The Heat Debacle Becomes sort of not a Debacle

[taiw93]

With all of the talk swirling about the lack of chemistry on the Heat and the speculation that Coach Spoelstra is on the hot seat, I can't help but notice how much better this makes Coach K's coaching job with team USA look. Though many dismissed his coaching effort due to all of the talent he had on his roster, Coach K was able to get all of his superstar players to buy in to the team and accept lesser roles for the sake of winning - something that Spoelstra in Miami has been very much unable to do with similar talent. In hindsight, this Heat catastrophe makes K's work with the 2008 olympic team look even more impressive.

[Devilsfan]

The Heat should shut up and play basketball. It could be a lot worse, they could have Ol'Roy as a coach. Talk about a Chemistry Professor!

[geraldsneighbor]

The difference is this Heat team hasn't been fully healthy all year with Miller and Haslem out and they have two very big holes in their starting lineup. I think they'll turn it around soon. I just hope it's before Spo loses his job. I think he's a good guy and I hope he is able to take advantage of this opportunity and make it work. Keep in mind the Celtics a year ago started 21-21 and were 2 minutes from a championship. The Heat have time to figure it out, but it all starts with LeBron and Bosh buying in to what Spo is saying. Let's be honest, he doesn't have the same credibility of Coach K and that has a lot to do with it.

[AZLA]

I didn't realize this about Spoelstra, but he practically grew up in the Heat organization having started out there in 1995 as a video coordinator and worked his way up. That's impressive and unheard of these days. Spoelstra was coaching pretty well prior to Lebron's talents arriving in South Beach. So go figure.

I see your point about Coach K's ability to hold the respect of NBA players. I guarantee if Lebron was playing as bad and sulking the way he is lately, national team players like Kobe would be all over him. Personally, I think the respect Coach K commands comes from his natural leadership ability and his military background. It precedes basketball. If he didn't end up a basketball coach, he'd no doubt have been an accomplished leader no matter what endeavor he chose to pursue.

[BD80]

With all of the talk swirling about the lack of chemistry on the Heat and the speculation that Coach Spoelstra is on the hot seat, I can't help but notice how much better this makes Coach K's coaching job with team USA look. Though many dismissed his coaching effort due to all of the talent he had on his roster, Coach K was able to get all of his superstar players to buy in to the team and accept lesser roles for the sake of winning - something that Spoelstra in Miami has been very much unable to do with similar talent. In hindsight, this Heat catastrophe makes K's work with the 2008 olympic team look even more impressive.

Great Point!

I find it interesting that the talking heads aren't raising this comparison, particularly in light of LBJ's admission that he and DWade are having difficulty playing together, trying to work out their roles. LBJ and DWade each say they are "developing" a relationship with their "new" coach. Seems like Coach K had them comfortable in roles on the Olympic team in fewer than 20 games and had developed a relationship with the players.

[darthur]

The Heat should shut up and play basketball. It could be a lot worse, they could have Ol'Roy as a coach. Talk about a Chemistry Professor!

That's pretty much what they've done all season. It's been bad basketball at times, and LeBron's TV special last summer certainly invited criticism, but it's not the players who have been stirring up the controversy once the season started.

[left_hook_lacey]

With all of the talk swirling about the lack of chemistry on the Heat and the speculation that Coach Spoelstra is on the hot seat, I can't help but notice how much better this makes Coach K's coaching job with team USA look. Though many dismissed his coaching effort due to all of the talent he had on his roster, Coach K was able to get all of his superstar players to buy in to the team and accept lesser roles for the sake of winning - something that Spoelstra in Miami has been very much unable to do with similar talent. In hindsight, this Heat catastrophe makes K's work with the 2008 olympic team look even more impressive.

K did a terrific job in his international campaigns for team USA. But, there is one major difference between the Miami Heat and Coach K's USA teams. Coach K invited certain players to play for team USA, and then had his choice of those players to make the team. He chose those players based on character, work ethic, and the ability to be coached. If anything, Coach K should be commended on his ability to recognize players that can be coached in his systems and the ability to resist selecting a player based on talent alone.

So in all fairness, Spoelstra hasn't had that luxury. He has to coach what is given to him. He has a player in Lebron James that is probably the most gifted physically to ever play the game, but Lebron is a spoiled brat. So it's up to him (Spoelstra) to either try to figure our how to appease Lebron to have success or to keep his coaching integrity and not give in to Lebron's temper tantrums. I'm not sure which is the smartest thing to do at this point. I personally am a fan of the path coach has taken this far in sending a message to Lebron that he is not bigger than the team. But he risks being a laughing stock of the coaching world if he can't win with this group. A great coach would learn how to keep his integrity and still keep the team happy. I believe that Phil Jackson could win with this group, but Phil is a different type of coach.

With all that being said, their are a plethora of coaches in the league that would die for the trio Spoelstra has in James, Bosh, and Wade. But you can't compare the talent K had on his teams to this Heat team, because K hand picked that team and chose character and defense first, talent second.

[juise]

I find it amusing that the SportsCenter highlights of tonight's win made it sound like the Heat were firing on all cylinders tonight and righted the ship. They beat the Wizards, who are minus John Wall, at home by 11. Woo. Woo.

When the Wiz went to Boston, they lost by 29. That's how it's done.

[darthur]

With all that being said, their are a plethora of coaches in the league that would die for the trio Spoelstra has in James, Bosh, and Wade. But you can't compare the talent K had on his teams to this Heat team, because K hand picked that team and chose character and defense first, talent second.

Yeah he did. And, umm, he picked James, Bosh, and Wade. And last I heard, they are all very much invited back for 2012.

Are the Heat struggling right now? Definitely. And given the hype, "debacle" is a perfectly fair description. But uh, Lebron is still the very coachable, exceptional team player that led a mediocre supporting class to the finals and the best record in the NBA. When you take three people who have only ever led teams before, they do not always know how to play well together. It doesn't make them selfish or spoiled brats - it just means they need to adjust a whole new style of play. And it's not the players creating the drama right now. It's Phil Jackson speculating about Spoelstra's job security, and it's some random unnamed source in the team who is very much NOT a player (since one thing he couldn't comment on was what happened in the closed-doors players meeting).

Anyway, perhaps you forgot that K struggled too in his first year with the Redeem team? Or that a college team full of McDonalds All-Americans playing together for the first time can sometimes struggle against more experienced teams with 0 McDonalds All-Americans?

[gam7]

Are you Darrell Arthur?

[jammsb]

BD80,
Brian Cashman, the General Manager of the New York Yankees did very much what Spoelstra did with the Heat. He started working with the Yankees as a summer intern and gradually worked his way up through the organization to the point where he occupies one of the most revered positions in all of sports.

[dukeimac]

Wow, I think people are not keeping things in perspective here.

First, coaching Team USA, IMO, is easier than coaching any NBA's team. He coached players who "volunteered" to play for Team USA. No contracts were on the line. Yes he had the tough task of getting big egos to play together but that is a little easier to do when the players "volunteered" their time to play for Team USA. They already came into it with the idea it was for the "country" and not them.

In the NBA, it is all about the money baby, and money corrupts, i.e. see our congressmen and senators. LJ knows if he takes a back seat to anyone it may just affect his next contract, Wade knows if he takes a back seat to anyone it may just affect his next contract. And we already know that Bosh is being criticized so much for taking a back seat to to LJ and Wade that his next contract won't be as lucrative. And if they don't produce multiple championships it will be seen as a failure.

Lets face it, the Miami Heat has enough talent in those three guys that it really shouldn't matter what other NBA talent, and I said NBA talent not just some bums, they put on the court with them that they should win.

Those three guys know they are getting paid a lot of bucks to produce, not just one but, multiple championships and the pressure is getting to them. This is a no win situation for any of them. And they deserve it, they brought it on themselves.

There is a reason why it was Michael, Scottie and the rest. Why it was Koby, Gasol and the rest. Unfortunately, I believe Coach K realized it would be no fun to coach money egos so he hasn't taken any pro jobs. I believe he saw this coaching these guys on Team USA and he doesn't want to get any closer.

Sometimes when you are close to a situation you see things so much more clearly than the outsiders do. Coach K has gotten an up close look and is smart enough to know better.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Wow, I think people are not keeping things in perspective here.

First, coaching Team USA, IMO, is easier than coaching any NBA's team. He coached players who "volunteered" to play for Team USA. No contracts were on the line. Yes he had the tough task of getting big egos to play together but that is a little easier to do when the players "volunteered" their time to play for Team USA. They already came into it with the idea it was for the "country" and not them.

In the NBA, it is all about the money baby, and money corrupts, i.e. see our congressmen and senators. LJ knows if he takes a back seat to anyone it may just affect his next contract, Wade knows if he takes a back seat to anyone it may just affect his next contract. And we already know that Bosh is being criticized so much for taking a back seat to to LJ and Wade that his next contract won't be as lucrative. And if they don't produce multiple championships it will be seen as a failure.

Lets face it, the Miami Heat has enough talent in those three guys that it really shouldn't matter what other NBA talent, and I said NBA talent not just some bums, they put on the court with them that they should win.

Those three guys know they are getting paid a lot of bucks to produce, not just one but, multiple championships and the pressure is getting to them. This is a no win situation for any of them. And they deserve it, they brought it on themselves.

There is a reason why it was Michael, Scottie and the rest. Why it was Koby, Gasol and the rest. Unfortunately, I believe Coach K realized it would be no fun to coach money egos so he hasn't taken any pro jobs. I believe he saw this coaching these guys on Team USA and he doesn't want to get any closer.

Sometimes when you are close to a situation you see things so much more clearly than the outsiders do. Coach K has gotten an up close look and is smart enough to know better.

Fantastic post. I agree - Team USA and the Heat are extremely different coaching situations. Controlling egos when they aren't paid and only their reputation on the line (Team USA, college hoops) is incredibly different from an NBA team where the players have a lot more influence then the coaches. College bball is a coach's game; the NBA is a player's game.

[theAlaskanBear]

I think Spoelstra may just be too inexperienced. He is still developing into a good coach. I have questions about Pat Riley putting this team together as well. Shouldn't Riley know better than anyone that a championship team needs a good complement of players around stars? Look at teams like the Lakers and Boston -- it's not the superstars that separate them from the pack --- it's their benches. If you look at each of LBJ, Wade, and Bosh's skills -- there is a lot of similarity -- it will take time for them to adjust to different roles

Personally, I still think this this media storm is ridiculous. PATIENCE. These guys have played all of 20 games together....sometimes they looked great, sometimes not. I never had any illusions this team would win a championship yr 1. They are going to need time for on-court chemistry, and to build a decent team of roleplayers around them via draft & free agency. If anything I am even more impressed with LeBron. He is the only player who has brought it every game. Even with Wade and Bosh on the team, James looks like the best player on the court.

obtw, the Heat couldn't wait to give away Michael Beasley for free -- he is now averaging 20+/6trb (with good %s) a game for Minni.

[Billy Dat]

I think AlaskanBear and dukeimac are getting to the crucial points of this saga. FYI, the most recent BS Report, posted yesterday, features Bill Simmons and Dan Lebatard breaking down the whole situation for 40+ minutes.

LBJ and Wade play a very similar offensive game and the coaching staff, and James/Wade themselves, have not figured out how to maximize it yet. A common observation is that one dominates the ball while the other waits in the wings which seems like a waste. As many have said, this team didn't seem like it should have had problems scoring so they need to figure that out. But, overall, maybe all the parties involved didn't want to think about the concept of their skill sets being redundant. Many thought that James would embrace the "point forward" role and play Magic Johnson, setting up Wade and everyone else. It hasn't played out that way...yet.

gerladsneighbor also brings up an important point about injuries. Aside from Haslem and Miller (aka 2/5th of the starting line-up), Wade missed the whole preseason. They haven't been at full strength, and they are only 20 games in. Normally, a team would be given a chance to find itself but the incredible media storm from The Decision to the post Decision Miami Pep Rally needs to be fed. So, you get LBJ's crew leaking stuff to the media (e.g. Coach Spo calling out LBJ at practice), the "bumping incident" turns into "Remember the Maine!"...everything is magnified x100...it's got to be hard to find yourself with an audience of millions watching your every move.

In terms of the coach, Simmons and Lebatard talked about the fact that the players DO NOT want Pat Riley to take over. He is famous for grueling practices and the like, they don't want that. THEY want to run the show.

As for the rest of the league, they recognize the potential and want this giant to keep sleeping. That's why you get Phil Jackson stirring the pot, Jeff Van Gundy predicting 70 wins, etc. The more chaos that gets introduce into that cauldron, the more pressure builds, the more it will test the resolve of the participants, especially James and Wade. What about Bosh? He seems like the forgotten man, but he has quietly started to post decent numbers. There also seems to be a growing buzz that Wade is far from 100%, or that maybe he is starting to show signs of being past his peak.

Bottom line, the East is still the weaker conference. Even at .500, the Heat are a playoff team. Something tells me, they'll get better than .500 by the time April rolls around. By then, if they get some health luck, they'll have their full squad, 80 games under their belt, and some team will be unhappy that they have to face them in the playoffs. It's way too early to be writing off the Heat.

[Billy Dat]

And Wojarnowski piles on!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lebronspoelstra112910

[InSpades]

Not to take anything away from K's accomplishments with Team USA but it was a very different situation. Mostly I think because of control. If Lebron didn't do what K said then he could sit him (or not select him) and go find someone else to play who was also more talented than almost anyone they would play against. It's a lot easier to play "team" basketball when your teammates are all all-stars.

The situation for the Heat is very different... the coach is not in control. The players aren't going anywhere. If they really wanted to they could mutiny and undoubtedly be successful. It's a tough spot for Spoelstra.

This also proves what a team game that basketball is. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts (or in the case of Miami, a lot less than the sum of the parts). There's no doubt they are fantastically talented but it takes more than 3 guys to win a basketball game. I've always thought the Celtics were more likely to come out of the east. They are just as talented and they have been playing together for a lot longer.

[elvis14]

The whole Heat season is way too over analyzed (both on ESPN and now DBR). Can't we just enjoy the losses? After The Decision 1.0, I find myself really enjoying watching other teams win (you know all those other guys who hardly get covered at all if the Heat are playing). I think they'll figure it out and by the end of the season they'll be a contender along with the Boston Celtics and Orlando Redicks.

BTW, with all this publicity I've discovered that I really like Chris Bosh he seems like a really cool guy. I still can't get behind LeBron, I couldn't before The Decision either. Not sure why, might be my inclination to like the underdog but something about the guy just won't let me root for him. As for Wade, I like him too, when he's healthy, he's really fun to watch play.

[NSDukeFan]

Not to take anything away from K's accomplishments with Team USA but it was a very different situation. Mostly I think because of control. If Lebron didn't do what K said then he could sit him (or not select him) and go find someone else to play who was also more talented than almost anyone they would play against. It's a lot easier to play "team" basketball when your teammates are all all-stars.

The situation for the Heat is very different... the coach is not in control. The players aren't going anywhere. If they really wanted to they could mutiny and undoubtedly be successful. It's a tough spot for Spoelstra.

This also proves what a team game that basketball is. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts (or in the case of Miami, a lot less than the sum of the parts). There's no doubt they are fantastically talented but it takes more than 3 guys to win a basketball game. I've always thought the Celtics were more likely to come out of the east. They are just as talented and they have been playing together for a lot longer.

I find this discussion interesting including the discussion about comparisons between the difficulty of Spoelstra's job vs. K's job. I think some may be underestimating the job coach K did for the national team. Yes, coach K could sit LeBron and bring in someone almost as talented if he didn't like the way LeBron was acting, a luxury Spoelstra doesn't have. On the flip side, LeBron could have just decided not to play for coach K (as many players did with the national team before K and Colangelo changed the culture), which is not the case for the Heat, who are signing his paychecks.

This reminds me a bit of the situation at UNC compared to Duke, in that you never hear about a lack of energy or excitement about where the team is going at Duke or on the national team, but you do with some other teams. I think coach K deserves a lot of credit for that. He gets buy-in from his players better than other coaches, IMO.

I believe the Heat (and unfortunately, UNC as well) will end up better than they appear right now. I just think it is hard to go through the growing pains the Heat are going through being micro-analyzed all the time. Like UNC and Barnes, they brought it upon themselves, never imagining that they would not dominate immediately. Basketball is an interesting game, where teamwork and team matter even though a single player can make a big impact.

[hq2]

The Heat have a lot of fundamental issues, and coaching is only one of them.

1. Lebron and Wade's talents do not complement each other the way the Boston big three do. They are both one on one drivers and mediocre jump shooters who don't pass as well off the dribble as they should.

2. Bosh just isn't that good. He's a lousy defensive player and mediocre rebounder (too skinny), and his offense is sort of here and there, but not dominating. He put up a lot of stats at Toronto as their only viable inside option; on a better team that wouldn't have happened.

3. The supporting cast is basically bad, much worse than Boston's. They have no defense at center or point guard, and their complementary jump shooters have been non-factors (although Mike Miller's return will help). Their bench is lousy too.

4. Spoelstra isn't a bad coach, but he doesn't have the stature to discipline the stars and make them play a team offense. Riley could do it, but it would still be a lot of work to design the right kind of offense to make it work.

I never bought into the hype; I thought they would be a good Eastern conference team, but not dominant. I didn't think they'd be this bad either. After "The Decision" I'm enjoying seeing Lebron getting his comeuppance too.

[superdave]

I think AlaskanBear and dukeimac are getting to the crucial points of this saga. FYI, the most recent BS Report, posted yesterday, features Bill Simmons and Dan Lebatard breaking down the whole situation for 40+ minutes.

LBJ and Wade play a very similar offensive game and the coaching staff, and James/Wade themselves, have not figured out how to maximize it yet. A common observation is that one dominates the ball while the other waits in the wings which seems like a waste. As many have said, this team didn't seem like it should have had problems scoring so they need to figure that out. But, overall, maybe all the parties involved didn't want to think about the concept of their skill sets being redundant. Many thought that James would embrace the "point forward" role and play Magic Johnson, setting up Wade and everyone else. It hasn't played out that way...yet.

gerladsneighbor also brings up an important point about injuries. Aside from Haslem and Miller (aka 2/5th of the starting line-up), Wade missed the whole preseason. They haven't been at full strength, and they are only 20 games in. Normally, a team would be given a chance to find itself but the incredible media storm from The Decision to the post Decision Miami Pep Rally needs to be fed. So, you get LBJ's crew leaking stuff to the media (e.g. Coach Spo calling out LBJ at practice), the "bumping incident" turns into "Remember the Maine!"...everything is magnified x100...it's got to be hard to find yourself with an audience of millions watching your every move.

In terms of the coach, Simmons and Lebatard talked about the fact that the players DO NOT want Pat Riley to take over. He is famous for grueling practices and the like, they don't want that. THEY want to run the show.

As for the rest of the league, they recognize the potential and want this giant to keep sleeping. That's why you get Phil Jackson stirring the pot, Jeff Van Gundy predicting 70 wins, etc. The more chaos that gets introduce into that cauldron, the more pressure builds, the more it will test the resolve of the participants, especially James and Wade. What about Bosh? He seems like the forgotten man, but he has quietly started to post decent numbers. There also seems to be a growing buzz that Wade is far from 100%, or that maybe he is starting to show signs of being past his peak.

Bottom line, the East is still the weaker conference. Even at .500, the Heat are a playoff team. Something tells me, they'll get better than .500 by the time April rolls around. By then, if they get some health luck, they'll have their full squad, 80 games under their belt, and some team will be unhappy that they have to face them in the playoffs. It's way too early to be writing off the Heat.


Lebron and Dwyane are shooting something like 25% from 3 combined. Spoelstra should begin by politely inviting them to stop shooting 3s.

I think the point made above about those two watching each other take over, alternating possessions, is a great one. They are essentially good shooters off the dribble (not great) but great penetrators who get the FT line a lot. It's redundant and they both need the ball a lot.

It's too late to nitpick about the Bulls or Knicks, but these two guys have played basketball their whole lives, are 2 of the 5 best players in the world - they should sit down with the coach and figure it out like adults. Also, Chris Bosh is a great spot up shooter who is being utilized very poorly.

[Acymetric]

In terms of the coach, Simmons and Lebatard talked about the fact that the players DO NOT want Pat Riley to take over. He is famous for grueling practices and the like, they don't want that. THEY want to run the show.


This is exactly why it would probably be a good idea for Pat Riley to take over, or to at least give the keys to a coach who has the stature to stand up to these guys and make them play the way they need to play to be successful.

This sucks for Spolestra...the story of him moving up through the ranks is a great one, but Pat Riley built a team that will be difficult for anyone to coach, let alone a homegrown coach with no real star power to speak of. You need a big name coach if you want to control a team full of big names and big egos. It'll be sad if (when) they have to fire Spoelstra, and it'll be entirely Pat Riley's fault for putting him in that position.

[Indoor66]

This is exactly why it would probably be a good idea for Pat Riley to take over, or to at least give the keys to a coach who has the stature to stand up to these guys and make them play the way they need to play to be successful.

This sucks for Spolestra...the story of him moving up through the ranks is a great one, but Pat Riley built a team that will be difficult for anyone to coach, let alone a homegrown coach with no real star power to speak of. You need a big name coach if you want to control a team full of big names and big egos. It'll be sad if (when) they have to fire Spoelstra, and it'll be entirely Pat Riley's fault for putting him in that position.

Could you not get the same net effect if Riley laid down the law to the team - that Spolestra is in charge? Maybe Mickey Arison could stand next to Riley for effect.

[theAlaskanBear]

Lebron and Dwyane are shooting something like 25% from 3 combined. Spoelstra should begin by politely inviting them to stop shooting 3s.

I think the point made above about those two watching each other take over, alternating possessions, is a great one. They are essentially good shooters off the dribble (not great) but great penetrators who get the FT line a lot. It's redundant and they both need the ball a lot.

It's too late to nitpick about the Bulls or Knicks, but these two guys have played basketball their whole lives, are 2 of the 5 best players in the world - they should sit down with the coach and figure it out like adults. Also, Chris Bosh is a great spot up shooter who is being utilized very poorly.

But doesn't your last point suggest that Spoelstra's offense may be at fault here, and that he might be improperly utilizing James and Wade?

Concerning the 3pt shooting:

James is a 33% career shooter from distance...the only time he shot below .300 was his freshman campaign at .290...that was also the only season he failed to hit 100 3-pointers.

Now, WADE on the other hand...only hit .300+ 3 of his seasons (two just barely at .300 and .302). It is only since the 2008-2009 season that Wade shot more than 80 threes a year...and in 08 and 09 seasons he quadrupled that amount by chucking up 280 and 250 attempts. That coincided with Spoelstra's tenure as head coach. He his high 3pt made was 88 (of 278). So neither Van Gundy nor Riley allowed Wade to get more than 80 attempts per season. Perhaps Spoelstra is improperly utilizing Wade?

History tells us James will regress to his mean over the course of the season. So to tell James to stop shooting 3's is pure folly, but you have a VERY good case to be made about Dwayne Wade, who is on pace to shoot over 200 threes again. Maybe Wade is so defensive of his coach because he was allowed free hand in the offense over the last two years. Of course, I don't blame Spo -- the franchise is Wade and Riley, not Eric.

[Acymetric]

Could you not get the same net effect if Riley laid down the law to the team - that Spolestra is in charge? Maybe Mickey Arison could stand next to Riley for effect.

I don't think so, in fact doing that would probably decrease player respect for Spoelstra, making matters worse (needing someone else to come in and fight his battles would not be a good thing). What exactly would Riley do to the players if they didn't heed his demand that they listen to the coach? Bench them? Cut them? Highly unlikely. Fine them? Possibly, I'm not sure how much leeway teams have to fine players for things, but that starts getting into a whole other can of worms where the players turn on the team/management. They need a coach that will command their respect based simply on his reputation.

[superdave]

But doesn't your last point suggest that Spoelstra's offense may be at fault here, and that he might be improperly utilizing James and Wade?


Yes and no on Bosh. I think Bosh will get his once Wade and Lebron figure out how to play with each other (chicken/egg). But it does seem like an easy fix for Spoelstra to say "Kick it to Chris on the baseline or elbow as often as possible."

That Yahoo article slams James!

[BD80]

And Wojarnowski piles on!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lebronspoelstra112910

Much the same was said on ESPN's First Take today, that LeBron's posse had control in Cleveland, and it ruined the team. It was also said that Danny Ferry left because he could no longer stand the organization's coddling of LBJ.

To those defending HB in another thread for just being a kid, therefor his out-of-control ego is excusable, how long do we excuse LBJ's conduct? At what point did LBJ lose the same excuse?

I admit that I have never liked LBJ, primarily because of the posse. "The decision" really made me dislike him. His egomaniacal interviews since then have only made it worse. I feel bad for DWade, who seems to be being dragged down to LBJ's level.

I think Coach K is one of the few people that LBJ actually respects, but more, LBJ knew that he would only have to relinquish control to Coach K for a few games - and the payoff was clear and immediate. But it does show us that LBJ CAN do it. He just doesn't want to, he wants to win championships the EASY way and still be considered the Alpha Dog.

I am amused had how quickly his decisions have harmed his "brand."

[Indoor66]

I am amused had how quickly his decisions have harmed his "brand."

Yeah, it is funny how much those brands are tied up in What have you done for me lately?

[left_hook_lacey]

Yeah he did. And, umm, he picked James, Bosh, and Wade. And last I heard, they are all very much invited back for 2012.

Are the Heat struggling right now? Definitely. And given the hype, "debacle" is a perfectly fair description. But uh, Lebron is still the very coachable, exceptional team player that led a mediocre supporting class to the finals and the best record in the NBA. When you take three people who have only ever led teams before, they do not always know how to play well together. It doesn't make them selfish or spoiled brats - it just means they need to adjust a whole new style of play. And it's not the players creating the drama right now. It's Phil Jackson speculating about Spoelstra's job security, and it's some random unnamed source in the team who is very much NOT a player (since one thing he couldn't comment on was what happened in the closed-doors players meeting).

Anyway, perhaps you forgot that K struggled too in his first year with the Redeem team? Or that a college team full of McDonalds All-Americans playing together for the first time can sometimes struggle against more experienced teams with 0 McDonalds All-Americans?

Yes, but Wade, Bosh, and James volunteered to play first and it wasn't for an NBA contract and they knew there was a chance to be cut if they didn't buy-in to what coach K was doing. Just ask Rondo.

Spoelstra doesn't have the option to cut anyone, and this the NBA in which ego and money are King, not patriotism. I'm just saying the circumstances are different.

[Regenman]

Never could fathom why I'd want to root for a teen-ager that styles himself King James.


And it's not the players creating the drama right now.

Are you saying that LeBron can't control his posse? I'm sure he got his feelings hurt that Coach Spo yelled at him to be more serious in practice. (cue Iverson's "it's just practice....."). I'm in South Beach to party and win, not to practice or be coached....yeah, it's not the players creating the drama.

[weezie]

Yeah, what was that streaming along the espn ticker this morning? James does not want Riley to come out of the front office to coach? lol

[Billy Dat]

Here's an older Wojnarowski article that talks about how Team USA almost cut LBJ because of his immaturity and entitled air:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoElTeUz7rnHELkRnZOt8Cq8vLYF?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

Either LBJ is really this way, or Wojnarowski has a real axe to grind, or maybe a little of both.

[superdave]

Bosh for Nash, Lopez and Earl Clark.

I think some columnists heads would spin if they broke up the big 3.

[cspan37421]

Here's an older Wojnarowski article that talks about how Team USA almost cut LBJ because of his immaturity and entitled air:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoElTeUz7rnHELkRnZOt8Cq8vLYF?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

Either LBJ is really this way, or Wojnarowski has a real axe to grind, or maybe a little of both.

On Tony Kornheiser's radio show today, Sam Smith (I think of the Chicago Tribune) mentioned that LBJ's Cleveland teammates had to park away from the arena in an outdoor lot because LBJ and his posse commandeered all the indoor spots that were supposed to be allocated to the team's players. He was just throwing out one example, but it floored Tony (and me). If it's true, IMO "he is really that way." And at this point, it's hard for me to imagine him changing. Riley: be careful what you wish for, you just might get it! Boy, he had to have known.

Smith also said that he didn't think Spoelstra is going anywhere. I think he cited his contract (4-5 years?), that Riley has his back and knows that coaching isn't the problem, and frankly would rather have him dealing with trying to get LBJ to grow up than to have to do it himself. Ferry was smart to leave Cleveland, but I wonder if, coming home from work, he always felt like he needed shower, but could never get fully clean.

Anyway, it's quite a drama - maybe it has a chance for an Emmy!

[Billy Dat]

By the way, I got a chuckle at the "similar threads" offered up below...



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[Starter]

Wojnarowski has been doing this for a long time (http://a.espncdn.com/nba/columns/wojnarowski_adrian/1544776.html). I see nothing that leads me to believe it's not pretty much on the money, though his righteous indignation seems a bit excessive at times.

[taiw93]

I think the point that NBA coaches have much less control than college coaches (and, for that matter, national team coaches) is an interesting and valid one. However, I do think that Phil Jackson provides an interesting counterpoint. MJ and Kobe are both considered no less ego-centric than LeBron, but Jackson has been able to earn their respect and build championship teams around them.
It helps, I think, that Jackson has had quiet secondary players content to play the role of "Robin," such as Pippen and Gasol (who has had far fewer issues with Kobe than the louder-mouthed Shaq).

[taiw93]

Coach K weighing in on this exact topic: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5868045

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I'm from Miami and have been a Heat fan since their inception. So, I've probably been following this stuff closer than most folks. Which is to say, my opinion matters, and everyone else's is invalid. Just kidding...

But:

1. This Wojarnowski guy has been banging this same drum at least since The Decision, and if you Google him, it looks like it started some time before that. He HATES Lebron with a passion that is kind of bizarre. I enjoy reading his stories. He creates a very juicy and entertaining narrative. And there's probably some truth buried in there. But these narratives rarely quote sources and yet appear to give you the inside scoop that you can't find anywhere else. I find it hard to believe that he's the only reporter with access to these sources. I find it much easier to believe that he's not as interested in distinguishing fact from rumor as most other reporters in the league.

2. Bosh is not at all the problem. He got off to a slow start, but he's actually settled in nicely, scoring 20+ points in 7 of the last 8 games, shooting at a high clip, and putting up improved rebounding numbers.

3. The biggest problem has been D Wade. And I like D Wade, but that's just the truth. Ever since the Heat won the championship back in 2006, Wade has shown a tendency towards laziness from time to time, but it's just reached a different level this year. He has been taking off plays on offense, and he's just been dogging it on defense. I was at the game against the 76ers last Friday, and I watched him fail to close out on his man (Meeks, whoever the hell that is) on three possessions in a row as the guy knocked down three 3 pointers. I said to my dad, "Wade is just napping out there on defense." His Roland Rating on 82games.com is a measly +1.2 (which has him ranked behind James Jones, Carlos Arroyo, and Zyndrunas Ilgauskas). It's been a rough season so far for the one guy who should have had the easiest transition.

4. These guys will pick up steam as the season rolls along. They'll pick up the intensity when the games matter more. Mike Miller should make a huge difference as a knock down shooter and a glue guy. Hopefully, Haslem will be back by the end of the year. And even though this team is missing some key parts, they have a great core of talent intact, and they'll be able to round out their team over the next offseason or two. Just because everything is not in place this year doesn't mean this a failed experiment. This year's team will get better, and next year's team will be better still.

[Deslok]

I think the point that NBA coaches have much less control than college coaches (and, for that matter, national team coaches) is an interesting and valid one. However, I do think that Phil Jackson provides an interesting counterpoint. MJ and Kobe are both considered no less ego-centric than LeBron, but Jackson has been able to earn their respect and build championship teams around them.
It helps, I think, that Jackson has had quiet secondary players content to play the role of "Robin," such as Pippen and Gasol (who has had far fewer issues with Kobe than the louder-mouthed Shaq).

But it also helped that Kobe didn't come into the league as "the franchise." Shaq was the man when Kobe came to L.A. And Kobe's first couple of years weren't All-Star worthy, so he had a few years where he needed to listen to whomever the coach was or he could take his seat on the bench/move along to another team. Yes he was recognized as very talented early on, but the Lakers weren't beholden to him for success. The Cavs were pretty much entirely in James's hands from day 1 with the franchise, which couldn't have helped him develop a more coachable persona.

[theAlaskanBear]

But it also helped that Kobe didn't come into the league as "the franchise." Shaq was the man when Kobe came to L.A. And Kobe's first couple of years weren't All-Star worthy, so he had a few years where he needed to listen to whomever the coach was or he could take his seat on the bench/move along to another team. Yes he was recognized as very talented early on, but the Lakers weren't beholden to him for success. The Cavs were pretty much entirely in James's hands from day 1 with the franchise, which couldn't have helped him develop a more coachable persona.

He came in as a 19yr old, and was the best player in the league at 22. If he DIDN'T have an ego, I'de be concerned for his sanity. It's safe to say his ego is on par with Kobe, Jordan. You don't become the best player without a healthy dose.

[darthur]

Wojnarowski has been doing this for a long time (http://a.espncdn.com/nba/columns/wojnarowski_adrian/1544776.html). I see nothing that leads me to believe it's not pretty much on the money, though his righteous indignation seems a bit excessive at times.

How is it that Wojnarowski has all this inside information about exactly what happened... and yet 4 days before the Decision, he was talking up the chance of LeBron staying in Cleveland?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lebronfreeagency070410

LeBron was almost left off the Olympic team because "everyone" thought he was a cancer, and yet not one real source can be named for any of this? And Wojnarowski just happened to break this story 2 weeks after the decision, after keeping it in wraps for 2 years before-hand. Sure thing there, buddy...

[Spret42]

4. These guys will pick up steam as the season rolls along. They'll pick up the intensity when the games matter more. Mike Miller should make a huge difference as a knock down shooter and a glue guy. Hopefully, Haslem will be back by the end of the year. And even though this team is missing some key parts, they have a great core of talent intact, and they'll be able to round out their team over the next offseason or two. Just because everything is not in place this year doesn't mean this a failed experiment. This year's team will get better, and next year's team will be better still.

Generally agree. But they still have to figure a way to rebound the ball. The Heat are Dunkin Donuts right now. They have a big time hole in the middle. If you are an NBA fan and you watch closely you know how hard they play defense and rebound. They are going to need to figure a way to protect the rim, alter shots and get rebounds. Not sure how they will figure to do that.

[theAlaskanBear]

OMG. Lakers lost 3 straight! Kobe and Gasol are having chemistry issues! They will never play together with those egos! Phil Jackson is doing a terrible job!
;)

Just wanted to introduce a little bit a levity into the thread, seeing as the Lakers have matched the Heat's longest losing streak this year and Miami now only trails by 3 games.

It's November, folks!

[Spret42]

OMG. Lakers lost 3 straight! Kobe and Gasol are having chemistry issues! They will never play together with those egos! Phil Jackson is doing a terrible job!
;)

Just wanted to introduce a little bit a levity into the thread, seeing as the Lakers have matched the Heat's longest losing streak this year and Miami now only trails by 3 games.

It's November, folks!

The Lakers are still a proven commodity though. When they lose three you can simply chalk it up to it being November.

I am not sure it isn't reasonable to spend some time looking at the Heat and wonder if maybe this thing might not be all it was cracked up to be. I don't think anyone can declare it a failure yet. But looking at it to determine if there were serious flaws in the design makes some sense.

[BobbyFan]

We all knew going in that LeBron and Wade don't complement one another in the half court offense. No matter who the coach or what the strategy, the end result will be less than the sum of parts. This will never be Shaq-Kobe or Magic-Kareem. It would help to maximize their fast break opportunities where they do feed off one another, but that would need to be balanced with their defensive rebounding.

Their overlapping talent, however, is no excuse for the fact that they have looked pathetic playing off the ball, perhaps related to the fact that they haven't done much of it before. They also take too many plays off on defense, particularly considering they don't have the offensive burden they've had in previous years.

The odds may be building against their chances to win the title this year, especially with Haslem's injury, but this isn't a one year plan and they will be serious title contenders for the next several years. That said, LeBron and Wade need to decide how badly they want to win, because they have to be willing to adapt their games (and I don't mean just watch the other guy make plays), stop taking plays off, and take more of a leadership role if they want the dynasty talk to become reality.

[Acymetric]

That said, LeBron and Wade need to decide how badly they want to win, because they have to be willing to adapt their games (and I don't mean just watch the other guy make plays), stop taking plays off, and take more of a leadership role if they want the dynasty talk to become reality.

Heck, who cares about winning those guys made themselves rich doing this (took smaller contract, blah blah blah endorsements almost certainly went up more than enough to compensate for that).

Maybe that's their attitude now. Got all the money they need for however many years (forget the contract length...6 with a team option at 3 maybe?). Maybe they decide they're just going to have fun, enjoy being incredibly wealthy, and win as much as putting in minimal effort between parties permits, which could still be a healthy amount.

[theAlaskanBear]

We all knew going in that LeBron and Wade don't complement one another in the half court offense. No matter who the coach or what the strategy, the end result will be less than the sum of parts. This will never be Shaq-Kobe or Magic-Kareem. It would help to maximize their fast break opportunities where they do feed off one another, but that would need to be balanced with their defensive rebounding.

Their overlapping talent, however, is no excuse for the fact that they have looked pathetic playing off the ball, perhaps related to the fact that they haven't done much of it before. They also take too many plays off on defense, particularly considering they don't have the offensive burden they've had in previous years.

The odds may be building against their chances to win the title this year, especially with Haslem's injury, but this isn't a one year plan and they will be serious title contenders for the next several years. That said, LeBron and Wade need to decide how badly they want to win, because they have to be willing to adapt their games (and I don't mean just watch the other guy make plays), stop taking plays off, and take more of a leadership role if they want the dynasty talk to become reality.

One of the things I think about, re: rebounding, is telling James to crash the defensive boards whenever a shot goes up. Then he can bring up/push the ball like he did in Cleveland or try to outlet to a streaking Wade. Giving James the opportunity to snag 10 trb a game would have great appeal, I think.

The other thing: over the next couple of years the Heat will be able to augment their roster with draft picks and free agents.

I agree with nearly everything you have said.

[FireOgilvie]

I saw a stat on TV that said when LeBron was on the court without Wade, the Heat did significantly better than when Wade was on the court without LeBron. When both were on the court at the same time, they fared the worst. Interesting note: LeBron is the 2nd best SF on the Heat according to plus/minus (behind James Jones).

Chris Bosh: +124
James Jones: +115
LeBron James: +101
Zydrunas Ilgauskas: +57
Dwyane Wade: +53

According to http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22010&split=9&team=Heat

Also, these numbers turn out differently when looking at plus/minus per minute. Wade is 8th on the team; LeBron is 6th, Bosh is 2nd, and James Jones is 1st.

[superdave]

I saw a stat on TV that said when LeBron was on the court without Wade, the Heat did significantly better than when Wade was on the court without LeBron. When both were on the court at the same time, they fared the worst. Interesting note: LeBron is the 2nd best SF on the Heat according to plus/minus (behind James Jones).

Chris Bosh: +124
James Jones: +115
LeBron James: +101
Zydrunas Ilgauskas: +57
Dwyane Wade: +53

According to http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22010&split=9&team=Heat

Also, these numbers turn out differently when looking at plus/minus per minute. Wade is 8th on the team; LeBron is 6th, Bosh is 2nd, and James Jones is 1st.

Dwyane has been injured all season and missed pretty much the whole pre-season.

[FireOgilvie]

Dwyane has been injured all season and missed pretty much the whole pre-season.

Yes, but the Heat still do worse with both LeBron and Wade in at the same time than just LeBron or just Wade. That's the point. It's obvious that there are issues when they play together, which many people have touched on (overlapping skill sets, etc.).

And James Jones has a really high plus/minus.

[A-Tex Devil]

I haven't read this whole thread, but jeebus, we are less than 20 games into the season. The Heat will make the playoffs. At that point, they can beat anyone. If they win the title does any of this matter? So they aren't winning 70 games or probably even 60 games. Can we really judge them just yet? Calling this a debacle is about the most premature thing I've ever heard. I am not saying it won't be, but talk to me in June.

[elvis14]

I haven't read this whole thread, but jeebus, we are less than 20 games into the season. The Heat will make the playoffs. At that point, they can beat anyone. If they win the title does any of this matter? So they aren't winning 70 games or probably even 60 games. Can we really judge them just yet? Calling this a debacle is about the most premature thing I've ever heard. I am not saying it won't be, but talk to me in June.

You have a point but you have to remember the spectacle they made of themselves, "The Decision 1.0", they were publicly handed the crown, many people stated that the all time wins per season record was in jeopardy, etc. Debacle can be a bit subjective and can be effected by expectations. In the grand scheme of things, they are fine and will most likely be very good by the end of the season. But if you compare what they have done compared to expectations you get a debacle. Add LBJ's whining about the coach while you're at it. Me, I'm just enjoying each loss because I didn't care for the hype. I'd love to see JJ and the Magic or Carlos and the Bulls come out of the East.

[theAlaskanBear]

But doesn't your last point suggest that Spoelstra's offense may be at fault here, and that he might be improperly utilizing James and Wade?

Concerning the 3pt shooting:

James is a 33% career shooter from distance...the only time he shot below .300 was his freshman campaign at .290...that was also the only season he failed to hit 100 3-pointers.

Now, WADE on the other hand...only hit .300+ 3 of his seasons (two just barely at .300 and .302). It is only since the 2008-2009 season that Wade shot more than 80 threes a year...and in 08 and 09 seasons he quadrupled that amount by chucking up 280 and 250 attempts. That coincided with Spoelstra's tenure as head coach. He his high 3pt made was 88 (of 278). So neither Van Gundy nor Riley allowed Wade to get more than 80 attempts per season. Perhaps Spoelstra is improperly utilizing Wade?

History tells us James will regress to his mean over the course of the season. So to tell James to stop shooting 3's is pure folly, but you have a VERY good case to be made about Dwayne Wade, who is on pace to shoot over 200 threes again. Maybe Wade is so defensive of his coach because he was allowed free hand in the offense over the last two years. Of course, I don't blame Spo -- the franchise is Wade and Riley, not Eric.

To toot my own horn:

I am watching NBA Coast to Coast on ESPN2 and they were talking about the Heat. Well one of their analysts made the point that in the 9-game winning streak Wade has cut his 3-pt attempts down to 7% of his total FGA, whereas before the streak it was 19% of his total.

So I looked back and did some more number crunching. In Wade's first 5 seasons under Gundy and Riley he only 6% of his total FGA were threes. The last two seasons under Coach Spo he had been averaging 16% of his FGA as threes.

If you subtract his 3-pts made and attempted for the current season from his overall field goal percentage: viola 53% -- close to his % on the current win streak. This data tells us:

A) Wade was playing away from who he is as a player earlier in the season, and that contributed to some terrible games.
B) This trend began when Spoelstra became the coach, but was exacerbated this season when Wade 1) regressed to his career 3pt% and 2) he lost his aggressiveness in the presence of James and Bosh leading to bad shots and bad plays.
C) The Heat players are establishing better chemistry and finding their roles!
D) for continued success, Wade should probably only average about 1 three per game, on par with the pace of his first 5 seasons as a player.