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View Full Version : Duke 110, Colgate 58 Post-Game Thread



Bob Green
11-19-2010, 10:45 PM
Discuss the game here!

cruxer
11-19-2010, 10:52 PM
Defense looked good again. In the first half, Colgate hit some improbable shots in spite of good D. Our offense struggled, but we still scored 40+ points. In the 2nd half, their improbable shots stopped falling and our offense came around!

I love the offensive spark Curry/Dawkins are going to bring as first of the bench.

-c

Saratoga2
11-19-2010, 10:52 PM
Hard to form much of an opinion from Game tracker, but it seemed Thorton and Dawkins played well and were efficient. Kyrie didn't need to play much tonight but did a good job while in and Nolan also played well. Looking forward to a more detailed wrapup from someone who actually was at the game.

Utley
11-19-2010, 10:56 PM
Sick game. First 5 minutes of the second half were as good as we've played in some time. This team clearly has an A game that few can contend with; we'll just need to bring in at the right times.

Kyrie was clearly the best player on the court. The whole team played tremendous defense all game long - again. No one gets past Kyrie and Ryan Kelly was everywhere. I know it was only Colgate, but I have to start working on managing my expectations.

Namtilal
11-19-2010, 10:58 PM
Can't wait for this team to be challenged. How will the offense look when the D is able to take away the easy buckets (or, more likely, just reduce the number of layups and wide open threes)? Can't wait for the next few weeks. We haven't been forced to execute in the half-court yet.

If Colgate didn't play so hard, we could have won by 70 or 80 tonight.

I love seeing Nolan and Kyrie switch on D. It must be so demoralizing to think you have a step on one, and then the other is right in front of you.

Jeff0r3
11-19-2010, 11:01 PM
Looking good.

Curry - I hope he isn't regretting his Transfer to Duke. I know he won't show it, but inside I kinda feel like he's not getting everything he was expecting.. (Not from Duke, but from Himself) Hopefully he was just a little off and that is a bad feeling I've gotten.

Plumlees - Gotta do better. We need more from them inside. Sometimes they look like they're trying too hard. Mason had some pointless fouls 30 foot from the basket. Miles just acts like a linebacker sometimes.

Singler - Tough as nails. Sick but still all the hustle we could ever want. A quiet 18 points.

Smith - Did a great job and is a factor in almost every play..

Kelly - WOW! What a different player, I honestly wasn't expecting him to be this much better. There were a few possessions where I felt like he was involved in every play.

Irving - Potential is more than we know! I am so impressed with what he's doing, and I'm also very happy that he's not rushing his progression as a player. Its going to be fun watching him!

Dawkins - One of my favorite players! I don't know why, but I feel like when he scores, I wanna tell someone "See I told you he's great" I like his new confidence on the floor.


Overall, I was impressed with the team's defense and the beginning of the second half, they came out and poured it on like I've been wanting to see. I'm very excited! We need alot more from the Bigs, but other than that!

davekay1971
11-19-2010, 11:07 PM
This team is so offensively potent, it's amazing to watch. With Kyrie running it and all the weapons we have, it's really beautiful when they hit those spurts where it's all clicking.

What I like most so far is the defense. They aren't slacking off at all, not even against weaker competition. Great offensive teams can tend to rely on that, not focusing as hard on defense, knowing they can make it up. Not these guys. Credit Kyle, Nolan, and coaching staff for that.

That defense will be the key to our success. If we play at that level on defense, make teams have to work like hell to score, and generate easy points on the break, we're going to be very very hard to stop.

DukeBlueNV
11-19-2010, 11:12 PM
It's good to have a team that can score 110 points when your two All-Americans go 10-29 from the field. GO DUKE and GTHC!

roywhite
11-19-2010, 11:13 PM
We've seen Duke teams with "spurt-ability" before, with the weapons and style to put up points in bunches. But this team seems to have a huge dose of that capability. They can generate turnovers, get the ball downcourt in a hurry, and either get to the rim or locate some great shooters who can knock down 3-pointers. Our depth accentuates this; we can wear a team down, and then hit them with a quick run. Very encouraging.

Bob Green
11-19-2010, 11:15 PM
Plumlees - Gotta do better. We need more from them inside. Sometimes they look like they're trying too hard. Mason had some pointless fouls 30 foot from the basket. Miles just acts like a linebacker sometimes.



Miles and Mason combined for 18 points, 12 rebounds, four steals, and two blocked shots. Those are decent numbers.

Bluealum
11-19-2010, 11:15 PM
2 Plumlees. 37 minutes. 10 fouls. (Mason had 5 fouls in 13 minutes...seemed like longer but not good!)

Curry a poor shooting night and some forced shots

The defense really is incredible.

Kyrie is undoubtedly the best freshman basketball player I have watched in a Duke uniform, his one man stop/start fast break and thread the needle passes are incredible. Impact player tonight even with limited minutes.

Hairston and Thornton both bring a lot of energy and steadiness for freshmen. We will enjoy their play and growth for years to come. I see them being great senior leaders.

Ryan and Andre are both bringing it every night and tonight was no exception. Major steps forward for both of them in the first 3 games of the season. They were both solid tonight and Ryan was the most effective offensive big in the game. Andre shot well and was active on defense.

Not a great shooting night for Kyle, but lots of rebounds in traffic. He is a tough customer. If Mason and Miles had a bit more of that, they would be unstoppable on the boards.

Nolan has made a quantum leap as a passer. Tons of assists, he looks more and more like the point guard that we wanted to see his sophomore year. Bodes well for him next year as he tries to make a jump to the pros.

All in all a great defensive effort. The thing that will beaten up ad nauseum on the boards will be the fouls that the Plumbros give up, as well as the lack of a dominating rebounding effort against a smaller team. (Miles did have 8 in 24 which is pretty good actually)

In their defense, and I think this is more true of Miles, we are a better defensive team when they are on the court. At the end when they were out and Ryan and Josh were inside, Colgate took it inside much more often and with much greater success.

Plumlee development is going to be a season long topic on the boards, hopefully one or both of them will make a big jump during the season, it just hasn't happened yet.

Oh yeah....we scored a 110 points!

Namtilal
11-19-2010, 11:20 PM
2 Plumlees. 37 minutes. 10 fouls. (Mason had 5 fouls in 13 minutes...seemed like longer but not good!)


True, but think of what Z and Lance would have been like in this defense. It demands so much more rotation and switching from the bigs when the guards are playing 'classic' Duke pressure D. Part of why they succeeded so much last year is that they weren't asked to anchor such controlled chaos on defense as the Plumlees are this year.

I think they will get their legs under them and reduce the fouls as the season goes on. However, it will certainly continue to be a problem.

BlueintheFace
11-19-2010, 11:34 PM
I take nothing from this game about the team itself. Terrible opponent.

In terms of continuing trends for individuals:

-Irving continues to be an absolute freak.
-Kyle struggling from distance for the second straight game- not worried
-The Plumlees still have terrible fundamentals on rebounding-- jumping rather than bodying, one hand rather than two almost every time.
- Continue to be impressed by Hairston's hustle and rebounding fundamentals
- Continue to be impressed with how Tyler runs the team.
- Dawkins still looks like the most improved player on the team.

Starter
11-19-2010, 11:43 PM
Looking good.

Curry - I hope he isn't regretting his Transfer to Duke. I know he won't show it, but inside I kinda feel like he's not getting everything he was expecting.. (Not from Duke, but from Himself) Hopefully he was just a little off and that is a bad feeling I've gotten.



Please. Curry's shot is off -- as streak shooters are prone to do at times -- and you jump to this conclusion? It almost doesn't seem like a legitimate opinion. Curry still scored 11, he's been in double digits every game, he's fine.

Bluealum
11-19-2010, 11:46 PM
True, but think of what Z and Lance would have been like in this defense. It demands so much more rotation and switching from the bigs when the guards are playing 'classic' Duke pressure D. Part of why they succeeded so much last year is that they weren't asked to anchor such controlled chaos on defense as the Plumlees are this year.

I think they will get their legs under them and reduce the fouls as the season goes on. However, it will certainly continue to be a problem.

You know that is a good point. The type of defense we are playing is more demanding. On the other hand several of those reach in fouls away from the basket were hardly a function of rotations. It's game 3 and the example of Z reminds us that great improvement can happen over the course of a few weeks. The Plums have all the tools, it just hasn't clicked as yet. It will be interesting to watch how the brother's P, handle Michigan States physicality and rebounding acumen.

110 points and there is room for growth. Nice!

ajgoodfella7
11-19-2010, 11:51 PM
You know that is a good point. The type of defense we are playing is more demanding. On the other hand several of those reach in fouls away from the basket were hardly a function of rotations. It's game 3 and the example of Z reminds us that great improvement can happen over the course of a few weeks. The Plums have all the tools, it just hasn't clicked as yet. It will be interesting to watch how the brother's P, handle Michigan States physicality and rebounding acumen.

110 points and there is room for growth. Nice!

I'm really hoping that the Duke-KState matchup happens for the exact reason you just stated. I really want to see the Plumlee's have to play a more responsible game of basketball. I think KState would be a huge test for them.

watzone
11-19-2010, 11:52 PM
Coach K post game audio and game observations - http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/11/bdn-post-game-thoughts-on-dukes-110-58-win-over-colgate-k-post-game-comments/

Namtilal
11-19-2010, 11:57 PM
My favorite part of this team so far is how excited I am when Andre and Seth come into the game as the first substitutions. Totally changes the strengths of the offense, but we don't become any easier to guard. That play Andre had, the pump-fake, one dribble to his left, then a picture-perfect jumper -- I'm sure I scared the neighbors when I yelled after that one.

roywhite
11-20-2010, 12:12 AM
My favorite part of this team so far is how excited I am when Andre and Seth come into the game as the first substitutions. Totally changes the strengths of the offense, but we don't become any easier to guard. That play Andre had, the pump-fake, one dribble to his left, then a picture-perfect jumper -- I'm sure I scared the neighbors when I yelled after that one.

Yeah, I agree; the talent on the perimeter is incredible.

My favorite stat so far---Kyrie and Nolan are averaging 14 assists per game combined (Nolan has 22 assists and Kyrie 20 so far) and 4 turnovers per game combined. Finding an open 3-pt shooter can count for an assist, too.

Lord Ash
11-20-2010, 12:41 AM
As a few folks have said... I expected amazing offense, but the D has been GREAT... SO active. Kyrie forced a few 5 second calls, Ryan forced a 5 second inbounds call... very active hands and feet... the D, especially on the perimeter, has just been outstanding. When shots aren't falling, you need your D to save you, and I feel like ours is pretty good even at this VERY early point in the season.

Dukeface88
11-20-2010, 12:51 AM
I thought the Plumlees both had fairly good games. They played more effectively and looked more confident, although they obviously need to cut down on fouls. I think the next few games are really critical to their development.


Kyrie looks like the real deal. Can't wait to see how he does against Pullen and Lucas.

Nolan looks has made big strides as a point; he's 2:1 on A/TOs so far. This is going to be really helpful if Kyrie gets in foul trouble again.

Kyle's a warrior. 18 and 9 with food poisoning (which explains his shot being a bit off).

Hairston and Kelly have been very impressive so far. Kelly really does not want to give up that starting spot; he was all over the place tonight. Hairston has been quiet, but I love his hustle. I think he's gonna be a special player.

Dre has really elevated his game. He's moving better without the ball, and is a legit threat in the lane.

Seth struggled a bit tonight, but he still looked pretty good. I think he's still settling into playing a more complementary role.

Tyler continues to be better than I expected. He should be in the picture for the starting point next year.

In general, I've been really encouraged by our bench play so far; it bodes well for next season as well as this one. Looking forward, Marquette's apparently got a pretty good stable of guards and wings. However, they don't have much size, so I don't think our biggest question mark (defense against a dominant post player) is going to be answered just yet.

Kedsy
11-20-2010, 01:26 AM
Curry - I hope he isn't regretting his Transfer to Duke. I know he won't show it, but inside I kinda feel like he's not getting everything he was expecting.. (Not from Duke, but from Himself) Hopefully he was just a little off and that is a bad feeling I've gotten.

I know others have responded to this, but I felt the need to answer as well -- what are you talking about? Seth has so far averaged 23 minutes per game and 14 points per game. What more could he be expecting?

He shot poorly today but still got his points from the free throw line. And no question I'd rather have his stat line (and game result) than Harrison Barnes's tonight.


Plumlees - Gotta do better. We need more from them inside. Sometimes they look like they're trying too hard. Mason had some pointless fouls 30 foot from the basket. Miles just acts like a linebacker sometimes.

Again, others have responded, but again, huh? I realize they both fouled out, and we were playing a weak opponent, but the Plumlees combined to score 18 points on 8 for 11 shooting, pull down 12 rebounds, with 2 blocks and 4 steals. In only 37 minutes. If they were one person playing 37 minutes with those stats they'd undoubtedly be leading the MOTM voting.

Vincetaylor
11-20-2010, 03:00 AM
I know others have responded to this, but I felt the need to answer as well -- what are you talking about? Seth has so far averaged 23 minutes per game and 14 points per game. What more could he be expecting?

He shot poorly today but still got his points from the free throw line. And no question I'd rather have his stat line (and game result) than Harrison Barnes's tonight.



Again, others have responded, but again, huh? I realize they both fouled out, and we were playing a weak opponent, but the Plumlees combined to score 18 points on 8 for 11 shooting, pull down 12 rebounds, with 2 blocks and 4 steals. In only 37 minutes. If they were one person playing 37 minutes with those stats they'd undoubtedly be leading the MOTM voting.

Fouling out in 13 minutes against Colgate is bad. I'm not worried since it is only our 3rd game of the season, but we will need the Plumlees to stay out of foul trouble against the MSU's of the world. Zoubek always had great stats per minute, but he wasn't a good player until he was staying on the court(out of foul trouble) and actually getting those stats.

Dsuke17
11-20-2010, 03:30 AM
Combined numbers were good and some flashes were here and there. But watching the way they fumble rebounds which they should grab or commiting silly fouls, I think we need season long development from both of them in order to compete for NC. Right now, I just don't see our bigs can play against good frontcourt.

But we saw how Lance and Zoubs developed last season, so obviously there is great chance they will develop during the season. I think we will see where our bigs stand in next two weeks when we play some good inside players like Kelly ( if he plays), Green, Roe and Howard. I'm anxious to see how Plumlees and other our bigs will defend and rebound against some good inside players.

DevilHorns
11-20-2010, 08:04 AM
Coach K post game audio and game observations - http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/11/bdn-post-game-thoughts-on-dukes-110-58-win-over-colgate-k-post-game-comments/

Coach K praises the Crusties

"And it's not just the students... the upperdeck... the stands... it's just a really good atmosphere."

oldnavy
11-20-2010, 08:07 AM
You want to know the really cool part of all of this?? Defense is always ahead of offense at this time of year..

What that means is that while our defense is going to get better as the year goes on, and it is already REALLY good, our offense is going to get MUCH better as we go on....

That is a wonderful thought considering the level the offense is already at!!

jv001
11-20-2010, 08:14 AM
You want to know the really cool part of all of this?? Defense is always ahead of offense at this time of year..

What that means is that while our defense is going to get better as the year goes on, and it is already REALLY good, our offense is going to get MUCH better as we go on....

That is a wonderful thought considering the level the offense is already at!!

And I expect the Plumlees to improve as well. Just wish they were stronger in going for rebounds. Lot's of times they seem to take the rebound for granted by going after it with one hand. Good thing is our coaching staff will work that out. This team has the potential to be great. GoDuke!

DevilHorns
11-20-2010, 08:20 AM
The praise is easy. Our perimeter play is phenomenal and completely out-matched whatever Colgate had to offer. That goes from Kyrie, Nolan, and Dre.

Quote from Kyrie (regarding Nolan):

"We're both trying to get double-doubles every night," Irving said. "We can definitely do it on this team, [with] the amount of weapons we have on this team. We're always in competition with one another."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=303230150

You gotta love that!

Seth had a little bit of an off night, and it's clear to me that he has the green light to launch the ball from the moon if he likes. Sometimes I think he could push the ball around but I think he just wanted to get into his groove. He's been generally good in terms of shot selection the first 2 games, but IMHO, took at least a few poor shots vs Colgate. Tyler did make a clearly poor pass on our end of the floor that was stolen for an easy 2. Overall though I think he played well; I can recall one really good athletic drive in the second half for him.

Ryan Kelly just had the best game he's had as a Blue Devil. Just a natural. When he's involved, good things tend to happen. He makes kids around him better. I counted 2 poor plays that he committed all night (the 'over-and-back' pass when he had decent offensive position, and was relaxed slightly on one 3-point attempt by the opposition). Besides that, he was all over the place defensively. Multiple sequences where he was the man causing the play again and again. As K said to his assistants in the Training Days ESPN Special, 'Ryan is going to be Real Good.' K's usually right. :cool:

Needs Improvement? Our rebounding form and our big men's propensity for tickytack fouls. If we run into a team with a strong inside presence (maybe a Sullinger from Ohio State for example, and we'll have a good early season test vs MSU) that will be a true test of our biggest weakness. Right now we can easily sizzle by teams with our perimeter play and athleticism. If someone wants to grind the ball down low against us, how will we respond? That said, Mason is improving, and I think Miles is going to respond to his demotion, but it will take time. Miles has an intensity about him that I think can translate to a very tough rebounder and defensive player. Mason is a bigger weapon, but I think he needs to get a little more rough around the boards to grab some of those loose balls. One thing that I don't really see a lot of on DBR is praise for Mason's passing ability (usually if it's a big man's passing ability, it's praise for Ryan). Mason has a strong and accurate pass in his arsenal. If he rounds out some of his offensive game, he will be an incredible weapon to stretch the D.

slower
11-20-2010, 08:27 AM
But watching the way they fumble rebounds which they should grab ...
But we saw how Lance and Zoubs developed last season, so obviously there is great chance they will develop during the season. I think we will see where our bigs stand in next two weeks when we play some good inside players like Kelly ( if he plays), Green, Roe and Howard. I'm anxious to see how Plumlees and other our bigs will defend and rebound against some good inside players.

Yep. I remember having the EXACT same gripes about Z and Lance last year, so hopefully things will progress similarly this season.

We'll find out in a few days, when the season REALLY starts.

whereinthehellami
11-20-2010, 08:29 AM
Kyrie makes it look easy. His decisions and speed with the ball in traffic are amazing. As far as being a freshman, you can't tell...so far.

Kelly is alot of fun to watch. He is not the fastest or most athletic player but you can see the game slowing down for him. He has an incredible basketball IQ and you can tell he is a gym rat. I'd like to see him exhibit his inner ID and take that 5th spot outright. I think he is close and that the proverbial light bulb is about to go off...big time.

I love that Kyle and Nolan have allowed the rest of the players to deomonstrate their skills. That takes alot of confidence to step back like that as seniors. You just know that when it counts they will step up and take over.

elvis14
11-20-2010, 08:35 AM
I really enjoyed the game last night. A few random thoughts:


Ryan Kelly played a really good, really smart game. Having a big that can hit the 3 is going to give us some great flexibility on offense.
Like others, I'm really enjoying watching Kyrie play. I love the way our pace picks up when he's pushing the ball.
Love Ryan's overall improvement, Dawkins overall improvement, Nolan's improved passing an court vision.
Obviously nobody wants to see MPx2 foul out but I thought they played pretty well. A few of their fouls are things they can change. I thought a few of their fouls were bad calls as well (of course that might be my Duke-bias!). Is it really fair to compare them to Lance and Z? If so, let's remember that both of those guys played great the second half of last year......that's the second half of their senior year!
I watched the game after midnight on ESPN3. It was my first time watching on ESPN3 and it was pretty decent. I also thought Dino did a pretty good job.
I'm really looking forward the next several games. We dont well against the weaker teams and I think we used the games to gel. I think we are ready for some real competition. I can't wait!
If this thread deteriorates into an argument over big vs small lineups I'm going to have to kill some you all :)

Delmer
11-20-2010, 09:19 AM
Didn't see the game, but caught the Miles reverse dunk on the top 10 plays. I was watching Marshall Plumlee here in Arden.

Jderf
11-20-2010, 10:23 AM
Kyrie makes it look easy. His decisions and speed with the ball in traffic are amazing. As far as being a freshman, you can't tell...so far.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that you can't tell he's a freshman. While Kyrie has certainly been spectacular, there are still moments when his youth can bubble to the surface. As one example, he picked up two quick, silly fouls against Miami (OH) and had to sit out most of the first half. Also, though Kyrie has been phenomenal on the fast-break for the most part, occasionally he will force it when he doesn't need to. Hard to imagine Jon doing that his senior year. Obviously I'm not critiquing Kyrie's performance so far in any way. The kid has been simply outstanding. I'm just saying that, for all his poise and talent, he is still (like anyone) prone to the occasional freshman mistake.

Lord Ash
11-20-2010, 10:54 AM
I wouldn't go so far as to say that you can't tell he's a freshman. While Kyrie has certainly been spectacular, there are still moments when his youth can bubble to the surface. As one example, he picked up two quick, silly fouls against Miami (OH) and had to sit out most of the first half. Also, though Kyrie has been phenomenal on the fast-break for the most part, occasionally he will force it when he doesn't need to. Hard to imagine Jon doing that his senior year. Obviously I'm not critiquing Kyrie's performance so far in any way. The kid has been simply outstanding. I'm just saying that, for all his poise and talent, he is still (like anyone) prone to the occasional freshman mistake.

Yes, it is hard to imagine Jon doing that ;)

I'll be honest, I agree that Kyrie hasn't looked at ALL like a freshman, and his three total turnovers really reflect that. He plays SO completely within himself... his poise is superb, the best I've seen of any freshman at Duke in a prominent role.

bird
11-20-2010, 11:21 AM
I am a Kyrie believer. This is better than a Hurley freshman. This is maybe a Wall freshman, maybe even a Carmelo freshman.

He is working hard, interacting well on the court, especially with Nolan and Kyle. Those three just seem to know where each other are when they play together.

He shoots, he pushes, he grabs rebounds, he's chasing stuff off the court.

The skills and quickness and speed - its all there.

Maybe I am gushing because its been a while since we've had a classic point guard at Duke. This makes this team fundamentally different than anything we have seen since Duhon.

oldnavy
11-20-2010, 11:34 AM
Kyrie makes it look easy. His decisions and speed with the ball in traffic are amazing. As far as being a freshman, you can't tell...so far.

Kelly is alot of fun to watch. He is not the fastest or most athletic player but you can see the game slowing down for him. He has an incredible basketball IQ and you can tell he is a gym rat. I'd like to see him exhibit his inner ID and take that 5th spot outright. I think he is close and that the proverbial light bulb is about to go off...big time.

I love that Kyle and Nolan have allowed the rest of the players to deomonstrate their skills. That takes alot of confidence to step back like that as seniors. You just know that when it counts they will step up and take over.

I think he has. He is better than Miles right now and is a better weapon. NO OFFENSE to Miles, I love him, but Ryan is just playing better ball right now. In fact, I will go out a bit on a limb and say he is the best of the bigs right now, although Mason had a very good game last night.

MulletMan
11-20-2010, 11:37 AM
I am a Kyrie believer. This is better than a Hurley freshman. This is maybe a Wall freshman, maybe even a Carmelo freshman.

He is working hard, interacting well on the court, especially with Nolan and Kyle. Those three just seem to know where each other are when they play together.

He shoots, he pushes, he grabs rebounds, he's chasing stuff off the court.

The skills and quickness and speed - its all there.

Maybe I am gushing because its been a while since we've had a classic point guard at Duke. This makes this team fundamentally different than anything we have seen since Duhon.

Your first statement is a little over the top, don't you think? We've seen Kyrie play 3 games. 3... against Colgate, Miami and.... I literally can't remember who else we played...

Yes the skills are there, but I point you to JWill and Will Avery to look at how a freshman PG needs to learn to play the game at the right speed. Both of those guys became much better PGs once they learned that their speed and quickness could be used at specific times to the greatest effect. They didn't need to go 100mph every play with the ball in their hands. Kyrie has not learned this yet, but he will.

For those who didn't see the game, something that didn't show up in the stats was Seth Curry's excellent defense last night. He really was fantastic at locking his man down and deflecting passes. I was impressed, and was less than giddy about his D the first couple of games. Hopefully he can keep it up. There's no way he thought that he was going to transfer to Duke and average 20ppg. Not with this team.

_TheFakeJWill_
11-20-2010, 11:39 AM
I have a feeling that its gonna come down to Sullinger or Irving as freshman of the year. But its still early. I love this new high pace offense from our Devils.

Jderf
11-20-2010, 11:40 AM
I am a Kyrie believer. This is better than a Hurley freshman. This is maybe a Wall freshman, maybe even a Carmelo freshman.

He is working hard, interacting well on the court, especially with Nolan and Kyle. Those three just seem to know where each other are when they play together.

He shoots, he pushes, he grabs rebounds, he's chasing stuff off the court.

The skills and quickness and speed - its all there.

Maybe I am gushing because its been a while since we've had a classic point guard at Duke. This makes this team fundamentally different than anything we have seen since Duhon.

The one thing I absolutely love about Kyrie is his hustle. He hasn't been sitting back and letting his talent carry him through. In the first and last minute of the game, on offense and defense, Kyrie's motor is going at full speed. He is just all over the court, every second of every play.

CampbellBlueDevil
11-20-2010, 11:45 AM
Fouling out in 13 minutes against Colgate is bad. I'm not worried since it is only our 3rd game of the season.

I'm worried... 13 minutes... Colgate???

It's going to be tough for him to get good minutes when we need him against stiffer competition. What's going to happen when he has to try and contain Tracy Smith, Jordan Williams, or Heaven forbid Sullinger.

jimsumner
11-20-2010, 11:46 AM
Didn't see the game, but caught the Miles reverse dunk on the top 10 plays. I was watching Marshall Plumlee here in Arden.

Didn't have a chance to watch Sports Center. But I would have expected Kyrie to make it. I'm thinking of a second-half play. He grabs the defensive rebound, goes coast-to-coast, weaving through traffic, behind the back with his dribble and finishes with a reverse lay-up in traffic.

A seriously impressive move. So fast, yet so completely in control. The epitome of the Wooden axiom, be quick but don't hurry.

ncexnyc
11-20-2010, 11:58 AM
Since I was at work last night and my ESPN3 feed just isn't cutting it this morning, I will base my comments on the Rivals.com play-by-play for the game I followed last night.

The team seemed rather lackluster in the 1st half. From what I could tell both Dawkins and Kelly played well in the 1st stanza, but the stats for everyone else were really poor.
The shooting %'s for Nolan and Kyle were horrific and the Plumlee brothers appeared to be AWOL. I even commented on the in game thread that they had two rebounds between them.

It appears that K must of had a few choice words for the team at halftime, as they came out blistering hot to start the 2nd half. It appears that Kyrie took the game over and Mason started becoming a factor. Nolan's shooting seemed to pick-up as did Seth's.

Three games into the season and I think the results are as to be expected considering who we've played. The next few games should definitely give us a better picture of just how good this team really is. I want to see how we respond to the first solid punch in the face an opponent lands, if one is actually landed.

TaiAdmiral
11-20-2010, 11:58 AM
Colgate highlights from us. Enjoy:

http://www.crazie-talk.com/2010/11/20/section-17-oop-city/

DevilHorns
11-20-2010, 12:42 PM
Didn't have a chance to watch Sports Center. But I would have expected Kyrie to make it. I'm thinking of a second-half play. He grabs the defensive rebound, goes coast-to-coast, weaving through traffic, behind the back with his dribble and finishes with a reverse lay-up in traffic.

A seriously impressive move. So fast, yet so completely in control. The epitome of the Wooden axiom, be quick but don't hurry.

The best part of that play is that the reverse lay-up is a save... it's due to him losing control of the slippery ball in mid-air.

He has the talent and ability to gather his movements in milliseconds while understanding that the hoop is now moving above him, requiring him to do a reverse lay-up. Many a point guard would have dinged the ball off the rim still trying to force a regular lay-up.

You can't teach that.

MChambers
11-20-2010, 12:46 PM
I'm worried... 13 minutes... Colgate???

It's going to be tough for him to get good minutes when we need him against stiffer competition. What's going to happen when he has to try and contain Tracy Smith, Jordan Williams, or Heaven forbid Sullinger.
Just watched the replay on espn3.com. Nice to have that option.

I actually thought Mason played well, like DBR said. He rebounded well, looked at lot better at the free throw line (one was right on line, just long). He didn't take any "why not3s". He passed well, as he always does.

As far as the fouls go, two were really dumb, just like last year. I'll concede that. It's funny because in the Miami game he played 24 minutes without committing a foul. The other three were largely a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm betting he learns to cut down on his fouls.

Kelly looked good. I do think there's an open question about him defending a good big man down low, but he's a smart player, so he's got a chance. And the ball pressure on the guards makes feeding the post difficult.

I thought Miles looked good. (Let's give him credit for his reverse, his left-handed layup, and his hook shot.) I can understand the frustration that some have expressed with both Miles and Mason, because some of their mistakes are so correctable. Also, they are both amazing athletes, but they're not polished basketball players yet. I'm confident they'll improve significantly as the season goes on.

Curry played very well, except for his shot. And even given an off night, he's shooting 50% from 3. (Check out the statistics on ESPN -- we're got four players shooting 50% or more from 3 point range. Smith and especially Singer are actually dragging the team percentage down. How cool is that?)

Irving is the real deal. He makes such good, quick decisions with the ball. He shoots threes. He defends. He's got an unbelievable handle. Wow.

Dawkins really has improved. I was a little worried about his playing time coming in to the season, but no more.

Hairston had some nice moves, but struggled some on defense and at the line. Thornton looked good. I think they'll both be valuable in some key games this year, even if it's only for five minutes.

I haven't been this excited about a Duke team since at least 2001, maybe 1999 or even 1992. I'll leave the worrying to the coaches.

jacone21
11-20-2010, 12:47 PM
...
Yes the skills are there, but I point you to JWill and Will Avery to look at how a freshman PG needs to learn to play the game at the right speed. Both of those guys became much better PGs once they learned that their speed and quickness could be used at specific times to the greatest effect. They didn't need to go 100mph every play with the ball in their hands. Kyrie has not learned this yet, but he will.

...

That's the thing I've been noticing about Kyrie. He does appear to have learned that already.

The series around the 8:30 mark proves it. First he gets the assist to Nolan for a 3, who blows him a kiss in return, btw. :D Then Kyrie gets the next rebound, goes 100 mph to the other end and scores. Then, he gets the outlet pass on the next possession. He has an opportunity to run 100 mph, but the defense is back. So he waits... waits... and hits the trailer, Ryan for another assist. 8-0 run. Perfect decision making on 3 consecutive plays.

I know he's going to have some ups and downs, but Kyrie is the real deal.

uh_no
11-20-2010, 01:18 PM
I have a feeling that its gonna come down to Sullinger or Irving as freshman of the year. But its still early. I love this new high pace offense from our Devils.

wait....i thought SI already named barnes as the best freshman of all time....

Kedsy
11-20-2010, 01:34 PM
I think he has. He is better than Miles right now and is a better weapon. NO OFFENSE to Miles, I love him, but Ryan is just playing better ball right now. In fact, I will go out a bit on a limb and say he is the best of the bigs right now, although Mason had a very good game last night.

I voted for Ryan for MOTM; I'm a big fan. But I wouldn't say he's locked down the starting gig just yet. He only played 16 minutes to Miles's 24, and Miles played very strong defense, had a slightly better +/- per 40 and corralled 8 rebounds (although his per 40 rebound rate was only a little better than Ryan's, 13.0 to 12.5). So I don't think we've seen the end of the competition for the 5 spot.


I'm worried... 13 minutes... Colgate???

It's going to be tough for him to get good minutes when we need him against stiffer competition. What's going to happen when he has to try and contain Tracy Smith, Jordan Williams, or Heaven forbid Sullinger.

Well, first of all, Mason has for the most part been guarding the other team's "4," and all the people you've named are "5"s, meaning Miles or Ryan would be guarding them. Second, Mason didn't get his fouls trying to stop a bruiser from taking a strong post move to the hoop. Colgate didn't have any bruisers. IIRC, two of them were at the perimeter and one was in the backcourt. For both reasons, your question seems irrelevant.

I don't think you can extrapolate anything from the Colgate game. I suggest we wait and see how Mason plays against the stiffer competition over the next couple of weeks before we start wringing our hands.

Gthoma2a
11-20-2010, 01:39 PM
Kyrie will have Freshman of the Year once we start playing decent competition. He gets the luxory of sitting down for extended periods of time with this team. We are too deep for him to fully shine yet. Once we get to teams that we don't blow out (as badly), we will get to leave him on the court longer, and then he will shine as the star freshman of the season. I think he already has, but there is a limited basis for my claim considering how easily we are winning.

Newton_14
11-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Since I was at work last night and my ESPN3 feed just isn't cutting it this morning, I will base my comments on the Rivals.com play-by-play for the game I followed last night.

The team seemed rather lackluster in the 1st half. From what I could tell both Dawkins and Kelly played well in the 1st stanza, but the stats for everyone else were really poor.
The shooting %'s for Nolan and Kyle were horrific and the Plumlee brothers appeared to be AWOL. I even commented on the in game thread that they had two rebounds between them.

It appears that K must of had a few choice words for the team at halftime, as they came out blistering hot to start the 2nd half. It appears that Kyrie took the game over and Mason started becoming a factor. Nolan's shooting seemed to pick-up as did Seth's.

Three games into the season and I think the results are as to be expected considering who we've played. The next few games should definitely give us a better picture of just how good this team really is. I want to see how we respond to the first solid punch in the face an opponent lands, if one is actually landed.

I have not posted my game thoughts yet, but trust me, the game went nothing like you read into it from the play by play. Duke came out incredibly focused and played smothering defense. Kyrie hit 3 early 3's, and there was nothing at all wrong with Kyle and Nolan's play. Good looks that rimmed out. Kelly played really well also. Really no kid played badly in the early going.

InSpades
11-20-2010, 01:56 PM
Kyrie will have Freshman of the Year once we start playing decent competition. He gets the luxory of sitting down for extended periods of time with this team. We are too deep for him to fully shine yet. Once we get to teams that we don't blow out (as badly), we will get to leave him on the court longer, and then he will shine as the star freshman of the season. I think he already has, but there is a limited basis for my claim considering how easily we are winning.

I definitely think Kyrie is kind of just letting the game flow right now. It's sort of what I see from Nolan and Kyle as well. That "I could take over but let's see who else is ready to step up" kind of attitude. At times Kyrie just seems to want to take over a game. He'll have a 3 possession spurt where he just dominates and it seems like he could do it more often but there's really no need. He's content to get his assists and move the ball around.

It's kind of amazing that Duke has 10 guys averaging between 11.3 (Tyler) and 26.7 (Nolan) minutes so far this season. There's also 5 guys averaging double figures. It will be interesting to see how this changes as the competition increases. Hopefully Duke can stick w/ a deep bench as it will benefit them for years to come getting so many players so much meaningful time on the court.

airowe
11-20-2010, 02:23 PM
But I wouldn't say he's locked down the starting gig just yet. He only played 16 minutes to Miles's 24, and Miles played very strong defense, had a slightly better +/- per 40 and corralled 8 rebounds (although his per 40 rebound rate was only a little better than Ryan's, 13.0 to 12.5). So I don't think we've seen the end of the competition for the 5 spot.

As you and others said in the other thread, I think it's less that Ryan has "won" the starting job as it is that Ryan and Mason work better together on the court and Miles coming in with Andre provides a more post-oriented center than it would with Ryan.

With this much talent it should not be seen as a slight that a player doesn't start. It should just be clear that the lineup combinations work better the way the staff has chosen to implement them.

Although, Ryan has played very, very well for the last two games. As K said in the All-Access videos, "Ryan is a weapon." On a team with less talent around him, Ryan would be shining right now. He has a high ceiling and I think we'll see him get closer to it as the year goes on...

CampbellBlueDevil
11-20-2010, 02:38 PM
Well, first of all, Mason has for the most part been guarding the other team's "4," and all the people you've named are "5"s, meaning Miles or Ryan would be guarding them. Second, Mason didn't get his fouls trying to stop a bruiser from taking a strong post move to the hoop. Colgate didn't have any bruisers. IIRC, two of them were at the perimeter and one was in the backcourt. For both reasons, your question seems irrelevant.

I don't think you can extrapolate anything from the Colgate game. I suggest we wait and see how Mason plays against the stiffer competition over the next couple of weeks before we start wringing our hands.

Mason, as well as Miles, need to be able to play defense without giving up silly fouls. And by saying he picked up those fouls away from the basket makes it even more of a worrisome matter. If you feel that Mason will not be guarding any bruisers at some point during a tough match up, then I guess it doesn't matter. However, I believe Mason will be spending significant minutes this year matching up against back to the basket opponents and will spend less time guarding on the perimeter.

I can extrapolate plenty from this Colgate match up.... Mason is still giving up the fouls that he did last year. I also know that Colgate is nowhere near an Ohio State, so I would expect there to be a bigger problem against higher tier teams. Contrary to last year, we don't have Zoubek nor LT to split fouls between. We have Kelly, Singler, and Hairston (I don't think that any of those three will have the defensive impact as Zoubs or LT, and Singler will be spending minutes on the wing). I'm not worried about these fouls when it comes to facing smaller teams. I believe we will have some struggles against bigger bodied teams who run their offense through the post. This is where I am concerned about foul trouble.

I know we'll be more than fine this season and the coaches will figure something out, but as of this game Mason has work to do in order to cut back on fouls.

Indoor66
11-20-2010, 03:12 PM
As you and others said in the other thread, I think it's less that Ryan has "won" the starting job as it is that Ryan and Mason work better together on the court and Miles coming in with Andre provides a more post-oriented center than it would with Ryan.

With this much talent it should not be seen as a slight that a player doesn't start. It should just be clear that the lineup combinations work better the way the staff has chosen to implement them.

Although, Ryan has played very, very well for the last two games. As K said in the All-Access videos, "Ryan is a weapon." On a team with less talent around him, Ryan would be shining right now. He has a high ceiling and I think we'll see him get closer to it as the year goes on...

IRRC, Ryan was the highest ranked HS player of all our 6'10"+ players. He can shoot and has tremendous court awareness - both on offense and defense. Ryan may well turn out the best college player of our bigs (excluding Kyle).

Kedsy
11-20-2010, 04:42 PM
Contrary to last year, we don't have Zoubek nor LT to split fouls between.

Last year we split the fouls among Z, Lance, Miles, and Mason. This year it will be Miles, Mason, Ryan, and Josh. Same number of fouls to give in both seasons. Although in a way it's better this year, because last year's foursome had to play 80 minutes a game while this year's group only has to make it through 70, assuming Kyle plays 10 minutes at the 4.

As far as Miles and Mason picking up more fouls against Ohio State than Colgate, my point was we haven't seen them fouling when matched up with an offense-minded big man, so we don't know if they're more prone to foul in those situations. Their unfortunate tendencies to reach in or try ill-advised blocks from behind aren't applicable or relevant to how they play post defense. And I don't think they'll pick up any more ticky tack fouls against good teams than they do against bad teams. Those silly perimeter fouls are due to a lack of concentration and there's no reason to think they'd occur more frequently against a better team.

CDu
11-20-2010, 04:57 PM
Last year we split the fouls among Z, Lance, Miles, and Mason. This year it will be Miles, Mason, Ryan, and Josh. Same number of fouls to give in both seasons. Although in a way it's better this year, because last year's foursome had to play 80 minutes a game while this year's group only has to make it through 70, assuming Kyle plays 10 minutes at the 4.

Yes, but last year the Plumlees weren't asked to play the majority of the minutes in the post. They averaged ~30mpg. Zoubek and Thomas averaged 44mpg, and that number was increasing as the season wore on. And Zoubek and Thomas were more experienced than Kelly and Hairston. This year, while the team only needs about 65-70mpg from the bigs as opposed to ~75mpg (the combined average for the four main bigs last year), we are expecting a larger percentage of those minutes to be the responsibility of the Plumlees. If they don't improve with regards to fouls, that either puts a lot of pressure on Kelly and Hairston or it means we have to play small (not necessarily a problem, but it does limit our options).


As far as Miles and Mason picking up more fouls against Ohio State than Colgate, my point was we haven't seen them fouling when matched up with an offense-minded big man, so we don't know if they're more prone to foul in those situations. Their unfortunate tendencies to reach in or try ill-advised blocks from behind aren't applicable or relevant to how they play post defense. And I don't think they'll pick up any more ticky tack fouls against good teams than they do against bad teams. Those silly perimeter fouls are due to a lack of concentration and there's no reason to think they'd occur more frequently against a better team.

While we don't know with certainty, we can probably make reasonable guesses. Better teams (especially teams that have better offensive weapons in the post) are more likely to draw fouls than bad teams. Therefore, it stands to reason that everyone is a bit more likely to commit a foul against a better team than they are against a really bad team. So if the silly fouls don't decrease, foul trouble could be a very big problem for the Plumlees against better teams.

Hopefully it doesn't turn out that way. But I don't think it's an unreasonable thought that if foul trouble appears against bad teams, it's likely to be a bigger concern against good teams. It's certainly something to keep an eye on in my opinion.

karndogs
11-20-2010, 08:55 PM
Combined numbers were good and some flashes were here and there. But watching the way they fumble rebounds which they should grab or commiting silly fouls, I think we need season long development from both of them in order to compete for NC. Right now, I just don't see our bigs can play against good frontcourt.

But we saw how Lance and Zoubs developed last season, so obviously there is great chance they will develop during the season. I think we will see where our bigs stand in next two weeks when we play some good inside players like Kelly ( if he plays), Green, Roe and Howard. I'm anxious to see how Plumlees and other our bigs will defend and rebound against some good inside players.


I agree with this. This is the first time that the Plumlees will be the primary post players. There are going to be some growing pains and they should be expected. I am personally both frustrated and excited with the Plumlees, as silly as that may seem. I'm really hoping that they continue with their improvement (yes, they are improving) and find their roles by March. Here's to plenty of alley oops to the Plums throughout the year!

Newton_14
11-20-2010, 08:55 PM
Personally I think folks are making way too much of the Plumlee's fouling. Mason did not have "5 silly fouls 80 feet from the basket" last night. He had 1 bad foul that being the 5th. He hedged out and made the mistake of reaching in.

His 4th foul came on a hustle play off a long offensive rebound. Mason knocked the ball away from the Colgate player in the far corner, the ref called a foul, and K went nuts. On the ref, not Mason. The other 3 fouls came during interior scrum's, and one of those 3 should have actually been called on Kyle. I had a good view from where I was sitting and Mason did not foul the guy there.

Miles actually played deep into the game with no foul trouble and got hit with a few quick one's, again, mostly on hustle plays. He only had a couple where he was caught out of position or taking the wrong angle. He also had a couple of good blocks and played good interior defense most of the night. Mason also played good interior defense for the most part.

They certainly have room for improvement but Mason especially has improved a lot since last year.

The thing is, Duke is playing highly intense in your face defense 1 thru 5. K not only has the guards and wings pressing their man everywhere, the bigs are doing the same thing. This early in the season that kind of style will lead to more fouls than normal. Also having the depth we have will lend itself to taking more risks.

Let's see how they do next week when the competition stiffens. Given that they stayed in the rotation all of last year on a National Title team, they have experience against the toughest of opponents. They will make mistakes along the way but should get better and better as we move forward. Give them time. We are only 3 games into the season and neither the Plumlee's nor the team itself are anywhere near a finished product.

hq2
11-21-2010, 07:28 PM
This is the first time that the Plumlees will be the primary post players. There are going to be some growing pains and they should be expected. I am personally both frustrated and excited with the Plumlees, as silly as that may seem. I'm really hoping that they continue with their improvement (yes, they are improving) and find their roles by March

Yes, they'll get better, but I'd have to say unless we see a Zoubs-like rebirth from Miles (which is always possible) it's hard to see him doing much more. This is his third year and he hasn't improved all that much, so I wouldn't expect too much more from him. With Mason, who knows. There are lots of possibilities, but still no consistency. Hopefully, by late season, he might be good for a steady 8-10 points, 8-10 rebounds against quality comp. Actually, I'd say if the two could give us maybe 12 or 14 points together at the 5, that would be enough. We have so many other quality scoring options, as long as they board and defend well, we don't need them to do much scoring. We should be fine.

NSDukeFan
11-21-2010, 08:20 PM
Yes, they'll get better, but I'd have to say unless we see a Zoubs-like rebirth from Miles (which is always possible) it's hard to see him doing much more. This is his third year and he hasn't improved all that much, so I wouldn't expect too much more from him. With Mason, who knows. There are lots of possibilities, but still no consistency. Hopefully, by late season, he might be good for a steady 8-10 points, 8-10 rebounds against quality comp. Actually, I'd say if the two could give us maybe 12 or 14 points together at the 5, that would be enough. We have so many other quality scoring options, as long as they board and defend well, we don't need them to do much scoring. We should be fine.

I thought Miles improved tremendously between his freshman and sophomore years, and heard great things about his improvement over the summer. I expect this year he will be much improved over last year. I am not ready to write him off after 3 games this year.

Kedsy
11-21-2010, 08:30 PM
Yes, they'll get better, but I'd have to say unless we see a Zoubs-like rebirth from Miles (which is always possible) it's hard to see him doing much more. This is his third year and he hasn't improved all that much, so I wouldn't expect too much more from him. With Mason, who knows. There are lots of possibilities, but still no consistency. Hopefully, by late season, he might be good for a steady 8-10 points, 8-10 rebounds against quality comp. Actually, I'd say if the two could give us maybe 12 or 14 points together at the 5, that would be enough. We have so many other quality scoring options, as long as they board and defend well, we don't need them to do much scoring. We should be fine.

I agree that 12 or 14 points combined would be enough. However, I think hoping Mason can get 8 to 10 rebounds a game against good competition is more than a bit of a stretch. Last year in the entire ACC only six players topped 8 rebounds per game (Al-Farouq Aminu (the only one who got as many as 10), Ed Davis, Gani Lawal, Derrick Favors, Trevor Booker, and Jordan Williams), and that was against all competition, good and bad. Not only that, all of them averaged 30+ minutes except Davis and Favors (and they both averaged 27 and were lottery picks), while Mason so far is averaging 19 minutes and by the end of the season might be up to 24 or so, but probably not more. There is almost no chance Mason averages 8+ rebounds a game this year.

As far as seeing no improvement from Miles in three years, wow. I know we had a lot of improved players from 2008-09 to 2009-10, but you could make a decent argument that Miles was the most improved player we had between 08-09 and 09-10 (and if he wasn't, it was only because Nolan, Z, Lance, and Jon all improved so much as well). If you think Miles is the same player we saw when he was a freshman, then I don't know what to say to you.

hq2
11-21-2010, 08:48 PM
If you think Miles is the same player we saw when he was a freshman, then I don't know what to say to you.

No, he's gotten better, just not good enough. As a freshman he was almost a non-factor. Now, he's a decent bench player. That's a significant improvement. However, he was not then, and is not now a reliable post scoring player. If he were going to have shown he could do that on a consistent basis, he should be doing it by about now. I'm not saying it won't happen at all; however, if he hasn't shown it by now, I don't think it's all that likely it will happen.

In the end, I don't think it makes much of a difference. The rest of the team (Mason included) is so good that we don't need many points from him anyway. All he needs to do is rebound and play adequate defense, and he can do that. That's all that matters.

AZLA
11-21-2010, 08:52 PM
Agreed, that's a bit of a harsh statement to say Miles hasn't improved. Any NCAA coach would be thrilled to have either Plumlee on their team. In fact, they're right on track and now have room to come into their own. I fully expect both of them will season, much like Zoubs did mid-season last year in his role. Obviously they bring an entirely different dynamic. I'm a big fan of the Plumlees and fully anticipate a game where one or both of them, get really physical in the middle against a power opponent and turn in a career performance. I'm hoping its against Michigan State. They turn out tough rebounders with Izzo's "war" drill -- and Duke's going to need the Plumlees to go to war inside as well. Can't wait for that game.

Newton_14
11-21-2010, 09:08 PM
No, he's gotten better, just not good enough. As a freshman he was almost a non-factor. Now, he's a decent bench player. That's a significant improvement. However, he was not then, and is not now a reliable post scoring player. If he were going to have shown he could do that on a consistent basis, he should be doing it by about now. I'm not saying it won't happen at all; however, if he hasn't shown it by now, I don't think it's all that likely it will happen.

In the end, I don't think it makes much of a difference. The rest of the team (Mason included) is so good that we don't need many points from him anyway. All he needs to do is rebound and play adequate defense, and he can do that. That's all that matters.

Miles started 25 games last year playing the majority of the minutes at the center position during that time, on a team that went 21-4 during his starts and went on to win all of the championships available. He is certainly better than a "decent bench player". K has even stated 2 times this year that Miles was not demoted and that he was tinkering with line ups. People put way too much emphasis on stats, mainly scoring points.

Miles has not been asked to be a "reliable post scorer". We have never made it a point of emphasis to post him up and feed him the ball on a regular basis. Therefore, it isn't exactly fair to criticize him for not doing something he hasn't been asked to do.

We have plenty of scoring on this team. If Miles gives us 8 to 10 points a game that is a bonus. Against Colgate he went 4 of 6 from the floor and finished with 9 points, 8 rebounds, 1 Block, and 3 steals in 24 minutes in a game where the team scored 110 points. Yet all people want to talk about is that he fouled out and label him a decent bench player.

We are right back in the Lance/Zoubs syndrome where if a big guy does not get 20 and 10 then obviously they can't play a lick and should be replaced.

COYS
11-22-2010, 11:35 AM
One last comment on this game. We got some easy buckets off of inbounds plays continuing a trend that we've had all season (and some of last season as well). In addition, Nolan and Kyle missed a few open jumpers off of inbounds plays that I think they'll start to knock down. This is a lost art among many teams and Coach K has got to be excited at the inbounds play execution of the team so far. I'll be interested to see if this continues to be a source of easy buckets against quality competition. If so, it will play a big role in keeping our offense efficient against tougher competition.

MChambers
11-22-2010, 11:58 AM
Personally I think folks are making way too much of the Plumlee's fouling. Mason did not have "5 silly fouls 80 feet from the basket" last night. He had 1 bad foul that being the 5th. He hedged out and made the mistake of reaching in.

His 4th foul came on a hustle play off a long offensive rebound. Mason knocked the ball away from the Colgate player in the far corner, the ref called a foul, and K went nuts. On the ref, not Mason. The other 3 fouls came during interior scrum's, and one of those 3 should have actually been called on Kyle. I had a good view from where I was sitting and Mason did not foul the guy there.

Miles actually played deep into the game with no foul trouble and got hit with a few quick one's, again, mostly on hustle plays. He only had a couple where he was caught out of position or taking the wrong angle. He also had a couple of good blocks and played good interior defense most of the night. Mason also played good interior defense for the most part.

They certainly have room for improvement but Mason especially has improved a lot since last year.

The thing is, Duke is playing highly intense in your face defense 1 thru 5. K not only has the guards and wings pressing their man everywhere, the bigs are doing the same thing. This early in the season that kind of style will lead to more fouls than normal. Also having the depth we have will lend itself to taking more risks.

Let's see how they do next week when the competition stiffens. Given that they stayed in the rotation all of last year on a National Title team, they have experience against the toughest of opponents. They will make mistakes along the way but should get better and better as we move forward. Give them time. We are only 3 games into the season and neither the Plumlee's nor the team itself are anywhere near a finished product.

I agree with the thrust of your post, but feel obliged to point out that one foul (I think the 3rd) was 90 feet from the basket and very dumb. Gaudio immediately pointed it out.

Still, I'm optimistic about Mason's progress.

How about those two-hand overhead outlet passes? He looked like Wes Unseld out there!

COYS
11-22-2010, 12:06 PM
How about those two-hand overhead outlet passes? He looked like Wes Unseld out there!

Nice observation! We've had some great fast break points this year that were made possible not by Irving's speed, but by Mason making a great outlet pass to guard who then makes another outlet pass to another guard who nails the wideopen three. This is one of Mason's strengths and combined with Irving's quickness makes Duke a threat to hit the opposition on the break in a variety of ways.

juise
11-22-2010, 12:15 PM
Did anybody catch Andre's comments (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205034484) from the game?


On the depth at the guard spot and the group's ability to play no matter who is on the court:
"We feel like we're one of the better perimeters in the country. Each guy coming off the bench, we don't' look at ourselves as bench players. We're just basketball players. We come in and we know that we have to keep the energy level up and the level of play up. They'll pull us out and put Nolan [Smith] right back in. Like you saw last year, Nolan played 40 minutes. We know we need to do our job because they'll put Nolan right back in."

I wasn't quite sure what to make of the underlined portion. I don't think that Andre is saying that he has to look over his shoulder or that he's frustrated with his role. I think he's saying that Nolan is conditioned well enough to play the whole game, so his level of play/energy has to be somewhere near Nolan's if he's going to stay on the floor. Fortunately, Andre has shown a great improvement in multiple aspects of his game over the summer. I'm looking forward to his contribution and continued improvement this season.

COYS
11-22-2010, 12:28 PM
Did anybody catch Andre's comments (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205034484) from the game?



I wasn't quite sure what to make of the underlined portion. I don't think that Andre is saying that he has to look over his shoulder or that he's frustrated with his role. I think he's saying that Nolan is conditioned well enough to play the whole game, so his level of play/energy has to be somewhere near Nolan's if he's going to stay on the floor. Fortunately, Andre has shown a great improvement in multiple aspects of his game over the summer. I'm looking forward to his contribution and continued improvement this season.

I definitely don't think it's a "look over the shoulder" comment. He's saying that Nolan is a champion and fully capable of playing 40 minutes per game. If he wants to earn minutes, he has to play at a high level. I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. The fact that he and Seth are earning minutes and performing at a high level just shows how well they are playing.

Kedsy
11-22-2010, 12:30 PM
Did anybody catch Andre's comments (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205034484) from the game?



I wasn't quite sure what to make of the underlined portion. I don't think that Andre is saying that he has to look over his shoulder or that he's frustrated with his role. I think he's saying that Nolan is conditioned well enough to play the whole game, so his level of play/energy has to be somewhere near Nolan's if he's going to stay on the floor. Fortunately, Andre has shown a great improvement in multiple aspects of his game over the summer. I'm looking forward to his contribution and continued improvement this season.

I agree with you, I don't think he was saying he's frustrated. I think he was saying the non-starters all know they can't let up for a moment while they're playing because there's an All-American sitting on the bench who is anxious to get on the court and if they don't play their hardest he'll come back in sooner rather than later.

dball
11-22-2010, 12:49 PM
I agree with you, I don't think he was saying he's frustrated. I think he was saying the non-starters all know they can't let up for a moment while they're playing because there's an All-American sitting on the bench who is anxious to get on the court and if they don't play their hardest he'll come back in sooner rather than later.

This is the way I interpreted it as well. Nolan is perfectly capable of playing all 40 minutes so minutes are not guaranteed. He (and Seth) have to play at that same high level.

Andre has really impressed me this year. I'm reminded of the Connecticut game last year where he played "pretty good" defense and scored in double figures. He showed such promise then and I feel he (understandably) really was knocked back after the accident.

This year his defense is strong and he's shooting with confidence. Really think he's played well so far.

dball
11-22-2010, 12:53 PM
As far as seeing no improvement from Miles in three years, wow. I know we had a lot of improved players from 2008-09 to 2009-10, but you could make a decent argument that Miles was the most improved player we had between 08-09 and 09-10 (and if he wasn't, it was only because Nolan, Z, Lance, and Jon all improved so much as well). If you think Miles is the same player we saw when he was a freshman, then I don't know what to say to you.

I agree. Reading some of the negative comments about Miles confuses me. It's like I must be watching a different game. Miles has played really solidly defensively while contributing what is asked offensively.

MChambers
11-22-2010, 01:53 PM
I agree. Reading some of the negative comments about Miles confuses me. It's like I must be watching a different game. Miles has played really solidly defensively while contributing what is asked offensively.
Agreed. I've been happy with Miles's play and he's obviously a lot over the last two years, even if Duke's big man coach isn't a seven footer.

NSDukeFan
11-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Did anybody catch Andre's comments (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205034484) from the game?



I wasn't quite sure what to make of the underlined portion. I don't think that Andre is saying that he has to look over his shoulder or that he's frustrated with his role. I think he's saying that Nolan is conditioned well enough to play the whole game, so his level of play/energy has to be somewhere near Nolan's if he's going to stay on the floor. Fortunately, Andre has shown a great improvement in multiple aspects of his game over the summer. I'm looking forward to his contribution and continued improvement this season.

I didn't get to see the ESPN All-Access segments, but did watch the highlights that were posted on the website and this reminds me of what coach K was saying at one point to Ryan, I believe. When he comes in the game (and I assume he says this to all the subs) they have to increase the level of play, be a contributor, talk more, do something to improve the team while they are out there. I wonder if Andre was speaking to a certain point about this. He (and Seth and whoever else comes off the bench) need to contribute especially on the perimeter, as Kyle and Nolan can play all day, so they are not going into the game to provide minutes, but to make an impact. That's my interpretation, without any inside knowledge.