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View Full Version : Indiana woos Zeller. Was it "legal"?



WiJoe
11-15-2010, 07:23 PM
If I remember correctly, given that Duke students were instructed to take down Kyrie Irving banners on campus when he made his official visit, is what Indiana people did "legal" in regards to NCAA regulations?

Here's an article by Bob Kravitz of the Indianapolis Star with info about signs for Cody Zeller on campus during his visit: http://www.indystar.com/article/20101114/SPORTS15/11140358/1034/SPORTS15/Signing-Zeller-took-impressive-group-effort-at-IU

loran16
11-15-2010, 07:36 PM
[QUOTE=WiJoe;447021]If I remember correctly, given that Duke students were instructed to take down Kyrie Irving banners on campus when he made his official visit, is what Indiana people did "legal" in regards to NCAA regulations?

Signing Zeller took impressive group effort at IU
Bob Kravitz, Indianapolis Star...

SilkyJ
11-15-2010, 07:37 PM
^Given what we did when Kyrie and HB came to town (i.e. took down all the banners that said "we want kyrie") I'd say its a violation of some sorts. But this is where the NCAA has to use its head -- how the heck is the coaching staff supposed to police a campus of tens of thousands of students? Check every house to make sure the banners aren't up?

Now, its different if the players/staff were encouraging it, but broadly speaking this has to be a tough type of violation for a school to try and act against, especially with off-campus housing, etc. and tougher for the NCAA to enforce.

phaedrus
11-15-2010, 07:40 PM
You didn't need to post the whole article.

But no, that's clearly a violation. But I doubt it'll be big enough to mean anything.

Why do you think so? Just the fact that Duke did things differently? Curious if anyone knows which violation this would implicate.

loran16
11-15-2010, 07:45 PM
Why do you think so? Just the fact that Duke did things differently? Curious if anyone knows which violation this would implicate.

Quoting a chronicle article:

" Signs around West Campus urging Kyrie Irving to commit to Duke might have looked cool, but they might have also committed something else: a violation of NCAA rules.

According to the Charlotte Observer and confirmed by associate director of athletics Jon Jackson, the canvas signs hung outside of dorm windows go against a 1991 decision by the NCAA regarding a similar situation with a recruit on campus. Once Duke compliance personnel became aware of the signs, NCAA law mandated they ask students to remove them. The Duke athletic office also urged fans to refrain from hanging more signs during the day by posting warning messages on Blue Devil fan message boards."

Devilsfan
11-15-2010, 07:52 PM
He could have made a phone call to roy's former twin bigs who are back home in California. That should be enough insight for him to make his decission, imo.

BD80
11-15-2010, 08:05 PM
If I remember correctly, given that Duke students were instructed to take down Kyrie Irving banners on campus when he made his official visit, is what Indiana people did "legal" in regards to NCAA regulations?

Signing Zeller took impressive group effort at IU
Bob Kravitz, Indianapolis Star
BLOOMINGTON, Ind.—So now the truth can be told: Cody Zeller will be going to Indiana University because of ... with a huge boost from the fraternities and sororities, whose houses were festooned with "We Want Cody'' banners.
"He loved the signs,'' Barnett said ...

Poor journalism, no NCAA infraction.

The signs actually said "We Want CODEINE" which is used in some of the more popular cocktails on IU's campus - which renders the students comatose until midnight the following night when they "wake up" for fresh square donuts.

ajgoodfella7
11-15-2010, 08:08 PM
Well honestly if it helped keep Cody from attending UNC, then I don't have a problem with it. Of course, if the roles were reversed, I would scream bloody murder.

-jk
11-15-2010, 08:46 PM
It probably was, indeed, a violation of the NCAA's rules. Let's let the NCAA address the specifics.

Meanwhile, I'll (once again) take the opportunity to refer anyone interested in what's allowed by the NCAA's guidelines (and that should be pretty much all of us!) to the Compliance (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3217-FAQ-HPR-SnrubChat-Tips-Compliance-Devils-in-the-NBA-etc&p=205515#post205515) sticky.

It's a somewhat arbitrary world out there, but we have to pay attention to it. To take the high road requires each and every one of us to be especially careful.

thanks,

-jk

DukieBoy
11-15-2010, 09:16 PM
Being an IU student, let me enlighten on some things

We at IU interpreted the rule as, if the college doesn't sponsor it, we can make any signs we want. No one stopped any of us from making signs of any sort. In fact, when he visited during the IU-Michigan football game, the whole student section chanted "We Want Cody."

The place was rampant with support for Cody and I'm sure if we were violating rules, it would have been in our newspaper or we would have been told in some way. It wasn't a one time thing because Cody made several visits to IU (most unofficial).

That being said, this was a huge signing for us. I was sitting in a Sports Management class about to take an exam when a couple of students in the middle of the class starting cheering. The teacher asked what was going on and one of the girls screamed "WE GOT ZELLER!!" The class burst into cheers for a solid minute before we all calmed down and took the exam.

This symbolized more than just a player for IU. When Knight was coach at IU, he would always get the best players out of Indiana without much competition. We lost that with the Sampson scandal. Winning Zeller was more than winning a player: it's a symbol we're getting back to the level of Knight where we can get those great Indiana players.

Newton_14
11-15-2010, 09:21 PM
Being an IU student, let me enlighten on some things

We at IU interpreted the rule as, if the college doesn't sponsor it, we can make any signs we want. No one stopped any of us from making signs of any sort. In fact, when he visited during the IU-Michigan football game, the whole student section chanted "We Want Cody."

The place was rampant with support for Cody and I'm sure if we were violating rules, it would have been in our newspaper or we would have been told in some way. It wasn't a one time thing because Cody made several visits to IU (most unofficial).

That being said, this was a huge signing for us. I was sitting in a Sports Management class about to take an exam when a couple of students in the middle of the class starting cheering. The teacher asked what was going on and one of the girls screamed "WE GOT ZELLER!!" The class burst into cheers for a solid minute before we all calmed down and took the exam.

This symbolized more than just a player for IU. When Knight was coach at IU, he would always get the best players out of Indiana without much competition. We lost that with the Sampson scandal. Winning Zeller was more than winning a player: it's a symbol we're getting back to the level of Knight where we can get those great Indiana players.

And the best part of all is that UNC DID NOT GET HIM!!! I am happy as heck for IU as College Basketball does not feel right to me when they are not competitive. So I say congrats! Make all the signs you want to make if that is what is takes to steal him away from the boys down the road!

CEF1959
11-15-2010, 09:24 PM
This symbolized more than just a player for IU. When Knight was coach at IU, he would always get the best players out of Indiana without much competition. We lost that with the Sampson scandal. Winning Zeller was more than winning a player: it's a symbol we're getting back to the level of Knight where we can get those great Indiana players.

It's good for college basketball for IU to be good. Congrats, and thanks for taking him away from Roy.

loran16
11-15-2010, 09:25 PM
Being an IU student, let me enlighten on some things

We at IU interpreted the rule as, if the college doesn't sponsor it, we can make any signs we want. No one stopped any of us from making signs of any sort. In fact, when he visited during the IU-Michigan football game, the whole student section chanted "We Want Cody."

No one's denying it was huge for you. And putting the UNC thing aside. But the interpretation of the rule I heard was that the college was required to act to remove the signs and ask the students to stop if they were put on notice. And it's hard to believe they didn't know of this.

Like it or not, students, alums, etc. count as representatives of the University. It's a silly rule, but i'm pretty sure this was a minor violation.

ajgoodfella7
11-15-2010, 09:38 PM
No one's denying it was huge for you. And putting the UNC thing aside. But the interpretation of the rule I heard was that the college was required to act to remove the signs and ask the students to stop if they were put on notice. And it's hard to believe they didn't know of this.

Like it or not, students, alums, etc. count as representatives of the University. It's a silly rule, but i'm pretty sure this was a minor violation.

I don't see how the NCAA can really enforce this rule. The University could always say they didn't participate in putting the signs up and encouraged fans not to put them up. I don't see how the NCAA could prove otherwise. Technically it is a minor violation. But I'm sure it has happened at just about every University, and I don't recall having heard of any University receiving any kind of sanction because of their students doing this. I'm guessing it will continue to happen until a University is called out on it.

loran16
11-15-2010, 09:49 PM
I don't see how the NCAA can really enforce this rule. The University could always say they didn't participate in putting the signs up and encouraged fans not to put them up. I don't see how the NCAA could prove otherwise. Technically it is a minor violation. But I'm sure it has happened at just about every University, and I don't recall having heard of any University receiving any kind of sanction because of their students doing this. I'm guessing it will continue to happen until a University is called out on it.

The rule is enforced via a notice system....the school is supposed to have the signs removed upon finding out that they were out there. So basically it depends upon how long the signs were hanging out there and for how long.

ajgoodfella7
11-15-2010, 09:53 PM
The rule is enforced via a notice system....the school is supposed to have the signs removed upon finding out that they were out there. So basically it depends upon how long the signs were hanging out there and for how long.

I just think the NCAA would have a real problem making a sanction based on this rule for the simple fact that like some of the previous posts stated, their is no way Indiana University can police the sign hanging habits of all 30,000 or so students at the same time.

Deslok
11-15-2010, 10:23 PM
To be technical, from what I've seen of the rule, the school is required to ask the students to take the signs down stop the cheers. But, nowhere in the rules does it say the signs/cheers etc must stop or be taken down. So, so long as the school is making the effort to stop them, it matters not if students make a 60 foot banner begging the recruit to come. So, wink wink, nudge nudge, don't tell the recruit to come here, know what I mean?

And really, the enforcement of something like this can't be much, so unless a school was out and out organizing things like this, I don't see there being any issues.

ajgoodfella7
11-15-2010, 10:28 PM
To be technical, from what I've seen of the rule, the school is required to ask the students to take the signs down stop the cheers. But, nowhere in the rules does it say the signs/cheers etc must stop or be taken down. So, so long as the school is making the effort to stop them, it matters not if students make a 60 foot banner begging the recruit to come. So, wink wink, nudge nudge, don't tell the recruit to come here, know what I mean?

And really, the enforcement of something like this can't be much, so unless a school was out and out organizing things like this, I don't see there being any issues.

Exactly. This is a rule that the NCAA just has to hope each school abides by, because in reality, they have no way of incriminating a school based on the things you just mentioned. A school will never say that they willingly encouraged students to put the signs up. They will always say they did everything in their power to make the student body complaint with the rule. And that is basically what the rule requires.

SCMatt33
11-15-2010, 10:29 PM
Even if the NCAA did decide that the university had adequate knowledge and did not make the proper effort to have the signs removed, it would likely end up like Iowa with Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore, where its officially a violation, but there is no penalty.

loran16
11-15-2010, 10:34 PM
Even if the NCAA did decide that the university had adequate knowledge and did not make the proper effort to have the signs removed, it would likely end up like Iowa with Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore, where its officially a violation, but there is no penalty.

Correct. But I'm pretty sure it was a minor violation. Not that it means much.

MulletMan
11-15-2010, 10:56 PM
When Knight was coach at IU...

I think that's Bobby Knight, Mr. Knight or Coach Knight to you.

;)

ajgoodfella7
11-15-2010, 10:59 PM
I think that's Bobby Knight, Mr. Knight or Coach Knight to you.

;)

I prefer "General".

WiJoe
11-15-2010, 11:04 PM
Given the infractions of the previous regime, it's time for the death penalty.

:cool:

rasputin
11-16-2010, 10:27 AM
Exactly. This is a rule that the NCAA just has to hope each school abides by, because in reality, they have no way of incriminating a school based on the things you just mentioned. A school will never say that they willingly encouraged students to put the signs up. They will always say they did everything in their power to make the student body complaint with the rule. And that is basically what the rule requires.

Of course, if it were Maryland, they couldn't do anything about it--free speech and all . . .