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HK Dukie
06-13-2007, 06:37 AM
I hope not but here is the link...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-bulls13jun13,1,416589.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

I will cheer for whatever team he ends up on though.

Travi_K
06-13-2007, 07:39 AM
If he gets traded, he is going to have to go to a special situation where he can use the same niche he has in Chicago. I am afraid that he may end up on the bench with with more veteran laden teams.

JasonEvans
06-13-2007, 08:03 AM
The reason the Bulls would look to deal Duhon is that Chris has an expiring contract. It is much easier to trade a guy who has a contract that will come off the books in a year, freeing up salary cap space as opposed to someone with a long-term deal whose contract can restrict a team for several years. Of the Bulls with expiring contracts in 2008, Duhon's is by far the most attractive (the Bulls are not going to trade Deng or Gordon and neither Malik Allen nor Victor Khryapa make enough or play enough to really be attractive in a trade).

Plus, Ben Gordon came on so strongly last year fopr the Bulls, their need for Duhon in the backcourt is lessened. They still have Thabo Sefolosha as a backup PG too.

As for the notion that he needs to find the right situation-- I disagree. I think Duhon has shown he can be a very solid NBA PG in almost any situation. He has a good shot, plays fabulous defense, and distrubutes the ball well. He may not be a starter for the best teams in the league, but he is, at a minimum, a valuable backup on any team in the league. And there are still plenty of teams that he could start for (HAWKS!!).

-Jason "Chris has several years left on his NBA career... and he is a shoe-in to be a coach somewhere when that is done" Evans

Jaymf7
06-13-2007, 09:11 AM
Jason "Chris has several years left on his NBA career... and he is a shoe-in to be a coach somewhere when that is done" Evans

I bet you were just trying to make a point about Chris coaching, but I hope he has a lot more than a few years left in the league. When he was at Duke, and in his junior and senior years in particular, I often debated whether Chris would succeed in the NBA. I always thought he was a lot like Eric Snow -- a gritty defender who could adequately run a team (a comparison helped a bit by what I see as a physical resemblence).

While Snow's production has tapered recently (not uncommon for an aging PG), the career numbers of the two are quite close...

SNOW -- 27 MPG, 7 PPG, 5 APG, 1.2 SPG, 21% 3PT
DUHON -- 27 MPG, 7 PPG, 4.6 APG, 1 SPG, 36% 3PT

Of course, Snow has played for 12 years in the league (824 games, nearly 600 more than Chris). He also made $6MM this year (twice what Chris made). here's hoping that Chris can have a lenghty NBA career before ultimately becoming a top-notch coach.

phaedrus
06-13-2007, 09:15 AM
the difference between duhon and snow is that only one of them is a better shooter than me (and i'm not particularly good either).

Travi_K
06-13-2007, 03:32 PM
The reason the Bulls would look to deal Duhon is that Chris has an expiring contract. It is much easier to trade a guy who has a contract that will come off the books in a year, freeing up salary cap space as opposed to someone with a long-term deal whose contract can restrict a team for several years. Of the Bulls with expiring contracts in 2008, Duhon's is by far the most attractive (the Bulls are not going to trade Deng or Gordon and neither Malik Allen nor Victor Khryapa make enough or play enough to really be attractive in a trade).

Plus, Ben Gordon came on so strongly last year fopr the Bulls, their need for Duhon in the backcourt is lessened. They still have Thabo Sefolosha as a backup PG too.

As for the notion that he needs to find the right situation-- I disagree. I think Duhon has shown he can be a very solid NBA PG in almost any situation. He has a good shot, plays fabulous defense, and distrubutes the ball well. He may not be a starter for the best teams in the league, but he is, at a minimum, a valuable backup on any team in the league. And there are still plenty of teams that he could start for (HAWKS!!).

-Jason "Chris has several years left on his NBA career... and he is a shoe-in to be a coach somewhere when that is done" Evans




I hope you are right.

Zeb
06-13-2007, 03:35 PM
A pass first point guard who excels at defense and can hit the open jumper... that is why the Nuggets got Steve Blake. I think Duhon is an upgrade across the board.

Duhon definitely has a solid future in the NBA.

unwrinkled ear
06-13-2007, 07:14 PM
and phoenix is supposed to be looking for someone to help back Nash up.
i think he'd do great there

juise
06-13-2007, 07:20 PM
and phoenix is supposed to be looking for someone to help back Nash up.
i think he'd do great there

Phoenix has a back-up PG who was also the NBA's 6th man of the year. Are they looking to deal Barbosa? Is he a free agent? Did I miss something?

greybeard
06-13-2007, 08:11 PM
The Hawks? But who would they give?

duketaylor
06-13-2007, 08:31 PM
Not sure why you think he can coach. Please explain.

feldspar
06-14-2007, 10:17 AM
Not sure why you think he can coach. Please explain.

Lots of smart basketball players go on to be coaches. Chris is a smart basketball player. He also has an excellent coaching pipeline from which to draw references/advice/opportunities.

Do you not think he can coach? Please explain.

JasonEvans
06-14-2007, 10:50 AM
Lots of smart basketball players go on to be coaches. Chris is a smart basketball player. He also has an excellent coaching pipeline from which to draw references/advice/opportunities.

Do you not think he can coach? Please explain.

He's not just smart, but has certainly shown himself to be a leader. Leadership is paramount to coaching.

And he is a former Dukie who played some PG and started as a senior. Lets go back over the list of Duke PGs who started as a senior:

Dockery- not sure what he is up to
Ewing- in NBA
Duhon- in NBA
Wojo- coach
Capel- coach
Collins- coach
Hurley- racing horses, supposedly interested in coaching
Snyder- former coach
Amaker- coach
Dawkins- coach

Hmmm, now what would make me think that maybe Duhon might follow in the footsteps of the 6 guys before him who did the exact same thing?

-Jason "PGs from Duke... the cradle of coaching :) " Evans

BlueDevilBaby
06-14-2007, 11:46 AM
Snyder's coaching again.:)

yancem
06-14-2007, 12:41 PM
He's not just smart, but has certainly shown himself to be a leader. Leadership is paramount to coaching.

And he is a former Dukie who played some PG and started as a senior. Lets go back over the list of Duke PGs who started as a senior:

Dockery- not sure what he is up to
Ewing- in NBA
Duhon- in NBA
Wojo- coach
Capel- coach
Collins- coach
Hurley- racing horses, supposedly interested in coaching
Snyder- former coach
Amaker- coach
Dawkins- coach

Hmmm, now what would make me think that maybe Duhon might follow in the footsteps of the 6 guys before him who did the exact same thing?

-Jason "PGs from Duke... the cradle of coaching :) " Evans


Not to nit pick but actually, Amaker started at point guard Dakins' senior year. Still you have a good point.

6th Man
06-14-2007, 01:10 PM
I always felt Duhon had about as big of an impact on a game as anybody could have for usually having a meager looking stat line. He would have like 8 pts., 4 or 5 assists, and a couple of steals, but control the game beautifully. I always thought it was funny how coming out of high school he was touted as a superb shooter and that was/is his biggest struggle. Great point guard and knew how to control a game and win. Will always remember his reverse layup to win the game in Chapel Hell.

SilkyJ
06-14-2007, 03:29 PM
Not to nit pick but actually, Amaker started at point guard Dakins' senior year. Still you have a good point.

Didn't he play PG his whole career?

Exiled_Devil
06-14-2007, 03:42 PM
Not sure why you think he can coach. Please explain.

During his time at Duke, Duhon would call plays and run strategy for the bench team in games against the starters (and sometimes the coaches) I will see if I can find an article about this, but I know Coach K talked about it at K Academy when I was there.

Exiled

OZZIE4DUKE
06-14-2007, 09:42 PM
Didn't he (Amaker) play PG his whole career?

Yes. Dawkins played the point as a freshman, but once TA arrived the next year, Tommy was the 1 and JD the 2, most of the time. Of course that team is where K's philosophy of no true positions first developed. (But Tommy was the 1 and Johnny was the 2. Shhhh! Don't tell anyone.)

wiscodevil
06-15-2007, 11:14 AM
When your employer is worried about your partying it's time to knock it off. Actually the time is before then. If he can't do it on his own, he should get help.

There are way too many pictures/stories all over the internet of Chris' boozing ways.

Rich
06-15-2007, 11:51 AM
What's with the partying? Granted, the image I have of Chris is totally fabricated from TV viewing, but I never thought of him as a huge partyer or the subject of the gossip pages.

Tom B.
06-15-2007, 12:32 PM
What's with the partying? Granted, the image I have of Chris is totally fabricated from TV viewing, but I never thought of him as a huge partyer or the subject of the gossip pages.

Ballers with Randoms (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewmac/sets/72157594578959707/) has some photos of Duhon partying -- start here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewmac/415645244/in/set-72157594578959707/) and use the arrows on the right to scroll through the next several pictures. None of them are really bad or embarrassing -- just Chris having a good time.

As for this guy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewmac/417257141/in/set-72157594578959707/).... dude, what happened?

Classof06
06-15-2007, 01:00 PM
What's with the partying? Granted, the image I have of Chris is totally fabricated from TV viewing, but I never thought of him as a huge partyer or the subject of the gossip pages.

Duhon definitely partied hard. He was there my first two years, and I routinely saw him out, in-season and in the off-season. In fact, even though it was before I got there, I'm pretty sure he got cited for underage consumption his freshman year.

Anyway, it won't happen, but I wouldn't mind seeing Chris in a Cavs uniform. We need a PG like nobody's business...

EarlJam
06-15-2007, 01:14 PM
Ballers with Randoms (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewmac/sets/72157594578959707/) has some photos of Duhon partying -- start here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewmac/415645244/in/set-72157594578959707/) and use the arrows on the right to scroll through the next several pictures. None of them are really bad or embarrassing -- just Chris having a good time.

As for this guy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewmac/417257141/in/set-72157594578959707/).... dude, what happened?

Good LORD! What happened Chief!???

Dude's looking rough.

-EarlJam

feldspar
06-15-2007, 02:56 PM
If the reports are true that he parties so hard that it makes him miss practice and film sessions, that's very sad. Chris is supposed to be a professional, and I wouldn't blame the Bulls at all if they decided to ship him off. Maybe he should end up in Utah, where his partying ways would be deminished greatly and he could learn how to "hit the books" again, as it were.

Zeb
06-15-2007, 06:27 PM
Recommending Chris go to Utah (Deron Williams be damned!) solely based on its teetotaling LDS population as the cure to his partying is interesting. Other options: he could go to Seattle, so there'd be plenty of coffee to help him wake up. Or he could go to Toronto where it would be harder to buy drinks because of the different currency. Or he could go to New York, where with all the crowds and traffic, it would be too hard and expensive to go out too often.

Chard
06-15-2007, 07:26 PM
Ballers with Randoms (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewmac/sets/72157594578959707/) has some photos of Duhon partying -- start here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewmac/415645244/in/set-72157594578959707/) and use the arrows on the right to scroll through the next several pictures. None of them are really bad or embarrassing -- just Chris having a good time.

Who can blame the guy? Meow!


As for this guy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewmac/417257141/in/set-72157594578959707/).... dude, what happened?

Is Cherokee in the league anymore?

gep
06-19-2007, 07:37 PM
I hope I'm not repeating something that was posted elsewhere... but this morning I heard stuff that a possible trade scenario is Kobe to Chicago for Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, and a first round trade pick. Anything to this? And if so, how would it affect Chris? Maybe it was just some sportscaster "dreaming"... he said that's trading Kobe (age 29, maybe near the end of a good part of his career) and Deng/Gordon/draft pick (24+ somethings, 20+ somethings). Thanks...

DukeDevilDeb
06-19-2007, 09:04 PM
I am very concerned about Chris and his penchant for partying. He had the same penchant here at Duke (and the same propensity for missing appointments and even certain basketball obligations). He's no Dennis Rodman, of course, but this is now twice that he has missed an important Bulls obligation.

He keeps this up, and no one will want him. He is a good player and an excellent leader... his defense is tops as well. But the NBA is fighting for a positive image... and some of these pictures suggest that Chris is still a few steps away from that.

mapei
06-19-2007, 09:51 PM
Not good, definitely . . .

dukemath
06-20-2007, 07:44 AM
I would really love that trade. Maybe they could also add Chris Duhon since they are looking to dump him anyway. I think that kind of trade would be best for the future of the Lakers.

NW Indiana Dukie
06-20-2007, 08:39 AM
Being a Bulls fan, I would not like it at all. It has been proven that in order to win a NBA title you need 2 star players. If the Bulls include Deng in the trade, then Kobe(Batman) would not have his "Robin". I feel anyone else on the Bulls roster is expendable just not Deng. I hope they do get Kobe just not at the expense of Deng. It should be an interesting summer---the draft is only a week away.

Dukerati
06-20-2007, 10:53 AM
I hope I'm not repeating something that was posted elsewhere... but this morning I heard stuff that a possible trade scenario is Kobe to Chicago for Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, and a first round trade pick. Anything to this? And if so, how would it affect Chris? Maybe it was just some sportscaster "dreaming"... he said that's trading Kobe (age 29, maybe near the end of a good part of his career) and Deng/Gordon/draft pick (24+ somethings, 20+ somethings). Thanks...

You have most of the components of the potential trade right but are missing a couple key ingredients. The Bulls will need to add two or three more players to make the salaries match up (Ben Wallace is being bandied about as a potential name) and will also need to find a third team to consummate the trade. The Lakers are apparently demanding a superstar back for Kobe and do not consider Gordon or Deng to be at that level. Who this third team will be is yet to be determined. Possibly Pierce with the Celtics, Arenas with the Wizards, or Marion with the Suns....

Clipsfan
06-20-2007, 12:01 PM
I think that it is unlikely that Kobe ends up getting traded, despite his desire to play for another team. First, tickets out here are ridiculously expensive. The main reason that the Lakers get away with the price is because Kobe is out there. As much as we Duke fans like Deng, ticket holders aren't going to want to see him play as much as they like watching Kobe. Second, I have to assume that the very vocal demands have damaged the Lakers' ability to make a good trade, as other teams must feel that the Lakers are in a tough spot. The Lakers aren't going to make a desperation trade.

throatybeard
06-20-2007, 12:40 PM
I think the only way the Lakers can work the salaries out and get equal value is to involve the New York Yankees in the 3-way. (The NYY don't operate under the salary cap and have demonstrated a willingness to eat big contracts). Kobe to the NYY; ARod to PG for the Bulls; and Duhon, Wallace, Deng, Gordon, and the statue of Jordan to the Lakers.

Then, I might actually watch the NBA.

gep
06-20-2007, 01:19 PM
Being a Bulls fan, I would not like it at all. It has been proven that in order to win a NBA title you need 2 star players. If the Bulls include Deng in the trade, then Kobe(Batman) would not have his "Robin". I feel anyone else on the Bulls roster is expendable just not Deng. I hope they do get Kobe just not at the expense of Deng. It should be an interesting summer---the draft is only a week away.

I was wondering about your batman/robin comment. Was Scottie Pippen that good before Michael blossomed... or did Michael actually have a big part in the development of Pippen as his "robin". In other words, can Chris become Kobe's "robin"? (obviously, I'm a "regular" fan, and not a basketball expert)...

Indoor66
06-20-2007, 01:22 PM
I was wondering about your batman/robin comment. Was Scottie Pippen that good before Michael blossomed... or did Michael actually have a big part in the development of Pippen as his "robin". In other words, can Chris become Kobe's "robin"? (obviously, I'm a "regular" fan, and not a basketball expert)...

Jordan's first year = '84-'85
Pippen's first year = '87-'88

NW Indiana Dukie
06-20-2007, 02:25 PM
I was wondering about your batman/robin comment. Was Scottie Pippen that good before Michael blossomed... or did Michael actually have a big part in the development of Pippen as his "robin". In other words, can Chris become Kobe's "robin"? (obviously, I'm a "regular" fan, and not a basketball expert)...

Michael was a HUGE factor in Pippen becoming the Top 50 All Time Player he was. Don't get me wrong--Pippen was a stud but without Michael, he could not do it. I believe Kobe could take Deng under his wing and help him blossom into a stud like Michael did with Pippen. Deng is a very good player right now but if you pair him up with a superstar(Kobe) they would be an impressive force. As much as I like Chris, he does not have the ability to be nearly as good as Deng will be. Chris will be a good role player for any team and Deng would be a star on just about every team.;)

dukemomLA
06-20-2007, 04:07 PM
Need some help here. My daughter was at Duke (class of '01) during part of Duhon's time. Chris' Mom and little brother were always featured in the crowd. I NEVER heard any stories -- or even a whisper -- about Duhon drinking, missing practice, oversleeping, etc.etc.

Was I blind?? Or is this just NBA behavior -- and if so, has Coach K/Shane/Elton/JWill,etc. reached out to tell Chris to knock it off??

OZZIE4DUKE
06-20-2007, 04:16 PM
Need some help here. My daughter was at Duke (class of '01) during part of Duhon's time. I NEVER heard any stories -- or even a whisper -- about Duhon drinking, missing practice, oversleeping, etc.etc.

Was I blind?? Or is this just NBA behavior -- and if so, has Coach K/Shane/Elton/JWill,etc. reached out to tell Chris to knock it off??

You were blind to the internet, which on occasion was rife with stories (posted by competitors' fans) of Duhon's drinking. I hope he is able to get it under control before he ruins his life and his career.

gep
06-20-2007, 04:21 PM
You were blind to the internet, which on occasion was rife with stories (posted by competitors' fans) of Duhon's drinking. I hope he is able to get it under control before he ruins his life and his career.

Count me as one who was also blind to the internet back then, and these stories are news to me. I think I may have heard one or two incidents of oversleeping or being late or something while Chris was at Duke, but I don't recall any drinking kind of problem. Thanks...

mapei
06-20-2007, 09:24 PM
Michael was a HUGE factor in Pippen becoming the Top 50 All Time Player he was. Don't get me wrong--Pippen was a stud but without Michael, he could not do it.

And vice versa, IMO. Neither got it done without the other, or without Phil Jackson for that matter.

I get miffed when people contend that, since the Bulls didn't win it all after MJ left, he was the only reason they won. First, they came damn close to making the finals the year after MJ left, one controversial foul call in game 7 as I recall. But, second, if instead of just subtracting MJ you replace him with the second best player in the league at his position (which IMO was Reggie Miller at the time), that team wins another championship. MJ was a great player but the hype on him was and is way out of control.

ETA: These stories about Chris are really surprising and distressing to me. He's always been one of my favorites.

madscavenger
06-21-2007, 01:29 AM
Now THAT sounds like a Jerry Krause trade (wonder how much the statue contributes toward the cap)?

gvtucker
06-21-2007, 08:08 AM
And vice versa, IMO. Neither got it done without the other, or without Phil Jackson for that matter.

I get miffed when people contend that, since the Bulls didn't win it all after MJ left, he was the only reason they won. First, they came damn close to making the finals the year after MJ left, one controversial foul call in game 7 as I recall. But, second, if instead of just subtracting MJ you replace him with the second best player in the league at his position (which IMO was Reggie Miller at the time), that team wins another championship. MJ was a great player but the hype on him was and is way out of control.

ETA: These stories about Chris are really surprising and distressing to me. He's always been one of my favorites.

The Bulls weren't that close the year after Jordan retired for the first time. They lost to the Knicks in Game 7, but that was the Eastern Conference semifinals. The following year, the Bulls lost again in the Eastern Conference semifinal, this time to the Orlando Magic. With Jordan back the following year, of course, the Bulls won the championship again. (The Bulls were horrible the year after Jordan retired the second time, but that was after the team was gutted.)

I saw practically every Bulls home game during the Jordan years. IMO, no way any of those Bulls teams win a championship with pretty much anyone but Jordan at the helm. Pippen was the player that was overrated, not Jordan. He is part of a long line of players that were fantastic with the Bulls, and somehow stunk when they left Chicago, or before they arrived in Chicago. (Among others, Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges, Horace Grant, Scott Williams...)

SilkyJ
06-21-2007, 10:39 AM
Count me as one who was also blind to the internet back then, and these stories are news to me. I think I may have heard one or two incidents of oversleeping or being late or something while Chris was at Duke, but I don't recall any drinking kind of problem. Thanks...

Ozzie is spot on, and having had some overlap with Chris and hung out with him a bit I would say he definitely likes to party (although I wouldn't say he has a drinking problem at least no more than the average college kid who likes to party)

Reggie Love (his soph yr roommate) was much crazier (you may remember how he rejoined the bball team as a 5th yr senior then was benched towards the end of the year b/c of an incident at UNC...)

Dukerati
06-21-2007, 10:46 AM
Count me in as one of the people who attended Duke during Duhon's years. I do not know if his drinking was more excessive than the average frat boy's intake but he certainly had a reputation as a heavy drinker and fair or not, basketball players were held to a different standard.

FYI, I saw him play beirut (beer pong) a few times, and he was GOOD. Hearing some of these stories though makes me wonder if Chris has changed since college. In college, drinking is considered OK. If you drink in the real world like some of us did in college, that's considered alcoholism (and for good reason). I do hope Chris has toned it down a bit and it's not as bad as some people are speculating.

Richard Berg
06-21-2007, 11:49 AM
Another Duhon contemporary here. Yes, Chris could put away a lot of alcohol. No, I don't remember ever seeing or hearing about him overdoing it, at least by college standards.

If he still enjoys partying, good for him. He's 24, has a great job, and acts as a leader & role model in many ways. Better a little alky than the hard drugs & unsafe sex known to plague other highly successful young people.

MarineTwinsDad
06-21-2007, 12:34 PM
I believe Kobe could take Deng under his wing and help him blossom into a stud like Michael did with Pippen...

This begs the question, would Luol Deng really benefit by becoming more like Kobe Bryant? Right now Deng seems to be very much a team player, with a good reputation. Has anyone ever really benefitted (that is, becoming a better basketball player, better skilled) by playing with Kobe?

It does happen with some teams. For example, those playing on San Antonio have over the years benefitted from playing with Dave Robinson, and now with Tim Duncan. His character is not shaped by his success on the court, and it seems that those who are successful on the Spurs have bought into the "team first" mentality. I'm not sure that would be the result of any mentoring done by Kobe Bryant.

NW Indiana Dukie
06-21-2007, 12:58 PM
To be completely honest, I am not sure how the combo of Deng and Kobe would shake out. I do know the outside of Shaq, Kobe has not played with another player with the talent and upside of Deng. It is that factor that I am willing to explore the opportunity of Deng blossoming under the tutelage of Kobe.

Clipsfan
06-21-2007, 01:11 PM
To be completely honest, I am not sure how the combo of Deng and Kobe would shake out. I do know the outside of Shaq, Kobe has not played with another player with the talent and upside of Deng. It is that factor that I am willing to explore the opportunity of Deng blossoming under the tutalige of Kobe.

I am not sure that you're giving Lamar Odom due credit. I don't know that Odom has always played up to his talent, but he has always been tremendously talented.

A-Tex Devil
06-21-2007, 01:31 PM
Need some help here. My daughter was at Duke (class of '01) during part of Duhon's time. Chris' Mom and little brother were always featured in the crowd. I NEVER heard any stories -- or even a whisper -- about Duhon drinking, missing practice, oversleeping, etc.etc.

Was I blind?? Or is this just NBA behavior -- and if so, has Coach K/Shane/Elton/JWill,etc. reached out to tell Chris to knock it off??

I think anything at Duke was low key and not any different than any other red blooded American college student. Chris enjoyed a good party.

My sister lives in Chicago and occasionally hangs out at the shee-shee (sp?) velvet rope places I'd never be caught dead in. Anyway she sees Chris out a bunch. Chris is a fixture on the Chicago social scene these days -- especially after hours. Nothing untoward, or to be ashamed of, it's just that he likes to have a good time and Chicago is a great place to have a good time, especially if you have money.

Yes, it would be better if it didn't effect his day job. But he's not running with a sketchy entourage, doesn't have his name on the door of a secret room at a strip club, not brandishing firearms or getting DUIs or anything else. If sleeping through practice is his worst offense, well, let's just say a lot of us have probably been guilty of worse infractions in our day jobs caused by our evening lifestyle when in our early to mid 20s.

NW Indiana Dukie
06-21-2007, 01:34 PM
Out of everyone I could think of, Lamar was the one I was questionable on.
I personally feel Deng will have a better or more high profile career than Lamar and that is not a knock on Lamar by any means. The only negative with Lamar is that out of his 3 seasons with Kobe, he only played 1 full season. He missed significant time in the other 2 seasons due to injuries. I just feel Deng is a better player.

mapei
06-21-2007, 05:35 PM
The Bulls weren't that close the year after Jordan retired for the first time. They lost to the Knicks in Game 7, but that was the Eastern Conference semifinals. The following year, the Bulls lost again in the Eastern Conference semifinal, this time to the Orlando Magic. With Jordan back the following year, of course, the Bulls won the championship again. (The Bulls were horrible the year after Jordan retired the second time, but that was after the team was gutted.)

I saw practically every Bulls home game during the Jordan years. IMO, no way any of those Bulls teams win a championship with pretty much anyone but Jordan at the helm. Pippen was the player that was overrated, not Jordan. He is part of a long line of players that were fantastic with the Bulls, and somehow stunk when they left Chicago, or before they arrived in Chicago. (Among others, Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges, Horace Grant, Scott Williams...)

I agree with most of that, but not all. I think that Bulls team had enough talent to win it all with the second-best 2-guard in the league (had that been an option) as well as with the best. We'll never know, of course, but that's what makes barroom sports arguments fun.

And MJ was mediocre with the Wizards, so he didn't do too well outside of Chicago, either. But that's a bit unfair, I guess, since the expectations were different at that point. And he was a horrible front office guy.

Clipsfan
06-21-2007, 06:20 PM
Out of everyone I could think of, Lamar was the one I was questionable on.
I personally feel Deng will have a better or more high profile career than Lamar and that is not a knock on Lamar by any means. The only negative with Lamar is that out of his 3 seasons with Kobe, he only played 1 full season. He missed significant time in the other 2 seasons due to injuries. I just feel Deng is a better player.

We will see how Deng's career turns out, at this point we are really just speculating and assuming that a short-term trend of improvement continues. This is likely, as he is supposed to be a really hard worker. This is also where, if we're talking about talent, I was making a distinction between Odom's talent and his use of that talent. He's both been injured and has been known to slack off at times, smoke some pot etc. However, he is a much better passer than Deng will ever be, a better rebounder, a better long range shooter and better at getting to the rim. The only area Deng may currently be better is the mid-range shot. As a result, it's hard for me to say that Deng is more talented, especially since the last area, defense, is something that Odom is probably better at but I'm not sure. Odom does guard some really good 4s out in the west.

Truth
06-21-2007, 08:11 PM
...I was making a distinction between Odom's talent and his use of that talent. He's both been injured and has been known to slack off at times, smoke some pot etc.

Has been known to smoke some pot? Got any evidence of this?

Clipsfan
06-21-2007, 08:31 PM
Has been known to smoke some pot? Got any evidence of this?

I take it you mean other than the fact that he's been suspended in the past for violating the league's drug policy by smoking pot?

This is just the first hit from google, you can find more:

http://cannabisculture.com/articles/1951.html

Truth
06-21-2007, 09:03 PM
I take it you mean other than the fact that he's been suspended in the past for violating the league's drug policy by smoking pot?

This is just the first hit from google, you can find more:

http://cannabisculture.com/articles/1951.html

Actually, I take it to mean that I should've read your post more carefully before I replied. Somewhere along the way I thought you were talking about Greg Oden, not Lamar Odom. I knew Oden was red-flagged for wrist & back concerns, but I hadn't read that was prescribed medicinal marijuana! ;)