Kyrie: Let's All Come Back Down to Earth

[quota]

Kyrie's game last night was truly one for the ages. I'm trying to think of a more impressive game by a freshman since I've been watching Duke. I can't come up with one. I'll be saving that game on my DVR for quite a while.

That being said, it's nice to bask in the jaw-dropping amazement at his prowess against MSU, but let's make sure we don't get too carried away.

The last thing I want to see is the Duke fan base start getting disappointed with Kyrie having games of "only" 12 or 15 points, etc etc. Let's keep in mind he is still a freshman, he is still learning this Duke offense and he's still adjusting to the speed of the college game. While all of that makes his performance last night all that much more impressive, fans need to resist the urge to think he's "arrived" and that performances like that are here to stay.

It's only going to get harder for Kyrie from here on out. You don't put up 31 points like he did against a team like Michigan State and not move to the top of every other team's scouting report. Teams are going to throw everything but the kitchen sink at this kid and we'll have to wait and see how he's able to adjust.

Anyway, I just hope the fan base comes back down to earth relatively quickly and doesn't start heaping crazy expectations on this kid.

[Wander]

Kyrie is definitely not still adjusting to the speed of the college game.

Here's the best thing I've ever heard about using seniority as an excuse: when you list "he's a freshman" as a player's weakness, what you're doing is unfairly doubly counting that player's actual weaknesses. Youth is - for most players - the cause of a player's areas of improvements, but not a fundamental weakness in and of itself. It's like listing "he's not strong enough" and "he didn't spend enough time in the weight room over the summer" as separate criticisms of a player's game. The refs aren't checking Irving's birth certificate as he burns by opposing guards.

Of course, Irving will have subpar games. So will the seniors, juniors, and sophomores on the team.

[cnote]

been a lot of talk about Irving's performance down in Texas tonight.

WOW.

For any freshman to do that is amazing... to do it against a team like Michigan State is jaw dropping.

I wouldn't yet put him on the list of best 3 frosh I have seen play... but it is so early in the season.. and tonight at least put him on the path

(remember, I saw Beasley and Durant play in Waco... Beasley who dropped 44)

Irving is obviously barking orders and getting people like Smith, Curry and Singler to follow him. For a frosh to do such a thing on a team that is returning many of the pieces that won a national title (still think we gave y'all one of the best fights of your season) says a whole hell of a lot. his instinct and awareness at times seemed above a lot of your other players. I can think of a pass that was thrown to him, late in the game, while he was streaking that was very off target (he was near the basket, to the left of the lane).
but my Duke friends, it is nice to see you guys this good this early, and obvi a win is a win. Hope we have some friends in the east... because I am hopeful we will be seeing you in early April

sic em bears

[ice-9]

Here's what's even better -- the kid isn't even satisfied with his performance! Check out this video where he comments that our perimeter can be a little stagnant at times: http://espn.go.com/blog/CollegeBasketballNation/post/_/id/19127/video-kyrie-irving-on-his-31-point-night

How awesome is guy??

[Bluedevil114]

What is amazing is that Izzo, Michigan State, Lucious and Lucas main goal coming in to the game was to stop Irving or at least contain him. He goes off for 31 points.

[buzz]

The college game is still adjusting to the speed of Kyrie Irving. :D

[Billy Dat]

Why come back down to Earth? The view from the Moon is pretty sweet.

His scoring is just a by-product of his amazing all around court generalship. I am most impressed by the way he runs the team, controls the game, and gets his points without forcing.

Want to dangle a carrot? As K said in the post game presser, he needs to improve on defense.

Unless their is a lockout, we've only got this kid one year. I am carried away and don't plan to reign it in.

[MChambers]

Just imagine how good he'd be if he wasn't confined by Duke's "system". (Credit to Dexter Strickland.)

[Cockabeau]

Kyrie Irving is Chris Paul/Isiah Thomas/Malcolm Delaney rolled into one person

[4decadedukie]

Kyrie's performance last night was simply SUPERB, not for a freshman during his first season's early games, but for any student-athlete, against any team, in any high-pressure environment, at any experience level, and without any reservations.

With this clearly said, I was equally impressed with his brief, post-game ESPN interview, where his humility, articulateness and TEAM-ORIENTATION were readily apparent. Highly successful intercollegiate basketball is certainly about superior athleticism and on-court execution, but it is also requires leadership, selflessness, self-discipline, team-focus, chemistry, and continuous improvement; thus far, Mr. Irving shows an abundance of ALL of these characteristics.

[superdave]

If Irving averages 12 points per game, I dont care. As long as he makes his teammates better I am happy. That's what a point guard is supposed to do and he's getting better at it each game. He's also becoming more vocal, more of an emotional leader and more assertive. He's growing fast.

Now if he can figure out how to get the Plums some dunks by driving the lane, We'll jump another level.

[Billy Dat]

Just imagine how good he'd be if he wasn't confined by Duke's "system". (Credit to Dexter Strickland.)

I was thinking about this quote last night, too. Who has the inflexible system, Dexter? I bet you're whole squad is feeling a little like that square peg right now...when the only thing you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[Lid]

I refuse to come back down to earth until Kyrie comes back down to earth. And that doesn't appear to be happening anytime soon.

My plan: be irrationally exuberant as much as possible this season. Life is too short not to savor every minute of a VERY fun ride.

[roywhite]

If Irving averages 12 points per game, I dont care. As long as he makes his teammates better I am happy. That's what a point guard is supposed to do and he's getting better at it each game. He's also becoming more vocal, more of an emotional leader and more assertive. He's growing fast.

Now if he can figure out how to get the Plums some dunks by driving the lane, We'll jump another level.

Agree. On the lobs for the Plums:

1. Michigan State was looking for them and defended it well; frankly, MSU is better defensively than nearly any other team we'll face
2. Some of the attempts were close; a little bit better timing, and these plays should click.
3. Yes, having this as part of Duke's offense will be a formidable additional weapon

[Bluealum]

The college game is still adjusting to the speed of Kyrie Irving. :D

Brilliant! That brought on a huge grin.

His play and poise beg for superlatives. After this game the hype machine and every other defensive teams focus will shift appropriately to him. Kyle, Nolan, Plums, and Dre and the rest will all be beneficiaries!

[arnie]

Many of us were able to see him early and in exhibitions and knew he would be great this year. Obviously, that feeling hasn't changed and I don't see any reason to believe he won't be 1st team All-ACC and possibly 1st team All American. He's simply that much better than most college players. He will have off games, but the idea that he's a freshman and therefore has a long learning curve doesn't really apply here.

I also don't see him playing with Austin Rivers next year - the NBA will have a draft and I think Kyrie will be picked very early.

[Pernell]

The last thing I want to see is the Duke fan base start getting disappointed with Kyrie having games of "only" 12 or 15 points, etc etc. Let's keep in mind he is still a freshman, he is still learning this Duke offense and he's still adjusting to the speed of the college game. While all of that makes his performance last night all that much more impressive, fans need to resist the urge to think he's "arrived" and that performances like that are here to stay.

It's only going to get harder for Kyrie from here on out. You don't put up 31 points like he did against a team like Michigan State and not move to the top of every other team's scouting report. Teams are going to throw everything but the kitchen sink at this kid and we'll have to wait and see how he's able to adjust.

Anyway, I just hope the fan base comes back down to earth relatively quickly and doesn't start heaping crazy expectations on this kid.

I haven't been on here in a very long time, but as a Dukie from Jersey, high expectations are warranted for this kid. I've seen him play through highschool and at AAU tournaments and I knew he was going to be a special player(because of his skillset and demeanor).

I think that's nice that you're looking out for him but don't forget he's had strong performances against Michigan State and Kansas State(two highly regarded teams!). And although he definitely was doing his thing last night, State's speedy guard was getting past him pretty easily, but I will not quibble about a couple of minor baskets.

Kyrie is maintaining the high standard of other Duke Players from Jerz, and he's only going to get better. Get out your popcorn!

[miramar]

The only problem I could see is that at the end he looked pretty tired on defense after playing 36 minutes. That's a lot of minutes for any freshman, but considering the opponent and the way he was playing, Coach K pretty much had to leave him in. Fortunately, he will have plenty of time to rest up after the Butler game on Saturday.

To think that last year at this time, everybody thought that Duke had flopped by not getting Barnes so Kyrie looked like the consolation prize. Well, that's no small consolation, to say the least.

[SupaDave]

The only problem I could see is that at the end he looked pretty tired on defense after playing 36 minutes. That's a lot of minutes for any freshman, but considering the opponent and the way he was playing, Coach K pretty much had to leave him in. Fortunately, he will have plenty of time to rest up after the Butler game on Saturday.

To think that last year at this time, everybody thought that Duke had flopped by not getting Barnes so Kyrie looked like the consolation prize. Well, that's no small consolation, to say the least.

Did you happen to notice what the State players looked like? :)

And it was generally known that Kyrie was our top priority...

[dukelifer]

Kyrie's game last night was truly one for the ages. I'm trying to think of a more impressive game by a freshman since I've been watching Duke. I can't come up with one. I'll be saving that game on my DVR for quite a while.

That being said, it's nice to bask in the jaw-dropping amazement at his prowess against MSU, but let's make sure we don't get too carried away.

The last thing I want to see is the Duke fan base start getting disappointed with Kyrie having games of "only" 12 or 15 points, etc etc. Let's keep in mind he is still a freshman, he is still learning this Duke offense and he's still adjusting to the speed of the college game. While all of that makes his performance last night all that much more impressive, fans need to resist the urge to think he's "arrived" and that performances like that are here to stay.

It's only going to get harder for Kyrie from here on out. You don't put up 31 points like he did against a team like Michigan State and not move to the top of every other team's scouting report. Teams are going to throw everything but the kitchen sink at this kid and we'll have to wait and see how he's able to adjust.

Anyway, I just hope the fan base comes back down to earth relatively quickly and doesn't start heaping crazy expectations on this kid.

It is not as much about how many points he averages but what he is capable of with the ball in his hands. He is a gifted player- and can do things handling the ball that few if any college players can do. He is also a gamer- likes to play in the big moment. So we should not expect him to get 30 every night because Duke does not need him to get 30. But when a game is on the line and someone needs to take over- Duke has someone who has the skillset to do it. That will always make Duke dangerous. And if they throw the kitchen sink at him- well I like our chances with Kyle and Nolan left open.

[johnb]

This isn't exactly a thread of getting back to earth.

Kyrie is a tremendous talent, and he made multiple drives to the basket that were stunning. But he's a point guard, and one of his duties is to keep getting better at making his teammates better. If our offense consists of him driving the lane and our multiple other stars watching and waiting for the rebound or the occasional billowing lob, then he will have failed at his role. He, his teammates, and his coaches are unlikely to let that happen, but let's not get entirely breathless about how he's suddenly as good as Williams/Hurley/Paul. For him to be that good, he has to see to it that the other All-ACC (and All-AA) talents on this team are getting properly fed and nourished, which is as impt as the highlight stuff.

[BD80]

Hey Harrison!

If you really want to build a "brand," get off Skype, and turn in a performance like Kyrie's, against a top team on national TV. And then credit your teammates.

[CampbellBlueDevil]

If team's decide to throw the "kitchen sink" at him, well that's just leaving our other studs open for big nights. KI may have an eleven point outing... but he'll end up with about 15 assists while the rest of the team carries the scoring burden.

[flyingdutchdevil]

If team's decide to throw the "kitchen sink" at him, well that's just leaving our other studs open for big nights. KI may have an eleven point outing... but he'll end up with about 15 assists while the rest of the team carries the scoring burden.

To me, that's the beauty of Kyrie - he is incredibly versatile. He can turn into a scorer or turn into an a facilitator depending on the competition. The game plan of MSU was to play strict man-to-man defense, which limited the effectiveness of certain players. Fortunately, it takes more than one player to stop Kyrie!

I can't wait when he racks up 15 assists and gets 7 players into double digit scoring. You know it's gonna happen soon

[Gewebe14]

Let's not and say we did.

[ajgoodfella7]

I really see no reason to come back down to earth. He just offensively dominated 2 of the best teams in the country in his 7th game. I feel like watching him that if he really wanted to, he could score 30 points every game right now. If he was an outside scorer, slumps would be expected. But when he can get to the rim whenever he wants, against whoever he wants, I don't expect him to have any kind of prolonged slump this year.

[ncexnyc]

This isn't exactly a thread of getting back to earth.

Kyrie is a tremendous talent, and he made multiple drives to the basket that were stunning. But he's a point guard, and one of his duties is to keep getting better at making his teammates better. If our offense consists of him driving the lane and our multiple other stars watching and waiting for the rebound or the occasional billowing lob, then he will have failed at his role. He, his teammates, and his coaches are unlikely to let that happen, but let's not get entirely breathless about how he's suddenly as good as Williams/Hurley/Paul. For him to be that good, he has to see to it that the other All-ACC (and All-AA) talents on this team are getting properly fed and nourished, which is as impt as the highlight stuff.
It's nice to see someone actually has the good sense to comprehend and appreciate what the OP was talking about.

I watched the game after getting home from work early this morning and concluded that Kyrie is a high risk/high reward PG. So yes, we'll get a number of coast to coast drives. We'll get a play like at the end of last night's game where Kyrie dribbles around in circles, leaving every State player reaching for air, before he lays it in the basket, but we'll also get the blown fullcourt passes, failed lob attempts, and like in the game last night the failed attempt to split two defenders who were pressing him at the end of the game. Fortunately, that play resulted in the ball bouncing right to Kyle if I'm not mistaken.

His defense at the end of the game was rather shakey, which was pointed out by Dick Vitale after Lucas blew by Kyrie on consecutive plays, but I'll attribute that to fatigue, as well as the fact that Lucas is an excellent player himself.

How will he handle junk defenses he hasn't seen before? So yes, while Kyrie can do many things we haven't had from our PG in quite some time, he does have room to improve.

[roywhite]

It's nice to see someone actually has the good sense to comprehend and appreciate what the OP was talking about.

I watched the game after getting home from work early this morning and concluded that Kyrie is a high risk/high reward PG. So yes, we'll get a number of coast to coast drives. We'll get a play like at the end of last night's game where Kyrie dribbles around in circles, leaving every State player reaching for air, before he lays it in the basket, but we'll also get the blown fullcourt passes, failed lob attempts, and like in the game last night the failed attempt to split two defenders who were pressing him at the end of the game. Fortunately, that play resulted in the ball bouncing right to Kyle if I'm not mistaken.

His defense at the end of the game was rather shakey, which was pointed out by Dick Vitale after Lucas blew by Kyrie on consecutive plays, but I'll attribute that to fatigue, as well as the fact that Lucas is an excellent player himself.

How will he handle junk defenses he hasn't seen before? So yes, while Kyrie can do many things we haven't had from our PG in quite some time, he does have room to improve.

Well, I guess there are different ways to look at things.

I'd say this glass is about 95% full.

I fully expect Kyrie to continue to progress; he has a great attitude for the game and a great coaching staff to help him.

[sagegrouse]

It's nice to see someone actually has the good sense to comprehend and appreciate what the OP was talking about.

I watched the game after getting home from work early this morning and concluded that Kyrie is a high risk/high reward PG. So yes, we'll get a number of coast to coast drives. We'll get a play like at the end of last night's game where Kyrie dribbles around in circles, leaving every State player reaching for air, before he lays it in the basket, but we'll also get the blown fullcourt passes, failed lob attempts, and like in the game last night the failed attempt to split two defenders who were pressing him at the end of the game. Fortunately, that play resulted in the ball bouncing right to Kyle if I'm not mistaken.

His defense at the end of the game was rather shakey, which was pointed out by Dick Vitale after Lucas blew by Kyrie on consecutive plays, but I'll attribute that to fatigue, as well as the fact that Lucas is an excellent player himself.

How will he handle junk defenses he hasn't seen before? So yes, while Kyrie can do many things we haven't had from our PG in quite some time, he does have room to improve.

You are right about the mistakes, and I well remember JWill's adjustment period to the college game.

WRT the last minute: that was the classic "prevent defense" that doesn't prevent anything. In trying not to foul, none of the Duke players played any decent defense.

sagegrouse

[Faison1]

It's nice to see someone actually has the good sense to comprehend and appreciate what the OP was talking about.

I watched the game after getting home from work early this morning and concluded that Kyrie is a high risk/high reward PG. So yes, we'll get a number of coast to coast drives. We'll get a play like at the end of last night's game where Kyrie dribbles around in circles, leaving every State player reaching for air, before he lays it in the basket, but we'll also get the blown fullcourt passes, failed lob attempts, and like in the game last night the failed attempt to split two defenders who were pressing him at the end of the game. Fortunately, that play resulted in the ball bouncing right to Kyle if I'm not mistaken.

His defense at the end of the game was rather shakey, which was pointed out by Dick Vitale after Lucas blew by Kyrie on consecutive plays, but I'll attribute that to fatigue, as well as the fact that Lucas is an excellent player himself.

How will he handle junk defenses he hasn't seen before? So yes, while Kyrie can do many things we haven't had from our PG in quite some time, he does have room to improve.

Maybe he was instructed not to foul, as they were trying to let the clock run. Also, he was perhaps a bit winded towards the end, and was hoping the helpside D would back him up, which it uncharacteristically did not.

[arnie]

How will he handle junk defenses he hasn't seen before? So yes, while Kyrie can do many things we haven't had from our PG in quite some time, he does have room to improve.[/QUOTE]

Yes and Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, etc, also have room to improve. I choose to believe the ACC has a once in a decade type point guard and I'm elated that he's at Duke and Drew II/Marshall are at carolina.

[PADukeMom]

Kyrie's advantage is Kyle & Nolan. He is playing & learning from the best.

[InSpades]

I refuse to come back down to earth as well :).

It would be one thing if Kyrie was shooting lights out from 3 point land and eventually he'd have to cool down. There's a saying in baseball that "speed doesn't go into a slump". Hitters can get hot or cold, but a guy who can run can always run. The things Kyrie does on the court are not things that can be streaky. Is he gonna start missing his ridiculous finishes at the rim? I guess it's possible, but he makes an amazingly high percentage of them right now. He may not keep up his 3-point shooting (he's hitting 44%, which is awesome). But he's always going to be able to beat people off the dribble. He's always going to get into the lane, and unless the devote more than 2 guys to stop him once he gets there, he's still going to finish.

What are other teams going to do? Double team him? Who do you want to leave open on this Duke team?

[johnb]

My concerns about our breathlessness:
1. We're setting him up for a fall if we expect 30 points a night.
2. We're implying that we prefer 30 with 4 assists and 3 TO's, when I think we might prefer 16 with 10 assists and 2 TO's.
3. We're implying that he is far and away the best player on our team, which feels unfair to our seniors. It also seems untrue; one of them scored 30 in our last nationally-televised game and the other is also a terrific guard.
4. We're setting up the team for the sorts of divisions that can cause teams to implode.

My view: he's an outstanding talent, but to be a great point guard, he has to show that he can make the team function better night in and night out. I think he has the potential to do that, but it's a big job

[detule]

This isn't exactly a thread of getting back to earth.

K\If our offense consists of him driving the lane and our multiple other stars watching and waiting for the rebound or the occasional billowing lob, then he will have failed at his role. He, his teammates, and his coaches are unlikely to let that happen, but let's not get entirely breathless about how he's suddenly as good as Williams/Hurley/Paul. For him to be that good, he has to see to it that the other All-ACC (and All-AA) talents on this team are getting properly fed and nourished, which is as impt as the highlight stuff.

Great post. I too, sometimes wish that Kyrie would pass the ball when Nolan or Kyle are emphatically waving their hands at the perimeter and he has his head down and plows on his way to the basket. I know this does not make much sense seeing how ridiculously efficient he has been, both in his drives and at the stripe, so don't jump on me. In my mind at least though, I would much rather see a 15pts/10assist stat line, than 32pt/4 assist - especially this early on in the season, when the whole team is developing, and could benefit from shots at the basket. And I absolutely know that he is perfectly capable of putting up fantastic assist numbers, both because of his great great skill set, and because of the players he is surrounded with.

Ok, not trying to stir anything up, I know everyone here, and on the team as well is perfectly happy with the way KI is playing (I mean how can you not be happy for your team mate when he puts +30 and shoulders your team to victory?) And this is such a great problem to have - and perhaps this is why I am not so used to it - in recent history there hasn't been a Duke team with so much offensive firepower.

Couple of other things and I know this has been mentioned before - he is such a great rebounder for his size! I was watching him yesterday and I think he has great timing. I know everyone is going bananas about his defense, and it really is above par for a freshman, but I wish he would stop cheating behind screens at times. I saw this happening a few times in the past games, less so yesterday.

[detule]

My concerns about our breathlessness:

2. We're implying that we prefer 30 with 4 assists and 3 TO's, when I think we might prefer 16 with 10 assists and 2 TO's.



In my mind at least though, I would much rather see a 15pts/10assist stat line, than 32pt/4 assist - especially this early on in the season,

Ha, I guess we're on the same page!:)

[jv001]

Great post. I too, sometimes wish that Kyrie would pass the ball when Nolan or Kyle are emphatically waving their hands at the perimeter and he has his head down and plows on his way to the basket. I know this does not make much sense seeing how ridiculously efficient he has been, both in his drives and at the stripe, so don't jump on me. In my mind at least though, I would much rather see a 15pts/10assist stat line, than 32pt/4 assist - especially this early on in the season, when the whole team is developing, and could benefit from shots at the basket. And I absolutely know that he is perfectly capable of putting up fantastic assist numbers, both because of his great great skill set, and because of the players he is surrounded with.

Ok, not trying to stir anything up, I know everyone here, and on the team as well is perfectly happy with the way KI is playing (I mean how can you not be happy for your team mate when he puts +30 and shoulders your team to victory?) And this is such a great problem to have - and perhaps this is why I am not so used to it - in recent history there hasn't been a Duke team with so much offensive firepower.

Couple of other things and I know this has been mentioned before - he is such a great rebounder for his size! I was watching him yesterday and I think he has great timing. I know everyone is going bananas about his defense, and it really is above par for a freshman, but I wish he would stop cheating behind screens at times. I saw this happening a few times in the past games, less so yesterday.

Kyrie has scored 31 points. So I don't think we can say this is normal, at least not yet. We have had multiple leading scorers in our games so far and that tells me Kyrie has not been selfish in his play. This team has room to grow and will. That goes for Kyrie as well as Kyle and Nolan. I believe in Coach K and I have no worries about Kyrie Irving. Go Duke!

[Acymetric]

My concerns about our breathlessness:
1. We're setting him up for a fall if we expect 30 points a night.
2. We're implying that we prefer 30 with 4 assists and 3 TO's, when I think we might prefer 16 with 10 assists and 2 TO's.
3. We're implying that he is far and away the best player on our team, which feels unfair to our seniors. It also seems untrue; one of them scored 30 in our last nationally-televised game and the other is also a terrific guard.
4. We're setting up the team for the sorts of divisions that can cause teams to implode.

My view: he's an outstanding talent, but to be a great point guard, he has to show that he can make the team function better night in and night out. I think he has the potential to do that, but it's a big job

Who exactly is saying they expect 30 points a night and would be disappointed with anything less? You're making a problem where there isn't one. Relax, enjoy a spectacular performance, and look forward to him putting up big games in the future (whether that comes in the form of points, assists, steals, or "intangibles").

[detule]

You're making a problem where there isn't one. Relax, enjoy a spectacular performance, and look forward to him putting up big games in the future (whether that comes in the form of points, assists, steals, or "intangibles").

I think everyone is having a lot of fun, and not so sure why this is a big deal - I mean if we can have threads comparing him to Jay Will a few games into his young basketball career, why not say a few words about his 2 assists in 27mins vs Oregon, and 4 assists in 37 vs Michigan while surrounded with the likes of Kyle, and Nolan. I like how jv001 aptly put it - "there is room to grow."

[InSpades]

Great post. I too, sometimes wish that Kyrie would pass the ball when Nolan or Kyle are emphatically waving their hands at the perimeter and he has his head down and plows on his way to the basket. I know this does not make much sense seeing how ridiculously efficient he has been, both in his drives and at the stripe, so don't jump on me. In my mind at least though, I would much rather see a 15pts/10assist stat line, than 32pt/4 assist - especially this early on in the season, when the whole team is developing, and could benefit from shots at the basket. And I absolutely know that he is perfectly capable of putting up fantastic assist numbers, both because of his great great skill set, and because of the players he is surrounded with.


Like it or not, Kyrie with "his head down and plows on his way to the basket" is probably our best offensive play. He's crazy successful so far when he does that (and I don't think his head is really down!). If anything Kyle and Nolan have forced too many things. Kyle has taken some ridiculously quick 3 point shots and some really tough fadeaway jump shots. Kyrie's efficiency when compared to their efficiency shows you who is forcing things and who is not forcing things. I don't worry about his assist total at all. Last night a lot of Nolan's points were off one-on-one moves, which is fine. If the other team lets Duke's guards finish their own plays then they should take that. Michigan State also committed a lot of fouls in the paint which denied Duke some assists (Mason had a few good chances to finish around the rim taken away by hard fouls).

[detule]

Like it or not, Kyrie with "his head down and plows on his way to the basket" is probably our best offensive play. He's crazy successful so far when he does that (and I don't think his head is really down!).

Sure read my post, especially the part where I point out how efficient he's been doing what he does. Having said that, if indeed this is our go-to offensive play, then in my opinion this does not bode too well later down in the season. First, because he is a freshman, and more often than not, consistency is an issue for such a young player. Second, because there are teams that are very long on the inside with great shot blockers. Three, because one offensive play can't win a game.

So, no I don't think this is our best offensive play, or even if it is, I am not sure we should we should fall in love with it. I like Kyrie driving and dishing, I like Nolan driving and finishing/dishing, I like Kyle curling, and I DO like Kyrie driving and finishing. I am just saying balance is always a great thing to strive for. And to this end, let's use the early season to make sure everyone is firing on all cylinders later on. I know we were playing to win Michigan-State and not treating it as a tune up, but I was just posting in hopes to see better consistency in the games coming up before the ACC season - and I am sure we will.


If anything Kyle and Nolan have forced too many things. Kyle has taken some ridiculously quick 3 point shots and some really tough fadeaway jump shots.

Oh please, Kyle's game looks identical to me as it did last year - he makes those threes and nobody really qualifies them as "quick." Nolan has struggled with some turnovers, but I thought Scheyer got him in a better position in the half court set. Granted, Kyrie can get him in a better spot during a fast break, and Jon and Nolan had a few years to get their groove together, so this is no knock on Kyrie. Just something to work towards.


I don't worry about his assist total at all.

Good for you, and I don't worry about it too much either. I have no way of knowing that we would be a better team if he makes that pass or not, especially given how freakishly efficient he has been. And for the record I think KI and Walker are the two best guards I have seen on TV this year (other may be there, but haven't shown it on ESPN yet.)

Edited to add: I will stop with this train of thought now, because reading my posts I sound too much like nit-picking Irving's game, when I really don't intend to. I was just trying to convey the idea that balance is always a good thing, and a point guard who can get his entire team involved is that much better for it. I love the kid, love the intensity he plays with, love his confidence and his ability to finish at the rim. We lucked out with Kyrie, and that's a fact.

[moonpie23]

did anyone see the play where lucious(or lucas) got free for a drive to basket and kyrie was chasing him......nolan appeared to just back off and NOT come from the other side to intercept or challenge..........kyrie kind of got on nolan about being passive with a "come on man, you gotta help me" look...


what i don't want to see is the team start to fall into "kyrie watching" like they did with JJ a lot....

i am not concerned with kyrie's numbers cause i know the best coach and staff in the game is going to use him and teach him how to be the best point guard in the game...

last night, he scored......another night, he will dish.....

[dukeENG2003]

Agree. On the lobs for the Plums:

1. Michigan State was looking for them and defended it well; frankly, MSU is better defensively than nearly any other team we'll face
2. Some of the attempts were close; a little bit better timing, and these plays should click.
3. Yes, having this as part of Duke's offense will be a formidable additional weapon

The main thing that aggravated me was that the refs weren't calling what were some pretty clear fouls on these plays. MSU was hip checking the Plums on those screen and roll plays everytime. The only one they called was the one that was so bad it caused Mason to sprain his ankle, but it happened with regularity. Part of it is that the Plums need to learn to absorb that contact and finish anyways, but that doesn't mean its legal. . .

[Kedsy]

It's only going to get harder for Kyrie from here on out. You don't put up 31 points like he did against a team like Michigan State and not move to the top of every other team's scouting report. Teams are going to throw everything but the kitchen sink at this kid and we'll have to wait and see how he's able to adjust.

Anyway, I just hope the fan base comes back down to earth relatively quickly and doesn't start heaping crazy expectations on this kid.

First, I am always in favor of keeping expectations in check. That said, I doubt we can heap expectations on Kyrie any higher than his expectations on himself.

Michigan State was already throwing everything, including the kitchen sink at him. Well, everything they could if they wanted to keep the score close. If they consistently triple teamed Kyrie he wouldn't have had 31 points and 4 assists, but he might have had 10 points and 20 assists and that would have been better for Duke on the scoreboard.

As far as whether he will put up 31 points every game, I don't want him to. He only did that against Michigan State because the Spartans were defending our other players so well and Kyrie was forced to step up and score himself.

The great thing about this year's Duke offense is we always have three or four players on the court that deserve a double team, and the remaining players have enough offense that they can't be left undefended. What Kyrie needs to do on offense is read the landscape and find the easy score, whether it's him scoring or one of the many other excellent options doesn't matter. He'll get better at it as the season goes on. Which I suppose is a scary thought for our opponents.

[InSpades]

Edited to add: I will stop with this train of thought now, because reading my posts I sound too much like nit-picking Irving's game, when I really don't intend to. I was just trying to convey the idea that balance is always a good thing, and a point guard who can get his entire team involved is that much better for it. I love the kid, love the intensity he plays with, love his confidence and his ability to finish at the rim. We lucked out with Kyrie, and that's a fact.

If you look at the season as a whole we are pretty balanced. On any given night one player might do more than another and there's nothing wrong with that. Go with the hot hand.

I do think Kyle has taken some shots he wouldn't have taken last year. It's not just that though. This years team is different. Last year's team was so efficient because of great offensive rebounding. This team needs to be efficient because they take good shots (and are good shooters). So a good shot last year might not be a good shot this year.

[RoyalBlue08]

First, I am always in favor of keeping expectations in check. That said, I doubt we can heap expectations on Kyrie any higher than his expectations on himself.

Michigan State was already throwing everything, including the kitchen sink at him. Well, everything they could if they wanted to keep the score close. If they consistently triple teamed Kyrie he wouldn't have had 31 points and 4 assists, but he might have had 10 points and 20 assists and that would have been better for Duke on the scoreboard.

As far as whether he will put up 31 points every game, I don't want him to. He only did that against Michigan State because the Spartans were defending our other players so well and Kyrie was forced to step up and score himself.

The great thing about this year's Duke offense is we always have three or four players on the court that deserve a double team, and the remaining players have enough offense that they can't be left undefended. What Kyrie needs to do on offense is read the landscape and find the easy score, whether it's him scoring or one of the many other excellent options doesn't matter. He'll get better at it as the season goes on. Which I suppose is a scary thought for our opponents.

I really like this post and agree whole heartedly. I would be much more concerned with a 31 pt output from our freshman PG if he was forcing a lot of shots. But really he seemed to me to be just taking what was there. During the game, I often find myself completely agreeing with his decisions to pass or drive depending on how his man or the defense is playing at the time. I guess it is all the games and international competitions and whatever, but the maturity to his game is just remarkable. Y'all can come back down to Earth if you want to, but I'm just going to strap myself in and enjoy the ride!

[tylervinyard]

I think Kyrie's ridiculous point production in this game could happen again throughout the year, but only rarely, and only in games where it's absolutely necessary. Potentially the Florida State game since they're such a great defensive team. So I don't think we should be too worried about lack of balance in this particular game. I think this game was actually illustrative of how much balance we really do have.

I think it's smart to look back at last year. All that was written about was how great our top three players were, and how on any given night, as long as two of those three were playing well, we would be tough to beat. It was rare to see all three play well at the same time, but when they did, it was beautiful e.g., the FF game against WVA. It was also rare to have two of the three play badly. What makes this year's team so tough is: how can you stop everyone? Someone has stepped up in every single game we've played so far. This year we've had Kyle with a 30 point game, Kyrie with a 31 point game, Mason with a 25/12/5/3 game, games where both Dre and Seth give us huge games off the bench, and games where Nolan gets 9 assists (he's been solid throughout in points). We're still waiting for breakout games from Ryan and Miles, but I imagine those will come a little later in the season. We still haven't had a game where everyone is clicking. I'm hoping it'll start happening near the end of the season. Oh man, how can you not be excited about our potential?

If we can cut down on turnovers, take smarter shots, and not grow stagnant in our offensive flow while we feed the hot hand in each game and continue to grow in our communication skills becoming more of a defensive "unit" (like last year, just not the same style), the sky's the limit. Outside of Kyle and Nolan, we're just so young, and that's exciting.

[A-Tex Devil]

I'll say it (http://rathskeller.fantake.com/2010/12/02/most-valuable-duke-freshman-since-%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6/). Kyrie Irving is the most valuable freshman of the K era. He's not the most important, that's Johnny Dawkins. He's probably not the most talented, as Corey, Luol and JWill would all have arguments.

But as far as being the integral factor that makes this team go, and the fact that he's frankly the best player on a team with national title aspirations, I don't remember a freshman that was as valuable to a particular team as Kyrie is and will be.

In the era of superstar freshmen, Duke finally has theirs. What's awesome, though, is we have superstar seniors to go with him.

[I will accept Bobby Hurley as a viable alternative]

[Mike Corey]

I think Kyrie's ridiculous point production in this game could happen again throughout the year, but only rarely, and only in games where it's absolutely necessary. Potentially the Florida State game since they're such a great defensive team. So I don't think we should be too worried about lack of balance in this particular game. I think this game was actually illustrative of how much balance we really do have.

I think this is right.

After seven games, we have five guys averaging in double figures, with another a few ppg behind.

And in seven games, we've had 5 different guys lead the team in scoring.

We have a long way to go in developing our identify and figuring out who will play what role and when. But at this point, it's clear that we have more than weapons: we have a fistful of guys that can step up and produce when necessary.

Yesterday, Kyrie had the hot hand.

No need to panic about being top-heavy at this juncture.

[Indoor66]

First, I am always in favor of keeping expectations in check. That said, I doubt we can heap expectations on Kyrie any higher than his expectations on himself.

Michigan State was already throwing everything, including the kitchen sink at him. Well, everything they could if they wanted to keep the score close. If they consistently triple teamed Kyrie he wouldn't have had 31 points and 4 assists, but he might have had 10 points and 20 assists and that would have been better for Duke on the scoreboard.

As far as whether he will put up 31 points every game, I don't want him to. He only did that against Michigan State because the Spartans were defending our other players so well and Kyrie was forced to step up and score himself.

The great thing about this year's Duke offense is we always have three or four players on the court that deserve a double team, and the remaining players have enough offense that they can't be left undefended. What Kyrie needs to do on offense is read the landscape and find the easy score, whether it's him scoring or one of the many other excellent options doesn't matter. He'll get better at it as the season goes on. Which I suppose is a scary thought for our opponents.

I agree with you. If you take away one thing you give up another. Last night they took away Kyle (to a degree) and Nolan (to a degree) and, guess what, they got lot's of Kyrie.

I do not believe that Kyrie will score like this regularly because next game they will concentrate on him and Kyle, Nolan or Andre or Seth with go off - or several of them. You got to pick your poison and last night, to MSU, Kyrie was the lesser, unproven poison - until last night!

[Bluedevil114]

The only problem I could see is that at the end he looked pretty tired on defense after playing 36 minutes. That's a lot of minutes for any freshman, but considering the opponent and the way he was playing, Coach K pretty much had to leave him in. Fortunately, he will have plenty of time to rest up after the Butler game on Saturday.

To think that last year at this time, everybody thought that Duke had flopped by not getting Barnes so Kyrie looked like the consolation prize. Well, that's no small consolation, to say the least.

According to Coach K he was also sick on Monday and did not practice. The amazing part is that as teams try to scheme against Kyrie that is only going to leave Kyle, Nolan and the rest of the gang open. Last night they thought they could put Lucas/Lucious on him and stop him and guard Kyle and Nolan. As teams continue to scheme against Kyrie that is going to leave the other guys for easy baskets and open jumpers. This team is just beginning to learn that.

Kyrie is unguardable. Even Jason Williams was amazed last night. Jay Williams could not do some of those things as a freshman. His left hand is unbelievable. Why would we ever want to come down to earth when it is so much better where Kyrie is?

[davekay1971]

I'm just going to stay in my happy little orbit in the stratosphere, thanks.

Here's why:
1) Kyrie's 2 best games came against the best competition we've faced.
2) His judgement is very solid - all season he's been great about running the offense and getting his own shots in the rhythm of the game and the offense. Even last night, he got 31 points taking what came naturally in the system.
3) He's the perfect piece to complete this team. We have a solid inside game thanks to the improvement in Mason, Miles, and Ryan. We have one of the best forwards in America in Kyle. We have a plethora of scorers on the perimeter. And now we have the engine to make it all go.
4) Teams now have to gameplan to contain Kyrie, particularly his J-Will-esque drives (yeah, I went there). Sag back in to help on Kyrie, watch Nolan, Kyle, Dre, or Seth put in a dagger 3. Rotate up to help him and watch the dish go to Mason, Miles, Ryan, or Kyle cutting to the basket. Who's man is going to rotate off to help on him?

We were already a pain to defend before Kyrie announced last night, spectacularly, that he can take over a game. I think we just became a nightmare. Now imagine what happens when Kyle and Seth get out of their of mini-slumps.

[miramar]

And it was generally known that Kyrie was our top priority...

I definitely agree that we knew that Kyrie was the more important of the two recruits for the Duke program, but what I meant was that the Barnes recruitment became a national phenomenon, and it seems that a lot of people concluded that it was just one more proof that Carolina had it all over Duke (or that Duke was the #2 choice again).

Unfortunately, those kinds of impressions can become self-fulfilling prophecies as far as new recruits are concerned, so I am glad that the conventional wisdom has been proven wrong.

I know it's way too early to celebrate, but it's nice to compare Kyrie's and Skype's performance in the ACC-Big 10 Challenge: 31 points on 8/12 shooting & 13/16 on free throws vs. 8 points on 2/9 & 3/3. Something tells me that Barnes will not repeat the preseason result of 46 out of 62 votes for Rookie of the Year from the ACC beat writers.

[Kedsy]

Now imagine what happens when Kyle and Seth get out of their of mini-slumps.

In our last two games, Kyle is averaging 22.5 ppg and 6.0 rpg, shooting 48.3% from the floor (43.8% from 3-point range) and 90.9% from the FT line. If that's a "mini-slump," I don't care if he snaps out of it.

[licc85]

the great thing about this team is that we have at least 4 guys who are capable of leading the team in scoring on any given night. Even if our opponent does everything in their power to shut down kyrie, he's just going to kill them with his passing and rack up the assists by dishing to one of his all-american senior teammates or a future lottery pick in mason. You can't stop this team by stopping one or even 2 of our key guys. And the best part is, Kyrie cannot be guarded by 1 person, he can take anyone off the bounce. He is an nba-ready point guard playing with 3 other first round talents and 2 other guys in dre and seth who are likely to make it as pros as well. I love it.

[hq2]

In all the time I've been following Duke basketball, I'd have to say that only Gene Banks and Jason Williams have played this well as freshmen. Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill and Christian Laettner had some pretty good games, but they had bad ones too. I haven't seen Irving have one yet. I think only Jwill had his kind of strength and body control going to the rim; the way he slides past fouls is truly amazing. We're seeing something truly special here; don't count on seeing him in a Duke uniform next year.

[Greg_Newton]

In all the time I've been following Duke basketball, I'd have to say that only Gene Banks and Jason Williams have played this well as freshmen. Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill and Christian Laettner had some pretty good games, but they had bad ones too. I haven't seen Irving have one yet. I think only Jwill had his kind of strength and body control going to the rim; the way he slides past fouls is truly amazing. We're seeing something truly special here; don't count on seeing him in a Duke uniform next year.

Last night begs the question... was this the best game ever by a Duke freshman?

Statistically, Jason Williams' best game was against Maryland on 3/12/2000, when he scored 23 on 53% shooting with 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, 1 block, and 6 TOs. Deng's was probably UNC on 3/6/04 when he scored 25 on 75% shooting with 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block and 1 TO.

I don't think either of those games compare to Kyrie's, especially considering how he carried the time against a top 5 contender. Am I forgetting any other spectacular single-game efforts by freshmen - Gene Banks, probably? I couldn't find any game logs for him, and am too young to really remember him.

[Duvall]

Last night begs the question... was this the best game ever by a Duke freshman?

Statistically, Jason Williams' best game was against Maryland on 3/12/2000, when he scored 23 on 53% shooting with 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, 1 block, and 6 TOs. Deng's was probably UNC on 3/6/04 when he scored 25 on 75% shooting with 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block and 1 TO.

I don't think either of those games compare to Kyrie's, especially considering how he carried the time against a top 5 contender. Am I forgetting any other spectacular single-game efforts by freshmen - Gene Banks, probably? I couldn't find any game logs for him, and am too young to really remember him.

This comes to mind (http://www.gopack.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/031603aaa.html) - much weaker opponent, but bigger moment.

[MChambers]

This comes to mind (http://www.gopack.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/031603aaa.html) - much weaker opponent, but bigger moment.

That was an amazing shooting performance, especially in the closing minutes of tht game,although I'd argue that a point guard's overall responsibilities are greater, and that Irving yesterday was more impressive.

What are the other 30+ point performances by Duke freshman? Or should we count sophomore performances, in the day before freshman became eligible? (Yes, there was such a time, for the young'uns on the board.)

[davekay1971]

In our last two games, Kyle is averaging 22.5 ppg and 6.0 rpg, shooting 48.3% from the floor (43.8% from 3-point range) and 90.9% from the FT line. If that's a "mini-slump," I don't care if he snaps out of it.

That was referencing his shooting percentage for the recent several games (less than 40% from the floor, less than 30% from 3 excluding his excellent performance at Portland). Overall, I agree that I'd take Kyle's play for the past 7 games and be happy with it for the rest of the season...it's just scary and awesome that he can (and will) shoot even better.

[NSDukeFan]

Just imagine how good he'd be if he wasn't confined by Duke's "system". (Credit to Dexter Strickland.)

I think Calipari would have been able to turn Kyrie into a lottery pick if he had gone to UK. :p

[Newton_14]

In all the time I've been following Duke basketball, I'd have to say that only Gene Banks and Jason Williams have played this well as freshmen. Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill and Christian Laettner had some pretty good games, but they had bad ones too. I haven't seen Irving have one yet. I think only Jwill had his kind of strength and body control going to the rim; the way he slides past fouls is truly amazing. We're seeing something truly special here; don't count on seeing him in a Duke uniform next year.

Some dude named Johnny Dawkins was pretty good as a Freshman, and had a 31 point game at Maryland that year.... He averaged 18 ppg that year...

In my view JD is the clubhouse leader for best Freshman in the K era, but Kyrie may chase him down. Jason Williams would be my 2nd pick, and had he stayed healthy Elton Brand would have had a say in the matter.

[BD80]

... What are the other 30+ point performances by Duke freshman? Or should we count sophomore performances, in the day before freshman became eligible? (Yes, there was such a time, for the young'uns on the board.)

Do we consider the effect of the three point line and the 35 second shot-clock? (Yes, there was a time before the three point shot and a shot-clock).

Sophomores skew the comparison even though it was their first year, as they had a year of practicing in the system before playing and were a year older. Counterpoint, those players were up against upperclassmen that these days would have moved to the next level.

Maybe we should also consider players from my day, whose stats were suppressed by the time it would take to retrieve the ball from the peach basket and then lining up to jump center.

[Kedsy]

the great thing about this team is that we have at least 4 guys who are capable of leading the team in scoring on any given night.

Well, since we have five guys who have actually led the team in scoring on any given night already in the first seven games this season (Nolan, Seth, Kyle, Mason, and Kyrie), I agree we have "at least 4."

[Kedsy]

Am I forgetting any other spectacular single-game efforts by freshmen - Gene Banks, probably? I couldn't find any game logs for him, and am too young to really remember him.

Here are games logs for Gene Banks his freshman year: http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/logs.php?playerid=17&season=1977-78 .

A lot of good games (28-11-5 with a block and two steals on 9 for 12 shooting against ECU; 23-13-3 on 10 for 19 shooting against St. Joe's; 25 and 9 on 12 for 16 shooting at UNC; 22-10-3 on 8 for 14 shooting in the ACC championship; 22-12-3 on 8 for 15 shooting against Notre Dame in the Final Four; plus others).

But Kyrie has a lot of time left to top him.

[licc85]

This is completely against the intentions of the OP, but I have been a Duke fan Since around 1989, and I think Kyrie may be the most talented player to EVER play at duke, Grant Hill (Who I would argue currently holds that distinction) included. I know it's way to early to be even thinking any of this, but I just have this feeling that he has the potential to surpass all Duke players in All-Star appearances and likely postseason success as well. A few other players have a similar level of talent, and might even be more physically gifted (Rose, Wall), but Kyrie just has that special something, he gets up for big games, he's money in crunch time, and you can just tell he's going to be a hell of a leader. Everyone knows the NBA is a point guard's league, and Kyrie is the perfect lead guard for a pro-style team. He is truly, truly special. Let's hope he has a long, successful, and injury-free career both at Duke and in the pros.

[Johnboy]

I'll say it (http://rathskeller.fantake.com/2010/12/02/most-valuable-duke-freshman-since-%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6/). Kyrie Irving is the most valuable freshman of the K era. He's not the most important, that's Johnny Dawkins. He's probably not the most talented, as Corey, Luol and JWill would all have arguments.

[I will accept Bobby Hurley as a viable alternative]

If you must discount Dawkins*, you're still overlooking the most valuable freshman point guard of the K era, and it's the first true PG Coach K landed. In the 1982-83 season, I was a sophomore, Dawkins/Alarie/Bilas/Henderson were freshmen. We went 11-17. Dawkins ran the point because we had no one else to do it. Tommy Amaker arrived the next year and Coach K put the ball in his hands. The great class of the year before was much better, it's true, but from 11-17 (and a 43 point drubbing in the ACC Tourney) to 24-10 and knocking off #1 UNC (Jordan, Perkins, Wolf, K. Smith, B. Daugherty, et. al) in the ACC Semis, I think Mr. Amaker would have something to say about being valuable to a team and a program. Amaker was far from being the best statistically, but he was the difference and without him we aren't playing for the NCAA title two years later. As wonderful as the other freshmen you mention were, IMHO, Tommy Amaker is still the most valuable freshman point guard.

Obviously, this won't be settled w/r/t K.I. until after the season, but he's making a reasonable argument for himself.

[I might be convinced to accept Danny Ferry or Bobby Hurley as alternatives, as they were both integral to NCAA runner-up teams.]

*This may be fair when talking about "valuable" instead of "important" or "most talented" - Dawkins was MVP of a losing team his freshman year.

[Indoor66]

If you must discount Dawkins*, you're still overlooking the most valuable freshman point guard of the K era, and it's the first true PG Coach K landed. In the 1982-83 season, I was a sophomore, Dawkins/Alarie/Bilas/Henderson were freshmen. We went 11-17. Dawkins ran the point because we had no one else to do it. Tommy Amaker arrived the next year and Coach K put the ball in his hands. The great class of the year before was much better, it's true, but from 11-17 (and a 43 point drubbing in the ACC Tourney) to 24-10 and knocking off #1 UNC (Jordan, Perkins, Wolf, K. Smith, B. Daugherty, et. al) in the ACC Semis, I think Mr. Amaker would have something to say about being valuable to a team and a program. Amaker was far from being the best statistically, but he was the difference and without him we aren't playing for the NCAA title two years later. As wonderful as the other freshmen you mention were, IMHO, Tommy Amaker is still the most valuable freshman point guard.

Obviously, this won't be settled w/r/t K.I. until after the season, but he's making a reasonable argument for himself.

[I might be convinced to accept Danny Ferry or Bobby Hurley as alternatives, as they were both integral to NCAA runner-up teams.]

*This may be fair when talking about "valuable" instead of "important" or "most talented" - Dawkins was MVP of a losing team his freshman year.

How many hairs must we split on this impossible-to-resolve argument?

[hq2]

*This may be fair when talking about "valuable" instead of "important" or "most talented" - Dawkins was MVP of a losing team his freshman year.

Yes, I thought of mentioning Dawkins too, but he was the best player on a bad (i.e. still very young) team. Someone had to shoot, so he did. Banks and Williams both made a big impact on highly rated teams. In fact, up until now, no other freshman has had the impact that Banks did; he took the team from last in the conference to playing for the national championship* (* courtesy of missed layup by Rhode Island in the first round). So if Irving leads us all the way and makes first team All America, both of which seem possible, then his impact will be as much as Banks. What's amazing about Irving is that with two senior All Americans, he already looks like the best player on the team. That's impressive.

[A-Tex Devil]

Yes, I thought of mentioning Dawkins too, but he was the best player on a bad (i.e. still very young) team. Someone had to shoot, so he did. Banks and Williams both made a big impact on highly rated teams. In fact, up until now, no other freshman has had the impact that Banks did; he took the team from last in the conference to playing for the national championship* (* courtesy of missed layup by Rhode Island in the first round). So if Irving leads us all the way and makes first team All America, both of which seem possible, then his impact will be as much as Banks. What's amazing about Irving is that with two senior All Americans, he already looks like the best player on the team. That's impressive.

Bingo. This is what I mean. I am not discounting Dawkins. But that team wasn't very good his freshman year. When Ferry was a freshman, that was Dawkins' and Amaker's team. When you combine the aspirations for this year's team, and the fact that Kyrie may be the most important player on this year's team (but not the only indispensible player, obv.), that's where I am going with this.

[northernduke]

In my view JD is the clubhouse leader for best Freshman in the K era, but Kyrie may chase him down. Jason Williams would be my 2nd pick, and had he stayed healthy Elton Brand would have had a say in the matter.

I second that thought. I'm too young to have seen JD play in college, but I think Elton would have been the best Freshman Duke had in the last 20 years had he stayed healthy. I say this without looking at any stats and trying to remove any bias from JW winning a NC during his time on campus -- it's a total gut check opinion.

Aside from the numbers he's put up, I'm extremely impressed with Kyrie's relationship with the team and coaching staff -- at least what we've been able to see as outsiders looking in. I'd reference this with the JW quote from SLAM, "[he] isn’t concerned about his own."

[PADukeMom]

[QUOTE=moonpie23;453362]
what i don't want to see is the team start to fall into "kyrie watching" like they did with JJ a lot....

QUOTE]

You took the words right out of my fingers! JJ's senior year when we played Texas at the Meadowlands I said then the only team that beats DUKE is DUKE. Everyone was deferring shots to JJ. By the beginning of February JJ had tired legs & it showed.
By comparison last year's squad didn't have that "go-to" guy, everyone had to hustle. Even after the G-town loss I predicted nets in Indy b/c I saw fight in our guys not tired legs.
I don't think this is going to happen this year though. I think Kyle & Nolan find their shots.
Last night I rewatched the game on ESPNU...just to be amazed at Kyrie again. This kid is doing things that freshmen just aren't supposed to do.

[yancem]

I apologize if this has been pointed out earlier (I'm at work and don't have time to read the whole thread right now) but how can anyone seriously be worried about Duke's scoring balance right now. Yes, Irving scored 31 points which is higher than i would prefer from a pg, but Smith had 17, Singler 15 (off a poor shooting performance BTW) and Mason had 10. Besides Irving (8-12) the only other player to shoot 50% or better was Smith (Singler was 5-14) so maybe Irving shooting more was needed.

Looking at the other 6 games played this year, Duke has two players who have scored 30+ points (Singler and Irving) a third who hit the 25 point mark (Mason) and fourth that also broke the 20 mark (Smith). That's 4 players with 20+ scoring games in 7 games. That seem pretty balanced. I will be curious to see what the number ends up being by the end of the season (I'm betting Dawkins and Curry are added to the list).

As for assists, Irving could have of had several others last night if a) Singler was shooting better (BTW, not trying to rag on Singler he hit some key shots late in the game, he was just off early) or b) the Plumlee's hadn't gotten fouled or could have finished a few more plays. For the season he is averaging 5.6 apg and has had a few games in the 8-9 apg range. He's doing fine in that department. Give him some more time to develop chemistry with the rest of the team and I'm sure his assists will go up.

[Johnboy]

How many hairs must we split on this impossible-to-resolve argument?

Hey - it's the job of us old folks to remind you whippersnappers out there when they overlook great players of the past. Now get off my lawn ;-)

I was just thinking of the one player who seemed to make the biggest impact upon arrival. We were missing a vital cog, and Amaker supplied it, unspectacularly, with great defense, ballhandling, assists and control of tempo. Irving is a tremendous addition who allows us to do great things, but I imagine we would still be very good/excellent without him if we had to. We might have been OK, but I doubt we'd have been really good without Tommy. That's what I meant by most valuable ever.

You are, of course, correct that this is an impossible to resolve discussion - but what are sports for?

[airowe]

Of all the things to worry about, scoring balance is probably the least of my worries.

Kyrie's assists is probably 2nd on that list. You people who are concerned about Kyrie-watching do realize that he's leading the ACC in assists per game, right?

[Starter]

Of all the things to worry about, scoring balance is probably the least of my worries.

Kyrie's assists is probably 2nd on that list. You people who are concerned about Kyrie-watching do realize that he's leading the ACC in assists per game, right?

I know. You'd think some people were talking about Allen Iverson here or something. (Practice?)

Anyone stop to think that maybe Kyrie's ability to drive, score and draw a defense can actually help to set up the other guys in our offense?

On a side note, in his game against MSU, Kyrie actually outscored Kendall Marshall's first seven games combined. And people are actually somehow concerned about this guy?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Of all the things to worry about, scoring balance is probably the least of my worries.

Kyrie's assists is probably 2nd on that list. You people who are concerned about Kyrie-watching do realize that he's leading the ACC in assists per game, right?

With Nolan, of course ;)

Coincidentally, they both have the exact same number of points scored (118) and assists (39) so far this season.

[Johnboy]

Of all the things to worry about, scoring balance is probably the least of my worries.

Kyrie's assists is probably 2nd on that list. You people who are concerned about Kyrie-watching do realize that he's leading the ACC in assists per game, right?

Concur. "Kyrie watching" and assists are low on my concerns for this team. Not that I'm particularly worried about anything, because if we stay healthy we're going to be really really good. But if I want to worry about anything, front court depth, rebounds and communication on both ends of the floor top my list of things within control of the team. For example, I was a tad bit concerned with our front court in foul trouble vs. MSU.

[gumbomoop]

.... Kyrie just has that special something, he gets up for big games, he's money in crunch time, and you can just tell he's going to be a hell of a leader.

IMO, the single most important (1) physical asset in bball, esp for guards, is ball-handling. As to (2) psychological [?] asset, I'd put relentlessness at the top. Then I look at (3) mental approach, for which an intuitive feel for the game is most important. This would include decision-making, knowing/sensing where all other players are on the court, sensing where the flow of the ball will be seconds in advance.

(1) There is no question re Kyrie's ball-handling, and touch, another [by me] highly prized physical attribute. (2) And while 7 games is an insufficient data base, I'd say Kyrie may come to match Kyle in relentlessness, which, if accurate, would be striking. (3) Then, this intuitive feel stuff is, I think, the "special something" that Kyrie has. Seems to, anyway.

As numerous posters have pointed out on numerous threads, no matter how talented this team is, they might lose a game or 2 or 3 this season. But every poster absolutely knows that K and staff are planning and thinking about (a) Butler, and (b) season-long improvement, so it's highly likely that the key season-long project will be to get the team to "understand" each other, i.e., how to put each other, serially, relentlessly, collectively, into the best spot to score and stop the other team from scoring. ["Duke plays every play."]

Last season's team learned how to do these things [O and D, ... well, D and O] with great [as in a "great team"] efficiency. The 5 main guys really, really "understood" each other. How will Kyrie's "special something" play out over the course of the season? Will he be a joyful player, reveling in playing his substantial part in highlighting his senior mates' wonderful talents? In playing his substantial part in showing off Mason's stuff? In making the extra pass to Seth and Andre to allow them to contribute their brilliant shooting? In being one of 3 giddy frosh who have so much fun with each other?

And most important of all - because it's the single [not the only, but the single most important] thing we most care about - will Kyrie's special intuitive feel, honed [if intuition can be honed] by a season-long training-project, result in the right decisions at the several crucial moments in a tight game [or 2] in the NCAAT?

[91_92_01_10_15]

(3) Then, this intuitive feel stuff is, I think, the "special something" that Kyrie has. Seems to, anyway.

I would add to this that Kyrie seems to have a strong drive to be the best. Whether it's the best player on the court, the best in the league, or the best ever, it seems to me from listening to him that Kyrie wants to be it. Obviously, we haven't heard enough from him yet to make this determination, but it appears to me that he may have some of the mental makeup of a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods.

Really, who's to say he can't be as good as or even better than those guys? Not me. Go, Kyrie.

[Kedsy]

Obviously, we haven't heard enough from him yet to make this determination, but it appears to me that he may have some of the mental makeup of a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods.

Really, who's to say he can't be as good as or even better than those guys? Not me. Go, Kyrie.

Whoa, fella. I think you may be getting just a trifle bit ahead of yourself.

[moonpie23]

but it appears to me that he may have some of the mental makeup of a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods.

Really, who's to say he can't be as good as or even better than those guys? Not me. Go, Kyrie.


Whoa, fella. I think you may be getting just a trifle bit ahead of yourself.

only time will tell......but jordan wasn't jordan till he got to the pros....an excellent college player, but come on....

tiger? well, i don't know much about golf, but for every "great" talent (sports or otherwise, there is someone, somewhere, somehow, predicting that greatness..


Brian - "no, i'm telling you, these guys have talent coming out the wazoo....they are going to be huge!!"

Dick Rowe - “Groups with guitars are on their way out." (rejecting the beatles)

[Taco]

I would add to this that Kyrie seems to have a strong drive to be the best. Whether it's the best player on the court, the best in the league, or the best ever, it seems to me from listening to him that Kyrie wants to be it. Obviously, we haven't heard enough from him yet to make this determination, but it appears to me that he may have some of the mental makeup of a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods.

Really, who's to say he can't be as good as or even better than those guys? Not me. Go, Kyrie.

Who's to say that he won't fulfill biblical prophecies and come to be worshiped as The Messiah? Or invent faster-than-light travel?

Calling it now, Kyrie Irving will discover the Higgs Boson in 2012. Of course, schoolchildren of the future will learn of it as the Irving Boson.

[deezl]

Cool article about Mr. Irving in Slam Magazine.

Thank Me Later - http://www.slamonline.com/online/the-magazine/features/2010/12/thank-me-later/

Also, some wallpaper - http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/college/2010/12/wallpaper-dukes-kyrie-irving/

Hope it hasn't been posted I haven't read this whole thread.

[JayZee]

Love this quote from Kyle about Kyrie's play against MSU.

"I don't know if he was hot. He is always hot."

That's some serious respect. And really makes me want to see this team when Kyrie, Kyle, Nolan, Andre, Mason are all hot. Preferably when we are playing against a certain shade of light blue.

[stillcrazie]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/kevin_armstrong/06/21/kyrie.irving/index.html

I don't remember seeing this when it came out. I think it provides some history and insight into Kyrie's game, most importantly his relationship with his father. At the time he was ranked #21 in his recruiting class. Hope y'all enjoy this as much as I did.

[ForkFondler]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/kevin_armstrong/06/21/kyrie.irving/index.html

I don't remember seeing this when it came out. I think it provides some history and insight into Kyrie's game, most importantly his relationship with his father. At the time he was ranked #21 in his recruiting class. Hope y'all enjoy this as much as I did.

"The quaint nature of the $28,800-a-year school had been welcoming with eight-student math class sizes and parties at 15-bathroom mansions that had an elevator inside. Still, he felt unchallenged on the court, and wanted to see how his 26. 5 points per game held up against better players. The move rankled some for its transparent focus on basketball, but the family stood resolute in its decision and maintained that it would offer the best of both worlds. "

Awesome

[Underdog5]

In the past, I usually would get 2 types of responses after Duke games.

After wins... "I hate Duke! Player X is sooo overrated!"

After losses... "I told you Duke sucks! Player X is trash!"

Now, all I get is... "This Kyrie kid is a problem." Thank you Mr. Irving.

[jv001]

Love this quote from Kyle about Kyrie's play against MSU.

"I don't know if he was hot. He is always hot."

That's some serious respect. And really makes me want to see this team when Kyrie, Kyle, Nolan, Andre, Mason are all hot. Preferably when we are playing against a certain shade of light blue.

about one of our captains. Kyle and Nolan are not jealous of Kyrie and the attention he's getting. Makes me so proud of them. What a time to be a Duke University Basketball fan. Go Duke!

[ambitiouspear]

Not sure if anyone has linked to this yet but this blog post w/ videos analyzes 3 key parts of Irving's drive. Well worth a look for all us nuts.

http://tlorc.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/the-driving-ability-of-kyrie-irving/

[dukestheheat]

to the college game 'isn't' or 'hasn't' in my opinion. He is so very clearly above most players on the floor, right now, and this is obvious to anyone who watches Duke play. I get the impression that he can score on almost any possession if he wants to. He's just toying with most of his opponents. Versus Michigan State, Kyle was struggling on his shot and for awhile, at least, Nolan was making some very poor decisions on shot selection and passing, and it seemed that Kyrie just put Duke on this back and pulled it through.

Certainly, we're blessed with a great total team and one with firepower that goes deep, but with him in the lineup, Duke is going to be very hard to beat this year.

dth.

[ACCBBallFan]

Here's a new NBA scouting report on Kyrie.

End of article alludes to IF Kyrie chooses to enter draft he is the #1 PG chosen, and mentions alternative is pre-season POY next year.

http://www.nbadraftblog.com/2010-articles/december/scouting-report-kyrie-irving.html

[fgb]

to the college game 'isn't' or 'hasn't' in my opinion. He is so very clearly above most players on the floor, right now, and this is obvious to anyone who watches Duke play. I get the impression that he can score on almost any possession if he wants to. He's just toying with most of his opponents.

dth.

i don't think he's toying with anyone; i think that he realizes that long term it's more important that the entire team be involved, than it is that he put up crazy scoring numbers every night. it's a real credit to the kid: he's more concerned with his team than he is with his own draft status.

[Indoor66]

I would like to think that he realizes that his NBA status is enhanced by his showcasing all of his game, not just scoring. If he makes his team perform better he has a higher value on the next level because that will be his job there.

IMO, if Duke were to win it all this year and Kyrie were to be the spark, scoring stats would be a much lesser concern than his overall making his teammates better.

[Dukeface88]

This just in: Kyrie Irving is good at basketball. (http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120610aaa.html)

[davekay1971]

This just in: Kyrie Irving is good at basketball. (http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120610aaa.html)

The ACC may have to just throw Kyrie into the regular player of the week pool and rename the rookie honor the ACC Rookie-Not-Named-Kyrie-of-the-Week. Might even give Barnes a chance to win one ;)

[Indoor66]

The ACC may have to just throw Kyrie into the regular player of the week pool and rename the rookie honor the ACC Rookie-Not-Named-Kyrie-of-the-Week. Might even give Barnes a chance to win one ;)

Nah, that wouldn't help Barnes.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

It was suggested that Kyrie is adjusting to the college game.

May I suggest that Duke is adjusting to Kyrie's game? K said numerous times that we would play a different, more up tempo still this year - one that the current players haven't really engaged in while at Duke.

So maybe that's the adjustment... for players to learn to be ready and keep up with and benefit form Kyrie's speed, agility, passing savvy, etc...

[monkey]

This just in: Kyrie Irving is good at basketball. (http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120610aaa.html)

Not to quibble but is he ineligible for the Player of the Week honor and only eligible for Rookie of the Week? Seems to me he had a pretty good case.

[dukestheheat]

i don't think he's toying with anyone; i think that he realizes that long term it's more important that the entire team be involved, than it is that he put up crazy scoring numbers every night. it's a real credit to the kid: he's more concerned with his team than he is with his own draft status.

......YOU try guarding him! He can score at any time on anyone!

dth.:)

[Duvall]

The ACC may have to just throw Kyrie into the regular player of the week pool and rename the rookie honor the ACC Rookie-Not-Named-Kyrie-of-the-Week. Might even give Barnes a chance to win one ;)

Mild gripe - Irving *is* eligible to win Player of the Week awards, and frankly should have won this week.

[Newton_14]

Mild gripe - Irving *is* eligible to win Player of the Week awards, and frankly should have won this week.

Thanks for confirming that. We were discussing this in the RPOW thread and I honestly was not sure if this were the case or not. Since he is eligible for both, I too am miffed that he did not win both this week. No offense to anyone but no one else had a better week and certainly not against that level of competition. He smoked an All American in the Mich St game to boot.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

Mild gripe - Irving *is* eligible to win Player of the Week awards, and frankly should have won this week.


Thanks for confirming that. We were discussing this in the RPOW thread and I honestly was not sure if this were the case or not. Since he is eligible for both, I too am miffed that he did not win both this week. No offense to anyone but no one else had a better week and certainly not against that level of competition. He smoked an All American in the Mich St game to boot.

Espn gave him player of the week in passing. I will try to find it real quick.

OK well I found it but it is just Katz I guess who gives him POTW status.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5891484

[ACCBBallFan]

Draft Express disagrees with this thread.

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Kyrie Irving now holds #1 spot in our 2011 mock. What's he done to justify that & how does he stack up as a prospect? http://bit.ly/hHVDFF

Mason is #10, Nolan 23 and Kyle 24.

[Greg_Newton]

Draft Express disagrees with this thread.

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Kyrie Irving now holds #1 spot in our 2011 mock. What's he done to justify that & how does he stack up as a prospect? http://bit.ly/hHVDFF

Mason is #10, Nolan 23 and Kyle 24.

Off topic, but I fail to see how Mason is a lottery pick. He's coming along quite nicely as a young college big, but he has a lonnnng way to go before he could be competitive in the NBA.

(Plus I really want him back next year.)

[ACCBBallFan]

@dukebasketball Duke Basketball
Duke dominated Ken Pomeroy's first ACC offensive efficiency player rankings. Five Blue Devils sit in the top-22. http://ow.ly/3lpWF

[ACCBBallFan]

Off topic, but I fail to see how Mason is a lottery pick. He's coming along quite nicely as a young college big, but he has a lonnnng way to go before he could be competitive in the NBA.

(Plus I really want him back next year.)The infamous NBA grading on potential rather than kinetic.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

Off topic, but I fail to see how Mason is a lottery pick. He's coming along quite nicely as a young college big, but he has a lonnnng way to go before he could be competitive in the NBA.

(Plus I really want him back next year.)

Someone else already said it but, potential plays a huge role. Also the fact that he is freakishly atheltic helps. Kyle is not overly atheletic and his room for growth as a basketball player is not as high (NBA words not mine). Nolan is just suffering a little because NBA experts do not know if Nolan can handle being a pg at the next level and he is undersized for a typical 2 guard.

[Wander]

Is it too early to turn this into a National Player of the Year watch thread?

With Terrance Jones and Jared Sullinger having mediocre-to-bad games recently, I'd put the very early NPOY race as:

1 Kemba Walker
2 Kyrie Irving
3 Jajuan Johnson

Adding to the selfish reasons that roywhite listed earlier for wanting Kyrie to play, I'll add one more: I want him to rack up ridiculous stats against the next few easier opponents to help for national awards.