Duke 82, Marquette 77 Post Game Thread

[Bob Green]

Discuss the game here.

[DukieInBrasil]

Mason Plumlee. won. the. game.

[ice-9]

Mason Plumlee. End of discussion.

[roywhite]

Mason was terrific.

Marquette gave us a good shot; had trouble stopping them; good learning experience.

[OZ]

Mason was the man...great game!

We better start hitting those free throws or it is going to cost us.

[gotoguy]

Good game Mason way to finish.

Freethrows, ouch

survive and advance

[VaDukie]

Just an incredible game by Mason Plumlee and a shaky effort from just about everyone else. Way too many unforced errors from our backcourt. We'll need a better effort tomorrow night and I think we'll get it.

[Bluedevil114]

Mason was incredible on both ends. If we can get consistent play from him every night we will be great. If Mason continues this play (hopefully this is not the Wake game from last year) our shooters will find more room on the perimeter. We were sloppy with the ball but that can be fixed. Marquette is a good team and unlike UNC we took care of business beating a team we should beat.

[superdave]

Thanks to Marquette for putting us through some presses and traps, for making us step up after a big run and for putting us in a scenario where we need to run the spread offense. This game will serve us well over the next two weeks.

[SCMatt33]

Obviously not the greatest game ever, but here's a scary thought. Duke plays a sluggish game and is bailed out not by the seniors, not by perimeter shooting, not by getting to the line, but by a dominant low post performance. Mason still has kinks to work out (coughfoulshootingcough), but for him to get those numbers, especially at the end is just ridiculous.

[elvis14]

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Plumlee,

Thank you!

Sincerely, Duke Basketball Fans

[CLW]

Survived a sloppy game with too many turnovers/miscues. Hopefully, it will grab the team's attention. I don't think we win the next game against either K State or Gonzaga with 18 turnovers and shooting 50% from the free throw line.

[mapei]

Mason Plumlee. won. the. game.

Agreed. Kyle was way off in the second half, Nolan sort of average. We failed to get back on D a bunch of times and let Marq pick our pockets for steals. But Mason's tenaciousness on the boards and putbacks was ultimately the difference. Good sparks when we needed them from Dawkins and Curry.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Good game for us. We were sloppy, but today's sloppiness will turn into March's ballet. When we were challenged, we responded. And Mason became a man today (happy Bar Mitzvah, Mason! :cool:)

[Gthoma2a]

Mason has become a new monster completely.

Now, that is a coach that can lead, and players with the character to respond. Things didn't go our way for part of the game, but we showed the heart to make it our night.

[loran16]

For those curious (probably like 2 of you at most), SCACC's #s were way off tonight.

Duke played 77 possessions (Marquette 80, due to Duke Missing 1 and 1s), Duke scored only 1.065 Points per possession (Way below Duke Average...Duke should score at least 1.18, NCAA average is roughly 1.01), while Marquette scored .963 Points per possession. For contrast, none of the teams we'd played previously had scored more than 0.77 points per possession. Sooo, our defense was way below it's usual, and our offense was way down.

Which is what you'd expect. Mason was amazing, but the team's D was really poor tonight. Also, way way too many turnovers. Just ugh. Play better in the finals or we lose.

[delfrio]

Yeah, this is about as expected. I predicted a 6 point win, basically because this is our first real test, and we have bugs to work out of the system. We'll figure out how to dial back the sloppy passing. Nice job by Mason, he just looked bigger than everyone. The main worry at this point seems to be free throw shooting. Don't know what we need there other than focus and practice.

[ice-9]

Agreed. Kyle was way off in the second half, Nolan sort of average. We failed to get back on D a bunch of times and let Marq pick our pockets for steals. But Mason's tenaciousness on the boards and putbacks was ultimately the difference. Good sparks when we needed them from Dawkins and Curry.

Nolan was good (18 pts on 8 of 13 shooting, 9 rebounds, 3 assists) except for turnovers: he had 6! Kyrie had 5. Turnovers really hurt us this game.

[Faison1]

I figured this would be a tough game. Kyrie has had NO challenge so far. You have to expect a frosh point guard to have an adjustment period. Hopefully he puts it together in 24 hours. :)

The game does not seem to be slowing down for Miles. Maybe it's just going to take him a bit longer.

I LOVE Andre. Kid is a player. As much as I am going to enjoy this year, I am equally looking forward to next year when he can star. Same with Ryan Kelly.

[dukelifer]

Discuss the game here.
Never quite sure how to evaluate these kind of games. First, Duke is playing away for the first time and that always takes adjusting. Second, they are playing back to back games so there is a tendency to hold back a bit in the first game to conserve energy. Duke played a bit too fast in the first half and then did not really do a good job stopping Marquette on the drives to the hoop. Marquette played pretty well and seemed to make a lot of tough shots. But all in all- Duke is a better team and it showed. This team is still a work in progress. Will need to work hard on the stall ball- you have to hit foul shots! Great game by Mason. The single Plumlee lineup with Dawkins and the other starters is probably the best team Duke can put on the floor. Overall- Duke got pushed and responded well. They should have won by 10-12 and probably would have if they hit their throws down the end. But survive and advance.

[Dukeface88]

This reminded me of the ASU game last year. Looked sloppy, but managed to come away with the win. Obviously there's a lot to learn from this game, but better to learn from a win than a loss. We really seemed to be force feeding the post, which I think accounts for some of the tos. If that was what it took to get Mason going for the season, it was probably worth it.

[Channing]

looked to me like Mason stopped thinking (except on the free throws) and started just playing basketball. He took what the defenders gave him and had fun. We all knew this ability was there, it was just a matter of letting it out. That was awesome.

Would have been nice to see some better defense, but remember, Duke's traditional defense (overplaying passing lanes) is new for everyone, since we didn't play it last year.

It looked like we got away from moving the ball around after the first five minutes, and became content to make one, maybe two passes, and then shoot. When we were swinging the ball early in the game it was just a matter of time before one of our snipers found an open look.

Will be interesting to see Mason go against either Curtis Kelly or Robert Sacre/Elias Harris tomorrow.

[RoyalBlue08]

Mason certainly saved this game for us. Nothing I saw troubled me too much though. The starting backcourt was sloppy for sure, but I just think we need some more time against quality opponents to learn to value the ball a bit more. No reason to doubt Nolan and Kyrie long term. Loved what I saw out of Dre. He is so much improved in so many areas from last season. I think he is clearly separating himself in the race to be the first guard off the bench.

[Kedsy]

Well, lots of interesting things today. I thought it was our defense that let us down during Marquette's mid-second half run. After K's strategic timeout we came out with a renewed defensive fervor and broke the game back open.

I know so many people have been clamoring for us to dump it down low to an offensive low-post presence and those people got their wish tonight, and Mason was exceptional... except speaking only for myself I didn't feel nearly as confident in that sort of offense as I did in our usual offense. Personally I hope we aren't forced into this sort of offense too often.

I haven't seen a proper box score or play-by-play or plus/minus analysis, but it seemed to me we played a whole lot of small tonight, even to the extent of playing Kyle and the shrimps for the last couple minutes. I'll wait until I see the stats before forming a final opinion, but I thought the small lineup didn't play such great defense, except in the brief stretch right after the strategic timeout. It was odd, because I thought Miles and Ryan played pretty well in the first half, but I didn't notice them playing so much in the second half.

Also, I thought Andre played a great game tonight. He played good defense and was diving all over the place, and was in the middle of a lot of the good plays during the key stretch of the game. Seth seemed to be rushing his shots a bit.

All in all, a good learning experience for what essentially is a pretty young team. I'm hoping for more consistent effort tomorrow night.

[DukieInBrasil]

I felt like we saw a lot of things in this game that we probably won't see very much of again. Lots of careless mistakes, lots of airballs, lots of turnovers by dribbling off of our own feet, missing the front end of one and one FTs, each of which happened at least twice, when we probably don't commit more than one or two of those errors in most games. I thought the super non aggressive D in the final minute was weird too, as it almost gave Marquette that sliver of a chance.
Give Marquette a ton of credit for making it a good game, they coulda folded early down 13 but they went out and took control of the game.
That timeout by K was the critical turning point in the game. We went up by 13 immediately after it and held on from there.

[Bluedevil114]

We looked sloppy but it is way too early for this team. We will be fine and I look for us to regroup tomorrow and put it to KState.

Look at Chaminade beating Michigan State by 8 points, twelve minutes into the game.

[Saratoga2]

At least tonight, the best combo on the floor was Mason, Kyrie, Nolan, Kyle and Andre. One could make a case for Kelly as the first sub into that group, as he played well, when given the chance. With Mason having a wonderful game, the only chink in his armor tonight was his foul shooting. Could hack-a-plum be a new defensive strategy?

On the negative side, Miles seemed to have significant issues catching the ball and went to the floor on one to lose control. I counted 5 misplays on him. The game still seems to go a little too fast for him.

Defense broke down at times but Marquette is a very good team and will do that to a lot of teams.

I think we are best with Kyrie handling the ball. Nolan is a decent ball handler, but has a tendency to dribble the ball where a defender can take it from him. He is great off the ball so that is where I prefer he concentrate.

Kyle also does better when fed the ball. I don't think he should try to take it into the center on a dribble. That is not his strength.

I don't think either Hairston or Thornton got into this game. I can understand that, since we had to really struggle to win this one.

Good win for the team and the birth of a true star in Mason. With his presence around the basket, this team has still another dimension and is harder to stop. Coach K did a great job of getting the team to play when things were going poorly.

[mapei]

Would have been nice to see some better defense, but remember, Duke's traditional defense (overplaying passing lanes) is new for everyone, since we didn't play it last year.

At times it looked like we weren't defending the perimeter at all. Weird. They had many open 3s. And then we weren't getting back on transitions and even after made shots.

[moonpie23]

what's up with those missed free throws?

........



....................

[LSanders]

Loved what I saw out of Dre. He is so much improved in so many areas from last season. I think he is clearly separating himself in the race to be the first guard off the bench.

Ryan's doing the same ... Maybe not at the same rate, but he's improving at a nice clip and seems to have some good court awareness.

[roywhite]

Coach K with post-game comments;
we knew they were very athletic, would come at us, started very well, we were giddy at first, no sense of urgency, Marquette got into good rhythm, ended half well, Marquette had a lot of confidence and went at us in 2nd half...Mason was terrific, Andre made a great defensive play, Kyle taking the charge...we played outstanding basketball from 10 min to 3 min mark in 2nd half...

Crowder and Butler were tough, need to play better defense and take care of ball, we had 19 turnovers, really tough hard-fought win, good response to game pressure, not too concerned about the turnaround, need to take good care of ball, that's key

[Faison1]

Just watched Dickie V's interview with Mason....he's very well spoken. Gave a lot of thought to what he was going to say, and tried to avoid cliche's. Color me impressed. Another very fine representative of the University and Program. His parents must be proud. I am VERY happy for him.

[timmy c]

11 Turnovers from the PG spot. This is an area for improvement.

[roywhite]

Mason post-game comments
Had our hands on lot of balls and didn't get the rebounds...got confidence after he had a couple baskets, stayed aggressive, realized we had to pick it up in 2nd half, times we let down defensively

[Newton_14]

The sign of a great team is the ability to pull out a win in game where they are no where near their best. This is a promising sign. Marquette was very athletic, especially on the wings, had great quickness, and good size inside. They knocked our guys back with all of that as well.

Part of that is the fact that this was the first really talented team we have played. The speed of the game was far beyond what our guys had seen thus far. It affected the young guys as well as Miles (who is officially in The Funk, but still confident he will come out of it).

Nolan and Kyle let it knock them back as well. All that said, when Marquette tied it, I felt it could go either way. We would continue our sluggish defense, loose with the ball ways and get beat, or we would answer. I actually expected a back and forth war with a 1 or 2 point game the rest of the way, but our guys responded to the challenge and stepped it up, none more-so than Mason. What a game for him. He made a few sophomoric mistakes with the bad outlet, and letting the guard steal a rebound, but he freaking dominated the paint in the final 10 minutes.

The guys needed this. We will see a different effort tomorrow night, I am willing to bet on that. Our defense tonight was just not there until the one stretch when we put the game away. Certainly not the same defense we saw Friday, and forget competition level, tonight was just as much about effort as talent level.

Another step toward putting the pieces together. This team will constantly be reminded throughout the year that they have to play hard to be great. They will take everyone's best shot. Playing lackadaisical will put them in a position to lose.

Playing Duke defense will lead to blowout wins. Always great to learn a lesson and still win rather than the opposite.

Bring on tomorrow night! Go Duke!

[jipops]

About time we see a big guy not put the ball on the floor as soon as he gets the ball. Mason was terrific at keeping the ball high and getting it up quickly while remaining under control. I really don't like that turn around fade away he shows though he finally got one to go down, hope he doesn't fall in love with it.

Nolan had a dreadful floor game but was big on the boards and scoring. Very nice games by Kryie, Kyle, and Andre.

K went with Kyle as the 2nd big for the last 10 minutes of the game. This was obvously the right move.

[DukieInBrasil]

I haven't seen a proper box score or play-by-play or plus/minus analysis, but it seemed to me we played a whole lot of small tonight, even to the extent of playing Kyle and the shrimps for the last couple minutes. I'll wait until I see the stats before forming a final opinion, but I thought the small lineup didn't play such great defense, except in the brief stretch right after the strategic timeout. It was odd, because I thought Miles and Ryan played pretty well in the first half, but I didn't notice them playing so much in the second half.

I noticed Ryan sitting a whole bunch in the second half, too. I figured that Miles stayed on the bench b/c of the to's, especially the one where he kicked a fast-break dunk off of his shin cuz he was thinkin' bout the jam when he shoulda been thinkin' bout the ball.

[Dukeface88]

no sense of urgency

I think K hit the nail on the head with this one. After that run in the first half we got cocky and let up. When Marquette didn't roll over like our other opponents so far, we had trouble getting back into gear.

[jipops]

This reminded me of the ASU game last year. Looked sloppy, but managed to come away with the win.

I don't think this was anything like the ASU game last year in terms of style of play. But yes, it did get sloppy at times. It was a good November win.

[Newton_14]

At least tonight, the best combo on the floor was Mason, Kyrie, Nolan, Kyle and Andre. One could make a case for Kelly as the first sub into that group, as he played well, when given the chance. With Mason having a wonderful game, the only chink in his armor tonight was his foul shooting. Could hack-a-plum be a new defensive strategy?

On the negative side, Miles seemed to have significant issues catching the ball and went to the floor on one to lose control. I counted 5 misplays on him. The game still seems to go a little too fast for him.

Defense broke down at times but Marquette is a very good team and will do that to a lot of teams.

I think we are best with Kyrie handling the ball. Nolan is a decent ball handler, but has a tendency to dribble the ball where a defender can take it from him. He is great off the ball so that is where I prefer he concentrate.

Kyle also does better when fed the ball. I don't think he should try to take it into the center on a dribble. That is not his strength.

I don't think either Hairston or Thornton got into this game. I can understand that, since we had to really struggle to win this one.

Good win for the team and the birth of a true star in Mason. With his presence around the basket, this team has still another dimension and is harder to stop. Coach K did a great job of getting the team to play when things were going poorly.

Thornton actually got in the game at the end of the first half. K subbed him in for Kyrie to play defense on the last possession of the half. The kid can guard, which is great. Josh had a DNP. K mentioned the other night we have 10 "Ready to Play" kids, but he will settle in to mostly a 8 man rotation to insure Kyle and Nolan get more minutes. He feels the team as a whole will be stronger like that. Josh and Tyler will still get minutes against lighter competition and in blowouts.

[cptnflash]

I thought we were outplayed for more than half of the game tonight. We had two great stretches - the first 8 minutes of the game, during which we outscored Marquette by 14 and generally looked like the Globetrotters, and from roughly the 10 minute mark to the 5 minute mark in the second half, during which we outscored them by 10 and looked like a Duke team that was angry and motivated. During the other 27 minutes of the game, they beat us by 19 points. If we don't play better tomorrow, we will lose.

Some other observations, some of which are clearly outside of the consensus that has developed (but are only my opinion regardless):

Kyrie was awesome. Distributed the ball very well, and created his own offense when necessary. I can live with five turnovers in his first game against real competition.

Nolan was shaky, despite his shooting percentage. I found myself wondering a couple times if he's suffering from Kyrie envy and trying to make plays he's not capable of making.

Mason was good, but not nearly as good as his stat line. He was out of position on defense several times in the first half, and despite a few nice blocks he struggled to stop Gardner, Butler, and Crowley from scoring. Look at their stat lines... Mason did not dominate on both ends the way everyone is claiming.

Coach K is the best coach in America. I love the fact that he lit the team up during the timeout after Marquette tied it.

In general, I thought the team looked tired too early in the game. Did anyone else feel like we ran out of gas too soon?

I think we'll learn a lot about the team tomorrow. Can we play better after underachieving for the first time all year? Will Mason listen to what I hope will be a healthy dose of constructive criticism in the immediate aftermath of the best statistical game of his Duke career? Can we play with energy for 40 minutes against a high quality opponent? Can we deal with a team that has lots of beef up front? I'm really looking forward to finding out.

(I should add that in my comments about an opponent with beef up front, I'm assuming a K State win which is probably unfair to Gonzaga. So let's just say I'm hoping for a K State win because I'd like to see us tested against one of the best teams in the country as soon as possible. There's no better way to learn.)

[Saratoga2]

11 Turnovers from the PG spot. This is an area for improvement.

Two of Kyries to's may have come on mishandles of his good passes to Miles. He did dribble one off his foot and slipped on another. I don't know where the other one came from. The slowdown game seemed to put Kyrie into a poor spot. I hope we don't fall in love with the slowdown. There are times it works, but I think we would have been better served to move the ball around and lot to stay aggressive offensively.

[Kedsy]

I noticed Ryan sitting a whole bunch in the second half, too. I figured that Miles stayed on the bench b/c of the to's, especially the one where he kicked a fast-break dunk off of his shin cuz he was thinkin' bout the jam when he shoulda been thinkin' bout the ball.

Well, yeah, but Kyrie did the same thing one time. Let's not get too down on Miles. I thought he played good defense in his limited minutes.

[LSanders]

Nolan was shaky, despite his shooting percentage. I found myself wondering a couple times if he's suffering from Kyrie envy and trying to make plays he's not capable of making.

Mason was good, but not nearly as good as his stat line. He was out of position on defense several times in the first half, and despite a few nice blocks he struggled to stop Gardner, Butler, and Crowley from scoring. Look at their stat lines... Mason did not dominate on both ends the way everyone is claiming.

I thought Nolan and Kyle both tried too hard to put the team on their backs and win it themselves instead of leading the team, calming everyone down, and building the intensity. These aren't criticisms. I just think those two put too much pressure on themselves. After all, they're two of the three amigos from last year. maybe it will help that OTHERS won the game tonight. They don;t have to do it all. They just need to be like Battier - bring it, communicate, find who's hot, etc.

Yeah, Mason may not have DOMINATED - But, he gave us a legit, dangerous inside presence - AND, it was, basically, his first big game. He's just scratching the surface. If he looked at tonight and realizes how great he can be, Mason can bring a whole new dimension to the team and make it nearly impossible to stop.

[Dukefan4Life]

Well we won the game but I know we can play better so thats the good thing. I didnt like the fact we turned the ball over so much, and at times we looked a little lazy on defense. The thing about this years team is i wonder who our "glue guy" is going to be. Lance was the guy last year and i think we will need someone to be the lock down defender each game we play this season. Mason was a monster! i think he will continue to improve with every one else! Gooooooooooooo Duke!

[Newton_14]

Mason was good, but not nearly as good as his stat line. He was out of position on defense several times in the first half, and despite a few nice blocks he struggled to stop Gardner, Butler, and Crowley from scoring. Look at their stat lines... Mason did not dominate on both ends the way everyone is claiming.


Marquette's Starting Centers:
Otule- 4 points 3 Rebounds
Gardner- 9 Points 4 rebounds

Mason Plumlee- 25 points 12 Rebounds 5 Blocks 4 Assists

And you feel Mason "struggled to stop" those guys? And why are you counting the Crowder kids stats? Was Mason responsible for guarding all 3 of them?

Mason made a couple of mistakes. He had 3 TO's. But the kid put the team on his back and carried them to a win they do not get without him. He absolutely dominated the paint when it came to crunch time and the game was on the line. Not sure why anyone would want to criticize the kid after a performance like that.

[BD80]

... it seemed to me we played a whole lot of small tonight, even to the extent of playing Kyle and the shrimps for the last couple minutes. I'll wait until I see the stats before forming a final opinion, but I thought the small lineup didn't play such great defense, except in the brief stretch right after the strategic timeout. It was odd, because I thought Miles and Ryan played pretty well in the first half, but I didn't notice them playing so much in the second half. ...

Seth didn't get in much either. So much for developing that bench, huh? But I am only partially serious. It seemed to me that 5 players got most of the PT, just like Coach K tends to do - the best players play. I think part of that is that he wants his best players to be READY to play big minutes when the tournament comes around. Considering that this is a back-to-back, it will be a good test for those five players.

Mason was fantastic, but I don't think he will be ready to rise to this level consistently until the end of the year. I particularly think he will struggle tomorrow night, because he will get some serious defense "attention" and because he played close to 30 minutes and must bounce back tomorrow.

I think this was a great game for the Devils, a LOT of teaching moments, a nice gut check and response, and the birth of a post threat. A great game indeed.

Until Mason makes free throws, you will ALWAYS see Kyle and 4 shrimps at the end of close games.

[quota]

The question was asked several times toward the end of the game and post-game, "When was the last time a Duke big man had a game" like Mason Plumlee's game tonight.

Well, I scoured GoDuke Stats Geek, and the last one I found was clear back in <gulp> the VCU game in 2007. McBob scored 22 points and pulled down 11 rebounds in that one.

Previous to that game, Shelden scored 30 and 8 in a game against Memphis the season before, and had a 29 point, 18 rebound game against Southern the same year.

So, quite an impressive performance based on the last few seasons for Mason. Nicely done.

[Devil07]

Mason was fantastic, but I don't think he will be ready to rise to this level consistently until the end of the year. I particularly think he will struggle tomorrow night, because he will get some serious defense "attention" and because he played close to 30 minutes and must bounce back tomorrow.

I'm inclined to agree, I'm not sure that Mason's ready to put it all together consistently. That being said, a performance like this is absolutely great for the rest of the team since now teams will have to actually give him serious attention. Having a post threat that other teams must account for makes us even harder to stop. One game is just that, but if Mason can continue to play at a high level that should really open up things for our perimeter.

On the whole, I was very encouraged by what I saw tonight. Sure the game wasn't pretty, but I absolutely love seeing Mason step it up and I was happy with how we responded when challenged. This was the first time our guys had to deal with adversity and although there's a lot to work on, I liked they way we stepped up the intensity and never let the game get seriously close again.

[uh_no]

Seth didn't get in much either. So much for developing that bench, huh?

marquette has good bench defense....

[delfrio]

About time we see a big guy not put the ball on the floor as soon as he gets the ball. Mason was terrific at keeping the ball high and getting it up quickly while remaining under control. I really don't like that turn around fade away he shows though he finally got one to go down, hope he doesn't fall in love with it.


Generally this might be right, but Mason still brought the ball down low several times, actually crouching before shooting. I still think he might have scored on these, but it didn't look good. Miles put the ball on the floor once and it was immediately stolen. It's definitely something to still work on. I'm sure that will happen though if the Plumlees become more of an offensive focus for the team (which I don't think will happen quite yet).

[Kedsy]

Until Mason makes free throws, you will ALWAYS see Kyle and 4 shrimps at the end of close games.

I don't know. Why not Kyle and Ryan and three shrimps?

[Hermy-own]

"No sense of urgency"

Exactly. Here's what I saw:

Laziness on defense - allowing Marquette to run down the court faster than us,
some bad rotation and hustle to defend the 3 point arc.

Turnovers - Nolan Smith. He made lots of bad decisions and bad passes in this game. Was looking for his own shot, made some bad decisions on his drives, plenty of silly mistakes while handling the ball as well. We are better with Irving handling the ball. Irving also turned it over, but I felt his overall decision making was better.

Rebounding - Mostly good. Often the ball was in our hands coming down, and then got slapped away, leading to Marquette ball or a held ball. Also, perhaps no one on this team has the physicality and edge that Zoubs and Lance had. Although Mason was a beast today.

I'm not sure why so many people seem willing to take a bad game as a good sign. Hopefully this game will galvanize the perimeter players to be sharper and work harder, but there's no guarantee of that. While I was very impressed with the post game today, and especially Miles, I was disappointed in some the shot selection, urgency, and leadership by Kyle and Nolan. Coach K was certainly fired up at the team. If this leads to better play next game, great, but it certainly shows we aren't invulnerable.

Just a note, I still love watching the team. I just hope we can improve our offensive efficiency and rebounding. I'm sure the defense will improve from this game, as will the effort.

[Duvall]

I don't know. Why not Kyle and Ryan and three shrimps?

Kelly can shoot free throws?

[Kedsy]

One game is just that, but if Mason can continue to play at a high level that should really open up things for our perimeter.

People say this a lot, but I'm not sure I agree. Do you think teams will really double team Mason when Kyle, Kyrie, Nolan, and Andre are on the floor? Especially if Mason is setting up down low and not setting screens, and there isn't a second big on the floor to set screens, I see Mason playing like he did today actually slowing our perimeter game down. I don't know if I'm right, but that's the feeling I have. We'll have to watch and see what happens as the season wears on.

[Kedsy]

Rebounding - Mostly good. Often the ball was in our hands coming down, and then got slapped away, leading to Marquette ball or a held ball. Also, perhaps no one on this team has the physicality and edge that Zoubs and Lance had.

Last season at this time of year people were making the exact same complaint about Z and Lance: that they were coming down with rebounds and having the ball get slapped away. I have nothing bad to say about the way we rebounded tonight.

[dukebluelemur]

How depressing is it to know Knight was in the building and we had to listen to Vitale... sigh.

[Kedsy]

Kelly can shoot free throws?

He's adequate. He's certainly better than Miles or Mason.

[DukeDevil]

In the discussion of the PG play and Mason's coming out party...I've yet to see anyone mention one particular amazing play.

The Marquette 3 on 1 fast break against Singler where he drew a charge. Did anyone's eyes seem to see 31 on that jersey instead of 12?

[Bob Green]

How depressing is it to know Knight was in the building and we had to listen to Vitale... sigh.

Vitale is why there is a "Mute" button on your TV.

[moonpie23]

How depressing is it to know Knight was in the building and we had to listen to Vitale... sigh.

hey, speaking of that.....i was listening to the radio....where has bob harris been ???

[AlaskanAssassin]

How depressing is it to know Knight was in the building and we had to listen to Vitale... sigh.

Am I the only one who likes Dick Vitale? Why would Duke fans' dislike him when he mostly compliments and shares his passion for Duke? Shoot, I'd wish he talk more, more the merrier!

[ajgoodfella7]

Am I the only one who likes Dick Vitale? Why would Duke fans' dislike him when he mostly compliments and shares his passion for Duke? Shoot, I'd wish he talk more, more the merrier!

He just goes off on too many different tangents to enjoy. He spends way too much time talking about things going on everywhere but the actual game he is supposed to be calling.

[deezl]

Am I the only one who likes Dick Vitale? Why would Duke fans' dislike him when he mostly compliments and shares his passion for Duke? Shoot, I'd wish he talk more, more the merrier!

It was only when he did the same for UNC, I can never understand how you can be for both sides. EVER. He's no Gus Johnson but, then again, who is?

[Devil07]

People say this a lot, but I'm not sure I agree. Do you think teams will really double team Mason when Kyle, Kyrie, Nolan, and Andre are on the floor? Especially if Mason is setting up down low and not setting screens, and there isn't a second big on the floor to set screens, I see Mason playing like he did today actually slowing our perimeter game down. I don't know if I'm right, but that's the feeling I have. We'll have to watch and see what happens as the season wears on.

That's certainly a possibility and I can see why you'd think that. My guess is not so much that defenses will double down on Mason but rather that they will be very wary of cheating off of him. Moreover, his emergence would give other teams something to think about when game planning how to defend us. I guess it really depends on what we do with Mason. If he's just setting up camp in the post then I'm inclined to agree with you. However, if he's actively setting screens and moving within the offense, then I see other teams having to consistently account for him as another way for us to make defenses stay honest. With the kind of weapons we have, having 5 threats on the court at a time presents serious problems for even the best defenses. I guess it just depends on how we utilize Mason's presence. I'm not sure if I'm right either, but I certainly look forward to seeing how it develops.

[WiJoe]

Am I the only one who likes Dick Vitale?

I presume his wife likes him, but maybe it's just the $$$. Aside from that, not so many.

[Dukefan1.0]

I felt we just tried to force the game. Examples being Kyle driving in the lane with four defensive players in the pain, or Kyrie trying to thread the needle on a pass that would lead to a turnover. These two were not the only ones almost everybody on the court did one, or the other. At least we had Mason dominate the inside tonight.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

Mason was good, but not nearly as good as his stat line. He was out of position on defense several times in the first half, and despite a few nice blocks he struggled to stop Gardner, Butler, and Crowley from scoring. Look at their stat lines... Mason did not dominate on both ends the way everyone is claiming.


YES YES YES! I was not going to bother commenting but since you did, I just want to second that emotion.

Watching this team play defense can't help but remind you how special last year's team was. No one should expect this young team finding its way to play that kind of defense so that comment was not a slam on this year's team but rather a shout out to Lance, Zoubs, and Scheyer wherever they may roam.

[LSanders]

Looks like it's gonna be K-State.

Should be an interesting match-up:

- Young - loaded with FR and SO

- Guard Oriented - Jacob Pullen - 6'0" SR
Rodney MacGruder - 6'3"SO
Nick Russell - 6'4" SO
Will Spradling - 6'3" FR (bench)

- Post - Freddy Asprilla - 6'10" JR
Wally Judge - 6'9" SO

With 4:30 to go ... 10 Assists - 20 TOs

Kyle at the three is gonna be a huge problem for them (as with most teams).

[gumbomoop]

Until Mason makes free throws, you will ALWAYS see Kyle and 4 shrimps at the end of close games.



I don't know. Why not Kyle and Ryan and three shrimps?


As I have a dog in this hunt, I want to comment, hoping to clarify by virtue of specificity. In my post a week ago [on Phase I thread], I hypothesized the following scenario.....


.... take this as a realistic scenario: Duke up by 6, 53 seconds to go, coming out of timeout with the ball, full shot clock, Duke's in the bonus. In this circumstance, seems almost certain that K will have the guys hold it until shot clock shows about 10 seconds. But it seems almost equally certain that the opposing coach will have his team go for a steal immediately, but failing that, foul pretty quickly. That is, it's highly likely that this becomes, for Duke on O, a simple matter of made free throws. Given this, K will use, I think, KS, NS, KI, and his 2 best FT shooters from other 7 guys. Now, as I said in my original post, if RK [or, for that matter, either MP] is better than - maybe even just approximately as good as - either SC or AD, then that small lineup isn't plausible, and the point is moot.

But - again given specific, but realistic, game situations - at the very very end of a close game, when Duke is definitely going to be fouled, and when making FTs is a near-guarantee of victory, when the opposing team must shoot 3s [thus obviating the need for 2 bigs on D], I'm saying K might go real small.... If the single crucial thing is making FTs [well, good ball handling and experience, too, but that's why KI, KS, and NS are constants], maybe we'll see real small lineup.

Not for anything like significant minutes; only in very specific, but perfectly plausible, situations; and only if SC and AD are clearly better FT guys than RK.

....it's Kyle and the Pips. For the last 53 seconds.

.... but little did I know that K would use this lineup so early in the season. Anyhow, sure enough, given a very specific situation that was coincidentally fairly close to the imaginary scenario I envisioned, K did use Kyle and the Pips for the last 40.1 seconds. Interestingly, at the dead ball on the first FT, Mason - not Ryan - was at the scorer's table, but, alas, Seth missed, so Mason was called back to the bench.

Now the strategy "failed" in the sense that 3 of the Pips [Seth, Kyrie, and Nolan] each missed the front end of a 1-and-1. Ugh. But the point is, K's strategy in this very specific situation was in fact Kyle and the Pips.

I wouldn't go as far as BD80 - "always" - and think Kedsy here raises [as in a skeptical response to my original post last week] a reasonable alternative, especially as it gives Duke that second big, but with a better FT guy [we think] than Mason.

So it will be interesting - really - to see whether the "failure" of the strategy will cause K to rethink this dicey lineup. Really. Because we know K likes to hold the ball in last few minutes when leading by a good-but-not-quite-foolproof number of points.

A final point: it's Kyle and the Pips [not shrimps]. Kyle, most of you are perhaps unaware, has an amazing, and quite delightful, collection of old vinyl albums by Gladys Knight and the Pips.

[Kedsy]

Now the strategy "failed" in the sense that 3 of the Pips [Seth, Kyrie, and Nolan] each missed the front end of a 1-and-1. Ugh. But the point is, K's strategy in this very specific situation was in fact Kyle and the Pips.

I wouldn't go as far as BD80 - "always" - and think Kedsy here raises [as in a skeptical response to my original post last week] a reasonable alternative, especially as it gives Duke that second big, but with a better FT guy [we think] than Mason.

Obviously K liked your idea. ;) My problem before with this strategy was that "Kyle and the Pips" is not one of our best defensive lineups. And I still feel that way. Putting aside the missed free throws, this configuration gave up 4 points in 40 seconds, and it could have been 7 points if Marquette hadn't missed a 3-pointer (that I don't remember as being particularly hotly contested or anything). So, personally, I'd like to see a big man in there instead of the fourth pip, but if K disagrees I'll obviously have to live with it.

[gumbomoop]

My problem before with this strategy was that "Kyle and the Pips" is not one of our best defensive lineups. And I still feel that way. Putting aside the missed free throws, this configuration gave up 4 points in 40 seconds, and it could have been 7 points if Marquette hadn't missed a 3-pointer (that I don't remember as being particularly hotly contested or anything). So, personally, I'd like to see a big man in there instead of the fourth pip, but if K disagrees I'll obviously have to live with it.

It's possible that this issue is of limited interest to most posters [at least after midnight], but I hope others will chime in tomorrow, not to call me, much less K, an idiot, but because it's a pretty significant strategy-decision. Given K's demonstrated hold-ball strategy at game's end, who's to be on the court is very important.

Kyle and the Pips is definitely a dicey lineup, and as you said last week, no way K uses it for even 3 or 4 minutes. It's imaginable, to me, that K would use it with 2 minutes left, Duke ball, and, say, a 12-point lead; or with a minute left, Duke ball, and a 7-point lead. But it's borderline dicey in either of these 2 scenarios.

I wonder whether tonight's [actually last night's] "failure" will cause K to use the 4 Pips only when Duke's in the double-bonus.

[ElSid]

Vitale is tough to listen to but in pregame comments he hyped Mason over and over to the point where I thought to myself, "yeah, but he hasn't been great so far". And then...Mason played great. Vitale is annoying but knows a few things. I did think he was badly scaring that little boy when he was schilling his new kid's books that actually talk...sigh. Sign of the apocalypse. Dick Vitale's talking childrens books.

It's well established at this point that turnovers were one of the main problems. Especially frustrating watching Nolan try to force so much. Also a lot of slipping and sliding. Marquette had "active hands", especially around Miles?

Thought we were going to blow this open and probably so did the players, so they shifted it down a gear instead of sticking with the intensity. Still early. Tomorrow night will be a fun late one.

[Kedsy]

It's possible that this issue is of limited interest to most posters [at least after midnight], but I hope others will chime in tomorrow, not to call me, much less K, an idiot, but because it's a pretty significant strategy-decision.

I hope you don't think I was calling anybody an idiot?

[ElSid]

It's possible that this issue is of limited interest to most posters [at least after midnight], but I hope others will chime in tomorrow, not to call me, much less K, an idiot, but because it's a pretty significant strategy-decision. Given K's demonstrated hold-ball strategy at game's end, who's to be on the court is very important.

Kyle and the Pips is definitely a dicey lineup, and as you said last week, no way K uses it for even 3 or 4 minutes. It's imaginable, to me, that K would use it with 2 minutes left, Duke ball, and, say, a 12-point lead; or with a minute left, Duke ball, and a 7-point lead. But it's borderline dicey in either of these 2 scenarios.

I wonder whether tonight's [actually last night's] "failure" will cause K to use the 4 Pips only when Duke's in the double-bonus.

hardly idiocy! your comments proved to be quite prescient.

[Spam Filter]

We played we in stretches, but had too many careless turnovers. Even so if we hit our free throws we win this game by double figures.

The only real area of concern is our post low post defense.

Last year it was near impossible to score buckets against us down low. Zoubek didn't block many shots but he bothered every attempt down low and made it very difficult for the other team to finish against us. Tonight it seemed that every time they got the ball down low they were able to finish the play.

We have to get better at that, as that might be the Achilles' heel of our defense this year.

[gumbomoop]

I hope you don't think I was calling anybody an idiot?

Not at all, but if you called me an idiot, I wouldn't take offense. [In fact I'd probably think, "Hmmm, maybe Kedsy's got a point there."] I was using the phrase loosely, colloquially, to imagine what one or 2 folks out there in poster-land might think of either this admittedly dicey lineup thing, or my somewhat demented fascination with K's every end-game nuance. But I could defend my, and certainly K's, "idiocy," if challenged.

Roy Williams? That'd be tougher, just now.

[Cali-Duke]

Am I the only one who likes Dick Vitale? Why would Duke fans' dislike him when he mostly compliments and shares his passion for Duke? Shoot, I'd wish he talk more, more the merrier!

I'm with you. After we won the championship last year, he called out all the other announcers for hating on us every step of the way even though we had won where we needed to, played hard/blue collar basketball, etc. Personally, I dislike the other announcers like Hubert Davis and Digger Phelps more than Vitale. All they did was talk about how Scheyer, Zoubs, and Lance were hindrances and reasons for our downfall. And now at the start of this season, they keep on talking about how great players they were. I can't stand hypocrites. At least Vitale is consistently positive.

[gam7]

Until Mason makes free throws, you will ALWAYS see Kyle and 4 shrimps at the end of close games.

I'm actually not too worried about our game-on-ice lineup. I agree that when the end-of-game fouling begins, we'll probably see a lot of Irving, Smith, Singler, Dawkins, Curry. I know Curry and Irving missed the end-of-game foul shots tonight, but I am confident in this group for the long run. Curry seemed uncomfortable to me all night (and his discomfort was confirmed by his +/- figures), except for the 3 he hit, so I wasn't shocked to see him miss his FT. As for Irving, this was the first FT he has shot in that situation. He'll be fine going forward.

[juise]

I was only able to make it home from work for the second half and it seems like people have hit on most of the major subject lines. There are a few things that I didn't see mentioned specifically (though I may have missed it).

One of the most impressive plays I saw tonight went mostly unnoticed it seemed. I loved Kyrie's breakaway pass to Mason (who jammed) in the second half. The angle of the pass was about as hard as it gets (vertical). He made the pass left handed in stride and placed it perfectly. I know there wasn't much pressure on him, but it was still very impressive to me.

The sequence that made me want to scream was the back-to-back strips on Miles in the post. I believe the first was after a nice entry pass where he had great position on a smaller defender. The next one may have been after a rebound. He put the ball on the floor and gave away the opportunity. I'm definitely not down on Miles as a whole. He's a big, strong, athletic guy with a ton of talent... it just seems like he forgets sometimes.

[gam7]

I was only able to make it home from work for the second half and it seems like people have hit on most of the major subject lines. There are a few things that I didn't see mentioned specifically (though I may have missed it).

One of the most impressive plays I saw tonight went mostly unnoticed it seemed. I loved Kyrie's breakaway pass to Mason (who jammed) in the second half. The angle of the pass was about as hard as it gets (vertical). He made the pass left handed in stride and placed it perfectly. I know there wasn't much pressure on him, but it was still very impressive to me.

The sequence that made me want to scream was the back-to-back strips on Miles in the post. I believe the first was after a nice entry pass where he had great position on a smaller defender. The next one may have been after a rebound. He put the ball on the floor and gave away the opportunity. I'm definitely not down on Miles as a whole. He's a big, strong, athletic guy with a ton of talent... it just seems like he forgets sometimes.

I respectfully submit that the most impressive play was Nolan's pass ahead to Mason who jumped to catch the pass and laid it off to Singler before hitting the ground, and Singler finished with a reverse lay-up.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

Not sure if anyone else noticed this but after Mason's 25 point performance tonight (last night now) we (Duke) now have 6 players averaging over 10 ppg! To me this just souunds crazy good! Am I right or is this more typical for a top ranked team. Nolan, Kyle, Kyrie, Seth, Andre, and Mason with Kelly around 6 ppg I believe.

[juise]

I respectfully submit that the most impressive play was Nolan's pass ahead to Mason who jumped to catch the pass and laid it off to Singler before hitting the ground, and Singler finished with a reverse lay-up.

Sounds nice. Was that in the second half? I didn't see it. Might have stepped out to help with baby duty.

[Oriole Way]

Just an awesome game by Mason. Hopefully this was a game he can use to bolster his confidence and elevate his overall production.

The turnovers were the biggest problem tonight, I thought Nolan in particular was extremely sloppy with both his decision-making and passing. However, given this was the first quality opponent in a road environment, the shaky play isn't too surprising, nor is it alarming.

I was disappointed to see Miles struggle, but does anyone else not think he might still be bothered by the dislocated finger? I believe I saw it wrapped up, and it certainly could have contributed to his dropped balls and poor handling.

I'm encouraged by Mason and Andre in particular really showing some aggressiveness and confidence in the second half when we needed buckets. I'm also encouraged by the balance this team has shown... in one game, Singler/Smith/Irving dominated the scoring. In another, those three struggled but the bench put up big numbers. In this game, Mason took near-total control of our offense at times, while the seniors put up decent numbers despite not playing their best.

I believe Coach K might need to change his starting lineup based on matchups. I think Dawkins might have been a better fit to start over Kelly tonight, since Marquette was pretty small and athletic. Against bigger (in the post), half court-oriented teams, Kelly or Miles (if he is healthy and playing well) might be the better way to go.

I'm really looking forward to the game tomorrow night. Kansas State certainly looked impressive tonight, despite struggling against easier previous opponents. Duke struggled tonight, but hopefully they got a little bit of a wakeup call. Michigan State struggled mightily against Chaminade, so it just goes to show that even the elite teams can be quite inconsistent in the early going. I won't be surprised if Duke loses tomorrow night, nor will I be surprised if they easily handle K State. Should be a fun game.

[Dsuke17]

What a game by Mason!! He looked so much more focused than previous 3 games. I thought Ryan also played very good in limited minitues. He was playing very good defense and hit good looking jumper. Putting three guard lineup on the floor opened up the room for Mason to control the paint but I would love to see Ryan on the floor more in second half. As bad as Miles looked on offensive end, I thought he played some good, aggressive defense in first half. All in all, I liked how our bigs played in the first real test. Let's see how our bigs perform against K-State.

As for guards play we need to take care of the ball when we attack. But I'm sure they are more than capable.

I'm impressed how Andre is playing this season. Good defense, good pump fake and drive and of course his trademark sweet jumper. He looks more confident.

There are many thing to like about Kyrie but one little thing I like about him is his rebounding. Although he got only two rebounds last night, coming into last night game, he was averaging 4rpg. His rebound and in closing minutes really impressed me.

[Saratoga2]

Am I the only one who likes Dick Vitale? Why would Duke fans' dislike him when he mostly compliments and shares his passion for Duke? Shoot, I'd wish he talk more, more the merrier!

A good guy but a terrible color man.

[MChambers]

Sounds nice. Was that in the second half? I didn't see it. Might have stepped out to help with baby duty.
Mason's catch in the air and pass to Kyle for the reverse layup was in the first half, when we were playing Globetrotters style. It was a very impressive play.

In all the excitement about Mason's points and rebounds, I think we are overlooking some very impressive passing by Mason and also the amazing fact that he played 32 minutes and had only 2 fouls. His defense still has a ways to go, but he did have some nice blocks.

[DukeDevil]

sigh. Sign of the apocalypse. Dick Vitale's talking childrens books.

I can't help but think of that kid being in his class later saying "okay BAY-B, you got your A's, your Bs...and you just CANNOT forget about your C's, they are just DOMINATING this alphabet this year!!!"

dunno why, that makes me chuckle.

I'm so proud of Mason's play...He still has a lot to work on but this HAS to help boost confidence for upcoming games.

[MChambers]

Besides being impressed by Mason's sudden emergence, I thought this was a fairly good performance by Duke. If we hit those three throws down the stretch, we win by double digits.

I thought Miles played pretty effectively in his limited minutes, although the turnovers are a concern. Still, looking at the +/- numbers, I think Miles is definitely exhibiting the Zoubek Effect and I expect consistent improvement from him over the course of the season.

The turnovers are a concern for the whole team, of course. But for the turnovers, we would have run away with the game.

I'm not worried about any of the flaws we saw last night. It's a young team, but very talented, and one that shows a lot of unselfishness and willingness to work on defense. I don't expect the team to be championship caliber in November and a loss or two now won't mean the world is coming to an end. Let's just sit back and enjoy the ride.

[lotusland]

I'm not sure what to take from this game. I'd probably watch it again if we didn't have another game tonight though. Obviously it was great to see Mason have a monster game scoring, rebounding and blocking shots. It seemed to come easily for him last night for some reason and his athleticism really stood out. Nolan had some bad TOs but also made some big baskets. Good things happen more than not when he’s aggressive going to the hole.

I’m one of the folks who expected to see Kyle play big minutes at the 4 but practically the whole 2nd half is not what I expected. There was plenty of good and bad during that stretch so it’s hard to draw any conclusions. I actually hope for a little deeper rotation than we saw in the second half. I wonder if playing the 5 with Kyle on the perimeter was a catalyst for Mason on offense? He definitely seemed to have more room to work down low. It doesn’t allow as much for his interior passing though. I loved the lob pass to Miles in the first half. I agree that Miles needs to work on being ready to receive the pass and go up when the guards penetrate. It’s a tough balance between getting rebounding position and being ready for a pass but he needs to have his hands up and be ready to go up strong.

Kyle is very good off the bounce from about 18 ft in when he dribbles to a spot and shoots. He’s not nearly as good when he tries to get all the way to the basket from outside the 3-pt line. For one thing he doesn’t seem to see the floor very well either missing open cutters or getting the ball poked loose by the help defense.

This was our first opportunity for pressure free throws at the end of a game so hopefully the guys settle down a bit tonight.

[sagegrouse]

How appropriate that it occurred with Christian Laettner in the house, having been being inducted Sunday into the National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame. IMHO (where the H is often silent) Mason's game was the most Laettneresque peformance of the past 18 years. It really looked like Mason was channeling #32.

sagegrouse

[Lord Ash]

I was glad to see Mason play well, even against a somewhat undersized team. I think what may have pleased me the most was seeing the team deliberately get it to him a few times in a row in crunch time; it was nice to see that attention to the "hot hand."

I was also interested in reading that a big reason that Kelly was starting was to enable Mason to play closer to the basket... with both Plumbros in there it was forcing Mason a little way from the basket, and undermining his "toughness."

[peterjswift]

I agree with the general assessment that the turnovers and missed FT were a big problem, but I think there were instances of "bad luck" that made this look worse than it is. First of all - the no-call when Singler got tackled and forced up a terrible three. That was not only a turnover, it also cost us 3 shots from the line. If this went the other way, we'd have one less TO, and probably two or three more made FTs...taking our average up to a still pathetic 60%

Not to mention KI taking at least one sticker slide, and Miles missing a pass because of a sticker slide (at least that's how I saw it). Get rid of those "bad luck" TOs and convert them into a few points, and the game wasn't even close.

As I recall, Nolan was also on the bad end of a "no call" at the offensive end and then on the bad end of a foul on the defensive end that could have generated another possession.

Of course, I suppose this happens to all teams and "bad luck" is probably going to have an impact on every game, but I still saw a larger than normal amount of it happening in the 2nd half of this game.

[Rudy]

I was disappointed to see Miles struggle, but does anyone else not think he might still be bothered by the dislocated finger? I believe I saw it wrapped up, and it certainly could have contributed to his dropped balls and poor handling.
I hope so. It's most likely still sore (I've had one of those) and is on his dominant, shooting hand. So, it likely affects his confidence in catching and gripping the ball, perhaps leading to the unnecessary dribble which lead to one turnover.

IMO, he needs to take a page from Zoubs' book: not worry about offense so much and concentrate on a needed role from him, i.e. defense, rebounding and finding the open man upon receipt of the ball. Double teams on Mason will most likely come from the second post defenseman, leaving our #4 either open or poised for an offensive rebound.

[gw67]

Some observations from last night’s game:

• Marquette is a nice team but nothing special; however, they do have perimeter players who can put the ball on the floor and either drive to the hoop or pass to players for open shots as the Devils provide help. This can be effective against Duke's deny defense.
• Marquette had several open looks from 3-point territory; however, they did not connect on a good % of them (4-20). The Devils need to put a hand in the face of 3-point shooters.
• I’ve watched two games and I really like Plumlee’s aggressive play this year. He needs to improve his free throw shooting (and I thought that Jordan Williams was a poor free throw shooter). Aside from rebounding, his most important asset may be shot blocking as opponents drive on Duke’s perimeter players.
• Singler has had a very average start to his senior year; whereas, Smith is hitting on all cylinders. He has always been a very good offensive player but he either didn’t have the vision or the inclination to look for teammates early in his career. That has changed and now the Devils start two point guards.
• Curry is an outstanding 3-point shooter but, based on a few observations, he appears to be a liability on defense.
• Singler, Smith, Plumlee and Irving played between 32 and 38 minutes last night. Unless there is a foul situation, it appears that they are the core of the team with some combination of Kelly, Dawkins, Plumlee and Curry getting the remaining minutes. Given Coach K’s preference for “small” lineups (based on my observations over the years), I expect the duo of Dawkins and Curry to garner the most minutes.
• Irving continues to play well although he had several turnovers last night against the first real defense he has faced. Comparisons with JWill as a frosh are probably legitimate.

gw67

[cwiley]

YES YES YES! I was not going to bother commenting but since you did, I just want to second that emotion.

Watching this team play defense can't help but remind you how special last year's team was. No one should expect this young team finding its way to play that kind of defense so that comment was not a slam on this year's team but rather a shout out to Lance, Zoubs, and Scheyer wherever they may roam.

My take on Mason was that he had been clearly instructed not to recreate the 15 minute foul-out from the Colgate game. He was trying very hard not to foul. As time goes on, hopefully he'll work at getting better defensive position and how to use his body more effectively without fouling.

[COYS]

This was a great win for the team, even if it was far from a great game by the team. As others have mentioned, the two standouts for me were Mason (duh) and Andre. Neither played mistake free ball, that's for sure. Mason's occasional positioning issues have already been documented. I thought Andre gambled for steels a little to much for my liking and his foul on a jump-shooter late in the game was a bad one. However, He was all over the court on defense. Played within himself on offense (how was that jumper he took when the guy was clearly hanging on his arm not a foul? I thought it was a smart move for him to take a shot once he realized the Marquette defender had him by the wrist. I didn't understand that at all . . . though perhaps I saw it incorrectly) and even had some nifty passes (3 assists in 21 minutes ain't bad for a guy who rarely racks up the assists). We really got to see his ability to explode in the open court on his steal/reverse layup. It's funny, he looks bigger on the court this year than last year, like he's 6'6'' rather than 6'4'', because of how he is playing.

In the pregame thread, I highlighted a few things I was going to focus on in this game. I think it's clear that Kyrie will be able to get around most defenders this year. While he wasn't able to get into the lane at will, he was still able to get there pretty frequently, even if it wasn't as automatic as it was against lesser competition. K mentioned in a postgame presser after the Miami game, I think, that Kyrie was still learning how to manage a 40 minute game. I thought this was apparent tonight. The half court offense was a little inconsistent. Despite Singler's 13 field goal attempts, I thought we failed to get him the ball enough . . . especially when we were running the slow-down offense in the last 4 minutes. I also thought the team (not just Kyrie) missed Singler open in the corner a few times. I think making sure the offense stays fluid and our most accomplish player continuously gets touches will be something for Kyrie to pay more attention to as he learns how to lead the offense for the entire game.

In terms of the rotation, we clearly saw what I think will continue to be our 8-man rotation. Given that the more experienced players were having trouble rotating on defense, this was not a game for Hairston, who despite his energy and effort, has been out of position quite a bit. I thought it was a bit of coaching genius, though, for K to throw Thornton into the game for the last minute of the first half. Not only was Tyler's defense superb, but it gave Marquette a different look, disrupted their offensive set, and saved Kyrie from getting any bad fouls at the close of the half.

The small-but-not-smallest lineup with Kyrie, Nolan, Andre, Kyle, and Mason played exceptionally well this game. However, the point differential per minute indicates that having two bigs plus Kyle was still a very effective lineup. Miles' turnovers were bad and he seems to have zero confidence on offense (dislocated finger may not help), but he just needs to put his head down and keep on keeping on. His rotations are still the best on the team and he is the strongest post player by far (I thought Mason allowed Otule and company to get position too deep in the paint . . . I think Miles may have been more effective because of his strength). Hopefully things will finally click for him. We will absolutely need him to play more than 9 minutes most nights.

I'm still a little concerned about our FTA/FGA ratio. Of course, it may not have mattered much last night because we couldn't hit from the stripe, anyway. If there something that is perhaps not ideal in Nolan's and Kyle's games, it's that they don't get to the line terribly often. I'd like to see us put them in position to get to the line (drives that start off of curls at the elbow rather than from the wing where the defender is more likely to bump them going into a shot). I'd also like to see Kyle post up some when he's at the 4 (although Mason was eating up the paint last night . . . and that was a very good thing!).

Anyway, bottom line is that I think many of the errors we made tonight are easily correctable. Nolan will play more within himself, I think. Hopefully we'll get Kyle involved a little bit more consistently (even if he's just getting a touch and then passing it, it's better than the stretch in the second half when we ignored him). Kyrie got his first taste of NCAA competition. In all honesty, we won't face many teams with the depth, quickness and athleticism in the backcourt that Marquette has. Not even K-State can match that. I expect to see a battle tonight against K-State, but I think the letup in intensity that we saw last night against Marquette will be a thing of the past. The team understands firsthand how hard they will have to play every night to win.

[superdave]

Obviously K liked your idea. ;) My problem before with this strategy was that "Kyle and the Pips" is not one of our best defensive lineups. And I still feel that way. Putting aside the missed free throws, this configuration gave up 4 points in 40 seconds, and it could have been 7 points if Marquette hadn't missed a 3-pointer (that I don't remember as being particularly hotly contested or anything). So, personally, I'd like to see a big man in there instead of the fourth pip, but if K disagrees I'll obviously have to live with it.

I can see Coach K subbing Seth in on offense in late game situations and either Miles or Mason to play D, assuming there's a dead ball.

I like the idea of Kyrie and Nolan out at mid court, Kyle in the middle and Seth/Andre or one of those two and a big below the foul line. That's a potent spread offense. And yes, people, the spread is here to stay - the math works.

As for our best defensive lineup, I'm still looking for our bigs to play their man straight up once the post is fed, move their feet and force a tough shot without fouling. If they develop that, we'll go to another level defensively. I thought a lot of Mason's blocks last night were more or less in recovery mode after his guy got a step on him.

[roywhite]

How appropriate that it occurred with Christian Laettner in the house, having been being inducted Sunday into the National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame. IMHO (where the H is often silent) Mason's game was the most Laettneresque peformance of the past 18 years. It really looked like Mason was channeling #32.sagegrouse

Well, maybe in most ways. Certainly not from the FT line.

Christian always had a great looking stroke from the FT line; don't recall that he ever air-balled a FT like Mason did last night.

I'd love to see Mason shoot 60% from the FT line, but what a terrific performance in other areas.

[trinity92]

People say this a lot, but I'm not sure I agree. Do you think teams will really double team Mason when Kyle, Kyrie, Nolan, and Andre are on the floor? Especially if Mason is setting up down low and not setting screens, and there isn't a second big on the floor to set screens, I see Mason playing like he did today actually slowing our perimeter game down. I don't know if I'm right, but that's the feeling I have. We'll have to watch and see what happens as the season wears on.

Yes-- teams will really double team Mason, or any player, if he becomes a consistent threat to score 20+ points in single coverage. We have to remember that our lack of a dominant big man (and I'm not even close to saying that's what Mason is at this point) over the last 6 years or so may have twisted our idea of what a big is supposed to do in our system. The idea that Mason scoring 20+ on a regular basis will hurt our team offense because it will take him away from where he truly belongs on the perimeter setting screens seems truly perverse to me.

Also, keep in mind that Kyle will usually be on the floor with Mason-- we're not going to play Mason and the 4 shrimps very often, so your fear of there not being another big out there will rarely come true. I love Kyle as a screener, b/c unlike our bigs over the last bunch of years, he becomes truly dangerous rolling off that screen.

[timmy c]

My take on Mason was that he had been clearly instructed not to recreate the 15 minute foul-out from the Colgate game. He was trying very hard not to foul. As time goes on, hopefully he'll work at getting better defensive position and how to use his body more effectively without fouling.

Mason’s defensive position will improve as he gets more consistent minutes. 32 minutes of action allowed him to find some rhythm on the offensive end. Mason will figure it out on the defensive end eventually. Mason said it best in his post-game interview, “Obviously there is some room for improvement.”

[superdave]

• Singler, Smith, Plumlee and Irving played between 32 and 38 minutes last night. Unless there is a foul situation, it appears that they are the core of the team with some combination of Kelly, Dawkins, Plumlee and Curry getting the remaining minutes. Given Coach K’s preference for “small” lineups (based on my observations over the years), I expect the duo of Dawkins and Curry to garner the most minutes.

Mason played a ton of minutes last night because he was the hot hand. If he was not dominating the other team, the big man minutes would be more evenly spread. Also, if we go with a bigger lineup, then the guard's minutes will be more evenly spread. As Doug Gottlieb said last night, Duke is two completely different teams based on whether Singler is playing at the 3 or the 4 (and the minutes will be spread around according to which Duke lineup is most advantageous that night).

[COYS]

Mason played a ton of minutes last night because he was the hot hand. If he was not dominating the other team, the big man minutes would be more evenly spread. Also, if we go with a bigger lineup, then the guard's minutes will be more evenly spread. As Doug Gottlieb said last night, Duke is two completely different teams based on whether Singler is playing at the 3 or the 4 (and the minutes will be spread around according to which Duke lineup is most advantageous that night).

This is a very good point. Mason forced K to keep him in the game. I don't think we can glean too much regarding the rotation from last night except that we will primarily play 8 deep as long as there is no foul trouble. And out of those 8, 6 are averaging double figure scoring. Opposing defense will constantly be adjusting to different but equally potent Duke lineups.

[CharlestonDevil]

Duke played poorly in 2 areas last night:

1) Defensive Intensity: The effort was not consistent and switching on ball screens seemed to give the whole team trouble. I was suprised to see how poorly the guards rotated and the bigs got in the way.

2) Guards on offense: TO's (obviously), but they are definitely still trying to find their rhythm as a unit. They tend to play too fast at times or force the ball too far in the middle (Kyrie freshman mistakes).

I am not worried in the slightest however b/c I know who coaches our team and I know what his specialties are: getting a consistent effort on defense and using talented guards in an up tempo system. Question is, will they make those changes in a 24 hr span?

[elvis14]

A few observations about last night's game:
Several times, especially in the first half we looked ready to run away with the game and just didn't. Some of this was turnovers, some of it missed shots, etc.. But I like the fact that we were that close to blowing out a quality opponent in our first tough game.
We complain about the MP's picking up cheap fouls (and rightly so, they do). What struck me last night was that one of the things that fueled the Marquette comeback was a bunch of no calls. When we play games where soft fouls are called, we adjust. Last night, soft, hard, blatent fouls were not called and it took us some time to adjust. It took me some time to stop yelling at the TV but I don't think that actually effected play....this time. Once our guys made the adjustment, we build our lead back up and played right into victory lane (and parked next to Jimmy Johnson!).
I loved that Mason got it going so well and I really loved that K recognized the situation and started feeding MP2 the ball. That was great stuff.
I can't wait to see who steps up against K-State tonight. Seems like every game we have different guys stepping up and I'm lovin' that!
I think last night our freshman learned what it means when people say that Duke gets everyone's best shot. I also think the game will be a good reminder for the upper-classmen. I bet Nolan and Kyle will get it done tonight.
I'm one of the people that still likes Dickie V BABY!
I'd love to see MP1 and Ryan have good games tonight. I just think it would be good for their confidence.
The 10pm start time tonight is great. I can get my kids to be and just watch the game without interruption!

[gw67]

Mason played a ton of minutes last night because he was the hot hand. If he was not dominating the other team, the big man minutes would be more evenly spread. Also, if we go with a bigger lineup, then the guard's minutes will be more evenly spread. As Doug Gottlieb said last night, Duke is two completely different teams based on whether Singler is playing at the 3 or the 4 (and the minutes will be spread around according to which Duke lineup is most advantageous that night).

dave,

You may be right that big man minutes will be spread but from the two games I've watched, Mason Plumlee has clearly stood out compared to his brother and Kelly. From what I've seen over the years, Coach K plays his best players the most minutes in competitive games regardless of how much depth he has. Mason Plumlee, Singler, Smith and Irving are the best players on this team, IMO, and they will get the most minutes. The substitution pattern will probably change from game to game based on the opponent, the performance of individual players and foul situations. All bets are off in runaways.

Just my thoughts. It will be fun watching the team and individual players develop.

gw67

[timmy c]

dave,

You may be right that big man minutes will be spread but from the two games I've watched, Mason Plumlee has clearly stood out compared to his brother and Kelly. From what I've seen over the years, Coach K plays his best players the most minutes in competitive games regardless of how much depth he has. Mason Plumlee, Singler, Smith and Irving are the best players on this team, IMO, and they will get the most minutes. The substitution pattern will probably change from game to game based on the opponent, the performance of individual players and foul situations. All bets are off in runaways.

Just my thoughts. It will be fun watching the team and individual players develop.

gw67

This. Mason earned K’s trust last night. He made a statement that the rest of the team will respect going forward. I expect that trust will translate into more success, more patience - when he makes mistakes - and more playing time in the future. Kelly and MP1 will have to compete for PT. Right now, Mason is king of the hill. I hope his elevated play will challenge the other front court players to step up. If Duke gets some synergy… look out!

[watzone]

http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/11/bdn-goes-1-on-1-with-mason-plumlee/ 1 on 1 post game with Mason Plumlee after his career outing.

[Finnerator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nkxNzgWWrQ In case you guys haven't seen it.

[superdave]

This. Mason earned K’s trust last night. He made a statement that the rest of the team will respect going forward. I expect that trust will translate into more success, more patience - when he makes mistakes - and more playing time in the future. Kelly and MP1 will have to compete for PT. Right now, Mason is king of the hill. I hope his elevated play will challenge the other front court players to step up. If Duke gets some synergy… look out!

Two points on the big men:

First, I dont see Mason taking off after last night and not looking back. He's going to have some ups and downs. I do see his offense being more consistent imemdiately, but his down games will likely be due to fouls or bad matchups on D. He's still a sophmore who is now getting his first taste of starter minutes.

Second, it sounds like folks think in the K State pre-game thread that it might be more advantageous for us to go big tonight. So last night's substitution patters wont match tonights. Again, we're two very different teams; big or small.

I see Coach K exploiting matchups more and more since he became Olympic coach and this year's roster is built for that.

[dball]

The question was asked several times toward the end of the game and post-game, "When was the last time a Duke big man had a game" like Mason Plumlee's game tonight.

Well, I scoured GoDuke Stats Geek, and the last one I found was clear back in <gulp> the VCU game in 2007. McBob scored 22 points and pulled down 11 rebounds in that one.

Previous to that game, Shelden scored 30 and 8 in a game against Memphis the season before, and had a 29 point, 18 rebound game against Southern the same year.

So, quite an impressive performance based on the last few seasons for Mason. Nicely done.

Miles had 19 pts 14 rebounds earlier this year (last season) against Wake.

[ncexnyc]

This is the first game that I was able to watch live during the actual broadcast. Since the game started late on ESPN2, I went with the radio commentary and aside from the fact that the TV had a slight delay it was an overall solid experience.

Some comments on the actual game:
1. Very impressed with how Andre has played this year.
2. Loved Mason's game tonight, but I've got to see it more often. I'm sure we all remember the Wake game last year.
3. Free Throw shooting has me worried.
4. Some silly turnovers, several which could have been prevented with a healthy dose of stickum on the hands:D

All in all a solid effort and as others have already said, there isn't anything wrong with this team that can't be fixed.

[COYS]

All in all a solid effort and as others have already said, there isn't anything wrong with this team that can't be fixed.

This might be the single best summation of the game last night. Hopefully we'll start fixing a lot of that stuff tonight!

[dball]

Miles had 19 pts 14 rebounds earlier this year (last season) against Wake.

Not to mention Zoubs with 16/17 in 22 minutes against MD

[COYS]

Not to mention Zoubs with 16/17 in 22 minutes against MD

And this also doesn't count Kyle as a big when he was playing the 4/5 in 2008 and 2009, which I think is a mistake. If we include Kyle, then we've had plenty of virtuoso performances out of our front court. That being said, well done Mason! Welcome to the big time.

[Billy Dat]

After reading through the whole thread, the points I agree with most are the well deserved praise for Mason, the recognition of Andre's emergence and the needs-improvement defense. Here are a couple of expansions on other points:

-I felt much more comfortable with the ball in Kyrie's hands than the ball in Nolan's hands. Nolan does seem to be a much more natural 2 who is most effective catching and moving than trying to initiate the offense. While I think they both get into the lane easily, Kyrie seems better at keeping control for that extra half second to allow the defense to commit and then is deft at either finishing or hitting the open man. His two drives last night came at key junctures and he basically drove on a set defense, got to the rim and finished. Other times, he made the same drive and made sweet passes for 3s or to the big men. We'll see what happens tonight. If I were Frank Martin, I sick Pullen on him just to see if he's up to the challenge.

-Expanding on the point made about Kyle's drives from the top of the key. This is an area he has always struggled with. I find his drives much more effective if he is isolated on the wing. That being said, do we think he's better off playing more of a JJ-running-off-screens game or a triple threat shoot-drive-dish game? I know he wants to develop that face-up game, but it needs work. I guess he has the freedom to do what the defense gives him and that aspect of his game will develop over the course of the season.

-A few times, the TV coverage missed the start of plays, but in one instance Ryan Kelly threw an excellent entry pass from near half court to Mason. There are a lot of intriguing possibilities for that combo to work a little inside/outside action and I hope we continue to develop that part of our game. Mason has shown a passing knack, too, and I like the potential for him redirecting those entry passes to our 3 point marksmen on the weak side and on top of the key.

-6'7" slasher/shooter Jimmy Butler gave us all kinds of problems yesterday. Kyle is going to draw that type of defensive assignment quite often, but it was a reminder that Lance was a heck of a stopper against guys like that.

[theAlaskanBear]

I thought it was a good, gutty win by the Blue Devils. At half-time you could just tell it was going to be a hard, scrappy second half. Our boys stood up to the punches.

First of all, I thought Nolan played carelessly with the ball. Some bad decisions/bad passes. Same with Singler when he tried to drive into the center of the lane with all the D collapsing on him. Singler also took some quick shots. All-in-all I don't think we valued the ball and possession as much as we should have in the early-mid game. That said I wasn't too concerned with Irving's turnovers -- one was that stupid sticker-slip, another a double dribble caused by slapped hand.

Andre played great. Even though he didn't do a lot of scoring he seems to always be doing good things on the court -- making the right pass, playing defense, etc. I would like to see him get more shots in the offense though. I thought Irving played well. He had some very big drives where he got to the bucket for layups and it looked effortless. He also did a good job distributing to some of the bigs down low where some good passes were fumbled or stripped by the bigs.

I was surprised Ryan didn't play more in the second half. He seemed to have a very positive impact on the game early on. Mason: what more can I say about him that hasnt been said. Big, gutty game when we needed it from him.

However, if there is one thing I have learned about college BB, it's that big men take a long time to develop, and are way more inconsistent than guards. I think Mason will develop into a force by the end of the year -- but I except some rough games in the meantime.

I am excited about the K-State game. A true challenge. I don't know what to expect, except a home-court advantage for KState. The refs called the Marquette game pretty loose, I am scared that they will let Kansas play rough -- leading to a game with low shot% and a lot of blocked shots and turnovers. Either way, I am sooo excited for tonight!! LETS GO DUKE!

[theAlaskanBear]

After reading through the whole thread, the points I agree with most are the well deserved praise for Mason, the recognition of Andre's emergence and the needs-improvement defense. Here are a couple of expansions on other points:

-I felt much more comfortable with the ball in Kyrie's hands than the ball in Nolan's hands. Nolan does seem to be a much more natural 2 who is most effective catching and moving than trying to initiate the offense. While I think they both get into the lane easily, Kyrie seems better at keeping control for that extra half second to allow the defense to commit and then is deft at either finishing or hitting the open man. His two drives last night came at key junctures and he basically drove on a set defense, got to the rim and finished. Other times, he made the same drive and made sweet passes for 3s or to the big men. We'll see what happens tonight. If I were Frank Martin, I sick Pullen on him just to see if he's up to the challenge.

-Expanding on the point made about Kyle's drives from the top of the key. This is an area he has always struggled with. I find his drives much more effective if he is isolated on the wing. That being said, do we think he's better off playing more of a JJ-running-off-screens game or a triple threat shoot-drive-dish game? I know he wants to develop that face-up game, but it needs work. I guess he has the freedom to do what the defense gives him and that aspect of his game will develop over the course of the season.

-A few times, the TV coverage missed the start of plays, but in one instance Ryan Kelly threw an excellent entry pass from near half court to Mason. There are a lot of intriguing possibilities for that combo to work a little inside/outside action and I hope we continue to develop that part of our game. Mason has shown a passing knack, too, and I like the potential for him redirecting those entry passes to our 3 point marksmen on the weak side and on top of the key.

-6'7" slasher/shooter Jimmy Butler gave us all kinds of problems yesterday. Kyle is going to draw that type of defensive assignment quite often, but it was a reminder that Lance was a heck of a stopper against guys like that.

We wrote nearly the same post at the same time. I was just a little slower. I agree with everything you said especially re: Nolan v Irving and also Singler. Now my post is just more superfluous noise! Well, perfect for a message board I guess! ;)

[Billy Dat]

We wrote nearly the same post at the same time. I was just a little slower. I agree with everything you said especially re: Nolan v Irving and also Singler. Now my post is just more superfluous noise! Well, perfect for a message board I guess! ;)

That's funny - great minds.

I was going to add that, much like a Team USA, it felt like we were over-passing at times last night. It's not a bad problem, and one that will work itself out, but I think that we missed out on some good scoring opportunities as a result.

[Jeff Frosh]

My feeling is that the 50% free throw shooting performance is an isolated result. 6-12 is not much of a sample, 3 of those misses were by Mason (he should be able to improve on a 1-4 effort), and the other 3 were the one and ones that, although at the end of the game, were not really crucial, end of game free throws, because the lead was safe despite these misses. I have confidence in Nolan, Kyrie and Seth to knock down their free throws in the future.

[Billy Dat]

My feeling is that the 50% free throw shooting performance is an isolated result. 6-12 is not much of a sample, 3 of those misses were by Mason (he should be able to improve on a 1-4 effort), and the other 3 were the one and ones that, although at the end of the game, were not really crucial, end of game free throws, because the lead was safe despite these misses. I have confidence in Nolan, Kyrie and Seth to knock down their free throws in the future.

Agree about Nolan, Kyrie and Seth. Mason? He looked like he had no clue, very Shaq-esque. After he airballed that one, he totally overcompensated his next time to the line and awkwardly back rimmed. I feel like he was an ok free throw shooter last night...maybe he was just too pumped up?

[Jeff Frosh]

Agree about Nolan, Kyrie and Seth. Mason? He looked like he had no clue, very Shaq-esque. After he airballed that one, he totally overcompensated his next time to the line and awkwardly back rimmed. I feel like he was an ok free throw shooter last night...maybe he was just too pumped up?

I am not saying that he looked good, or that he will ever be a good free throw shooter (although I believe it is too early to totally rule that out), but I certainly expect him to shoot better than 25%.

[Kedsy]

I thought a lot of Mason's blocks last night were more or less in recovery mode after his guy got a step on him.

I get the impression he does it intentionally. Lets his man get a step and think he's free then Mason tries to block his shot from the side or behind. I'm not saying it's the best strategy -- because he often miscalculates or his man sees the trick and makes a pass and now we're out of position -- but I still think Mason does it on purpose.

[DukieInBrasil]

[/QUOTE]I thought a lot of Mason's blocks last night were more or less in recovery mode after his guy got a step on him.[/QUOTE]


I get the impression he does it intentionally. Lets his man get a step and think he's free then Mason tries to block his shot from the side or behind. I'm not saying it's the best strategy -- because he often miscalculates or his man sees the trick and makes a pass and now we're out of position -- but I still think Mason does it on purpose.
I agree with Kedsy pretty much, but per superdave's comment, Mason's first block of the night was very much not a "recovery" block, as he waited behind Kelly when Ryan stood up the driving Marquette player and blocked the shot kinda hidden by RK. There was at least one other block by MPII in the lane of essentially punking the shooter by swatting it face 2 face. So while, historically, I think sd's comment is pretty valid, it looks like MPII is developing a much more robust shot-blocking ability. Me likey.

[UrinalCake]

I am not saying that [Mason] looked good, or that he will ever be a good free throw shooter (although I believe it is too early to totally rule that out), but I certainly expect him to shoot better than 25%.

Free throw shooting can in fact improve, especially when a player gets more regular playing time. Lance was a horrible FT shooter for his first three years, something in the neighborhood of 50%. Basically you could count on him hitting 1 of 2 whenever he went to the line. But last year he improved that dramatically. I don't know his exact percentage, but I can definately remember some late-game situations where he knocked them down.

You can practice free throws in an empty gym all day long, but it's not the same as trying to hit them under game pressure, two shots at a time. That just takes experience.

[The Gordog]

Mason’s defensive position will improve as he gets more consistent minutes. 32 minutes of action allowed him to find some rhythm on the offensive end. Mason will figure it out on the defensive end eventually. Mason said it best in his post-game interview, “Obviously there is some room for improvement.”

;)Obviously he had switched to channeling Jon Scheyer at that point (obviously.);)

[superdave]

I get the impression he does it intentionally. Lets his man get a step and think he's free then Mason tries to block his shot from the side or behind. I'm not saying it's the best strategy -- because he often miscalculates or his man sees the trick and makes a pass and now we're out of position -- but I still think Mason does it on purpose.

You might be right about that. I think he feels like he can out-leap the offensive player, which is probably true most of the time. But relying on athleticism rather than defensive positioning will get you in foul trouble a lot.

Remember how Shelden blocked shots? Played a guy straight up and timed his jump. And he's Duke's all-time shot-blocker while managing to stay on the court his 3rd and 4th years while playing huge minutes.

I think Mason would be better off blocking shots on the help-side and playing his man straight up. He'd be on the court longer and get more dunks, anyway.

I guess I see it as a more of a reliance on athleticism and less of a trust in team defense, and I think that goes against what we typically see out of Duke's D which is why it stands out to me so much.

[superdave]

I agree with Kedsy pretty much, but per superdave's comment, Mason's first block of the night was very much not a "recovery" block, as he waited behind Kelly when Ryan stood up the driving Marquette player and blocked the shot kinda hidden by RK. There was at least one other block by MPII in the lane of essentially punking the shooter by swatting it face 2 face. So while, historically, I think sd's comment is pretty valid, it looks like MPII is developing a much more robust shot-blocking ability. Me likey.

I do love Mason's help-side blocks. They are great - and a great example of team D.

[Kedsy]

I think Mason would be better off blocking shots on the help-side and playing his man straight up. He'd be on the court longer and get more dunks, anyway.

I guess I see it as a more of a reliance on athleticism and less of a trust in team defense, and I think that goes against what we typically see out of Duke's D which is why it stands out to me so much.

I completely agree with you on this. I was just saying he wasn't in "recovery mode," but rather was a man with a (possibly misguided) plan.

[Kedsy]

Yes-- teams will really double team Mason, or any player, if he becomes a consistent threat to score 20+ points in single coverage. We have to remember that our lack of a dominant big man (and I'm not even close to saying that's what Mason is at this point) over the last 6 years or so may have twisted our idea of what a big is supposed to do in our system. The idea that Mason scoring 20+ on a regular basis will hurt our team offense because it will take him away from where he truly belongs on the perimeter setting screens seems truly perverse to me.

Also, keep in mind that Kyle will usually be on the floor with Mason-- we're not going to play Mason and the 4 shrimps very often, so your fear of there not being another big out there will rarely come true. I love Kyle as a screener, b/c unlike our bigs over the last bunch of years, he becomes truly dangerous rolling off that screen.

Well, I suppose you could be right. But if Mason is playing in a 1-in, 4-out offense with Kyrie, Nolan, Kyle, and Andre (or Seth), and assuming the opponent isn't in a zone, whose man is going to double down on Mason? Would someone guarding Kyle, Kyrie, or Nolan really leave his man completely unguarded? Could Andre's man get from the three-point line to the post quickly enough to make a difference? So I hear you that any team would want to double a 20-point threat, but I'm having trouble visualizing it if we play the small lineup.

If we play two bigs, I could more easily see a double-team coming if Mason shows he's capable of this on a regular basis. In that situation (or in the other situation if you're right and it happens) I hope Mason has the presence of mind to hit the open, unguarded man out of the double-team.

Either way, the idea that opponents have to worry about and plan for this makes our offense that much more formidable. So I'm happy about that (even if I still think our overall offense is better if our perimeter guys are our main scorers rather than Mason).

[Jim3k]

Two of Kyries to's may have come on mishandles of his good passes to Miles. He did dribble one off his foot and slipped on another. I don't know where the other one came from. The slowdown game seemed to put Kyrie into a poor spot. I hope we don't fall in love with the slowdown. There are times it works, but I think we would have been better served to move the ball around and lot to stay aggressive offensively.

Those TOs should be charged to the team in a slightly different way. And I'm not talking about how a scorekeeper would rate them. At least three of Kyrie's passes to Miles were too short, too hard and and too difficult to handle. Miles may not be the best receiver we have, but that type of pass would be difficult for any Big. It needs work by both players. So let's not put this solely on Miles. When they begin to connect, it will be super.

I think Miles had only one true fumble of his own making last night.

Miles's other issue is his habit of putting the ball on the floor. Mason did not, and came away with a monster game. As soon as Miles breaks the habit, he's going to go off as well. He's very good inside, as his one, very skillful, made shot showed last night. Clean handling will result in good things.

[quota]

Miles had 19 pts 14 rebounds earlier this year (last season) against Wake.

I was using 20 points as a threshold.

[BD80]

Mason played a ton of minutes last night because he was the hot hand. If he was not dominating the other team, the big man minutes would be more evenly spread. Also, if we go with a bigger lineup, then the guard's minutes will be more evenly spread. As Doug Gottlieb said last night, Duke is two completely different teams based on whether Singler is playing at the 3 or the 4 (and the minutes will be spread around according to which Duke lineup is most advantageous that night).

Completely disagree.

Sure, things can change and line-ups aren't set in stone (ie, Lance and Zoubs earning starting spots by the end of last year), but Coach K identifies his starters and/or primary players based upon a multitude of factors, many if not most of which result from practices. He then relies more heavily on those primary players during games. Coach K coaches each game as if it is the national championship, and he wants his players to play each game like it is the national championship (there is some leeway with early "warm-up" games and with games where we open 20+ leads).

Mason will continue to get substantially more minutes than Miles or Ryan, and Andre will get more minutes than Seth (though the gap won't be as substantial if Seth's D picks up). I think Kyrie's minutes will increase as we get closer to tourney time.

We may see a better distribution of minutes to the bench this year, but there will still be a core of players that will get the most minutes.

[bass-piscator]

I'm not going to comment on why he's not getting PT because K knows an infinite amount more than I but I really like Ryan and I like what he gives on the court. On both ends. I rewatched the first 15 minutes of the Marquette game and it made me sick. I had to turn it off. Ryan played solid defense. He got beat once pretty badly but I bet that happened to virtually everyone on the team in the 1st 15 minutes if I watched them as intently. But what pissed me off was seeing Kelly behind the 3 line, calling for the ball with no one within 10 feet of him. And ignored! Time after time. I don't think I have ever seen Kyle pass to him. If I was Kelly I would say "FU" Duke and go start on another D1 team. But, then, Ryan's no doubt a better person than me.

[Kedsy]

I'm not going to comment on why he's not getting PT because K knows an infinite amount more than I but I really like Ryan and I like what he gives on the court. On both ends. I rewatched the first 15 minutes of the Marquette game and it made me sick. I had to turn it off. Ryan played solid defense. He got beat once pretty badly but I bet that happened to virtually everyone on the team in the 1st 15 minutes if I watched them as intently. But what pissed me off was seeing Kelly behind the 3 line, calling for the ball with no one within 10 feet of him. And ignored! Time after time. I don't think I have ever seen Kyle pass to him. If I was Kelly I would say "FU" Duke and go start on another D1 team. But, then, Ryan's no doubt a better person than me.

I like Ryan a lot, but he's a 33% lifetime 3-point shooter. So he didn't get the ball out there and it made you sick? He wasn't physically able to play at a high level last year and this year he's earning his time and so far is starting for the #1 team in the country and getting 15 minutes a game. He's scoring 15.2 points per 40 minutes, so he must be touching the ball sometime. What made you think speculating about him transferring was a good idea?

[bass-piscator]

Lets see. A 33% pt shooter equates to a 50% 2pt shooter. Did you watch the game? He played well. He was open and he was ignored. Prove me different.

[lotusland]

Lets see. A 33% pt shooter equates to a 50% 2pt shooter. Did you watch the game? He played well. He was open and he was ignored. Prove me different.

Why so you think he was ignored? I think everyone wants to win so either they didn't see him or chose what they thought instinctively was a better option. I don't think there is any conspiracy to keep Ryan from shooting.

[jv001]

Lets see. A 33% pt shooter equates to a 50% 2pt shooter. Did you watch the game? He played well. He was open and he was ignored. Prove me different.

I get your disappointment in your favorite player(Ryan) not getting to shoot the 3 pointer. But come on, he's starting for the number 1 team in college bb. He's playing important minutes, his coach has praised him for his off season work and the season has just begun. Enjoy this "team" and the year ahead. Go Duke!