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View Full Version : Blaming the players... again



Ping Lin
12-03-2010, 09:40 AM
Wow, it really seems to be spreading doesn't it?

First, we have (par for the course really) Roy rip into a couple of his players after a lackluster start to the season.

Donovan does the same down in Florida.

And now, after a complete shellacking at Wisconsin (they lost by 39 but it really wasn't that close), Lowe blames his players for not listening to him.

...Sorry, but did I miss the word "coach" in the job description? Isn't it the job of the, you know, coach to make sure his players are prepared and motivated?

Seriously, when was the last time Coach K *ever* called out a player in a press conference? If they're not prepared or unresponsive, it's your job to do something about it.

To be a teensy bit fair to Roy, he often appends his words with some shouldering of the blame for losses. But it's things like these that make me doubt Williams or Donovan are ever going to be at K's level. (Aside from that wins thing.)

PADukeMom
12-03-2010, 09:50 AM
It will never happen at DUKE as long as K is coach. A great leader keeps this matter private. Other coaches make public comments as to take the blame of a lackluster performance off of him. They make this this will motivate the struggling player but I think it humilates the player.

Slackerb
12-03-2010, 09:52 AM
Wow, it really seems to be spreading doesn't it?

First, we have (par for the course really) Roy rip into a couple of his players after a lackluster start to the season.

Donovan does the same down in Florida.

And now, after a complete shellacking at Wisconsin (they lost by 39 but it really wasn't that close), Lowe blames his players for not listening to him.

...Sorry, but did I miss the word "coach" in the job description? Isn't it the job of the, you know, coach to make sure his players are prepared and motivated?

Seriously, when was the last time Coach K *ever* called out a player in a press conference? If they're not prepared or unresponsive, it's your job to do something about it.

Also, when is the last time K lost by 39? How do you know how he would react then....?
To be a teensy bit fair to Roy, he often appends his words with some shouldering of the blame for losses. But it's things like these that make me doubt Williams or Donovan are ever going to be at K's level. (Aside from that wins thing.)

Here's what Lowe said:


"Number one was our lack of toughness, our lack of attention to detail," Lowe told the Wolfpack Sports Network after the loss to Wisconsin. "I'm disappointed in adjustments...things we talked about in the huddle and then we went right out on the floor and did exactly what we said don't do."

I think in Lowe's case though it was warranted to call out his players and he handled it the right way. If you watched that game, it was clear that he was trying to make adjustments and the kids simply weren't listening to him. CJ Leslie was pulled for 12 minutes to try to make that very point. Don't listen to what we're doing and play streetball and you'll get benched.

I fail to see how that's not exactly what a coach is supposed to do?

And there's a big difference between what Lowe has said vs. Roy and Donovan. Lowe has yet to name individual players, etc.

I'm not a huge Lowe fan, but throwing him in there right now just seems inaccurate.

Also, when was the last time K lost by 39? It's easy not to call out the players when you are the #1 team in the nation. How do we know how he would react if under immense pressure and having the seasons Roy has had or a game like State's vs. Wisconsin?

gotoguy
12-03-2010, 10:46 AM
Here's what Lowe said:



I think in Lowe's case though it was warranted to call out his players and he handled it the right way. If you watched that game, it was clear that he was trying to make adjustments and the kids simply weren't listening to him. CJ Leslie was pulled for 12 minutes to try to make that very point. Don't listen to what we're doing and play streetball and you'll get benched.

I fail to see how that's not exactly what a coach is supposed to do?

And there's a big difference between what Lowe has said vs. Roy and Donovan. Lowe has yet to name individual players, etc.

I'm not a huge Lowe fan, but throwing him in there right now just seems inaccurate.

Also, when was the last time K lost by 39? It's easy not to call out the players when you are the #1 team in the nation. How do we know how he would react if under immense pressure and having the seasons Roy has had or a game like State's vs. Wisconsin?

In the 83 ACC tourney Duke was bounced by a large margin(over 30) by the Sampson led Cavaliers. Later that night I believe it was at a Denny's the coaches were conversing and one said here's to forgetting todays game and coach K replied "here's to never forgetting." Some alums were calling for his job. K and Duke responded by not losing to UVA for the next 10 years.

SMO
12-03-2010, 10:48 AM
Here's what Lowe said:



I think in Lowe's case though it was warranted to call out his players and he handled it the right way. If you watched that game, it was clear that he was trying to make adjustments and the kids simply weren't listening to him. CJ Leslie was pulled for 12 minutes to try to make that very point. Don't listen to what we're doing and play streetball and you'll get benched.

I fail to see how that's not exactly what a coach is supposed to do?

And there's a big difference between what Lowe has said vs. Roy and Donovan. Lowe has yet to name individual players, etc.

I'm not a huge Lowe fan, but throwing him in there right now just seems inaccurate.

Also, when was the last time K lost by 39? It's easy not to call out the players when you are the #1 team in the nation. How do we know how he would react if under immense pressure and having the seasons Roy has had or a game like State's vs. Wisconsin?

Lowe's use of "we" is illustrative. When I hear "I" and "me" is when I get the sense that the coach could be a better leader.

Starter
12-03-2010, 11:02 AM
Also, when was the last time K lost by 39? It's easy not to call out the players when you are the #1 team in the nation. How do we know how he would react if under immense pressure and having the seasons Roy has had or a game like State's vs. Wisconsin?

It's not quite 39, but when they were ranked third and lost by 27 to Clemson two years ago, Krzyzewski didn't quite throw his team under the bus (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3671480). He typically praises the other team for causing his team not to play well.

He showed the same dignity (http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032709aad.html) after losing by 24 to Villanova in the Tournament. They were ranked fifth at the time.

MCFinARL
12-03-2010, 11:14 AM
Lowe's use of "we" is illustrative. When I hear "I" and "me" is when I get the sense that the coach could be a better leader.

I agree. When a team with the talent of NC State plays as flat, and loses as badly, as they did at Wisconsin, it suggests the coach may be having a problem getting through to the players. So in that sense, maybe Lowe could have shouldered even more of the blame than he did. But the "we" says that he gets it that at least part of the responsibility is his--that as a team, both coach and players are saying they will do one thing but actually doing another.

davekay1971
12-03-2010, 11:26 AM
One big difference in Lowe's quote was the use of "we" and "our". I, and others, have gotten on Roy for his use of "I" and "They". "I tell them to do this but they do that" and "I can't do it for them, they have to do it", etc. Maybe it's just semantics, but I think the choice of wording is psychologically important for the team, and greatly impacts the message being sent to players, media, and fans.

Watching State's performance against Wisconsin, I think Lowe's remarks are appropriate (granted that I'm biased and have a personal liking for Lowe). The team looked like they gave up and lost their intensity when they got down. Some of that, of course, comes back to Lowe's performance as a coach preparing for the game and his ability to make in-game adjustments and motivate his team in a tough circumstance. I did not see his complete remarks, but it would be out of character for him to not accept some of the blame for the team's performance.

LSanders
12-03-2010, 11:53 AM
Also, when was the last time K lost by 39? It's easy not to call out the players when you are the #1 team in the nation. How do we know how he would react if under immense pressure and having the seasons Roy has had or a game like State's vs. Wisconsin?

Never happen. For Coach to do such a thing, he'd have to violate his own long-held beliefs. One part of the "fist" is collective responsibility. K will NEVER throw his team under the bus. That would be abdicating his responsibility in the effort.

muzikfrk75
12-03-2010, 11:58 AM
Exactly what did Donovan say?

dukeimac
12-03-2010, 04:32 PM
This has a lot to do with the type of players "coaches" recruit.

The #1 reason why it won't happen at Duke. The reason why guys (Kenny - Florida & Barnes - UNC) go some place other than Duke.

I know Coach was in hot pursuit of these guys at one time but I also know they selected another school. I truly believe it is because they know who Coach K is and what he will and will not put up with. Thus, they select other options.

I laugh every time someone comes here and complains about Duke losing a recruit. The truth is Duke doesn't lose a recruit, they let them go. Being around these guys long enough, one knows who they are and the crap they do. Thus, they become unappealing and they select someone else. The coaches gets to see them in person and up close, unlike most of the people who just drool over someone because they have a great highlite real on youtube.

Sorry, but I never worry about the recruits Duke loses, it usually means they are not good enough to suit up for Duke. Barnes vs Kyrie, just who is answering the call?

I believe this because of one reason and one reason only, "in Coach K I trust." Never ever doubt Coach and never ever question him. If you do, I want proof you have come even close to what he has accomplished. Otherwise, your just a darn fool, and no one can help you. And no, it is not open for discussion.

gam7
12-03-2010, 05:18 PM
This has a lot to do with the type of players "coaches" recruit.

The #1 reason why it won't happen at Duke. The reason why guys (Kenny - Florida & Barnes - UNC) go some place other than Duke.

I know Coach was in hot pursuit of these guys at one time but I also know they selected another school. I truly believe it is because they know who Coach K is and what he will and will not put up with. Thus, they select other options.

I laugh every time someone comes here and complains about Duke losing a recruit. The truth is Duke doesn't lose a recruit, they let them go. Being around these guys long enough, one knows who they are and the crap they do.

...

Sorry, but I never worry about the recruits Duke loses, it usually means they are not good enough to suit up for Duke. Barnes vs Kyrie, just who is answering the call?

I believe this because of one reason and one reason only, "in Coach K I trust." Never ever doubt Coach and never ever question him. If you do, I want proof you have come even close to what he has accomplished. Otherwise, your just a darn fool, and no one can help you. And no, it is not open for discussion.

I just don't understand why people think Duke fans are arrogant. :)

I think you're are preaching to the choir with respect to believing in K, but I think it's kind of ridiculous to say that no one should ever question him. The strategy behind Zoubek's intentional free throw miss in the championship game is an example. It was perfectly reasonable to debate whether K's strategy was the best move. Reasonable minds can differ.