MBB: Duke 79 Miami OH 45 Post Game Thread

[Newton_14]

Post your thoughts on the game here. Great performance by the good guys, especially on defense.

[mapei]

I would say excellent D and rebounding, very good 3-pt shooting, a little inconsistent otherwise. No one stood out much more than anyone else, but my MOTM is Mason for all those boards. Miles is going to have a very sore hand for a while.

[JohnGalt]

Post your thoughts on the game here. Great performance by the good guys, especially on defense.

Not surprisingly, those with the inside scoop were spot on:

The level in which Dawkins and Kelly are playing is on a different planet than last year. Size and skill wise they've shown a tremendous level of maturation. Both are noticieably more confident on the floor. It's fun to watch.

Also...Seth and Andre are instant action. Money from three.

[weezie]

I am falling in love with Seth Curry's shot and that crazy right hand spin out.
It is bad nasty sweet.

[SCMatt33]

Great defense tonight. Miami only scored 45 and had to hit some tough shots to even get that much. The defense was aided a little by Miami sending all five guys back on defense and not even attempting to get offensive rebounds for most of the game. Duke actually had over 87% of the defensive rebounds, which is a ridiculous number and evidence of Miami's strategy.

I also liked Kyrie's ability to take over with a 7-0 run in the second half after losing some minutes in the game with early fouls.

[Bluedevil114]

Duke will be very good. I expected more scoring tonight. Duke had too many turnovers and shooting went cold in spots. I think there was not enough movement of the ball with some quick shots. Mason was active on the defense but still looks a little lost on the offensive side. Free throw shooting was also off tonight compared to our first game.

The great thing is that this team is very good and has a lot to work on. I think the constant change in line ups does not allow a player to get hot. It will get better, I just was not overly impressed on the offensive side of the ball.

Defensively we were better really forcing Ohio to start with the ball outside the three line and Ohio was forced to put up long shots with hands in their faces.

[NSDukeFan]

I was very impressed with Seth offensively. My impression from this one game is that Mason and Andre have both come along very well on the defensive end. They both seemed to know where to be in help side most of the time. All in all a pretty solid performance, yielding in the 30s until a couple of garbage time buckets.

[mapei]

The level in which Dawkins and Kelly are playing is on a different planet than last year. Size and skill wise they've shown a tremendous level maturation. Both are noticieably more confident on the floor.

Totally agree.

[-bdbd]

Watched the game on espn360.com

Kinda fun when fans are saying "we just don't look sharp tonight" (in-game thread), and we still win easily by 35. And it coulda have been 50 if we'd kept the pedal down.

Obviously some things to work on, but this is clearly a VERY good team. Kyrie brings sooooo much to the table. Nice to see that speed, once again, in a Duke uni. Seth had a great game -- I hope he keeps scoring like that, as he ceretainly has the ability. Our bigs seemed more aggressive tonight, as something was certainly said after the poor frontcourt showing vs Princeton.

Is it me, or isn't this just a much more fun brand of BB to watch (compared with some recent teams)?

[sagegrouse]

Post your thoughts on the game here. Great performance by the good guys, especially on defense.

I watched the game in a bar in DC, where there were a lot of TVs. I heard some yelling and joined a group of Duke fans in the other room. Only these weren't grads; they were off-duty bartenders plus a couple who were working that night. And they were cheering the plays of Mason and Ryan and Seth and Kyrie.

Maybe there will be more support for Duke in the hinterlands this year.

sagegrouse
'Well, some of the bartenders could have been grads'
'I also think it helps when your Coach is viewed as a national treasure, after the Olympics and the World Championships (and NCAA #4)'

[Saratoga2]

From game tracker, I got the impression that Kyle had a dreadful night shooting the ball.. That said, Seth, Kyrie in the 2nd half, Andre, Mason, Nolan and Kelly all provided scoring punch. This team has so many options, and it is unlikely that Singler's shooting will be off as much in games going forward.

Defense was good throughout and it wasn't until the last few minutes that Miami of O put up a few points to close the gap below 40.

Be interested in the comments of those who watched the game live.

[ajgoodfella7]

All in all a nice defensive effort. Most impressive to me were Andre and Seth tonight on both sides of the ball. Coach didn't overstate when he said how much Dawkins had improved from last year. He hasn't had many lapses because it seems like he knows exactly where he is supposed to be right now.

When Singler shoots 3-10 from the floor and we win by 34 points, I'd say that is very encouraging. If this had been last year, I don't think Duke would have had such a big margin of victory.

It's obvious Coach has preached defense all through the preseason, and so far, so good on that front.

And Seth Curry's shooting stroke is just ridiculous. I'm pretty sure I know who I want to shoot the big free throw down the stretch.

[delfrio]

Random thoughts... I am really liking Dre's development, it will be really interesting to see how he and Curry compete with/play off of each other. I was impressed with Kyrie tonight even if he didn't do much scoring, he always seems to be in the right place for rebounds. Josh needs to work on his court awareness and Tyler on staying in front of his man. At least they looked confident. Nolan's move where he waited for Mason to set a screen and then faked off of it for a lay-in was fantastic.

[mapei]

From game tracker, I got the impression that Kyle had a dreadful night shooting the ball.. That said, Seth, Kyrie in the 2nd half, Andre, Mason, Nolan and Kelly all provided scoring punch. This team has so many options, and it is unlikely that Singler's shooting will be off as much in games going forward.

Defense was good throughout and it wasn't until the last few minutes that Miami of O put up a few points to close the gap below 40.

Be interested in the comments of those who watched the game live.

I think our shooting was a bit off in general, other then the 3s, which seemed very good.

[loran16]

Duke wins by 34, and really won by over 40 before we stopped trying.

Pace = 69 Duke Possessions if i counted correctly (FG+TO-OR+.42*FT). That's slower than our super fast pace last game (77), though faster than last year. In the first half, we played much slower, as we were without Kyrie. It's interesting, it's like we have two gears, with Kyrie and without. One gear doesn't clearly seem better than the other just yet.

Assuming I have that number correct, we had 1.14 Points per possession (pretty good, not insane), while allowing just 0.67 PPP (Insanely good). Simply put, the Defense is clicking. The offense not so much. That said, we have yet to face a team with actual big men yet.

The Offense is really raw (and yet still put up 1.14 PPP). Right now, occasional bursts by Nolan and Singler and 3 point shooting are keeping us with a reasonable amount of offensive output, but well, the amazingness of Kyrie or our post play didn't show up today.

Mason had a good day, or so it seemed. But you have to remember, today we went small for most of the game with mason at the 5, Singler at the 4, and 3 guards. Mason got 24 minutes, No one else got more than 16, and Miles only had 6 in the first half (and Kelly around 10 at most). The points were good (but he needs to sink FTs), but he really needs for someone to get him the ball to be effective.

Mason's rebounding #s are overrated today. Only 3 of his boards were offensive and well he was teh sole big guy on the floor, of course he was going to pick up defensive boards.

Other big game were mostly negligible, though Kelly showed flashes (including a 3). Should be interesting to see if he starts again.

-----

On a pure good standpoint, Seth Curry was the MVP of this game. 4-7 shooting (3-4 from range) and 6-6 from the FT line. He clearly outplayed Dre after being outperformed in game 1. Should be very interesting to keep track of.

----------------------------------
6 Days till Marquette, 7 days till Zaga/KState if we win that. 6 days to prepare and fix our offense. Should be interesting. (Of course we have colgate in between, but yeah...)

[lotusland]

Good to see Mason get a double double. Hopefully this will be a confidence builder for him. I don't know if I have ever seen so many uncontested rebounds though. Miles struggled again but he did score on a post up baby hookish type shot so kudos for that. Additional Kudos for getting his dislocated finger reset on the court and remaining in the game even after clanking the free throws. I thought we saw some flashes of greatness in the transition game so we just need to continue to iron out the wronkles as we get closer to conference play. Dre and Seth are just killers from the perimeter and Dre looks so much more confident on both sides of the ball. Ryan has also improved and probably earned more PT. Nolan looked good distributing the ball tonight and Seth also had a nice assist or two so I would say we have 4 guys who can play point if necessary but KI is a natural. That was so much fun I think I'll watch the replay on ESPN3 now!

[Newton_14]

Not surprisingly, those with the inside scoop were spot on:

The level in which Dawkins and Kelly are playing is on a different planet than last year. Size and skill wise they've shown a tremendous level maturation. Both are noticieably more confident on the floor. It's fun to watch.

Also...Seth and Andre are instant action. Money from three.

Agree!

First and foremost, the defense tonight was outstanding. K said the other night that the walkon's did not play because there was much work to be done. I think that by playing them tonight he was sending the message that he was pleased with the performance.

Defense was the theme of the night and just about every guy out there played good to great defense. We also rebounded much better than the Princeton game. Great ball pressure on point and on the wings and good rotations and pressure by the bigs.

The great thing about having Seth and Andre come off the bench is: Instant Offense! That is huge. The various big line ups including the starting 5 (with tonight having Ryan in place of Miles) are still finding their way on establishing an offensive rhythm, and Kyrie picking up 2 early fouls did not help that either, but those line ups defended really well.

Then comes the snipers off the bench and so far they have not disappointed. Both are deadly shooters and Andre is getting better game by game with putting the ball on the floor and driving. His defense is miles better than it was last year. Seth is also showing to be good at ball pressure.

Mason, after starting with 2 turnovers and a foul, settled down and had his best game of the year with the double/double. The alley oop from Seth was an alarmingly un-athletic great play. He made it look easy.

Kyrie had the one stretch where he just took over, as did Nolan. Kyle is Kyle and Nolan is Nolan so no worries at all there. Kelly had a nice game and played solid. Miles played good defense but still needs to pick up the rebounding. He is moving well on defense, and had the one nice jumphook tonight, but his shot was off. He proved last year he could knock down the mid-range jumper against the best competition so I am not overly worried. Just would like to see the rebounding numbers go up.

Tyler played solid on both ends. Josh was pressing a bit tonight, and needs work on the defensive end, but that is a work in progress. All in all a great night for the team.

The great thing about this team is the many options K has. He can go big, small, or medium and basically play any style he wants to effectively. They are still a work in progress and have a long way to go, but tonight showed great promise on the defensive end. If they can play that type of high intensity defense against Top 10 teams, they will make life hard on any opponent. I look forward to next week's games when the competition stiffens to see how out guys handle the pressure.

[DevilHorns]

This early in the year to have so much natural team chemistry is very very good. No matter who is out there, the game just seems to flow. Ball movement was generally very good around the perimeter though I felt a few screen-and-rolls were missed; I remember a few cases in particular where Kyle missed a few opportunities to dish for easy buckets (I know, I'm looking for flaws in Picasso).

I still think we're trying to find our identity offensively. It's clear we want to run, though at times I think we're playing half way between a run-and-gun fast paced game and a half-court offense, and on a given opportunity to break, we're not sure what we want to do (again, I know, it's the second game of the year!).

It was also interesting to see Nolan take over some of the ball-handling duties; maybe it was a deliberate way to slow down the game and let Kyrie play off of Nolan's play-making ability (which is generally underrated). At that point we were clearly taking this game.

I'm very pleased with our defensive effort. Last game there were a few clear miscues that led to easy baskets in the first half. Against Miami the effort and consistency was incredibly encouraging. We were out-hustling them and contesting nearly every shot. Most importantly, our ability to switch looked much more fluid than the first game. And that was pretty much everybody. Our team defense has already stepped it up a level.

To have Andre and Seth off of the bench is just gravy. Those guys can light it up from the perimeter as well as anyone in the NCAA. This will come up huge in close games where we could test them both in a given game and let the hot-hand play more minutes. And Andre, I love the confidence off the dribble and the in your face defense. Very much improved!

Mason is showing flashes. I think half way through the ACC season he is going to have a level of consistency and presence that hopefully will mirror Z's emergence last year. Needs some FT practice, thats for sure. But overall play is very encouraging after a few miscues early in the game.

Kelly just looks so natural out there. He can play on the perimeter as a 4, stretching the D. He has the body and ability to move to defend the 3/4. He is an incredibly versatile weapon to have on our team. His ability to create on offense is underrated, and his hustle and defensive presence is overall consistent. From the get go I thought he was going to take the starting spot from Miles this year. Didn't realize this was already a possibility this early in the year. It will be interesting to see how Miles responds to the other bigs potentially taking more of the minutes.

What a game! :cool:

[Gthoma2a]

I am disappointed with the score, but I can't complain too much. I am hoping that this can be a substitute for a "helpful loss." This showed us that we aren't going to score enough to run teams out of the gym every night. We will get production, but it isn't enough that we can stop playing defense. That should be the lesson learned from tonight.

Ryan looked good. He is a new man with that size. He has confidence, and that is dangerous.

Tyler looked good, but he needs to be more attentive after he makes the defensive play. He got lost in traffic there, and he let the ball go right back to the other team.

I don't like Kyrie getting those quick fouls, but that is due to me wanting him to win Rookie of the Week every week.

Kyle and Nolan were solid, as they always are, but I want to see their numbers up.

Mason looked great. I don't care who the opposition was, he was digging.

Dre looked outstanding. I loved his diving after loose balls, his shot was on, he was looking to drive a little, and he showed the spirit that made us love him last year (I remember the dunk, where he drove the lane, in the ACC Championship game as one of the best moments prior to the National Title).

Hairston continues to prove himself to be trustworthy with minutes IMO.

Miles showed toughness with the dislocation, so I give him credit for that.

Can't find the words for Seth, he was outstanding. His shot had some Beckham on it. He played a great game.

Overall, we need to get that score higher, though. I love our defense, but we need to do both to be "scary," and that is what we need to live up to.

[yootheman]

funny moment from nolan. don't know if it was on tv. after the orthopod popped miles' finger back in, nolan got up from his seat, went down the bench, and congratulated him on a job well done. although, one could argue it wasn't that great a job since miles missed both FTs.

[BlueintheFace]

Here is an interesting point to watch:

When Duke plays pressure man-to-man defense, the effectiveness of that defense depends, in large part, on the ability of the big men to rotate and make a play when there is penetration. Typically this has meant that the big men would rotate and set up for the charge. However, the plumlees (especially mason) do not do this, they rotate over and sidle up along side the penetrating guard so as to go for the block. We saw this time and time again tonight and saw it against Princeton.

I am curious as to whether this is something K will seek to fix, or whether he is letting the Plumlees stop the penetration with their athleticism.

[uh_no]

Here is an interesting point to watch:

When Duke plays pressure man-to-man defense, the effectiveness of that defense depends, in large part, on the ability of the big men to rotate and make a play when there is penetration. Typically this has meant that the big men would rotate and set up for the charge. However, the plumlees (especially mason) do not do this, they rotate over and sidle up along side the penetrating guard so as to go for the block. We saw this time and time again tonight and saw it against Princeton.

I am curious as to whether this is something K will seek to fix, or whether he is letting the Plumlees stop the penetration with their athleticism.

its also not a charge since the rule change a couple years ago....

[roywhite]

Mason is one of the most interesting guys to watch; there's always something happening with him, it seems:

Good---grabbing rebounds, converting an alley oop, blocking shots, getting good position inside and scoring, making a nice pass

Bad---missing FT's, putting the ball in the floor inside and losing the handle or failing to convert, taking an extra step with his dribble, missing shots from inside 8 feet

Even when he's productive, you still get the feeling he's just scratching the surface of what he can do. He can continue to progress and be a really good player, but he also could be the kind of guy whose performance never quite catches up to his potential. If he does perform well with some consistency, it would be a big boost to the team.

[ajgoodfella7]

Mason is one of the most interesting guys to watch; there's always something happening with him, it seems:

Good---grabbing rebounds, converting an alley oop, blocking shots, getting good position inside and scoring, making a nice pass

Bad---missing FT's, putting the ball in the floor inside and losing the handle or failing to convert, taking an extra step with his dribble, missing shots from inside 8 feet

Even when he's productive, you still get the feeling he's just scratching the surface of what he can do. He can continue to progress and be a really good player, but he also could be the kind of guy whose performance never quite catches up to his potential. If he does perform well with some consistency, it would be a big boost to the team.

Thats the one thing that has bothered me about both Plumlees. They put the ball on the floor way too much when they should be going up to the basket. They really need to work on little jump hooks, so they don't have to dribble the ball under the basket every time to put themselves in scoring position.

[timmy c]

Great defensive effort! The RedHawks earned every basket tonight.

Dawkins has shown real maturity this season. He is instinctive, instead of over thinking everything. With more reps, I expect Mason will become more instinctive too.

Seems to me that Singler played an underwhelming game. His play tonight reminded me of his early season last year when he was trying to find his rhythm playing on the wing. I know they were winning handily, but the guards need to look to get the Player of the Year going.

[delfrio]

It's interesting how often we were intentionally going to Mason on plays. Was this because of the size of the competition or do you think K is working on trying to get Mason more into the game offensively (beyond this game)?

[Poincaré]

It's clear our guys have chemistry off the court... It seems like chemistry on the court is coming along, too, with Nolan and Kyrie leading the way. They've got a long way to go if they want to match last year's teamwork, but they seem to be on their way.

[Gthoma2a]

As for going directly at the basket, I don't know how effective that would be. They tried that against Princeton, and the result was always a walk, so maybe they need that dribble.

[chrisheery]

I want Miles to be awesome. I think he should be. He has all the physical tools a big man could ever want. His problem is positioning and preparation. He is rarely in proper position to box out and get a rebound. His rotations are slow and he doesn't maximize his size on the majority of possessions. I wish there was a way to simplify things for him and let him gain confidence in just those parts of the game. I feel like everything else would come along if he could rebound effectively. If he doesn't get rebounds, there is no benefit to playing him as a second big. That means his playing time would be limited to those times when Mason and Ryan are in foul trouble. I'd love to have a dynamic team with a power inside game, but that has to start with the basics.

[roywhite]

Official Boxscore (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205032271)

Kyrie was very productive in 19 minutes.

Seth and Andre are major weapons.

Miami didn't shoot well, but that seemed mostly due to good defense; they were not getting many good shots.

[BlueintheFace]

Well, if Mason dribbles the ball more than once, you are looking at a 95% chance of a bad shot or turnover and a 5% chance of a dunk. However, he is just growing in to this completely new system to him. My real concern about him is on the defensive end. Sometimes he tries to double guards or corral somebody else's player in the corner, which forces others to rotate and cover for him (usually resulting in a foul). K made a subtle reference to this after the Princeton game.

[ajgoodfella7]

As for going directly at the basket, I don't know how effective that would be. They tried that against Princeton, and the result was always a walk, so maybe they need that dribble.

I'm talking when they get the ball in the post, they need to develop some sort of a jump hook so they don't have to walk with the ball. They dribble the ball too many times into traffic and bring the ball down to their waists, and thats when the turnovers happen. I'm not saying they should just try to dunk every time they get the ball.

[BlueintheFace]

I'm talking when they get the ball in the post, they need to develop some sort of a jump hook so they don't have to walk with the ball. They dribble the ball too many times into traffic and bring the ball down to their wastes, and thats when the turnovers happen. I'm not saying they should just try to dunk every time they get the ball.

Miles is the only player on the team with any post game. This may change over the course of the season though. We will have to wait and see...

[JohnGalt]

This early in the year to have so much natural team chemistry is very very good. No matter who is out there, the game just seems to flow. Ball movement was generally very good around the perimeter though I felt a few screen-and-rolls were missed; I remember a few cases in particular where Kyle missed a few opportunities to dish for easy buckets (I know, I'm looking for flaws in Picasso).

I particularly agree with this comment. The intense focus on each and every kid's face on the floor was contagious...even for me at home! Each kid exudes a palpable desire to make the next guy look great on either end of the ball. How many times was Duke on the floor diving after a loose ball...and they were already up what? 20? 30? We the entitled (perhaps, slightly pretentious) Duke fans are truly fortunate to have ANOTHER crop of kids of this caliber representing Trinity. My spidey senses tell me it'll only get better too...


Kelly just looks so natural out there. He can play on the perimeter as a 4, stretching the D. He has the body and ability to move to defend the 3/4. He is an incredibly versatile weapon to have on our team. .


I disagree slightly here. Should he ever be placed in the position to guard an opposing team's 3 I think it'd be a challenge for him. Lateral quickness is not Kelly's thing, and although his ever expanding defensive prowess may earn him a few brownie points, I think he'd get exploited.

[ajgoodfella7]

Miles is the only player on the team with any post game. This may change over the course of the season though. We will have to wait and see...

I would agree and would also add Kyle to that as well. Eventually, if the Plumlees want to reach their full potential, they are going to have to work on this aspect of their game.

[Bluealum]

1.) It will not be any fun to be a guard trying to bring the ball up against us this year. This team is built to do what K wants to do, which is make passing a highly stressful event.

2.) Kyrie is the most polished looking freshmen I have seen at Duke in the last 20 years. It is hard to imagine, but when he is in the game for us, our team just changes character, and he is a 'freshman'! I tend to mute the hype on recruits a bit, but his speed with the ball, good decision making, and overall demeanor are remarkable for such a young man.

3.) Mason got a lot of defensive boards competing with no one. For those who did not watch, his rebounding numbers are quite misleading. However he looked more fluid and assertive in this game which is a real positive.

4.) Nolan has shown more passing skill in 2 games than he did in 3 years at Duke. He had a couple of dazzling passes and the delayed Mason screen followed by the blow by was a thing of beauty.

5.) Kyle is picking up fouls when the bigs miss rotations and he tries to bail them out. Even though Miles did not play much and did not play very well, I think he is the most accomplished interior defender and moves his feet better than Mason or Ryan. We missed his defensive presence for most of the night and it hurt Kyle directly.

6.) Ryan is smooth. He appears to be in the right place at the right time most of the time. He is going to be one of those fan favorite seniors at Duke, one that grows every year and shows us something new in his game over time.

7.) Andre - Wow. He looks bigger, faster, stronger, more assertive, and way more energetic. It's going to be hard to keep him out of the lineup for long stretches.

8.) Dell needs to have a shooting clinic because his kids have the smoothest stroke!

9.) It's going to be a lot of fun watching this team take on Mich St. and Kansas St!

[Newton_14]

I want Miles to be awesome. I think he should be. He has all the physical tools a big man could ever want. His problem is positioning and preparation. He is rarely in proper position to box out and get a rebound. His rotations are slow and he doesn't maximize his size on the majority of possessions. I wish there was a way to simplify things for him and let him gain confidence in just those parts of the game. I feel like everything else would come along if he could rebound effectively. If he doesn't get rebounds, there is no benefit to playing him as a second big. That means his playing time would be limited to those times when Mason and Ryan are in foul trouble. I'd love to have a dynamic team with a power inside game, but that has to start with the basics.

I am a Miles fan and agree with much of what you say here. He has it in him for sure. My only slight beef is I feel he does move well on defense. I thought he moved well on defense tonight. He is much better offensively than what he is currently showing, that is for sure. Kedsy mentioned several times last year that Miles seemed to play better if he got an early basket, especially an alleyoop dunk. It seemed to kick start him.

There is a lot of talent there. He can help this team that is for sure and like you say, rebounding is a great place to start. Ryan has him in the skill dept but Miles is far and away the better athlete and is quicker, stronger, and better leaper. I really hope he can get it going as it will make this team much stronger. He just needs consistency. What we really need is for him and Ryan to push each other all year to get better and better. Their skill set is different which will force teams to defend each differently. Same with Mason. All 3 have different games which is a positive imo.

We need those 3 to form a solid 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5.

Good news is it is very early in the year.

[nmduke2001]

Mason's rebounding #s are overrated today. Only 3 of his boards were offensive and well he was teh sole big guy on the floor, of course he was going to pick up defensive boards.

No offense, but I totally disagree. Big guys are supposed to grab defensive boards, that’s sort of the point. Big man grabbing defensive rebounds = good, regardless of who else is on the court.

[chrisheery]

Miles is the only player on the team with any post game. This may change over the course of the season though. We will have to wait and see...

Ryan Kelly makes far better moves in the post than Miles or anyone else. He just has a better sense of what is going on around him in the game. (In my opinion)

[JohnGalt]

Ryan Kelly makes far better moves in the post than Miles or anyone else. He just has a better sense of what is going on around him in the game. (In my opinion)

Agree 100%. Kelly's skill set is not only better, but more diverse and advanced than any of the other bigs on the team. His only problem is he's the least athletic (by whatever definition you choose) of them all, as well.

After watching two full games, I am positively stoked about his progress as a player. The weight he's gained has translated into a new ability to hold his ground in the post which has been essential to building the big C. Confidence, baby. Keep it up Ryan!

[Kedsy]

It was also interesting to see Nolan take over some of the ball-handling duties; maybe it was a deliberate way to slow down the game and let Kyrie play off of Nolan's play-making ability (which is generally underrated).

I'm pretty sure most of Nolan's time as PG was when Kyrie was on the bench with foul trouble. That said, Nolan was outstanding with 7 assists and only 1 TO.


But you have to remember, today we went small for most of the game with mason at the 5, Singler at the 4, and 3 guards.

By my count the "bigs" played 67 minutes (Mason 24; Ryan 16; Miles 14; Josh 11; Todd 2), which means Kyle played the "4" for 13 minutes. Which is not most of the game.


I am disappointed with the score, but I can't complain too much.

We were winning 73 to 29 before we let up and they outscored us 16 to 6 over the last few minutes. 73 to 29. And you're disappointed with the score?


I want Miles to be awesome. I think he should be. He has all the physical tools a big man could ever want. His problem is positioning and preparation. He is rarely in proper position to box out and get a rebound. His rotations are slow and he doesn't maximize his size on the majority of possessions. I wish there was a way to simplify things for him and let him gain confidence in just those parts of the game. I feel like everything else would come along if he could rebound effectively. If he doesn't get rebounds, there is no benefit to playing him as a second big. That means his playing time would be limited to those times when Mason and Ryan are in foul trouble. I'd love to have a dynamic team with a power inside game, but that has to start with the basics.

I agree with Boozer that Miles's defense has been pretty good so far. But you're right that he looks like he's lacking confidence. As Boozer noted, I observed last year that he (and Mason, too) played better if he got an alley-oop dunk in the early going. Again, I think it's a confidence issue. Hopefully he'll get his confidence back, because I think our D will be best when he's in there and playing well.

That said, I've liked Ryan's defense over the past two games as well. Mason's D has been pretty good, except he has occasional concentration lapses where he loses his man or gets beat, leading to easy layups for our opponent or, worse, a foul for Kyle trying to cover for Mason's mistake. Hopefully as the season moves on, we'll see fewer and fewer of those lapses.


Andre - Wow. He looks bigger, faster, stronger, more assertive, and way more energetic. It's going to be hard to keep him out of the lineup for long stretches.

I have been very impressed with Andre so far. He looks so confident and so competent out there. Completely different body language from last year. He can clearly be successful at the 3, which was the one position I was afraid we had depth issues. But we won't, thanks to the new Andre.

[loran16]

No offense, but I totally disagree. Big guys are supposed to grab defensive boards, that’s sort of the point. Big man grabbing defensive rebounds = good, regardless of who else is on the court.

Sigh. You miss the point. Defensive Rebounds are a big guys' default job. If only one big guy is on the floor, he should collect a lot of defensive rebounds. If two are on teh floor always, he'll collect less.

So yes, mason showed more rebounding this year, but a good part of that was increased opportunities.

Moreover, it's the offensive glass that is the special part of a rebounders ability, that makes a big guy truly elite. Not the defensive glass. And Mason didn't show that today. Thus the rebounds were basically the result of him doing his normal job and not him doing anything special or elite.

Yes he scored more today. But really, don't go considering the boards as a sign of his emergence...he's nowhere near that level yet.

[loran16]

By my count the "bigs" played 67 minutes (Mason 24; Ryan 16; Miles 14; Josh 11; Todd 2), which means Kyle played the "4" for 13 minutes. Which is not most of the game.
.

You're counting the last 10 minutes, when we were in cruise mode. When the lineups are tallied by PFR, you'll see what i'm talking about. We went small a lot today.

[Acymetric]

No offense, but I totally disagree. Big guys are supposed to grab defensive boards, that’s sort of the point. Big man grabbing defensive rebounds = good, regardless of who else is on the court.

The reason the numbers are misleading (I am basing this off of what I saw and K's comments after the game) is that Miami was basically having nobody go for offensive boards. Most of the time they would have the center stay back to go for the board if he was already in the paint, everyone else ran to stop the break. So most of Mason's defensive rebounds came with no opposition from Miami's players. He definitely played hard, but he only had to work for 2 or 3 of those boards, the other ones were basically handed to him by Miami's gameplan.

Not trying to take away from Mason, but in traffic I still think his rebounding leaves a lot to be desired, people shouldn't be expecting him to turn into a rebounding machine all of a sudden unless he improves that aspect.

[DevilHorns]

I'm pretty sure most of Nolan's time as PG was when Kyrie was on the bench with foul trouble. That said, Nolan was outstanding with 7 assists and only 1 TO.




I didn't have my usual seat on the couch today so I saw the game in spurts of minutes on mute (had some people over, am actually re-watching the whole thing now in complete fashion). I could've swore there was at least a few minute stretch with Nolan handling the ball pretty consistently down the floor with Kyrie playing beside him. Sounds like I'm wrong on this one; thanks for clearing it up.

Ah dinner guests!

*Days away from Gonzaga/K-state and MSU!

[nmduke2001]

Sigh. You miss the point. Defensive Rebounds are a big guys' default job. If only one big guy is on the floor, he should collect a lot of defensive rebounds. If two are on teh floor always, he'll collect less.

So yes, mason showed more rebounding this year, but a good part of that was increased opportunities.

Moreover, it's the offensive glass that is the special part of a rebounders ability, that makes a big guy truly elite. Not the defensive glass. And Mason didn't show that today. Thus the rebounds were basically the result of him doing his normal job and not him doing anything special or elite.

Yes he scored more today. But really, don't go considering the boards as a sign of his emergence...he's nowhere near that level yet.

The next leading rebounder in the game had 6 boards. Apparently, Mason was the only one doing his job tonight. Give the kid some credit. He had more than half of the boards of the entire opposing team. Offensive boards are going to be tough for our bigs all season. We shoot a lot of long jumpers. That creates long rebounds.

[cameroncrazy3104]

I dont know if anyone else saw this but the way it looked to me was that did a poor job on screens, we did not switch or hedge well. This is an easy thing to fix in practice but it definitely needs to be better before Mich St and Kansas St.

[dchen09]

Moreover, it's the offensive glass that is the special part of a rebounders ability, that makes a big guy truly elite. Not the defensive glass. And Mason didn't show that today. Thus the rebounds were basically the result of him doing his normal job and not him doing anything special or elite.


I agree for the most part except that elite rebounders aren't necessarily measured by their ability to board offensively. For example, if a system calls for a big to play at the high post on offense, it would be very hard for him to collect any offensive rebounds. What makes a rebounder good is instinct, positioning, and strength of will. If a bound is in his area, the ball is his. If a shot goes up, he knows where to go to grab the board. If there's an opposing big near him, he will box him out to at least give his teammates a better chance to grab the board. I think that is what makes a good rebounder.

[BlueintheFace]

Ryan has made 2 post moves in his career at Duke, so I am curious as to how people are so adamant about his ability in the post.

He is an excellent passer in the high-low game and demonstrates an incredible understanding of the game, but I have no clue where this post move stuff comes from...

[chrisheery]

He made a post move today that was smoothest post move I've seen from any Duke player (except maybe Kyle) in the last 4-5 years. Faked to his right shoulder, spun to his left and shot smoothly. He missed, but with more reps, he would make that shot consistently. On the other hand, we have seen others make "moves" that are never smooth and often end up in turnovers more than even shot attempts.

[Bluedog]

Miami coach Charlie Coles has some classic post-game comments:


I’ve never cheered for a three-point shot to go in like I did the last one. If you had seen me, you would have thought that was the game winner. But see, here’s what happens, when you’re getting beat pretty thoroughly, first thing is, you realize ‘Ok, they’re beating us.’ And then the second thought you have is, ‘Ok, they’re beating us pretty good.’ Then the third thought you have is, ‘Uh oh, are we going to set any records tonight?’ So when that three went in, I [celebrated with a fist pump] to the ref. I was so happy when he said “Yeah.” So wherever the guy is in Louisiana tomorrow that will look at USA Today, how many points did we end up with? 45, that’s better than 36. You see what I’m saying? Some things you never can return from. ESPN, and nowadays, they can really hit you. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And so I was so happy.

Some nice words for Coach K too:


Now there’s a lot of good coaches in this country, but Coach K is one of those guys that does anybody not believe him around here? You know I just wanted to start a bunch of rumors before the game. Think about this, and then again I’ll let you ask questions, I was telling a friend of mine this the other day. Everybody says Coach K did this, Coach K did that. Do you know why I respect him so much, and I think he’s such a great coach? I can’t remember a Duke player that was an underachiever. Has there ever been one? I’m not talking about a guy that’s playing bad, but I’m talking about the guy that gets up off the bench and looks around and he’s mad. I don’t ever remember a guy at Duke that didn’t at least pretend like he’s going out on that floor to overachieve. That’s why I respect Duke so much. They don’t have that. I’ve played great teams before, I’ve coached against great teams, and they give you a little break because they got that. He don’t have that. It seems like those kids just ‘Hey, let’s all agree on everything.’’


On his game plan to not challenge for offensive boards:
“Yeah, and if anybody second guesses that, I’ll stay here two days and argue with you.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205032419

[Kedsy]

You're counting the last 10 minutes, when we were in cruise mode. When the lineups are tallied by PFR, you'll see what i'm talking about. We went small a lot today.

I quickly went through the play by play and this is what I tallied:

First half
--------
2 bigs: 12:31 (62.58%)
1 big + Kyle: 7:29 (37.42%)

Second half, first 11 minutes
---------------------------
2 bigs: 7:26 (67.68%)
1 big + Kyle: 3:33 (32.32%)

Second half, last 9 minutes
--------------------------
2 bigs: 6:38 (73.57%)
1 big + Kyle: 2:23 (26.43%)

TOTALS
-------
2 bigs: 26:35 (66.46%)
1 big + Kyle: 13:25 (33.54%)


So, no matter how you slice it, we didn't go small most of the game. At no point during the game did it even get as high as 40%.

[dukeballer2294]

can some1 clarify the starters for tonight? ive been to a couple websites and ive heard different things

[Bluedog]

can some1 clarify the starters for tonight? ive been to a couple websites and ive heard different things

Kyrie
Nolan
Kyle
Mason
Ryan

In the postgame comments, Coach K said he's tinkering a bit to see what works and it's not a demotion for Miles or a promotion for Ryan. He said that he's set on Kyrie, Nolan, and Kyle starting on the perimeter though. He's not considering starting Curry or Dawkins and having Kyle start at the 4 at this point in time. The other two spots will be a bit of a rotation to see how the guys work with each other and see how they communicate, matchup, etc. He said Ryan played basically the same number of minutes this game as he did against Princeton.

[Devil07]

I loved this quote from Coach Coles as well:

As I’ve told my team, I’ve never taken a team and coached against a coach who had such a good team and the team totally buys into his philosophy. Now there’s a lot of good coaches in this country, but Coach K is one of those guys that does anybody not believe him around here? You know I just wanted to start a bunch of rumors before the game. Think about this, and then again I’ll let you ask questions, I was telling a friend of mine this the other day. Everybody says Coach K did this, Coach K did that. Do you know why I respect him so much, and I think he’s such a great coach? I can’t remember a Duke player that was an underachiever. Has there ever been one? I’m not talking about a guy that’s playing bad, but I’m talking about the guy that gets up off the bench and looks around and he’s mad. I don’t ever remember a guy at Duke that didn’t at least pretend like he’s going out on that floor to overachieve. That’s why I respect Duke so much. They don’t have that. I’ve played great teams before, I’ve coached against great teams, and they give you a little break because they got that. He don’t have that. It seems like those kids just ‘Hey, let’s all agree on everything.

I don't think I could have said it better myself.

[hedevil]

I'm only basing this on how it felt watching the first two games, but it seems to me that we played better when we had a smaller team in there. Obviously there will be teams where we are forced to go big, but judging solely by the eye test, things really looked better/smoother with the smaller lineup.

Rather than debating how many minutes we went big vs going small, is there any way to see what the offensive/defensive numbers were based on the various lineups? Were the smaller lineups more produtive though given less minutes on the court? Isn't effectiveness more important than number of minutes played based on size?

[superdave]

Here is an interesting point to watch:

When Duke plays pressure man-to-man defense, the effectiveness of that defense depends, in large part, on the ability of the big men to rotate and make a play when there is penetration. Typically this has meant that the big men would rotate and set up for the charge. However, the plumlees (especially mason) do not do this, they rotate over and sidle up along side the penetrating guard so as to go for the block. We saw this time and time again tonight and saw it against Princeton.

I am curious as to whether this is something K will seek to fix, or whether he is letting the Plumlees stop the penetration with their athleticism.

I have been noticing this as well. I think it's a problem because it relies on the individual play rather than team defense. It will also get them some cheap fouls.

[jipops]

The reason the numbers are misleading (I am basing this off of what I saw and K's comments after the game) is that Miami was basically having nobody go for offensive boards. Most of the time they would have the center stay back to go for the board if he was already in the paint, everyone else ran to stop the break. So most of Mason's defensive rebounds came with no opposition from Miami's players. He definitely played hard, but he only had to work for 2 or 3 of those boards, the other ones were basically handed to him by Miami's gameplan.

Not trying to take away from Mason, but in traffic I still think his rebounding leaves a lot to be desired, people shouldn't be expecting him to turn into a rebounding machine all of a sudden unless he improves that aspect.

I thank you for pointing this out. I too think Mason's rebounding numbers may be misleading. An extreme minority of those boards would be considered traffic boards and almost all were retrieved either alone under the basket or just beyond Kyle's reach. Miami had a clear game plan to get back and not hit the offensive boards. Even still, Mason started to look a little more comfortable out there. He simply made plays.

[Kedsy]

Rather than debating how many minutes we went big vs going small, is there any way to see what the offensive/defensive numbers were based on the various lineups? Were the smaller lineups more produtive though given less minutes on the court? Isn't effectiveness more important than number of minutes played based on size?

In the Princeton game, the big lineup was more effective. The small lineup beat Princeton by 9 in 16 minutes while the big lineup beat them by 28 in 24 minutes. Today my unofficial count had the small lineup as more effective, outscoring Miami (OH) by 27 in 13 minutes while the big lineup only outscored them by 7 in 27 minutes. The big lineup's numbers are skewed somewhat, however, by the last 6:38 when we were coasting and were outscored by 8. Even without that, however, the small lineup was significantly more effective tonight. So at this point, each style of lineup has been the better choice in one game and the less-better choice in one game.

I'd feel more comfortable relying on pfrduke's numbers than mine, however.

[hedevil]

Kedsy - thanks for the numbers. Those are the numbers I'm more concerned with going forward. I think effectiveness should be the deciding factor in lineups, and likely will be. It'll be interesting to see how the big vs small "production" plays out going forward.

[Greg_Newton]

Charlie Coles might be the funniest coach in the country. This is a few posts below, but it's one of the all-time great opposing-coach-Duke-quotes and has got to go in the front page quote generator:


Do you know why I respect him so much, and I think he’s such a great coach? I can’t remember a Duke player that was an underachiever. Has there ever been one? I’m not talking about a guy that’s playing bad, but I’m talking about the guy that gets up off the bench and looks around and he’s mad. I don’t ever remember a guy at Duke that didn’t at least pretend like he’s going out on that floor to overachieve. That’s why I respect Duke so much. They don’t have that. I’ve played great teams before, I’ve coached against great teams, and they give you a little break because they got that. He don’t have that. It seems like those kids just ‘Hey, let’s all agree on everything.

Anyway, I absolutely love the new Andre. When Iceman and Maverick come of the bench and start lighting it up, it sometimes makes me laugh my giddy, 1998-style, "this just isn't fair" laugh. He looks more confident, more comfortable with the flow of the game, quicker, stronger, and a better ballhandler. He seems to make decisions and move so much quicker and more naturally than last year, and it's allowing him to use his athletic gifts a little more.

After the first minute or so, I thought Mason maybe had his best game in a Duke uniform. Stats aside, I kept noticing a bunch of little things he was doing right, which is generally the opposite of how that usually goes - I think he'll get some love in the film room.

But Elmore (shockingly) made a really good point when he said Mason needed to develop a quick bank shot finish, and the same applies to Miles. I would make them watching film of Antwon Jamison, and how he would start his jump-flip motion as soon as he received the ball and before he even turned around when he received a close-in pass where a) he wasn't facing the rim and b) a defender was nearby, but not completely bodied up on him. If they can accept that it's okay to get a shot off before the defender jumps (rather than just over the defender's peak jump), and that it's okay to lightly release the ball off the glass before the peak of their own jump, I swear they'd double their points and cut their turnovers in half. Not to mention, it would probably help them get more dunks, because it forces the defender to commit to jumping earlier and makes him more vulnerable to pump fakes.

There seems to be a pattern developing of us turning a healthy lead into an annihilation with a mid-second-half lead - our depth means opponents can't let the intensity level waver at all, even when they get tired. It will be very interesting to see if this pattern continues against good but not great BCS teams like Marquette.

[lotusland]

In the Princeton game, the big lineup was more effective. The small lineup beat Princeton by 9 in 16 minutes while the big lineup beat them by 28 in 24 minutes. Today my unofficial count had the small lineup as more effective, outscoring Miami (OH) by 27 in 13 minutes while the big lineup only outscored them by 7 in 27 minutes. The big lineup's numbers are skewed somewhat, however, by the last 6:38 when we were coasting and were outscored by 8. Even without that, however, the small lineup was significantly more effective tonight. So at this point, each style of lineup has been the better choice in one game and the less-better choice in one game.

I'd feel more comfortable relying on pfrduke's numbers than mine, however.

Just Curios - are we big or small when Kyle is on the bench and we're playing 3 guards?

[Oriole Way]

I find it very interesting that Coach Charlie Coles focused so much on the Plumlees in his presser. Not only in the presser itself, but the fact he game-planned so much around them. He essentially thought Miles and Mason were both too big and too athletic to even bother sending more than one offensive rebounder to the glass. I wonder what he thought when he saw Ryan Kelly in the starting lineup, though!

Given how well-respected and experienced Coach Coles is, it makes me even more encouraged about the two brothers' potential for this team. It was good to see Mason rebound with authority tonight.

My only minor nitpick with Mason's play tonight is that I would like to see him make quicker and better decisions when he is handling the ball on the perimeter. He hesitated a few times when deciding between taking a dribble, making a pass, or putting up a shot. Once or twice it resulted in a turnover, and another time - despite being wide open - he put up an ill-advised long-range jumper. I would like to see the coaching staff try to position Mason more in the post so that he will receive entry passes closer to the basket, and in general, I don't like seeing Mason getting the ball on the wing. I don't think it's a great idea to have our worst ball-handler and decision-maker getting the ball in a spot on the floor where he is very unlikely to do anything positive, or much that can take advantage of his skill set, especially early in the game when our offense needs to establish itself. Just a minor criticism, though.

If Miles and Mason can make progress similar to Thomas and Zoubek last season, this will certainly be the special season we are all hoping for.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Anyway, I absolutely love the new Andre. When Iceman and Maverick come of the bench and start lighting it up, it sometimes makes me laugh my giddy, 1998-style, "this just isn't fair" laugh.

Greg - if you came up with those nicknames, you are a genius! That is the most fitting set of nicknames for the two of them. I'm guessing that Andre is Iceman and Seth is Maverick?

And I agree - I absolutely love the new Andre. Clearing, working out with Nolan over the summer has paid enormous dividends. He looks sharp, alert, and patient. A year ago, I predicted that Andre would be the next great Duke player. While he was off to a slow start, I can definitely see him being an absolute beast during his next two years.

Lastly, and I should always end my posts with this - Nolan must be the most important player to the Duke program this year. Not because of his play on the court, but just because of his ability to a) create cohesion amongst the youngsters b) recruit (let's face it, without Nolan, Quinn Cook wouldn't have been as interested in Duke to begin with), and c) give Duke a fun-loving persona.

I love Nolan. Don't think I've had a man-crush like this since JJ in Dec 05!

[gw67]

My cable company finally got ESPNU so I was able to watch this year’s edition of the Devils for the first time last night. My game observations are below:

• I like the combination of height and quickness on this year’s team. It gives Coach K a lot of flexibility and I suspect that we may see a number of starting lineups depending on the opposition.
• Although they did not shoot well last night, this team is potentially an offensive juggernaut. They start four players who can hit the three and bring in two off the bench who are even better shooters. This is in addition to wonderful play in transition, the all around capabilities of Singler and Smith, the inside play of the Plumlee’s and the driving ability of Irving.
• The deny defense looked excellent as usual (although Miami is not a good team). Questions still to be answered are: Can they stop good big men? Can they defense a team that relies on one-on-one play? Can they rebound against good teams?
• Thoughts on some individual play:
- Singler and Smith are both improved and continue to be the stars of the team
- Mason Plumlee is much more aggressive and may be a key for this team against bigger and better teams
- IMO, Irving appears to be a combination of Hurley (ballhandling, passing, defense and free throw shooting) and JWill (driving to the hoop and shooting). With all the hype, I expected a shorter John Wall. He is a very good player who should improve by leaps and bounds but he is not in that league (just my opinion). I expect him to lead the ACC in assists.
- Curry and Dawkins are gunners, plain and simple. The beauty is that they take good shots and are excellent marksmen.
- The two local youngsters, Thornton and Hariston, will get plenty of minutes but they are likely relegated to the 9th and 10th positions on the bench.

My overall assessment is that this year’s team will be like the Brand, Langdon, Avery, Battier, Maggette team. If the opposition doesn’t bring their “A” game, they will be run off the court. I expect some games to be essentially over by halftime.

It should be a fun winter watching the Devils, Terps and Caps.

gw67

[Gthoma2a]

What I mean by disappointed with the score is that we didn't score more. We were cold tonight, and it kept the team from reaching the level that this team should get. This team should be near a hundred most nights. It was an off night. That was what I was commenting on.

[DevilGrad]

Miami coach Charlie Coles has some classic post-game comments:



Some nice words for Coach K too:





http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205032419

My compliments to whomever in the SID's office it was who had to punctuate that. I wish Miami had showed better last night, but Charlie will get some good teaching material out of it, and I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised at Miami's positioning when you look at the MAC standings in February.

I'm also happy all of you got a little bit of exposure to Coach Coles. I'm totally biased, but he's one of my favorite characters in all of college basketball.

[Kedsy]

What I mean by disappointed with the score is that we didn't score more. We were cold tonight, and it kept the team from reaching the level that this team should get. This team should be near a hundred most nights. It was an off night. That was what I was commenting on.

OK, but I disagree. Miami is a slowdown team and to their credit they didn't let us speed them up too much. Kyle had an off-shooting night, but the rest of the team shot 50% from 3-pointland. That's not "cold."

Our raw offensive efficiency for the Princeton game was 126.0. Against Miami it was 119.7. That's a difference, certainly, but I don't think it's enough of a difference to express genuine disappointment. Just my opinion, of course.

[dukeballboy88]

If we can develope a serious post presence it will only open up the perimeter. Just think if Miles, Mason, Ryan or Josh could catch it on the block, take a couple of dribbles and make a move and score 15 to 20 a game??? Whoever catches it on the block would be 1 on 1 cause who will they leave open to double? Im tellin you, if we can get this kind of presence on the block it will only open up shots for the snipers on the perimeter.

Hey Kedsy, watch Ohio St. and you will see what I mean by pounding it twice.

They dump it down to Sullinger or whatever the freshmans name is, and they put four shooters on the perimeter. Sullinger then pounds it twice making contact with the defender and by that team he can see if the double is coming, if not he makes his move and knocks down a jump hook. If they double, last night he kept finding open guys for 3. Watch what I tell you , Ohio St. will be our biggest obstacle in repeating because of the post presence!

All in all, I love this teams energy. Im so hype during the jump ball I about have to go outside! lol

[COYS]

What I mean by disappointed with the score is that we didn't score more. We were cold tonight, and it kept the team from reaching the level that this team should get. This team should be near a hundred most nights. It was an off night. That was what I was commenting on.

Our pace adjusted scoring was actually pretty good. According to scacchoops (http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_Game_Box_Score_External.asp?hGame=1959), Duke scored 1.2 points per possession in 65 possessions. That is very solid work, although perhaps not spectacular. Miami opted to run 4-5 players back on defense after every shot attempt so they limited our chances at fast breaks. Despite that tactic, we still managed a fair share of fast break points (I think we ended up with around 18 if you're counting the times Irving was fouled on the break). Most our damage was done in the half court this time and while 43% from the field overall and 40% from three is far from world beating, I don't think it really qualifies as a cold shooting night. Perhaps mediocre is a better term. Considering that the engine that runs our new offense (Kyrie) only played 8 minutes in the first half and that Miami successfully slowed down the pace by opting to forfeit all offensive rebounds, Duke's offense operated pretty well. If we can get Mason and Miles to finish a few more shots inside of 10 feet, Kyle shoots closer to what I suspect will be his normal percentage (45%), and Mason and Miles are able to hit a more reasonable percentage of their free throws, this game becomes even more lopsided than it already was. If we only net 1.2 points per possession in games when the offense is running at 75%, we will be in great shape.

If anything, I'm super excited by how the defense is playing, thus far. There are definitely some things to work on, and we'll see how it goes as the competition stiffens, but if not for some crazy shots in the last minute, Miami would have had an offensive rating at right around or even below .5 points per possession. I don't believe that last year's team EVER kept a team down that successfully. As it stands, the .67 rating that they left Cameron with is still something the defense can hang its hat on.

[Kedsy]

If we can develope a serious post presence it will only open up the perimeter. Just think if Miles, Mason, Ryan or Josh could catch it on the block, take a couple of dribbles and make a move and score 15 to 20 a game??? Whoever catches it on the block would be 1 on 1 cause who will they leave open to double? Im tellin you, if we can get this kind of presence on the block it will only open up shots for the snipers on the perimeter.

Hey Kedsy, watch Ohio St. and you will see what I mean by pounding it twice.

They dump it down to Sullinger or whatever the freshmans name is, and they put four shooters on the perimeter. Sullinger then pounds it twice making contact with the defender and by that team he can see if the double is coming, if not he makes his move and knocks down a jump hook. If they double, last night he kept finding open guys for 3. Watch what I tell you , Ohio St. will be our biggest obstacle in repeating because of the post presence!

I hear you, but I still don't think our best offense involves Miles or Mason putting the ball on the floor, even in the context you describe. I'd rather they develop an inside game like Antawn Jamison did at UNC -- he would have the ball in his hands for 20 seconds a game and score 18 points. It was all good positioning then catch and shoot; he almost never put the ball on the floor.

Against Miami, Miles had one move like you describe, although he only pounded it once before his jump hook, and he made it. Mason tried a similar move early on and he walked. I'd much prefer they use their athletic gifts to receive alley-oops like the one Mason got from Seth. For this team (IMO) it's a better way to get to the basket.

[sdotbarbee]

Our pace adjusted scoring was actually pretty good. According to scacchoops (http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_Game_Box_Score_External.asp?hGame=1959), Duke scored 1.2 points per possession in 65 possessions. That is very solid work, although perhaps not spectacular. Miami opted to run 4-5 players back on defense after every shot attempt so they limited our chances at fast breaks. Despite that tactic, we still managed a fair share of fast break points (I think we ended up with around 18 if you're counting the times Irving was fouled on the break). Most our damage was done in the half court this time and while 43% from the field overall and 40% from three is far from world beating, I don't think it really qualifies as a cold shooting night. Perhaps mediocre is a better term. Considering that the engine that runs our new offense (Kyrie) only played 8 minutes in the first half and that Miami successfully slowed down the pace by opting to forfeit all offensive rebounds, Duke's offense operated pretty well. If we can get Mason and Miles to finish a few more shots inside of 10 feet, Kyle shoots closer to what I suspect will be his normal percentage (45%), and Mason and Miles are able to hit a more reasonable percentage of their free throws, this game becomes even more lopsided than it already was. If we only net 1.2 points per possession in games when the offense is running at 75%, we will be in great shape.

If anything, I'm super excited by how the defense is playing, thus far. There are definitely some things to work on, and we'll see how it goes as the competition stiffens, but if not for some crazy shots in the last minute, Miami would have had an offensive rating at right around or even below .5 points per possession. I don't believe that last year's team EVER kept a team down that successfully. As it stands, the .67 rating that they left Cameron with is still something the defense can hang its hat on.

Great point, I was going to say the same thing. MofOH decided it would be better to limit fast break points, or easy baskets by not crashing the offensive glass. This tactic might have worked better if our defense hadn't played so well, and made them take very difficult shots. Our defense is what stuck out to me in the game, our guards played very good defense the entire night. I do wish Miles and Mason would move their feet a little better so other players, Singler in particular, don't have to pick up cheap fouls. I just feel both Plumlee's have the athletic ability to stay with the man they are guarding.

[MChambers]

As my teenage son pointed out, Mason played 24 minutes without committing a foul. That has to be a career high.

[slower]

The next leading rebounder in the game had 6 boards. Apparently, Mason was the only one doing his job tonight.

He was doing his job by standing upright. Most of those boards were uncontested.

He DID look better as the game wore on, so that's a good sign. But he has to STOP jacking up threes and missing defensive assignments. Look, I'm sure he'll be fine when it counts. It took Zoubs a while to find his groove, so I know that patience is required here.

I WANT to love Mason, I want him to be the destructive force that he can be. And it will probably happen. I'm just not good at waiting. :)

[slower]

MofOH .

Can we just call them MOFO? :D

[Billy Dat]

In terms of the rotation, I think we'll see more of the Team USA experience influence K's approach in the early part of the season. His comments to date (e.g. 'We’ll try some different things to see where our chemistry might be with different units. It’s not like a demotion or a promotion.') echo the things his was saying during the Team USA camp and exhibition games this summer. That further demonstrates what I think we all believe, that this team goes a legit 10 deep, with very little drop-off among most combinations of the top 8 (assuming Kyle or Nolan are on the floor to lend that senior leader All American key cog of a National Champion vibe). One of the keys for Team USA was K's ability to surround Durant with whichever pieces were running hottest and showing the greatest chemistry. Substitute Nolan and Kyle for Durant, and I see the same thing happening this year - which is really exciting.

I agree that it was great to see Mason play such a big role last night. I really think the Plumli, Kelly, Hairston frontline, with Kyle swinging down as play dictates, will be more than adequate with the perimeter we trot out. It'll be great to see how the big guys do against, MSU, Butler (Matt Howard is a handful, lest anyone forgot) and, hopefully, K-State.

[MChambers]

Charlie Coles might be the funniest coach in the country.
Even better than his official quotes at www.goduke.com was his response to the reporter who asked him why his team was fumbling the ball:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/11/16/807626/defense-keys-dukes-79-45-win-over.html

[superdave]

Charlie Coles might be the funniest coach in the country.

All I could think about when they showed Charlie Coles last night was the he was some combination of Fred G. Sanford and Jackie Gleason, and that Robert Duvall should play him in the movie. What a character.

[superdave]

From the 15:00 mark in the 2nd half down to about the 12:00 mark I thought Kyrie absolutely took over the game. He had a look on his face like he wanted to destroy his opponent. He seemed mad about letting his team down in the 1st by getting into foul trouble. The play by play shows he scored 7 points in a quick flurry, but he was all over the place - rebounding, assisting, getting steals. The other 9 players appeared to be playing at a lower level. I cannot wait to see him exert his will on a game vs. a big time opponent. As he grows into this role, it's going to be amazing to watch and these 3-4 minutes stretches will grow into entire halves!

[InSpades]

He was doing his job by standing upright. Most of those boards were uncontested.

He DID look better as the game wore on, so that's a good sign. But he has to STOP jacking up threes and missing defensive assignments. Look, I'm sure he'll be fine when it counts. It took Zoubs a while to find his groove, so I know that patience is required here.

I WANT to love Mason, I want him to be the destructive force that he can be. And it will probably happen. I'm just not good at waiting. :)

I want to pull my hair out when I see Mason shoot a 3-point shot early in the shot clock. There's no way that an open 3 for Mason is the best we can do on a possession. We have to be a more efficient offensive team than we were last night (not that we were bad, but considering the level of competition I think we could do a lot better).

Defensively we played great for like 30+ minutes... the last few minutes were kind of a disaster but I guess you can't fault them too much for having a letdown when they were up so many.

[davidrosenhp]

[QUOTE=lotusland;447424]Good to see Mason get a double double. Hopefully this will be a confidence builder for him. I don't know if I have ever seen so many uncontested rebounds though.


In another thread, Miami's coach said their game plan was not to go for offensive rebounds since they wouldn't get them anyway, and he would "argue for two days" with anyone who questioned this. Better to get back on D. Coach K agreed

[Kedsy]

The play by play shows he scored 7 points in a quick flurry, but he was all over the place - rebounding, assisting, getting steals.

Thanks for bringing up Kyrie's rebounding. I was sooooo impressed by how quickly he got from one side of the court to the other to snag a rebound that when he started moving appeared to be just a step away from a Miami player. Not only quick but strong -- he ripped the ball out of their hands a couple of times. K said in the pre-season that we were focusing on perimeter rebounding and clearly Kyrie has taken it to heart.

[MChambers]

I want to pull my hair out when I see Mason shoot a 3-point shot early in the shot clock. There's no way that an open 3 for Mason is the best we can do on a possession. We have to be a more efficient offensive team than we were last night (not that we were bad, but considering the level of competition I think we could do a lot better).
Every time Mason takes a jumper, I have to remind myself that the coaching staff must be encouraging him to take them. They must think that he'll improve. Perhaps he makes those in practice and just needs to get more confident in his shooting during games?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Every time Mason takes a jumper, I have to remind myself that the coaching staff must be encouraging him to take them. They must think that he'll improve. Perhaps he makes those in practice and just needs to get more confident in his shooting during games?

I love the steps that Mason takes when shooting a 3-pointer:

1) Catches the ball
2) Realizes that no one is around him
3) Step-fakes twice with no one around him
4) Launches the 3

It always makes me laugh. Happens every time.

[Acymetric]

I want to pull my hair out when I see Mason shoot a 3-point shot early in the shot clock. There's no way that an open 3 for Mason is the best we can do on a possession. We have to be a more efficient offensive team than we were last night (not that we were bad, but considering the level of competition I think we could do a lot better).

Defensively we played great for like 30+ minutes... the last few minutes were kind of a disaster but I guess you can't fault them too much for having a letdown when they were up so many.

Maybe not, but its sort of like setting up a play in football. He made a few of those last year, and if he starts making them again the defense will have to come out and guard him, opening up the lane for the other big and the guards, as well as making it a little easier to shake his defender when he breaks inside.

[Kedsy]

Maybe not, but its sort of like setting up a play in football. He made a few of those last year, and if he starts making them again the defense will have to come out and guard him, opening up the lane for the other big and the guards, as well as making it a little easier to shake his defender when he breaks inside.

With everything our opponents have to guard, they will never come out and guard Mason's three-point shot. It has a much lower chance of going in than almost any other play we could think to run.

[superdave]

With everything our opponents have to guard, they will never come out and guard Mason's three-point shot. It has a much lower chance of going in than almost any other play we could think to run.

I'm ok with him taking them - he'll look a lot better as the season progresses. Laettner went from 1 to 12 to 53 to 97 attempts over his career, so I do think there's a place for this in the offense, but more than likely as a secondary option when the defense just gives it to him.

[COYS]

With everything our opponents have to guard, they will never come out and guard Mason's three-point shot. It has a much lower chance of going in than almost any other play we could think to run.

Agreed, but I'm ok with him taking a few early in the year to see if he can get his shot together. He's just gotta take them with confidence, which he's definitely not doing.

In my opinion, which may or may not be valid, the difference between Mason catching the ball out near the three point line vs. receiving it around the elbow or free throw line is immense. He is far more dangerous at the elbow than at the three point line as he's a legitimate triple threat from the charity stripe but a turnover waiting to happen at the three point line. He got a bad rap for the two turnovers he had in the first two possessions of the game against Miami, but I actually thought both of those turnovers came with him doing the right thing. The baseline was wideopen on his drive to the hoop where he traveled first. He just needed to square his feet before he took off to avoid the travel. Also, his attempt at a drive and kick on the next possession was spot on, as well, he just needed to be stronger with the ball. Hopefully with a few more reps he can smooth over some of these fundamental issues and his natural ability will be able to shine through.

[TaiAdmiral]

Hi guys. Here are some video highlights and stuff from last night's game:

http://www.crazie-talk.com/2010/11/17/section-17-duke-a-lot-miami-a-little/

[noyac]

I don't know why but I get very frustrated seeing us take bad shots in transition. I love our uptempo style but if nothing is there we need to slow it down and not a take a jumper without a man underneath.

I know that this will not be a problem with some of the worse teams but when we play the ACC schedule or the NCAAT those posessions are valuable and shooting a 3 with no one underneath will cost us.

Perhaps I am stuck in last year's frame of mind but I don't like seeing quick deep shots go up with little to no chance of an offensive rebound.

Don't get me wrong I thuroughly believe that Coach K will address this and have it corrected by NCCAT time but it still frustrates me now.

[MChambers]

I don't know why but I get very frustrated seeing us take bad shots in transition. I love our uptempo style but if nothing is there we need to slow it down and not a take a jumper without a man underneath.

I know that this will not be a problem with some of the worse teams but when we play the ACC schedule or the NCAAT those posessions are valuable and shooting a 3 with no one underneath will cost us.

Perhaps I am stuck in last year's frame of mind but I don't like seeing quick deep shots go up with little to no chance of an offensive rebound.

Don't get me wrong I thuroughly believe that Coach K will address this and have it corrected by NCCAT time but it still frustrates me now.
It did seem that we had a lot of the same problems against Miami that we had in the first half against Princeton. If the first shot wasn't there on transition, we didn't do a good job of working for a better shot.

I also have to point out that when you say this won't be a problem against the weaker teams on our schedule but will be in ACC play that Wake and GT are just awful this year.

[sdotbarbee]

Agreed, but I'm ok with him taking a few early in the year to see if he can get his shot together. He's just gotta take them with confidence, which he's definitely not doing.

In my opinion, which may or may not be valid, the difference between Mason catching the ball out near the three point line vs. receiving it around the elbow or free throw line is immense. He is far more dangerous at the elbow than at the three point line as he's a legitimate triple threat from the charity stripe but a turnover waiting to happen at the three point line. He got a bad rap for the two turnovers he had in the first two possessions of the game against Miami, but I actually thought both of those turnovers came with him doing the right thing. The baseline was wideopen on his drive to the hoop where he traveled first. He just needed to square his feet before he took off to avoid the travel. Also, his attempt at a drive and kick on the next possession was spot on, as well, he just needed to be stronger with the ball. Hopefully with a few more reps he can smooth over some of these fundamental issues and his natural ability will be able to shine through.

I know I said this in a thread over the summer but the Plumlee's have to buy into their role and I don't think it is shooting 3's. I feel that was a horrible decision by Mase to shoot a 3 since he obviously is our best rebounder so if he misses he is not in position to rebound. MP1 and MP2 need to play really good defense, rebound aggressively, work on free throws, and take the ball straight at the rim. They are best when we run a set play and they roll to the basket and a guard delivers them with the ball at the rim. I don't think either one of them are very good trying to get their own shot, but if someone "sets the table" for them they sure can finish. It sure is fun when we can pick out small things to critique in a 34 point victory though.:D

[tele]

Mason had a very good game. Nice to see him grabbing all those rebounds and even taking them away from people. A lot of good things will happen when you can catch the ball. If Mason continues to rebound with the same emphatic attitude (emphatitude?) that he dunks the ball, he will add to his game and the team immensely. One of Kelly's advantages is how well he catches the ball, and seems to make good decisions and passes afterward. Nice skills for a big, if you can hit an outside shot too, that is just extra plus.

I was wondering if anyone had heard Coach K talk about Coaching Lamar Odom on the World Championship team, and what his game added to that team. Be good to see some of the Duke bigs operate around the rim the way Odom did on that team. Odom missed a few threes too.

[magjayran]

I like Mason a lot and love it when he does good but I'd really like to see him work on getting his free throws down before he steps back and starts trying threes. I've watched him in warm-ups, in summer league, and in games and it's just not working for him. He's got a lot of talent but he can't shoot. He just can't. I know he hit one last year and I think I saw him hit one in Summer League but it's an incredibly low percentage. I think his future will be brighter if he works on a few post moves and hooks to go with 500-1000 free throws a day.

Still a good game for him and it's nice to see him improving.

[Rudy]

I started to say surprises but I can't say I was surprised by these great developments (I missed the Princeton game):

1. Nolan has gone from very good at the end of last year to great. It seemed like he wanted the other guards to get more experience so he didn't try to take over the game except for short bursts. But he has more confidence in his shooting and ball handling than he had last year. He was the best ball handler on the floor, for either team. And his defense is great. I was wowed by his block of the Miami player's shot when he managed a half step on Nolan.

2. Irving is as good as advertised.

3. Curry is as good as advertised, maybe better.

4. Dawkins continues to develop. Confidence in his shot is back.

5. Kelly's physical development is encouraging. (And growing his hair out makes him look less goofy.)

6. Defensive effort was terrific, especially for early in the year. Of course, all the guys except Kyle and Nolan know that they are competing for the eyes of the coaches and for minutes in the as-yet-to-be-settled rotation.

I keep hoping the Plumlees' non-dunk shooting will improve. Not there yet. This broadcast was one of the few in which I was agreeing with Elmore a lot, with his discussion of post play. He still thinks Duke gets all the calls and protests whenever Duke gets anything but an obvious call. Patrick caught the disease, too. They were both right about the non-call charges/blockings, though. You can't have a collision in the paint with both players going down, the ball flying out of bounds and not have a foul.

[Channing]

watching Miles play, I see so much talent. He'll have flashes where he looks like a legit star big man. For example, his little fade away hook that went down was a think of beauty. For those who saw the "all access" piece on Duke, it looked like he took the shot based on instincts.

I hope he and Mason rely a little more on their instincts and develop some really nice post moves.

[NSDukeFan]

...
It was also interesting to see Nolan take over some of the ball-handling duties; maybe it was a deliberate way to slow down the game and let Kyrie play off of Nolan's play-making ability (which is generally underrated). At that point we were clearly taking this game.

I'm very pleased with our defensive effort. Last game there were a few clear miscues that led to easy baskets in the first half. Against Miami the effort and consistency was incredibly encouraging. We were out-hustling them and contesting nearly every shot. Most importantly, our ability to switch looked much more fluid than the first game. And that was pretty much everybody. Our team defense has already stepped it up a level.
...
I think Nolan's play-making ability is underrated, because as consistent of a scorer as he was last year, I don't think he showed as consistent an ability to set up his teammates like he has early this year. Another big developmental step for Nolan, perhaps?

Mason is one of the most interesting guys to watch; there's always something happening with him, it seems:

Good---grabbing rebounds, converting an alley oop, blocking shots, getting good position inside and scoring, making a nice pass

Bad---missing FT's, putting the ball in the floor inside and losing the handle or failing to convert, taking an extra step with his dribble, missing shots from inside 8 feet

Even when he's productive, you still get the feeling he's just scratching the surface of what he can do. He can continue to progress and be a really good player, but he also could be the kind of guy whose performance never quite catches up to his potential. If he does perform well with some consistency, it would be a big boost to the team.
I agree Mason is exciting to watch as we all know he is very talented and does some very good things. I was quite impressed with his help-side D in this game and hope he continues to improve defensively.


I am a Miles fan and agree with much of what you say here. He has it in him for sure. My only slight beef is I feel he does move well on defense. I thought he moved well on defense tonight. He is much better offensively than what he is currently showing, that is for sure. Kedsy mentioned several times last year that Miles seemed to play better if he got an early basket, especially an alleyoop dunk. It seemed to kick start him.

There is a lot of talent there. He can help this team that is for sure and like you say, rebounding is a great place to start. Ryan has him in the skill dept but Miles is far and away the better athlete and is quicker, stronger, and better leaper. I really hope he can get it going as it will make this team much stronger. He just needs consistency. What we really need is for him and Ryan to push each other all year to get better and better. Their skill set is different which will force teams to defend each differently. Same with Mason. All 3 have different games which is a positive imo.

We need those 3 to form a solid 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5.

Good news is it is very early in the year.
I agree it will be very interesting to see the interior rotation develop. This team doesn't need a lot of scoring from the bigs, but does require solid defense and rebounding. Even better if the rebounds are uncontested. Fortunately, they can do their jobs very well and not put up huge numbers, if they keep the opposition from getting uncontested shots inside and offensive rebounds.

Sigh. You miss the point. Defensive Rebounds are a big guys' default job. If only one big guy is on the floor, he should collect a lot of defensive rebounds. If two are on teh floor always, he'll collect less.

So yes, mason showed more rebounding this year, but a good part of that was increased opportunities.

Moreover, it's the offensive glass that is the special part of a rebounders ability, that makes a big guy truly elite. Not the defensive glass. And Mason didn't show that today. Thus the rebounds were basically the result of him doing his normal job and not him doing anything special or elite.

Yes he scored more today. But really, don't go considering the boards as a sign of his emergence...he's nowhere near that level yet.
You are certainly not the only person to express this, but I am not sure I understand the dismissing of Mason's double double. Yes, Miami didn't offensive rebound as well as some other teams will. Yes, many of the rebounds weren't contested. Yes, offensive rebounds are harder to get than defensive. As far as I can tell though, defense doesn't end until you gain possession and Mason did that effectively. There is nothing more frustrating than playing a solid defensive possession and then giving up an offensive rebound. I think defensive rebounding is very important to a team that would like to fast break and extremely important for this team.
I am not saying that Mason is right now going to contend for all-ACC honors, but after 2 games, he has done a lot of good things, been in much better defensive position more often than last year, helped anchor a defense that has yielded 105 points in two games, not committed many cheap fouls, made some good decisions offensively (and had a few sloppy turnovers) creating opportunities for his teammates, taken open shots when they were there, looked stronger posting up, gotten a step on his man from the top of the key and looked like a guy who has a ton of potential and is improving bit by bit. I am really looking forward to seeing how he progresses this year, even though he will make lots of mistakes along the way. Not saying that you or others aren't looking forward to that, but, early on, he looks to be making great strides in the right direction.

[CDu]

You are certainly not the only person to express this, but I am not sure I understand the dismissing of Mason's double double. Yes, Miami didn't offensive rebound as well as some other teams will. Yes, many of the rebounds weren't contested. Yes, offensive rebounds are harder to get than defensive. As far as I can tell though, defense doesn't end until you gain possession and Mason did that effectively. There is nothing more frustrating than playing a solid defensive possession and then giving up an offensive rebound. I think defensive rebounding is very important to a team that would like to fast break and extremely important for this team.

There should be no dismissal of the double-double. Any time you can score in double figures, that's an accomplishment. But Miami made literally no effort to grab rebounds for much of the game. So Duke was getting many many uncontested rebounds, and often Mason was the only guy standing under the basket. So in many possessions, the defense effectively ended whenever Miami put up a shot. All we had to do as a team on a lot of possessions was literally catch the ball.

Now, that's not to say that Mason didn't have some rebounds in traffic. But I'd venture that half of his rebounds or more were completely uncontested. That still leaves probably 4-7 rebounds that were contested, which is still a decent number. But the 14 rebounds was definitely inflated by Miami's approach to the game. I'd say that Mason's day seemed more like a 10-and-6 type of day: solid, but not spectacular. His stat line looks much more impressive than the eyeball test.


I am not saying that Mason is right now going to contend for all-ACC honors, but after 2 games, he has done a lot of good things, been in much better defensive position more often than last year, helped anchor a defense that has yielded 105 points in two games, not committed many cheap fouls, made some good decisions offensively (and had a few sloppy turnovers) creating opportunities for his teammates, taken open shots when they were there, looked stronger posting up, gotten a step on his man from the top of the key and looked like a guy who has a ton of potential and is improving bit by bit. I am really looking forward to seeing how he progresses this year, even though he will make lots of mistakes along the way. Not saying that you or others aren't looking forward to that, but, early on, he looks to be making great strides in the right direction.

I agree with this. The obvious caveat is that he's doing it against substantially inferior competition in the post. Hopefully he will be able to continue to avoid those silly fouls/mistakes when we start playing teams that actually have size and skill in the post. I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic. The good thing is that he doesn't need to be a world-beater in the post. He just needs to make the right decisions and not be a defensive liability. If he can make good decisions and let his athleticism make a few plays within the flow of the game, he can be a difference maker even if we don't run the offense through him.

[Greg_Newton]

Greg - if you came up with those nicknames, you are a genius! That is the most fitting set of nicknames for the two of them. I'm guessing that Andre is Iceman and Seth is Maverick?

Haha thank you! That's really who they remind me of when they're on - two young gunners that come in and locked and loaded and just light it up for a while. Seems like they take pride in their roles, and have developed a good kind of a cockiness and swagger between themselves.

Yeah, I figured Andre - with his cool, reserved nature and tendency to hit big shots - had to be Iceman, and Seth, with his more unpredictable style of movement and tendency to take (and make) ridiculous shots, had to be Maverick.

Duke's Top Guns!:p

[Neals384]

I agree with everyone's comments. What a fun tema to watch; they're terrific already with a lot of upside. seems like every returning player has improved tremendously and the froshs look great, esp. KI.

One quibble - there was a fast break where KI took the ball all the way and got fouled. But Kyle was wide open on the right side for a three. Hopefully KI will look to pass in those situations. Still, his poise and maturity is amazing!

Hairston took a couple bad fouls. Playiing the 4 against (often) taller players, he needs to learn how to mix it up without overdoing it.

Neal

[DukeSean]

Haha thank you! That's really who they remind me of when they're on - two young gunners that come in and locked and loaded and just light it up for a while. Seems like they take pride in their roles, and have developed a good kind of a cockiness and swagger between themselves.

Yeah, I figured Andre - with his cool, reserved nature and tendency to hit big shots - had to be Iceman, and Seth, with his more unpredictable style of movement and tendency to take (and make) ridiculous shots, had to be Maverick.

Duke's Top Guns!:p

"That's right, An..dre. I am dangerous..." - Seth

[BD80]

... Is it me, or isn't this just a much more fun brand of BB to watch (compared with some recent teams)?


It's clear our guys have chemistry off the court... It seems like chemistry on the court is coming along, too, with Nolan and Kyrie leading the way. They've got a long way to go if they want to match last year's teamwork, but they seem to be on their way.

These games seem like ESPN sponsored recruiting propoganda! The games are fun to watch and our guys are having so much fun playing the games, what high school player WOULDN'T want to play at Duke? Even playing defense is cool at Duke, you get impose your will on the other team, forbidding them to do anything that they try to do!

[roywhite]

"That's right, An..dre. I am dangerous..." - Seth

I like it.

"You! You are still dangerous! You can be my wing man, anytime." - Andre

"(barnyard expletive). You can be mine." - Seth

[COYS]

I don't know why but I get very frustrated seeing us take bad shots in transition. I love our uptempo style but if nothing is there we need to slow it down and not a take a jumper without a man underneath.

I know that this will not be a problem with some of the worse teams but when we play the ACC schedule or the NCAAT those posessions are valuable and shooting a 3 with no one underneath will cost us.

Perhaps I am stuck in last year's frame of mind but I don't like seeing quick deep shots go up with little to no chance of an offensive rebound.

Don't get me wrong I thuroughly believe that Coach K will address this and have it corrected by NCCAT time but it still frustrates me now.

I think we've had a few muffed attempts at transition, but I thought that we were better against Miami in general than we were against Princeton. We had fewer opportunities, but we capitalized on them at a higher percentage. As for shooting quick threes, this team is so proficient from three that as long as Andre, Kyrie, Seth, Nolan or Kyle is the one taking a completely uncontested three in transition, I'm fine. It's like a return of the JJ Redick layup from three except we've got five guys who can knock that shot down (not that any of them are Redick, but you catch my drift). If there's a 45% chance they knock down the wide open three (and I think that's a realistic assessment) and a 60% chance that they make the 2 against the defender(s) that has gotten back on defense already, the three point shot is a higher value shot. There aren't many teams that can claim that.

[Newton_14]

Regarding Mason and offense, I have no problem with the approach. The fact that K is not kicking chairs and turning beet red when Mason shoots his 1 3-Ball each game tells me that K wants him to take that 1 or maybe 2 3-Balls per game. Otherwise, I assure you the minute the ball left Mason's hand, a sub would be headed to the scorer's table.

In the offense K has designed, he has Mason at times on the wing and elbow for face-up opportunities, where he can shoot, hit a cutter down low with a quick pass, drive and dish, or drive and finish, as well as catches in the post.

I believe he has the green light on that occasional 3 when the defender backs way off. In the Cal-Poly game, I sat across from the Duke bench and Mason took and made an apparent 3 but he had a toe on the line so it counted as a 2. I looked at K and his reaction was no different than any of our kids taking that shot. That does not mean he should be jacking up 6 or 7 three's a game but he has not done that in any game.

In my view where Mason is positioned and catching the ball is by design, otherwise, K would be yanking him. I would still like to see him get more catches in the paint as well, but that is up to K. I would also like to see Miles get more touches in the paint.

The thing is we have so many scoring threats from the guards and wings, most of the offense is geared toward getting those guys shots vs our bigs.

[Hurley2Hill]

I took a ton of pics last night...here are some of the better ones

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jazzturtle/sets/72157625290753221/

[InSpades]

With everything our opponents have to guard, they will never come out and guard Mason's three-point shot. It has a much lower chance of going in than almost any other play we could think to run.

We do agree on something :).

I would bet that any team we play would be happy to give Mason an open look from 3 on every single possession down the court. Not only is it our worst (or 2nd worst) outside shooter taking a 3-pointer but it's also taking 1 of our 2 biggest guys away from the rim for the rebound.

I'm fine with him taking it when the shot clock is running down and we might not get a better shot with the limited time left... but for him to take one early in the shot clock is just settling. There's so much offensive talent on the floor at any given time that we should be able to get high percentage shots consistently. Mason has a ways to go to prove that his 3-pointer is a high percentage shot.

[Jim3k]

Those of us who think Mason's 3-pointers are ill advised should take a small step forward and consider what will happen when (not if) he hits a few of those. And the OP is right. This is by design.

It will open up the middle rather dramatically. As soon as a center comes out on him, it creates a mismatch down low. Their 6-10 guy comes out, rushes Mason, who fakes and slides and passes/lobs into the middle. Their rotations are shot and our other 6-10 is one-on-one with their 6-7. (Or Singler is one on one with anyone.) I think Coach likes that idea a lot. And if we miss, that center is out of position for the rebound, while Miles should be crashing for it.

[slower]

Those of us who think Mason's 3-pointers are ill advised should take a small step forward and consider what will happen when (not if) he hits a few of those. And the OP is right. This is by design.

It will open up the middle rather dramatically. As soon as a center comes out on him, it creates a mismatch down low. Their 6-10 guy comes out, rushes Mason, who fakes and slides and passes/lobs into the middle. Their rotations are shot and our other 6-10 is one-on-one with their 6-7. (Or Singler is one on one with anyone.) I think Coach likes that idea a lot. And if we miss, that center is out of position for the rebound, while Miles should be crashing for it.

You may very well be right about this, but this scenario just FEELS wrong to me. I don't (yet) have your confidence that Mason will definitely start hitting threes at a percentage anywhere close to the better shooters on the team. I hope it happens, but I'm just not convinced that it will. And until it does, he can stand out there alone all day long and shoot, because why WOULD you put a man on him?

OTOH, if he's able to develop something like a Duncan bank-shot or a consistent jump hook (Miles had a nice one) or even the quasi-Gervinesque runner across the lane that he hit last year, then THAT would definitely strike fear into opponents.

Unlike, for example, him sitting out there trying to hit threes.

As always, time will tell.

[sdotbarbee]

Those of us who think Mason's 3-pointers are ill advised should take a small step forward and consider what will happen when (not if) he hits a few of those. And the OP is right. This is by design.It will open up the middle rather dramatically. As soon as a center comes out on him, it creates a mismatch down low. Their 6-10 guy comes out, rushes Mason, who fakes and slides and passes/lobs into the middle. Their rotations are shot and our other 6-10 is one-on-one with their 6-7. (Or Singler is one on one with anyone.) I think Coach likes that idea a lot. And if we miss, that center is out of position for the rebound, while Miles should be crashing for it.

I am not saying it isn't by design, I simply don't like Mase taking 3 pointers. I don't think it is a good shot or a high percentage shot particularly for him, it also pulls him away from the basket and he is our best rebounder. I also feel we could get a better shot with Mase passing the ball to the other big down low, with this team all we have to do is work the ball around and get an open look because we have some deadly shooters. We need the Plumlee's to play their role which is take good shots down low, play good defense, and rebound. I would much rather see Mase and Miles working on taking 15 foot jumpers at the elbow, if they could consistanly hit those it would open up inside and we would be a very tough team to handle. Lance did a good job of this last year, and it is kind of a lost art in the college game, the little mid-range jumper. That is what makes Kyle so good is he can take you off the dribble and pull up for a mid-range jumper instead of trying to take it all the way to the basket and get blocked or picking up a charge.

[jv001]

You may very well be right about this, but this scenario just FEELS wrong to me. I don't (yet) have your confidence that Mason will definitely start hitting threes at a percentage anywhere close to the better shooters on the team. I hope it happens, but I'm just not convinced that it will. And until it does, he can stand out there alone all day long and shoot, because why WOULD you put a man on him?

OTOH, if he's able to develop something like a Duncan bank-shot or a consistent jump hook (Miles had a nice one) or even the quasi-Gervinesque runner across the lane that he hit last year, then THAT would definitely strike fear into opponents.

Unlike, for example, him sitting out there trying to hit threes.

As always, time will tell.

Mason has not shown the ability to hit 3 pointers in games. Does that mean he makes them in practice, or does he just see himself as a good 3 point shooter? I don't think his shooting form is good enough for him to be a consistent outside shooter. Now if he could work on his mid-range game and the jump hook that would really make us a better team. But his defense, rebounding and passing will be what helps this team reach their lofty goals. Go Duke!

[Lord Ash]

Regarding Mason and where he plays; did anyone else notice that on what may have been Ryan Kelly's first time touching the ball against Miami, he immediately went outside and then tossed the ball down to Mason on the inside. While the pass was tipped out, it was yet another example of Ryan looking to go outside and then pass in, and a pretty good pass at that. I love his ability to feed the post, and I hope we use that in order to get Mason single coverage down low.

[gus]

Mason has not shown the ability to hit 3 pointers in games. Does that mean he makes them in practice, or does he just see himself as a good 3 point shooter? I don't think his shooting form is good enough for him to be a consistent outside shooter. Now if he could work on his mid-range game and the jump hook that would really make us a better team. But his defense, rebounding and passing will be what helps this team reach their lofty goals. Go Duke!

Coach K allows players a lot of freedom in his system, but does not take kindly to players taking bad shots. If Mason didn't have the green light to shoot the 3, he would be yanked for doing it.

Pulling up for a 3 in transition is something K advocates in some situations.

Whether or not shots go in, Coach K values good decision making. A bad shot that goes in is still a bad shot. A good shot that misses is still the right shot. That philoshophy became clear to me in K's post game comments in 1996, after Ricky Price missed a buzzer beater in our 1 point loss in Chapel Hill. I haven't found the exact quote, but basically he said "I'm not upset he missed the shot. It was the right shot to take."

[Kedsy]

Pulling up for a 3 in transition is something K advocates in some situations.

I agree with you that K likes good shots and dislikes bad ones. I agree that pulling up for a 3 in transition is a good idea some of the time. But Mason's three-point attempts were not in transition. He never pulls up for a three in transition, nor should he. He barrels toward the hoop and hopes for a thunderdunk.


I would much rather see Mase and Miles working on taking 15 foot jumpers at the elbow, if they could consistanly hit those it would open up inside and we would be a very tough team to handle.

You don't think we're a "very tough team to handle" already?


Those of us who think Mason's 3-pointers are ill advised should take a small step forward and consider what will happen when (not if) he hits a few of those.

I disagree with your reasoning. He will never take more than one or two a game (at least not this season), and thus he will never make enough to force the other team to guard him out there. It just isn't going to happen.

Mason or Miles taking a 3-point shot is a good shot for our opponent. Sure, it might go in, but it has less chance to go in than any other shot we might take. If they could convince Mason to take it every time down the floor they'd be thrilled. And that's why they won't guard him out there even if he makes a few -- it's the shot they want.

[InSpades]

I disagree with your reasoning. He will never take more than one or two a game (at least not this season), and thus he will never make enough to force the other team to guard him out there. It just isn't going to happen.


If Mason really wants to get covered when he's at the top of the 3-point arc then the best thing he can do is actually set a screen. Either with the ball (on a hand-off sort of play) or without the ball. If they don't cover him in that case then they are giving up a 3-point shot to a much higher percentage shooter. Taking the shot himself isn't going to get him covered, the screen certainly will.

[Kedsy]

If Mason really wants to get covered when he's at the top of the 3-point arc then the best thing he can do is actually set a screen. Either with the ball (on a hand-off sort of play) or without the ball. If they don't cover him in that case then they are giving up a 3-point shot to a much higher percentage shooter. Taking the shot himself isn't going to get him covered, the screen certainly will.

That's a good point. If they don't cover him in that case he can also roll to the hoop and get the ball back in a place where he can take a shot that has a chance to get shown on SportsCenter.

[gus]

But Mason's three-point attempts were not in transition. He never pulls up for a three in transition, nor should he. He barrels toward the hoop and hopes for a thunderdunk.

Sorry for the confusion. My comment about transition threes was meant to be a response to a post by noyac, who said:


I don't know why but I get very frustrated seeing us take bad shots in transition. I love our uptempo style but if nothing is there we need to slow it down and not a take a jumper without a man underneath ... Don't get me wrong I thuroughly believe that Coach K will address this and have it corrected by NCCAT time but it still frustrates me now.

S/he was clearly discussing threes. I don't profess to know K's metric for what is a good three in transition and what is not, but I tend to agree with you that Mason shouldn't be shooting transition threes. I didn't see the whole game though, so I wasn't clear if the comment was about him shooting one or not.

I imagine the thinking is something like- if you have the ball, and you're getting beat back to the basket by a quicker player who is out of position to guard your three point attempt, and you hit the shot with some consistency in practice... fire away. I'm not worried too much about a player not being under the basket- the rebound in all liklihood will come far out, and the opponent's momentum will be taking him away from it. I'm sure it's much more complicated than that though.

[sdotbarbee]

I agree with you that K likes good shots and dislikes bad ones. I agree that pulling up for a 3 in transition is a good idea some of the time. But Mason's three-point attempts were not in transition. He never pulls up for a three in transition, nor should he. He barrels toward the hoop and hopes for a thunderdunk.



You don't think we're a "very tough team to handle" already?


I disagree with your reasoning. He will never take more than one or two a game (at least not this season), and thus he will never make enough to force the other team to guard him out there. It just isn't going to happen.

Mason or Miles taking a 3-point shot is a good shot for our opponent. Sure, it might go in, but it has less chance to go in than any other shot we might take. If they could convince Mason to take it every time down the floor they'd be thrilled. And that's why they won't guard him out there even if he makes a few -- it's the shot they want.

I think we are tough to handle, but I do worry about how "tough" we are inside. We lost a lot with Z and Thomas graduating so I do worry a little with our inside game. I worry about the Plumlee's with taking quality shots, playing good defense, and rebounding and none of those did you have to worry about with Z or Lance.

[Kedsy]

I think we are tough to handle, but I do worry about how "tough" we are inside. We lost a lot with Z and Thomas graduating so I do worry a little with our inside game. I worry about the Plumlee's with taking quality shots, playing good defense, and rebounding and none of those did you have to worry about with Z or Lance.

Well I am also watching with interest the quality of the Plumlees' shots, defense, and rebounding, and I have always been a huge proponent of Z and Lance. But if you're talking about being tough to handle on offense I don't know that you could describe us last year as having an "inside game" (other than offensive rebounding). Z and Lance each only took about 3.5 shots per game, and a large percentage of those were rebound putbacks.

[MChambers]

I agree with you that K likes good shots and dislikes bad ones. I agree that pulling up for a 3 in transition is a good idea some of the time. But Mason's three-point attempts were not in transition. He never pulls up for a three in transition, nor should he. He barrels toward the hoop and hopes for a thunderdunk.

Mason or Miles taking a 3-point shot is a good shot for our opponent. Sure, it might go in, but it has less chance to go in than any other shot we might take. If they could convince Mason to take it every time down the floor they'd be thrilled. And that's why they won't guard him out there even if he makes a few -- it's the shot they want.
Not trying to argue, but why do you think Mason has the green light? Or is he shooting against the coaches' wishes?

I agree that Coach K wants "good" shots and I agree that Mason's 3 point attempts seem to be anything but good shots, but he's taking them, and not getting yanked.

[Jderf]

Not trying to argue, but why do you think Mason has the green light? Or is he shooting against the coaches' wishes?

I agree that Coach K wants "good" shots and I agree that Mason's 3 point attempts seem to be anything but good shots, but he's taking them, and not getting yanked.

Just because he's not getting "yanked" does not necessarily mean he has a green light to shoot the three. After all, it hasn't exactly been a rampant problem; over the two opening games of the season, he's taken only one three-pointer. Last year, he took all of eight three-pointers, and I would be surprised if that number changed drastically. It's a bit of a non-issue, really.

[jimsumner]

Duke thinks Mason can make threes if he takes good shots. Some of his threes have not been good shots. So, they're working with him to facilitate better decision making in that area.

Inasmuch as Duke is two games into the season, this seems like a prudent step with a potentially big pay-off big down the road. Big men can be taught to shoot from the outside. Mark Alarie, Danny Ferry, John Smith, Christian Laettner, Cherokee Parks, Roshown McLeod and Shane Battier are among the Duke post players who have dramatically improved that aspect of the game during their tenure at Duke.

Parks didn't make a single three in 435 minutes as a freshman. He made 31 as a senior. Battier was 4-24 on threes as a freshman. He was 124-296 as a senior.

So, it's probably a tad early to write-off Mason as a three-point threat down the road.

[sdotbarbee]

Well I am also watching with interest the quality of the Plumlees' shots, defense, and rebounding, and I have always been a huge proponent of Z and Lance. But if you're talking about being tough to handle on offense I don't know that you could describe us last year as having an "inside game" (other than offensive rebounding). Z and Lance each only took about 3.5 shots per game, and a large percentage of those were rebound putbacks.

That is my point exactly, Z and Lance knew their role. They didn't have to score they needed to play D, get rebounds and take good shots. The Plumlee's don't have to score, but we do need them playing defense and getting rebounds. I am not really concerned with how many shots the Plumlee's take as long as they are good shots and Mase shooting a 3 is not a good shot. I would be happy if the Plumlee's together averaged 16-18ppg and 15-17 rpg all while playing good defense.

[MChambers]

Duke thinks Mason can make threes if he takes good shots. Some of his threes have not been good shots. So, they're working with him to facilitate better decision making in that area.

Inasmuch as Duke is two games into the season, this seems like a prudent step with a potentially big pay-off big down the road. Big men can be taught to shoot from the outside. Mark Alarie, Danny Ferry, John Smith, Christian Laettner, Cherokee Parks, Roshown McLeod and Shane Battier are among the Duke post players who have dramatically improved that aspect of the game during their tenure at Duke.

Parks didn't make a single three in 435 minutes as a freshman. He made 31 as a senior. Battier was 4-24 on threes as a freshman. He was 124-296 as a senior.

So, it's probably a tad early to write-off Mason as a three-point threat down the road.
Once again, we get the actual facts from Mr. Sumner. Good to know. Let's hope Mason's decision making on those threes improves, as well as his percentage. In the meantime, I will try not to gnash my teeth when he shoots them.

[sdotbarbee]

Duke thinks Mason can make threes if he takes good shots. Some of his threes have not been good shots. So, they're working with him to facilitate better decision making in that area.

Inasmuch as Duke is two games into the season, this seems like a prudent step with a potentially big pay-off big down the road. Big men can be taught to shoot from the outside. Mark Alarie, Danny Ferry, John Smith, Christian Laettner, Cherokee Parks, Roshown McLeod and Shane Battier are among the Duke post players who have dramatically improved that aspect of the game during their tenure at Duke.

Parks didn't make a single three in 435 minutes as a freshman. He made 31 as a senior. Battier was 4-24 on threes as a freshman. He was 124-296 as a senior.

So, it's probably a tad early to write-off Mason as a three-point threat down the road.

I don't mean any disrespect here but if a wide open 3 pointer is not a good shot what kind of 3 pointer is a good shot? On another note Jim do you know how many 3's Laettner took in his career because I can't find it. I was astonished that he was a career 49% 3 point shooter while at Duke.

[tylervinyard]

Just because he's not getting "yanked" does not necessarily mean he has a green light to shoot the three.

Also, I think we have to understand that just because Coach K would immediately yank a player after a mistake in the past, does not mean he's going to do it this year. Coach K is probably the most adaptable coach in the business, and he's shown a willingness to learn and evolve over time. Maybe his National Team experience has taught him to let players have more freedom in games, but correct those mistakes during practice and while reviewing game film. Maybe being the master psychologist that K is, he's realized that Mason is one of those players that will not react well to immediate benching after mistakes, and for someone as important as Mason is to this team's success, he doesn't want to pull him after one mistake. Maybe he also doesn't want our players playing tentative which can happen when players are yanked after each mistake. This year we have more room for error with the fast pace we're playing at so maybe there's no reason why we need to always execute every single thing perfectly like last year's team. Practice perfectly and play loose? Also, one knock against Duke in recruiting I've heard is the lack of freedom K gives players in games. He's proven he can adapt in developing a system that emphasizes each team's strengths, however, within each system, how much freedom do the players really have? Whether or not the freedom thing is a real issue, it seems to be a "perceived" issue, so anything that can be done to rectify that image should help recruiting even more. I think, of course, winning will always be the top reason to want to play for K, but there's other coaches with similar rates of success who don't have the perception of absolute control K seems to have over his teams. I've definitely learned that perceptions are hard to shake even if they are not true, similar to everyone still saying that Duke players are not successful in the NBA which is hogwash. In comparison to Roy who appears to have become a total control freak within just the last year, K really seems to be changing his image. Or maybe, for me, it just seems that way in comparison to our biggest rival's coach making an absolute fool of himself everytime he opens his mouth.

[sagegrouse]

I don't mean any disrespect here but if a wide open 3 pointer is not a good shot what kind of 3 pointer is a good shot? On another note Jim do you know how many 3's Laettner took in his career because I can't find it. I was astonished that he was a career 49% 3 point shooter while at Duke.

It's as far away as GoDuke.com (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=222). Laettner was 79 of 163 from 3pt land.

sagegrouse

[MChambers]

I don't mean any disrespect here but if a wide open 3 pointer is not a good shot what kind of 3 pointer is a good shot?
My impression is that most players are better shooters off the catch, in rhythym, than off the dribble. Several of Mason's longer shots have been after a dribble or two. He also hasn't had his feet particularly well set.

He's also shot some long shots very early in the shot clock. Maybe that's an issue as well.

[jimsumner]

It's as far away as GoDuke.com (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=222). Laettner was 79 of 163 from 3pt land.

sagegrouse

Laettner was 1-1 as a freshman.

6-12 as a sophomore

18-53 as a junior

54-97 as a senior.

[jimsumner]

My impression is that most players are better shooters off the catch, in rhythym, than off the dribble. Several of Mason's longer shots have been after a dribble or two. He also hasn't had his feet particularly well set.

He's also shot some long shots very early in the shot clock. Maybe that's an issue as well.

Good point. A lot of his threes have been what I call "why not?" threes. You've got the ball, no one is guarding you especially close, nobody is moving to get open, the clock is ticking and you think "why not?"

These shots do not come off the flow of the offense, are not in rhythm and rarely go in.

[Jderf]

Good point. A lot of his threes have been what I call "why not?" threes. You've got the ball, no one is guarding you especially close, nobody is moving to get open, the clock is ticking and you think "why not?"

These shots do not come off the flow of the offense, are not in rhythm and rarely go in.

On the other hand, we haven't really seen Mason show an aptitude for the kind of catch-and-shoot threes that would be considered "in the flow of the offense," and I doubt that coach K is going to run any sets specifically to clear shooting space for him at the 3-point line (at least not at this point). How exactly would Duke incorporate his shooting into the flow of the offense if not by telling him to take the shot when available?

[Kedsy]

I would be happy if the Plumlee's together averaged 16-18ppg and 15-17 rpg all while playing good defense.

I would hope you would be happy with that. Assuming they split the stats evenly, that would give each Plumlee 8.5 points per game and 8 rebounds per game. Last season in the ACC only six players achieved both those figures (or higher): Al-Farouq Aminu, Ed Davis, Gani Lawal, Derrick Favors, Trevor Booker, and Jordan Williams. Five of the six were first round NBA draft picks last year (three in the lottery), and Williams probably will be in the near future.

So, it ought to go without saying that you'd be happy if both Plumlees were among the top six big men in the conference.

Incidentally, last season Lance and Z combined for 10.4 ppg and 12.6 rpg. I'll be happy if Mason and Miles combine for the same.

[Dukeface88]

Is anyone reminded of the discussion about Lance's mid-range jumper last season? He wasn't hitting those early on either. That worked out pretty well by the end of the year.

[jimsumner]

On the other hand, we haven't really seen Mason show an aptitude for the kind of catch-and-shoot threes that would be considered "in the flow of the offense," and I doubt that coach K is going to run any sets specifically to clear shooting space for him at the 3-point line (at least not at this point). How exactly would Duke incorporate his shooting into the flow of the offense if not by telling him to take the shot when available?

He gets the ball and shoots. Of if he doesn't have the shot, he gets the ball to a ball handler and starts all over.

As opposed to getting the ball, looking, dribbling, stopping his dribble, looking some more and then shooting.

This isn't Mason-specific. It happens to lots of players in lots of games. Duke didn't run Laettner or Parks off screens either.

He'll figure it out.

[hq2]

We have about half a dozen other guys who can shoot threes; we don't need Mason shooting them too. Mason needs to spend his time working on his face up or low post games. That's what we need him to do, which he hasn't done consistently.

[_TheFakeJWill_]

Laettner was 1-1 as a freshman.

6-12 as a sophomore

18-53 as a junior

54-97 as a senior.
WOW he went from 1 to 97... Classic! what a stud in college. to bad i was too young and wasnt a Duke fan at the time to remember his play at Duke.

[InSpades]

Is anyone reminded of the discussion about Lance's mid-range jumper last season? He wasn't hitting those early on either. That worked out pretty well by the end of the year.

Part of the reason it was important for Lance to have an outside shot was because he really didn't really have much other offense. Additionally he was often on the court w/ another big who also wasn't that adept offensively.

I think it's less important for Mason to have an outside shot because of the firepower the rest of the lineup has (as well as his potential to score around the basket). At the very least I think he should prove that he can shoot a free throw before taking 3-pointers :).

[Newton_14]

We have about half a dozen other guys who can shoot threes; we don't need Mason shooting them too. Mason needs to spend his time working on his face up or low post games. That's what we need him to do, which he hasn't done consistently.

Sorry but posts like this makes me scratch my head. Really. Jim has confirmed what some of us have suspected. Mason is doing what Coach K and the Staff are asking him to do. When we see him on the perimeter that is where he is supposed to be. K moves Mason around a lot on offense, sometimes inside, sometimes out.

Yet people keep saying "We need Mason to camp out under the basket, never shoot an outside shot" etc. Why is it so hard to accept that the kid is simply doing what is asked of him by Coach K?

Not meaning to pick on you specifically here, yours is just the latest of the "I need" or "We need" or "Mason needs to do X" posts. It just baffles me that folks cannot accept how K is running the system.

K believes Mason can become an effective shooter out there which will open up a ton of things in the offense if he becomes successful at it. The kid is simply not a back to the basket power center.

The good news for those pining for that is that Marshall is that type of player so you will get that from him when he gets here.

[-jk]

If Mason can hit the three in even a barely competent way, defenses can't leave him alone. That's really valuable. It's not so much the actual points, but pulling his defender out to open the lane or prevent the double.

The cliche, "keep the defense honest", comes to mind.

I don't really expect it to be a major weapon, but you never know. Hell, if he gets really comfortable with it then bombs away!


-jk

[dukebluelemur]

We have about half a dozen other guys who can shoot threes; we don't need Mason shooting them too. Mason needs to spend his time working on his face up or low post games. That's what we need him to do, which he hasn't done consistently.

This. Every guy getting regular minutes and NOT named Plumlee can shoot a good percentage from three. It's unnecessary. I want him getting the ball in the paint, or around the FT line, not beyond the arc. To be a great team, we need a Shelden or Boozer, not a McBob.

[InSpades]

If Mason can hit the three in even a barely competent way, defenses can't leave him alone. That's really valuable. It's not so much the actual points, but pulling his defender out to open the lane or prevent the double.

The cliche, "keep the defense honest", comes to mind.

I don't really expect it to be a major weapon, but you never know. Hell, if he gets really comfortable with it then bombs away!


-jk

What is "barely competent" to you? 25%? If he's a 25% shooter from 3 then why would any team cover him there? Barely competent doesn't keep defenses honest. He'd need to be hitting closer to 35% for defenses to really respect the shot.

He's much more effective out there as a screener than a shooter.

[Indoor66]

The good news for those pining for that is that Marshall is that type of player so you will get that from him when he gets here.

Yeah. A front line of M. Plumlee, M. Plumlee & M. Plumlee - 6'10 ', 7'0", 6'11". Now that is a front line!

[Greg_Newton]

If Mason can hit the three in even a barely competent way, defenses can't leave him alone. That's really valuable. It's not so much the actual points, but pulling his defender out to open the lane or prevent the double.

I'm not sure this is true. If I'm an opposing coach, I'll give him that shot all day, even if he makes one of his first couple. If you can reduce Duke's offense to Mason shooting open 3's every possession, that's a pretty darn good defensive gameplan. It's going to be a fairly low percentage shot even if he hits a few, and perhaps more importantly, we're almost never going to get the offensive rebound.

I get the feeling Mason ends up shooting those threes because he's being disrespected by his man sagging off 10 feet, and feels like it would be embarassing to just put his head down and pass it while his man is effectively daring him to shoot it. If the coaches want him shooting threes in the flow of the offense, then I wish he'd catch it squared up, facing the basket, and ready to shoot. The rushed shots he's been taking after hesitating several seconds and realizing he's open seem like a bailout for the defense.

[Poincaré]

Battier was 4-24 on threes as a freshman. He was 124-296 as a senior.

Shane also owned the Duke record for most threes in a game (9 against Princeton?). Jason might have tied it later. I wonder if JJ ever broke that record. There was that one game where he went bananas against Texas. Someone look it up quick!

Was there anything Shane didn't do?

[MChambers]

This. Every guy getting regular minutes and NOT named Plumlee can shoot a good percentage from three. It's unnecessary. I want him getting the ball in the paint, or around the FT line, not beyond the arc. To be a great team, we need a Shelden or Boozer, not a McBob.
Obviously, one of the greatest basketball coaches of all time doesn't agree with you, which may make you want to reconsider your position.

[NSDukeFan]

I'm not sure this is true. If I'm an opposing coach, I'll give him that shot all day, even if he makes one of his first couple. If you can reduce Duke's offense to Mason shooting open 3's every possession, that's a pretty darn good defensive gameplan. It's going to be a fairly low percentage shot even if he hits a few, and perhaps more importantly, we're almost never going to get the offensive rebound.

I get the feeling Mason ends up shooting those threes because he's being disrespected by his man sagging off 10 feet, and feels like it would be embarassing to just put his head down and pass it while his man is effectively daring him to shoot it. If the coaches want him shooting threes in the flow of the offense, then I wish he'd catch it squared up, facing the basket, and ready to shoot. The rushed shots he's been taking after hesitating several seconds and realizing he's open seem like a bailout for the defense.

I don't disagree with your first statement that opposing coaches may be happy to have him shoot that shot, but if he can get to the point that he makes it 35% of the time and takes it every once in awhile, I don't see a problem. I am pretty sure Duke won't get into an offense this year where Mason is shooting threes on every possession.

My impression is that one of the great things about Mason is his ball-handling, vision and perimeter skills on a solid 6-10 frame. I think it would be a waste to take that talent and have him chained to the post or setting screens. Unfortunately, he hasn't figured out yet how to best use his very impressive skill set. Which is ok for someone who is starting his sophomore season. I would guess that Mason is probably a pretty good perimeter shooter in practise, but that hasn't translated to games yet. No, he is probably not one of the team's top 5 perimeter shooters, but that doesn't mean he should never shoot from outside. It may not stretch the defense out as they may not guard him out there, but maybe instead of our guards taking contested shots, he is taking wide open ones. Or, maybe it does pull his man out a bit to open up the inside.

I think those that are waiting for Mason to turn into Boozer or Shelden are going to be sadly disappointed. Those that are looking for a multi-talented, athletic 6-10 player with decent perimeter skills, who can create shots for himself and his teammates may at some point this year and in future years, be very excited with what Mason brings to the table, IMO.

I don't think Mason shoots the 3 because he is disrespected (again just my impression.) I just think that he realizes that he is so wide open, feels it is a shot he can make, but ends up taking it without being in a good rhythm. I agree very much with your last two sentences.

[jimsumner]

If Mason can hit the three in even a barely competent way, defenses can't leave him alone. That's really valuable. It's not so much the actual points, but pulling his defender out to open the lane or prevent the double.

The cliche, "keep the defense honest", comes to mind.

I don't really expect it to be a major weapon, but you never know. Hell, if he gets really comfortable with it then bombs away!


-jk

I'm reminded of the two times at Duke that Laettner was matched against Shaq. Laettner's ability to hit jumpers from the outside forced Shaq to come out and guard him. That enabled Laettner to drive by O'Neal and go the basket. Laettner outplayed Shaq in Durham and played him to a draw in Baton Rogue. And not many centers outplayed Shaq in college.

And Duke won both games.

[-jk]

What is "barely competent" to you? 25%? If he's a 25% shooter from 3 then why would any team cover him there? Barely competent doesn't keep defenses honest. He'd need to be hitting closer to 35% for defenses to really respect the shot.

He's much more effective out there as a screener than a shooter.

I would say 33% when he has the time to set up. I don't expect him to catch and shoot on the fly or shake a defender with dazzling ball handling. He's open, he sets, he shoots. Nothing fancy.

-jk

[COYS]

I'm reminded of the two times at Duke that Laettner was matched against Shaq. Laettner's ability to hit jumpers from the outside forced Shaq to come out and guard him. That enabled Laettner to drive by O'Neal and go the basket. Laettner outplayed Shaq in Durham and played him to a draw in Baton Rogue. And not many centers outplayed Shaq in college.

And Duke won both games.

As always, a great lesson from the past. Mason may look uncomfortable now, but if he can learn that shot it will make the team more. If he can't, I'm sure the coaches will tell him to stop taking it.

[Greg_Newton]

I don't disagree with your first statement that opposing coaches may be happy to have him shoot that shot, but if he can get to the point that he makes it 35% of the time and takes it every once in awhile, I don't see a problem. I am pretty sure Duke won't get into an offense this year where Mason is shooting threes on every possession.

My impression is that one of the great things about Mason is his ball-handling, vision and perimeter skills on a solid 6-10 frame. I think it would be a waste to take that talent and have him chained to the post or setting screens. Unfortunately, he hasn't figured out yet how to best use his very impressive skill set. Which is ok for someone who is starting his sophomore season. I would guess that Mason is probably a pretty good perimeter shooter in practise, but that hasn't translated to games yet. No, he is probably not one of the team's top 5 perimeter shooters, but that doesn't mean he should never shoot from outside. It may not stretch the defense out as they may not guard him out there, but maybe instead of our guards taking contested shots, he is taking wide open ones. Or, maybe it does pull his man out a bit to open up the inside.

It's a decent shot if he's a 35% shooter, I'm just not convinced he is that yet - he's 2-9 in his career so far, and has missed several of those long or wide, which is generally not a great sign. Maybe he's making it rain in practice though, and that will show soon. Hope so.

Still, it's not quite the same as a 35% perimeter player taking a three, because there's generally no one under the basket or crashing the boards when he takes them - usually one player at most.

Personally, I would prefer he get the ball around the free throw line and elbows, where he has been very effective with one-dribble moves and (sometimes) finishing and (especially) kicking it out to an open man. Ryan seems to be the post man who should be receiving it at the top of the key, as he is a very good shooter and passer from that spot.

[roywhite]

Mason is currently not a good shooter from 21 feet; he may at some point become a good shooter from that distance and that would indeed add a dimension to his game and to our offense overall.

Unfortunately, he is currently not a good shooter from 6 feet, 8 feet, 10 feet, or 15 feet (as in the FT line). To my mind, his improvement from 10 feet on in, and shooting FT's is of greater importance than his development at 3-point shooting. First things first.

[InSpades]

I would say 33% when he has the time to set up. I don't expect him to catch and shoot on the fly or shake a defender with dazzling ball handling. He's open, he sets, he shoots. Nothing fancy.

-jk

33% is about what Gerald shot his junior year . Mason doesn't look anywhere near as comfortable shooting 3s as Gerald did that year. He's a 53% career free throw shooter. I don't know many players (NBA or college) who shoot 53% from the free throw line and 30%+ from the 3-point line. When he can show a decent mid-range jump shot like Miles does then maybe I'd feel more comfortable seeing Mason shoot from further out.

Edit: Looking at things... Demarcus was probably the best example of a good 3 point shooter but a bad free throw shooter (Taylor King too).

[House G]

I'm reminded of the two times at Duke that Laettner was matched against Shaq. Laettner's ability to hit jumpers from the outside forced Shaq to come out and guard him. That enabled Laettner to drive by O'Neal and go the basket. Laettner outplayed Shaq in Durham and played him to a draw in Baton Rogue. And not many centers outplayed Shaq in college.

And Duke won both games.

In fairness to Shaq, LSU's supprting cast in Durham was woeful. Their guards could barely get the ball up the court. Duke was able to collapse on Shaq and he was constantly double- and triple-teamed. The game the following year in the PMAC was phenomenal--Grant Hill played point guard for an injured Hurley. Duke trailed most of the game but won it down the stretch when Laettner hit two 3's and Shaq missed a plethora of FTs.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

33% is about what Gerald shot his junior year . Mason doesn't look anywhere near as comfortable shooting 3s as Gerald did that year. He's a 53% career free throw shooter. I don't know many players (NBA or college) who shoot 53% from the free throw line and 30%+ from the 3-point line. When he can show a decent mid-range jump shot like Miles does then maybe I'd feel more comfortable seeing Mason shoot from further out.

Edit: Looking at things... Demarcus was probably the best example of a good 3 point shooter but a bad free throw shooter (Taylor King too).

Bruce Bowen (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bowenbr01.html)

I know you said you don't know many ... but the tone of your argument sounded like you were arguing that there are not really any. Bowen immediately came to mind. He could really shoot the three some years. And boy was he a terrible foul shooter for whatever reason.

[dukebluelemur]

Obviously, one of the greatest basketball coaches of all time doesn't agree with you, which may make you want to reconsider your position.


Then clearly all of us should just shut up and we can close down this whole DBR thing and be done with it, since there's no point in debating anything the coach does.

It's the internet, we're fans, its what we do. If you can't contribute to the debate beyond the level of "Anyone that doesn't agree with EVERYTHING K ever says, does, or thinks is stupid" then just go away.

I doubt Rupp, Wooden, Knight, Smith, Izzo, etc. would agree with everything K says or does, it doesn't mean either is wrong or right, its an opinion. I stated MY opinion, which boils down to "If you're 7 foot tall and cant hit a freaking FT, then STAY UNDER THE BASKET." You're entitled to disagree, not to just be an...

[/rant]

[sivartrenrag]

In regards to the negative MP2-McBob comparisons that I see/hear quite often:

If Mason averages 13pts and 8rb per game this year and earns All-ACC second team honors, we'll probably repeat. So I hope he's as good as McBob was his sophomore year.

[-jk]

Let's keep the debate from getting personal, please, folks.

-jk

[MChambers]

Then clearly all of us should just shut up and we can close down this whole DBR thing and be done with it, since there's no point in debating anything the coach does.

It's the internet, we're fans, its what we do. If you can't contribute to the debate beyond the level of "Anyone that doesn't agree with EVERYTHING K ever says, does, or thinks is stupid" then just go away.

I doubt Rupp, Wooden, Knight, Smith, Izzo, etc. would agree with everything K says or does, it doesn't mean either is wrong or right, its an opinion. I stated MY opinion, which boils down to "If you're 7 foot tall and cant hit a freaking FT, then STAY UNDER THE BASKET." You're entitled to disagree, not to just be an...

[/rant]
I didn't mean to be harsh, but I guess it read that way. Sorry to make you rant.

Hey, I get frustrated when Mason shoots 3s, especially the "why not" shots, as Jim calls them. I was just trying to say that I think those of us who are criticizing the shots need to recognize that a great coach is encouraging him to take 3s and realize that maybe we're missing something. Boozer did a great post earlier in the thread pointing this out, and yet several folks posted more criticisms of Mason's shooting.

[hq2]

Unfortunately, he is currently not a good shooter from 6 feet, 8 feet, 10 feet, or 15 feet (as in the FT line). To my mind, his improvement from 10 feet on in, and shooting FT's is of greater importance than his development at 3-point shooting. First things first.

Precisely. You have to walk before you can run. If Mason were already a good shooter, that would be one thing. However, he isn't, and I'd say he's years away from being able to shoot effectively at 3- point range. The Laettner comparisons aren't that accurate, because when Laettner came in, he was already a decent mid-range shooter, which Mason isn't.

If Mason could consistently hit the open 10-15 footer, that would improve his offense enormously. That would force the defense to play up on him, giving him more room to drive, which he appears to like to do. But we don't need him out at the 3 point line unless he's setting screens for the other 3 point shooters.

[sdotbarbee]

I would hope you would be happy with that. Assuming they split the stats evenly, that would give each Plumlee 8.5 points per game and 8 rebounds per game. Last season in the ACC only six players achieved both those figures (or higher): Al-Farouq Aminu, Ed Davis, Gani Lawal, Derrick Favors, Trevor Booker, and Jordan Williams. Five of the six were first round NBA draft picks last year (three in the lottery), and Williams probably will be in the near future.

So, it ought to go without saying that you'd be happy if both Plumlees were among the top six big men in the conference.

Incidentally, last season Lance and Z combined for 10.4 ppg and 12.6 rpg. I'll be happy if Mason and Miles combine for the same.

I was assuming it would not be split evenly considering Miles is averaging 3ppg and 3rpg, while Mason is averaging about 8ppg and 9rpg. There would be your 11ppg and 12rpg that you would be happy with, unfortunately I am not happy with that. Miles could do a lot more and so could Mason, Miles is shooting 25% from the free throw line while Mason is shooting 43%, which is unacceptable. I don't think asking for 16ppg and 16rpg is asking too much from the Plumlee's. I honestly don't care as much about the points as I do about the rebounds, we are not as deep in the frontcourt this year so Miles and Mason, I feel, have to do more then Lance and Brian did last year.

[sdotbarbee]

Mason is currently not a good shooter from 21 feet; he may at some point become a good shooter from that distance and that would indeed add a dimension to his game and to our offense overall.

Unfortunately, he is currently not a good shooter from 6 feet, 8 feet, 10 feet, or 15 feet (as in the FT line). To my mind, his improvement from 10 feet on in, and shooting FT's is of greater importance than his development at 3-point shooting. First things first.

Wow great post glad I am not the only one that can't for the life of me understand Mason shooting 3's. I said it earlier that he would be much more dangerous and help the team out more if he could develop a 10-15 foot jumper, he doesn't need to shoot 3's, whether they are "good" 3's or "bad" 3's.

[Kedsy]

I was assuming it would not be split evenly considering Miles is averaging 3ppg and 3rpg, while Mason is averaging about 8ppg and 9rpg. There would be your 11ppg and 12rpg that you would be happy with, unfortunately I am not happy with that. Miles could do a lot more and so could Mason, Miles is shooting 25% from the free throw line while Mason is shooting 43%, which is unacceptable. I don't think asking for 16ppg and 16rpg is asking too much from the Plumlee's. I honestly don't care as much about the points as I do about the rebounds, we are not as deep in the frontcourt this year so Miles and Mason, I feel, have to do more then Lance and Brian did last year.

Mason's 8 and 9 is skewed by the 14 boards he got against Miami which were for the most part uncontested. I'll be very surprised if he averages 9 rebounds a game for any length of time (9 rebs a game, by the way, would have been 3rd in the ACC last year; I like Mason but I just don't think he's that good a rebounder). So while Miles's rebounding should increase from 3, Mason's will probably decrease by a similar amount. If we get 14 rpg combined from the Plumlees I'll be ecstatic, although 12 is a more realistic number. I hope you get your wish, but I think 16 is a pipe dream. Same with points, although perhaps 14 is possible there too.

As far as last year being deeper and thus needing more from the Plumlees this year, you have to remember that last year's frontcourt also played more minutes than this year's frontcourt is going to play. Last year the bigs played the full 80 minutes. This year so far they are playing only 65 and based on the rotations we're seeing that won't get any higher than 70. So the total frontcourt production can be a little more than 80% of last year's production and it will be the same, at least from a rebounding perspective. Although that's still misleading because we don't figure to get nearly as many offensive rebounds as we did last year and (as has been discussed in other threads) that's OK. From a points standpoint, they don't even have to get as much as 80% because during the 10 or 15 minutes the second big isn't playing, we'll have a much more potent scorer in the game than we ever had playing the 4 last year.

So I'll still be happy if Miles and Mason combine for 11 and 12.

[COYS]

I was assuming it would not be split evenly considering Miles is averaging 3ppg and 3rpg, while Mason is averaging about 8ppg and 9rpg. There would be your 11ppg and 12rpg that you would be happy with, unfortunately I am not happy with that. Miles could do a lot more and so could Mason, Miles is shooting 25% from the free throw line while Mason is shooting 43%, which is unacceptable. I don't think asking for 16ppg and 16rpg is asking too much from the Plumlee's. I honestly don't care as much about the points as I do about the rebounds, we are not as deep in the frontcourt this year so Miles and Mason, I feel, have to do more then Lance and Brian did last year.

I think it's too early to assume that Miles' numbers are going to remain as low as they are right now. His career rebounding percentage is high enough that his rebounding numbers should go up soon. If Mason stays at 8rpg, that would be incredible, but I'd expect him to drop just a bit so I'd think that the rebound numbers for both will be closer to even than they are now. I DO expect Mason's scoring numbers to be better than Miles' though and I agree with you, sdotbarbee, that we do need their rebounding to be strong as it will make our defense so much stronger. We will be forcing a lot of terrible shots as our guards apply this intense pressure. If the Plums can collect those misses and start the break (which Mason has had a few great outlet passes so far this season), it makes our offense stronger, as well.

[sdotbarbee]

Mason's 8 and 9 is skewed by the 14 boards he got against Miami which were for the most part uncontested. I'll be very surprised if he averages 9 rebounds a game for any length of time (9 rebs a game, by the way, would have been 3rd in the ACC last year; I like Mason but I just don't think he's that good a rebounder). So while Miles's rebounding should increase from 3, Mason's will probably decrease by a similar amount. If we get 14 rpg combined from the Plumlees I'll be ecstatic, although 12 is a more realistic number. I hope you get your wish, but I think 16 is a pipe dream. Same with points, although perhaps 14 is possible there too.

As far as last year being deeper and thus needing more from the Plumlees this year, you have to remember that last year's frontcourt also played more minutes than this year's frontcourt is going to play. Last year the bigs played the full 80 minutes. This year so far they are playing only 65 and based on the rotations we're seeing that won't get any higher than 70. So the total frontcourt production can be a little more than 80% of last year's production and it will be the same, at least from a rebounding perspective. Although that's still misleading because we don't figure to get nearly as many offensive rebounds as we did last year and (as has been discussed in other threads) that's OK. From a points standpoint, they don't even have to get as much as 80% because during the 10 or 15 minutes the second big isn't playing, we'll have a much more potent scorer in the game than we ever had playing the 4 last year.

So I'll still be happy if Miles and Mason combine for 11 and 12.


Well last year together they averaged 9 and 8, so I would like them to average more then 11 and 12 since they should get more playing time and should be better this year. Like I said I am not so much worried about the points as I am rebounding, our 4 "bigs" last year averaged 21 boards a game and the "bigs" this year are averaging 17 with Mason's "skewed" rebounding numbers.

[Kedsy]

Well last year together they averaged 9 and 8, so I would like them to average more then 11 and 12 since they should get more playing time and should be better this year. Like I said I am not so much worried about the points as I am rebounding, our 4 "bigs" last year averaged 21 boards a game and the "bigs" this year are averaging 17 with Mason's "skewed" rebounding numbers.

Well, based on the differing styles of play and the fact that Z focused almost exclusively on rebounding, logic would suggest our bigs will have fewer rebounds this year. Certainly, with our 4 bigs averaging 81% of the minutes of our bigs last year (65/80), it would be hard to ask them for more than 81% of the rebounds (17/21). Collectively, our bigs are so far rebounding at pretty much the same rate per minute as last year, which is terrific.

So I still think the numbers so far are fine. I expect Mason's rebound average to drop and Miles's to increase, probably by about the same amount, so the numbers will still be fine. You are of course free to disagree, but I just think your expectation of 16 and 16 for the two Plumless is wildly unrealistic.

[dukebluelemur]

IF mods disapprove of the bump, feel free to respond accordingly, but I thought it would be interesting to check back in, in light of all the "He's only doing what K told him!" responses in this thread and via the anonymity of the comment system.

Since the Miami game Mason has played more minutes (Except colgate, due to fouls) and had a break-out game, and hasn't attempted a single three.

Maybe K wasn't as excited about him taking that shot as you all assumed?

[Newton_14]

IF mods disapprove of the bump, feel free to respond accordingly, but I thought it would be interesting to check back in, in light of all the "He's only doing what K told him!" responses in this thread and via the anonymity of the comment system.

Since the Miami game Mason has played more minutes (Except colgate, due to fouls) and had a break-out game, and hasn't attempted a single three.

Maybe K wasn't as excited about him taking that shot as you all assumed?

Like I said before, kids either follow K's instructions, or they sit. In the games prior to Marquette, Mason played a lot of minutes at the 4 against team's playing zones, which led to him being in the high post and out on the wing. He took one 3 in most of those games, mainly when he was left wide open.

In the 2 games in Kansas City he played a lot of minutes at the 5 against man to man defense, and I don't recall a single time where he was left wide open on a catch out on the wing, which in turn, led to him driving or passing, rather than looking for the shot. Playing the 5 in those games also gave him more catches in the paint than he gets when playing the 4.

In all of those games it is my belief he was following the gameplan as laid out by K and the staff. As Jim Sumner posted, the staff believes Mason can become a respectable shooter out there. Does not mean he is going to chuck up 5 or 6 three's a game, but no one has called for him to shoot that many either.

When he is at the 4 and has catches out on the wing we will see the occasional 3-ball attempt from him, and I for one believe Jim when he states the staff is supportive of that.

[Reilly]

Charlie Coles died.