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View Full Version : What is Ryan Kelly doing wrong?



cptnflash
11-24-2010, 01:42 AM
To my eyes, he looks great. He plays good D, takes charges, communicates, rotates well, is full of positive energy, and stretches the defense on O, occasionally knocking down a 3-pointer. And yet, despite the fact that he starts, he seems to be buried in the rotation. Tonight he only played 10 minutes, less than Miles even. What am I missing? Is he doing something wrong? Please share if you understand why he's playing so sparingly.

uh_no
11-24-2010, 01:45 AM
To my eyes, he looks great. He plays good D, takes charges, communicates, rotates well, is full of positive energy, and stretches the defense on O, occasionally knocking down a 3-pointer. And yet, despite the fact that he starts, he seems to be buried in the rotation. Tonight he only played 10 minutes, less than Miles even. What am I missing? Is he doing something wrong? Please share if you understand why he's playing so sparingly.

he had 3 fouls early i believe....mason's been playing awesomely, andre's been playing awesome, there are only 40 minutes in a game.......

loran16
11-24-2010, 01:48 AM
To my eyes, he looks great. He plays good D, takes charges, communicates, rotates well, is full of positive energy, and stretches the defense on O, occasionally knocking down a 3-pointer. And yet, despite the fact that he starts, he seems to be buried in the rotation. Tonight he only played 10 minutes, less than Miles even. What am I missing? Is he doing something wrong? Please share if you understand why he's playing so sparingly.

There are less minutes available, because we like to go small. Also, he's still being beat a decent amount on D at times (Kelly was too much for him).

10 minutes is not bad playing time for him; it puts him in the regular rotation, which he wasn't last year.

ajgoodfella7
11-24-2010, 01:49 AM
To my eyes, he looks great. He plays good D, takes charges, communicates, rotates well, is full of positive energy, and stretches the defense on O, occasionally knocking down a 3-pointer. And yet, despite the fact that he starts, he seems to be buried in the rotation. Tonight he only played 10 minutes, less than Miles even. What am I missing? Is he doing something wrong? Please share if you understand why he's playing so sparingly.

He is playing just fine. In fact fine enough to start every single game this year. He will get his minutes but it just depends on what Coach K is looking for at that specific moment. I think he needed to give Miles more PT tonight because he is stronger down low and really the way the game was going, the only chance K-State had was to beat us down low. But Ryan will get his share of minutes this year and we will need them.

ajgoodfella7
11-24-2010, 01:55 AM
So far this year Mason is averaging 22 minutes, Miles 16 minutes, and Ryan about 15 minutes. The averages will certainly go up, but I think if you break down the percentages, that is a good rotation for our big men.

strawbs
11-24-2010, 01:57 AM
i agree that he is playing great, and i think he will really contribute a lot this year. My guess to why he's not getting a ton of burn besides the obvious (we have a plethora of good players and there are only so many minutes to go around) is that K is sticking with lineups that are producing. In the marquette game it was clear that mason was playing very well and i think K was going to ride that horse. This was especially clear after he took the time out and got on the team hard. There were very few subs after that point. He went with the guys who were playing the best and in the Marquette game it was a smaller lineup and Miles as the big. Tonight Ryan picked up some fouls so that cut into his minutes and on top of that Miles played pretty well, so it was hard to get ryan back into the game. Im going to assume that Mason gets the most consistent minutes out of the 3 bigs (I didnt forget about josh im just excluding him at the moment) and that either ryan and miles could see big minutes on any given night depending on who is playing well that night. I love Ryan he's going to be big for us, no need to worry about something being wrong

coot
11-24-2010, 01:59 AM
Kelly is doing his job very well. Scoring, defense, hustle, taking charges...and I'm happy for him that Coach K has noticed his work and he has been a starter. With a team this talented and versatile, Kelly will be sharing minutes with a lot of guys depending on the matchups. He is going to get to play enough to keep getting better and better. He is being set up for a great career at Duke. Let's be patient.

Namtilal
11-24-2010, 02:05 AM
As Miles and Ryan get more experience, we will transition to playing two bigs together more often. Right now, the season is young and they are both rounding into shape nicely.

I think we have all been very impressed by Ryan, but his big-game experience is just beginning.

Lord Ash
11-24-2010, 06:55 AM
He is playing well, and the coaching staff would likely agree. However, last night he picked up three fouls very quickly, Mason was playing very well (again) and Miles had maybe his best night of the year... so where else would Ryan get minutes?

flyingdutchdevil
11-24-2010, 07:06 AM
He is playing well, and the coaching staff would likely agree. However, last night he picked up three fouls very quickly, Mason was playing very well (again) and Miles had maybe his best night of the year... so where else would Ryan get minutes?

At the 1 or 2? Isn't that where we have available minutes? :rolleyes:

stickdog
11-24-2010, 07:16 AM
He was getting tagged with mysterious phantom fouls and Coach K wanted to save him some aggravation?

dukeimac
11-24-2010, 07:27 AM
Questions like this puzzle me, apparently people don't know Coach K very well.

1. Coach forces teams to play to Duke and not Duke to them.
2. He looks for miss matches and uses them to Duke's advantage.
3. You have to work hard at practice.

Something is telling me that Kelly is working hard at practice, that is why he is starting and Miles isn't.

If the other team is thin at guards Coach plays a small line up to wear out their guards. Plus Duke is very strong with their guards. If the other team is small Coach plays big. This usually gets them the lead and then he can really play to Duke's strength, and that is guard play.

Mason is playing lights out so he is going to get his time but Miles and Kelly MUST work hard in practice and then play smart in games. Coach has the luxury of sitting non- or poor performers. Kelly and Miles must play smart and stay out of foul trouble.

So far, Duke's best advantage is going small. Kyle is a great fit for small and tall line ups so he won't leave the court much. That doesn't leave much room for the bigs.

One issue I have seen with Miles and Kelly is that they rely on help out defense and to often the help isn't there and they get burned for a basket or a rebound. They have to be smarter and know where every one is at on the court to know if there is help out defense around.

weezie
11-24-2010, 07:51 AM
He is playing just fine. In fact fine enough to start every single game this year. He will get his minutes but it just depends on what Coach K is looking for at that specific moment.... Ryan will get his share of minutes this year and we will need them.

Hear, hear. He's coming along very nicely and he's so much stronger this year. I think he's expanding his game right before our eyes. The refereeing last night was a tantric puzzle, just what the h-e-sticks were those refs trying to do to that game? Total loss of control and respect if you ask me. Truly one of the worst called games I've ever seen.

Troublemaker
11-24-2010, 07:56 AM
This is a little bit like worrying about Joey Bishop because he doesn't get as much stage time as Sinatra, Martin, and Davis Jr. "What is Joey Bishop doing wrong?" Nothing! He's in the freaking Rat Pack! Life is good for him.

Same thing here. Ryan Kelly starts and plays 13 minutes a game for the #1 team in the country coming off a national championship. Life is good for him.

Indoor66
11-24-2010, 08:53 AM
This is a little bit like worrying about Joey Bishop because he doesn't get as much stage time as Sinatra, Martin, and Davis Jr. "What is Joey Bishop doing wrong?" Nothing! He's in the freaking Rat Pack! Life is good for him.

Same thing here. Ryan Kelly starts and plays 13 minutes a game for the #1 team in the country coming off a national championship. Life is good for him.

And he has a ring in his jewelry box at home....

Devilsfan
11-24-2010, 09:03 AM
Ryan has come along fast. He has a new body and is a GREAT role player. I think it is quite an honor to be selected by Coach K to be a stater on such an unbelievably talented team. He passes well, see the court and frankly gets Miles ready to play when he (Miles) comes off the bench. Crunch time is another matter. Dre is quicker, playing good D and is a form shooter who can take it to the hoop if it's open. Our team seems to get a boost when Dre and Seth are on the court. Heck its working so if it aint broken what's there to fix? This team is fun to watch. Sounds like a heel fan just trying to stir things up and hurt the chemistry.

miramar
11-24-2010, 09:06 AM
Ryan and Andre look much better than last year and will improve further. Curry, who is now part of the same class, will also make his mark. There is so much talent on this club that quality players may not get as many minutes as they would normally.

Remember Scheyer's freshman year, when the upper classmen consisted of DeMarcus and Dave McClure? Niche change.

MChambers
11-24-2010, 09:07 AM
Questions like this puzzle me, apparently people don't know Coach K very well.

1. Coach forces teams to play to Duke and not Duke to them.
2. He looks for miss matches and uses them to Duke's advantage.
3. You have to work hard at practice.

Something is telling me that Kelly is working hard at practice, that is why he is starting and Miles isn't.

Maybe, but Coach K expressly said it was to try a different look, so that Mason was down low to start, and Ryan could play outside.

COYS
11-24-2010, 09:14 AM
Kelly will have a breakout game this year, I am certain of it. He's playing great so far and will continue to get better. He will have a break out game this year, I'm sure of it. He'll get a few open threes and maybe a score off an alley oop, get his confidence up, and go on to light it up for 15+ points or so. He just needs to keep doing the little things that earned him the starting nod in the first place.

Orange&BlackSheep
11-24-2010, 09:25 AM
Something is telling me that Kelly is working hard at practice, that is why he is starting and Miles isn't.

Something tells me that Coach would rather have Miles in there as first sub since he views him as being the most experienced, most willing to accept the role, and/or is viewed as bringing more to the team in that role.

COYS
11-24-2010, 09:41 AM
Something tells me that Coach would rather have Miles in there as first sub since he views him as being the most experienced, most willing to accept the role, and/or is viewed as bringing more to the team in that role.

I believe he also made a comment about wanting a physical presence inside for defense to sub in with Andre since Andre often plays the three while Kyle slides over to the 4. Makes sense to me.

Class of '94
11-24-2010, 10:50 AM
I think Ryan has really improved; but he still looks hesistant at times to score. I think he is still trying to figure out where in the office he can get his points; and I think that can hinder his ability to react and use his instincts. Saying that, I think he's going to continue to get better and better as the season progresses; and come March, I think he's going to look really good. And I think the whole team will look better in a few months than they do now; and that's a scary thought.

jv001
11-24-2010, 10:56 AM
Ryan is playing very well. He hit a big 3 from the corner last night. It looks like he and Miles are spelling each other at the 5. Mason is playing very well and will get most of the big's minutes. We have a big 4 (Kyle, Nolan, Kyrie & Mason). However there is not a big drop off after those 4. Go Duke!

dukeimac
11-24-2010, 11:36 AM
Maybe, but Coach K expressly said it was to try a different look, so that Mason was down low to start, and Ryan could play outside.

Absolutely! Isn't that Coach playing to Duke's strength.

Look, everything Coach does is to emphasize Duke's strengths and the opponents weaknesses. Thus, lineups will be mixed and matched to force other teams to play to Duke, Duke's strengths that is.

For some reason, people still believe basketball is played with a C, PF, SF, SG and a G. What team has that? Not many, and Duke isn't one of them.

If you want to understand this, look at the World team Coach just took to gold. Did they actually have a G, SG, SF, PF and C. I think they had a C but after that I think they had SF and SG's all over. I don't think I would say they had a PF. Lamar is listed as a PF but his range and game is more of a SF in a PF body. When he was on the court he actually played more as a C and he isn't a C.

The problem people are having is they are still trying to fit Duke players into rolls they think they should be in. Coach K is playing them in rolls that best fit them and for the most part, those rolls are not the rolls you think of.

This is the reason why Coach is so good. Takes the parts and puts them together as a team. I believe he would win if he had no body over 6'6" and he would win if everyone was over 6'10". Many would wonder how he could win with such a small lineup or such a big lineup but Coach will figure out a way.

To Coach's credit, he won the title in 2010 with a team from the late 1980's to early 1990's. No one thought he could win it all with a slow game but he did. Today he is winning with a very quick and somewhat small lineup. Everyone worries that he won't have enough post players in 2 years but I believe Coach will win no matter who he has on the team. The man is a brain, yet people who have never even coached a team in the life will worry about what Duke will do because they lost another post player to another school.

I just sit back and laugh. I have all the confidence in the world in Coach K. If there is anything to worry about, it should be who will replace Coach K because there isn't another person as smart as him coaching college ball. Not Dawkins, not Roy, not even Tom Izzo. No one can come close to Coach K. The man is master, after Coach K Duke will go in the night. I will enjoy the years he has left and when he is gone I will also retire from college basketball.

Kedsy
11-24-2010, 12:41 PM
...those rolls are not the rolls you think of.

I was thinking of cinnamon rolls... is that wrong?

sagegrouse
11-24-2010, 01:56 PM
The problem people are having is they are still trying to fit Duke players into rolls they think they should be in. Coach K is playing them in rolls that best fit them and for the most part, those rolls are not the rolls you think of.



Sorry to pile on, but I have three thoughts:

1. Every thread at DBR eventually talks about BBQ.

2. I am not sure why Dennis Scott, Charles Barkley, Nigel Dixon ("Big Jelly"), or John ("Hot Plate") Williams are being discussed in a Duke thread.

3. I guess I conclude that you can't wait for Thanskgiving dinner.

sagegrouse
'Just good clean fun on the day before Thanksgiving'

greybeard
11-24-2010, 04:05 PM
Ryan Kelley's best days are way, way ahead of him, and the only thing that can stop him from realizing his considerable potential when those days arrive is a serious leg injury (they're all serious) this season.

To me, he is the most vulnerable player on this team in terms of injury potential, not because of how he plays, that honor goes to Nolan, but because he is just beginning to grow into a body that can be said to be reasonably mature.

Kelley, I am sure, wants more than anything to really break out and, not having seen him play this year, I am sure that he could. I hope that he doesn't. Injuries last forever and his forever is hopefully a long time. He will get his minutes and will have his moments.

I hope he enjoys playing a limited role, at least in games, learns all he can about himself and the game that he can this season, gets all he can about being a student at Duke this year, and allows his body to fully mature without engaging in risky on-court behaviors or being overtaxed.

I don't know what they are, but the odds that a kid with his build and style of play avoiding a blown knee, torn up ankle or foot, cannot be good. He avoids that and he and the Duke program will be the better for it.

So far, it sounds like he is getting the best of all worlds. I hope he continues to start, to get meaningful but limited minutes, and is not asked to play crunch-time minutes, unless fouls or injuries make it necessary. He then will have the rest of his life to be all that he can be, which might well be more than worth the wait.

dukeimac
11-24-2010, 05:59 PM
Sorry to pile on, but I have three thoughts:

1. Every thread at DBR eventually talks about BBQ.

2. I am not sure why Dennis Scott, Charles Barkley, Nigel Dixon ("Big Jelly"), or John ("Hot Plate") Williams are being discussed in a Duke thread.

3. I guess I conclude that you can't wait for Thanskgiving dinner.

sagegrouse
'Just good clean fun on the day before Thanksgiving'

Sorry role, I was in a hurry. Unlike most of you here, I have to go to work.

WiJoe
11-24-2010, 06:41 PM
he had 3 fouls early i believe....mason's been playing awesomely, andre's been playing awesome, there are only 40 minutes in a game.......

his second foul came with 4:28 left in the half

NSDukeFan
11-24-2010, 07:04 PM
Coach K doesn't develop his starters enough.

hq2
11-24-2010, 07:23 PM
I don't think he's quite found his role yet. He's a good outside shooter who likes to put 'em up from out there, but we really need low post play. He can do that on D respectably, but on offense I don't think he's quite sure what he should be doing. He also needs some time to understand what he's physically capable of now with his new height and strength. Let him work on it a bit; I'd say by February he'll have found his niche.

MChambers
11-24-2010, 08:49 PM
Sorry role, I was in a hurry. Unlike most of you here, I have to go to work.
You were quickly eating your cinnamon rolls? Sorry, but I couldn't resist. (other than the misspelling, I liked your points.)

rhcpflea99
11-24-2010, 09:54 PM
To my eyes, he looks great. He plays good D, takes charges, communicates, rotates well, is full of positive energy, and stretches the defense on O, occasionally knocking down a 3-pointer. And yet, despite the fact that he starts, he seems to be buried in the rotation. Tonight he only played 10 minutes, less than Miles even. What am I missing? Is he doing something wrong? Please share if you understand why he's playing so sparingly.

10 min on a loaded Duke is not bad at all. I have said it after the first game Kelly should start. Kelly is playing better team defense than Miles. Season is still long and there is plenty of time to improve and earn more time.

kexman
11-24-2010, 10:23 PM
To stay on topic, I have been very impressed with Kelly's improvement over last year. Kudos to him!!!

This team has a lot of good/great players. I think several times this year I will wonder what would happen if player x could get 30 minutes a game. Curry and Dawkins both look like they deserve 20-30 minutes a game since they have played well. Of course you don't want to sit Nolan Smith and Kyrie Irvin for 30 minutes a game. You might be able to split the Duke team up and have 2 top 10 starting units. It is good to be duke!!!

Nolan Smith, Curry, Hairston, Kelly, Mason
Kyrie Irvin,Thorton, Dawkins, Singlar, Miles

dukeimac
11-24-2010, 10:55 PM
You were quickly eating your cinnamon rolls? Sorry, but I couldn't resist. (other than the misspelling, I liked your points.)

It would not be a cinnamon roll, it would be a dinner roll with butter and a nice piece of ham, hot ham.

uh_no
11-24-2010, 10:56 PM
Kyrie Irvin,Thorton, Dawkins, Singlar, Miles

this isn't duke's team....that's for sure