkins

Orange&BlackSheep
12-07-2010, 06:05 PM
My list would be a tough one. In the time they were at Duke, some a year some three years, who would I want to take a 3 to win a game. I would say.

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan Langdon
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jon Scheyer
5. Jason Williams

6. Andre Dawkins

Laettner has to move up to #1, don't you think? I mean ... one shot ... with it all on the line ... hmm ... might he be able to knock it down ...

[[And yes, I know neither shot against uCONn or KY was a three ...]]

basket1544
12-07-2010, 07:21 PM
My list would be a tough one. In the time they were at Duke, some a year some three years, who would I want to take a 3 to win a game. I would say.

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan Langdon
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jon Scheyer
5. Jason Williams

6. Andre Dawkins

Whole new thread... who do you want shooting the ball with the game on the line... and the obvious answer is Christian. It doesn't matter if it is a shot from the free throw line or from the three point line or the half court line.
So who's the second guy? I have a feeling it is going to be some of the players I never got to see play. Groat? Mullins? Heyman? My vote for second may be Jason Williams, but then again I just finished watching the Maryland Duke Final Four game today.

vick
12-07-2010, 08:26 PM
I agree with this. I don't buy the argument of "well, a lot of their shots were taken from behind where the three-point line would be." Since that shot was only worth two points at the time, defenses had no added incentive to guard that shot any harder. You'd have to assume that they would be defended differently if the line existed.

Now, if you're talking about how graceful their form was or what a thing of beauty it was to watch them release the ball, then okay, but any statistical comparison is inherently flawed.


For what it's worth, Verga (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vergabo01.html) shot 29.6% on threes in the ABA versus Redick's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/redicjj01.html) 38.4% for his career (I don't think the ABA line was longer than the current NBA one, although I haven't actually been able to find ABA court dimensions). Of course, players can get better or worse in the pros for all sorts of reasons, so that's definitely not conclusive, but it's certainly intriguing.

I hesitate to wade into this discussion, partly because I am too young to have seen Verga and Armstrong, partly because it's an argument that simply cannot be proven either way, but I have trouble reconciling a belief that players in the pre-3 era would have been as accurate as today's players with my understanding of how players practice and improve. To me, it seems clear that players who practice long distance shooting (in this case, beyond 20 feet) become better. It seems equally clear that great players would tend to practice shots that are most beneficial in games.

I could be wrong, but I don't see why players before the three point shot would have practiced from that range at the same rate as current players, and therefore I think agree that it's presumptuous to think that those players would roll right into the three point era as the top shooters (the flip side of this argument would be that players today are worse than Verga, Armstrong, etc. at medium-range jumpers--the often-lamented decline of the "midrange game"--for exactly the same reasons, namely, that rule changes have disincentivized this shot, and players quite rationally do not practice it as much. This also seems plausible to me).

Orange&BlackSheep
12-08-2010, 06:54 AM
For what it's worth, Verga (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vergabo01.html) shot 29.6% on threes in the ABA versus Redick's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/redicjj01.html) 38.4% for his career (I don't think the ABA line was longer than the current NBA one, although I haven't actually been able to find ABA court dimensions). Of course, players can get better or worse in the pros for all sorts of reasons, so that's definitely not conclusive, but it's certainly intriguing.

I hesitate to wade into this discussion, partly because I am too young to have seen Verga and Armstrong, partly because it's an argument that simply cannot be proven either way, but I have trouble reconciling a belief that players in the pre-3 era would have been as accurate as today's players with my understanding of how players practice and improve. To me, it seems clear that players who practice long distance shooting (in this case, beyond 20 feet) become better. It seems equally clear that great players would tend to practice shots that are most beneficial in games.

I could be wrong, but I don't see why players before the three point shot would have practiced from that range at the same rate as current players, and therefore I think agree that it's presumptuous to think that those players would roll right into the three point era as the top shooters (the flip side of this argument would be that players today are worse than Verga, Armstrong, etc. at medium-range jumpers--the often-lamented decline of the "midrange game"--for exactly the same reasons, namely, that rule changes have disincentivized this shot, and players quite rationally do not practice it as much. This also seems plausible to me).

That one's whole thinking and strategy was working to get a shot as close in as you could. While that is still true to a degree, clearly getting and knocking down open threes makes one's effective FG % quite good and many teams and coaches scheme for this very thing. I would imagine that teams would not have worked very hard to stop a 22-footer in 1966 since it was perceived that as a defense you had just forced the opponent in taking a much lower % shot than if they had worked the ball for a 15-footer.

Deshawnj
12-08-2010, 09:31 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Deshawnj View Post
My list would be a tough one. In the time they were at Duke, some a year some three years, who would I want to take a 3 to win a game. I would say.

1. JJ Redick
2. Trajan Langdon
3. Mike Dunleavy
4. Jon Scheyer
5. Jason Williams

6. Andre Dawkins
Whole new thread... who do you want shooting the ball with the game on the line... and the obvious answer is Christian. It doesn't matter if it is a shot from the free throw line or from the three point line or the half court line.
So who's the second guy? I have a feeling it is going to be some of the players I never got to see play. Groat? Mullins? Heyman? My vote for second may be Jason Williams, but then again I just finished watching the Maryland Duke Final Four game today.

I think this ends up with a deeper argument for players. Does Christian make shot yes. No doubt. In my mind I look at the game of today everyone jacks up threes constantly. The game has changed big time since 1992. If it was a best player at shooting 3's then it would just be given to the player with the best % from three. Best shooter takes into account many variables. I took it as if I were playing Butler again in the championship down 3 and have every Duke player on my roster I would love for Christian to take the shot, but I draw the play for Redick. Then again my favorite Duke moment is when he lit up BC in the 06 ACC tourney.

phaedrus
12-09-2010, 12:57 AM
While these two players probably won't make many top-5 lists, I thought their notable Duke three-point shooting achievements at least warranted a mention on this thread.

First, of course, is Taylor King, who undoubtedly* is the all-time Duke leader in three-point attempts per minute played.

And then there was Nick Horvath, the best summer-league three-point bomber that anyone has ever laid eyes on. Surely that counts for something.

*There is actually a great deal of doubt about this claim, since I'm really just making it up. However, I did learn that J.J. Redick took 1126 three-pointers in 4732 minutes of career action, for an average of less than one three-point attempt every four minutes. Taylor played 330 career minutes and had just enough time to launch 114 three-bombs, for an average a hair under one every two minutes. So there you have it - Taylor King managed to hurl up triples over twice as fast as the ACC's most prolific three-pointer shooter of all time. Most impressive.

rtnorthrup
12-09-2010, 11:51 AM
Don't know where he would fit into this discussion (Certainly not top 5), but Billy McCaffrey had one of the sweetest three point strokes I have seen outside of JJ.

I remember one announcer saying the following "Billy would rather shoot with a hand in his face, than eat when he is hungry."

jipops
12-09-2010, 12:02 PM
1. JJ
2. JJ
3. JJ
4. JJ
5. Trajan

HaveFunExpectToWin
12-09-2010, 12:04 PM
While these two players probably won't make many top-5 lists, I thought their notable Duke three-point shooting achievements at least warranted a mention on this thread.

Good point about TKO. One other Devil that hasn't been mentioned is Will Avery. I can't find it anywhere, but I distinctly remember him nailing at least eight 3's in a game to tie the then record for most threes in a game. I imagine that Trajan was the other record holder. Can anyone confirm that?

Avery had a pretty sick shot in 1999.

EDIT: OKay, found it... http://dukechronicle.com/node/116058

94duke
12-09-2010, 01:14 PM
from Duke Basketball Media Guide


Single Season
3-Point Field Goals Made
Rk Name vs. Opponent, Date 3FG
1. Shane Battier (Sr.) vs. Princeton, 11/14/2000 9
J.J. Redick (Sr.) vs. Texas, 12/10/2005 9
3. William Avery (So.) vs. Florida, 12/9/1998 8
Jason Williams (So.) vs. Temple, 12/2/2000 8
Jason Williams (Jr.) at Florida State, 1/6/2002 8
Jason Williams (Jr.) vs. North Carolina, 3/3/2002 8
J.J. Redick (Jr.) at Florida State, 1/22/2005 8
J.J. Redick (Sr.) vs. Virginia, 1/28/2006 8
Kyle Singler (Jr.) vs. Georgia Tech, 2/4/2010 8
10. 11x last, Jon Scheyer (Sr.) vs. Gardner-Webb, 12/15/2009 7

pfrduke
12-09-2010, 02:26 PM
from Duke Basketball Media Guide


Single Season
3-Point Field Goals Made
Rk Name vs. Opponent, Date 3FG
1. Shane Battier (Sr.) vs. Princeton, 11/14/2000 9
J.J. Redick (Sr.) vs. Texas, 12/10/2005 9
3. William Avery (So.) vs. Florida, 12/9/1998 8
Jason Williams (So.) vs. Temple, 12/2/2000 8
Jason Williams (Jr.) at Florida State, 1/6/2002 8
Jason Williams (Jr.) vs. North Carolina, 3/3/2002 8
J.J. Redick (Jr.) at Florida State, 1/22/2005 8
J.J. Redick (Sr.) vs. Virginia, 1/28/2006 8
Kyle Singler (Jr.) vs. Georgia Tech, 2/4/2010 8
Andre Dawkins (So.) vs. Bradley, 12/8/2010 8
11. 11x last, Jon Scheyer (Sr.) vs. Gardner-Webb, 12/15/2009 7


From next year's media guide :D (see bolded above)