MBB: Duke 82, Butler 70 Post-Game Thread

[Bob Green]

Discuss the game here. A good win against a tough team.

[dukeblue4ever]

That was so key when Nored went out. Also, Kyrie's two consecutive threes were clutch.

[FerryFor50]

That was so key when Nored went out. Also, Kyrie's two consecutive threes were clutch.

You must have been listening to Jay Bilas. :p

[CLW]

Shooting was off today (partially due to just an off night and partially due to good Butler D). I didn't like the effort in the 1st half but I thought the intensity was there in the 2nd half.

Andre has REALLY improved so..... much from last year. I'm ready to "eat crow" on the big lineup that I just "knew" was going to be the best. IMHO, Andre is ready and deserving of starting and playing more minutes at the "3" and moving Singler to the "4".

[Cockabeau]

Ronald Norad. Most important player on Butler team. First team AA. Lottery pick.

[devildownunder]

That was so key when Nored went out. Also, Kyrie's two consecutive threes were clutch.

that is one tough-minded basketball team. They play their game no matter what. Hit big shots, too.

The announcers were saying that Louisville managed to force uptempo against Butler. That's something we really couldn't do. I think forcing tempo is going to be important for us this year, so I'm hoping that's something we focus on in the next few weeks, leading up to conference play.

[jv001]

Butler is a better team than I thought. Having Norad back makes them so much better. Kyle just never got it going after getting in early foul trouble. Andre continues to play very well. Go Duke!

[dukebluelemur]

Didn't Kyle start really slow last year as well, before turning it on in conference play? I seem to remember that.

[DukieTiger]

that is one tough-minded basketball team. They play their game no matter what. Hit big shots, too.

The announcers were saying that Louisville managed to force uptempo against Butler. That's something we really couldn't do. I think forcing tempo is going to be important for us this year, so I'm hoping that's something we focus on in the next few weeks, leading up to conference play.

^I agree re: tempo if you're talking about the first half- but in the second half I would say Duke did a pretty good job of picking up the pace and attacking, running when possible. They scored 49 2nd half points, so...

[BattierD12]

Andre has REALLY improved so..... much from last year. I'm ready to "eat crow" on the big lineup that I just "knew" was going to be the best. IMHO, Andre is ready and deserving of starting and playing more minutes at the "3" and moving Singler to the "4".

Andre with game high 9 rebounds in the box score. Impressive.

[BlueDster]

I thought that this was a great win for the team. Duke had every reason to lose this game. The other team had way more emotion going in trying to avenge their championship game loss, Duke is at the end of a string of very tough games, Butler came out playing strong and pushing Duke out of their comfort zone. We got lucky with a couple of injuries/foul situations, but managed to capitalize on opportunities in the second half. We hit our foul shots when it counted, unlike some games this year. Most importantly, we never melted down under the pressure of a close game and let the game get out hand.

One quick note: on Howard's last foul he sort of attacked the ball carrier for no apparent reason, leading Bilas to go on a long speech about being smart with fouls. I saw Howard mouth to his teammates "I thought he said foul him". Seems like Howard thought his coach wanted a foul there, so he was simply following orders. Not that Bilas would've seen him say that, just wanted to save Howard a little criticism.

[devildownunder]

^I agree re: tempo if you're talking about the first half- but in the second half I would say Duke did a pretty good job of picking up the pace and attacking, running when possible. They scored 49 2nd half points, so...

We weren't able to force tempo until Nored and Mack went to the bench. Once the fouls and injuries piled up on Butler, of course we got the tempo we want. I think we'd be able to force tempo against pretty much anybody's back-up guards. We need to be able to do it, at least to some extent, against starters.

[SupaDave]

That dunk before the half was a thing of beauty. I thought was key to the second half...

[Faison1]

I'm impressed that Duke scored 82 points while shooting so poorly.

Very happy with Dre these days. He is going to be one of my all-time favorites before he is done.

[jv001]

Didn't Kyle start really slow last year as well, before turning it on in conference play? I seem to remember that.

Kyle did start slowly last year adjusting to his new position. I suppose he's adjusting to Kyrie running the show more this year. But he still plays as hard as any Duke player I can remember. Go Duke!

[Zerogee]

I was looking at Dawkins' stats for the year and saw that he just turned 19 in late September. He should have a good year this year, a great year next year, and a spectacular year as a senior leader. He showed emotion, hustle, and a nose for the ball - in addition to that sweet shooting stroke. He may have started slow (for understandable reasons) last year but he's going to be a key piece for years to come.

I'm not sure why Curry is having such trouble getting on track - it might be like the announcers have been saying, it's tough knowing you're only going to get 10-15 minutes and you start to force things when you're in the game. I'm sure he'll be fine, but it would be good for him to have a blow up game against the easier competition coming up for the rest of December.

[gewwang]

Not only is Norad the best player in college basketball in the last 20 years, but did you see how well, exceptionally well, Butler executes? The guts, the fortitude, the fight!

[Bob Green]

Mason Plumlee finished with a solid 8 points and 8 rebounds. While his 25 point performance against Marquette was impressive, I'll take 8 & 8 from Mason night in and night out.

Miles had 4 rebounds and 2 points, while Ryan Kelly contributed 2 rebounds and 3 points, so our three interior players combined to score 13 points and grab 14 rebounds.

[LSanders]

Very happy with Dre these days. He is going to be one of my all-time favorites before he is done.


Totally agree. That kid's a winner. Within the media, he gets lost in the Kyle-Kyrie-Nolan morass, but he's very important to this team.

[hq2]

I was looking at Dawkins' stats for the year and saw that he just turned 19 in late September. He should have a good year this year, a great year next year, and a spectacular year as a senior leader. He showed emotion, hustle, and a nose for the ball - in addition to that sweet shooting stroke. He may have started slow (for understandable reasons) last year but he's going to be a key piece for years to come.

I'm not sure why Curry is having such trouble getting on track - it might be like the announcers have been saying, it's tough knowing you're only going to get 10-15 minutes and you start to force things when you're in the game. I'm sure he'll be fine, but it would be good for him to have a blow up game against the easier competition coming up for the rest of December.


Andre is coming along exactly as predicted. With his improved rebounding and defense, he is making a strong case for minutes at 3. Don't know if he'll be here for years to come; I'd say one more year and the NBA will be very interested. I think Seth is having confidence issues right now. He's having trouble with his D, and it's carrying over to his minutes, offense, and shooting. Needs some time to work it out.

[gam7]

I thought that this was a great win for the team. Duke had every reason to lose this game. The other team had way more emotion going in trying to avenge their championship game loss, Duke is at the end of a string of very tough games, Butler came out playing strong and pushing Duke out of their comfort zone. We got lucky with a couple of injuries/foul situations, but managed to capitalize on opportunities in the second half. We hit our foul shots when it counted, unlike some games this year. Most importantly, we never melted down under the pressure of a close game and let the game get out hand.

One quick note: on Howard's last foul he sort of attacked the ball carrier for no apparent reason, leading Bilas to go on a long speech about being smart with fouls. I saw Howard mouth to his teammates "I thought he said foul him". Seems like Howard thought his coach wanted a foul there, so he was simply following orders. Not that Bilas would've seen him say that, just wanted to save Howard a little criticism.

Just a few thoughts:

1. Bilas wasn't criticizing that last foul. He fouled out of the game with that foul, so it gave Bilas an opportunity to talk about the foul(s) he got going after rebounds that he was very unlikely to get without fouling. He was saying that in his head, he has to say to himself "if I don't go after this low percentage one, I'll be able to stay on the court and be aggressive later in the game, which will lead to more rebounds in the long run."

2. When Nolan dunked just before halftime, there were still 2.0 seconds on the clock but they ran off before Butler could inbound. I was suprised that Stevens did not fight to put those two seconds back on the clock. Duke did a nice job of sprinting off the court quickly.

3. Kyle's early foul trouble upset his rhythm, much like it seemed to do against Baylor in the regional final last year.

4. Let's hope Kyrie's toe is OK. In the next phase report, I absolutely think team health will need to be on the next phase list.

5. First time all season that we trailed a game in the second half. We took the lead for good around the 13 minute mark.

6. This was a survive-and-advance game. We did.

[SupaDave]

Not only is Norad the best player in college basketball in the last 20 years, but did you see how well, exceptionally well, Butler executes? The guts, the fortitude, the fight!

Excuse me? I HAVE to disagree with that... Since 1990? You've gotta be kidding me...

[stillcrazie]

Excuse me? I HAVE to disagree with that... Since 1990? You've gotta be kidding me...

I think there was some sarcasm in that remark.

[Azdukefan]

I'm impressed that Duke scored 82 points while shooting so poorly.

Very happy with Dre these days. He is going to be one of my all-time favorites before he is done.

Careful now. He has been my man crush from day one and won't share him. :p

I have constantly heard that he has a little bit of JJ and a little bit of GH. In short time, I believe that we will begin to see that.

[CameronDuke]

I hope Kyrie's toe injury doesn't become a lingering problem for him. He is playing at such a high level right now. Another amazing effort from him after torching Michigan State for 31 last game.

I am really impressed with Andre Dawkins. He has improved his defense and is a versatile player to have on defense. He can guard big men and is comfortable playing defense on the perimeter. His stroke from downtown is also pure. If we ever want to go small, the lineup of Singler, Mason, Dawkins, Irving, and Smith would be fun to watch. Butler really brings it every possession and to get a victory by 12 over them on a day where we shot poorly is a good sign.

I wish Seth Curry could get it going more on offense. His defense looks fine to me but a little bit more of a spark from him off the bench would make us virtually unbeatable.

[SupaDave]

This game also ties Coach K with Rupp! Kentucky gets two losses in one day! They are losing bragging rights left and right.

[Zerogee]

Andre is coming along exactly as predicted. With his improved rebounding and defense, he is making a strong case for minutes at 3. Don't know if he'll be here for years to come; I'd say one more year and the NBA will be very interested.

Hq2: With lesser talent around him I'd agree, but even with Nolan graduating next year and Kyrie leaving for the draft, Dawkins won't be the "go-to guy" because of Rivers and sharing time with the other guards (Cook, Curry, and maybe Thornton). I usually assume players will leave as soon as they can - and so I was incredibly pleasantly surprised on Smith and Singler returning - but we're still so loaded next year that I'm not sure Dawkins will be able to shine enough to get lottery status. If Elliot Williams was at Duke last year instead of Memphis, IMO I doubt he would have gotten enough visibility to be able to go pro so soon.

[SupaDave]

I think there was some sarcasm in that remark.

I see! I just looked at the box score...

[DukieTiger]

We weren't able to force tempo until Nored and Mack went to the bench. Once the fouls and injuries piled up on Butler, of course we got the tempo we want. I think we'd be able to force tempo against pretty much anybody's back-up guards. We need to be able to do it, at least to some extent, against starters.

I give credit to Nored/Mack- obviously- but I also give credit to Kyrie's foul trouble in the first half and the fact that Duke wasn't being the aggressor. In the second half, our mindset changed, we started attacking and the tempo picked up. Mack/Nored being gone had something to do with it but I thought Duke did a better job of dictating tempo and attacking the basket, even once Nored came back in.

On another subject, this is the second straight opponent who has shot extremely well from 3pt range against Duke.

[devildownunder]

Kyle did start slowly last year adjusting to his new position. I suppose he's adjusting to Kyrie running the show more this year. But he still plays as hard as any Duke player I can remember. Go Duke!

K also tweaked the offense to put him in better positions, with very good results. Perhaps another tweak will be in order at some point. Of course, he shot the ball just fine in Oregon, so we'll see how things unfold.

[Bluedog]

2. When Nolan dunked just before halftime, there were still 2.0 seconds on the clock but they ran off before Butler could inbound. I was suprised that Stevens did not fight to put those two seconds back on the clock. Duke did a nice job of sprinting off the court quickly.

The clock doesn't stop after a made basket in the first half. It only stops with less than a minute to go in the second half or OT. The reason the clock was reset to 6 seconds or so after the Butler basket on the previous possession was a timeout call by Duke.

[gewwang]

I see! I just looked at the box score...

Just having some fun with Bilas' lovefest with Norad.

[weezie]

it was nice to see Miles come in and stay calmer, even if just for a few minutes. He gets so much attention from the refs.
He took a mean shot to the groin in that 2nd half but hung in.

[Greg_Newton]

Andre with game high 9 rebounds in the box score. Impressive.

I've noticed Andre grabbing some strong boards before this game, but he really came up big today - he goes up with two hands and grabs the ball like a man. It's just incredible how much multi-dimensional he has become - just think, how would he have fared last year when his shot was that off?

Mason also had another incredible game, IMO. He has a few turnovers that weren't really his fault, that were more just passes that put him in a bad spot. He got some really strong rebounds in traffic, was a presence on defense, came up with some great steals, didn't really make any bad decisions, and finished strong around the rim. I can't believe how much stronger he's playing this year - the dude's got a legitimate power post game now, and uses the glass well. Really exciting stuff.

I thought this was Nolan's best game so far, and Kyle's worst. While Nolan kept making big plays and seemingly didn't make a bad decision all day (not to mention 13-14 FTs), Kyle couldn't buy a jump shot and made some terrible decisions like a ball. We were up ~66-56, and Kyle really singlehandedly let them back in it with two consecutive turnovers that he had no business committing as a senior (huge shot he hit near the end though, after missing all night). Serious question, maybe him and Nolan just aren't used to passing besides swinging it around the perimeter? It seems to be interior passes where they make their bizarre mistakes.

Lastly, Nored really is fun to watch on D. The play where Kyrie came at him in the open court and he stayed right with him, forced him to pick up his dribble, then slapped the ball away as he brought it up to pass was just beautiful - I can't even hate on a play like that. He really does understand the game so well.

[tylervinyard]

I'm very happy we played another team like Michigan St that plays so hard and physical and is so well-coached. I'm also happy we got to see the triangle and two as I'm sure we'll see some more junk defenses this year. We really had good shots from three that just weren't falling, so I'm happy we were able to keep it close despite that and some foul trouble. We won't shoot so badly in the future, so I'm not too worried about that. And then when Nored and Mack went out of the game, you could see us smell blood in the water and we went in for the kill. I've missed that killer instinct. We sometimes had it last year, but we seem to have it consistently this year. We're just waiting for the other team to let up just a tiny bit and then we pounce.

[NashvilleDevil]

Any word on Kyrie's injury? After he came back in you could see him limping noticeably. Hope he gets rest for the toe since the only have a couple of games the rest of the month.

[Mike Corey]

I hope Kyrie's toe doesn't develop Lawsonitis.

[hq2]

Hq2: With lesser talent around him I'd agree, but even with Nolan graduating next year and Kyrie leaving for the draft, Dawkins won't be the "go-to guy" because of Rivers and sharing time with the other guards (Cook, Curry, and maybe Thornton). I usually assume players will leave as soon as they can - and so I was incredibly pleasantly surprised on Smith and Singler returning - but we're still so loaded next year that I'm not sure Dawkins will be able to shine enough to get lottery status. If Elliot Williams was at Duke last year instead of Memphis, IMO I doubt he would have gotten enough visibility to be able to go pro so soon.

If Kyrie comes back, I'd say he might have trouble getting minutes with Austin Rivers coming in. If Kyrie (likely) goes pro, I'd say Andre starts next year at 3 and gets 25 minutes and 15 points a game. He probably wouldn't be a lottery pick, but I could see him being a late first rounder by the end of next year. The pros have a hard time finding pure shooters who can also play good D. They'll be interested in him.

[mgtr]

While Nored is not Norad, Nored may well be Butler's NORAD!

[Delaware]

On another subject, this is the second straight opponent who has shot extremely well from 3pt range against Duke.

I think our D has looked a bit weak for the past few games. Two good shooting performances... 49% and 45% last two games. And over 50% from 3 for Butler.

Can't put my finger on it. But one thing is for sure.....Kyle always seems to be recovering / helping others or intentionally helping off and then having trouble getting back to his man .... and in the process getting himself into foul trouble.

[DukieTiger]

I think our D has looked a bit weak for the past few games. Two good shooting performances... 49% and 45% last two games. And over 50% from 3 for Butler.

Can't put my finger on it. But on thing is for sure.....Kyle always seems to be recovering / helping others or intentionally helping off and then having trouble getting back to his man .... and in the process getting himself into foul trouble.

They're almost all coming off of switches or dribble penetration- that tells me it's a communication issue that will likely get worked out.

[hq2]

Hq2: With lesser talent around him I'd agree, but even with Nolan graduating next year and Kyrie leaving for the draft, Dawkins won't be the "go-to guy" because of Rivers and sharing time with the other guards (Cook, Curry, and maybe Thornton). I usually assume players will leave as soon as they can - and so I was incredibly pleasantly surprised on Smith and Singler returning - but we're still so loaded next year that I'm not sure Dawkins will be able to shine enough to get lottery status. If Elliot Williams was at Duke last year instead of Memphis, IMO I doubt he would have gotten enough visibility to be able to go pro so soon.

If Kyrie comes back, I'd say he might have trouble getting minutes with Austin Rivers coming in. If Kyrie (likely) goes pro, I'd say Andre starts next year at 3 and gets 25 minutes and 15 points a game. He probably wouldn't be a lottery pick, but I could see him being a late first rounder by the end of next year. The pros have a hard time finding pure shooters who can also play good D. They'll be interested in him.

[SoCalDukeFan]

They played very hard, are extremely well coached, and had to deal with some adversity.

(Not sure I understand why Brad Stevens signed a 12 year deal. Maybe he thinks will stick around for anther 12 and then go to Duke.)

I good win for Duke. They got Butler's best shot and prevailed.

SoCal

[OldPhiKap]

(Not sure I understand why Brad Stevens signed a 12 year deal. Maybe he thinks will stick around for anther 12 and then go to Duke.)


1. I think he is genuinely loyal to a place he loves.

2. Any contract can be bought out, if someone wants you enough.

3. Even after 12 years, he will only be 46 years old.


I like this kid, and wish them all well.

[Cameron]

The clock doesn't stop after a made basket in the first half. It only stops with less than a minute to go in the second half or OT. The reason the clock was reset to 6 seconds or so after the Butler basket on the previous possession was a timeout call by Duke.

I surmise it might also have stopped because one of Butler's players (Shelvin Mack, I believe) didn't think anyone would notice if he just took the ball with him back down the court after scoring his basket and placed it stationary at the three-point line.

Huge game for Dre today. He didn't put up numbers that jump out at you in any offensive category, but Dawkins came up with 10 really big points at the perfectly right times; the most impacting being his steal for a breakaway jam and a foul, which put Butler down doubles basically for good. That was a star-type play. Butler did chip away at the lead one more time, but, after our 10 to zero spurt, you knew it was already over. And on the alternate side of the court, he's growing into an incredibly solid and versatile defender.

Glad to see Duke advance to 19-1 all-time at the Meadowlands and for K to deadlock Rupp for a tie in the all-time wins department. Had Carolina fallen to .500 before Christmas, I'd likely be lost in the middle of a tequila fume by now. But that's all right; we're playing too well to honestly even care. In the words of Ice Cube, it was a good day.

[roywhite]

Official Boxscore (https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/727097.pdf?ATCLID=205042621&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

Kyle and Nolan were each 1-6 from 3-pt

Andre---a surprising 32 minutes with 10 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 0 turnovers

Butler was 8-15 from 3-pt and Vanzant had a strong game with 14 points

[gam7]

The clock doesn't stop after a made basket in the first half. It only stops with less than a minute to go in the second half or OT. The reason the clock was reset to 6 seconds or so after the Butler basket on the previous possession was a timeout call by Duke.

Thanks Bluedog - thought it stopped with less than a minute to go in both halves (and didn't realize they reset the clock due to our TO).

[greybeard]

Butler presents much more interesting on offense than Duke. While Kryie is obviously a terrific talent, the problem I have with Duke is that the ball never gets inside the defense, inside the 3-line actually, except off the dribble.

Also, the play on the exterior seemed befogged. Except for an occasional mid-level high screen for the ball handler, it seemed that there was nothing much of anything for the exterior players to do except wait for someone, almost always Kyrie, to draw his defender to impede an attempt to penetrate before the attaker got inside the foul line. Then, the exterior player would move a step or two closer for a better look at a three.

Now, all this might have been in significant part due to Butler's exceptional defense, played with alertness, confidence, and deceptive toughness, but I also think that it is the other side of the coin of playing to the strength that is Kyrie.

As loaded as this team is one would expect so much more. If what I saw today is representative, I think that it is the least interesting offense Duke has displayed in several years, since the current seniors were freshman.

If Mason continues with his outstanding display of strength, speed, hops, and judgment, Duke can be as good as its number one ranking suggests. Right now, to the extent that good teams can stop Duke from running, it all might very well come down to just that.

[Bob Green]

Andre---a surprising 32 minutes with 10 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 0 turnovers



I'm not surprised by Dawkins playing 32 minutes as he played 28 against Michigan State and Singler was in foul trouble today. Dawkins is proving he is the real deal.

[roywhite]

I'm not surprised by Dawkins playing 32 minutes as he played 28 against Michigan State and Singler was in foul trouble today. Dawkins is proving he is the real deal.

I certainly agree, Bob; it seems more evident all the time that he is an improved, confident player and has the trust of the coaching staff.

[loran16]

The big problem that was exposed in this team today was its ability to handle an O that uses constant screens.

Butler used these constantly and Duke was NOT consistent about whether players switched or didn't on each screen, leading to a LOT of open shots.

Butler shot really well even when defended today, but the team needs to be able to handle screens better. a lot better.

[mapei]

I, too, was impressed with Andre today. On a day when a lot of people didn't play their best, he and Kyrie stood out for me. I'm pretty sure it's not a good thing when Dre leads our team in rebounds, but I'm glad he put in the skill and effort

As for Butler's coach, I can imagine his staying and building a Duke-like program there. Why not? They seem pretty close to where we were in the early K years. For some people, it's not just about the money.

I have to call out OldPhiKap for calling him a "kid," though. ;) I believe he's well into his 30s, yes?

[Son of Jarhead]

Just having some fun with Bilas' lovefest with Norad.

Like anybody in his profession, Bilas went a little over the top with his praise. He would have been well served to use one of his Duke teammates for comparison to demonstrate why Nored is impressive, as well as his importance to Butler... Billy King. Great defender, but not much of a threat on offense. King averaged 4.5 ppg for his career at Duke, including 7.2 as a junior & 5.1 as a senior. Nored has a 5.1 ppg career average for Butler, including 6.0 last year as a sophmore. I think we all know Billy King was very important to his team... obviously Nored is as well.

Another good, tough win. Evrybody played well most of the game against a very good defensive team. Nolan was steady as usual, Kyrie was impressive, & Andre was fabulous! Go Duke!!!!

[OldPhiKap]

I have to call out OldPhiKap for calling him a "kid," though. ;) I believe he's well into his 30s, yes?

34, I think. But I share a birthday with Viatcheslav Ekimov, which puts me a bit futher up the road from the peleton of young coaches. ;>)

[dcdrumsinc]

I was impressed with Andre's nose to finding the ball today, especially the defensive rebounding. Andre looks bigger, stronger, and taller this year and he is using it to his advantage in scoring, defense, and rebounding.

I was also impressed with Kyrie. Surprise. Surprise. But to reiterate. I remember when Kyrie signed w/ Duke I researched numerous scouting reports on him to learn more about what he was all about. Scout.com described Kyrie as a Big Game Player and another article I read by a scout was entirely about Kyrie's game against Findlay Prep (top team in the nation) in which which Kyrie struggled in the first half of the game and took over in the 2nd half. I think Kyrie has shown he is a big game player, and Kyrie is special because nothing rattles him. Any other Freshman would have been plagued by the 2 first half fouls and his 4 turnovers today. Not Kyrie. He stepped up for a "quiet " 21 points

[Cockabeau]

I think Ronald Norad should be the new NBA logo given his impending stardom. To heck with Jerry West.

Ronald Norad, the best 6 ppg player in the history of the world and the MOST important player on the team. To heck with Shelvin Mack.

[Hermy-own]

Overall, this was a really good game. I'm an eternal worrier, so I almost want a Duke loss to help motivate the team, but besides the fact that we won, I have almost nothing to complain about ;).

I have two quick points to add to the discussion (though I'm far from an expert on basketball, these are just my observations):

One situation that we could execute much better on offense is the pick and roll situations. Mason often comes out to set screens, but a lot of the time nothing comes from it. I noticed at least a few situations where a switch occurred, Mason rolled to the basket with a much smaller guard on him, and we were unable to get him the ball.

As someone else noted, we have a tendency to lose people on defense and let them get off an open 3 point shot. Letting other teams go off with three pointers is playing with fire. Often the men get lost right after turnovers or in transition, if no one picks them up, and also sometimes after screens and help side defense, where we don't switch/rotate properly.

[dukestheheat]

I think Ronald Norad should be the new NBA logo given his impending stardom. To heck with Jerry West.

Ronald Norad, the best 6 ppg player in the history of the world and the MOST important player on the team. To heck with Shelvin Mack.

...the government named their defense radar system, Norad, right after him!

dth.

[WillBoll]

OK, this topic was brought up before me, but I have to comment on it. Who would you like to see replace Coach K when, sadly but inevitably, in 5-10 years he's broken every record in the books and decides to bid us all farewell?

I for one have a clear #1 pick. Brad Stevens. I am amazed at how he gets the most out of his players. He recruits well with no natural advantages other than charisma for a school with no pedigree and not many resources. His guys play excellent 40 minute team defense. Each time we have beaten them with vastly more talent on our side I feel like we were lucky to have vanquished a worthy opponent.

Besides, he is young! I would love to see Duke buck the trend of making a dynasty hire, no offense to Dawkins, Amaker, Collins, etc., and pick a young inspiring guy who can build the next Duke dynasty with 30+ good years left in him. We can see the mixed bag of success UNC has had with Doherty, Williams etc. Roy came to UNC already proven and not hungry and frankly, grumpy. He doesn't inspire his players.

Brad Stevens really impresses me with his ability to coach and get the most from his players. So what if he's young and from a small program. Once upon a time, 30+ years ago, our AD had the foresight to find a young Chicagoan from a small program...

[Newton_14]

Another test, and another test passed. Butler is a very good team. Once they get fully healthy they will be a tough matchup for anyone. They are extremely well coached and play defense like they are protecting their lives. They also execute well on offense. I was impressed. Put Hayward back on that team and they are a Top 5 team easily. Kind of a shame that the kid left. Not sure I get all the hating on Nored. He is a great defender. Probably the best defender in the country.

Our guys came out a bit sluggish which is not overly surprising coming off the big game against Mich St. Nolan had a really strong game and was the leader today. Andre continues his strong play on both ends. His rebounding today made a huge difference.

A game where we were not at our best against a formidable opponent, but found a way to get it done. Kyle did struggle, but still came up with some big plays. I think it is important to remind people that he lost a month or so with the knee surgery and is likely still trying to get back to fully in the groove. He will be fine.

Like Greybeard mentioned, there was too much standing around on offense today, but yet there were still several times where we made a concerted effort to feed the post, both with Miles and Mason. Miles had the really nice move and finish with the reverse left handed layup. Mason had 2 really good finishes as well. I wish we would have done that more than we did actually.

The biggest thing to take away in my opinion, is the fact our guys played in another neutral site game with an atmosphere similar to the NCAA Tourney, beat a good team, and did so while dealing with the adversity of foul trouble for 2 key players, and the injury to Kyrie. Once Kyle fouled out and Kyrie was out with the injury, the lineup of Nolan, Seth, Andre, Kelly, and Mason, held down the fort well. That was key experience that will serve them well down the road.

[SushiChef]

Any word on Kyrie's big toe injury? I know he came back in the game, but he seemed to be hobbling on it a bit.

[FerryFor50]

Any word on Kyrie's big toe injury? I know he came back in the game, but he seemed to be hobbling on it a bit.

Looked like he got kicked a little by Howard. Hopefully it isn't one of those "turf toe" deals. I remember when Grant Hill had that problem... ended up really affecting his play.

[77devil]

Back from the Izod Center and have watched some parts of the game on replay. Not a vintage Duke performance, obviously, but it never appeared in doubt, or that the players were frustrated or showed concern on their faces(was sitting right behind the alumni band about 6 rows from the court).

Coach made some nice adjustments at halftime to get the ball inside more, but the movement away from the ball by the Devils was lackluster all game. Maybe they were a little fatigued, mentally and physically, from 5 games in 13 days with all the travel and time away from home involved and exam period on the horizon.

Give Butler credit for hanging in there even when they lost some key players and Duke built a lead. As others have mentioned, the help defense could have been better and I have no doubt this will be a point of emphasis in practice.

Shout out for Andre, who's poise and performance are night and day from last year. He looks intense even during warm ups. Clearly he is most improved thus far.

[Saratoga2]

One question comes to mind about Andre. He is obviously shooting very well and is taking shots when they become available. He is also doing well with defense and rebounding. Against Butler, I wondered why Duke wasn't getting the ball to Andre in a location where he could shoot. The point was the Kyle and Nolan were both having tough nights shooting the 3. Why not find ways for Dawkins to get the ball in shooting position.

Otherwise, Nolan had an excellent game while Kyle was just missing open 3's and struggled with the pressure Butler applied. He still provided positive minutes, but when his shot is rattling out he should look for other alternatives.

Mason still lacks touch on his shots from about 8 to 10 feet out. His shot could be improved if he would put some arc on it.

Kyrie continues to impress un all ways.

[dchen09]

According to ESPN its a sprained toe: http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/19300/butler-suffers-through-injuries-inconsistencies

Depending on how serious it is, he could come back in a day or two or it might take months to heal. The fact that he came back into the game afterwards is encouraging though.

[uh_no]

I would love to see Duke buck the trend of making a dynasty hire, no offense to Dawkins, Amaker, Collins, etc., and pick a young inspiring guy who can build the next Duke dynasty with 30+ good years left in him.

I hate to bust your bubble, but if the way K has run this program is any indication, the next Duke coach will almost certainly be straight out of the K coaching tree.

Just about every coach K has had for the past 20 years came out of the duke family, and there is no reason to think that will change when a successor is chosen. K has also said he'd like a hand in picking his successor.

[Gthoma2a]

I like Stevens, but we are Duke, we can get him or use one of our own and be fine. We have produced some great coaches. Even those who are at other schools are great coaches, but don't have the Duke prestige to recruit with.

I am wondering how bad it is that one guy is getting lost in the fold. I wonder how Seth is doing with his struggle to get it together. I hope he gets it going so we have our sharpshooters off the bench. I like Seth and want him to succeed here.

[jipops]

Just watched on dvr, had to enjoy the snow with the kids over here in Raleigh.

The guys looked tired to me. I think this is indicative of the poor 3% percentage, a lot of those were wide open looks that clanked off. It's also indicative of Butler's stellar 3pt %, we didn't do a great job of getting back out to the shooters. But it is understandable to have some level of fatigue right now having just come off a tough Mich St battle preceded by a long trip to the West Coast and the K-State game.

I do think we would have been in big trouble in this one if Mack hadn't gone down the cramps. I didn't feel like we did a good job of using our size as an advantage in this one but that triangle&2 didn't provide much area to operate.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

I hate to bust your bubble, but if the way K has run this program is any indication, the next Duke coach will almost certainly be straight out of the K coaching tree.

Just about every coach K has had for the past 20 years came out of the duke family, and there is no reason to think that will change when a successor is chosen. K has also said he'd like a hand in picking his successor.

I would like to think the choice would be Dawkins. He has already branched out and is getting head coaching expierience and has brought in a good recruiting class to Stanford.

[Channing]

I like Stevens, but we are Duke, we can get him or use one of our own and be fine. We have produced some great coaches. Even those who are at other schools are great coaches, but don't have the Duke prestige to recruit with.

I am wondering how bad it is that one guy is getting lost in the fold. I wonder how Seth is doing with his struggle to get it together. I hope he gets it going so we have our sharpshooters off the bench. I like Seth and want him to succeed here.

who exactly are the great coaches from Duke's coaching tree? Brey has been good but not great. Amaker and Capel have certainly not established themselves as great coaches. Dawkins may become a great coach, but its too early to tell. I'd love the next coach to come from the Duke tree, but I'd like to see a coach who has a bit of a track record take over for K.

As for the game, anytime you shoot as poorly from deep as we did you aren't going to pull away from anyone. Would have liked to see a bit more of a midrange game and an inside game, but was happy with Miles assertiveness on the offensive end and Mason's continued aggression.

[riksmits]

Have not watched the replay yet, but couple of observations after posting in the pregame thread:

That is what I meant when I said butler needed an off day from Singler. He was clearly frustrated the entire day and credit to hahn and every other little guy that guarded him. That being said, duke had way too many open looks in the first half just shot ice cold. It happens.

Re: the officiating. It was pretty even, its just that duke gets their calls in key moments and takes advantage of breaks. The Singler and 1 was lolbad but Singlers 4th when Marshall just fell into him was just as bad.

Irvings 2 3s were huge. He's a man and I enjoyed getting to see him live. Don't think this is an all time great team but I think they are easily the most talented this year. Should be a fun rest of the season.

And re: bilas...like I said I haven't listened to the game and re watched it, but bilas says plenty of nice things about duke which I'm sure don't get mentioned here. He is nowhere near close to the bottom of analysts. The hate is a little too much.

[-bdbd]

First, regarding Willboll's comments on Brad Stevens as a worthy successor to K:
I like the idea, as I'm verrry impressed with the job Stevens is doing (and from the broadcast you could see K really respects him), but it simply will never happen. It's a shame, as I'd prefer to see us installing the BEST possible coach, and not just the best one who must also be a K "protige" -- such as Johnny D., Brey, Amaker, Capel, Snyder, Collins, Wojo. That said, we do seem as Duke fans to fall in love with another worthy opponent/young coach as a "successor to K" candidate every few years. Three years ago it was the Villanova coach IIRC, after they beat us in the NCAAT. I vote for K never retiring, and establishing a wins record that will never be broken! (another 10 years gets him up to around 1,200 wins, right??)


Another test, and another test passed. Butler is a very good team. Once they get fully healthy they will be a tough matchup for anyone. They are extremely well coached and play defense like they are protecting their lives. They also execute well on offense. I was impressed. Put Hayward back on that team and they are a Top 5 team easily. Kind of a shame that the kid left. Not sure I get all the hating on Nored. He is a great defender. Probably the best defender in the country.

Our guys came out a bit sluggish which is not overly surprising coming off the big game against Mich St. Nolan had a really strong game and was the leader today. Andre continues his strong play on both ends. His rebounding today made a huge difference.

A game where we were not at our best against a formidable opponent, but found a way to get it done. Kyle did struggle, but still came up with some big plays. I think it is important to remind people that he lost a month or so with the knee surgery and is likely still trying to get back to fully in the groove. He will be fine.

Like Greybeard mentioned, there was too much standing around on offense today, but yet there were still several times where we made a concerted effort to feed the post, both with Miles and Mason. Miles had the really nice move and finish with the reverse left handed layup. Mason had 2 really good finishes as well. I wish we would have done that more than we did actually.

The biggest thing to take away in my opinion, is the fact our guys played in another neutral site game with an atmosphere similar to the NCAA Tourney, beat a good team, and did so while dealing with the adversity of foul trouble for 2 key players, and the injury to Kyrie. Once Kyle fouled out and Kyrie was out with the injury, the lineup of Nolan, Seth, Andre, Kelly, and Mason, held down the fort well. That was key experience that will serve them well down the road.

I agree re. Nored and his tremendous D - his departure was really the game's decisive turning point. I just hope some NBA GM recognizes the value of a shut-down defender like that that and drafts him highly.

I also agreee that the Offense looked way too ragged for 8 games into the season. We really need to put the motion back into the "motion offense!" And what is Mason's deal with not finishing strong -- he's good enough to have dominated today's match-ups.

Though I thought Jay Bilas went a little overboard with pointing out all of the marginal calls that went Duke's way - and I was also frustrated that he was simply talking sooo much (!!) - but there certainly were some calls that went our way around the middle of the second half that played a big role in Butler's foul trouble and, consequently, our ultimate victory. I certainly wouldn't begrudge any Butler fan complaining about a few of the closer ones that went our way that impacted their foul trouble. But that is College B-ball -- there will certainly be nights when the reverse is the case...

Great game Duke. Nice, hard fought win. ....Next play!

:cool:

[gam7]

who exactly are the great coaches from Duke's coaching tree? Brey has been good but not great. Amaker and Capel have certainly not established themselves as great coaches. Dawkins may become a great coach, but its too early to tell. I'd love the next coach to come from the Duke tree, but I'd like to see a coach who has a bit of a track record take over for K.

As for the game, anytime you shoot as poorly from deep as we did you aren't going to pull away from anyone. Would have liked to see a bit more of a midrange game and an inside game, but was happy with Miles assertiveness on the offensive end and Mason's continued aggression.

There has been a lot of discussion on the replacement issue over the past several months. Some non-Duke names that came up were Brad Stevens, Bill Self and Jay Wright. We all know the former Dukies - Dawkins, Capel, Wojo, Collins, Amaker, etc. We'll need to see what the landscape looks like when K actually retires because things change quickly. Ten years ago, I think many people would have considered Quin Snyder to be a great replacement. Now, not so much.

And, Coach K often talks about the importance of having guys on his staff who attended Duke because they know first-hand what it is like, on and off the court, to be a student-athlete at Duke. I expect that he would value the same thing from his successor.

[cf-62]

I thought that this was a great win for the team. Duke had every reason to lose this game. The other team had way more emotion going in trying to avenge their championship game loss, Duke is at the end of a string of very tough games, Butler came out playing strong and pushing Duke out of their comfort zone. We got lucky with a couple of injuries/foul situations, but managed to capitalize on opportunities in the second half. We hit our foul shots when it counted, unlike some games this year. Most importantly, we never melted down under the pressure of a close game and let the game get out hand.

One quick note: on Howard's last foul he sort of attacked the ball carrier for no apparent reason, leading Bilas to go on a long speech about being smart with fouls. I saw Howard mouth to his teammates "I thought he said foul him". Seems like Howard thought his coach wanted a foul there, so he was simply following orders. Not that Bilas would've seen him say that, just wanted to save Howard a little criticism.

Stevens did yell "Foul him! Foul him!" right before Howard jumped the ball carrier. But RIGHT at that time, you could hear a more reserved (not quite as loud) "not now." I believe that Stevens meant for Howard not to give up an open layup if he was beaten off the dribble - which at the time he yelled it, Howard had been beaten, but the ball cariier backed it out.

[Gthoma2a]

who exactly are the great coaches from Duke's coaching tree? Brey has been good but not great. Amaker and Capel have certainly not established themselves as great coaches. Dawkins may become a great coach, but its too early to tell. I'd love the next coach to come from the Duke tree, but I'd like to see a coach who has a bit of a track record take over for K.

As for the game, anytime you shoot as poorly from deep as we did you aren't going to pull away from anyone. Would have liked to see a bit more of a midrange game and an inside game, but was happy with Miles assertiveness on the offensive end and Mason's continued aggression.

You can have your opinion, but remember, none of these guys have Duke talent playing for them. This means that you have to look at the decisions they make during the games. During my limited ability to watch their games (smaller schools with lesser tv deals), Capel is pretty good, Dawkins can be great, Amaker is very good, and Collins would be a great coach. The key here is their knowledge, and not just the execution they get out of their lower quality players. You can't expect them to have those teams functioning at Duke level. With one Blake Griffin, Capel had a contender. If he was able to get a team like we have, I think he would get results. The same general sentiment is shared with the rest of them IMO.

[Cockabeau]

Brad Stevens is a solid coach but please don't go overboard like he is kid genius x and o's or something. Butler got the benefit of alot of calls/noncalls,the refs were atrociously one sided.

When you are playing solid and the you are getting the calls, any team can lose. And we beat them by double digits on our worst shooting night. I am impressed with the win and I am glad K can now go to the video and fix our problems defended the pick and roll.

[ncexnyc]

Watching the play by play at work was vastly different than watching the DVR once I got home. Obviously knowing that we had already won makes a big difference, but it also lets me watch the game a lot more closely for the little things.

First, Bilas did an excellent job announcing this game. It seems some of you are way to sensitive about any criticism leveled at any particular play, especially when he points out we caught a break.

Second, we were definitely in, live by the 3, die by the 3 mode yesterday. Since the shots were for the most part wide open looks in the flow of the offense, I'm not sure there's much we can say about it, except that maybe at some point in time K might want to have the kids focus on getting to the rim more.

Third, our bigs are showing some solid improvement. Miles has shown us some niffty moves the past two games and Mason has done a very good job on cutting out the dumb fouls. One area they do need to work on is keeping the opposition bigs off their sweet spots on the floor.


And in closing I've been surprised to see that it's Andre who's been the supersub so far this season. Seth got a lot more press both last season and during the summer, but Andre has been the one who has really shined so far. Hopefully Seth reaches the same comfort level that Dre has found, because if this happens we'll be truly awesome to watch.

[camion]

I was really perplexed by the block/charge calls in the game. In the first half everything was a charge, including some I thought were blocks. In the second half everything was a block, including some I thought were charges. The difference was astonishing. All in all I thought the referees didn't have a very good day, but eyebrow raisers seemed relatively balanced.

This was a tough game that we could have lost if Butler could had left their starting guards in the game. Of course we might have won by 20 if Kyrie and Kyle don't pick up early foul trouble.

[CEF1959]

Anyone have the first half box score? Watching the game live, it seemed like Butler couldn't miss, and we couldn't hit a shot or grab a rebound. But by the end of the game, we shot almost 50%, better than Butler, and had rebounded solidly.

On Brad Stevens:

1. I like this guy a lot. I like the way his team plays for him on offense and defense, and I like his professional demeanor on and off the court. Watching his team go through half-court offensive sets against a very good Duke defense impressed me.

2. Future Duke coach? Dunno. The whole notion of sticking to the Duke family tree seems unfortunately limiting. Stevens seems like a Duke kinda guy.

3. And the fact that he has a 12 year contract means nothing. He doesn't have to "buy it out" if he leaves early. A long contract like that is typically a unilateral guarantee to the coach, without any penalty to be paid by the coach if he leaves early.

4. Asking the next coach to have more national prominence than Brad Stevens? Those of us who were around back then remember EXACTLY that being said when Tom Butters dropped a young no-name coach on us 31 years ago.

5. Unlike K back then, Brad Stevens will have lots of schools banging on his door, so I wouldn't assume he'd be interested in Duke even if Duke were interested in him and he was willing to leave Butler.

[Cockabeau]

Lets wait awhile before we anoint as the next great coach.

We saw how two years with good players can make a coach look better than he is.

How did that work out for Georgia Tech?

[stillcrazie]

My mother, who does not watch any form of basketball and only likes Duke because I go there, had the TV on in the kitchen and was listening to the game in the background. At one point, she came into the room where I was watching the game and said, "Those announcers sure sound like they don't like Duke!" I had to explain that Bilas actually played for Duke. I was not paying attention to the announcers myself and was surprised she picked up on that.

[roywhite]

Anyone have the first half box score? Watching the game live, it seemed like Butler couldn't miss, and we couldn't hit a shot or grab a rebound. But by the end of the game, we shot almost 50%, better than Butler, and had rebounded solidly.



Here's the boxscore which includes a half-by-half breakdown; page 4 for 1st half (https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/727097.pdf?ATCLID=205042621&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

Duke shot over 59% in the second half and was 19-23 from the line.

[Jderf]

As for the game, anytime you shoot as poorly from deep as we did you aren't going to pull away from anyone.

... That being said, duke had way too many open looks in the first half just shot ice cold. It happens. ...

Second, we were definitely in, live by the 3, die by the 3 mode yesterday. Since the shots were for the most part wide open looks in the flow of the offense, I'm not sure there's much we can say about it, except that maybe at some point in time K might want to have the kids focus on getting to the rim more.

Yes, Duke could have made some of those wide-open threes, but any time your offense starts to rely on the three, you introduce a huge element of chance. If things don't go your way, you can suffer, and Duke fans know this well.

But the thing is, Duke would never have had to take so many threes in the first place, had Butler not effectively controlled the pace. In the first half, Butler allowed very few easy transition buckets, imposing their style on the game; that forced Duke into a half-court offense where we launched a lot of threes. So while yes, we could have made a few more of our open threes, that would not have fixed the underlying problem, which was that we let Butler dictate the pace of the game instead of us.

[hq2]

Though I thought Jay Bilas went a little overboard with pointing out all of the marginal calls that went Duke's way


Bilas loves Duke, but he's a professional, and has to do his job too. That's why he's always having to say things against Duke even though we know how much he loves the program; he has to appear impartial. Those of us who have watched him a long time can forgive him for it because he's basically a voice of sanity in a world full of knuckleheads (see Vitale, Raftery, Digger).

[Channing]

You can have your opinion, but remember, none of these guys have Duke talent playing for them. This means that you have to look at the decisions they make during the games. During my limited ability to watch their games (smaller schools with lesser tv deals), Capel is pretty good, Dawkins can be great, Amaker is very good, and Collins would be a great coach. The key here is their knowledge, and not just the execution they get out of their lower quality players. You can't expect them to have those teams functioning at Duke level. With one Blake Griffin, Capel had a contender. If he was able to get a team like we have, I think he would get results. The same general sentiment is shared with the rest of them IMO.

I love our coaches, and I don't want to be seen as crapping on any of coach Ks proteges, but...

(a) Capel was good at VCU, but has been a disappointment at OU. Without Blake Griffin last year his team was the biggest disappointment in the big XII and this year his team has already lost to Chaminade.

(b) Amaker was no more than average at Seton Hall and was unable to get anything going at Michigan. I don't think he ever even made the tournament at UM. He has been good at Harvard, but showed an inability to lead a big program.

(c) Dawkings - to early to tell. I hope he is awesome and leads Stanford back to the Mike Montgomery days.

(d) Collins - could be great, but at this point its total conjecture.

[moonpie23]

i'd put my money on Chris Collins as the man to succeed the man....

[Gthoma2a]

Wasn't he under sanctions at Michigan? That will kill your recruiting, and it will also explain why you can't make the tournament. He won the NIT during the first year he could play in the post season. Roy couldn't do that. Plus, remember how badly it hurt his recruiting. He has also brought a Seton Hall team to the Sweet 16. I don't know, but with lesser talent, doing that means something to me. I also tend to think that Butler does well, but every year would be like last year with Stevens so far. He doesn't run much at all. Recruits like to run.

[watzone]

Here's a photo gallery from the game if interested - http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/12/duke-vs-butler-photo-gallery/

[tylervinyard]

Yes, Duke could have made some of those wide-open threes, but any time your offense starts to rely on the three, you introduce a huge element of chance. If things don't go your way, you can suffer, and Duke fans know this well.

But the thing is, Duke would never have had to take so many threes in the first place, had Butler not effectively controlled the pace. In the first half, Butler allowed very few easy transition buckets, imposing their style on the game; that forced Duke into a half-court offense where we launched a lot of threes. So while yes, we could have made a few more of our open threes, that would not have fixed the underlying problem, which was that we let Butler dictate the pace of the game instead of us.

It wasn't just the pace. I think they played a sinking man-to-man and a triangle-and-two, and the former encourages long shots while the latter is a junk defense that's hard to figure out at first. The sinking man-to-man stops drives to the basket and makes passes to the interior really difficult. When a team isn't hitting from three, which we weren't, it's a really difficult defense to play against, but when a team starts hitting from three consistently, that defense becomes less effective. I'm just happy we played against a really tough team using the kind of defenses that could possibly trip us up later, but now we have experience with them, and we'll be better prepared down the line.

[superdave]

I must have had some lingering stress from April 6, because this game had me wound tighter than any other point in the past month out of the gate. With Duke falling behind at a couple of points, my stress level grew.

Butler's D is not great, it's not overwhelming but it is really frustrating. They do so many little, subtle things and play with such exceptional effort. I have to say I admire that squad and their coach for their intensity and obvious preparation.

I am glad to see Irving get to go against so many great guards early in the year - Pullen, Lucas, Norad/Mack, etc. That will serve him well. It's also good for the guys to experience foul trouble, a 2nd half deficit and a poor shooting night. We made enough plays to put pressure on Butler and they eventually cracked.

Also, Duke picked up full court in this one for a few minutes. Good to see that option exercised.

Duke has a light schedule the next few weeks - time to get rested for the stresses of the ACC and implement a few new wrinkles!

[Jderf]

It wasn't just the pace. I think they played a sinking man-to-man and a triangle-and-two, and the former encourages long shots while the latter is a junk defense that's hard to figure out at first. The sinking man-to-man stops drives to the basket and makes passes to the interior really difficult. When a team isn't hitting from three, which we weren't, it's a really difficult defense to play against, but when a team starts hitting from three consistently, that defense becomes less effective. I'm just happy we played against a really tough team using the kind of defenses that could possibly trip us up later, but now we have experience with them, and we'll be better prepared down the line.

You're definitely right, and those are great points. I was just pointing out that if we had been able to get out in transition the way this team is supposed to, a lot of the time Butler would not have even been able to set up their defense in the first place. Then we could have traded some of those three-point bombs for easy lay-ups in transition. As it played out, Butler didn't let us do that, which made us take all those threes because of the reasons you mention. But normally Plan B will still be fine, seeing as we've got four (4!) players shooting threes at over 45% on the season.

(Here's a surprise: Niether Nolan nor Kyle are included in those four shooters.)

[Billy Dat]

Having attended the game, one word about the huge Duke crowd...weak! I was screaming in the upper sections and felt like you could have heard me down by the benches. I know it's not an undergraduate crowd, but it's not a tea party. Make some noise! It's no wonder the team waa kind of flat in the first half, the fans were giving the team nothing.

[Duvall]

Having attended the game, one word about the huge Duke crowd...weak! I was screaming in the upper sections and felt like you could have heard me down by the benches. I know it's not an undergraduate crowd, but it's not a tea party. Make some noise! It's no wonder the team waa kind of flat in the first half, the fans were giving the team nothing.

Enh, this is true of every neutral site Duke crowd, including ACC Tournament crowds. Just how it is.

[Devilsfan]

The team seemed tired from Weds,

[NovaScotian]

not sure who has seen this, but at the end of these top plays, nolan and josh do a pretty good mockery of what happened with derek anderson last week:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yaq-nJrRtG0

[juise]

not sure who has seen this, but at the end of these top plays, nolan and josh do a pretty good mockery of what happened with derek anderson last week:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yaq-nJrRtG0

Nice! If only he would have strung together a couple "That's fine" lines to go with it. I love the addition of interviews to the top 5 highlights.

[tylervinyard]

You're definitely right, and those are great points. I was just pointing out that if we had been able to get out in transition the way this team is supposed to, a lot of the time Butler would not have even been able to set up their defense in the first place. Then we could have traded some of those three-point bombs for easy lay-ups in transition. As it played out, Butler didn't let us do that, which made us take all those threes because of the reasons you mention. But normally Plan B will still be fine, seeing as we've got four (4!) players shooting threes at over 45% on the season.

(Here's a surprise: Niether Nolan nor Kyle are included in those four shooters.)

Oh yeah, I was just complementing your post. I totally agree.

[uh_no]

Having attended the game, one word about the huge Duke crowd...weak! I was screaming in the upper sections and felt like you could have heard me down by the benches. I know it's not an undergraduate crowd, but it's not a tea party. Make some noise! It's no wonder the team waa kind of flat in the first half, the fans were giving the team nothing.

I think we need to lay this one on the students for not getting out there to support their team.:p

[Lord Ash]

One observation from going to the game... Matt Howard is INSANELY ripped. He is about as ripped a player of his type as I've seen in a while. We were all rather impressed at his build.

[superdave]

One observation from going to the game... Matt Howard is INSANELY ripped. He is about as ripped a player of his type as I've seen in a while. We were all rather impressed at his build.

He looks like he has about 0.05% body fat. And the moustache is gone too. I see him as Birdman 2.0 in the NBA.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He looks like he has about 0.05% body fat. And the moustache is gone too. I see him as Birdman 2.0 in the NBA.

Hopefully without the neck and earlobe tattoos.

[Billy Dat]

The Birdman is really an incredible athlete, I don't know that Howard has that kind of speed and leaping ability.

I think maybe the Landlord is a better goal for Howard - physical, skilled around the basket, good rebounder, etc.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

The Birdman is really an incredible athlete, I don't know that Howard has that kind of speed and leaping ability.

I think maybe the Landlord is a better goal for Howard - physical, skilled around the basket, good rebounder, etc.

Howard's hand-eye coordination or hands (however you want to describe it) seem far superior to the Landlord's. Landlord always seems awkward in his movement. What a great defender.

[Greg_Newton]

The Birdman is really an incredible athlete, I don't know that Howard has that kind of speed and leaping ability.

I think maybe the Landlord is a better goal for Howard - physical, skilled around the basket, good rebounder, etc.

Yeah... Chris Anderson is a long 6'10 with a 40" vertical, Matt Howard is 6'8 with about a 12" vertical. He's so skilled on offense that he's almost a throwback to some more skilled, less athletic post players that were in their prime before I was born.

I think his best case scenario is something like Paul Millsap - multi-skilled, tough undersized PF that just gets it done. However, I think he'd have some serious trouble guarding NBA PFs right now.

[MChambers]

Yeah... Chris Anderson is a long 6'10 with a 40" vertical, Matt Howard is 6'8 with about a 12" vertical. He's so skilled on offense that he's almost a throwback to some more skilled, less athletic post players that were in their prime before I was born.

I think his best case scenario is something like Paul Millsap - multi-skilled, tough undersized PF that just gets it done. However, I think he'd have some serious trouble guarding NBA PFs right now.

John Pinone, Villanova:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pinone

[Billy Dat]

Yeah... Chris Anderson is a long 6'10 with a 40" vertical, Matt Howard is 6'8 with about a 12" vertical. He's so skilled on offense that he's almost a throwback to some more skilled, less athletic post players that were in their prime before I was born.

I think his best case scenario is something like Paul Millsap - multi-skilled, tough undersized PF that just gets it done. However, I think he'd have some serious trouble guarding NBA PFs right now.

I think we're getting closer..,,I think the Millsap ceiling is too high for Howard, after all, he is a starter and major contributor for one of the top 10 teams in the NBA, and also a reason why the Jazz felt comfortable letting CBooz walk.

How about the following list, which I am basing on being an undersized power forward with a limited NBA offensive game who will have to survive via hustle, rebounding and smarts...which is why I though Shelden was a good comparison:
-Eduardo Najera
-Craig Smith
-Jawad Williams
-Jon Brockman
-Dante Cunnigham
-Our beloved Psycho T

[CDu]

I think we're getting closer..,,I think the Millsap ceiling is too high for Howard, after all, he is a starter and major contributor for one of the top 10 teams in the NBA, and also a reason why the Jazz felt comfortable letting CBooz walk.

How about the following list, which I am basing on being an undersized power forward with a limited NBA offensive game who will have to survive via hustle, rebounding and smarts...which is why I though Shelden was a good comparison:
-Eduardo Najera
-Craig Smith
-Jawad Williams
-Jon Brockman
-Dante Cunnigham
-Our beloved Psycho T

Yeah, it's hard to find a reasonable comp for Howard in the NBA. He's a more skilled offensive player than Najera was in college, but not as good defensively. He's not as powerful or as athletic or as skilled as Craig Smith (who was a force in college). He's not as quick or as good a perimeter shooter as Williams, but he's a better post scorer. He's not as strong or as good a rebounder as Brockman. And he's not as versatile or as athletic as Cunningham. And he's not near Hansbrough in any of the above basketball categories.

Maybe someone like a Brian Cardinal?

[Billy Dat]

Yeah, it's hard to find a reasonable comp for Howard in the NBA. He's a more skilled offensive player than Najera was in college, but not as good defensively. He's not as powerful or as athletic or as skilled as Craig Smith (who was a force in college). He's not as quick or as good a perimeter shooter as Williams, but he's a better post scorer. He's not as strong or as good a rebounder as Brockman. And he's not as versatile or as athletic as Cunningham. And he's not near Hansbrough in any of the above basketball categories.

Maybe someone like a Brian Cardinal?

That's too funny, I had Cardinal on my list but deleted him before posting because I didn't think Howard had the game to stick in the NBA for 10 years.

[CDu]

That's too funny, I had Cardinal on my list but deleted him before posting because I didn't think Howard had the game to stick in the NBA for 10 years.

Oh I completely agree. I don't see Howard making it to the NBA. I was just saying that, if he's going to make it, Cardinal the type of comp I could envision. For what it's worth, I also didn't think Cardinal would stick in the NBA.

[jimsumner]

Oh I completely agree. I don't see Howard making it to the NBA. I was just saying that, if he's going to make it, Cardinal the type of comp I could envision. For what it's worth, I also didn't think Cardinal would stick in the NBA.

John Pinone?

[MChambers]

John Pinone?

See my post #105 in this thread. I'd like to think this means great minds think alike.

[noyac]

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