View Full Version : Too Many TO's, Too Young
kybluedevil
11-23-2010, 09:55 AM
A win is a win, but... C'mon. Duke's performance would not get it done against a highly ranked and talented team. I'm all for up tempo, but not with the careless play showcased yesterday. Where is the defensive tone? Marquette is a midling Big East team at best.
It was like a slideshow of bad memories from early NCAA exits. Large lead evaporated. Big men not-named-Mason unable to finish around basket, and 3pt shooting goes cold during cruciual part of game. Get it together, fellas!
airowe
11-23-2010, 10:05 AM
70% of our players are underclassmen.
Our freshman point guard just played his 4th game and his 1st away from home.
The team played its fourth game with a new offensive scheme that will lead to turnovers.
Give it some time.
timmy c
11-23-2010, 10:16 AM
A win is a win, but... C'mon. Duke's performance would not get it done against a highly ranked and talented team. I'm all for up tempo, but not with the careless play showcased yesterday. Where is the defensive tone? Marquette is a midling Big East team at best.
It was like a slideshow of bad memories from early NCAA exits. Large lead evaporated. Big men not-named-Mason unable to finish around basket, and 3pt shooting goes cold during cruciual part of game. Get it together, fellas!
How quickly we forget that last year’s team didn’t start the season as the best team in the country. This team will get better. Free throws, turnovers, and defensive rotations all need help. The good news is that Duke didn’t fold when Marquette made a run at them.
Tonight will be another opportunity to get better.
Duke: A Dynasty
11-23-2010, 10:16 AM
70% of our players are underclassmen.
Our freshman point guard just played his 4th game and his 1st away from home.
The team played its fourth game with a new offensive scheme that will lead to turnovers.
Give it some time.
This right here. And Nolan and Kyle played unlike themselves. They usually are a little more careful with the ball. I think they were just used to going for 100 pts that they thought they could do it easily against Marquette and tryed to force it too much. They should settle down more tonight.
Also Marquette is preety dang good as well. All my college basketball magazines this year have them rated anywhere from 30th to 45th and they recieved some votes to be placed in the top 25. So they arn't to be taken lightly. Michigan State should have more to be worried about than us based on their performance and K-State had about the same kind of problems we did last night. Although they hit an unusual amount of threes for them I believe.
DUKIECB
11-23-2010, 10:16 AM
Good grief! I agree with Airowe, we have to give this team some time to develop. They are definitely talented and probably the best team on paper in the country but it's a long season and players are trying to figure out their roles. They are young, the season is young.
Sit back, relax and watch them develop. That's part of the fun!
Duke4Ever32
11-23-2010, 10:18 AM
A win is a win, but... C'mon. Duke's performance would not get it done against a highly ranked and talented team. I'm all for up tempo, but not with the careless play showcased yesterday. Where is the defensive tone? Marquette is a midling Big East team at best.
It was like a slideshow of bad memories from early NCAA exits. Large lead evaporated. Big men not-named-Mason unable to finish around basket, and 3pt shooting goes cold during cruciual part of game. Get it together, fellas!
I'm counting 3 posts from you, all negative and critical of Duke. You sure you're a Duke fan?? There's nothing in their start that you find positive or enjoyable?? Really??
Duke: A Dynasty
11-23-2010, 10:27 AM
I'm counting 3 posts from you, all negative and critical of Duke. You sure you're a Duke fan?? There's nothing in their start that you find positive or enjoyable?? Really??
Is this Kong's half-brother???? Lol you are right though 3 posts: Duke is too perimeter oriented, Christian Laettner has caused all bad stereotypes, and now this. :confused:
jipops
11-23-2010, 10:36 AM
A win is a win, but... C'mon. Duke's performance would not get it done against a highly ranked and talented team. I'm all for up tempo, but not with the careless play showcased yesterday. Where is the defensive tone? Marquette is a midling Big East team at best.
It was like a slideshow of bad memories from early NCAA exits. Large lead evaporated. Big men not-named-Mason unable to finish around basket, and 3pt shooting goes cold during cruciual part of game. Get it together, fellas!
It's November. At the start of the season K specifically addressed the inevitable thoughts such as yours. This team is a team in progress and you absolutely cannot expect perfection. K's quote was, "if you expect perfection, you are going to be disappointed".
This game was terrific from the standpoint of when the game was tied in the 2nd, this Duke team had the fortitude to turn it on and make a push. For that we should be very excited.
Also, did you happen to notice that Mich St. struggled vs. Chaminade - a team not even rated in pomeroy? Again, it is November, everyone is trying to gel right now.
OldPhiKap
11-23-2010, 10:37 AM
I'm counting 3 posts from you, all negative and critical of Duke. You sure you're a Duke fan?? There's nothing in their start that you find positive or enjoyable?? Really??
Next thread to be: too much talent to keep everyone happy with minutes?
House G
11-23-2010, 10:44 AM
I seem to recall Bobby Hurley being a turnover machine early in his career and he wasn't nearly the penetrator that Kyrie is. But then again, perhaps my memory is not what it used to be. I realize the two have distinctly different games but I believe Kyrie is light-years ahead of where Bobby was at this point. I expect him to improve rather quickly as he adjusts to the speed, quickness, and talent of the college game.
Next thread to be: too much talent to keep everyone happy with minutes?
Mason is playing too many minutes:p
Duke: A Dynasty
11-23-2010, 10:45 AM
Next thread to be: too much talent to keep everyone happy with minutes?
Im betting on the "Singler has lost his shooting touch" thread *sighs and shakes head* some people....
Next thread to be: too much talent to keep everyone happy with minutes?
Seriously. Stop feeding the troll, guys. We just beat a pretty talented and obviously well-coached team by what should have been double digits if we could just hit a couple free throws, in the first away from home game of the season when the open three's weren't falling. Our point guard is a freshman and it showed for the first time. We gave up a sizeable lead but immediately took it back. And after all that, Michigan State had more trouble with Chaminade than we did with a probable tourney team.
It's November, and it's not 1999. A challenge like this is a good thing for this team.
yancem
11-23-2010, 10:49 AM
Do we really need a separate thread for this? Shouldn't this simply be part of the post game thread? Seriously!
Duke: A Dynasty
11-23-2010, 10:51 AM
Seriously. Stop feeding the troll, guys. We just beat a pretty talented and obviously well-coached team by what should have been double digits if we could just hit a couple free throws, in the first away from home game of the season when the open three's weren't falling. Our point guard is a freshman and it showed for the first time. We gave up a sizeable lead but immediately took it back. And after all that, Michigan State had more trouble with Chaminade than we did with a probable tourney team.
It's November, and it's not 1999. A challenge like this is a good thing for this team.
Yes in reality we will almost never shoot ft's that bad at the end of the game again... Well if it continues to be Curry, Dawkins, Kyrie, Nolan, and Kyle that is. That had to be a fluke. Those front end one and ones last nigth could have given us 88 pts and suddenly we won by double figures (11)
dukestheheat
11-23-2010, 10:55 AM
A win is a win, but... C'mon. Duke's performance would not get it done against a highly ranked and talented team. I'm all for up tempo, but not with the careless play showcased yesterday. Where is the defensive tone? Marquette is a midling Big East team at best.
It was like a slideshow of bad memories from early NCAA exits. Large lead evaporated. Big men not-named-Mason unable to finish around basket, and 3pt shooting goes cold during cruciual part of game. Get it together, fellas!
While I understand the need to vent....let me toss in that Duke has only played four games so far this whole year. In my opinion, Marquette is vastly UNDERrated! They forced Duke into nineteen turnovers; it's hard to get distance on any opponent when you're turning the ball over that much. Marq did a masterful job on getting into the passing lanes on defense, and also they got a lot of hands up and on the ball.
Despite a great comeback by Marq to force the tie, Duke showed some very early season grit and moxie by clamping down hard on the defensive end and rolling off nine straight points!!
That should show all of us right there what this team, even now, can withstand; it also provides insight into maturity and stability and I do believe that this bodes very well for Duke going forward.
I just have to believe that Marq is truly a lot better than advertised; Duke is as good as advertised and we will learn to play with fewer turnovers and a higher free throw percentage! Let's all choose to hang in with the team and I believe that we'll be rewarded.
dth.
OldPhiKap
11-23-2010, 10:56 AM
Mason is playing too many minutes:p
"How far can we go relying on a player whose name means 'brick layer'?"
"How far can we go relying on a player whose name means 'brick layer'?"
And his backup has the same name!!!
Seth will never be the player Steph is!!! He couldn't even beat his dad one-on-one until he was 17! He averaged 0 ppg last year!
Singler took 4 bad shots last night - he's just playing for the scouts this season!
JWill dunked way more as a freshman than Kyrie does - I'm just not buying his athleticism.
Thonton and Hairston couldn't even get on the court last night. They will never get out of Coach K's dog house. Days until one of them transfers. This is sending a bad message to Rivers, who has to be thinking about de-committing!!!
:rolleyes:
We have so many guards Wojo is going to have to transfer.
Duke: A Dynasty
11-23-2010, 11:11 AM
And his backup has the same name!!!
Seth will never be the player Steph is!!! He couldn't even beat his dad one-on-one until he was 17! He averaged 0 ppg last year!
Singler took 4 bad shots last night - he's just playing for the scouts this season!
JWill dunked way more as a freshman than Kyrie does - I'm just not buying his athleticism.
Thornton and Hairston couldn't even get on the court last night. They will never get out of Coach K's dog house. Days until one of them transfers. This is sending a bad message to Rivers, who has to be thinking about de-committing!!!
:rolleyes:
Actualy he did get in last night but it was very quick. Did anyone else notice this? He was on for a minute or less I think.
Bob Green
11-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Actualy he did get in last night but it was very quick. Did anyone else notice this? He was on for a minute or less I think.
Yes, I noticed. It is called a situational substitution. Coach Krzyzewski subbed Thornton into the game for Marquette's last possession of the 1st half to play hard nosed defense. Coach K desired to ensure K. Irving didn't pick up an unnecessary foul.
Devilsfan
11-23-2010, 11:18 AM
The analysts said the game finally turned when Dre was subbed for a big not named Mason.
Duke: A Dynasty
11-23-2010, 11:32 AM
Yes, I noticed. It is called a situational substitution. Coach Krzyzewski subbed Thornton into the game for Marquette's last possession of the 1st half to play hard nosed defense. Coach K desired to ensure K. Irving didn't pick up an unnecessary foul.
Ok I could not remember when he went in. i just remembered seeing a 3 jersey out there for a few seconds and espn did not acknowledge he came in at all until this morning. (via box score)
91_92_01_10_15
11-23-2010, 11:38 AM
A win is a win, but... C'mon. Duke's performance would not get it done against a highly ranked and talented team. I'm all for up tempo, but not with the careless play showcased yesterday. Where is the defensive tone? Marquette is a midling Big East team at best.
It was like a slideshow of bad memories from early NCAA exits. Large lead evaporated. Big men not-named-Mason unable to finish around basket, and 3pt shooting goes cold during cruciual part of game. Get it together, fellas!
Go ahead and come out as a UK fan. We won't run you off.
OldPhiKap
11-23-2010, 11:39 AM
There is seriously a poster over on IC who is arguing that Kyrie is overrated because, if you compare his stats in 25 m.p.g. to the combined stats of their two point guards for 40 minutes, the UNC guards edge out Kyrie. You can't make this stuff up.
Duke: A Dynasty
11-23-2010, 11:47 AM
There is seriously a poster over on IC who is arguing that Kyrie is overrated because, if you compare his stats in 25 m.p.g. to the combined stats of their two point guards for 40 minutes, the UNC guards edge out Kyrie. You can't make this stuff up.
I seriously just laughed! How ignorant can someone be?
DukeFanSince1990
11-23-2010, 11:59 AM
There is seriously a poster over on IC who is arguing that Kyrie is overrated because, if you compare his stats in 25 m.p.g. to the combined stats of their two point guards for 40 minutes, the UNC guards edge out Kyrie. You can't make this stuff up.
So 2 guards EDGE out one, and the one is overrated?........so both of their points is just a wee better than one of ours?........SWEET!
PADukeMom
11-23-2010, 12:05 PM
There are 6,make that 5, difficult games we are playing in the next 2 weeks. AS much as I want us to win all of them, I wouldn't be surprised if we lost one or two games. The OP's post just blew me away. WOW! Okay so we beat a very good Marquette team on our first road trip & you feel there is something to be worried about. True we didn't win by 50 points but who expected that??? Yes there are areas that need improvement but overall it was a really good win.
I was rather pleased to see Mason have a break-out game & hope he continues to improve. During the game last night, who made the comment that this year's squad isn't nearly as good as last year at this point in the season? How can you possibly compare Kyrie to Jon or Mason to Zoubs? IIRC at this point last season Zoubs was playing like he had tennis rackets for hands.
Side note: am I allowed to offically hate on Brian Gottlieb?
Side note: am I allowed to offically hate on Brian Gottlieb?
YES! He said Duke isn't the team they were last year at this point, then went on to justify that comment by saying Zoubek didn't come on and improve the team until later in the year. Huh? He also loved on Mich St. a lot prior to the Chaminarade they put on later that night.
Devilsfan
11-23-2010, 12:25 PM
Gotleib, isn't that the brainiac that got kicked out of Notre Dame for some credit card issue? And he lands a job at ESPN doing Duke game commentary? Is there no justice?
DoubleDuke Dad
11-23-2010, 12:38 PM
Yes, I noticed. It is called a situational substitution. Coach Krzyzewski subbed Thornton into the game for Marquette's last possession of the 1st half to play hard nosed defense. Coach K desired to ensure K. Irving didn't pick up an unnecessary foul.
At the time I was wondering why he put Thornton in. Then I realized the purpose was to foul since Duke had a foul to give. However it was Curry and not Thornton that gave the foul.
At the time I was wondering why he put Thornton in. Then I realized the purpose was to foul since Duke had a foul to give. However it was Curry and not Thornton that gave the foul.
Thornton didn't come in just to foul. He was in there to play tough defense on marquette's last shot of the half while ensuring that Kyrie didn't pick up a cheap foul, as he was on the bench (as Bob Green noted).
Indoor66
11-23-2010, 01:04 PM
"How far can we go relying on a player whose name means 'brick layer'?"
What are his cinder block measurements?
OldPhiKap
11-23-2010, 01:09 PM
What are his cinder block measurements?
Clearly, from the photograph I saw taken from the upstairs window, the kid's not tall enough to even be a quarterback. But I digress.
Devil in the Blue Dress
11-23-2010, 01:13 PM
Clearly, from the photograph I saw taken from the upstairs window, the kid's not tall enough to even be a quarterback. But I digress.
What's this? Do we need a quarterback? I thought we already had two.
Kedsy
11-23-2010, 01:27 PM
Also, did you happen to notice that Mich St. struggled vs. Chaminade - a team not even rated in pomeroy?
Well, Chaminade is not an NCAA Division I team (they are NAIA), so I wouldn't expect them to be rated.
Kedsy
11-23-2010, 01:29 PM
"How far can we go relying on a player whose name means 'brick layer'?"
And his backup has the same name!!!
I think he meant "Mason," not "Plumlee."
kybluedevil
11-23-2010, 01:31 PM
Interesting views here. Firstly, I am NOT a troll. After personally watching Duke lose the most heartbreaking '99 Final to UConn in Tampa, I vowed never to drink the Kool-Aid. I am a fair, yet honest fan of our Dukies. Yes, we are young. But this applies to all teams too. All teams will get better.
The one positive thing is that winning a close game will mentally prepare our team for March. My only point was that we, being targeted as the #1 Team, did not play like The Best Team in America last night. Last year was almost a blessing, staying just out of the Top 5 all year. Everyone will be giving us their best shot.
Looking forward to tonight. Win or lose, it will be a great measuring stick.
Go Duke!
I don't think we haven't gotten a team's "best shot" in ages. It's pretty much status quo for us.
-jk
PADukeMom
11-23-2010, 03:24 PM
Interesting views here. Firstly, I am NOT a troll. After personally watching Duke lose the most heartbreaking '99 Final to UConn in Tampa, I vowed never to drink the Kool-Aid. I am a fair, yet honest fan of our Dukies. Yes, we are young. But this applies to all teams too. All teams will get better.
The one positive thing is that winning a close game will mentally prepare our team for March. My only point was that we, being targeted as the #1 Team, did not play like The Best Team in America last night. Last year was almost a blessing, staying just out of the Top 5 all year. Everyone will be giving us their best shot.
Looking forward to tonight. Win or lose, it will be a great measuring stick.
Go Duke!
I think we play every game with a target on our back. It is the dream of every mid-major to knock DUKE off. It is only human nature to hate the best teams out there. A win is a win plain & simple. I'll take it whether it is by 1 point or 50. Each game is a chance for the players to learn & develop from each other. This won't stop until the buzzer sounds on the first Monday in April.
Do not bring up 1999, still a sore spot with me.
timmy c
11-23-2010, 03:38 PM
"How far can we go relying on a player whose name means 'brick layer'?"
I expect to go... wait for it.... miles. :D
elvis14
11-23-2010, 03:43 PM
I don't think we haven't gotten a team's "best shot" in ages. It's pretty much status quo for us.
-jk
82-50 ;)
I think he meant "Mason," not "Plumlee."
In my defense, my tongue was so firmly planted in my cheek that I couldn't think straight at the time.
I seem to recall Bobby Hurley being a turnover machine early in his career and he wasn't nearly the penetrator that Kyrie is. But then again, perhaps my memory is not what it used to be. I realize the two have distinctly different games but I believe Kyrie is light-years ahead of where Bobby was at this point. I expect him to improve rather quickly as he adjusts to the speed, quickness, and talent of the college game.
I was thinking along the same lines, watching the game. I was trying to remember the last Duke point guard who could make entry passes and feed the post the way Kyrie has been so far. I was thinking of Hurley, and how he used his three point shot from the top of the key to yo'yo his defender and then get angles to feed the ball inside. Irving hasn't done that so much, but maybe uses his speed and dribble drive to play off of and then get the ball down low. Still really nice to see a point using offensive skills to set up assists and scores for their teammates.
The turnovers will improve with time and more experience in who to get the ball to and where.
May take awhile and may take a loss or two to get all the kinks worked out, but should be fun to watch.
Go Duke!
I seem to recall Bobby Hurley being a turnover machine early in his career and he wasn't nearly the penetrator that Kyrie is. But then again, perhaps my memory is not what it used to be. ...
IIRC, Duke's AD was investigating extra insurance because of the missiles that Bobby would fire into the stands his freshman year. I don't recall any casualties, but fans were discouraged from bringing children to games, and those in rows 15 -40 often wore helmets (the lower rows were fairly safe).
CEF1959
11-23-2010, 04:20 PM
Trolls and sports "analysts" (i.e. any sports writer who doesn't spend 70% of his time interviewing sources) have this in common:
They love your attention.
It actually makes the "analysts" money and credibility. The trolls, well they do it for the same reason people masturbate.
Think about that the next time you spend 3 pages of forum entries micro-analyzing some idiot thread or the latest Lunardi revelation just because it's there. You can work it if you want, but you are feeding a beast that is not your friend.
Vincetaylor
11-23-2010, 07:59 PM
A win is a win, but... C'mon. Duke's performance would not get it done against a highly ranked and talented team. I'm all for up tempo, but not with the careless play showcased yesterday. Where is the defensive tone? Marquette is a midling Big East team at best.
It was like a slideshow of bad memories from early NCAA exits. Large lead evaporated. Big men not-named-Mason unable to finish around basket, and 3pt shooting goes cold during cruciual part of game. Get it together, fellas!
You can easily find flaws with every team in the country right now. Not the slightest bit worried about this team. Our guards were just a little overconfident last night and thought they could drive and dish as if Marquette was a vastly inferior opponent...which they were not. They will learn to be more patient against better teams.
airowe
11-24-2010, 01:07 AM
Didn't take long to fix those problems, huh? :cool:
Starter
11-24-2010, 01:14 AM
Didn't take long to fix those problems, huh? :cool:
Enough of this glass-half-full stuff. If Kansas State had scored 15 more points, we would have lost. And Kyrie fell down once. Get it together, fellas!
By the way, I'm not a troll either.
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