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View Full Version : How much zone D will Duke see this year?



Dr. Rosenrosen
11-15-2010, 05:16 PM
Watching the game last night, I started wondering how often we might see a zone D of some sort year. If teams are worried that we can break down their man defense too easily with Kyrie, Nolan and others, will they attempt to slow us down with a zone? I know everyone is touting our zone-killing snipers, but it's an interesting question to me. Maybe some teams are simply going to throw some kooky zones at us (like Cal Poly did) and hope for a bad shooting night.

My guess, we're likely to see a number of attempts at whacky 1-3-1's, matchup zones, "amoeba" zones and god knows what else. Wonder if K has the team practicing against these types of situations.

loran16
11-15-2010, 05:56 PM
Watching the game last night, I started wondering how often we might see a zone D of some sort year. If teams are worried that we can break down their man defense too easily with Kyrie, Nolan and others, will they attempt to slow us down with a zone? I know everyone is touting our zone-killing snipers, but it's an interesting question to me. Maybe some teams are simply going to throw some kooky zones at us (like Cal Poly did) and hope for a bad shooting night.

My guess, we're likely to see a number of attempts at whacky 1-3-1's, matchup zones, "amoeba" zones and god knows what else. Wonder if K has the team practicing against these types of situations.

I doubt that we'll see more zone than usual, really. Most teams either use a zone or a man most or nearly all of the time (lets say 75-85% of the time), and know a zone or man defense that they can switch to every now and then to try and throw teams off (like Duke's orange zone). But the teams are by nature not really as comfortable with the secondary defense, and unless it's working perfectly, pretty much always switch back. And even if it is working perfectly, they often switch black because they don't wish to tempt fate.

It's rare for there to be a team that's just as comfortable in a zone as they would be in a man (WVU last year might've counted...they split time between the 1-3-1 and a man D). SO i don't think we'll face an extra amount of zone. Rather, we're likely to see the main D of whatever teams we are facing...which may be zone or it may be man. But they won't adjust to a different defense just to face Duke.

SCMatt33
11-15-2010, 06:17 PM
I totally agree with Loran's analysis of the situation, but even if teams did magically know every defense enough to play them for an entire game, I still wouldn't think that teams would zone Duke. Duke is good enough that it has two ridiculous shooters (Curry and Dawkins) coming off the bench, not to mention Singler, Smith, and Irving starting and two big guys (Mason and Ryan) who can shoot the occasional three when open.

Throw that in with the fact that Duke is always one of the best teams in the country at spacing the floor and passing the ball with everyone on the floor (Mason looked pretty good passing last night in the half court and outlet scenarios) and Kyrie's ability to split defenders, and you have a pretty bad recipe for a zone defense.

In a man situation, Duke will only have two guys on the floor who can regularly beat their defender off the dribble (3 if Kyle is defended by someone slow). The caveat is that if Duke puts Kyle at the 4 spot, then they likely have four guys who can beat their man off of the dribble.

At the end of the day, I think the best option for teams is to try and force Duke's big guys to put up points, but there are very few teams that have the perimeter athletes to force Duke to do that for 40 minutes given our depth at guard.

vabombers
11-15-2010, 06:22 PM
I agree completely. I believe the only exception to that would be if Duke shows a deficiency in handling one or the other. Even then, however, teams aren't going to completely change their philosophy because most often good coaches run the defenses they believe their personnel is best equipped to be successful with.

CEF1959
11-15-2010, 06:24 PM
I doubt that we'll see more zone than usual, really. Most teams either use a zone or a man most or nearly all of the time (lets say 75-85% of the time), and know a zone or man defense that they can switch to every now and then to try and throw teams off (like Duke's orange zone). But the teams are by nature not really as comfortable with the secondary defense, and unless it's working perfectly, pretty much always switch back. And even if it is working perfectly, they often switch black because they don't wish to tempt fate.

It's rare for there to be a team that's just as comfortable in a zone as they would be in a man (WVU last year might've counted...they split time between the 1-3-1 and a man D). SO i don't think we'll face an extra amount of zone. Rather, we're likely to see the main D of whatever teams we are facing...which may be zone or it may be man. But they won't adjust to a different defense just to face Duke.

I agree with this. We may see a higher percentage of zone played against us than opponents might employ against other teams, but it's pretty risky to try a whole new scheme if you don't play it a lot. The 1-3-1 is particularly tricky, because it's not just a defensive deployment, it's a completely different philosophy in terms of what you are trying to do and what personnel you need to do it.

OZZIE4DUKE
11-15-2010, 07:06 PM
Defend us with a zone? Please! Yes! Bring it on! Curryhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_drool.gif, Dawkinshttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_drool.gif, Smithhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_drool.gif and Singlerhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_drool.gif are drooling at the thought!

chrishoke
11-15-2010, 08:49 PM
I think that an active match up zone is the best way to defend us this year. Cal Poly didn't do a bad job.

dukemsu
11-15-2010, 10:00 PM
I really don't think anyone has the personnel to zone the Devils this year. You'd have to have a huge, quick team of guys 6'4" to 6'10" who can all run, help, and recover or Duke would turn the game into a three point shooting competition, with one of the dribble penetrators getting to the key, drawing three people, and having Seth, Kyle, Kyrie, Dawk, or Nolan basically left with an easy shot.

I've heard interviews with Izzo, who has said that he has to play some zone this year, and when pressed on the issue said that he has no idea how he's going to defend Duke. I seriously doubt you'll see the Spartans in a zone against the Devils. They'll play man and take their chances. I would expect most other teams to do the same.

dukemsu

devildeac
11-15-2010, 10:44 PM
Defend us with a zone? Please! Yes! Bring it on! Curryhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_drool.gif, Dawkinshttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_drool.gif, Smithhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_drool.gif and Singlerhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_drool.gif are drooling at the thought!

After seeing Irving's shot last night, I'd let him take a few 3s against a zone, too.

dukeballboy88
11-15-2010, 11:42 PM
The active match up zone is about the only way you will be able to beat Duke. If I coached against Duke, I would run a wide foul line extended zone and give up the middle if the Plumlee boyz are in and make them beat me.
I would do my best to push the shooters out as far as I could and make them take deeper 3's than most nights and pray that they are cold.
I would pretty much give up the middle and force Duke to score from the paint and tell all 5 to hit the boards hard. Even if you do this perfectly I still think yoou will lose by 20 but its better than 37!

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-04-2010, 04:11 PM
bump

I keep thinking about this and here we go again. Today it's the triangle and 2. Yes, we're missing some open shots but haven't responded well to yet another obscure defense.

jv001
12-04-2010, 05:43 PM
bump

I keep thinking about this and here we go again. Today it's the triangle and 2. Yes, we're missing some open shots but haven't responded well to yet another obscure defense.

we would get lot's of offensive rebounds when we face a zone, but we didn't seem to do it today. However we did miss several open 3s that we normally hit. Go Duke!