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CameronBornAndBred
11-24-2010, 07:51 AM
Here is a nice article looking a little bit at the MSU game but more at where this Duke team is right now, which boils down to the best in the country, by a long shot. I love this quote...

OK, so maybe Kansas State wouldn't win, but how could this be anything but a great game? Forty minutes and a 14-point margin of victory later, here's how: Duke is the best team in the country.
Actually, let's be more specific: Duke is the best team in the country by a lot.
Asked if he agreed, Kansas State coach Frank Martin didn't hesitate.
"They knocked the living piss out of us," Martin said. "If there's a team better than they are, I don't want to play them."
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/18690/new-dukies-could-be-another-classic-team
He isn't brave enough to say we'll go undefeated (I'm not either, we'll lose to someone this year) but Brennan does agree that we are the ones to beat in April. Between the players we have, and the coaching that we have, the recipe is there for this group to be a team we will remember for a very long time.

weezie
11-24-2010, 07:54 AM
"They knocked the living piss out of us," Martin said. "If there's a team better than they are, I don't want to play them."

I think we have another front page revolving quote for DBR. That's a keeper! :D

Lord Ash
11-24-2010, 08:25 AM
I am very impressed by three things;

First, the body language. Now, it is easier to stay happy in wins, but the body language of this team from 1-13 and including the coaching staff is really excellent. They really seem to celebrate each other and enjoy each other.

Second, I like that so far this team has only had one game that I can recall where there was any time in which it did not score. Over the years we have all seen teams where they will go four or five minutes without hitting a basket, and that can make close games very tough. This team simply does not seem to be hitting that wall; we seem to consistently score throughout the game, which makes it so very tough for anyone to get a scoring spurt on us. This consistency is wonderful to see, and will remain very important.

Three... stall ball. Yep, I said it:) Marquette game notwithstanding, this team seems like it really will be able to take the air out of the ball with 4 minutes to go and keep the relative score the same. I am not sure I've felt this comfortable with a team doing this in the recent past.

Great start to the season!

OZZIE4DUKE
11-24-2010, 08:40 AM
Second, I like that so far this team has only had one game that I can recall where there was any time in which it did not score. Over the years we have all seen teams where they will go four or five minutes without hitting a basket, and that can make close games very tough. This team simply does not seem to be hitting that wall; we seem to consistently score throughout the game, which makes it so very tough for anyone to get a scoring spurt on us. This consistency is wonderful to see, and will remain very important.
When you've got two players as quick as Kyrie and Nolan who can finish at the basket as well as they can, it's tough to go too long without scoring. Plus, we've got Kyle. And Dre'. And Seth. And the Plumlees.


Three... stall ball.
I went ballistic when we went to it so early (was it 11 minutes left, or 8 left on the clock? I forget) and promptly lost momentum and got sloppy and lost the ball on consecutive possessions and the lead dropped from 17 to 11. Got a 17 point lead? Build it to 27! Then take the air out of the ball with 4 minutes left. Fortunately Dre' made a quick 3 to make it 14 and we righted the ship quickly. Grrr.

My opinion of the prevent offense and prevent defense is well known, both in basketball and football. All it does is prevent victory for the team that uses it.

DoubleDuke Dad
11-24-2010, 09:03 AM
"They knocked the living piss out of us," Martin said. "If there's a team better than they are, I don't want to play them."


Now I know why the players were slipping on the floor. :)

Duke76
11-24-2010, 09:07 AM
From the same article another classic line,


"Coach K has this down to a science, people," Pullen said. "And it's a great science, man."

MCFinARL
11-24-2010, 09:29 AM
My opinion of the prevent offense and prevent defense is well known, both in basketball and football. All it does is prevent victory for the team that uses it.

This. Prevent defense in football is some sort of mass delusion. As for stall ball, I'm still recovering from the many games in the JJ era when we let comfortable leads disintegrate this way. The last four minutes, okay--but when you start stalling too early, you risk taking your own offense out of the game. They can get cold and miss the shots when the shot clock winds down.

COYS
11-24-2010, 09:38 AM
Three... stall ball. Yep, I said it:) Marquette game notwithstanding, this team seems like it really will be able to take the air out of the ball with 4 minutes to go and keep the relative score the same. I am not sure I've felt this comfortable with a team doing this in the recent past.

Great start to the season!

Ash, I generally agree with you on everything. But last year's team was THE BEST half court team we've had at Duke over the past 10 years. Nolan, Jon, and Kyle ran stall ball expertly, in large part because it wasn't really all that different from our usual, patient half court offense that was the hallmark of last year's squad. Zoubs, Lance, and Miles (who saw the majority of court time when we ran the spread) are, collectively, a better group of screeners than Mason, Ryan, and Miles currently are, which helped our guards time their drives into the defense a little better than we have this season. Combine that with our hard nosed rebounding and we had many times last year where one possession took 1:30 off the clock and ended with a bucket after we collected two offensive boards.

I think this team will be able to run the stall effectively, possibly more effectively than last year, as the season wears on. We've got tons of options whether it's Kyrie breaking ankles, Nolan attacking the hoop, Kyle working off a screen, or a drive and kick to one of our many shooters. As Kyrie improves his decision making, he'll start to see which one of these options is the best at any given moment. As that happens, I think the spread will become even more efficient.

Indoor66
11-24-2010, 09:52 AM
Ash, I generally agree with you on everything. But last year's team was THE BEST half court team we've had at Duke over the past 10 years. Nolan, Jon, and Kyle ran stall ball expertly, in large part because it wasn't really all that different from our usual, patient half court offense that was the hallmark of last year's squad. Zoubs, Lance, and Miles (who saw the majority of court time when we ran the spread) are, collectively, a better group of screeners than Mason, Ryan, and Miles currently are, which helped our guards time their drives into the defense a little better than we have this season. Combine that with our hard nosed rebounding and we had many times last year where one possession took 1:30 off the clock and ended with a bucket after we collected two offensive boards.

I think this team will be able to run the stall effectively, possibly more effectively than last year, as the season wears on. We've got tons of options whether it's Kyrie breaking ankles, Nolan attacking the hoop, Kyle working off a screen, or a drive and kick to one of our many shooters. As Kyrie improves his decision making, he'll start to see which one of these options is the best at any given moment. As that happens, I think the spread will become even more efficient.

I agree with you. I can understand using the tactic in these games for two reasons: practice in game situations and, why risk injury on the court when players are slipping when making sharp cuts. When the game is in hand, practice and prevent injury.

Lord Ash
11-24-2010, 10:28 AM
Ash, I generally agree with you on everything. But last year's team was THE BEST half court team we've had at Duke over the past 10 years. Nolan, Jon, and Kyle ran stall ball expertly, in large part because it wasn't really all that different from our usual, patient half court offense that was the hallmark of last year's squad.

Excellent point about stall ball last not being THAT different than our usual methodical offense last year; I would have given you a positive comment but I gave you one recently:)

oldnavy
11-24-2010, 10:51 AM
When you've got two players as quick as Kyrie and Nolan who can finish at the basket as well as they can, it's tough to go too long without scoring. Plus, we've got Kyle. And Dre'. And Seth. And the Plumlees.


I went ballistic when we went to it so early (was it 11 minutes left, or 8 left on the clock? I forget) and promptly lost momentum and got sloppy and lost the ball on consecutive possessions and the lead dropped from 17 to 11. Got a 17 point lead? Build it to 27! Then take the air out of the ball with 4 minutes left. Fortunately Dre' made a quick 3 to make it 14 and we righted the ship quickly. Grrr.

My opinion of the prevent offense and prevent defense is well known, both in basketball and football. All it does is prevent victory for the team that uses it.

I would like to see KI finish a little more consistantly, but I cannot and will not complain about what the kid is doing... he is fabulous!

-jk
11-24-2010, 11:12 AM
I'll toss a splash of cold water: We're an amazingly talented team, but we're a remarkably young team. Three recruited upperclassmen - albeit two that most coaches would kill for. A far cry from last season, starting 3 seniors and 2 juniors down the stretch.

We'll make mistakes, and we'll lose a few games because of them. We won't rebound anything like last season (and folks will whine). We'll have lots of turnovers (and folks will whine). But we'll force many more turnovers and we'll wear teams out.

We're off to a wonderful start and I'm really looking forward to the rest of the ride!

-jk

Zeb
11-24-2010, 11:17 AM
While the merits of stall ball may feel like a dead horse to many, it is an interesting topic with this team. Heading into the season, K talked about increasing tempo and the number of possessions. I assume the thinking on that is that we have depth so with a fast pace and pressure defense we can tire teams out; the higher number of possessions makes it more likely that our superior offensive (and defensive) efficiency will yield a positive point differential. But stall ball goes against that. It decreases possessions and allows the other team that may not be as deep as us to take a breather. On the other hand, it obviously takes time off the clock, and when you have a lead you want to give the other team as few chances as possible to score.

I think the ultimate question on stall ball this season is how efficient we are when we run it. It seems obvious to me that giving yourself only 10 seconds to score makes it harder to have the same success as when you have 35 seconds to work with, so the question is how big a hit we take on our points per stall possession compared to the advatage gained by taking time off the clock. I don't have the patience to do it, but I would love to see someone chart our stall ball possessions.

gus
11-24-2010, 11:28 AM
"Marquette game notwithstanding"

I thought Duke won that game.

The Marquette is a perfect example of why "stall ball" is such an effective strategy. Despite the fact that Duke went cold, and was clanging free throws... Duke was able to win. Decreasing the number of possessions dramatically decreased Marquette's odds of coming back. Had the team not limited Marquette's possessions, there is a ver real chance the game could be lost (though, unlikely, to be honest. This was more of a practice opportunity). A properly timed and executed stall makes it very difficult for an opponent to win, even if you don't score, and impossible to win if you do score.

hq2
11-24-2010, 11:28 AM
We'll make mistakes, and we'll lose a few games because of them. We won't rebound anything like last season (and folks will whine). We'll have lots of turnovers (and folks will whine). But we'll force many more turnovers and we'll wear teams out.



I'm not sure of that. Looking at this team and the schedule, I'd say if they get by Michigan State they have a good chance to run the table. Now that Mason has shown up, this is clearly looking to be one of the two or three best teams in Duke history. They have no obvious weaknesses, except possibly defense at the 3 position, and even that isn't bad. It's going to be very hard for anyone to beat them anywhere.

sagegrouse
11-24-2010, 11:31 AM
Overkill... in basketball, it's when your All-American has trouble getting shots because #1 and #2 are slicing and dicing the opponents into turkey hash and #30 and #20 are raining threes from everywhere.

Classic is a good term, but -- please -- one game at a time.

sagegrouse

uh_no
11-24-2010, 11:32 AM
Three... stall ball. Yep, I said it:) Marquette game notwithstanding, this team seems like it really will be able to take the air out of the ball with 4 minutes to go and keep the relative score the same. I am not sure I've felt this comfortable with a team doing this in the recent past.


I would argue that last year our stall ball was perhaps one of the best I've ever seen....from 7-10 minutes out it started....it was just so similar to our regular offense and jon was such a brilliant point that we could most assuredly run the clock for 30 seconds and still be almost guaranteed to score points on the possesion...the with the offensive boards and the phenomenal FT shooting....i can't picture how this year's team could possibly be better at stall ball than last year

gus
11-24-2010, 11:42 AM
While the merits of stall ball may feel like a dead horse to many, it is an interesting topic with this team. Heading into the season, K talked about increasing tempo and the number of possessions. I assume the thinking on that is that we have depth so with a fast pace and pressure defense we can tire teams out; the higher number of possessions makes it more likely that our superior offensive (and defensive) efficiency will yield a positive point differential. But stall ball goes against that. It decreases possessions and allows the other team that may not be as deep as us to take a breather. On the other hand, it obviously takes time off the clock, and when you have a lead you want to give the other team as few chances as possible to score.

When the score is tied, close, or duke is behind- more possessions are better. When duke is ahead... then math comes into play. If a team needs 5 possessions, and you can limit them to 4... they cannot win.

You're correct that the stall tactic will have a negative impact on the point differential, but a single digit win counts the same as a double digit win. The strategy is about risk management. We're trading a lower return for less volatility. It makes winning a lower point differential more likely, but also makes winning more likely. And that's really what matters, not the score.

Lord Ash
11-24-2010, 12:13 PM
"Marquette game notwithstanding"

I thought Duke won that game.


The only reason I said that was because we missed a HOST of front ends in that game, so we did not salt them away as efficiently we would have liked. I expect our stall-ball to be more effective later on.

Also -jk, in reference to what you said... I thought it was amusing that after the game Pullen actually had a comment about Duke having so many upper classmen. Am I correct in saying we have only 3?

COYS
11-24-2010, 12:32 PM
The only reason I said that was because we missed a HOST of front ends in that game, so we did not salt them away as efficiently we would have liked. I expect our stall-ball to be more effective later on.

Also -jk, in reference to what you said... I thought it was amusing that after the game Pullen actually had a comment about Duke having so many upper classmen. Am I correct in saying we have only 3?

To be fair to Pullen, it certainly LOOKED like there were two of Kyle, Nolan, and Miles on the court on the defensive end . . . and probably three of Kyrie. He felt like he was playing against 15 guys.

MChambers
11-24-2010, 12:34 PM
I'm not sure of that. Looking at this team and the schedule, I'd say if they get by Michigan State they have a good chance to run the table. Now that Mason has shown up, this is clearly looking to be one of the two or three best teams in Duke history. They have no obvious weaknesses, except possibly defense at the 3 position, and even that isn't bad. It's going to be very hard for anyone to beat them anywhere.
Although I agree that as things stand now Duke will be the clear favorite in every game in the regular season, there are a lot of games left. Thus, even those Duke is the clear favorite in every game, and even if we beat MSU next week, we've still got Butler on a neutral floor and away games at FSU, State, VT, and UNC. And of course most of the ACC tourney and NCAA games will be tough. So it's only a good chance to run the table in a relative sense. (Pomeroy gives Duke about a 7% chance of going undefeated, and I think that's only the regular season.)

COYS
11-24-2010, 12:40 PM
(Pomeroy gives Duke about a 7% chance of going undefeated, and I think that's only the regular season.)

It definitely is only the regular season. Add the ACC tourney in plus the NCAA tourney and the percentage plummets. Injuries and luck play such a huge role in whether or not a team can go undefeated, too. We've got to win a few games around exam time, when our freshman star will have tons of stress to manage in addition to being the most scrutinized figure for the number 1 team in the nation. Travel and quick turnarounds will make a difference. MChambers is totally right. The chance that the team completes the regular season is extremely low, much less survives two post season tournaments unscathed when the stakes and the competition will be upgraded.

PADukeMom
11-24-2010, 12:51 PM
It's November people...way WAY too soon to be annointing a team as a classic & going perfect for the season. Talk of a team being a classic can only be mentioned AFTER the nest are cut down. You are tempting the WOOF GODS & I am not about to do that.

MChambers
11-24-2010, 01:04 PM
It's November people...way WAY too soon to be annointing a team as a classic & going perfect for the season. Talk of a team being a classic can only be mentioned AFTER the nest are cut down. You are tempting the WOOF GODS & I am not about to do that.

I left out the game at Maryland, too, so add that one in just to emphasize how long and tough a season it will be.

Kedsy
11-24-2010, 01:43 PM
They have no obvious weaknesses, except possibly defense at the 3 position, and even that isn't bad.

You're talking about Kyle? I would argue he might be our best defender, so I'm not sure I understand your point?


As for stall ball, I'm still recovering from the many games in the JJ era when we let comfortable leads disintegrate this way.

We didn't lose too many games during the "JJ era," did we? His senior year, for example, we lost only 4 games and in exactly none of them did we blow a big lead by using stall ball. So I don't entirely understand your complaint unless you are lamenting the fact that we won by fewer points than we should have?

Indoor66
11-24-2010, 02:18 PM
Although I agree that as things stand now Duke will be the clear favorite in every game in the regular season, there are a lot of games left. Thus, even those Duke is the clear favorite in every game, and even if we beat MSU next week, we've still got Butler on a neutral floor and away games at FSU, State, VT, and UNC. And of course most of the ACC tourney and NCAA games will be tough. So it's only a good chance to run the table in a relative sense. (Pomeroy gives Duke about a 7% chance of going undefeated, and I think that's only the regular season.)

If we play the games one at a time the odds are much better - and I think that is the way K and the team plan to play them.

Mabdul Doobakus
11-24-2010, 02:33 PM
Well, I agree with people who say that it's too early in the season to start boasting too loudly about this team. Ultimately, whatever this team is able to accomplish over the course of this season, it won't amount to much--and certainly not "classic" or "legendary" status--if we don't win the championship.

But, on the other hand, people are excited about this team, and rightfully so. They are just so deep, and talented, and versatile. The only weakness is that we might be missing a couple of inches down low, and I look forward to seeing how we handle a team with a lot of size. But, offensively, this isn't the team we're used to seeing the past 5+ years. We're not limited to two or three offensive options, where if two of our big scorers have an off game, we're in huge trouble. We've got four major offensive weapons in the backcourt alone, and that's not counting our POY candidate, and Mason, who I think we're still learning what he's capable of. And this team can defend as well as any Duke team we've seen in recent years.

This team's ceiling is sky high. Going undefeated is tough and unlikely--I don't think anyone would argue otherwise--but this team has the talent and the coach to potentially make a run at it. And the other thing about them is they're likable. The nation of Duke haters is going to have a much tougher time hating this team. I've already sense this among the few Duke haters I count as friends, and if you follow the twitter feed, there's a lot of "I usually hate Duke, but..." sentiment out there. It's a different team, and a very fun team to watch. So, you take all of that, and, yes, this team, at this early stage, is looking like a classic, but obviously that status has to be earned, and this season's only just begun.

Rudy
11-24-2010, 03:02 PM
But, on the other hand, people are excited about this team, and rightfully so. They are just so deep, and talented, and versatile.
And they work hard on defense, not just offense. And they are unselfish players. And no one pouts when they get a bad call or boot the ball or a teammate muffs something. They're all, "next play." What's not to like?

Even as Mason muffed a feed from Nolan I thought, well he's just not used to getting the feed like that. Last year, the three scorers would often go ahead and take the driving shot even if they were guarded and the post or rolling pick man looked open. The big three seemed to have lost confidence in the scoring or catching abilities of the post guys. It obviously worked out fine. But Mason obviously needs to be ready for the drop off pass since he may be getting it more than he did last year.

Last year if a couple of the scorers had an off night, the wins were still there but were fought with hard defense down to the final buzzer. So far this team has had scoring lulls, didn't go lax on defense and the scoring picked up after less than a quarter's worth. This team has 6 potent scorers to fill 4 spots on the floor at any one time, 5 spots when they go small and put Kyle at #4. No wonder they're exciting to watch. And they're just going to get better (barring injury, knock wood).

tylervinyard
11-24-2010, 03:20 PM
When the score is tied, close, or duke is behind- more possessions are better. When duke is ahead... then math comes into play. If a team needs 5 possessions, and you can limit them to 4... they cannot win.

You're correct that the stall tactic will have a negative impact on the point differential, but a single digit win counts the same as a double digit win. The strategy is about risk management. We're trading a lower return for less volatility. It makes winning a lower point differential more likely, but also makes winning more likely. And that's really what matters, not the score.

Yep, same reason Zoubek missed the free throw on purpose. Risk management. There's always a chance of getting burned, but statistically that decision was sound.

The only thing I dislike and I disliked about stall ball from the beginning was the potential to remove our momentum and take the wind out of our sails, but we've certainly gotten better and better at it over the years to the point of it being utterly demoralizing when we score at the end of the shot clock after eating up so much time.

Oriole Way
11-24-2010, 03:20 PM
As I mentioned in the post game thread, my only minor disagreement with one of his points is when he calls Nolan Smith the #2 pure point guard in the nation behind Kyrie Irving.

First of all, Nolan Smith is not a pure point guard. Second of all, even if he were a true point, Nolan would not be the second best in the nation. Nolan is certainly one of the best guards in the nation, if not the best overall shooting/combo guard, but he's just not a pure PG.

DukeFan83
11-24-2010, 03:31 PM
Between the players we have, and the coaching that we have, the recipe is there for this group to be a team we will remember for a very long time.

Bam, I say! Duke is looking excellent this year, and even our competitors are willing to admit it. I won't say undefeated either, but I will be very excited. We're going all the way, baby!

Indoor66
11-24-2010, 04:05 PM
I do not understand the feeling that we are not big enough down low. We have three legitimate 6'10"-6'11" who are not skinny or weak. The we have a 6'8" and 6'7" players who are not skinny or weak. How many team can you name that are bigger than this?

Our next player is 6'4" and solid. Then we go to the lilliputs who are around 6'2" and have strong athletic skills.

I just don't understand the "we are too small" talk.

Vincetaylor
11-24-2010, 04:26 PM
You're talking about Kyle? I would argue he might be our best defender, so I'm not sure I understand your point?



We didn't lose too many games during the "JJ era," did we? His senior year, for example, we lost only 4 games and in exactly none of them did we blow a big lead by using stall ball. So I don't entirely understand your complaint unless you are lamenting the fact that we won by fewer points than we should have?

I agree. Defense at the 3 isn't a problem at all. It's at the 4 and 5. That's my only real concern for this team and that is why Kelly, Hairston, and the Plumlees need to step it up on D.

Mabdul Doobakus
11-24-2010, 07:36 PM
I do not understand the feeling that we are not big enough down low. We have three legitimate 6'10"-6'11" who are not skinny or weak. The we have a 6'8" and 6'7" players who are not skinny or weak. How many team can you name that are bigger than this?

Our next player is 6'4" and solid. Then we go to the lilliputs who are around 6'2" and have strong athletic skills.

I just don't understand the "we are too small" talk.

Well, I guess it's not so much inches as it is body size. We have tall guys who will probably be able to hold their own against almost anybody, but at some point they're going to meet a player or two who is a good 30-40 lbs heavier (e.g., Jared Suillinger), and it remains to be seen how that will go. We didn't have that problem last year because of Zoubek.

Are we TOO small? No, clearly not. But some team may find a way to exploit a size advantage down low. Most won't even have that option.

OldPhiKap
11-24-2010, 08:11 PM
Well, I guess it's not so much inches as it is body size. We have tall guys who will probably be able to hold their own against almost anybody, but at some point they're going to meet a player or two who is a good 30-40 lbs heavier (e.g., Jared Suillinger), and it remains to be seen how that will go. We didn't have that problem last year because of Zoubek.

Are we TOO small? No, clearly not. But some team may find a way to exploit a size advantage down low. Most won't even have that option.

I'll start with the last point first -- most teams can't try to exploit this anyway. And, for those who can, the question is whether they can get the ball inside with the point pressure we apply as is. Not to mention the quick doubles and sags as the entry pass comes.

There are certainly teams out there that can beat us, and I suspect will. I don't think K will be unprepared for it, though. But, if someone can do it, I'll tip my cap to them.


(And, Zoubs wasn't the huge force we remember until late in the season, when he started against Maryland with about three weeks left in the seasion +/- IIRC)

Greg_Newton
11-24-2010, 10:15 PM
Well, I guess it's not so much inches as it is body size. We have tall guys who will probably be able to hold their own against almost anybody, but at some point they're going to meet a player or two who is a good 30-40 lbs heavier (e.g., Jared Suillinger), and it remains to be seen how that will go. We didn't have that problem last year because of Zoubek.

Are we TOO small? No, clearly not. But some team may find a way to exploit a size advantage down low. Most won't even have that option.

I think you make a good point - big, burly, experienced front lines could give us trouble. It's not like Mason and Kelly are very thick. However, it's worth noting that last night's opposing center was 6-11 260. Length and athleticism can make up for a lot of pounds - as long as they are strong enough to keep big guys from barreling all the way to the rim, they can make finishing difficult even if they get decent position.


It obviously worked out fine. But Mason obviously needs to be ready for the drop off pass since he may be getting it more than he did last year.

JON... is that you??? :p

turnandburn55
11-24-2010, 10:34 PM
Anyone remember how they felt on the evening of December 10th, 2005?

Long season ahead of us, folks. A lot of things can happen.

MCFinARL
11-25-2010, 03:54 PM
We didn't lose too many games during the "JJ era," did we? His senior year, for example, we lost only 4 games and in exactly none of them did we blow a big lead by using stall ball. So I don't entirely understand your complaint unless you are lamenting the fact that we won by fewer points than we should have?

Mostly I guess my complaint is just that the games I remember made me too nervous. ;)
Perhaps in retrospect it seems like there were more of them than there really were....

DukeFan83
12-01-2010, 11:24 AM
I guess I agree that a lot of things can happen. It's a long season, and we need to keep our wits about us. However, I doubt a "big, burley" team is going to give us THAT much trouble. Skinny can also mean quick, and this isn't football we're talking about here. I'd rather have someone that can move any day.

Rudy
12-01-2010, 02:16 PM
Suppose your leading scorer puts up 41 points, as a team you shoot 51.7% from the field (including 47% from 3 pt. land) and 75% from the foul line, you only lose the rebounding war 29-26, and you have one less turnover than the other team. You’d think you’d win, right? Especially if you’re 17-0 for the season so far.

Think again. Georgetown 87 - Duke 84, January 21, 2006. I was there. John Thompson III had his guys perfect the back door pass to exploit Duke’s aggressive deny defense. Georgetown shot 61.5% from the field.

http://www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/012106aaa.html


Georgetown connected on 61.5 percent of its field goals (32-of-52), 42.9 percent of its three-pointers (6-of-14) and 70.8 percent of its free throws (17-of-24). The Hoyas controlled the boards, grabbing 29 to Duke's 26, and forced the Blue Devils into 15 turnovers, while committing 16. Georgetown also handed out a season-high 24 assists.

Duke was led by Redick, who scored 41 points, connecting on 12-of-24 shots from the field and 6-of-11 from outside the arc. Paulus added 14 points and four assists and Dockery added 10 points. The Blue Devils shot 51.7 percent from the field (30-of-58), 47.4 percent from three-point land (9-of-19) and 75.0 percent from the free throw line (15-of-20).

Wander
12-01-2010, 02:31 PM
Suppose your leading scorer puts up 41 points, as a team you shoot 51.7% from the field (including 47% from 3 pt. land) and 75% from the foul line, you only lose the rebounding war 29-26, and you have one less turnover than the other team. You’d think you’d win, right? Especially if you’re 17-0 for the season so far.


Suppose that (admittedly, in hindsight) you only have two players worthy of starting on an elite team and one of them had the worst game of his career. But I get your point.

If we make it past January 12th (road game at FSU) with no losses, we can start openly thinking about the possibility of an undefeated season. I understand why there's hesitancy about discussing it, but contrary to what you hear everywhere, it's not impossible (Illinois and Memphis have come reasonably close in the past five seasons).

uh_no
12-01-2010, 02:47 PM
Mostly I guess my complaint is just that the games I remember made me too nervous. ;)
Perhaps in retrospect it seems like there were more of them than there really were....

we won the national championship last year by playing stall ball for 40 minutes a game

roywhite
12-01-2010, 02:54 PM
we won the national championship last year by playing stall ball for 40 minutes a game

Is that accurate?

It was a somewhat slower style last year, but the team averaged 77 points per game.

Jderf
12-01-2010, 07:49 PM
And no one pouts when they get a bad call or boot the ball or a teammate muffs something.

I was thinking about this while watching a play during, I think, the K-State game, when Kryie got called for a ticky-tacky offensive foul. He didn't slump or anything. Instead, he just got back on defense and laughed it off with this strange grin on his face, as if to say, "Bring it on. Because I'm just gonna take the ball back and get another chance." Gotta love that mentality.

MCFinARL
12-01-2010, 09:04 PM
Is that accurate?

It was a somewhat slower style last year, but the team averaged 77 points per game.

yeah, I'm nervous to comment again here, because I'm clearly dealing with people who know a lot about the game and will call me out if I'm off, but I think there is a difference between stall ball and half court offense--So I would agree with roywhite here.