All-time smart guy team

[UrinalCake]

So I've been up all night with a newborn and had a random topic for discussion come to me. Who would be your candidates for an all-time Smart Guy team of current or former Duke players? Here's my starting lineup (which is weighted pretty heavily towards recent players)


PG Grant Hill - don't need to say too much about him

SG Trajan Langdon - was a double major in Math and History. I think I heard a rumor that he had gotten something like a 1400 on his SAT's

SF Todd Singleton - a little-used walk on in the late 90's, he was an Electrical Engineering major. I often saw him working in the Teer clusters and even napping on the couches, as was common for us engineering nerds.

PF Reggie Love - not sure how his academics were, but he has become the #2 guy to the most powerful man in the world, so I'm assuming he's got some street smarts.

C Shane Battier - the most cerebral player Duke has ever had. Studies the game better than anyone, especially on defense. Received a number of academic awards in both high school and college.

Any other nominees?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Jim Spanarkel. His basketball smarts defined the roll.

Matt Christensen. He was an EE major and now works in the field.

Nick Horvath. Math/Physics and English major. Wrote great poetry as a sideline.

[4decadedukie]

JON SCHEYER. While I cannot specifically comment on his Duke academic achievements, Jon's in-depth understanding of the game and its many facets -- and his ability to adapt and to master key, new roles -- was very rare, indicating (among other traits) excellent intelligence.

[dball]

Went to Duke Med. Resident now, I believe, but may be finished.

3 time All Academic ACC

[dball]

Greg Paulus was all academic ACC a couple of times I believe.
Jay Bilas went to Duke Law.

[Indoor66]

Jack Marin went to law school after his pro career; Steve Vacindak went to Duke Law and left to play pro basketball; Jay Buckly has a PHD in the med field

[4decadedukie]

Gary Melchionni graduated from Duke and Duke Law; I cannot comment regarding his specific grades (etc.), although, obviously, these are very competitive and demanding courses of study. However, I worked closely with him for several years on Duke's Alumni Board, and he is a very bright and effective leader.

[jimsumner]

Jack Marin went to law school after his pro career; Steve Vacindak went to Duke Law and left to play pro basketball; Jay Buckly has a PHD in the med field

This lists starts with Dr. Jay Buckley, who I profiled for Blue Devil Tip-Off a few years ago.

A brief resume.

" Dr. Buckley is currently President of JLB Associates, consulting on Technical and Business Strategies in the Aerospace and Geospatial Information sectors, including technologies for advanced imaging, processing, and communications systems. Dr. Buckley was a previous Senior Vice President for Satellite Programs and Business Development at Orbital Sciences Corporation, General Manager at Lockheed Martin (GE/Valley Forge) and CEO of Earth Observation Satellite Company (EOSAT), in Lanham, MD.

Dr Buckley holds a PhD from Johns Hopkins University in Physics/Atmospheric Sciences, a B.S. in Physics from Duke University and Academic All American, Basketball.

[JayZee]

Big George Burgin - Double major in engineering and member of Dickie V's all-airport team.

Quin Snyder - I remember Quin being on a bunch of academic all american teams.

Tony Lang - I also seem to remember Tony being valedictorian of his HS.

Doesn't Duke BB have a top scholar award every year? Any 4 time winners of that?

[alteran]

I'd put Chris Carrawell on the list.

He was always the first guy reporters would go to for a quote after a game because he always had something funny/insightful to say and had an allergy to using cliches.

[weezie]

Wasn't Zoubs and academic achiever?

[jimsumner]

Wasn't Zoubs and academic achiever?

I believe Quinn Snyder as a Duke law degree and a Fuqua graduate degree.

Not too shabby.

Jack Marin has a Duke law degree.

As does Jay Bilas.

Matt Christensen is very bright.

Mark Alarie has an MBA from Wharton.

C.B. Claibrone has a doctorate.

Folks, Duke has had lots and lots of really bright people who also happened to play basketball. We likely can't begin to cover them all. People like Fred Shabel.

[badgerbd]

Rick Wagoner played freshman ball at Duke

[Bluedog]

Wasn't Zoubs and academic achiever?

Yes, Zoubs is definitely on the list. Academic All-ACC three times. Chose Duke over offers from Princeton and Stanford. Scored 1360+ on SAT Math + Verbal. Ryan Kelly was a national merit semifinalist. For recent scholarship players, definitely Zoubek, Kelly, Paulus, Langdon, Battier, Horvath, Christensen come to mind...If you include walk-ons, it's not really a reasonable comparison. On this team, Casey Peters scored a perfect 800 on the Math SAT and was a national merit semifinalist.

[jimsumner]

The late Dick DeVenzio was very, very bright.

Bob Fleischer was an excellent student. He's a urologist in upstate New York.

Jim Suddath is a minister.

Crawford Palmer deserves to make the short list, as does Jay Bryan.

[Wander]

One more, even though he was only here for a year: Elliot Williams.

[Johnboy]

This lists starts with Dr. Jay Buckley, who I profiled for Blue Devil Tip-Off a few years ago.

A brief resume.

" Dr. Buckley is currently President of JLB Associates, consulting on Technical and Business Strategies in the Aerospace and Geospatial Information sectors, including technologies for advanced imaging, processing, and communications systems. Dr. Buckley was a previous Senior Vice President for Satellite Programs and Business Development at Orbital Sciences Corporation, General Manager at Lockheed Martin (GE/Valley Forge) and CEO of Earth Observation Satellite Company (EOSAT), in Lanham, MD.

Dr Buckley holds a PhD from Johns Hopkins University in Physics/Atmospheric Sciences, a B.S. in Physics from Duke University and Academic All American, Basketball.

So he's literally a rocket scientist.

[jimsumner]

So he's literally a rocket scientist.

Yes, a 6-10 rocket scientist. A very, very select group. :)

[Tappan Zee Devil]

Yes, a 6-10 rocket scientist. A very, very select group. :)

a 6-10 rocket scientist who averaged 11 points per game and 8.4 rebounds per game (and nearly a double double over his junior and senior years).

[77devil]

The late Dick DeVenzio was very, very bright.

Bob Fleischer was an excellent student. He's a urologist in upstate New York.

Jim Suddath is a minister.

Crawford Palmer deserves to make the short list, as does Jay Bryan.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the G-Man who was a 3 time Academic All American, and it was rumored at the time to have carried a 4.0 average over several semesters, although it could be a myth.

[Double DD]

Basketball Academic All-Americans at Duke
Jay Buckley (1963, 1964)
Dick DeVenzio (1971)
Gary Melchionni (1972)
Bob Fleischer (1974, 1975)
Mike Gminski (1978, 1979, 1980)
Jim Spanarkel (1978, 1979)
Quin Snyder (1989)
Shane Battier (2000, 2001)
Mike Dunleavy (2002)
Greg Paulus (2008, 2009)

[wilson]

Cool topic. I like your list, especially the Reggie Love pick. He's not one I'd have immediately thought of, but you make a very good case.

I'd add Jon Scheyer, for his instincts for the game and the way in which he so perfectly controlled a system that required great precision for last year's team to enjoy such ultimate success.
I would also nominate Kyle Singler. He too has demonstrated great knowledge for the game, by playing all over the court during his Duke career, and contributing such an array of talents to such a stylistic hodgepodge of teams. I also have enjoyed the fruits of his considerable artistic talents and savvy. I could see him being very successful with a line of gear and "stuff" even during his NBA career.

[ricks68]

So I've been up all night with a newborn and had a random topic for discussion come to me. Who would be your candidates for an all-time Smart Guy team of current or former Duke players? Here's my starting lineup (which is weighted pretty heavily towards recent players)

My nominee would be Bob Verga. Drove his 'vette at Duke and became a tennis coach.:cool:

Now, that's SMART! All the people that have been listed, however, appear to me to be extremely intelligent.;)

ricks

[taiw93]

Miles Plumlee was the salutatorian of his high school class, according to his bio on goduke.com.

[-jk]

How 'bout Mike Tissaw? Philosophy major at Duke, Georgetown psychology PhD.

-jk

[Bluedog]

Miles Plumlee was the salutatorian of his high school class, according to his bio on goduke.com.

He also enrolled in Pratt at the beginning. While he has since switched out, even attempting that while a varsity basketball player at Duke suggests major smarts. I graduated from Pratt and cannot even fathom taking those classes on top of the time commitment that these guys put in as well as the missed class time. Frankly I find it incredible that these guys get any work done at all. It's really incredible and I have the utmost respect for their amazing time management skills.

[mapei]

I don't go back as far as many of you, so I'm limiting my picks to the last 20 years. I'm also limiting them to starters or almost-starters, since I think this is most interesting when the student-athlete excelled at both:

Shane
Grant
Jon
Lang (based on reputation; I didn't really witness it from him)
Trajan

[DoubleDukie]

Another vote for Burgin. Double major in Mechanical Engineering and Computer Science, left the team as a senior to focus on his studies. K let him keep his athletic scholarship, if I recall correctly.

[MCFinARL]

Don't know if he is in the same league as the rocket scientist, but I'd like to give a shout out to Andre Dawkins, who had an honor-roll high school career taking AP and honors classes and, according to his bio, enrolled in programs with the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth--which have pretty demanding admissions standards.

[hood7]

I think Jason Williams deserves some credit for coming into Duke with a number of AP credits and the smarts/discipline to graduate in just 3 years. I think he was also his high school chess club's team captain...? Boozer also did the 3-year thing...no easy feat for guys with such major hoop-time commitment!

Also, Johnny Dawkins deserves to be on this list for making the genius move of committing to Duke to play for an then-unproven coach and launching what has been a pretty decent 30-year run for us. Maybe it wasn't book-smarts, but he saw something in K and was smart enough to go with it.

[wsb3]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the G-Man who was a 3 time Academic All American, and it was rumored at the time to have carried a 4.0 average over several semesters, although it could be a myth.

G-Man was one that came to mind for me also. Did he not finish HS early and arrive at Duke at age 17?

[jimsumner]

Another vote for Burgin. Double major in Mechanical Engineering and Computer Science, left the team as a senior to focus on his studies. K let him keep his athletic scholarship, if I recall correctly.

Burgin was in the same class as Danny Ferry, Quin Snyder and John Smith. Burgin redshirted as a freshman, in part because of his difficult double major, in part because he was painfully thin and it was hoped that a year of force-feeding and weight-lifting would give him the heft he would need to play at the ACC level.

Despite being on the milk-shake-every time-you-turn-around diet, he never put on enough weight to make a difference. He could have come back as a fifth-year senior in 1990 but elected to graduate and get on with his life.

Burgin is the author of one of the best one-liners in Duke basketball history. When asked by an awed woman if he was a basketball player, the 7-0 Burgin responded, "No, but I am a rocket scientist."

[DukeDevilDeb]

I'd put Chris Carrawell on the list.

He was always the first guy reporters would go to for a quote after a game because he always had something funny/insightful to say and had an allergy to using cliches.

Although Chris is quick with a quip, he cannot begin to even walk in the shadows of the others on this list. Had him in class three times, so I know. Street smart? You bet. Academically smart? Less certain. Outstanding academic performance? No way.

I love Chris as a player and person, but his name shouldn't be here.

[DukeDevilDeb]

I think Jason Williams deserves some credit for coming into Duke with a number of AP credits and the smarts/discipline to graduate in just 3 years. I think he was also his high school chess club's team captain...? Boozer also did the 3-year thing...no easy feat for guys with such major hoop-time commitment!

Also, Johnny Dawkins deserves to be on this list for making the genius move of committing to Duke to play for an then-unproven coach and launching what has been a pretty decent 30-year run for us. Maybe it wasn't book-smarts, but he saw something in K and was smart enough to go with it.

Please check your facts before you post something like this. Jason was an excellent student and did graduate in three years and several summers. I had him in class, and I was amazed at and impressed with his ability to carry an extremely difficult class load and play All American basketball at the same time.

But Boozer? No way. Boozer left after 3 years without being close to graduating and, from inside sources, has no intent whatsoever to come back and complete his degree.

Just because JWill and Boozer left at the same time doesn't mean both graduated. Boozer did not.

We should also mention Mike Dunleavy as he left after three years with JWill and Boozer. Like Boozer, he had not completed requirements for his degree (you may remember that he had planned to be a 'four-year guy' and really only went because he was told he would be a lottery pick). However, unlike Boozer, Mike came back to Duke as soon as it was feasible and finished his degree. I worked with him in pursuit of that goal, and I was very impressed with his maturity and drive.

By the way, I saw Mike a couple of years later at his brother's and my nephew's high school graduation ceremony. He asked why so many people at Duke had gotten really angry at him for leaving when JWill's and Boozer's departures were accepted. I responded as follows: JWill had said he was leaving in 3 years from the beginning and, in doing so, he graduated. We were still smarting from the apparent defection of Brand, Avery and Maggette after the loss in the 1999 title game as they were the first who really left with no clear intention to graduate; and none of them has.

Mike had said from the beginning that he was a 4-year guy, and we believed him. I fully think he believed himself as well. Some people thought he was giving up the opportunity to be National Player of the Year his senior year and were incensed that a Duke player would choose the NBA and money over that honor.

Mike said, "How could I not go? I was the third pick in the draft. Had I not gone, many people would have told me I was passing up the dream of a lifetime. And I did come back and graduate."

So if you are still upset with Mike leaving, you shouldn't be. He is a much a Duke grad as Williams or Duhon or JJ or Shelden... and has performed admirably in the NBA.

Man, a real trip down memory lane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[JayZee]

Burgin was in the same class as Danny Ferry, Quin Snyder and John Smith. Burgin redshirted as a freshman, in part because of his difficult double major, in part because he was painfully thin and it was hoped that a year of force-feeding and weight-lifting would give him the heft he would need to play at the ACC level.

Despite being on the milk-shake-every time-you-turn-around diet, he never put on enough weight to make a difference. He could have come back as a fifth-year senior in 1990 but elected to graduate and get on with his life.

Burgin is the author of one of the best one-liners in Duke basketball history. When asked by an awed woman if he was a basketball player, the 7-0 Burgin responded, "No, but I am a rocket scientist."

With all due respect, I have one small, but important clarification. George did come back to Duke his 5th year. That year K gave George the option to practice and travel with the team or to continue his studies and find a job, without playing. In either option, George's scholarship would be honored. George selected door number two.

In my mind this was vintage K. Honest, straightforward, open, upstanding, and empathic. Nothing worth more than a mention, really, but another example of K's commitment to his values.

[DevilHorns]

Please check your facts before you post something like this. Jason was an excellent student and did graduate in three years and several summers. I had him in class, and I was amazed at and impressed with his ability to carry an extremely difficult class load and play All American basketball at the same time.

But Boozer? No way. Boozer left after 3 years without being close to graduating and, from inside sources, has no intent whatsoever to come back and complete his degree.

Just because JWill and Boozer left at the same time doesn't mean both graduated. Boozer did not.

We should also mention Mike Dunleavy as he left after three years with JWill and Boozer. Like Boozer, he had not completed requirements for his degree (you may remember that he had planned to be a 'four-year guy' and really only went because he was told he would be a lottery pick). However, unlike Boozer, Mike came back to Duke as soon as it was feasible and finished his degree. I worked with him in pursuit of that goal, and I was very impressed with his maturity and drive.

By the way, I saw Mike a couple of years later at his brother's and my nephew's high school graduation ceremony. He asked why so many people at Duke had gotten really angry at him for leaving when JWill's and Boozer's departures were accepted. I responded as follows: JWill had said he was leaving in 3 years from the beginning and, in doing so, he graduated. We were still smarting from the apparent defection of Brand, Avery and Maggette after the loss in the 1999 title game as they were the first who really left with no clear intention to graduate; and none of them has.

Mike had said from the beginning that he was a 4-year guy, and we believed him. I fully think he believed himself as well. Some people thought he was giving up the opportunity to be National Player of the Year his senior year and were incensed that a Duke player would choose the NBA and money over that honor.

Mike said, "How could I not go? I was the third pick in the draft. Had I not gone, many people would have told me I was passing up the dream of a lifetime. And I did come back and graduate."

So if you are still upset with Mike leaving, you shouldn't be. He is a much a Duke grad as Williams or Duhon or JJ or Shelden... and has performed admirably in the NBA.

Man, a real trip down memory lane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

Thanks for the story!

It upsets me that Mike felt this way from what he perceived as the general Duke fandom reaction to his early departure to the league. I for one think he should have entered the draft. His 3 point spree in the 2001 title game gave us the separation we needed to win. His stock could not have been higher. It would be silly for him not to leave. And for those touting academics, as our resident DevilDeb has told us, he finished his degree very shortly after. He gave Duke fans so much... obviously we would have loved for him to stay, but as he chose to go, I wish elements of the fanbase would not have been so vocal as to upset Mike.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Rick Wagoner played freshman ball at Duke

He also managed General Motors into bankruptcy.

[1991 duke law]

These student athletes are the reason why I take such pride in having graduated from Duke. Duke basketball is not only about having great basketball players.

I would be curious whether our friends down the road can list such an academically successful group of students that played basketball.

[johnb]

I occasionally regret posts, primarily when I've dissed a player. It usually happens in the context of comparisons, but that approach feels like an error.

I write this here since how we can really know the academic performance of our players? The academic all American and all ACC teams seem reasonable as do post grad degrees and whether or not they graduated. This just doesn't like the place to share vague rumors that impugn our players--and if someone was involved in teaching or tutoring, I really don't want it posted.

Having said that, I'd also add that some of the players who we might see as not especially academic came from school/social environments that should have left them woefully unprepared for any college, much less a hard one, and yet they have by and large graduated.

[UrinalCake]

Many thanks to all who responded, especially some of the more, uh, seasoned members of the board for filling me in on some guys who were a little before my time. As fans and alumni of Duke, we take great pride in knowing that our beloved program produces such great kids who are successful on the court but also off of it in so many ways.

I don't think anyone has mentioned Jay Bilas - Duke Law grad, practicing lawyer, and broadcaster extraordinaire. A lot of Duke fans take issue with his often critical analyses of Duke, but you can't deny that he's a smart and successful guy.

On the ladies side, Allison Bales was a premed student who may someday return to med school, and Georgia Schweitzer was quickly hired as an assistant coach after graduating, then returned to Duke med school where she interned at the Brain Tumor Center. So Duke's basketball alumni may include both a rocket scientist and a brain surgeon! I'm sure there are many more examples I've missed. Our women's program is producing very impressive members of society as well!

[Starter]

Interesting that Boozer apparently didn't graduate, but it's an honest mistake by the poster who said he did. I thought the same thing, maybe because I remember Chris Collins saying after 2001 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/2001/07/11/boozer_ap/) that Boozer was going to take the J-Will three-year path to the NBA. I'd be interested to know how he went from supposedly on track to graduate in three years to nowhere close to a degree, but I don't see any evidence (after an admittedly non-comprehensive few minutes of Googling) that Boozer actually did graduate. I knew Carlos well and liked him very much personally, and if this is true, I would have to believe he'd want to complete his degree when the time is right for him. Either way, I remain a huge fan.

On a side note, I had a radio show the night in 2001 that Jason Williams told reporters he was coming back to the NBA -- after a win over I think NC State in early February -- and Jay agreed to call in after the game. (Horribly, I woke him up from a nap when I called him later to get him on the air, but he said he'd come on with us anyway.) I asked him why he decided to come back, since he'd basically be a lock to be a Top 5 pick if he went pro. He went into detail about the three-year plan to graduate with liberal amounts of summer classes, the first I'd heard of anything like this, and I remember thinking at the time that Krzyzewski was an absolute genius to come up with a plan like that to offer to good students/awesome players who could declare for the draft early while still completing or nearing a degree. (Especially since it was all I myself could do to finish in four years) I'd imagine other schools have adopted their own plans like this, but it seemed pretty progressive at the time, and in certain ways still does.

[cameroncrazy3104]

didnt jason williams graduate in 3 years, thats pretty impressive

[UrinalCake]

Jay Williams is a great story for future players who are struggling with the decision of whether to leave early. A lot of people think he made a mistake by staying another year in school, since his he basically lost a year of NBA salary after his accident. But I heard him address this issue once and he has the exact opposite opinion - he's so thankful that he did stay, because the degree and the extra year of education/experience opened up other doors for him in broadcasting and such. A good lesson on the value of education.

As for Dunleavy, I think there are a couple reasons why fans were against him leaving. First, his parents are wealthy and so people think he has no financial incentive to leave. IMO this is dumb. Just because your parents have money doesn't mean you don't have the right to seek out your own fortune. And Brand and Williams weren't exactly poor either. The other reason is that had he come back he would have been "the man" and a possible #1 pick the following year. I don't think fans expected him to go as high as he did.

[Starter]

Jay Williams is a great story for future players who are struggling with the decision of whether to leave early. A lot of people think he made a mistake by staying another year in school, since his he basically lost a year of NBA salary after his accident. But I heard him address this issue once and he has the exact opposite opinion - he's so thankful that he did stay, because the degree and the extra year of education/experience opened up other doors for him in broadcasting and such. A good lesson on the value of education.

As for Dunleavy, I think there are a couple reasons why fans were against him leaving. First, his parents are wealthy and so people think he has no financial incentive to leave. IMO this is dumb. Just because your parents have money doesn't mean you don't have the right to seek out your own fortune. And Brand and Williams weren't exactly poor either. The other reason is that had he come back he would have been "the man" and a possible #1 pick the following year. I don't think fans expected him to go as high as he did.

I agree with most of this, except from what I recall, Brand's family wasn't exactly the Rockefellers. Also, I loved Dunleavy, but regardless of what his senior year turned out to be, he might have had a tough time beating out a guy named LeBron James for the No. 1 spot. In fact, depending on the situation, if the iron's hot you really have to strike. The longer you stay, sometimes your game gets exposed a bit -- Josh McRoberts and Ed Cota are good examples of this -- or your stock drops due to sheer familiarity, which people view as the opposite of the mythic "potential." If Dunleavy was a top 5 pick -- and he obviously was -- he had to leave.

[sagegrouse]

I agree with most of this, except from what I recall, Brand's family wasn't exactly the Rockefellers. Also, I loved Dunleavy, but regardless of what his senior year turned out to be, he might have had a tough time beating out a guy named LeBron James for the No. 1 spot. In fact, depending on the situation, if the iron's hot you really have to strike. The longer you stay, sometimes your game gets exposed a bit -- Josh McRoberts and Ed Cota are good examples of this -- or your stock drops due to sheer familiarity, which people view as the opposite of the mythic "potential." If Dunleavy was a top 5 pick -- and he obviously was -- he had to leave.

That's exactly right WRT Dunleavy. Although he had said from the beginning he was a "four-year player," I always thought his statement was due to his need to develop physical maturity before going to the NBA. But when he was slated for the third pick in the draft, he really had no other intelligent choice but to go the NBA. Some fans resent his going back on his word, when, in reality, the circumstances became suddenly very different. Plus, he has graduated from Duke.

sagegrouse

[4decadedukie]

That's exactly right WRT Dunleavy. Although he had said from the beginning he was a "four-year player," I always thought his statement was due to his need to develop physical maturity before going to the NBA. But when he was slated for the third pick in the draft, he really had no other intelligent choice but to go the NBA. Some fans resent his going back on his word, when, in reality, the circumstances became suddenly very different. Plus, he has graduated from Duke.

I wholeheartedly agree, although my wife unfailingly berates me for this whenever the "four year Dunleavy" subject is addressed.

[Devilsfan]

Bilas, Scheyer, JWill, Zoubs and maybe Kyrie who impressed me in one of his very recent post game interviews.