Greatest Coach on the Planet?

[COYS]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5846363

I'm not usually a thread starter, but I saw this video on ESPN on First and Ten and thought it might warrant some fun discussion. On the show the talking heads, including Skip Bayless, argue that the title of Best Coach on the Planet comes down to Coach K and Bill Belichick. Even if you assume that they limit their discussion to the top men's sports in America (sorry Pat Summitt), I couldn't believe that they left off the Zen Master who is currently pursuing his 4th(!!!!!) three-peat. Greg Popovich with the Spurs has got to be in the discussion, as well, even though he's second to Jackson in the NBA. If we go international, which I know ESPN is not likely to do on a show like this, you absolutely must consider Sir Alex Ferguson of Manchester United fame for the top spot. Like Coach K and Jackson, he's been successful for a long time with many different versions of his teams. He actually might get the nod from me as best coach on the planet, but you couldn't go wrong with any of those three.

Personally, I wouldn't put Belichick in the discussion, quite yet. With a Superbowl win in 2008, perhaps. But K, Ferguson, and Jackson have won multiple titles with different players at the core of those teams. They also have been winning for far longer than Belichick. I actually thought it was odd that Belichick was chosen as the man opposite K in the discussion. I admit to not liking the Patriots, but I also respect Belichick's ability as a coach. I just don't think it's time to proclaim him the best in the world, yet.

[gam7]

Tony Robbins?

[PADukeMom]

PATERNO. 401 wins in 46 seasons at Penn State 2 National Championships, should have been several more but that is what happens without a playoff system.

[hurleyfor3]

Wow, I didn't realize beating Kansas State in November was this big a deal.

[DevilHorns]

Bill Belichick is a cheater. This is not an opinion. He is a cheater. He was fined $500000 by the NFL in 2007 for taping other teams' practices. His team was fined $250000. They lost several draft picks. He should not be in consideration for the greatest current coach simply because of this.

IMHO, if athletes have asterisks next to their stats for steroids, then Belichick should have asterisks next to his coaching stats (and perhaps the New England Patriots should have asterisks next to their super bowl wins that they won under his watch).

[DukeFanSince1990]

Wow, I didn't realize beating Kansas State in November was this big a deal.

:) ha ha

[moonpie23]

Bill Belichick is a cheater. This is not an opinion. He is a cheater. He was fined $500000 by the NFL in 2007 for taping other teams' practices. His team was fined $250000. They lost several draft picks. He should not be in consideration for the greatest current coach simply because of this.




actually, he was fined for filming the other team's signals from the sidelines...

however, he IS a cheater, should not even be coaching, and the super bowl wins should be vacated until roger MILHOUSE goodell brings forth the REAL evidence (that he says he had to destroy) and clears belicheat from the charges...


can't be discussed anywhere for best anything unless it's "quite arguably the greatest sports scandal and subsequent cover up in the history of sports"

[gam7]

Looks like the Coach K wins table on the main page assumes that we will play four ACC tournament games. If we have a top 4 seed, we will play a maximum of 3 games in the ACC tourney and it would push Coach K's pursuit of Coach Knight into the NCAA tournament.

[NYC Duke Fan]

Geno Auriemma has to be right up there with Coach K and Bill Belichek

[sagegrouse]

Geno Auriemma has to be right up there with Coach K and Bill Belichek

I doubt that even Geno's colleagues in women's hoops would nominate him for the best coach in their game, much less the planet. Sometimes it comes down to what kind of person the coach is.

But it's early in the morning, so you get a pass.

sagegrouse

[Spret42]

I absolutely LOATHE the Patriots but there is no way around it; Belichick is the only coach in sports on Krzyzewski's level. No one else is in their universe. Read David Halberstam's book on Belichick. It won't take more than an hour. It is so eye opening.

You have to also look at what he did coordinating defenses for Parcells. The most interesting stat I saw lately was Joe Montana's playoff record. He lost only 5 playoff games in his entire career. Three of them were to the New York Giants whose defense was coached by Bill Belichick. Twice they knocked him out of the game. Yes, he had Lawrence Taylor but every great coach has great players. He has been a part of seven Super Bowls as a head coach and coordinator and won five of them. His defense won Super Bowl XXV on it's own by hammering the daylights out of Bills receivers, and only a special teams play and a guy catching the ball on his helmet kept him from being perfect. The Cleveland debacle wasn't his fault. (He went to the playoffs lets not forget.) That was ALL Art Modell. Belichick has almost never been a part of a bad or mediocre football team in his entire coaching career.

[Indoor66]

I absolutely LOATHE the Patriots but there is no way around it; Belichick is the only coach in sports on Krzyzewski's level. No one else is in their universe. Read David Halberstam's book on Belichick. It won't take more than an hour. It is so eye opening.

You have to also look at what he did coordinating defenses for Parcells. The most interesting stat I saw lately was Joe Montana's playoff record. He lost only 5 playoff games in his entire career. Three of them were to the New York Giants whose defense was coached by Bill Belichick. Twice they knocked him out of the game. Yes, he had Lawrence Taylor but every great coach has great players. He has been a part of seven Super Bowls as a head coach and coordinator and won five of them. His defense won Super Bowl XXV on it's own by hammering the daylights out of Bills receivers, and only a special teams play and a guy catching the ball on his helmet kept him from being perfect. The Cleveland debacle wasn't his fault. (He went to the playoffs lets not forget.) That was ALL Art Modell. Belichick has almost never been a part of a bad or mediocre football team in his entire coaching career.

Except that Belichick cheats and K does not.

[Spret42]

Except that Belichick cheats and K does not.

I didn't get too worked up about that whole thing, and again I actively root against the Patriots. What they did was going on around the league for years and years. They just became the scapegoat for it.

[sagegrouse]

I absolutely LOATHE the Patriots but there is no way around it; Belichick is the only coach in sports on Krzyzewski's level. No one else is in their universe. Read David Halberstam's book on Belichick. It won't take more than an hour. It is so eye opening.

.

What happened in Cleveland? Didn't he get fired by Art Modell? I don't remember any of the details.

sagegrouse

[Spret42]

What happened in Cleveland? Didn't he get fired by Art Modell? I don't remember any of the details.

sagegrouse

He basically screwed up his first chance at being a head coach and he admits it.. His same close to the vest, say nothing, reveal nothing, monotone style made him a ton of enemies, especially in the press. He was fired after finishing 5-11 in 1996 and Modell announced he was moving the team. That record is the reason he was 36-44 overall. Considering the toxic environment within that organization and the city at the time, you can't put ALL of that failure on Belichick. I remember knowing more than a few Marines at the time who were from Cleveland and they HATED Modell. LeBron has it easy compared to how much they hated Modell.

The story was the Modell refused him the ability to make a ton of personnel moves he wanted to make. Specifically Modell stopped him from moving away from Bernie Kosar as the quarterback of that team, trading him away for draft picks etc. He demoted Kosar anyway and the feeling was that he humiliated the towns hero.

He had a very specific plan for building that team, it was the same plan he had for building the Patriots when he took that job. He just did a terrible job implementing it in Cleveland and Modell was probably the wrong owner for him. The difference with the Patriots has been that Bob Kraft is and has always been, as Bob Ryan said, "in awe of Bill Belichick" and lets him to whatever he pleases with the team. He also recognized his mistakes in certain things and did a great job of adjusting. Remind you of anyone? Coach K wasn't tearing it up in those first few years, then he nailed a recruiting class and took off.

I mostly gleamed all of this from press reports and Halberstams book.

[Spret42]

oops...double post

[phaedrus]

Scott Bowman.

[NSDukeFan]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5846363

I'm not usually a thread starter, but I saw this video on ESPN on First and Ten and thought it might warrant some fun discussion. On the show the talking heads, including Skip Bayless, argue that the title of Best Coach on the Planet comes down to Coach K and Bill Belichick. Even if you assume that they limit their discussion to the top men's sports in America (sorry Pat Summitt), I couldn't believe that they left off the Zen Master who is currently pursuing his 4th(!!!!!) three-peat. Greg Popovich with the Spurs has got to be in the discussion, as well, even though he's second to Jackson in the NBA. If we go international, which I know ESPN is not likely to do on a show like this, you absolutely must consider Sir Alex Ferguson of Manchester United fame for the top spot. Like Coach K and Jackson, he's been successful for a long time with many different versions of his teams. He actually might get the nod from me as best coach on the planet, but you couldn't go wrong with any of those three.

Personally, I wouldn't put Belichick in the discussion, quite yet. With a Superbowl win in 2008, perhaps. But K, Ferguson, and Jackson have won multiple titles with different players at the core of those teams. They also have been winning for far longer than Belichick. I actually thought it was odd that Belichick was chosen as the man opposite K in the discussion. I admit to not liking the Patriots, but I also respect Belichick's ability as a coach. I just don't think it's time to proclaim him the best in the world, yet.

I found it interesting in the argument for Belichick was that it was much harder to maintain success in the NFL because of the unbalanced schedule and draft pick order. I agree that scheduling can make it more challenging, but I believe it has been discussed by Peter King that the NFL draft can actually impede bottom dwelling teams from improving because of the salary that has to be paid to unproven players near the top of the draft.

[moonpie23]

I didn't get too worked up about that whole thing, and again I actively root against the Patriots. What they did was going on around the league for years and years. They just became the scapegoat for it.

so, you're sayin that you're "ok" with the cheating.......cause "everyone does it"..


well, "everyone" didn't get the largest fine EVER to a coach or player for cheating....and let's not forget, he was punished for what we KNOW he did. Since Goodell destroyed the "evidence" there's no telling how deep it ran......it musta been pretty deep.....goodell had to destroy it...

until K is fined and punished like that, i'd have to say belicheat is nowhere near coach k...

[Indoor66]

so, you're sayin that you're "ok" with the cheating.......cause "everyone does it"..


well, "everyone" didn't get the largest fine EVER to a coach or player for cheating....and let's not forget, he was punished for what we KNOW he did. Since Goodell destroyed the "evidence" there's no telling how deep it ran......it musta been pretty deep.....goodell had to destroy it...

until K is fined and punished like that, i'd have to say belicheat is nowhere near coach k...

Belichek also has not had the sustained excellence displayed by K.

[NYC Duke Fan]

How come noone has mentioned Phil Jackson?

[dukeimac]

Much like this basketball season, there is only one and then the rest.

In Coach K I trust, and then there are the rest...